Start With A Win - Providing Equality through Fair Housing with Bryan Greene

Episode Date: November 18, 2020

Our guest on this episode of the Start With A Win podcast is Bryan Greene, Director of the Fair Housing Policy Committee at the National Association of Realtors (NAR). Bryan has spent his career helping individuals, landlords, and real estate professionals understand the civil rights laws associated with fair housing and advocating for equality and nondiscrimination. His goal is for landlords, lenders, and real estate professionals to judge people only by the standards they have put in place for legitimate business practices, not litmus tests that will confirm or strengthen their own biases. The Fair Housing Act protects everyone from discrimination and is enforced by the local, state, and federal levels of government, including the US Department of Justice and the Department of Housing and Urban Development.Bryan has seen the shifts in the housing market due to COVID-19, such as the transition to virtual platforms and higher demand driving prices up. He has also seen the intersection of this higher demand with the recent awakening to racial injustice and inequality in that many more Americans now recognize that populations of color have fared worse during this pandemic due, in part, to the overcrowding of their housing situations. The geographic fault lines are apparent now more than ever. Many now recognize that health and housing are interconnected, spurring on the needs for change and more equitable housing for all people in accordance with the Fair Housing Act and overall compassion for humanity. Connect with Bryan:https://www.nar.realtor/[e-mail] Connect with Adam:https://www.startwithawin.com/https://www.facebook.com/REMAXAdamContoshttps://twitter.com/REMAXAdamContoshttps://www.instagram.com/REMAXadamcontos/ Leave us a voicemail:888-581-4430

Every day is filled with choices. You're here because you're choosing to start with a win. Get ready to be inspired, learn something new, and connect with the win nation. And coming to you from Denver, Colorado, headquarters of Remax World Headquarters. Headquarters of Remax World Headquarters. Did I just say that, Mark? I think you did say the headquarters of the World Headquarters. It's the double headquarters. It's the H2 quarters. So we've got a fun show today, Mark, and a very serious one,

because this is a really, really important situation. And something that we all need to be focused on, whether or not you're in the real estate space, because let's face it, we all live somewhere, right? So fair housing, fair housing. I want to talk about this today because I'm very passionate about this. I am huge into making sure that a key focus of business is equality. And I love, love our communities. And this is something that builds amazing communities is fair housing. So how about we get into that today, Mark? I think we have the perfect guest on the show to talk about this with us. Yes. So we reached out to the National Association of Realtors and got Brian Green on the show, the Director of Fair Housing Policy at the National Association of Realtors. So Brian

is responsible for representing NAR on all fair housing related federal regulatory and legislative matters to really ensure that the interests of consumers and the real estate industry are protected. And this is, I love this. Brian manages NAR's new 45 member fair housing policy committee. So it really makes sure that our industry and the industry that everybody lives in, for crying out loud, because we all live someplace, whether or not you own a house or rent it, this is super, super important that the public policy issues surrounding fair housing and equal opportunity are supported appropriately in order to ensure and enhance housing equality. So, Brian, welcome to the show, my friend.

Hey, thanks, Adam. It's great to be here. Hey, Brian, tell us a little bit about yourself. Where do you come from? Well, I'm a New Yorker, but I've lived now more than half of my life in Washington, D.C. That's where I am this minute. And I've been with NAR about a year. I'll have my one-year anniversary November 1st. I was a Fed before that. I oversaw the nation's enforcement of our fair housing laws. Awesome. Well, thank you for your service to our country and the federal government. We appreciate that. And thank you for joining the National Association of Realtors. As somebody who has a for people not familiar with fair housing, or maybe they need to brush up on the concept, can you give us an overview of fair housing and

why it's so important? Sure. So, fair housing is a euphemistic phrase for essentially non-discrimination in housing. So it concerns civil rights. So I have been involved in fair housing and the enforcement of the Fair Housing Act, which is the landmark civil rights statute that prohibits discrimination in virtually all housing-related transactions. So housing sales, housing rentals, the mortgage market, homeowners insurance, the advertising of housing and housing-related services, appraisals, membership in real estate associations, all of that is covered under the 1968 Fair Housing Act. And it prohibited discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, sex, and then later families with children and people with

disabilities. And so taken together, those are the civil rights related issues when it comes to housing. Federal government enforces those laws. We have state and local laws. And then, of course, at the National Association of Realtors, we also have a code of ethics that enshrines those principles. And we've added at the National Association of Realtors that our members can't discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity, which is not currently covered under federal law. So we go that extra step. And so in a nutshell, that's what fair housing is. That's what we're talking about. We're talking about civil rights. So we're clear to everybody listening. Fair

housing is not a suggestion. People think about different aspects of society and they're like, well, I'm not breaking law or something like that if they cut a corner or they don't understand something. But lack of knowledge is not an excuse for violating the rules or violating the law. So can you tell us how serious it is for people to follow fair housing? Just to get that out there, I'm not trying to come in hard on anybody here, but I think the importance of this needs to be stated for everybody because this is how we live in this country and how we treat each other. And it's important for everybody to understand that this is not a suggestion. Right. So it's important to remember that this law that guarantees these

rights comes out of the 1960s and comes four years after the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which many know prohibited discrimination in hotels and restaurants. So, you know, when we had, you know, official Jim Crow in many states, this law said you can't now deny service to people. And at that time, you know, many people would say, well, it's my restaurant, it's my hotel, it's my business, I serve whom I want. And the federal government said, no, in this country, we have interstate commerce and you can't tell people they can't stay in your hotel because of their race or color or religion, et cetera. And then four years later, essentially the Civil Rights Act of 1968, in which the Fair Housing Act is Title VIII, we said, same goes for housing. And this was

seven days after the assassination of Martin Luther King, who had been a strong advocate for this legislation. We said, no, you don't get to say, it's my house. I decide who I want to rent it to or sell it to. So this is a wide-reaching law that protects everyone from discrimination. So yeah, there are consequences. United States Department of Justice and HUD investigate cases. They bring cases in U.S. District Court or before the HUD administrative law judge all the time. Private parties file complaints in federal courts, and it's a big deal. There's damages you could pay for violating this law. There's civil penalties, punitive damages, injunctions. So it's a big deal. This is the

essence of guaranteeing our rights under the Constitution and our federal laws. I love that. And Ryan, I know this is what you do and what you've done for the federal government. A lot of times people will come to you and go, okay key aspect, the key reminders of fair housing. What do you say to that? What is the very short, succinct, here's what you need to know. And here's also where people either intentionally or unintentionally, because you can unintentionally violate this, not knowingly, but you actually do violate it. How do you keep it knowing and intentional to ensure that you are following these rules in your business as somebody in the real estate space? So I guess the elevator speech is judge people based on their financial qualifications and judge all people on the same financial qualifications. Do not judge people based on their background or vary from the true standards, the business standards you have for housing. And I say financial qualifications, bootstrap to that, of course, is if you're an apartment manager and you have requirements that people also have a

good landlord reference or that they have not violated their tenancy in other ways, whatever your standards are, your business standards, apply those equally. And there might be a proviso to that, I would add, that makes sure whatever your business practices are, are legitimate and related to the business. Because there are certain practices you can employ that have the effect of turning away groups of people unfairly. And so if you have like some standard that's kind of random, doesn't have anything to do with housing, but it has the effect of turning away 99% of Hispanic applicants, you better be prepared to defend what this has to do with your business, or if you have some standard that would turn away women,

for example, but can't justify how it furthers the business. You've got a problem then. So business practices have to be business practices and not discriminate against people based on their backgrounds. Excellent points, Brian. And a great elevator speech, by the way. Great job on that. That elevator was going up a few floors. I kept going there.

And there's only two of us on there, right? Right now? So- And wearing masks, wearing masks. There you go. So speaking of the coronavirus, I mean, there've been a lot of changes in how people do business.

They've made adjustments, things like that. And I'll tell you also, on top of that, the housing industry is on fire. It is exploding. Have you seen the coronavirus affect fair housing in any way? Have you noticed any shifts? I'm not sure that I have all the aggregate data, but I can tell you at least what my colleagues, the economists, are reporting and some of my perceptions. Well, first of all, when COVID hit, everyone hunkered down and was really worried about what the impact would be on real estate sales.

And in a couple of months, we realized, one, we knew how to show housing through a pandemic. And two, many people wanted to sell and buy. In terms of sales, there is a limited supply, and that's created higher demand and higher prices, and things are flying off the shelves, as it were. So that's interesting. I know some people have reported in certain markets, you're seeing many residents move from central cities out to the suburbs. And while you're seeing some of that, it certainly doesn't define the market.

But in certain cities, you're seeing a little bit more of that. And so that's an interesting development. I think that's going to sort of balance out in time. I mean, you know, our cities have the appeal they have for many reasons. The current moment, many of those things that make cities attractive, you can't engage in because of a pandemic. But I think that's going to balance out in time. But I think the biggest thing from a fair housing perspective that we witnessed was

a recognition, especially early on in the pandemic, that communities with significant populations of people of color were faring worse in this pandemic health-wise. And it really underscored for many people how our residential geography has influenced health on every marker. And so, you know, we began to see that, you know, many of the people on the front lines during the pandemic and first responders were disproportionately minority and that they were living in segregated areas with poorer access to health care. And so so as the pandemic progressed, I saw, at least in many of my circles, people beginning to acknowledge that we have these very serious fault lines in our geography. And corresponding with that were the poorer health outcomes during

the pandemic. And so it really did wake up a lot of people to how health and housing are related. It's, I mean, an incredibly insightful point. And with your colleagues and the influence you have from, you know, you've got Chief Economist, Dr. Yoon at NAR there, as well as all your colleagues and your insight and oversight in the industry. So that urban-suburban, the adjustments, changes, mixture, updating, whatever you want to call it. We're seeing a lot of movement between urban and suburban, obviously, during the pandemic. And it's a great opportunity for fair housing to really rise to the surface because we have people who traditionally move within their community moving outside of their existing community. And so you have all these different opportunities for us to show how we really focus on equality

and housing right now. Do you have any closing thoughts on fair housing when it comes to that? Well, I mean, we have to remember that the housing market is also more than sales. And in the rental market, it's just devastating in that most of the housing providers in this country are mom and pop landlords. And they're having a really, really difficult time because as a result of the pandemic and the economic impacts of it, people are unable to pay rent and the housing providers aren't getting rental assistance. And there's a moratorium on evicting people. So that is going to, I think, going to be a major impact on the market overall, even as we see those who have taken advantage of the opportunity to buy in this market. So I cannot predict how all of that's going to balance out, but I think we're going to probably recognize that we have many faults in our market that we've got to figure out in the event that we have a pandemic like this

again. You mentioned it a couple of times, recognizing faults in our market. Really, that's what we have to continue to look for and the opportunities in order to improve upon those. Thank you so much for your insight on it. We're honored to have an expert in fair housing on our show today. So thank you, Brian. And just going back to you one more time. I mean, you're an amazing person. I know you're a musician, you're a winner. And I love just the conversation that we had leading into the show before we went live here. But Brian, I have a question I want to ask you that I ask all of our audience or all of our guests that I know our audience wants to know. And that is Brian, how do you start your day with a win? I think like a lot of people, I try to get up early and get in some kind of exercise. And then

also I use that time to really sort of think through what I have planned for the day and reach out to a few people. Invariably, you know, I'm contacted by people all over the country and it's very hard during the day to find the time to sort of provide the attention I need to different requests. And so usually I like to start my day by getting in a walk because my knees don't allow me to run as much as I used to start my day by getting in a walk because my knees don't allow me to run as much as I used to. I usually try to run a little bit during that walk. And then sometimes while I'm walking, respond to people and try to address concerns, help address, you know, the issue that's arising in their community and make that connection with those people.

So usually that's my opportunity to do that and to also just learn really what's going on in these different communities throughout the country. And so by the time my day starts, often there's something interesting I've learned already from an inquiry I've gotten from someone somewhere in the country. It's an illuminating start to the day. Awesome. I mean, you definitely start with several wins there. I mean, hitting the ground running and exercise and planning and learning. Fantastic. And truly the patterns of a winner. So thank you so much. And Brian, we got a lot out of this today. We appreciate what you do. You are in an incredibly important position and amazing influence on really, I mean, everybody in the United States. So thank you for what you do. I know our audience got a lot out of this. Where can people find you or more information about fair housing? Yeah. So you can find

information on fair housing at nar.realtor slash fair housing. That's fair hyphen housing. You can also find me by writing me at B green. That's B G R double E N E at nar.realtor. We don't have any com on that. So it's just at nar.realtor. Love it. Thanks so much, Brian. We appreciate you being on the show. Thank you so much. Yeah.

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