Start With A Win - Navigating Real Estate's Future with NextHome's CEO James Dwiggins

Starting point is 00:00:00 The industry did a really horrific job of leading itself through this. Shine your face in public and leave some confidence with everybody and tell them where they're going. What are you good at and what are you not good at? I argue all the time that it's actually one of the least important positions in the company. James, give us the two-minute flyover of what's going on in real estate space and how are we dealing with this change? Welcome to Start With A Win, where we unpack franchising, leadership, and business growth. Let's go. And coming to you from Start With A Win headquarters at Area 15 Ventures, it's Adam Kantos with Start With A Win. Have you ever

Starting point is 00:00:36 wondered what it's like to lead a real estate revolution? Well, today on Start With A Win, we're joined by James Dwiggins, the CEO of Next Home. He's a true trailblazer in the real estate franchise business. James has not only inherited a rich family legacy in the industry, I think he's like third generation, but has also co-founded companies that earned industry accolades, including the Inman Innovator Award. Get ready to be inspired by James' insights into leadership, real estate, and the journey of building three thriving companies. James, welcome to Start With A Win. You too. Thanks for having me. Hey, so for the listeners, James and I have known each other for quite some time in multiple

Starting point is 00:01:16 capacities that fit right into you audience, and that is leadership. James is the CEO of a large real estate company that, and has run many different companies, as I kind of mentioned in the intro. Franchising, I actually ran into James originally at the International Franchise Association at an event. And then also real estate. So, you know, obviously running a real estate company company and he and I have both, and he still is the CEO of a real estate company. I was the CEO of, of Remax. So, you know, we, we talk a fair amount and our good friends. So James, why don't you give the audience a little bit of a flyover of your background and how did you get to where you're at? I know you're what, third generation real estate? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I can't get out. I've been trying for a long time to get out of the industry. Um, uh, again, thanks for, for having me on. It's good to see you. And, uh,

Starting point is 00:02:11 I'll never forget that, that, uh, meeting at IFA where I got to meet you and Dave for the first time. Um, yeah, so I've been, uh, in the business for, well, I'm 43, so 43 years. My grandfather started his company in 1967. Wow. He had an independent on the central coast of California back in the 60s and 70s. He actually, for those of you who've been in the industry long enough, he grew it to three locations and 123 agents in the 70s, which is a massive company in that time frame. And then he affiliated with ERA and was an ERA franchise. And this tells you how old I am and how long I've been in the business when it stood for Electronic Realty Associates and the Fax Machine, which is literally, and people may not even know that, that's what the brand meant.

Starting point is 00:03:00 And was an ERA franchise for a long time. So the irony of it is, we'll talk about franchising today, but my family had been in real estate and in franchising, at least as a franchisee, for a long time. His wife was a real estate agent. My mother was a real estate agent. My father was a real estate broker. I just cannot get out.

Starting point is 00:03:21 So I've been in this a long time. I remember the days of the MLS book. I remember the days when the MLS was a, was a dial-up service, uh, through a program called Boris, man, I am dating myself. I feel old right now. And a dot matrix printer. Yep. Dot matrix printer. And I can go far back. Remember when my parents would go get the multiple, the book every month with all the new listings that they would know it was in town. And so I've seen this business grow up. It's funny you say that because I actually, my friend's mom was a real estate agent in

Starting point is 00:03:56 like the 80s. And I remember we would have that book and we'd have to go through and on three by five note cards, we'd highlight the listings she was going to show and then write them down on note cards and put them in order so she could show them in that order. And it was, I remember by the way, I'm going to go, I've never actually said this before. I just realized, I remember, uh, dropping flyers off and, and basically equivalent of door knocking from my mother, probably violating every child labor law in the state of California. But when I was really young, I'd walk the neighborhood and put little

Starting point is 00:04:30 things on the doors and new listing in the neighborhood. And I mean, that's just what you did. Like you, you hustled, you know, that's it. I mean, face-to-face sales and, and dropping little, you know, indications that you're working in this space or something like that. It's so cool. So, I mean, obviously a lot of evolution in, uh, you know, in the real estate space, why did you get into franchising? I mean, you, you know, you started next home and, and became a franchise company. Yeah. You know, why, why franchising? Why do you, what do you see in the power of that? It's a funny, it's a funny story because I worked for my parents' company,

Starting point is 00:05:05 their, their real estate brokerage. Then I got into prop tech called prop tech now, but I started a software company when I was 19, sold it when I was 21, started another company when I was 21 called Vrio with some partners, my current, my current partner now that's in Next Home. And then two other, two other people I used to work with who were business partners brian beware and mark davison a thousand watt were my partners in that company we sold that later i was sitting on the couch not working because i was tired and then a client of ours named realty world up in northern california who we were doing a lot of tech for the ceo and i were good friends and he called me up he's like hey you're being you're being lazy. Get off the couch and come like, come here and do something. And I just moved to Northern California at that time. And so I went to work for realty world, which was a

Starting point is 00:05:52 franchise. It was a very successful franchise in Northern California. It had about 420 offices, um, in a very different type of business model. And so I started there as the head of technology, eventually became the vice president. And then eventually my current business partner and i bought it um in 2014 and then we started next to him so we kind of we were in the actually the best analogy is we were kind of tinkering with business models in a franchise brand that nobody really paid much attention to and so we were playing around with it going man this franchise thing we could really do some new stuff with it. It's very traditional, kind of operates the same, you know, obviously, Remax was an innovator in changing some of the franchise models. But we we then started next home in 2014, launched it in 2015 as a new national brand, because real to what was only Northern California is a long story. But

Starting point is 00:06:41 we basically were then running two franchise brands. So I got into it by working for one and I fell in love with it because this industry is just, everyone's very entrepreneurial in this business. Everyone wants to operate their own hours and do their own thing. But I've always found that real estate people are very good. I use the word that Keith always says, humanists. They're really good with people. They're good with the relationships. They're really not great operators. Like they struggle with it.

Starting point is 00:07:13 And so the concept of like here, we're going to help you operate and then you go do what you do really well. We'll take care of the minutiae and the shit behind the scenes. And I just, I love that concept. And, and, and as you know, in franchising, the benefit of franchising beyond just the mechanisms of like, you know, how to, how to make the sandwich, it's this idea of your, you're being part of something bigger and you can't replicate that. If you're small, you just can't, you don't

Starting point is 00:07:45 have the network, you don't have the referrals, you don't have the idea sharing, you don't get to hear what's happening across the country, you don't get to learn from someone else's mistakes quite as much. So you just you get this benefit. And then brand recognition is a real thing. Like, it just is. So you know, you can go to any city in America, and you you know, you're in a new town, I always love this analogy. And you walk outside your hotel room, Adam, and you're, and you're like, just want a cup of coffee. Like I need my coffee. You see Starbucks and you see Joe's coffee shop. There's a line out of Joe's, but you go to Starbucks anyway. Why? Because you know, you're going to get a consistent overpriced burnt cup of coffee and you're okay with that. So like, but my, the point is like, you know what you're going to get and people love just comfort. They want it. They just, they want consistency. And so that's the beauty of it, man. Like it, it just, you can help people operate part of their business that they're not good at. And you get this national network and you just get these things that don't

Starting point is 00:08:46 come from not being part of something bigger. It's a, it's a great point because, and something everybody that's listening to this should think about is what are you good at and what are you not good at? And James is right. You're most of the people that listen to this are entrepreneurs or business leaders or something like that. You're good at the people part, but you suck at the system. So find a good system, right? Yeah, yeah, I think that comment is incredibly important what you're getting at. I think the most successful leaders are very good at identifying what they are good at,

Starting point is 00:09:20 and they're even better at identifying what they're not. And then you have to get comfortable knowing you suck at something and then finding really good talent to fill that and then get the hell out of the way. Like that's the, that is like in every aspect of running your own business, know your strengths, know your weaknesses, keep yourself in check, keep your ego in check and let talented people who are better at that than you drive and be and let them drive and i think that's

Starting point is 00:09:53 just in in in most sales industries the their ego gets in the way and they don't make the right choices and they end up failing because they're just not they're they're trying to do they're not good at, you know? Yeah. Everybody raise your hand and repeat after me. I am not good at everything. I mean, for crying out loud, listen to what James is saying here. You have to, you gotta, the, the biggest, the biggest thing I've, I've found, and it's

Starting point is 00:10:20 like, even in, in our, in our organization, um, it's like even in our organization. It's easy to wear the title of CEO and take credit for everything. It's easy because your title just makes everybody assume it's you. The hard part is being really good at making sure that the team that you work with are being recognized for the work that they do, because the CEO job is just a cog in a wheel. And it's honestly not even the most important. I argue all the time that it's actually one of the least important positions in the company. The job of a CEO is to empower their people, give them what they need, help them grow, learn from their mistakes, not be in a place of fear and drive the company forward as a team.

Starting point is 00:11:13 And I meet a lot of entrepreneurs who just have way too much pride and get in the way of that. And really finding talent that's smarter than you is like the best, they're, they're the best people. The best CEOs are the ones that, that are constantly bringing really intelligent people and surrounding themselves and learning every day. And, and then, and then focusing on their, on strengths. And you'll find you'll thrive. You just will. Franchising does that too. I want to unpack something you just said here. I mean,

Starting point is 00:11:50 so two key points that blend together. One, operating from a position of fear. So many people that claim to be leaders and they have the title of a leader, but they don't have the daily operations of a leader. Leading is something you do. It's not someone you are, folks. And a lot of that has to do with your vulnerability, your humility, your transparency, the clarity you provide the organization, things like that. But ultimately, that only works when you don't have an ego that's blocking that whole thing. And really what you want to see if somebody has an ego and they're operating from a position of fear, throw some change into their industry and see how they operate around that. Because a lot of times they just start lashing

Starting point is 00:12:36 out. Operating from fear, you get fight, flight, or freeze. One of those three. Or you get these people that are no longer leaders. They're hiders and they're hiding from everything, hoping that the dark clouds blow over. You know, we saw that quite a bit during COVID, uh, with a lot of so-called CEOs who just kind of disappeared and wouldn't, you know, wouldn't show up for their people and say, look, here's what we're going through. Yeah, it's bad, but we're going to, we're going to get there together because we're going to fight together. Yep. So tell me about change in business from a leader's perspective. What have you dealt with at Next Home? I mean, hey, I got one.

Starting point is 00:13:14 The real estate industry is going through a shit ton of change right now. Okay? With these lawsuits, these commissioned lawsuits. And you're being tapped as an expert in a lot of different aspects of this on webinars and speaking at events and things like that. Give us briefly a flyover real quick for, I mean, if somebody's been hiding under a rock and they haven't heard about this, maybe they want to. It affects everybody, 100% of society that buys or sells a house at some point or is in the real estate space. This is going to impact you. James, give us the two-minute flyover of what's going on in the real estate space and how are we dealing with this change? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:13:58 So there's a bunch of class action lawsuits that have been filed. I won't get into too many specifics, but essentially a bunch of lawyers got a bunch of sellers together to convince them that they were overpaying for their services. And the short version is there's 20 of them now. One of them went to trial in October and the industry lost. basically the the crux of this is that the sellers are overpaying by having to pay the buyer's agent's compensation i'm really summarizing here but that that's the gist of it right the the the the lawyers want to see a world where the buyer's agent is paid by the buyer and the seller's agent is paid by the seller there's a whole bunch of reasons why that is very difficult to make happen um but the the answer is the industry um has been fractured um because of the results of these cases uh a 1.78 billion dollar verdict plus treble damages so 5.3 billion ouch um which is. The numbers are stupid because the industry doesn't

Starting point is 00:15:06 have this kind of money. Like you can, the numbers don't make any sense. And I tell every, since these numbers came out and everyone's talking about them, like ignore the numbers, no one has that kind of cash and lawyers don't want to bankrupt every company period. So, um, what's what to answer your second part of the question is what has been sad to see, in my opinion, and these are the opinions of James, not everyone else, the industry did a really horrific job of leading itself through this. Everyone went to the corner and didn't want to talk about it. They're worried that they're going to be a target they were worried that they would say something that would hurt you know themselves in in you know in a defense case the national association of realtors had an absolutely horrific approach to this and i've been very critical of them i to be clear i'm a supporter of ner i want them to fix

Starting point is 00:16:00 their problems we need them but i'm also going to say that their PR strategy was horrific. And what happened was there's this massive void in a conversation. And for whatever reason, I've learned over the years that there's two types of mindset with things. There's scarcity mindset and abundancy mindset. And this is like, I just use this all the time. I'm a believer that when you have abundancy mindset, it just all works itself out. Like you put out into the world and you'll, you'll get equal back in return. So for two years, I've been listening to our good friend, Rob Hahn, as well as a lot of other people on these suits going, this is a real problem. And everyone's like, Oh God, you're a doomsdayer. And I'm like, no, no, no. Like I've been, I've been learning about this stuff. Like these are real issues, you know, not a big deal. It's going to be great. I'm like,

Starting point is 00:16:53 I don't know because like there's per se versus rule of reason. Like these are a lot of problems. And sure enough, we ended up losing punching the gut. Yeah. And this is, I think there's a comment here for everyone to hear. My lawyers, like everybody else's lawyers, said, don't talk about it. Don't say anything. Don't go public with it. Keep your mouth shut. Let it, you know, it's going to work itself out. And candidly, I don't like listening to lawyers. I genuinely find that lawyers are self-serving.

Starting point is 00:17:28 And I love my lawyer, to be clear. He's a very good friend. We're very tight. But his job is to advise me. It's my job to determine what I want to take out of that advice. And there's a problem here in our industry. Everyone is listening to their lawyers way too much. And so what happened is there's this massive void. All these, everybody has no idea what's going on. Agents are like not aware of it or the brokers are, but they're like, they don't know what to do. And here we are today, every single thing, literally every single thing that Rob and Ed and all of these other people I'm talking to, we've all been publicly stating what happened has happened in freaking order.

Starting point is 00:18:14 Right. And so because we've been vocal about it and talking about it and trying to help people through it and understand not to be scared and like this is the next step and this is where it's going to go. And, and we've, you know, somehow a lot of us have become authorities on it, which we really shouldn't be, but we are. Um, but the learning lesson I think in all of this is if you, if you operate from a place of fear, you, you're never going to end up in the right spot. I genuinely believe that if you are always playing defense, you're just, you're going to be, you're just never going to put your company in the right spot. So we've just been extraordinarily vocal about it. And I brought all of our franchisees out to Salt Lake city. We do a retreat every, at the end of every year. And we last year before the trial,

Starting point is 00:19:02 before the first one went to trial we said here's what's going to happen we brought a lawyer in the room who was knowledgeable about all this stuff laid it all out said it's going to sound scary and it's going to work itself out because everything's going to end in settlement which by the way adam how is everything ending so far and settlement Right. Um, so, but, but what, but what the, the key point I'll say is this, my franchisees, while you risk scaring people, like you have to walk a boundary because this stuff is complicated. Almost all of them have been appreciative of the fact that they're like, I would rather know and like deal with the scaredness of it versus I have no idea what I'm supposed to do or how I'm supposed to think. And our industry has done a shitty job of, of leading during this time.

Starting point is 00:19:54 Right. So it seems that in leaders, whether or not you're in the real estate space, you're going to have some sort of a, you know of a bad storm that rolls through. I mean, we all went through it in COVID. And again, I mean, if you weren't in front of your customers during COVID, they lost faith and confidence in you. And that's what's happening in the real estate space in a lot of different aspects is there's so much confusion and people are dodging the key questions. And nobody's really admitting, okay, yeah, you know, all right, whether or not we think we did something wrong, the jury said this.

Starting point is 00:20:30 We lost. Yeah, I mean, there's a big one in the L column, okay, folks? I mean, it's not even a tie for crying out loud. Nobody likes a tie to begin with. It's an L, and you got to own your Ls as a leader. And if you say, okay, yeah, we lost. Here's how we're going to deal with it. Here's our path forward. We have some clarity. Let's all join arms and work together to make this work. Then people are like, oh, okay.

Starting point is 00:20:55 And it's, gosh, there's a- And there's always a path forward. Yeah. And sometimes the path is maybe even better than the previous path you were on. You have to look up and look down the road a little bit and go, all right, well, where does, how do all these pieces play out? Right. And I don't personally, I'm a minority in this world still. I think I'll end up being, you know, part of the majority, but it's, I actually think a lot of the changes that are going to come will be better.

Starting point is 00:21:21 Do you think, I mean, as far as like evolution versus revolution, but I mean, ultimately better is better. Do you think, I mean, as far as like evolution versus revolution, but I mean, ultimately better is better. I mean, we have to have a path forward and I mean, the real estate industry is not going to come to a screeching halt because of these lawsuits. It's going to have to adapt. So what adaptation do you think people need to prepare for? Well, I mean, look, so what's the, there's a bunch of things that everybody complains about in real estate. We have too many agents. Okay. Well, guess what? There's going to be less. So there's the first part we've been complaining about for as long as I've been alive, that's about to happen. People that aren't good at their job in, in articulating their value. Sorry, you won't be here in the next 24 months. Um,

Starting point is 00:22:02 so problem solved there. Uh, you know, this, this idea of a lot of the things we have in the next 24 months. So problem solved there. You know, this, this idea of a lot of the things we have in the industry that I just don't agree with and don't make any logical sense. Dual agency, not a good idea. Fastest way to get sued. Represent both sides of the deal. By the way, there's a reason why lawyers can't represent both parties. Like there's just stuff that we do that doesn't make any sense, which are things that are going to come to a head. Right. I don't necessarily disagree with the fact that the way our current structure is, I'm going to really irritate some people, but the way our current structure is, if you are collecting compensation from the seller in advance of knowing the buyer and offering an amount to an agent that just got licensed yesterday and has a buyer. And you're going to pay that agent the same amount of money to represent that buyer as an agent has been in the business for 30 years. There's an issue there. Like there,

Starting point is 00:23:01 there should be candidly like newer agents probably shouldn't be charging as much as a top producer. And so, I think that there needs to be mechanisms for the seller to offer compensation. And there's a lot of reasons why I believe that. reason why this structure is this way, which the plaintiffs got so horribly wrong, is because the fastest way to end up in a lawsuit for the seller, have an unrepresented buyer. Watch what happens. Like in the most sophisticated, complicated transaction they're going to do maybe three times in their life with all of their life savings. Let's get them into a spot where they have to choose between representation or going it alone. Oh, that's a brilliant idea. So part of the reason why the rule is the way it is, is to make sure that there is somebody representing on the other side. Now, where do I think it goes and why I think it's an interesting change? As long as there's a mechanism, let's say that the rule and the MLS goes away, which I think will happen. So there's no offer of compensation in the MLS, but there's a seller concession field instead. So the seller can offer

Starting point is 00:24:09 whatever they want. It's not coming through the agent. It's the seller having the conversation with their agent, deciding what they want to do. And if there's a mechanism for the buyer to finance the compensation for representation, now we have a mechanism to allow good agents to charge what they're worth, agents that are newer to potentially charge whatever they're worth, the buyer and the agent negotiate on that value. It's our job to articulate that value. It's our job to convince the buyer to pay us. And then it becomes a negotiation. And it could be something like the buyer's agent or the buyer's going to finance. I'm making up a number here, but one and a half percent.

Starting point is 00:24:48 And the seller offers a percent concession to help with the close the deal. It's a negotiation. That's this outcome. I think long term will end up removing a lot of agents that aren't good at their job. Good riddance. Right. No offense, but like find another profession.

Starting point is 00:25:07 We need to get more professional and the good agents are going to get better. Like, and as long as the buyer has the ability to choose representation, which is the most important part of this conversation, then I'm not opposed to it. I'm just not. I think it is an evolution to answer your question, mixed with a little bit of revolution, but it is the industry evolving in a way where, candidly, we're not going to have any more of these investigations.

Starting point is 00:25:43 That's the interesting part is where this is going is going to end up being in a spot where the DOJ really doesn't intervene much anymore because you have separation. I represent the buyer. I represent the seller. It's very very clear who does what there'll be disclosures up front. It's clearly explaining what, what, what can and can't be done. And that's not bad. Okay. So James, I have a question then. So we, you know, we've talked about leadership. We've talked about change. We've talked about this looming probability, let's call it in the the real estate space. I don't find this to be, 20 years in real estate space here, running one of the largest real estate companies in the world. I mean, for crying out loud, I don't see a problem with a fair rendering of the transaction that way. And I think the professionals are actually going to like it because it gives them a clear path forward to talk to their customers about and say, yeah,

Starting point is 00:26:30 yeah. I mean, simply put, here's how the transaction is going to work. It's actually not that different from a commercial transaction, which has been going for quite some time. So I mean, the reality is- But Adam, another comment to think about is this. When I sit down with a buyer now, and I'm really optimistic about this just because of a bunch of stuff I'm working on. But if I sit down with a buyer now, the way the agent does it, which I think is stupid, they don't sit down and have a buyer consult. They don't sit down and do a buyer presentation. They don't explain any of this stuff because they're getting paid by the seller's agent. The compensation is already known that it's there. In this world, and this is my comment to this, in this new world, as long as those mechanisms are in place I'm talking about,

Starting point is 00:27:17 I get to sit down with the buyer and clearly articulate my value and dictate the compensation at whatever rate I want to charge instead of having to have a conversation. Well, the agent's only offering this. And so you need to make up the difference, which sounds like greedy in a way. So versus like, well, I just charge X. This is for my services. Here's the 190 things that I do. This is the amount of time it takes. Like to me, it just, I would rather be in control of that conversation from the start all the way to the finish versus like having to mix and match between what somebody else is doing. I mean, to put it bluntly, I don't want my compensation dictated by how good a seller's agent is at their job. Right. Totally agree.

Starting point is 00:27:55 So I have a question for you then. You know, this is an industry where people can be quick to blow their stack, you know, just fly off the handle. Believe it or not, we might have a few people that have very short views and it's always lit in the real estate space. And I mean, but how do we as leaders convince them one change is going to happen? Cause I mean, you know, the position of a leader to rewind this whole thing is to provide clarity and a path forward and trust that you need, you need to just take and take that next step. You need to stop resisting what is, I mean, the more people blow up on, and I've seen some crazy comments on some of these webinars and shit like that. You've been on them.

Starting point is 00:28:45 Just like Exhibit A in the lawsuits, by the way. Yeah. The stupid shit people say. Oh, my gosh. I know. Take your bleeping bleep and bleep and whatever. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:28:53 It's crazy stuff. But how do we turn these professionals into leaders in order to stand tall in the industry? And what should they be doing with our customers right now? I mean, I've seen a few standing tall yours, you being one, a few others in the industry is also standing tall and saying, folks, prepare for this, work on that, demonstrate your value, move forward. I mean, it sounds like a leadership class here. Yeah. Um, I don't, I'm not convinced that everybody can change. That sounds really pessimistic, but like, I just, I'm not convinced that everybody can change. That sounds really pessimistic, but like, I just, I'm not realistic. I don't know. Realistic, but like, I'm not convinced

Starting point is 00:29:32 that everybody can change. And candidly, my job isn't, I'm not here to change people. I'm here to influence them and think differently. They're going to have to walk their own path, but I will simply state that in absence of reasonable voices in the room, the loud ones will fill the air. And this is like literally the conversation I've had with any of our leadership. I'm like, you can't not respond. I know you like feel like you're above the comments, but the problem is, is if you don't respond or say something, then people are only going to hear that loud ranting noise in the room. I think it's important that at least how we've approached it, myself and many others, many on my team as well, like Keith Robinson's done a great job of this, is you just have to go

Starting point is 00:30:18 out and just share your message and resonate with people and influence the ones that you can. And, and, and honestly, a lot of these, a lot of people talking, their opinions aren't going to matter because there is a clear path here. And like, I'll make this statement. I know fairly clearly where this is going to end up because I'm involved in a lot of it. And they're either going to have to learn to do adapt to this change that's coming and lead their people with this change instead of fearing it. Look at it, embrace it, and go, okay, this is the reality of where we are. Or candidly, if they don't, their company won't be here because they're not going to lead their people in a fashion where they're helping them move in that direction. And those people will leave your organization and they will go somewhere else.

Starting point is 00:31:03 They will go to an organization where they're like, this leadership, is where I want to, this is where I'm real estate. I want to hang my license because I feel like this is the vision of the future. And again, the longer, the longer that there's a void in that conversation, you're allowing somebody else to fill it with theirs. So let me, let me summarize real quick here. This is, so I make sure I have this right. So first of all, obviously shit happens. I mean, it's a change happens, call it what it is. Everybody, you know, doesn't like it. Somebody moved your cheese, whatever you want to every day, Congress passes a bill. Someone doesn't like, can't do anything about it. So, yeah, I mean, it's, it's, and it's not going to, a good friend of mine once said they can't eat you. So just move forward. So far. I mean, yeah, exactly. Maybe we get there. I don't know. But, um, and embrace the fact that change happens and adapt to that change and lead through it, people, with a clear direction forward.

Starting point is 00:32:06 And if you want to stay in existence as a business leader and as a business itself. So every industry goes through this. Everybody goes through this. It just happens to be the real estate industry's turn. Complacency will kill you. Bam. Yeah. I literally, it's one of the things that I talk to myself about on a daily basis.

Starting point is 00:32:29 And it's funny because I'll bring another analogy. And you know this. Obviously, you've run a much larger company than mine. But it's as you grow in your career and you make more money, it's easier to become complacent. You have to intentionally keep the mindset of complacency will kill. Like it will genuinely never get comfortable. I genuinely believe it's a CEO's job to never be comfortable. I wish there was a world where that existed, maybe retirement. I don't know, not there yet, but it, in a way you have to always be in this uncomfortable spot so that you're always looking down the road and seeing where things are

Starting point is 00:33:14 going to come or what might hit you next or where, what, what's happening. Like as an example, I'll bet you most of the franchisors and you, you, you're very involved in IFA. Don't attend IFA stuff. Like I haven't seen most of them there. And yet there's, you and I both know the joint employer employee bill that's trying to go through and all this stuff is a huge problem. Yeah. And I talked to people and they're like, what? This is like, oh my God. Literally as big a threat to the, to, you know, fast food, QSRs, things like that, as these real estate lawsuits.

Starting point is 00:33:51 Yeah. I mean, if you want to pay, I mean, we saw it the other day, $18 for a Big Mac for crying out loud. I mean, the McDonald's CEO is taking flack because they are charging 18 bucks for a Big Mac meal. Welcome to 2024 people

Starting point is 00:34:06 with these changes that are going on. Yep. Yep. You're, you're right. I mean, it is, it is absolutely the reason why, and maybe this is a great time to state it. Like people are like, why are you so defensive of the national association of realtors? And I'm like, I'm not, if you actually read my posts,'m i'm critical where i need they need to where they need to hear what's going on right but i'm also not naive enough to think that we don't need them like if you're not as seth one of our one of our guests on my podcast said this great he's like if you're not if you're not in the kitchen you're on the menu like he's or how do you say basically the point was like if you're not at the table there it is if you're not in the kitchen you're on the menu like is or how do you say basically the point was like if you're not at the table there it is if you're not at the table you're on the menu and it

Starting point is 00:34:47 was just an interesting comment because it's literally how dc operates if you're not in the room having conversations then your industry will be on the menu and i just like i go that i have nothing against the american real estate association, whatever they're trying to start. It's fine. I just know that when you fracture what's here, you lose influence. You lose influence, your ability to, to, to tell senators and congressmen and congresswomen, this is what's going to happen.

Starting point is 00:35:22 If you pass this bill, we're going to arm 1.5 million people to oust you out of office. I'm saying that politely, but like that's the conversation. Right. So you influence them. And 1099 is a great example, Adam. Like what would happen if the real estate industry didn't have 1099 status that we so enjoy? It'd be so much smaller. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:35:44 Like massively different. Yes. Um, so like, it just, there's, there's so much, I get frustrated sometimes because like you're defending them and their leadership sucks and all the scandals. And I'm like, okay, yes, I agree with you. We don't need to burn the house down. Can we like remodel it? Can we give it a facelift?

Starting point is 00:36:05 Can we, can we, can we fix the foundation? And then like, so it's just very emotional. People are just very emotional instead of like looking at everything holistically and trying to figure out what to do. So yeah, it's, I mean, in a nutshell, and you look at the national association realtors, incredibly important lobbying organization. You're right. The membership side needs kind of a tune-up and a paint job. For sure. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:36:33 But the lobbying actually is doing great. I mean, the largest lobbying trade group in the world. State, local, and national, man. Right. Like, it's that part you may not everybody need to agree with the bills they pass but the reality is they're fairly centered and they do a pretty damn good job of only sponsoring bills that are pro housing consumer and private property rights like right i mean it's the same as uh you know the international franchise association does a ton of

Starting point is 00:37:02 lobbying and by the way they're the ones who are trying to keep the price of your big Mac down. So, you know, by not succumbing to some of the regulations that are going in, you know, Adam, just cause you're very involved with that. What's I find this so funny to me,

Starting point is 00:37:17 I'm going to make a comparison. It's going to irritate people. So any ours dues are $156. Yeah. What's the, if so tell everybody here, what's the IFA dues to be part of IFA? Like depending upon, it varies by the size of your company, but it's thousands. Yes.

Starting point is 00:37:34 Much, much like, you know, 50X, whatever. Mine was like $6,500 or something this year based upon the size of it or like 10 grand or something. Yeah. Take my money. Right. Like, take my money. Please, God, go do what you do to help influence these idiot politicians from not passing some of the stuff that they're proposing. Like, is the safest, cheapest possible advocacy you could think of to protect the industry.

Starting point is 00:38:06 And you know, what's interesting is how bipartisan these groups become. You know, you have to be, you have to be, because you're not working towards a political party. You're working towards humanity and what's best for the citizens of the United States of North America, whatever it might be. So, you's, it's fascinating how people need to separate the, you know, the club of, Hey, let's hang out and bitch about stuff and truly go do something education of lawmakers so that we're, we're building appropriate regulation and advancement in how we're regulating our industries. So, um, you know, it, we could, we could beat this up all day, but, but I'm with you. And I said the same thing on

Starting point is 00:38:50 your podcast when you had me on that, that, um, you know, we have a good part and we have a part that could use a little touch up for sure. A big touch up for that matter. And, and frankly, some, you know, some marketing advocacy, not just to, for the legislative aspect, but for the community aspect so that people have a better understanding of why they're there and truly the value they deliver. Yeah. NAR is in a really weird spot. Their leadership, I kind of think it looks like this. They're asking people in the box what we need to do. And I'm trying to like,

Starting point is 00:39:32 I want to just shake them and go, don't ask a single board member a question ever again. Right. Like none of them. And I mean that because I know some of the people that are there, but they're the ones carrying the flag.

Starting point is 00:39:44 Your problem isn't the ones carrying the flag. It's the other 95%, and I'm not exaggerating, of the industry that doesn't like what you're doing. And they're the ones that aren't in the room. Ask the 95% what they think needs to change. And it's like NAR's new ad campaign. And I'm not against trying to talk to the consumer, but I put on Facebook, like, what do you think of this? And do you think your customer knows the difference between a realtor and a real estate agent?

Starting point is 00:40:12 There was like 196 comments. I think one of them said yes, and like 195 said no. So why are we spending the money on that? Right. Come on. Let's put it towards something else like you don't if that we we beat that drum and and stop calling it the american dream like it's not people don't resonate with that maybe 20 years ago but like young people if you read the studies aren't going i want the

Starting point is 00:40:38 american dream they're wanting to travel they're trying to figure out how to get out of their mom's house like just like, God, you know, you've got this great thing going, but you've got the wrong group you're listening to. Take everybody that's in your boardroom and fire them. Go bring in a bunch of outside people to tell you what to do to fix it. Cause there's a lot of passionate people who want to help. Totally. I, you know, I know you and I would both should hire you. Oh, they should hire you, Adam. You should be the next. Actually, it's a great idea. You should go be CEO of NAR. I know you don't want the job, but like, no, I'm serious. I just thought of them. Like you should actually,

Starting point is 00:41:14 you would be amazing. You'd go in and clean things up. James, we're still recording. No shit. Sorry. All right. Hey, let's, let's wrap this up because we, you know, we've, and we're not bitching about stuff here. What we're doing is we're kind of talking reality of, hey, pull your head out of the dark space and shine your face in public and leave some confidence with everybody and tell them where they're going because change is happening. It's okay.

Starting point is 00:41:41 Change is great. I mean, I love change. I love the chessboard of business and life because it keeps you on your toes. And it fills me with energy to go out and make decisions. And I know you're the same way. And again, they can't eat you. Well, yet.

Starting point is 00:42:00 I used to say, as long as nobody's getting killed or nothing's burning down, then we're good. And that's the world I came from when I ran a SWAT team is, all right, is there a fire or gunfire? And if those things was going on, I love your story, by the way, your story is so awesome. Like just how, just your, just your story in general, from where everything you've done in your career to where you are is like, it's so inspiring. I love the fact you started our podcast with sold drugs. You literally started the podcast with that was the most hilarious line ever. Um, everybody knows Adam obviously, you know, was with SWAT and everything, but just, you've done like so many interesting things in your career. It's fascinating.

Starting point is 00:42:39 Like my life sounds boring compared to yours. Oh, yeah. No, it does. I'll crack open some of those crazy stories for you one of these days over a beer, my friend. Yeah. Anyhow. All right. To kind of take this whole thing home, again, Start With a Win is about leadership and personal development as well as being a good person. And we all start our day with a system or process to get us on the tracks and moving forward, be that faith or family or exercise or whatever it might be. James, I have a question I ask all of our great guests at the end of the podcast, and that's how do you start your day with a win? My daughter.

Starting point is 00:43:19 I love that. Every morning. So my routine is I get up somewhere between 5 and six a.m every day um i don't sleep as much as i should my doctor tells me all the time but uh and i start with her right um because she is just this bundle of energy she's a great mix of her brother and father it's exhausting um and but she but she looks at the world through innocent eyes. She has no idea what's happening in the world. She doesn't know about politics. She just, she just knows her mom and dad, you know, our dog Bailey, her nanny to help. Like she just, she has four people in

Starting point is 00:44:00 her life that she absolutely loves in the doors and to wake up every day and go get her out of her crib. She's almost three. Um, and, and just, she's excited this morning. She wanted to, she wanted to be like, will you play with the football? I'm like, it's six 30. Sure. Right. So, but you get that moment. And instead of, instead of dealing with drama, like in my email or my phone or whatever, I start my morning with drama, like in my email or my phone or whatever, I start my morning with my win is somebody who brings joy to my life and a smile. Then I jump into being fireman for the rest of the day. But at least it's a positive way to start the day.

Starting point is 00:44:36 And I end my day just to put a ribbon on that with my daughter again and spend time. We cook dinner together. And so I try to start and end with a positive because the middle of being a leader is tough. There's nothing easy about being a leader. It's there. It just isn't. It's you're always the final decision maker and there's some wins and there's some losses and a lot of in between. But if you start and end with a positive, then it makes it easier. So I love that. James Dwaygan's CEO, founder of next home real estate and a bunch of other companies for that matter, a key leader, an influencer in the real estate space, a great friend, and, uh, one hell of a nice guy.

Starting point is 00:45:19 Thanks for being, I'll start with a win, my friend. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

Start With A Win - Navigating Real Estate's Future with NextHome's CEO James Dwiggins

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