StarTalk Radio - Cosmic Queries – Physics All Around Us
Episode Date: May 3, 2024What would aliens think of our inventions? Neil deGrasse Tyson and comedian Chuck Nice answer fan questions on Maxwell’s Equations, the symmetry of the universe, and the physics around us all the ti...me. NOTE: StarTalk+ Patrons can listen to this entire episode commercial-free here:https://startalkmedia.com/show/cosmic-queries-physics-all-around-us/(Originally released April 12, 2019) Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to new episodes ad-free and a whole week early.
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Coming up on this episode of StarTalk, we dig into our archives and find the physics all around us.
We learn about the periodic table of elements, the asymmetries in nature, solar energy, battery technology, Maxwell's equations, and more.
Check it out.
Welcome to StarTalk.
Your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide.
StarTalk begins right now. This is Star Talk.
I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson, your personal astrophysicist.
I hail from the American Museum of Natural History right here in New York City,
where I serve as director of the Hayden Planetarium.
And today we've got a Cosmic Queries edition of StarTalk with my co-host, Chuck Nice.
Hey, Neil.
Chuck, always good to have you here.
Good to be here.
Tweeting at Chuck Nice Comic.
Yes, and I am the director of parts of my home on certain days of the week.
Even then, only in certain hours.
In certain hours of certain days.
That's all I get.
So I think today is the topic is the physics of everyday life.
Yes.
Yeah, love me some physics of everyday life.
I know you do.
Oh, man.
I've been around you long enough to actually hear you speak on the physics of everyday life,
whether I want you to or not.
You know what's good about learning physics?
Yes.
It's not a satchel of facts.
That's right. To be regurgitated. It is not a satchel of facts. That's right.
To be regurgitated.
It is an understanding of the operations of nature.
That's great.
I was about to say it is actually the understanding of your own experiences.
Yes.
Or even things that are not your experience, things that transcend your experience.
True.
Physics is there waiting for you.
Yeah, yeah.
That's what makes it so cool.
I mean, there's...
But what it means is you don't have to learn every single example of how physics
manifests in the universe. Well, thank God. You can learn the foundational things and then apply
that knowledge to what you see. Yeah. So that's the beauty of it. And that's why physics books
are not the fattest books on the shelf. Accounting books are fatter than the complete works of physics.
Right? Because they get
to change accounting. You can't
change physics. Physics is what
it is. It's what it is and what
it'd be like. What it'd be like is what it'd be like.
But you can change accounting all you want.
There's so many other fields where the books
are just so fat and thick.
Books on human physiology.
You gotta learn every little...
Of course, there are some systems that you learn about.
You know, the circulatory system
and the endocrine system and this sort of thing.
Right.
And that's very helpful for new situations.
But physics is the ultimate example
of learning the basics.
Right.
That then apply to everything.
Stuff you've never even seen before.
And even all of those different systems
actually have some applied physics at work.
Oh, okay.
Let me take you there.
Ready?
Okay, let's do it.
So biology is the extreme representation of chemistry.
Interesting.
Yes.
Give me one second, please.
Biology is chemistry come alive.
Okay.
Now, I just got it.
It just gave me a little light bulb and I got it.
That makes sense.
Right.
Right.
Yes.
Yes.
You can have complex chemistry, but once you talk about life.
Right.
That's biology.
It's earned its own feel.
Absolutely.
Okay.
And life is really a collection of chemical reactions.
Correct.
Have you ever seen the physics desk reference, physician's desk, the PDR?
No, I have not.
It's a zillion pages.
Okay.
And it is every single medicine prescribable in the world, or at least in the West.
Is that really?
Yes.
Wow.
Yes.
And so when a doctor looks back and you don't see what pages they're turning, they're looking
at a PDR.
They're looking at a PDI.
So it's every company's medicine that gives what, you know, what it is supposed to heal, what the contraindications
are, the, you know, the side effects, all of this.
It's in this book.
So all I'm saying is, it's a reminder that we are basically sacks of chemistry.
Yes.
But the point, what I'm getting at is.
Which, I mean, it sounds so derogatory when you say it like that.
Now pass me my vitamin, please.
Hey, listen here, you sack of chemistry.
Yeah, we all take vitamins or some pills for some purpose, most of us.
Or we eat certain foods to get the chemistry in the food.
Absolutely.
You're drinking a cup of coffee right now.
Yes, I am.
Why?
It's having a chemical reaction in my brain.
Correct.
Right.
It turns off a little teeny part of your brain that says, go to sleep.
So there is no understanding of biology without chemistry.
Yeah.
And there is no understanding of chemistry without physics.
Nice.
And there's a kind of audacious statement, which is really nasty, but kind of true.
Okay.
After the laws of physics,
everything else is opinion.
Ooh, damn.
Yeah, yeah.
That's a drop the mic type.
That's a drop the mic.
And it's kind of like...
You know who made that saying up?
A physicist.
Clearly.
In your opinion.
All right, so give it to me.
We solicited these from our fan base.
I haven't seen the questions yet, as usual.
So what do you have?
And of course, we always start with a Patreon patron.
Patreon.
Because if you support us on Patreon financially,
we give you a preference to everything.
I think they get more than that.
It's not just they get their question answered.
There's like a whole list of stuff.
There is.
I mean, you know.
And at what level they get invited to our holiday party.
That is correct.
If you give enough.
Is that right?
Just verify? Yeah. If you give enough money, you get invited to the Star Talk.
If you give a zillion dollars.
Right.
A kabillion.
A bajillion.
A bajillion.
Is that a real word?
That's the biggest number ever.
That's the biggest number.
Bajillion.
Bajillion.
That's cool.
I like it.
If you're eight, that's the biggest number ever.
Bajillion.
My God.
And really, it's like eight.
It's like, you know, there's 16 of them.
Right.
Like, that's to a kid.
It's like my son.
I told my son I was 30.
He was like, you're going to die soon.
Right.
Mind you, I'm like much older than 30.
Why am I lying to my son about my age?
I don't.
Don't trust anyone older than 30.
There you go.
That's it.
There you go.
All right.
So, Renee Douglas from Patreon says this.
Why is the periodic table
of elements
not an exact rectangle?
My OCD will not let this go.
Missing elements or what?
Who cares?
It should be a rectangle.
All of a sudden at the end
she started sounding
like Jerry Seinfeld.
What's the deal
with the rectangle?
Why?
Who are these elements?
Okay, we should call it the periodic irregular table.
Right.
So, I'm with her on this.
There's the urge to want nature to be symmetric in its beauty.
Yeah.
And beauty in its symmetry.
Wow.
That sentence is symmetric.
It is.
Yes, it is.
It is symmetric in a mirrored way.
Okay, so I'll give you an example.
When we were filming Cosmos,
one of the scenes was in a forest in Northern California.
Right.
And I'm looking at the tree.
I'm from the Northeast,
and we don't have California trees here.
Okay. Our trees are kind of raggedy.
Yeah.
Kind of gnarly raggedy.
Yeah, exactly.
Compared to the mighty redwoods and other, you know.
They don't see the trouble that our trees see.
Our trees see a great deal of trouble here.
Our trees are like.
Our trees are grizzled.
They've seen the Northeast issues.
That's right.
They're grizzled veterans of nor'easters and hurricanes and harsh winters.
You talk to a tree in the northeast, it's going to be like,
I'll tell you what I've seen.
I've seen some things.
That's the old tree on the front porch in the rocking chair.
Yeah.
Our trees are like the two trees in the two towers of Lord of the Rings.
You know, just like, I remember a time long ago.
Wait, slow down.
You're talking too fast.
I know.
That's true for those.
For the trees.
For the trees, yeah.
Yeah, Redwood trees are just like.
They're just badass.
It's like, I'm here and nobody mess with me.
Because they get to grow unfettered by anything.
Plus, they have fireproof bark.
Wow.
You try to burn a Redwood, it's like, there you go.
That's sweet. Go on around, you know. Keep going. Keep bark. Wow. You try to burn a redwood, it's like, there you go. That's sweet.
Go on around, you know.
Keep going.
Keep going.
Keep moving.
Right.
Nothing to see here.
That's amazing.
Fireproof bark.
They need to make all of California out of redwood tree bark.
Redwood bark.
Yeah.
Right.
So, here's my point.
Some of the trees, and I'm not a botanist, so I can't identify what tree it is.
The bark had striations that spiraled in one direction around the tree.
Cool.
And I'm thinking, if nature itself were symmetric, that could never happen.
These things are twisting on their way as they grow.
Right.
In one direction and not the other direction, And nothing else was twisting in the other direction.
It means at the molecular level,
you have asymmetries in the foundations of nature.
Nice.
Now, here's something I read.
I'm not a chemist.
I just read this.
Okay.
All right.
The molecule that you taste as spearmint.
All right.
If you took the mirror image.
That's the double mint molecule.
But go ahead.
If you take the mirror image of that molecule,
make that molecule.
Right.
If you write down the chemical formula,
it'll be the same.
Because the chemical formula doesn't tell you
how to build it.
Right.
The spiral's in it.
Okay?
It's just the same number of carbon,
same number of hydrogen, same number of everything.
If you build the mirror image of it and taste that,
it tastes like poop.
No, it tastes like caraway.
Caraway!
Okay.
And so this is an asymmetry in nature.
You don't taste the same thing because of the mirror image of one molecule versus another.
So the universe is full of asymmetries.
And do you know our amino acids
have a handedness to them?
These are the building blocks
of our protein.
Right.
So, there's a left hand
and a right hand.
All amino acids
of all life on Earth
is one handedness.
Right.
Okay?
There is no life
that's the other.
But there's no reason
in principle
why you could not make it so.
Right.
Yeah.
Because it's all,
it would just be,
we're right handed,
it would be a left handed,
just the way it spirals in a mirror. Okay? I mean, the way it spirals versus what it would do Right, yeah. Because it's all, it would just be, we're right-handed, it would be a left-handed, just the way it spirals
in a mirror, okay?
I mean, the way it spirals
versus what it would do
in a mirror.
So this,
it's intriguing
because if you find life
on another planet
and it has the other,
it's called chirality,
then you know
it didn't come from us.
We had nothing to do with it.
We had nothing to do with it
because it's a different handed.
It's a different handedness, right?
Right.
Wow.
So what does this sound?
And what we're not sure about is whether if you eat the other life.
Right.
Because that's all we do is eat other life.
Of course.
Okay.
Yeah.
I mean, if it's not alive and you're eating it, then you're probably going to have a little
trip to the hospital.
Because it's Lego.
Look, the only thing we eat that was never alive is salt.
True.
Okay.
Everything else was once alive or derived from something that was alive.
That is true, that is true.
Right.
Even pepper comes from a seed.
Yeah, pepper was a plant.
It's a seed.
Right.
Interesting.
That's why salt and pepper are not really equal partners.
No, they're not.
Right.
No.
Salt is cheating.
Pepper gave its life to be on that table.
On that table.
Right.
Right, right, right.
Salt just showed up.
It just showed up for the party.
Just like white salt. No, right, right. Salt just showed up. It just showed up for the party. Just like white salt.
No, I'm joking.
What?
That is so white of salt.
Actually, there's black salt.
I got black salt.
I got black salt and red salt.
And there's pink salt, too.
There's Himalayan salt.
Yeah.
And there's Hawaiian salt.
Nice.
There's pink salt.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wait a minute, man.
How racist are you that your salt is black?
Seriously? All right. All I'm saying. That racist are you that your salt is black? Seriously?
All right.
All I'm saying is.
And another asymmetry in physics.
Okay.
Okay.
Do you realize an electron is a positive charge?
Yes.
I'm sorry, negative charge.
Negative charge.
Negative charge.
Okay.
So now watch.
I can draw field lines coming off the electron, and there'll be straight lines coming out.
They call it the electric field lines, and that's fine.
I have a formula that describes that.
Okay.
Electricity and magnetism are two sides of the same coin.
Right.
That's why we have the word electromagnetic.
That's right.
Electromagnetic.
That's why we have that word.
Right.
Okay.
So if things were symmetric,
I should be able to find just a negative pole of a magnet.
Just the same way I have a negative charge on an electron.
But you can't.
You can't.
Because the moment you have a magnet, you got to have two poles.
Exactly.
So, get yourself a magnet.
Bar magnet, horseshoe magnet, I don't care.
There's a plus side and a negative side.
Cut it in half.
Now you have two magnets with a plus and a negative side. Cut it in half. Now you have two magnets with a plus
and a minus side. Cut them in half. You have four magnets, each with a plus and minus side. You
cannot cut off the negative from the positive in a magnet, but you can in electricity. Right. That
shows up in the formulas as an asymmetry in what's called Maxwell's equations. They are not symmetric.
That's awesome. And as a physicist, you've got to get over that
when you first learn his equations.
So getting back to the woman's point, the periodic
table of elements has a remarkable
and profound level of
symmetry in it. The reason
why it wraps around to another row
and certain elements line
up in columns
is because the elements that line up in columns
have the same
mating properties with other elements.
Right. So you can
combine them. Right. So take carbon
for example. We have carbon-based life.
If you're a science fiction fan, you'd
think about silicon-based life.
You ever hear about silicon? Right, yes. Did they just pull that out of
the ether? No.
Silicon sits below carbon on the periodic
table. Direct directly below it.
It makes the same families of molecules that carbon
does. So they're saying, if we're carbon-based
life, why not swap
a silicon atom in with the carbon and make all the
same molecules? And then you'd have life based
on silicon rather than carbon. The periodic
table of elements captures this fact
in its structure and
in its form.
As you get to heavier and heavier elements,
things get more complex.
They get...
And so you have entire groups of elements
that all behave in the same way.
Okay.
So how you can't...
You're going to shoehorn them into one column?
You can't because now they're next to each other.
So you have these things that spread out underneath.
There's the two, so the lanthanate series and the,
so just go back to your periodic table,
you'll see these two rows of elements
not sitting in with the other rows of elements.
And we're still discovering elements.
So.
And sometimes creating elements.
Oh, sorry.
And we're creating elements.
We are better at creating elements than nature is.
Right.
Yes. Nice. Yes.
Nice.
That's why, so we've got like 20, what are we up to?
Yeah.
No, about 30 artificial elements now.
Wow.
Look at that.
And they're real.
Yeah.
They're made of electrons, protons, neutrons.
So they're sitting there.
That's cool.
Look at us playing God.
Now, well, that was a great answer to a really cool question.
That was a long answer too.
Who cares?
It was fascinating. That's all. Yeah, so I cool question. That was a long answer, too. Who cares? It was fascinating.
That's all.
Yeah, so I'm saying—
We're about quality, not quantity.
So it's—
If you have issues with asymmetries in nature,
then you're in the wrong universe.
You're in the wrong universe.
Right.
But I'm sure that there is a—
someplace in the multiverse that is just right for you,
Rene Douglas.
Oh, by the way, just a quick thing.
Isaac Newton was a big fan of God.
Yes.
As everyone was in the day.
Of course.
So it's not isolating him in particular in this regard.
Right.
But everybody was a God fan back then.
Right.
So he was.
God, dude.
Such a fan.
Oh, God.
What's up?
Such a fan, dude.
Love your work.
Friend me. That's right. Okay. fan, dude. Love your work. Friend me.
That's right.
Okay.
So, yeah, love your work.
Right.
So, a lot of Newton's writings, he's extolling the beauties of nature as the handiwork of God.
Right.
And in one place, he comments about the beautiful symmetry that the human form takes.
Right.
Left and right.
Yeah.
But he has to then say, but only on the outside. Only on the outside form takes. Right. Left and right. Yeah. But he has to then say,
but only on the outside.
Only on the outside, right.
Right.
Because the inside,
you know,
we have to be like,
Because the inside is all messed up.
Right, yeah.
There's not,
there's some things that are symmetric,
but not really.
Right down to your heart,
where one side is bigger than the other.
One side is louder than the other.
Exactly.
You only have one liver.
Yeah, the inside of your body
kind of looks like Jeff Bezos' eyes.
You know?
What? I'm just saying. It's got like one tiny one and one big one on it. and that's yeah the inside of your body kind of looks like Jeff Bezos eyes you know what
I'm just saying
he's got like one tiny one
and one big one
so your organs are
sort of mildly symmetric
and there's a lot of
his eyes are so weird
and we're not 50% left handed
and 50% right handed
no we're not
right
so there's some asymmetries
going on
that's all I'm saying
yeah
so he had to sort of
accept that
from his praise of God
right
because he assumed that God was that that from his praise of God. Right.
Because he assumed that God was perfect.
That there's a plan.
A plan, and the plan would be symmetry.
Same with the Vitruvian man that is widely associated with Da Vinci.
With the man with his hand sticking out left and right, centered on a circle.
So the idea was your belly button, because if we're divine,
then our form would be geometric.
So your belly button would be the center of a circle
that you could trace with a compass.
And then your arms extend and your legs out
would further trace the circle.
And this was the perfect human form.
Had Da Vinci ever met a human being?
No.
Because there's no one who fits that.
He drew it, but he didn't come up with it.
It long predates him.
Okay.
So from what I've read, it long predates him.
But so my point is when you actually do that with actual people,
belly buttons are not in the same place.
People have longer arms, shorter arms.
Absolutely.
Relative to their height.
Right.
So you want it all to be perfect because you have
a philosophical urge
for nature to be
symmetric and perfect.
Yeah.
And if that's what's
driving you,
history tells us
you're just going to
get the wrong answer.
Right.
So get over it.
So in physics,
we get over it early
when we first learn
that.
Sweet!
I'm Jasmine Wilson,
and I support StarTalk on Patreon.
This is StarTalk with Neil deGrasse Tyson.
Chuck, I love you some physics of everyday life.
Yeah, man. So do I. This is really good stuff. Okay, so what do you have?
Let's jump right back.
And this is
Rafael
Katabak
from Facebook. You've been practicing, Chuck.
Not at all.
You know? What do you have? I mean, it. I'm pretty impressed. Not at all. You know?
All right, what do you have?
I mean, it probably says Smith there
as far as I know.
But anyway,
if we were visited
by a more advanced alien race,
what do you think
they will admire most about humans?
And with regards
to our current scientific knowledge
and understanding,
what particular theory or law
do you think they might disprove?
Oh, interesting.
That is a very, that's a great question.
I'd like that.
So if I may be cynical.
Cynical.
May I?
Only with your permission.
Go, please.
I'm all about, it's rare that I see you actually admit to being cynical.
I think aliens more advanced than us would be impressed how far we've come.
For being such dumbasses.
For being such dumbasses.
You were trying to find out a very diplomatic way.
How far we've come in spite of ourselves.
Exactly.
That's what I said.
I think they would have said, we never thought you'd get there.
Oh, that's hilarious.
Because you've all been on Earth for thousands of, you've had what you call civilization for thousands of years.
Wow.
And it took you 10,000 years of civilization before you even visited the moon.
You could have been there a long time ago.
Right.
But let me just be happy with what you did achieve.
Oh, my God.
Oh, my God.
What?
Imagine if we'd landed on the moon 2,000 years ago.
No, I'm imagining right now.
Imagine if the Romans had rockets.
Yeah.
No, I'm imagining right now, just where we are.
Imagine if the Egyptians said, let's leave Earth.
Well, they did.
They were aliens.
Well, that's true.
They were born here.
They and aliens had a thing.
I saw Stargate.
There you go.
Right, exactly.
They had a wormhole, so we can't really.
But anyway, no, think about it.
Look at all the technology that we have right now.
And if we were to take all of the energy that we put into trying to destroy one another
and keep one another from advancing, and we were to take all of that energy and just pour
it into humanity.
Not just pure physics energy, but intellectual.
Intellectual,
you know,
the political energy that we expend.
A cultural,
political,
and financial capital
that we've used
to destroy one another.
Exactly.
Imagine.
Just take that.
Imagine.
And it was all pointed
at the propulsion
of the human race
in a positive direction.
You want me to quantify this?
Oh, snap.
You ready?
You've been thinking about this.
You ready?
Go ahead.
Okay.
In today's dollars,
you know what it costs to go to the moon in total?
No, I don't.
$100 billion.
Who are you, Dr. Evil?
Dr. Evil.
$100 billion.
Okay, so we went to the moon on $100 billion.
The entire U.S. interstate system is $100 billion.
Wow.
Okay.
$100 billion is one-sixth a single year's allocation
of the military budget of the United States.
All right, that's disgusting.
It just is. Ugh. It just is.
Ugh.
It just is.
You should have never told me that.
No, I used to judge that, but I stopped judging it.
You know why?
How can you not judge that?
I'm going to tell you why.
Please do.
I'm going to tell you why.
Please, you should be judging that.
I'm going to tell you why.
Okay, you tell me, because I'm telling you.
That's deserving of judgment.
I'm telling you.
Okay.
Okay.
What are we, in sixth grade
I know
I said it first
so
where does the budget come from
it comes from congress
where does congress come from
it comes from
we vote for congress
so
so
well what does it mean
what does it mean
that's very funny
that's what I'm saying
as an educator
oh my god
I gotta stop judging it now
that's what I'm saying ugh As an educator, I gotta stop judging it now. That's what I'm saying.
Ugh.
Dude.
The collective representatives
of the electorate
allocates this money.
Oh my God.
And they all agree to it.
Raphael,
you sent us
the most depressing
question ever.
Wait, wait,
but I didn't finish answering
so I think they'll be happy.
Yeah,
we would have been
on the moon
4,000 years ago.
Right.
It would have been
like caveman
next chapter two. Right. We would have been on the moon 4,000 years ago right it would have been like caveman next
chapter 2
right
we would have been on the moon
just going
fire
right
rock
yeah
okay
that's A
B
I think
they would be impressed
with our engineering
ingenuities
okay
so
because that's not the laws of physics now,
because they would know all the laws of physics that we know.
Absolutely.
And then some.
Oh, by the way, the laws of physics is not later shown to be false.
When we demonstrate a new theory of the universe,
it's because it has been experimentally verified multiple times
by competing factions, and we say, this is how it is.
We're moving on from here.
Okay.
What can happen is you have a deeper understanding
of the world that encompasses
this smaller understanding that you have that works.
That can happen.
It happens all the time.
Right.
All of Newtonian physics got subsumed
into Einsteinian physics.
Right.
But Newton is not all of a sudden wrong
in all the regimes in which it was tested.
So, I think they'll say, not that you're wrong, oh all the regimes in which it was tested. So,
I think they'll say,
not that you're wrong,
oh, you think this is the full story,
there's a bigger story.
You got the big bang
starting the universe?
No, we got multiple bangs.
We have higher dimensions.
We got this.
We got that.
And you're just
one little cog
in this much larger wheel.
That would be
highly enlightening for us.
Right.
On a scale of learning and this is
an unheralded point of discovery in the history of my field in the 1920s 1920 the year okay going
into 1921 we did not know where the spiral fuzzy things in the night sky were just spiral fuzzy
things in our galaxy or entire other spiral galaxies in the universe. Wow.
There are people alive today who were alive before we knew
that our galaxy was one of only 100 billion in the universe.
So the idea that you're not alone in some concept,
we've been hit with that multiple times before.
So the astrophysicists, we'd be ready for it.
We'd love it to death.
But there's some people who are happy multiple times before. So the astrophysicist, we'd be ready for it. We'd love it to death. Right.
But there's some people who are sort of happy
with their contained knowledge
of what is and is not.
Yeah, exactly.
But just have to get over it.
Don't make me think about something
other than what I already think about.
Other than what I already can think about
and already can rock.
I've actually accepted this.
This, correct.
Excellent.
So let's go to...
Okay. I'm going to read this anyway.
Kevin Miller from Facebook wants to know this.
Assuming the earth is flat.
That's a big assumption, Kevin.
I just love any question that starts off with,
All right, let's go with it.
Assume the earth, but I know you're the-
Let's follow the reasoning.
One of the things I like about you is that you'll take these and do something with it.
All right.
When the ice melts at the poles, where is all the water going to go?
I have no idea.
Exactly, because the earth ain't flat.
It seemed to me it would spill off the edges.
Right?
I mean, seriously, if the earth were flat, it'd be like a table, you know?
Yeah, you spill some on a table.
What does it do?
It spills off the edge.
Yeah. Unless you build a table. It spills off the edge.
Unless you build a dam.
Ah, so now the earth is not flat.
It's more like a pie dish.
Oh, yeah.
Nice. It's got edges to it.
It's got edges.
And beyond there be demons.
Why do I feel like Jack Sparrow right now?
And beyond there be demons now? Beyond their limits.
Beyond their limits.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, there you go, Kevin.
There you have it.
All right.
It's a pie plate.
It's a pie plate, bro.
That's all we can do for you.
Let's move on
to Nader's
197872 from Instagram.
How far away would a black hole
have to be
in order for our solar system to
fall into it?
I also
have another question. Why are
you so awesome? I love
StarTalk and you are just one of my
heroes.
That last part was for me.
Thank you, Chuck.
Yeah, no.
Did he really say that?
Yeah, I'm serious.
He was talking to you.
I was joking.
Yes, he's saying you are one of my heroes and I really love StarTalk.
Okay, no, we appreciate that.
And let the record show that you were reading that question whether or not he appended it with that sentence.
Well, he didn't write it to me.
So you don't know the questions.
We don't boost questions
up just because you're not saying nice things well we do boost questions up if you're saying
nice things about chuck nice because i'm the one who's reading the damn questions
so thank you for those kind words okay uh the now the question uh after the kind or actually
preceding the kind words was how far away would a black hole have to be in order for our solar system to fall into it?
I think what he means is instead of how far,
how close would it have to be?
Same thing.
Same thing.
So that's not how black holes work.
Right.
Okay?
Black hole is not some giant sucking machine.
Like my career.
What?
Oh, I'm sorry.
I'm laughing at my own pain.
We love you, Chuck.
Okay.
Chuck, you're a hero on our podcast.
No matter what else is happening to your career, I don't know.
No matter how far in the toilet your career may be, Chuck.
Did you get booed off this comedy stage last night?
No, actually, a really good show.
A good show?
Very nice.
Very nice.
So anyway, it doesn't work that way. Should a comedian be the one who judges whether good show. A good show? Very nice. Very nice. So anyway, it doesn't work that way.
Should a comedian be the one who judges whether the comedian has a good show?
No.
Yes, the comedian is always the one who judges.
Okay.
Because here's the great thing about being a stand-up comic.
Okay.
Oh, you know.
Yeah, you always know.
And you can laugh.
You know.
And I love young comedians because they get off the stage and they immediately lie to
themselves.
You know, and they get off the stage and they look at you and they go,
yeah, so that felt good, right? And I'm like,
why are you asking me? It felt good.
It felt good. You don't need my
permission for it to feel good. You know you suck.
You know you suck.
What is your problem? Chuck,
the mentor.
No wonder
no one comes to me for advice.
Alright, anyway, back to Nader's 19872.
Black holes are not some giant sucking machine.
Okay.
So they have a gravity commensurate with their mass.
Like anything, you have gravity.
Yes, I do.
The moon has gravity.
Earth has gravity.
The sun has gravity.
Anything with mass has gravity.
Anything with mass or energy has gravity
because energy and mass are the same.
Same.
Ah, that's right.
So you can ask,
how much mass does the same. Ah, that's right. So, you can ask, how much mass does
the black hole have?
And if it has a planet's
worth of mass, it could just hang out
in our solar system like another planet.
If it has a star's worth of mass, it might
accrete planets to orbit
it. If it has... Interesting.
So... It could even have a
galaxy's worth of mass. A galaxy's worth. We have
a supermassive black hole in the center of our galaxy.
So, you don't want to get too close to it
because there are places where there are no longer stable orbits.
And then you fall in.
And then you fall in.
But you can calculate what that distance is,
and it's not too hard to stay away.
Right.
It's not that hard.
Right.
If we turn Earth into a black hole,
it would be like the size of a plum, last I calculated.
So, and the moon would still orbit it?
The moon wouldn't care.
It wouldn't fall in.
It wouldn't care.
It's only responding to the mass and the gravity that it...
So what makes black holes interesting is that you can get really close to them and get ripped apart and spaghettified.
You can't get closer than Earth's surface to Earth's center of gravity.
Okay?
You'd have to shrink Earth to get closer to it.
Shrink it down to a plum.
Now you've been spaghettified.
Wow.
So all the interesting stuff that happens with black holes
is because you can get really close.
Otherwise, you're hanging out where you've always been.
You are perfectly safe.
Don't have nightmares about it.
It doesn't do anything to this?
Like it never...
Now, if I had Earth as a plum if i took another planet take venus made a black hole and brought it here
right and let go it would fall through the earth and eat earth swiss cheese style as it bounced
back and forth and it would systematically dine upon all the physical contents of the earth until
earth plus venus became one a big right So you'd have the merging of those two.
Yes, and it'd become like the size
of an orange or something.
So the black hole would actually increase
in size itself.
Physically.
The physical black hole would increase in size
if you would emerge two black holes.
It turns out to be linear with mass.
So a black hole that's twice the mass
will have twice the diameter.
Wow.
It turns out, if you do the math.
Okay, cool.
And the diameter is the diameter of the event.
Eventualized, right.
You've got to say that.
That sounds cool.
Here we go what degree can you do more with a physics degree or a mathematics degree physics degree really now are you are you biased some things are objectively true in the world
let's say it another way in spite of what it might seem like
to your parents
if you choose to major
in physics or math,
both of them are highly employable
by people who know
and understand
the brain wiring
that emerges
for having done so.
Absolutely.
Okay?
Yes.
Mathematicians and physicists
are problem solvers
and engineers are problem solvers and engineers are problem solvers right
they can see problems in ways others have not and it's just that physics has more places
to plug into more operations of society than does a mathematician that's all but
in either case you don't see either mathematicians or physicists as on the street.
Begging.
Begging.
Right.
Right, right.
Exactly.
You'll find artists.
You'll find musicians.
We'll calculate for food.
That's right.
We'll cite digits of pi.
Right.
No, no.
For pi.
For pi.
I haven't had pi all day.
Pi all day.
How many digits can you do?
For pie.
I haven't had pie all day.
Pie all day.
How many digits can you do?
So, it's a reminder that there's certain professions that fundamentally plug in to civilization
and others that become a part of civilization
because we choose it to.
So, we embrace music.
We embrace art. The kind of art that
is not otherwise self-sufficient. So I'm not
talking about pop music. I'm talking
about orchestral music
that generally
is performed in institutions that
require funding.
And that funding normally comes from someone
who gives a great deal of money to
make that happen because it can't sustain itself a great deal of money to make that happen.
Because it can't sustain itself through the appetite of the public.
Yet, the city in which you find those offerings of art boasts that they have those offerings of art.
Right.
It's in the catalog.
We have this Philharmonic Hall.
A Boston Philharmonic.
And we have this art museum.
And we have all these institutions.
That's what makes us a cosmopolitan destination correct so it's an interesting difference that we have art and science in the same phrase i went to the college of arts and sciences at the university of whatever with the
arts and sciences go way back as a paired thing we have leonardo as the epitome right actually
combining the two when they combine two it's one of the greatest examples of that. So, I'm just saying a society has to want to embrace its artists in order for
them to manifest as a fully expressed, employed community. Whereas, financial forces can drive
your interest in having an engineer or a physicist on staff. Absolutely. For example,
having an engineer or a physicist on staff.
Absolutely.
For example, Mayor Bloomberg.
Yes.
Former Mayor Bloomberg.
Yes.
Okay.
Successful businessman.
Very much so.
Very much so.
Billionaire.
Multi-billionaire.
Like a real billionaire, not like some other people.
Some other people you earn.
I'm very rich.
Very, very rich.
Normally when people tell you they're very rich, they're me.
They ain't.
Right.
They're me. Like, yo, don't look at that. I'm very rich. So here people tell you they're very rich, they're me. They ain't. Right, they're me.
Like, yo, don't look at that. I'm very rich.
So, here's the thing.
When he built this company, he could have hired MBAs who
know their business, but that's not who he hired.
Who did he hire? He majored in
physics and engineering at
Johns Hopkins University. Okay.
He hired mathematicians,
physicists, and engineers. Wow wow and would teach them the
business side of the world but he needed people who problem solvers who would go with gnashed teeth
right and attack a problem they've never seen before right and my wife was one of those earliest
employees she has a phd in mathematical well i knew that i didn't know that she worked for
bloomberg yes early when she was there, Bloomberg had 100 employees.
Oh, my God.
Yeah.
She got more money than you.
Now I know.
So she was early in on that
and he recognized
what she could bring to the table
as others that she worked with.
That's so cool.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
So go for it.
Go, go, go, go.
No, either.
Do either.
If you're going to pick one of those,
pick the one you love and do it.
And do it.
Okay, cool.
And you'll be better at it than others
and people will beat a path to your door.
All right, give me some more.
Okay, here we go.
Why haven't there been a greater number of advancements
on solar energy given it's literally
a constant free source of energy.
Yeah, the source of the energy is free,
but the devices to convert it into useful forms,
given the economics of what is going on right now,
has not yet reached that tipping point.
So right now, sort of the wealthy class that has the luxury of being green
without regard to its impact on your pocketbook.
They're the first adopters of the electric cars and the electric this
and the solar panels and the like.
What is missing from the equation is how much our tax money
throughout the last century has subsidized the oil and gas industry.
There you go.
Okay, we built the roads, bought the car that now we put their gas in. They didn't build the industry. There you go. Okay, we built the roads,
bought the car that now we put their gas in.
They didn't build the roads.
That's right.
Okay?
So the question is,
can and should society subsidize the solar energy universe
in the way we have subsidized
all the rest of the fossil fuels industry?
Yeah.
And in doing so,
would that tip the economics in the favor of solar panels and solar energy?
That's a great point, man.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
By the way, that was George Xenophantos, who actually...
Love that name.
Xenophantos.
Oh, man.
And by the way, yeah, tan, getting a tan is free.
Solar power is not.
Yeah, so the sun's energy is basically limitless
but the
also
you have to be able
to transport energy
move it from
where it is
to where you need it
and solar power
exists when the sun
is out
and it's
daytime
you know
so
where you're getting
your energy at night
so you gotta be able
to store the energy
so battery technology
is still
is a century behind
other technologies
so there's still some but when you see Yeah, so battery technology is still a century behind other technologies.
So there's still some... But wouldn't you see a proliferation of new battery designs
and an improvement in battery life
if you were to see the same burgeoning of solar power?
I think one would drive the other.
Possibly, except we already have a huge demand for batteries.
We're using more batteries today
than ever before.
This is true.
It used to be,
I need a battery for my motor car.
And so you go buy the battery
and then the battery would leak
or it would run out
or you leave it on.
The buying of batteries
was a major thing in the day.
Now, anybody's house
has 30 batteries laying around.
That's true.
Okay?
And the batteries last longer than ever
and our machines, our devices that use batteries...
Use them more efficiently.
Use them more efficiently.
Right.
Exactly.
So batteries...
We think batteries are improving at a higher rate
than they actually are
because the demand, the energy demand...
The energy demand for...
Even our flashlights are LEDs.
Exactly.
Which means that they're using much less juice.
Yeah, exactly.
Wow.
Okay.
Well, listen, man. I can only hope that, George,
that what you want to see actually happens.
Yeah, yeah.
And so, like I said, it's an economics thing.
Right.
So the day that economics tips,
everybody will have solar panels on every horizontal surface in their life.
It'll happen practically overnight because that's how these things work.
And in a free society,
there's a limit to how much you can beat someone on the head
to get them to spend more money for something
that's almost as good or not quite as good
as what they already have.
Right.
Or even if it's a little better,
but if they can do it cheaper.
So most people want to save the buck.
That's true.
Yep.
That's why I don't mind that.
Right now, you can't give away an incandescent bulb.
No, you can't.
You can't.
Because they cost you more money.
I mean, if you're smart enough to know what you have.
No, no, no, no.
So incandescent bulbs, no, I think they're cheaper than a thing.
But if you do the math on it, they ultimately cost you more money.
Exactly.
And you got to throw them away.
And they get hot and everything.
Well, they're really a heat source,
not a light source.
Correct.
They give off more infrared
than they do visible light.
That's correct.
Yeah, yeah.
I think I learned that
from you.
I'm just,
that's how long
we've been working together.
They're primarily
a heat source.
Yeah, they're primarily
a heat source.
Yeah.
All right.
Here we go.
Marco Blackwell
from Facebook
wants to know this
with the advancements
of science.
Has there been
any attempts
to change any of the established rules, science. Has there been any attempts to change
any of the established rules, laws of physics, laws of motion, thermodynamics, et cetera? Or is
it once that it's a law and it's established that it just cannot be changed? So in other words-
You were like 10% Captain Kirk on that one. I know.
Just saying.
It just cannot be changed.
Tell me, Spock, what is it with the laws of thermodynamics?
Once, once... Okay, in the old days, we used to call them laws.
Back in the 19th century, classical...
The pinnacles of classical physics.
Newton's laws of motion, the laws of thermodynamics.
20th century, we've loosened the word law.
We don't use the word law anymore.
Not because they aren't laws.
Right.
Just because we're a little more candid about the fact that what we say is a fundamental property of the universe
may be a small part of a bigger understanding of the universe.
Right, exactly.
Whereas law implies, there we go.
But what we are discovering that is experimentally verified
is not later shown to be false
and this is a misconception
that so many people have
they say oh
there's a theory of
quantum theory
that means we won't
it'll be different
no
it is working baby
right
we got this
okay
there's still some other things
we can understand about it
there's still some frontiers. It may
plug into a larger understanding,
but the quantum theory
that we have established, experimented
on, and works,
we are good to go. So
no, it does not change. It only
expands. Aha! There's
the rub. Yeah, exactly. It expands.
Our understanding can
expand on that understanding.
Right.
But it doesn't swap out that understanding
once it has been experimentally verified.
And at that point, it elevates to the level of theory.
Right.
So that's why I'm trying, I may lose this battle,
but I'm trying to get people to not say,
when they say, I have a theory about,
no, you have a hypothesis.
Right.
Okay.
And it's probably not even a hypothesis.
You have a feeling.
Right, right.
You have a theory.
No, Einstein had a theory.
You got a hypothesis.
Exactly, right.
Because a hypothesis...
Yeah, if you have a feeling,
that's another level.
You got a feeling.
You got a feeling.
Because people say,
I have a hypothesis.
And I'm like,
really, is it educated?
Have you really thought it through?
Have you really thought it through?
Because that, yeah.
Okay, we've got two minutes left.
What do you got?
Alright, here's one.
This is Haney. You laugh in advance of the question. That's embarrassing for the person who asked
the question. I'm not laughing at the question. I'm just
laughing at that. Okay, I'm laughing at the question.
Haney
Larm says this.
From where? From Instagram. Okay.
What causes thunder?
Thunder.
Very good.
I know, but it just seems so weird to ask Neil deGrasse Tyson.
Why?
Because you're an astrophysicist.
It's physics, dude.
It is physics, but I'm just saying,
there's so much that you are associated with
in terms of your expertise.
Maybe this person knows everything else.
And it's the only gap
left in their knowledge.
Oh, sure.
So, yeah, right.
Yeah.
They know all about
redshifting,
but they don't know
what thunder is.
Okay.
Okay, by the way,
I am not trying to
disparage you,
Lauren, at all, okay?
All right.
I mean, Haney.
That's his name, Haney.
All right.
What is thunder?
Here you go.
Okay?
So, during a thunderstorm,
a rainstorm,
a vigorous rainstorm,
water falls out of the clouds.
And generally those water droplets
have a net charge associated with them,
a net negative charge.
Okay.
So it is separating negative charges
out of the cloud
and putting it in the ground.
All right.
There's a limit
to how much of that you can get away with
before the charges say, we want to rebalance we need more charge no we want to un we want to uncharge
uncharge right okay you are stripping negatives from positives and that's not how they want to be
right okay they want to be balanced they want to be balanced so this builds up enough imbalance, and it says, I'm coming back to you, Elizabeth.
Elizabeth, I'm coming to join you, honey.
I'm coming back.
I'm coming to untarge.
Okay.
So those charges rise up.
Right.
And they come out of the ground, and they create a visible arc of light that we call lightning back up to the cloud.
Okay.
So all lightning is either cloud to cloud or ground to cloud. Right. It's not cloud to cloud. All visible cloud. Okay. So all lightning comes from the ground. Cloud to cloud
or ground to cloud.
Right.
Ground to cloud.
It's not cloud to ground.
All visible lightning.
Okay.
So up comes this
very hot,
extremely hot
arc of light.
Arc of light.
Okay.
It is so hot
that when you open
and look into it,
your face melts.
It's beautiful.
It's beautiful. It's beautiful. It's beautiful.
It's beautiful.
Okay.
Oh, God.
We are such nerds here.
Such, such Raiders nerds here.
Okay.
So.
So it's so hot.
It is so hot that the air, the air catastrophically expands.
Interesting. That's what happens in the cartridge of a expands. Interesting.
That's what happens in the cartridge of a bullet.
Right.
It gets hot.
That's why it makes a bang.
And it expands catastrophically.
The bullet comes out the side.
The shell drops to the ground.
Right.
Okay?
So anytime you rapidly expand, rapidly heat air,
that's how a bomb works.
Right.
It rapidly heats air.
That's how the nuclear bombs work.
You rapidly heat the air. The air knows only to expand catastrophically at that point, and it's a bomb works. Right. It rapidly heats air. That's how the nuclear bombs work. You rapidly heat the air.
The air knows only to expand catastrophically at that point,
and it's a shockwave.
Right.
A shockwave.
So it's not just, I'm getting louder.
No, it's boom.
Right.
And it's that expanding air that you then hear as thunder.
After the lightning.
After the lightning.
Right.
And it moves at the speed of sound. Which means the lightning. After the lightning. Right. And it moves at the speed of sound.
Which means the lightning you always see first.
Okay, so I forgot.
Was it seven seconds a mile or something?
I don't know.
Some number of seconds per mile.
So you can count how far away the lightning is and how far away that thunderclap was from
you.
And that lets you know how close the storm is.
By the time delays.
I saw a documentary once.
Uh-huh.
And he's very concerned about the accuracy
of the thing
and he had a thunderstorm
out in the distance
and you heard the lightning
exactly with the thunder.
So at the end,
the filmmaker was there
in the room.
I said,
why did I hear the thunder
exactly timed
with the lightning?
I first said,
do you care about accuracy
in your documentary?
Of course, of course.
Accuracy is everything.
So I said,
why did the light?
Oh, well, we shifted the sound
because it was too weird to watch them.
Right, it's too weird to have them.
It looks like it's out of sync.
It looks like it's out of sync.
That's because it is out of sync, dude.
Because it is out of sync.
Nature made it out of sync.
You know what's really cool?
If you go see a, well, a shuttle launch.
Right.
Go back in time.
I was going to say, yeah.
Well, watch any launch.
Any launch, okay.
That's a catastrophic
heating of the air
it's thunderous
and
the closest you can get
if you're a civilian
is like three miles away
so you just see this thing
take off
and it's
total silence
it's total silence
and you see the shock wave
the front wave
of the sound
move
this is Florida
so there's a lot of water around.
So you see this ripple moving towards you and birds coming up.
You still don't hear anything.
It's still silent.
Then you hear as it comes to you.
So it's just fun to watch the sound come to you.
Nice.
It's just a fun thing to do that.
But anyhow, so that's what thunder is.
And because the
arc is not straight a straight line right it can bend it'll take the the most electrically
expedient way back to the cloud makes sense it's not always a straight line right it could be
because it's wetter here and water absorbs conducts electricity better than dry air does does okay so um so what you have here is you if there's angles to the lightning strike
it's possible for you to be at the focus of two of those angles so in other words if there's a
straight segment off to your right and a straight segment off to your left, then you have sound coming to you from two different directions.
Ooh.
And if they hit you at the same time, you get the snap,
that crack of the thunder.
Like it sounds like a paper tearing or the sky is tearing.
It's an extra magnification of the sound.
Because you get multiple sound paths coming to you at the same time.
Oh, I love it.
Rather than just one, one.
It's like.
Yeah, yeah.
That's this, that, that.
All these different angles coming to you at different times.
Some of them hitting you at the same time.
Cool.
Chuck, we got to end it there.
Oh, man.
That was a good one.
Dude.
Always great to have you, man.
It's always good to be here.
Love you, man.
Love you too, man.
Love you, Chuck.
Love you, Chuck. You've been listening to be here. Love you, man. Love you, too, man. Love you, Jack. Love you, Jack.
You've been listening to, possibly even watching, StarTalk.
I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson, your personal astrophysicist,
and this brings an end to our physics of everyday life, Cosmic Queries.
As always, I bid you to keep looking up. Thank you.