Start With A Win - Let’s Not Do Normal Anymore with Patty McCord, Former Netflix Chief Talent Officer

Episode Date: October 27, 2021

This episode of Start With A Win features former Netflix Chief Talent Officer Patty McCord. During her 14 years with Netflix, Patty was the co-creator of the Netflix Culture Deck. Since it was first published online, the Culture Deck has been viewed more than 15 million times. She is the author of the best-selling book, Powerful: Building a Culture of Freedom and Responsibility, published in 2018 and translated into 12 languages. Currently, Patty is a consultant and executive coach for CEOs and their teams to help in defining leadership and company culture. She also speaks to groups and teams around the world.During their conversation, Adam and Patty dive into all of the change that has come about in the workplace since the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic. Within 48 hours, leaders went from believing that remote work could never work for them to being fully remote companies. And it worked.Patty believes the pandemic has also transformed the way leaders should view work, enabling them to pay closer attention to final results and the work that’s being done rather than solely on effort and productivity. It’s shown them that their employees can do the stuff that needs to get done without having to be watched, and it’s instilled a greater sense of accountability into their teams.Adam and Patty also talk about the importance of note forgetting the lessons we’ve learned in this season. As the world begins to return to a sense of normalcy, Patty warns that we will lose it all unless we pay attention and ask ourselves the questions: What have we learned here, and what is working?Episode Links:https://pattymccord.comhttps://twitter.com/pattymccord1https://www.amazon.com/Powerful-Leaders-Culture-Freedom-Responsibility/dp/1939714095Order your copy of Start With A Win: Tools and Lessons to Create Personal and Business Success:https://www.startwithawin.com/bookConnect with Adam:https://www.startwithawin.com/https://www.facebook.com/REMAXAdamContoshttps://twitter.com/REMAXAdamContoshttps://www.instagram.com/REMAXadamcontos/ Leave us a voicemail:888-581-4430

Welcome to Start With A Win, where we give you the tools and lessons you need to create business and personal success. Are you ready? Let's do this. Coming to you from Denver, Colorado, home of Remax World Headquarters, it's Adam Contos, CEO of Remax with Start With a Win. Producer Mark, we had some good dancing going on there, buddy. I should have done the book dance. You should have done the book dance. Let's start with a win book. We'll do the book dance on another show here. That's right, and I'm excited for our guest.

Yeah, me too. I'll tell you what. I have followed our friend here, Patti McCord, for several years. I've seen her speak on big stages all over the place. And she has such an amazing personality and amazing story, which really has led her. That's why she was the chief talent officer at Netflix for 14 years. She's also the co-creator of the Netflix culture deck, which so many of us in business have utilized. And in fact, when it was first, since it was first published online, the culture deck has been viewed like 15 million times or more. So Patty's the author of the bestselling book, Powerful, Building a Culture of Freedom and Responsibility, which was published in 2018

and translated into a dozen languages. So currently Patty's a consultant, executive coach for CEOs and their teams, and helps them define leadership and company culture, two incredibly important things in an organization. Because if you don't have those things, you don't get people or productivity at all. So Patty, welcome to the show. It's great to see you and thanks for dancing with us. Oh, thank you. Thanks for having me. Dancing's always a good thing in the middle of the day. I love it. It just gets you kind of, you know, frees you up, gets the blood flowing. Don't you miss it? I miss dancing.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when's the last time you went to a dance club and you're like out there on a dance floor with people? You're like, whoa. Sweating. Those were the days. Are people doing that anymore? Yeah.

We're doing it in our living rooms. I do it all the time. There you go. Yeah. I think it's still happening. Yeah. New dance club format. There you go. I like your attitude. So let's dig into this, Patty. You've seen, I mean, especially coming from, you're, you're an expert in human resources and talent management and,

you know, people things, you know, to, to really put a bow on it. And we've seen a lot of change in the workplace since call it February, March of 2020 when COVID blew up. So just give me a flyover. How do you see these things? Obviously they've massively impacted so many company cultures. They've reinforced a lot also, but what changes have you seen that you liked and that you didn't like that have helped and hurt companies? You mentioned that you've seen me speak at big audiences. And whenever I do that all over the world, afterwards, people kind of come up behind and they either come for a book signer and they come up to talk to me and they say, oh, what you're saying makes so much sense. It's so logical. It just is a breath of fresh air.

You know, you're a guru, blah, blah, blah, blah. I wish I could be like you, but I can't because we're regulated. I can't because we have unions. I can't because we're not in tech. We can't because we're not in America. We can't because, you know, but we would, but we can't. Right. And, oh, we can't work from home. We can't work remotely. We can't do, you know, we can't have meetings that aren't, we can't do any of that stuff. In 48 hours, we did it. I love everybody did. Right. And so now, and I was going to give up. I mean, I was, I was like, I'm retired. This has been enough. It's been 10 years since I've been at Netflix. Everybody who needs to hear my message is heard it. But I have a new audience now where I could say, oh, really?

Yes, you can. And you always could. That muscle was always there. You just chose not to use it. So, you know, I'm spending a lot of time with people now going, I don't want anything less than going, you know, like the term the new normal is like, isn't that an oxymoron? Like it's new or it's not. So let's not do normal anymore that you haven't got to those things that seemed really important before the pandemic, don't ever get to them. They didn't matter anyway.

Right. So so you said in your introduction that I'm this guru, I'm this HR expert. I was just talking to somebody earlier. It's like, you know, you're so innovative and you've done so many things differently. And you know what the truth is? I didn't innovate anything. I didn't invent anything new. What I did that was innovative was I stopped doing stupid stuff that doesn't matter.

Bingo. Crazy idea. I know. It's like when everybody comes in and goes, we're going to reimagine the workplace. Well, why didn't you do that to begin with? Right? Exactly. How about if we imagine the workplace in a way that makes us healthy and happy?

And, you know, I'm in the Silicon Valley and my son's in tech and all of his friends. I do not know a person under 40 that's not interviewing somewhere. So there is this pent up need for change. You know, if we can't go back to the dance floor, damn it, then I'm going to have somebody new on my Zoom call. I love it's a really incredible opportunity for workers to have a say in the environment that they want to work in. And that's how they're going to choose. You know, you're you're really lucky in the business that you're in because you've already started to embrace new technology in the last decade or so. Right. So everybody gets that we can do a lot of our real estate stuff online.

But the role of the broker, the role of, you know, your agent is completely different in this new world. And I bet you find like when I talk to people, there's kind of a whole different kind of personality that's successful in this world. It's fascinating. Totally. Totally. You know, it's funny you say that. I remember I was on a showing with my wife. She's a real estate agent, a REMAX agent, no less. But we were showing a house on FaceTime before the pandemic. This was like two years before the pandemic probably. And I remember going through talking through this and it was, it was fun because it was like, we were narrating a ride at Disney or something. Yeah. Right. And now the bathroom will show you thrills you've never seen before. Exactly. It's yeah. It's like jungle cruise or something like that. But it's, I mean,

it was, it was hilarious because I look back on that when everybody's like, what? I have to do showings on FaceTime? I'm going, why weren't you doing those to begin with? And now it's commonplace. It's commonplace. I talked to a woman a couple of weeks ago who is the VP of sales at a Fortune 100 company, right? Big organization, lots and lots of salespeople and she said before and you know she came up through the ranks she's super you know well regarded paid

extraordinarily well blah blah blah so um she said right before the pandemic she had been working with the team putting together a competency matrix for what made a great, great salespeople in her organization. And they had things like commands the room, you know, closes the deal, aggressively pursues excellence, you know, it was to all these type A personalities, right? She's like, has charisma, makes a statement. And she said the pandemic happened. And all of a sudden her best performers based on their sales were the listeners. Right. Were the people who didn't call up and go, have I got the solution for you? They said, tell me what's going on.

Right. And she said, I would have never, ever in a million years predicted that. Ever, ever, ever. She's like, it's made me rethink everything. And that I've been overlooking in my own Salesforce skills that are right in front of me all this time. That's a great point. And let me flip that to kind of the HR angle also,

to employees or team members or something like that. Taking sales out of this, because it should be the same thing. It's a partnership and it's, it's a mutual caring here, but it's fascinating when the pandemic hit. I mean, we closed our doors March 13th, 2020, just remote 100% that day. And, and we were prepared for it. We had already given everybody laptops and all the rest of that stuff, prepared to be remote. But the questions had to be different because everybody was worried about cash flow and everything, obviously. But instead of calling people up going, hey,

what does your productivity look like today to talk to the employees? Because managers were never taught how to manage remotely. The question that we had to twist that to was just call everybody you work with and say, hey, Patty, it's Adam. I just want to see how you're doing. Is everything okay? You know, to be fair, most managers weren't taught how to manage in person. It's true. That is so true. It's not like they had to give away all those incredible skills that they've been taught all these years. Most people do it by the seat of their pants anyway, but I

totally hear you. You know, I have a friend whose team, uh, she works for Ted conferences and she had moved to Austin and her team was in New York and Manhattan. And there were mostly, um, young people who had moved there to be in New York City, right. And she was doing one of those, you know, every Friday morning, they get together have coffee. And so they were doing it over zoom. And she said, Hey, let's just talk to each other. How are you doing? And she said, one of her team members just started weeping. She's like, I'm so lonely. I can't, I have 300 square foot apartment in Manhattan that I honestly never saw the inside of because I live in Manhattan. Right.

I can't even go to the bodega. There's nobody playing music on the street corner. I'm completely lost because the lifestyle that I chose is literally gone overnight. And so that's one of the things you're right that I've been talking to people a lot about. It's like you have to have discipline as a leader around those chance encounters. Right? They're just you have to remember, you know, close your eyes and remember all those ways that you did that. And now have the discipline to follow up once a week and just say, how's it going?

Let me ask you this. I mean, you're 100% correct. Let me ask you this. Okay. Let's say that the, the pandemic disappears tomorrow. We know it's not going to happen,

but let's pretend it does. Okay. That's a nice thought. What about exactly? But that aside, what of those skills that we've just experienced do you think, I mean, we're going to have to have some discipline and keep those. Because we've been doing them for a short period of time, and there are some people that are like,

I can't wait to get back to the way it was before. I don't think we're going back to the way it was before. Yeah, well, they're going to lose out. Right. So that's a fantasy that doesn't exist. But that's okay. You can keep it for as long. It's like we're going back to the way it was. Yeah, well, they're going to lose out, right? So that's a fantasy that doesn't exist. But that's okay. You know, you can keep it for as long. It's like we're going to work like it was 1960.

I mean, I talk to people every day who still think they're going to, you know, join a firm and be there for life. And that hasn't been true for 50 years. But that, you know, go ahead and dream. I think that I know that people really love flexibility. And I think that what the pandemic has given to us is a really clear view into effective flexibility. So there's a couple of things.

One of them is we're paying a lot more attention to results than effort because we can't watch everybody doing everything all the time. We have to trust you when you say you're going to deliver on Friday that you do. And hey, by the way, guess what? Nine times out of ten, you do. You always did. We could have trusted you from the get-go. Who knew?

Here's the other thing. We're not your family. I have this great story. I'm talking to this CEO, and we're we're not your family you know i have this great story i'm talking to the ceo and we're having this really intense conversation about you know revenue and work cycles and what success looks like in the background his two-year-old comes in goes dad mom wants to know where the butt wipes are are you know that's your family okay we're now really seeing each other's family and our work colleagues are the team that we work on to win right the whole point of your podcast right that's

why we come together to work and work is something that doesn't happen in the family my i have a i have a granddaughter now. She's almost two. My son moved to a place where he could have an office upstairs so he wouldn't have to do all of his work in the backyard because, you know, rain was coming and he needed it. So he goes upstairs and he closes the door to the bottom of the stairs. My granddaughter throws her body against the door and weeps,

Come home, daddy. So I think we'll lose it all unless we pay attention. This is one of those things where we're going to slide back into normalcy if we don't stop and say, wait a minute, what have we learned here and what is working? And we can't decide it just as management. Right? Because if you if you don't reach into the organization and say, in the last year, what's been the best thing that's happened to you because of the way we work and what what really sucks for you for you. Because it's going to be really different for different kinds of people and we're going to learn that this notion that we've had for 50 years that consistency really matters it's

really it doesn't anymore right you want to be consistent about the way you operate and how you treat your customers and if you're honest and straightforward and if you have good judgment. That stuff all needs to be consistent. But the way we work doesn't. It just doesn't. And I'm as surprised as anybody, to be honest with you. I mean, I love human interaction. It's been lonesome for me.

I quit doing keynotes. Like you said, you saw me speak on stage. I did like three. And then I was like, I can't do this anymore. I cannot have a conversation with myself. Hi, Patty, I'd like to talk to you about new ways to work. Just goofy, right? And how much we have to realize that this human interaction, even that we're having right now, is really the crux to how we work. And then there's this other part that's called just doing the stuff that needs to get done. Yep. And you don't need to be watched while you're doing that.

You just need to do it. That's true. I mean, yeah, have this reflection of, I mean, you've got to be accountable to yourself before you're going to be accountable to other people. But it's funny when you talk about the keynotes, and you and I are on video right now for those that are listening to this podcast. It's weird when you take and look at, and I've done some of those for other organizations on zoom. And for anybody who, you know, all the listeners out there, if there's somebody giving a keynote to your organization and they're on zoom,

stay on video, please. Just on behalf of them. Cause you start, you know, they introduced the speaker and then everybody goes click and turns off their video. I did one for this group in Sweden.

And I mean, it, and i mean it they sent me they sent me a recording studio it took three hours to set this thing up i mean i had to like call my kids and go can you help me lug this shit into my office because it's really heavy so i get all ready to do it we have two hours of setup before the thing blah blah they introduce me it's this really good looking man and woman on either side of a 50 inch flat screen TV. And there's my face. And I click on to start. And what I see is an empty room. Oh my gosh. Like empty chairs. It freaked me out. It's like, I'm talking to empty chairs. So yeah, you're right. Now I only, now I insist on doing this because at least I get to have a conversation with you.

There you go. Well, I mean, people need people for energy. It's human nature. We need to see somebody. I agree with that. But I also, you know, what I've learned, most of my career has been working in tech and working with introverts and engineers, right? And different people need different things at different times, right? A lot of them work best when it's quiet and they're alone and there's no disruption.

Some people work best with music in the background and not the sound of other people. Some people have to be able to pop up and go, did you hear that? Did you see that? Right. So I think one of the things that we should learn from this is, again, to be able to accommodate different ways of working and pay attention to what's getting done, not even productivity. I mean, accomplishments and deliverables and learning the most important thing. I just said it earlier, but I want to say it again, is that we can trust each other. That's probably the most important word in society right now. Don't you think?

Yeah. Yeah. Because it's, there's so many divisions between us. And at least at work, we should be able to trust that when you say you're going to, you do. Yeah. Well, totally. That's important. That's really important. And most people do. I mean, the thing is, it's always been true. We just have, you know, we had this whole, like, era of, we had this era of working where we had to watch out for our employees because, you know, they're really kind of evil and they might sue us.

Back in those days, I used to tell HR people, stand at the door at the beginning of the day in your business. And every person that walks by you go going to sue us, going to sue us, going to sue us, going to sue us. And they're not right. Then we went to a phase where the only way that we're going to be productive is that everybody is gloriously happy and we have to make them happy the way they were when they were 24 so i mean i'm not kidding you there were years that i literally did not go into an office that didn't have a bartender on staff right like oh you know hang on about 15 minutes because we make a mean mojito at three o'clock. Who works?

So, I mean, you know, at the beginning of the pandemic, I thought, ooh, how are all those tech workers in San Francisco going to be able to get breakfast without, you know, different options on cereal in the morning? Oh, yeah. What if you had to make your own coffee? And I mean, you know, there's a treadmill and a bicycle and a Pac-Man machine and some skateboards running around and you're, I mean, we have, we have some tech companies too. Yeah. So, so isn't that interesting? You know, I mean, I'm, I suppose there are some of us who really want to get back to that part because it was pretty nice having people wait on you hand and foot. But we still got stuff done and we still move forward. And, you know, so it's about figuring out what we've learned and what to celebrate. And more importantly, figuring out what we don't do anymore

and just not doing it again. We just don't have to. Yeah, you're right. And I think it's important. You know, we talk about the bartender, the, you know, the Pac-Man machine, whatever it might be, the video games or the beanbag chairs everywhere, whatever we might have in the office to give us a fun environment. But that's, I think that's one of the biggest things we as leaders need to focus on is how do we make our people enjoy what they're doing? You can't make people enjoy it. How do we give them the opportunity to be happy? I know.

I know. Honestly, I'll tell you my answer from my 35 years of observation. When that era was happening, I got invited to meet with a lot of people who had titles like chief happiness officer. I kid you not, right? And I would come in and say, now, what is it that you do? Well, I make employees glorious. I'm like, you know, but when you come to work, like, do you spend your day ordering T-shirts or, you know, tasting different kinds of flavored water? I mean, I really don't understand. And what I would say to them is I want to give you an assignment.

I want you to talk to five people in the company who are incredibly successful. They don't have to be by title, but, you know, everybody knows who's great, right? Who everybody looks up to, who's somebody that really matters. They're legends in the company. And sit down with them and say, tell me about the time that you did something that mattered. The day you went home and said, I'm really great. I did something that affects the company in a positive way. Every single story will be about something hard. Right? And I believe to my

core, that what really motivates people is at the end of the day, when you say, we did it. Right? We did it right that that deep inner satisfaction only happens at work. Yeah. Self-actualization. That sense of doing stuff with other people on behalf of a customer or somebody else. I mean, it's a really important thing to do. And so, and it makes you happy, but in a different way than macadamia nuts, which also make people happy. There you go. Yeah. Patty, this has been just a fantastic, just kind of, I mean, conversation more than anything. And it's interesting because we've uncovered a lot of really deep down interpersonal perspective

on leading and helping our employees be fulfilled and enjoy what they're doing. So thank you so much for sharing all that. Patty, I do have a question I ask every one of our amazing guests on the show. And that is, how do you start your day with a win? I have a koi pond. There's a bunch of fish that swim around out there. And I also have a dog, my cute little adorable dog wakes me up in the morning and reminds me that we've got to feed the

fish. Rain or shine, it's critically important that you get up and get ready to go feed the fish. So she takes me outside, she jumps up into the fish food container, she runs over to the fish, she runs back, she looks at the fish and looks at me like they might die, mom. And we sit outside and we feed the fish and talk to the fish. And I look around to see if it's going to be a sunny day or a cloudy day or that, it's just this little moment of contemplation for me to be, to be outside with my non-human friends. Kind of get the day going. Yeah. Feeding the fish.

That's it. I love that. Feed the fish, everybody. That's right. Patty McCord, former chief talent officer at Netflix, author of Powerful, and just a great human being. Thank you for being on Start With A Win, and thanks for sharing conversation with us today. Thank you. Thanks for having me. And thank you for listening to Start With A Win.

If you'd like to ask Adam a question or tell us your Start With A Win story, give us a call. Leave us a message at 888-581-4430. So go to startwithawin.com. And, you know, until next time, start us a message at 888-581-4430. So go to startwithawin.com and, you know, until next time, start with a win.