Start With A Win - Real Estate Leadership with the former CEO of RE/MAX

Starting point is 00:00:00 But in order to give, you have to learn and you have to be current and relevant with what you're learning. Yeah, let's fight about the idea. Let's not fight each other. Did it change the culture? Is it better? Is it worse? Let's take a look at this from a leadership perspective. Welcome to Start With A Win, where we unpack franchising, leadership, and business growth. Let's go. And coming to you from Start With A Win headquarters at Area 15 Ventures, it's Adam Kantos. We're going to jump right into me being interviewed by James Dwigans and Keith Robinson from the Real Estate Insiders Unfiltered podcast. Let's get right into it.

Starting point is 00:00:37 Adam, welcome to the podcast. Long overdue. I know I am very excited to have you here today um it's a slow news day in residential real estate right um as usual there's always some drama llama running through the room knocking tables over somewhere i'm sure we'll talk about that but um look man we're excited uh i wanted to chat with you, hear a little about your background. I think the viewers and listeners who don't know you will be really intrigued to hear how you got to the place that you've been in your career, your amazing podcast, a lot of the consulting and the business coaching you're doing. But I guess let's just start there and give them, for those that don't know you, give them a little bit of background because I just wanted to preface, you started as a sheriff's officer running SWAT, correct? Yes.

Starting point is 00:01:30 And then ended up being the CEO of one of the largest real estate brands in the world. That's a big shift. So let's just give us the lowdown on that. I usually say that the good part was I didn't get shot at anymore in the real estate space, but I don't know if you can say that anymore. So target rich environment recently. Anyhow, first of all, thank you for having me on you and Keith. It's a long time listener, first time caller here. So this is a fun podcast to be on because I mean, Frank, I love the unfiltered part, but a little bit about my history. So of course, my first career, like most people in this industry have a first career. My first career was in law enforcement. I got in when

Starting point is 00:02:18 I was pretty young, 21 years old. I got commissioned after I was in the Marines for a little bit. And I, thank you. And I kind of grew up in law enforcement. I worked commissioned after I was in the Marines for a little bit. And, um, I, thank you. And I, I, I kind of grew up in law enforcement. I worked undercover for a couple of years. I actually learned sales by buying drugs undercover. So just, just all the listeners, we do not recommend that as sales training, right? Just for anyone who's listening, that is an approach. So I had a, uh, I actually had a sales program called Narc Marketing that I taught. This is turning out to be the best podcast already, right out of the gate. Tell me that book exists somewhere because I want a copy.

Starting point is 00:02:57 No, but I need to write that one, Keith. You do. You do. You do. Right after this podcast. Yeah, totally. But I'll tell you, the DEA Undercover Nar Narcotic School, is one of the best ways to learn sales because you go out and they drop you on a street corner and they go, go buy drugs.

Starting point is 00:03:13 And so you have to go find somebody that does not know who you are, gain their trust and confidence, learn about their problems, and then do a life-changing transaction with them. Does this sound a little bit like real estate to you? A little bit. I mean, a little bit. A lot. It's not drugs. It's not like a pound of Coke or something like that we're trying to buy here. So, you know, it's a house. But for crying out loud, it is about meeting new people and gaining their trust and confidence, which was life-changing for me. So I worked undercover for a couple of years, and I grew up in the law enforcement agency that I still have an affiliation with. I'm still a volunteer with them.

Starting point is 00:03:54 But I got on a SWAT team because of my military background and because we were kicking doors every night on the narcotics unit anyway, serving search warrants. But ultimately, I became the SWAT team commander. I became a counterterrorism instructor, Homeland Security instructor right around 9-11, no less. So I was a little bit busy, but I also had a consulting company. I started an online business selling government products and then switched that to a consulting company because in the 90s, it was really difficult to sell stuff online, especially to the government. Still is difficult to sell to the government, but try it back then when everybody wanted a paper check and an RFP. So ultimately started the consulting company. Hang on a second. Let me get a drink here.

Starting point is 00:04:42 It's already been podcasting all day. No, all good all good man all good we'll all join you but but ultimately what are you drinking there james no here we go it is kombucha it's a little bit hippy dippy but it has a little bit of alcohol in it which is why i just slowly drink it through the day there you go don't let me get started very california my friend yeah you know what you can be judgy all you want. I like the damn shit. So there's that. Good.

Starting point is 00:05:07 Someone needs to. There you go. So anyhow, I built a training course for real estate agents, how not to get killed while doing your job. It was called SAFER, Safety Awareness for Every Realtor. Really? And yeah, that took off quite a bit in the early 2000s. I actually had agents come up to me and say, thank you for that. You saved my life. I implemented those techniques.

Starting point is 00:05:30 That's awesome. Yeah, it was very satisfying. So at that point, I got a job offer to go work in the franchising consulting business for Remax. Dave Linegar himself asked me if I would like to come work in the organization since I was working with so many people in the industry. I said, of course, I love the industry. I love the people involved. I like the entrepreneurial spirit. I like not getting shot at, things of that nature. So I jumped over into Remax to do franchise consulting work and work my way up in the organization. I oversaw different regions, franchise marketing and sales, advertising marketing and brand marketing, human resources, IT.

Starting point is 00:06:15 I have a leadership question that just popped right into my head. So you go from leading SWAT teams and sort of a pretty controlled command structure, right? I tell you what to do, you're going to do it. Of course, there's communication and fluidity and all of the things you need to have an effective team, but much more hierarchical. I say you do, we execute together. You transition from that to residential real estate where you're going there is almost none right like we beg bribe cajole it's chris you know it's donuts and and in bloody mary's to get them to come to the office meeting or whatever how was that transition for you like how did well, what was it like?

Starting point is 00:07:05 And then making some assumptions on what it was like, but if it's like, I think it might've been, how'd you deal with that? Well, I mean, first of all, in the early two thousands, I'll say one of my first bigger meetings, there was almost a fist fight. So I thought it was back at home. So you and Keith are going to get along really well

Starting point is 00:07:22 because he wants to do everything trial by combat. And I'm like, we can't do that from an HR perspective although I think it would be useful sometimes so I mean yeah we may not always get the right decision but it is simpler and it's a lot of fun and you hug it you hug it out after the fight that's right that's right that's right yeah um it it was uh a little bit challenging going from that environment and frankly, where you, you know, when you're done with a call, you're generally done with a call. If it's a SWAT call and you're packing up your gear and going home, it's because it's over. It's not because it's going to continue tomorrow or for 45 days or until the inspection or anything like that. So definitely a big difference.

Starting point is 00:08:02 But more than anything, it's an awareness of the people. So, you know, the leadership in law enforcement is understanding people, understanding their challenges, combining those things together and then helping them solve their problems. It's the same thing in real estate. So that's how I looked at it is I just need to, I need to connect with these people because after so many fights as a cop, you're done fighting and you want to connect and you want to find a common ground with people. So at some point you're like, all right, let's, let's all get along and solve some of the world's problems together. So it, it worked out well when it came to business, it's a chess game of emotions and relationships. Yeah. Yeah. So that's kind of how I looked at it. And that's really still how it is today

Starting point is 00:08:46 with a massive amount of trust and confidence and things like that built into it. But ultimately, it is not, I would say, it's not going against the grain. It is relatively parallel. Yeah. Makes sense. All right. Let's do a few rapid fires because i want to hear your answers to these uh because we've talked about drugs we've talked about swat we've talked about fights we've and we talked about real estate shortly but we'll get more into that um okay rapid fires 30 seconds or less just to give the viewers and listeners a little about so who you are so if you were a superhero who would it be and why oh without a without a doubt, Captain America. Yeah. See, I was going to guess that by the way.

Starting point is 00:09:29 So have you ever dressed up as Captain America, by the way? Have you ever done it today? No. No, I will say this. No, I have never dressed up as Captain America. I was driving down the road one time down the highway and captain america pulled up next to me on his motorcycle with his shield on his back one day though i'm like dang look at that guy i honked and gave him a thumbs up and stuff yeah that guy's done it and whoever that guy is has a great life right like he's never totally mad yeah yeah well i was gonna say dead i was gonna say deadpool originally but he's not a superhero. He's kind of the anti-hero. I know, but he's so good, though.

Starting point is 00:10:08 There's very few rules on this podcast. We could go supervillain. We're fine. He is friends with Captain America and Spider-Man, though. That's true. He's hero-adjacent. All right, Keith.

Starting point is 00:10:24 Favorite book or podcast well we usually say this year but in the last 12 months or and why i'm gonna go this year keith so you know getting it down here buddy go ahead i just i just finished this one this is called essentialism by greg mckeown the discipline pursuit of less okay interesting so get this book i know a lot of people would be like atomic habits or something like that which james clear love him it's a great book i've read it like half a dozen times and all the habit books this is kind of the next phase of that on how to say no to shit you shouldn't be doing oh so um it's keith you are not allowed to read that because you're talking about my and delegate everything you're gonna be like

Starting point is 00:11:10 nah i'm not doing it i already do yeah i know it's my point so um all right last one last one uh if you could have lunch with one person current or historical who would it be and why i'm gonna go with somebody current because i want to know what their crystal ball says i'm gonna say elon musk yeah that's a good one that's a good one that's a good one buckle up well yeah that guy is either yeah yeah well he either has insight into what's going on in the future somehow, or he's going to go disrupt it anyway. So I'd love to ask him about the current state of affairs in the residential real estate market. Yeah. That's an interesting conversation. He would have a thought on it that most others have not probably. probably i mean you kind of have to you have to like i mean he's very out there obviously but you also have to look at it and go man this guy is is just on a different planet like tesla you

Starting point is 00:12:14 people wanted it to fail largest car manufacturer in the world uh you've got spacex i mean he literally is nasa so like i mean it's just incredible what the guy does and how he thinks um that'd be a good one that'd be interesting although you'd have to like really follow along because his brain's operating so quickly he doesn't get the words out so you need an interpreter there that's exactly yeah for sure all right so let be guided by one of the greatest real estate executives of our lifetime, Dave Linegar. And you were there from 2004, so 18 years, if I'm correct with that. Yeah. And seven positions starting in the franchise sales sort of consulting role.

Starting point is 00:13:05 You mentioned all the way up to the chief executive officer of one of the largest brands in the world. Like what, just give us like, what were, what was that like? Like, how did you get there?

Starting point is 00:13:16 Cause I think so many people want to do things like that, but I've never achieved that kind of movement up the ranks to, to leading a publicly traded company. That's, you know, massive. So I just get a little, like, I don't know, just tell us like, what did that look like? That, that movement up, how did you get there? What was it like to, to, to be taught by Dave and just, you know, I don't know where did, where do we go with this? I just want to hear about that background. Oh, there's a, I think there are a couple of key factors here in this. One of which I would say is relationships. So for instance, like James, you and I met several years ago at an international

Starting point is 00:13:53 franchise association meeting. Nothing to do with real estate. It was funny because I walk into this, this room and there's James sitting over at this table. I still remember where the table was. It was kind of. Yeah. And you were with, you were with Dave. I remember you guys were at the bar. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And it was about meeting people and connecting with them and building relationships. I don't care what business you're in. In fact, I've probably talked to most of the CEOs in the space since I've left Remax simply to say, hi hey, my friend, how you doing? It's been a while, stuff like that. And those relationships are rock solid because I was very agnostic in the space. While I had opinions, I wasn't insulting with them. I was transparent, but caring and kind.

Starting point is 00:14:40 And you don't have to be friendly, but you got to be kind. And that's what I think builds a respect. So you've got to really work on that. And this coming from somebody who has never wanted to just walk into a room and meet a whole bunch of people. Because remember, I didn't want anybody to know my name or what I look like. I had a fake name for crying out loud. So, you know, working undercover or whatever. But it was a huge part of relationships. And when you build relationships, not just horizontally in an industry, but also vertically in your organization, people, they respect you because you're respecting their position, but you're not kind of kowtowing to their position. If you treat people like an equal, they will treat you like an equal nine times out of 10, unless they're harboring something internally, which is, you know, basically they feel threatened. And I don't care who you are. I'm not intimidated or threatened by you. It doesn't matter to me. So, you know, I want to kind of meet you where you're at and let's do some great things together

Starting point is 00:15:45 is kind of how I've always approached people. Secondarily, Dave gave me a piece of advice that to this day, I still share with as many people as I possibly can. And that's simply this, be a sponge. And by being a sponge, it doesn't mean go just learn a whole bunch of stuff. And yes, I like to read books. Yes, Keith, I only read this this year. I started this year with it. You finished. Yeah, I finished it. What is today? The eighth. I finished it this week. So, you know, call it like the seventh yesterday. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:16:15 You know, it's a great book, by the way. And I'll go find another one tomorrow to go read. But what I'm doing is I'm giving them back. So a sponge sucks things up. It absorbs things and then it returns things. It doesn't just absorb and keep. So a lot of people think that leading is about just learning. No, leading is about giving. But in order to give, you have to learn and you have to be current and relevant with what you're learning. So really, and just to kind of put a label on that, that's called value when you give value back. So when you take the relationship piece and the value piece and you do that in your organization consistently, that's the hard part. And that's really what differentiates like professional athletes from amateurs is consistency.

Starting point is 00:16:59 People who are willing to continue to do those things, even when everybody else is bored of them. So you have to look at yourself as a professional athlete that is consistently giving value and building those relationships. All three of those things together, I guess you could say, that really has probably the largest impact on your growth in an organization. Now, I will say this, the death of the, the death of the whole thing is your attitude and your ego about it. So if you have a crappy attitude and you have an ego that is trying to protect something, you'll never get anywhere. You will die a very miserable death

Starting point is 00:17:40 while you're trying to defend your ego and exhibit really an attitude that drags other people down i know it's interesting sorry no we'll go to keith please please go go how do you balance ego and defending an idea right because to me ego is taking it personally but there should be a high clash of ideas right there There should be the freedom and the ability to debate concepts or ideas. How do you balance that when you're working, you know, whether it's up, down, sideways in an organization? Do you have like a little alarm bell that goes off? Like, oh, I've dipped into ego territory. Like I'm digging my heels in a little more than I should. Or how do you balance that, making sure that the idea is going through the crucible,

Starting point is 00:18:36 but not doing it with ego attached to it? I think your reputation will begin to tell people that that's okay. And a big lever in that is gratitude. So if you're constantly deploying gratitude because somebody is willing to give you their position instead of just sitting there and shutting up, which you see all these different meetings go on in bureaucratic organizations, things like that, where people just sit there on their hands. And basically you're operating in an environment of learned helplessness and i love that term it totally describes different industries right now it describes a real estate industry right now you know for not not being political but we are involved in a a function of learned helplessness because of the the vertical integration within the industry itself and the rules and people afraid of saying something.

Starting point is 00:19:26 And then once they do, everybody just attacks. So if you have that attack constantly, it's because there's no gratitude for that feedback that is there and the respect that comes with that. And you just got to be willing to admit, hey, I'm coming to the table because I know I don't have the best idea. Let's find the best idea and maybe let's take something from everybody, but I appreciate what everybody gives. And if you get everybody to open up and start discussing things and strip their ego away,

Starting point is 00:19:56 and I think a lot of that has to do with laying the framework of here's the ground rules. One, no ego. Two, you know, we're probably going to be making some of this shit up. So let's all be okay with that. Let be honest about that fact yeah totally exactly and yeah here's the other thing don't be a sissy about it get get dirty you know go after it get hungry defend your ideas let's fight about them but ultimately we need to hug it out at the end and say right this was all for the best of the situation let's find something that works for everybody yeah let's fight about the idea let's not

Starting point is 00:20:30 fight each other right this isn't about you and me this is about us beating this idea up to refine it to to its purest best form right right yeah i mean you've heard you've heard play the ball not the person yeah yeah yeah right there yeah yeah you know it's also i i think as you were talking about it it reminds me of this it's it's just the way i've i've personally always thought there's abundancy mindset or scarcity mindset and it's i've seen it in so many different actually it's probably about 98 of the industry in residential real estate is scarcity mindset it's it's, I've seen it in so many different, actually, it's probably about 98% of the industry in residential real estate is scarcity mindset. It's, it's always a me, me, me.

Starting point is 00:21:12 I don't want to share. I don't want to do, I don't want to, my competitor is going to do something. And, you know, it's, it's, it's interesting because I've had people ask me over the years, like, why did you share all of that? That's like stuff that, that we do in our company. I'm like, well, first of all, like it all comes back around. Secondly, 90% of the people aren't going to do anything with it anyway. Yeah. 99. Like not, not to be rude about it, but like the reality is most people won't implement.

Starting point is 00:21:36 But I also, at the first point I made, which is what I was getting at. And it's one of the things I've always loved about you, Adam, just like watching you over the years and listening to you speak is you're very, you're very abundancy mindset. Like your, your concept is to help people share ideas, communicate. It's a rare trait in our industry. It's, it really is a rare trait. It's everybody's like, they kind of play to that, but inside they're like, well, I'm, I'm, I don't want to give you too much because it's this, you know, this great idea. It comes back so much. I don't know what the word is, Keith, I'm looking for, but it just comes back to you tenfold when you approach the world. Reciprocity. Yeah. What you give, you get.

Starting point is 00:22:18 What was it like? Go ahead. One of the biggest factors of influence, reciprocity. Dr. Robert Gialdini. Go in and give. Give your best. But James, you're absolutely right. It's fascinating because people are like, well, I don't want to share this part or here. They send you a freaking NDA for crying out loud half the time. And they're like, here, before I share the rest of my idea, can you sign this? I'm like, look, there's no really brilliant new ideas out there everything's been thought of and you know if you're going to tell me your spin on it great that's that's fantastic go do something with it instead of ndaing me not to yeah right right yeah yeah so common what's like a intro you how many how many agents were underneath you at the time in like 2022 2021 was you guys were at remax international was a hundred and something thousand 140 000 140 000 just gave me an ulcer tiny little tiny little organization how how did this is almost me asking personally how did you manage um that many

Starting point is 00:23:20 opinions and usually sometimes the loudest opinion in the room isn't necessarily always the the best or not the best but i i always used i always tell people you don't know what you don't know because people make a lot of assumptions so how did you manage that like that many people in especially in an industry where everybody has one that's a great question. And it was simply by saying one thing and that's thank you. So everybody would deliver their opinion and they all want, they all want to rebuttal on their opinion. They want you to go, oh my gosh, that's great. Let's. And as you know, everybody has like four different ways of doing the same thing and it's their four ways and they're the best four ways. And they all have a new way of, you know, inventing something or doing modern real estate.

Starting point is 00:24:09 I mean, come on, folks. This is not magic. It's relatively straightforward. So stop trying to make it yours and take possession and ownership of it. And that's one of the things is, you know, there is that scarcity mindset, mindset extensively in this industry. I mean, look at the, Hey, you can't, you know, like the MLS rules for, for crying out loud, um, massive scarcity mindset there. Why do you think that permeates the industry so much? Like what's the, what's the genesis of that? Well, I, you know, you go back in history, Keith, and you look at, you can't see this book.

Starting point is 00:24:49 It's secret. The secret book. The secret. Or the dot matrix printer that was like, it was in the CIA or something like that. That's pumping out the listings. And I mean, for crying out loud, that's what the strength of the organization or the industry was based upon. And I think we're a very, very slow industry to evolve. And we only evolve when we have to, not when we want to.

Starting point is 00:25:15 And that's a challenge. You should be evolving when you want to, to try and get ahead of things, because that's when you can test things instead of be forced upon things like, you know, likely what we're seeing right now, where there's going to be change forced upon this industry and everybody's going to be like, oh, this sucks. But I can tell you this, if somebody in the industry invented what that change is going to be, people would be like, that's brilliant. You're like, wait, wait, come on. Let's get out of our own way here for a minute but um yeah i mean it comes down to that where i think there's there's just too much control the reality people are going to buy and sell houses they need someone to help them do that so let's try and you know kind of

Starting point is 00:25:58 innovate towards that you know innovate exactly instead of making it a big classified endeavor secret thing. And then that's when you have scandal and all sorts of other crap. Yeah. So I have had two friends. I would say they're more acquaintance friends that have been in companies that have gone public. And I've always, I always like asking this question just to get different perspectives. So, you know, well, I mean, we have to ask some controversial questions, right? So, you know, well, I mean, we have to ask some controversial questions, right? So, you know, obviously, you know, Dave built this thing with his wife and, you know, the team from scratch and built this massive company. And by the way, going public is a great way to do a lot of things, raise capital, have an exit strategy. But you were there from private to public. What like what what was that like?

Starting point is 00:26:44 Did it change the culture? Is it better? Is it worse? Is it different? Like, What was that like? Did it change the culture? Is it better? Is it worse? Is it different? What does that mean? Because I know we have a lot of entrepreneurs that are like, okay, we're going to raise this capital

Starting point is 00:26:52 and do this stuff and then we're going to go public. And I have a very good Wall Street friend who was like, there's pros and cons. You know, the con is- 100% are, yeah. Yeah, like you're going to be on airplanes

Starting point is 00:27:02 talking to stockholders all day long and trying to sell share price and you're not focused on the business. But big payout, again, what is your take on it? I would agree there are substantial pros and cons. Everybody, and I appreciate why people do that. The reason that Remax did that might be different than the reason that other businesses do that. Sure. But a lot of times, exactly. It's diversifying the holdings of the founders typically. Right. So when you look at it, they should be allowed to take some chips off the table.

Starting point is 00:27:35 And you're either going to sell part of your company to private equity or to some other investment group, or you're going to borrow money against it to try and take some chips off the table somehow. But ultimately, I call it the most effective way of doing that is to IPO. So secondarily, James, if you ever call me up and go, hey, I'm thinking about IPO, and I'll be like, no, don't do it. Okay. So, but it's a fun thing to go through, but it's also, that is now what you are.

Starting point is 00:28:07 You are no longer the founder, CEO of a real estate franchise company. You are now, like you said, answering to the shareholders and the analysts and Wall Street about everything that happens there. And it changes the board structure. So you have to have so many independent board directors. You have to have certain committees. You have to follow this 40,000 page rule book called Sarbanes-Oxley and things like that, which it costs a substantial amount of money in order to have the legal backing, to have all your people internally, to have everything reviewed three or four times.

Starting point is 00:28:45 So I would say, is it great for an organization in certain circumstances at certain times? Yes. But otherwise, is it a hell of a lot of work and brain damage for the rest of the crew? Absolutely. So, but I will say- And the culture changes, I'm assuming, because you're just, you're a publicly traded company. I mean, you've- Yes. I remember when you were doing earnings calls and that's, I'm sure I couldn't imagine how much- Why did you have to bring that up? I mean-

Starting point is 00:29:13 Well, I just can't, I don't know, nor would I ever want to. And for clarity, I'm not planning on doing this to anybody who's thinking that, just that I just would, just listening when you were doing them, just going, Oh my God, like how much time did you have to spend prepping every single response? And like all the questions that are going to come across and just didn't sound fun. I'm still catching up on my sleep, by the way, but, um, it, I'll tell you, you have a very talented group of people that you work with because you have to go out and pay extreme premiums for extremely good people in order for Wall Street to take you seriously and understand what you're talking about. I'll tell you, I had to go get my MBA, I mentioned, in many different instances, and it helped me greatly. It wasn't the same, you know,

Starting point is 00:30:05 obviously the people you learn your MBA from or you take your MBA from a lot of times don't have that experience, but they talk about it, what they've learned in books, things like that. But ultimately, once you get on that roadshow and you're talking to those analysts and you're doing the quarterly earnings calls, things of that nature, it shines a light on a different part of the business atmosphere that you've never been exposed to. And it was really, really fun to learn that. But if you sat me down and said, hey, would you want to go do that again? I'd be like, no, thanks. I'm good.

Starting point is 00:30:32 Yeah, I'm good. Interesting. I figured just knowing you, you would have said that. But that's got to be a hell of a real world experience. Yeah, I wouldn't trade it for for anything but i wouldn't do it again you may not be able to answer this but i'm gonna ask it anyway so uh how much did it change or affect your decision making process meaning knowing that man maybe i'll wait till after this quarterly earnings report and let's push that for 45 days to the other side, some decision or announcement or like,

Starting point is 00:31:08 how much did being publicly traded alter the way you would run the business just because of the structure of being publicly traded? That's a, that's a great question, Keith. The, um, and I never really did a benchmark of, okay, if we weren't versus if we are, you know, when it came to a decision. But I can assure you that it did add another dimension to the chessboard that you're playing on. Yeah. So, you know, instead of a standard chessboard and the multi-dimensions of the different chess pieces, it's now like you've got five or six chessboards stacked on top of each other and you can move the pieces amongst each one.

Starting point is 00:31:43 So it is all about timing and considering the next move and the marketplace and things like that. It is very difficult. And I have the utmost respect for anybody that runs a public company having been there. But at the same time, you're like, I wish I was playing checkers again, as an entrepreneur, just going head to head on these different things. And you're like, if I want to make a decision right now, gosh darn it, I can do that. That being said, it's incumbent upon the executive leadership in a public company to make sure that the customer base understands your public, but also to do your very best to do what's right for

Starting point is 00:32:22 the customer base. Because yes, we talk about shareholder return and things like that, but happy customers increase shareholder return. So if you keep going back to that and you've got this, it's not the shareholder, it's the stakeholder piece. I think with that focus, and certainly that's what, you know, my interaction with all these different public company CEOs has reflected on them. I'm sure there are companies out there that are like shareholder, shareholder, shareholder, but ultimately you got to keep your customers happy and you do that by keeping your employees happy. So it's, it's, it's this multi-level of happiness for that matter, but you know, value creation and return for everybody.

Starting point is 00:33:04 Hey, it's Adam again. This podcast went really long, but it was really good. So we made this a two-part episode. We'll catch you next time for part two.

Start With A Win - Real Estate Leadership with the former CEO of RE/MAX

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