Start With A Win - Utilizing a Growth Mindset: Win When They Say You Won’t with Daphne E. Jones

Episode Date: December 7, 2022

Raised by immigrants who came to America to pursue the dream, Daphne received one message at home and a very different message in school. In school, she was told that as a black woman, she would not be successful in business. But at home, her mother taught her the importance of embracing a mindset that broke through limitations imposed on her by other people and broken systems. Daphne chose to reject seeds of misdirection and believed she could do anything she set her mind to. She built her own success story by learning from each experience and honing her skills for optimum performance. Through her own experiences of breaking through type casting and prejudice in the world of technology and business, Daphne now coaches women to serve on executive boards and excel in leadership, despite the challenges of inequality they face daily. She takes a communal approach, teaching that prioritizing diversity, equity, and inclusion is best for all people and businesses. When one person succeeds, everyone succeeds. In this way, Daphne’s leadership is a powerful reminder that the work being done today leaves an impact for those who come after. Transformation is a result of shifting to a mindset that embraces challenges and uses them as fuel for building a life of influence.Main TopicsDaphne’s humble beginnings as an administrative assistant (02:50)Daphne credits her success to lessons from her mother (05:24)Growth mindset vs. fixed mindset (07:35)The role of giving back in leadership (09:58)Daphne’s experience being a black woman in the technology industry (12:20)Improving equality for people in organizations (16:50)Four steps for changing your life as outlined in Daphne’s book (20:15) Connect with Daphne:https://www.daphneejones.com/https://www.instagram.com/destinysdoor/https://twitter.com/DaphneEJonesConnect with Adam:https://www.startwithawin.com/https://www.facebook.com/AdamContosCEOhttps://twitter.com/AdamContosCEOhttps://www.instagram.com/adamcontosceo/Listen, rate, and subscribe!Apple PodcastsSpotifyGoogle Podcasts

Welcome to Start With A Win, where we give you the tools and lessons you need to create business and personal success. Are you ready? Let's do this. Coming to you from Brand Viva Media Headquarters here in Denver, Colorado, it's Adam Kantos with Start With A Win. You winning today, Mark? I am winning today. Right on. Oh, yeah. I'm always winning. I love it.

Winning's a mindset, too, you know? It is. It's awesome. I mean, it's not just winning one little thing. It's all those little things turn into big wins. That's right. And a life of wins and progress. Yes. That's what it's about, right?

Progress, not perfection. That's right. That's right. Well, hey, our guest today knows all about winning. Daphne E. Jones is an accomplished and seasoned digital technologies executive with over 30 years of experience in general management and executive level roles at IBM, Johnson & Johnson, General Electric. Wow. Yeah, heavy hitter here. She was named one of Illinois' most powerful influential women by National Diversity Council

and premier 100 CIOs by Computer World. She recently started a company that teaches leaders how to prepare to serve on boards of directors. That's a great niche. I love it. I love it. Welcome, Daphne. Hey, good to be here. I just want to dance a little bit more. There you go. I love it. We start our day by dancing. That's right. Get that body moving. That's right. And I love what's behind you. It says win.

What's the bottom say? Win when what? Win when they say you won't. Oh, right on. That's actually the name of my book. Yes. I love that. You know what?

We got some books that are closed. Mine start with a win. And yours is win when they say you won't. I love this. That's great. It was perfect for us to be together. It really was. Totally. Yeah. We're connected here. We're connected with the win. You have an amazing story, Daphne. And I love this so much. You've done so many things and

you've overcome so many obstacles in life to get to where you are. I mean, it's premier 100 CIOs. And let's face it, that's kind of a nerdy white guy's world. You've definitely kind of overcome a lot of those different social challenges that we've seen instituted in society. Unfortunately, they're there. But you are, I mean, you're killing it and such a cool story. So I want to dig back into your history and get to know you a little bit. You started your career as, we called them secretaries then, right? Is that? Yeah, they were secretaries and I know they're administrative assistants now.

But yeah, I was told by my high school counselor that college was not for me. And he said, you know, people like you, girls like you, meaning black girls, won't make it in business. You need to become a secretary. He gave me an option of being a teacher too, which I thought was interesting that he put secretary and teacher in the same conversation because teachers have to know, I think, a little bit more. But he told me to be that. And so I did that, you know, when a white man who's paid to tell you what to do tells you what to do, you do what they tell you to do. And so I became a secretary for Woman's Day magazine in downtown Chicago.

And I was working for the assistant editor of the magazine. And there was all women in the secretarial pool. And there was all white men in the offices, which is funny for a woman's magazine. It was all white men. And that that helped me understand that there's going to be this beginning of incongruous situations where men tell women what to do and things like that. And so I did that. And then based on some mistakes that I made, I'm like, I'm lousy at this. This could not be what it is for me. Could not be. You know what? I'm not going to be a secretary. I'm going to have a secretary. And it was from that moment that I started to say, I'm going to define my own narrative. I'm going to call my own plays. You know, even I didn't know what that meant. I just knew that he was wrong to put me in that limiting capacity. Now, there's nothing wrong with being a secretary.

It's just that don't tell me that that's all I can do. Tell me that all I can do is what I want to do. I love that. That's an awesome attitude. And I'll tell you what. I have two daughters. My wife is probably the best leader I know of in my life. And I'll tell you what.

For us to put people in a box in life is not the right leader I know of in my life. And I'll tell you what, for us to put people in a box in life is not the right thing to do. I think what we need to do is say, here's the opportunities, set the bar as high as you want to go. And then we're going to help you raise that bar and do even more and get even better. Yes, yes.

So it's fascinating because, you know, you ended up becoming a CIO and board member at major global companies. And I'll tell you, having been a public company CEO and board director, that is not easy for anybody. What made you set the bar at that level? How did you go from, I'm a secretary. No, screw you. I'm not a secretary. I'm doing this, this, and this.

How did you look that direction and start running that way? My mom is – because of my mom. I'm going to blame her for everything. Thanks, Mom. Basically, yeah, thanks, Mom. Hey, Mom. She said it's your – whatever you set your mind to doing, that's what you can do. And because she was a Jamaican immigrant, she cleaned bedpans for a living.

My dad worked on the factory floor, so they were undereducated. But they knew that coming to America was going to be the dream. And so she said, education is everything and everything is education. So whatever you study and put your mind to, whoever has your mind, Daphne, has you. And so it helped me that in spite of the realist, the real discrimination or limiting and labeling that was going on, I also had my mom, who was in the other ear saying, you know, you can do whatever you want to do. And so what I found out is I did not know at 20 or 19 or whatever that I was going to be a board member. I just said, I want to be not a secretary and I want to go to college and decide what I want to do. And so then after I did that, then I said, I want to work for IBM. Okay. You know, done. Then at IBM, I said, I want to be

a systems engineering manager. Okay. Done. So you kind of do these series of leveling up, you know, it's like your iPhone is at version, the iOS is at version 16.01 or whatever it is now. It didn't start at 16. It started at version one. And then it went to two. It didn't jump from one to 16. So neither did I jump from being a high school or college graduate to being a board member. You just say, I want to level up. What's next for me? And then you follow role models. You see what other people are doing. And then it helps you kind of get an idea. Okay. If they can do that, I see how they did that. Now I'm a black girl, so it may not quite happen the same way for me.

But I know that it's possible for me to get to another level. So that's kind of how I started my mindset. I love this. You are, you're an opportunist. You're not a victim. And you look at it of where's my opportunity and capability as opposed to I can't do something. Oh my God, yes. That's an interesting mindset shift. Unpack that a little bit for us. Yeah, there's the growth mindset and the fixed mindset. I didn't write the book, but I love it. Because there are people who believe that if there's a hundred and they believe there's only a hundred, and if you get 10, they only got 90, or if you get 15, they only have 85. So they're, they believe that the opportunities are fixed. And I believe that the opportunity for growth is there. So I haven't learned all I can. I haven't

earned all I can. I haven't returned all I can. I have a lot to learn. I have lots to contribute and to give. And so when you have that mindset, then that's because your mind determines what you do. And then what you do gives you your outcomes. And so if you don't like your outcomes, you got to change how you think. And so I wanted to think a certain way because I wanted a certain kind of an outcome. And that's really what it is, a growth mindset and a fixed mindset. And whoever has your mind, whether it fixed has your mind or growth has your mind, that's where you are. Bam. Wow. I mean, that was a mic drop moment right there. I hear you. And one thing that I will never do is drop my mic because that's what people want you to do. They want to because that's what people want you to do.

They want to lower your ambition. They want you to hide your culture. They want you to not show your diversity of thought. They want you to – I know drop the mic is a really wonderful thing. I don't mean it that way. But I remember people talking about dropping the mic. I'm like, I don't want that mic. Yeah, keep your voice.

Yes. Yes, keep your voice. That's amazing. And I mean, you just gave like this business and growth masterclass there in the last couple of minutes. That was really good. There are a few things that really stuck out to me. I love the – I'm one of those consummate learners also. And I can't stress enough to our listeners, Daphne learns every day. This is a lifelong project of yours is to gain something, process it, create value with it, and then give it back.

Give it out. That's right. Exactly. And it's interesting because we have all these people that come in, they're like, oh, I got to learn. And you see the people in different businesses that, and you've been in major corporations, you see these people that go and they gather information. They'll go to a meeting and they'll be like, I'm not sharing this with anybody. They're information hoarders, information hoarders. Why is giving back so important for leaders? I mean, what comes to mind from you?

Because we go get it, we're like, this is awesome. I'm giving it to everybody that I can find as value. Why does that matter so much? Well, you know, we're not here by ourselves, and we're not here, therefore, only for ourselves. And one of my role models is Harriet Tubman. And she's actually sitting in, well, she's not sitting in my office. Her picture is sitting in my office where she was trying to help the enslaved people get to freedom. And my motto came from her. I call it the push-pull strategy

because what she's doing in that picture is she's got a rifle under her arm and a lantern in her hand. And she's going that way. And I think that way is north. And so she's going that way. But what's behind, so she's pushing towards dangerous environment. She could get shot. She could get killed. She could get, you know, whatever, as she goes into the forest and trying to find freedom again for the people. And then behind her are, she's pulling people along. So, because unless everybody is free, nobody is free, right? If my brother's in trouble, I'm in trouble. If my sister's in trouble, I'm in trouble. So it's really in a way, a selfish concept that I have is that I got to help them because otherwise I might be in

trouble, right? And so we are here together feeding each other, helping each other so that we can all win. Because, you know, having a single person winning, what is that? Right. I know what that is. So it's a push-pull. Push your way forward to new adventures. Be the unicorn if you have to be. If you can't see somebody that does what you do and looks like you, be that person that will be a role model to others.

And then on your way, pull people along. Send the elevator back down so other people can get on. It's really super important. That's awesome. I mean, your giving mindset keeps showing through here. It's incredible. in the businesses as a black woman in, in this STEM space and this technology space, which it's, especially, you know, as, as you and I both were progressing in our careers,

you didn't see black women rising in technology. It wasn't, you know, like it was a nerdy white guy sport and, and it's so awesome what you did. What was that like? You know, you had to overcome some obstacles. You had to walk in some meetings and go, oh, all right. Yep. Tell me about that. Yeah. Absolutely right. Absolutely.

Yeah. So with STEM, science, technology, engineering, and math, I was the only one. Yeah. And they say that if you're going to be it, you have to see it. Well, I didn't see it. I didn't see any of us or many of us that look like me. And so you walk in a room and there is a shift. People are like, who is that? Because, you know, you're different. Everyone else is in there that's white and they're men. And there's some women that were in there, certainly, but they certainly were not black. And so you can't help but be noticed. And and people didn't come running over to me to find out, you know, are you Diana Ross or, you know, are you Elvis Presley? Whatever. I was not some rock star that they they came over to. They kind of kept their distance. So that's sort of how it was in in working at at IBM and others, because and I I have this philosophy, right or wrong, is that people that don't look like me may not be used to working next to somebody that looks like me. People that look

like me are typically, as we took Aunt Jemima off the pancake box and we took Uncle Ben's off the rice box, we are people that they see as cooks or house cleaners or people who take care of their children. They don't see in me, when they first look at me, somebody who could handle a hundred million dollar budget, right? Or somebody that can be a succession, in the succession for CEO or CFO or what have you. And so the typecasting happens and then they try to they put you in a category that says you're not going to win. And so we have these these seeds of misdirection that are planted all throughout our lives. When I was a little girl, all the way up until I was senior vice president. You can't do that. That's really impossible.

So these seeds of misdirection are planted and then you begin to believe it. You believe to say, well, yeah, I can't do that. You know, that's not for me. And so you have to have something in your mindset that says I can do it. My counselor told me something that I thought was true. He said this is impossible. Then you have to say the word impossible is just somebody's opinion. It's not a fact. Sometimes impossible is a fact. But a lot of times it's really somebody's opinion and their biases. So the word that I had to gravitate towards was the word inevitable. It was just a matter of time. So Daphne, hang in there. You are the only one, but you won't be the only one forever. It's just a matter of time before it comes. So you have to, I had to perform really well just in case that some other black girl that comes after me, they say, you know what? That we had a black girl named Daphne and it didn't work out so well. So we're not going to hire you.

So you have to almost have this paranoia that you're doing it for the people. You're not just doing it for yourself. You're doing it for those that are coming behind you. So a lot of a lot of challenge around assimilation versus being authentic. Could I be my authentic self, whatever that is, or did I have to assimilate to be like everybody else? So at IBM, you wear a pinstripe suit because that's what everybody else wore. And that's what the white men wore with burgundy pin with burgundy. Um, uh, I forgot the kind of shoes that we had to wear, but they were burgundy and they had little dots in them. But I didn't get the same attention or the same respect. So you find, well, I can assimilate, but I won't get the same results. Or I can be authentic and I may not win there either.

So it's a balance that you have to play is to be how should I be like where I can be myself, but also I have to not scare people away and I have to assimilate. So it's a daily balance of how to be. I love your awareness. You're so aware of yourself and leadership is awareness in three directions, in my opinion. It's awareness of yourself, it's awareness of others, and it's awareness of your business. And you just, you hit all three of those so succinctly where you measured and managed your expectations and your actions around those. And you were just, you were very accountable with those. And, you know, accountability is witnessing, it's not judging. You know, you were witnessing everything going on. It just, this again is

another, I'm eating this up. It's a leadership masterclass going on here with Daphne. It's fascinating what we're getting out of this information you're talking about. I have a question for you. Having been in a major organization, and I still talk to a lot of large companies, a lot of companies just across holistically. We don't have to be large company, small company, public, private, or a government entity. Could be any or all of these things. But how can each of us improve equality and a fair playing field for the people in our organizations?

That's a phenomenal question. That's a million-dollar question. It is, yeah. I mean, give us your flyover of that. Well, as my book, When They Say You Won't, you know, talks about, I believe that most things begin with the mindset. If you have the mind that diversity is important, that equity is important, and inclusion is important. A lot of times, first of all, we're throwing it all together like it's one thing. You can have a diverse organization and it'd be inequitable, right?

So it's not DEI, it's diversity, it's equity, and it's inclusion. But so that's the mindset. What do we think about that? Do we believe that diversity, equity, and inclusion are business issues? Or do we believe that it's a parity or fairness or social justice issue. Because I tell you what, if we believe it's a business issue, like revenue growth or valuation or the cost of poor quality or market share, all these things that we value and know that if we don't do them well, we'll lose in the marketplace. If we can view it as that, as a competitive advantage, any one of those, the D, the E, or the I, then we won't find it so difficult to do. We won't find it to be so subjective woman's equal payday that's all the way in September of the following year. That says that in 2021, white men made so much money, it'll take black women until September of 2022 in order to make the same amount that the men made in one year. It'll take a year and a half or a year and three

quarters for a black woman. Same thing with LGBT, same thing with working moms. Their day, I think, is June or maybe September also. So it's having the policy and understanding, are we paying people the same for the same kind of work? So if you believe it's a business issue and that people will not quietly quit on you and you, that having the great people in your organization is going to help you win in the marketplace, then DE&I won't be such a big deal. We won't be so amazed that the Marlins got a female president, you know, last week or a week before. It won't be a big deal. That's awesome. Yeah. I mean, that's a fantastic perspective when it comes to that. I love this conversation with you. You're just kind of laying it out simply in front of us here.

I mean, folks, let's just call this real and go, okay, how do we get to these benchmarks that we need to in order to understand that we are treating people equally and fairly and with the right intention. So, I mean, it's really, really cool. You wrote a book, Win When They Say You Won't. Tell us, I mean, it pretty much speaks for itself, but tell us, what is your perspective on that statement? Yeah, I, you know, the word they is interesting because there are people who showed me and told me that I would not win. And when you're a person of color, you're a little girl, I call them little seeds of misdirection are given to us. Girls don't do science. Black men can't be hedge fund managers. You know, they all these seeds are planted in us and they seem to be harmless. You know, we don't do, girls can't do basketball, whatever. And they kind of lump people together as opposed to saying that one girl may have a proclivity to science. That one man over there may have a proclivity to the marketplace. And so these seeds of misdirection are planted and they grow up with us and they become these tall trees of what I'll call imposter syndrome that we know is what they call now. And their roots run really, really deep.

And so my book is meant to be an antidote. It's like they poisoned our careers or our passion. They poisoned our purpose. They poisoned our profession. Even when we get to be older and we can escape that imposter syndrome, somehow somebody comes along and says, you know what, you can't do that. And so my book is designed to be an antidote to tell you, you can win when anybody, including yourself, we sometimes do the job of our people that don't want us to win because we, right? We say, oh, I can't do that. So the book is really a how-to book. It's a book to inspire, encourage, empower, and instruct on the four steps that it takes in

order to be able to win. It's what I did. It's what I've seen other people do. I've just been able to systematize it into these four simple steps. Awesome. That's amazing. Will you give us the steps real quick? Oh, sure. The steps are, it's edit is what the steps become in terms of a word, E-D-I-T. And edit means change. So this says change your life, change your how you think, because again, it's your mindset. And then if you change your mindset, you'll change what you do in your expectations and you will change your outcomes. And so the edit, the E is for envision. It's like reimagine a new Daphne, a new position for yourself. I want to learn how to swim.aphne, a new position for yourself. I want to learn how to swim. I want to be a better public speaker. I want to be a senior vice president.

Envision that and reimagine yourself in that light. And I teach you and walk you through how to do that. And then the D is for design. Prepare yourself, create a plan. And it's a risk-adjusted plan. You don't think about what could go only right. You also think as you're planning how to become this SVP, what could go wrong and what do I need to do to mitigate these things that could go wrong? There are headwinds and tailwinds that we talk about in the book. And then after you've created your plan of action, then you iterate it, you experience it, you put it to work. You let people see you talk when you wanted to test your speaking skills. You learn how to get into the pool and learn how to swim,

or you learn how to handle those big, bodacious projects that nobody wants to cover, nobody wants to handle, but you want to handle it. So you go and you experiment and put your thing out there, and you don't quit. You wait. You get feedback from the market and that feedback could be negative. It could be positive, but companies get feedback all the time. They don't cry. They don't quit when the revenue goes down or market shares is taking a dive. They don't quit. They look at that data strategically, not personally, and they find a way to win. They find a way to say, what's the pattern that we're noticing here? And then we say, okay, what do we need to do to tweak our plan? Then we go right back in it. If companies can do that, so can we. That's the iterate. You

iterate, go back and forth, you go back and forth, but you don't quit. Then the T is you've transformed. You didn't swim before, now you can. You were a VP. Now you're an SVP. Or maybe you're halfway there, but you're not in the same place that you were before. You used to wear a size eight shoe. Now you're kind of wearing a little bit bigger shoe. Now you're like a size eight and a half. And so you sit there and you transform yourself. But as you do that, you're also transforming people around you because now you have a new mindset and you're helping them with their mindset. And so the transformation is where you are pushing and pulling. You're going forward yourself to a new place, but you know what? You're pulling people

along with you. And that's what it's all about. Awesome. Everybody, make sure you check out Daphne's book, When When They Say You Won't, available from all of your major booksellers here. And it has some fantastic reviews, by the way. I have it up on Amazon. Thank you. Daphne, this has been such an amazing time with you. You are a really good storyteller, too. I mean, this is fantastic. So thank you for being here. And thank you for all that you have done to really overcome some of these stigmas in life and the challenges that so many encounter. And you encountered those as well.

And you're a great role model. You're a great leader. And this is just a fantastic interview. You're a great friend. So thank you. I've got a question for you that I ask all of our guests. How do you start your day with a win? Well, one of the things that I talk about in the book is my five Fs, the things that

really make us successful. It's our faith, our family, our fitness, our finances, and furthering our career. I start my day with a win by focusing on two of those things, my faith, three of those things, my faith, my fitness, and my family. So I kiss my husband good morning or I call him if I'm out of town. I go to the gym. I don't do a gym at night. I do gym during the morning when I first wake up and I thank God for being alive. Awesome. Awesome. Daphne E. Jones, author, leader, CIO, and I mean, just a killer person. Thank you for being on Start With A Win.

It's so great to have you here. Thank you. And thank you, Mark. I'm going to keep dancing my way off the screen. Hey, thank you for listening to Start With A Win. Hey, if you want more great content, head over to adamcontos.com. There you can find links to show notes. You can get blog posts and other social content, as well as secrets to managing your time,

like the CEO of a multimillion dollar company. So a lot to learn. Head over to adamkontos.com. Remember, until next time, start with a win.