StarTalk Radio - Cosmic Queries: Primate Evolution

Episode Date: October 19, 2014

Paleoanthropologist Dr. Ian Tattersall is back to help Neil deGrasse Tyson and Eugene Mirman answer fan questions about where primates came from, and where we’re going.Read more and listen to the full show at: http://www.startalkradio.net/show/cosmic-queries-primate-evolution Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to new episodes ad-free and a whole week early.

Welcome to StarTalk, your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. StarTalk begins right now. This is StarTalk. I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson, your personal astrophysicist. In studio is Eugene Merman. Eugene. Hello. You're a funny guy, Eugene.

Thank you. Anybody ever tell you that? I've heard it occasionally, mostly my mom, some people on the web. You're extremely knowledgeable as well as likable. A couple of people on the web. Today we're doing cosmic queries. Cosmic queries themed to evolution. Yeah.

Evolution. Now, stars evolve, the universe evolves, but that's generally not what people are going to be asking us about. No. So I did not want to do this alone. I got to get back up on this. So I combed the holes of the American Museum of

Natural History and found one of its leading evolution experts. And he's a paleo evolutionary paleoanthropologist. Paleoanthropologist. Something like that. Ian Tattersall. Ian, welcome to Star Talk. Hello, thanks. And thanks for joining us

for our Planet of the Apes show. That was good to have you on there. Oh, that was fun. And now we can take it to a new place, finding out all about evolution and humans and all the like. Ian, you've written 20 books in your life. Would you start when you were six? No, I've just been trying to catch up

for the last 30 years. All right. 20 books. And your latest one, How We Became Human. What was that? Did I get that right? The latest one published was called Masters of the Planet, about how we became human. Trying to explain how the human species emerged.

How we emerged. Okay, I might have some questions about that as we go on. But what we do for Cosmic Queries is we solicit questions from our fan base. It's Twitter and Facebook and wherever else on our website. And I've never seen the questions. Ian certainly hasn't seen the questions. No. Eugene, you have plucked these from the ether.

I have. Go for it. All right. Levi Matamanowik wants to know. Okay. If human evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys? It's a classic creationist argument, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, why are there still monkeys if humans evolved from monkeys?

Yeah, Ian, we got you there, Ian. Well, humans didn't evolve from monkeys. Otherwise, it's perfectly correct. We have a common ancestor. About 30 million years ago, monkeys went their way and we went ours. And then something like 10 or 12 million years ago, the orangutan went its own way. And we continued on our way along with the ancestor of the apes of the other apes. Right.

And eventually differentiated about 7 million years ago. So what's the last ape we split from? The last ape we split from was the common ancestor of the bonobo and the chimpanzee. Oh. No. And then they were like, we're going to be awesome chimpanzees, and we were like, we'll be people. Yeah, basically. Basically.

But why didn't those chimps realize it's much more fun to be people? Maybe it isn't. Maybe it isn't. It would be actually a lot more fun to be a chimpanzee if there weren't any people around. Yeah, but that that there are, it's definitely more fun to be a person. Right now, I would say that the advantage is with us. Yes. For now.

We only have ourselves to blame, at least. But we saw the movie. It's only just for now that the advantage is human. It's true. Next one, Eugene. All right. Lance Elliot wants to know, beyond natural selection, we also have artificial selection, such as what we've been doing to dogs for centuries.

Does selective breeding do the same as evolution faster or not at all? And if it does cause evolution faster, could we possibly selectively breed chimps until they reach intelligence? Ooh. Yeah. Yeah, why aren't we doing to chimps what we're doing to dogs? Yeah, and creating super chimps that we can murder us. Yeah, we already have ourselves. And I think that's probably enough for us to have to deal with right there. Why you would want to turn a chimpanzee into a human being when human beings are already out there really messing up the world. What's the difference between buying a cake and making a cake?

You can see the fun. Well, I suppose. No, we're not turning chimps into humans. We're turning chimps into smart chimps. Yeah. Turning chimps into smart chimps. People have been trying to do things to teach chimpanzees language. Turns out that chimpanzees can learn a lot of signs.

They can manipulate symbols in their minds. They can add them up anyway. But they just don't manipulate information the way we do. They have another way of. By the way, Ian, neither are wolves cuddly lap creatures, but we turn them into, we turn wolves into cuddly city dogs that sit on your lap during dinner. So why can't, why aren't we doing that to other animals, to chimps? You know, I think dogs basically domesticated us you know dogs uh dogs dogs are basically uh the uh the victims of their own their own personal kind of relationship with human beings uh chimpanzees aren't that way meaning dogs decided they could get food easier if they just hung out with us then hunted and didn't bite us and didn't bite us

that's basically and chimps are like we can get food easier if we stay away from people. Exactly. Exactly. Next question. All right. Elad Avran wants to know, do you- Are you doing your best

to pronounce these people's names? I don't, I'm not sure. Oh, how would you pronounce Elad Avran? Okay, go on.

I feel like I am. All right. I mean, it's spelled J-E-F-F. No. Go. Elad wants to know, do you think it's appropriate to say that our technological

advancements are part of our evolutionary path? Did we change or cheat evolution by enhancing our lives with technology? Or is the mere fact that we are able to invent that technology a part of our evolution? I'm with... What's his name again uh elad

i'm with elad on this but we we are humans we are fleshy things and we create skyscrapers and subways and airplanes and spaceships so that's our world i think elad has a really good observation here and i think that basically we have a long, long history of biological evolution. But I think right now all the action is on the cultural level. It's on the technological level. I don't think we're going anywhere as biological creatures. But, boy, we're having a hard time keeping up with our own technology. Yeah, but we've got people in the labs stirring our genome.

Why isn't that just right on the next headline? You can stir up the genome all you want, but you need to keep it inside a separate population. I mean, you can get into some pretty morally hazardous scenario. What you're saying is you can mess with the genes, put them on an island, and let that gene propagate, but this is an immoral

experiment. Like the Truman Show. Like the Truman Show. There you go. Alright, next. We you go. All right. We've got like 30 seconds. You got a quick one? Well, Philip Verossi has a, does technology affect or hinder evolution

since we as a species are able to protect our weak who may host... Great question. Yeah. People who would have otherwise died out on the Serengeti, we keep alive until they're 80. What's up with that? Yeah.

I think basically we are... Noi. We keep alive until they're 80. What's up with that? Yeah. I think basically we are... No time. We'll be back when we come back to StarTalk. We're going to find out the morality

of keeping weak people alive when we return to StarTalk Cosmic Aquaries. Eugene, thanks for being here. Ian Tattersall, my friend and colleague, world-famous monkey guy. Yeah. Monkey guy? Paleo-anthropologist.

Call me a lemur guy. Oh, lemur. He studies lemurs. Oh. In case you didn't know. Everything we know about lemurs is from the movie Madagascar, just so you know. Yeah. Everything he does. Everything he knows.

And I haven't even seen the movie. Right, right. So this week, we had a cliffhanger here. Yeah. So Philip Vasari basically cliffhanger here. Yeah. So, Philip Vasari basically is like, why do we keep weak people alive? Yeah. So, we're interfering with evolution by bringing the miracles of modern medicine to keep people alive that would otherwise be dead or enable people to procreate who would have otherwise been impotent. Well, you know, as long as we're able to do it And we're able To afford to do it

What difference Is it going to make We can compensate For some basic Biological problems So we're rising Above the limits Of biological evolution

And as soon as We cease to be able To do that Selection will take over And we'll go back To the status quo Yeah That's a

Pretty straight answer Also some of those people Might end up being really great musicians. You never know. It's worth it. It's true. It's true. Okay. Okay.

Thank you. Cedric wants to know. Does Cedric have a last name? Nothing goes by you? Yeah. Avila. Cedric Avila. Okay.

Go. Cedric Avila probably wants to know do you think that the evolution of technology is a continuation of our biological evolution that is another really good question uh yes it is uh in a sense because it's biologically enabled um i think our biological evolution as long as we're a huge population like we are today, is not going anywhere. But you can see change all around you on the technological scene, and this is where the action is going to be in future. Okay, just to be clear, when you said we're all here together, there's a deep implication there. We're not spawning branches of ourselves that could then

speciate differently. We're all interbreeding so we're we're in this together in the same sandbox totally is that a fair characterization absolutely so because of that what what can we do for ourselves we now evolve our technology exactly okay all right cool all right cool ian ian knocking them out fernando sores wants to know in current human populations a clear clear selection pressure isn't... Fernando Soares? What does that name say? Where's his name?

Right there. Yeah, Fernando Soares. Okay. I thought maybe you put some accent in it. Help the guy get Fernando... What's his question? Go. What's his question?

Sorry. No, Neil. How would you pronounce S-O-R-S? I'm oh interesting okay I might say sort of Fernando sort of you might okay but I go I'm pretty sure he's from Jersey anyway from Jersey all right all right anyway in current human populations the clear selection pressure isn't observed for certain genotypes over others. Most people can leave offspring. How will this affect human evolution? Well, as I was just saying, I think it means that we're not going anywhere biologically,

that essentially we're static biologically until demographic circumstances change. But meanwhile, there's a lot going on in the cultural sphere to keep us amused. So you're saying the X-Men franchise isn't totally realistic? Totally unrealistic. Wait, wait, wait, wait. So what that says is because we all interbreed and we have airplanes to do it all around the world, the next time we –

That's why we made airplanes, to fly around having sex. We didn't want – there was no branch of the human species unmated with. Exactly. As soon as you have the airplane, everything possible happens. Exactly. But you also spread disease faster at jet speed. But so it means if we speciate, it's going to be because we send colonies to Mars

or on generational ships to other star systems. Well, you're not going to like this because I think, yes, theoretically, you could send a colony into Mars, which was small and genetically unstable, could incorporate innovations and could speciate. But they'd be so far away that they would have no relevance at all to what was going on on Earth. What do you mean? Mars is a long way away. Yeah, but what if they came back? Wait, wait, wait. Ian, that's no different from Australia

breaking away from its other mother continent and generating these weird marsupial creatures that you don't find anywhere else on Earth. Same difference. Yeah. We weren't around to see those strange marsupials either until, of course, our Aboriginal Australians got there and made them all extinct in a hurry. The fact is that we are here on Earth and we are on this planet.

And as you say, we're all in it together. You send out a colony to Mars, it's so far away. That's what they said about Australia. Australia. Okay, so in 100 years as a wormhole, I get to Mars for lunch. It's not a convincing point to me. When you can get to Mars for lunch, that'll change the rules.

But right now, how long does it take to get to Mars? A long time. How long in a... The fastest... Nine months. So you could totally go there and have sex. In fact, if you had sex and food there, you'd have a kid. You'd have nothing much else to do on the way there.

It's true. Well, you could bring Vectrex. You could bring video games. Next question. Nick Mills wants to know, oh, well, what species do you think Eugene Merman evolved from? Do you think they may still exist and evolve into more Eugene Mermans in the distant future? Well, no, let's think of this. I think that's a question for Eugene Merman. Well, no, let's think of this.

I think that's a question for Eugene Mermans. Yeah. Well, let's think of this. He's a comedy guy. He wrote his college thesis on comedy. Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you can study anything now.

Welcome to America. You can do that. And so if he marries a comedian and they have offspring, is like a comedian and they have offspring. Is the genome so randomizable that these kind of experiments are not interesting? The genome is totally unpredictable. It's like the lady who came up to George Bernard Shaw and said, we should get together with my beauty and your brains and it'll be fine, be great. And then he said, well, what about if

the offspring gets your brains and my beauty? So you never know where all this stuff is going. Right. Anyway, yeah, I am very special, so thank you, Nick. Okay, Bill Straight wants to know, I've heard some tribes of primates go to war with other tribes. Some have invented spears and slings. Do we have any way of knowing how long it might take them to move up to more advanced

instruments of war? I like to think of that question as they've got something. Does the next generation of chimps see that and then improve upon it the way we do in our libraries and our shared information? Okay. Well, there are no other primates with spears and slings for a start. So Bill's grade is a little wrong. What some chimpanzees do is pass along. We're primates and we have spears and slings, but start. So Bill's grade is a little wrong. What some chimpanzees do is pass along.

We're primates and we have spears and slings, but they don't have. We are primates, but we are the only primates that do. Okay, so the rest of the primates don't, never had spears and slings. Nope. Okay. Okay.

And they don't have spears because they can't throw? It's interesting. Chimpanzees, for example, they've got, they have elbow, I mean, sorry, shoulder joints, which sort of aim upwards. And although they can actually throw fairly accurately or they can throw something in your direction and it'll pretty much land in your direction, they can't throw very hard. They're very strong, but they can throw things very hard. So even with their long arms, they would never make a good major leap pitcher. They'd make terrible pitchers.

Much better to punch. Chimps are much better punchers. Spike Mike wants to know, can different species of apes interbreed, and if so, will their offspring be fertile? I am asking because I worry about the bush family.

I wanted him to say I'm asking for a friend. Basically, can different species of apes interbreed? Well, we all have things that we worry about. Basically, different species of apes today do not interbreed. Can they? Could they? Nobody has tried.

Nobody knows. I think. I'm not sure if anybody's tried breeding bonobos with chimpanzees. They might have interbred in the old days before it was recognized that they were different things in zoos, but I don't know about that. But that would scramble the genome at that point. It would scramble the genome in a minor way. It would scramble the gene down in a minor way. The thing is, would an offspring be fully functional with either parental group?

And the question is, we've got no idea. Okay. The answer is rather. Interesting. So you have two different species. They'd have offspring. And it's a question whether that offspring could mate back with either one of the branches. Yeah, you could be incompatible at many, many different levels.

You might not be able to form an embryo, for example, or you could bring the embryo to term and it wouldn't live, or it could live to adulthood and not be fertile. A lot of genetic landmines in there. Yeah. Interesting. Okay, 30 seconds. Okay. Get another question.

Danny Hughes wants to know, shouldn't other primates have rights? Okay. They're so almost human. Yeah, why don't we let them vote? Or better yet, have an attorney. Why don't monkeys have more apes have more attorneys? There are attorneys that believe that apes should.

You know, attorneys are very opportunistic. But if they need, they need human beings to represent them in any kind of human environment. And so it's pretty hopeless. Okay. When we come back, more's Cosmic Queries. So Dana Hughes asked, shouldn't other primates have rights? But they partially do, actually, right? do they have rights different from other animals legislation in various countries

protecting um animals uh other primates for example there's legislation in this country which has just decreed that they that chimpanzees should no longer be used in medical experimentation and so on so yes in a sense they have rights but rights is a is a human notion and rights are what humans give other animals rather than right and something inherent to them so just to paraphrase what you said in the rights we give chimps is laws that prevent us from killing them yeah that's their right. So we can give them that right, but we can't give them the right to happiness or a house. You could give them a right to a decent existence.

If this was your judgment, it would be a wonderful thing to do. But you can give them rights to things that they cannot themselves conceive of, like to enjoy the metaphysical works of marcel proust or something um i like that you're listening you can't they can do that but they wouldn't even really be able to enjoy uh even a shorter book that's right this is true too i bet they'd totally get into curious george you know that would be the total and they might like the beetles um but plants like the nature might is And they might like the beetles. But plants like the beetles. In nature, mite is right, unfortunately.

They like the monkeys, of course. Oh, yeah. Okay. And human beings are the bullies on the block. Yeah. Next question. Okay, Matt Ellie wants to know, Arthur C. Clarke wrote of primates in space to help with tasks.

Do you see some primates possibly evolving with humans one day to make a home in interplanetary or multi-planetary cohabitation i don't like to answer this one under the bdi uh over here but in fact much uh all all the the roles that are needed in space are much better done by instruments and robots anyway than they are by human beings. Maybe he wrote that before robotics had really taken hold. We don't have monkeys right now doing traffic stops or anything.

Doing anything. So I feel like the same way we don't, we wouldn't fly them into space to power boats. He wrote that after ham flew in those early chimps in the early space age because they you train them to hit some buttons and sure maybe that was his concept of if you were they actually had to hit buttons while they were out there i thought so maybe i don't know i was kidding

i that's what i thought that there was some it would turn on and they'd have to react really but because they're reacting under conditions that a human would then have to react on yeah they're just checking it but But I think you're right. We're way past that. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But he doesn't know it. Poor Matt. No, he doesn't know it.

Arthur C. Clarke didn't know it at the time he posed that question. All right. Next. Okay. Alfred C. wants to know, in Rise of the Planet of the Apes, the primates are exposed to a drug which increases their intelligence, allowing them to be more creative and even speak like humans. In order for this boosted intelligence to pass on to offspring, wouldn't the drug have to affect and

change the primate's DNA? Is it possible for a drug to alter DNA? Well, this is true, and there are lots of drugs out there. Planet of the Apes is true. You've heard it here on StarTalk. There you go. I'm going to start taking Alzheimer's medicine tomorrow. There's lots of drugs out there that will damage your DNA. Oh, really?

There are no drugs available that will have this particular effect on your DNA. Wait, but there are drugs. So you could, with drugs, alter and affect DNA. Theoretically, I suppose you could. Wait, so it would alter your DNA such that you could reproduce with that alteration. So it wouldn't be just a local set of changed genes in your body. Well, look, I mean, your DNA is a very fragile molecule being damaged all the time by cosmic rays, by you know, you name it. So the Fantastic Four is realistic.

So it's the effect isn't realistic. You could's... The Hulk is real. The effect isn't realistic. Spider-Man is real. You could realistically hope to damage your DNA. So it's easy to damage DNA but hard to become superhuman? I would think so. Oh, well, can't have everything. Okay, John Anderson wants to know, why did humans acquire thumbs through evolution

and monkeys were never able to? And is having opposable thumbs the reason why our DNA is 2% different than a monkey's DNA. Wait, they've got opposable thumbs, don't they? Yeah, monkeys have opposable thumbs but they're not opposable in the very precise way that

our thumbs are opposable. Ian is right now tapping each finger with his thumb. So they can't hold a gun, but they could maybe hold a rock or a mug. Could they hold a mug of coffee? They have the power grip. But look at our closest relatives, the apes. Their hands are long.

They're long and thin. The axis of the hand goes straight up the arm. Our hands are totally different. Or stubby things. Or the axis of our hand goes across the palm. And it's a different kind of a hand, and it can do different things collaboratively. And it's something that just happened in our lineage and didn't happen in the lineages leaving the monkeys or. Wait, so what's, is the problem with that the monkeys don't have a space program that their hands can't build things or that they're not smart enough to do so?

things or that they're not smart enough to do so. It's an amazing thing that we actually have brains that want us to go into space at the same time as we have hands that allow us to build instruments. Well, so monkeys want to go into space. They just don't have the thumbs for it. There you go. Is I think the way to look at it. I don't think monkeys want to go into space, frankly. I, you show me a monkey that's really anxious to go into space.

Well, I think I can show you a monkey. The only ones that have been in space are ones that were sent there involuntarily by the Soviets in the 1950s, right? How do you know it was involuntary? Plus, I think there was an episode of Curious George where he went into space.

That's true. I can say that's accurate. I think there was an episode of Curious George where he went into space. I'm pretty sure. You can draw a monkey that wants to go to space. That's for sure. No one's saying you can't do that. When we come back,

more of StarTalk Cosmic Queries, the Evolution Edition. We're back to Cosmic Aquaries. I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson. In studio, Eugene Merman and my friend and colleague, Ian Tattersall, expert on apes and monkeys and lemurs and stuff like that. That's on your business card, isn't it? Yeah.

If I had a business card, it probably would be. Put the lemurs first. Lemurs first. And like I said, everything I know about lemurs is from the movie Madagascar. So I hope you're proud of me for that. Oh man, we're in trouble. I know probably even less. So Cosmic Queries, Evolution Edition, go for it. Okay, Anthony Kelly wants to know, what were the influences in human evolutionary history

that enabled us to develop intelligence and an ability to use tools and control environments in such amazing ways? Yeah, what's up with that, Ian? You know, there is no Nobel Prize in paleoanthropology, but if there was one, whoever could answer this question, especially briefly, would probably win it. Especially briefly would probably win it. It's a very long story of 7 million years of evolutionary change, leading from something that was broadly like a chimpanzee to something that we see around us today. And a lot happened in that short time. I don't even know where to start.

Well, let me ask you this. That's 7 million years, and we go from whatever we were to what we are now in another seven million years can we somehow selectively breed ourselves or take chemicals or stir our genome to become even smarter i think that's unlikely the the the fact is that uh evolution occur evolution change occurs mostly in very small populations. Small populations are genetically unstable. New things can become incorporated in them. Like if you stranded a branch of humans on an island or a continent

and no one interbreeds with them for millions of years. We don't know how long it would take, but in principle, yes, if you have a small population on an island, it's almost certainly going to incorporate evolutionary novelties because these novelties keep on spontaneously appearing because of spontaneous changes in the DNA. But you don't see humans evolving significantly. We won't have wings in, say, 30 to 50 years or a million years. 30 to 50 years. But the fact is that we are now this gigantic population worldwide That Neil's already talked about

And in a population this size It's practically inconceivable You could have the fixation of any meaningful New kind of biological adaptation I got a question I got a question If we have so much DNA in common with all the other life Starting with chimpanzees going down the list

Presumably we have so much DNA in common with all the other life, starting with chimpanzees going down the list, presumably we're vertebrates, so we have DNA in common with all vertebrates at some level, correct? You got 60% of your DNA in common with a banana. With a banana. Really? So therefore. So why am I not as delicious? You mean why are you not appealing? Actually, I take it back.

I am as delicious as a banana. Yeah, and appealing. So can I get some props for coming up with that? That was very good. Thank you. That was very good. Thank you. That was – I will –

So, Ian, what I ask is can't you just go into our genome, flick a switch that excites or turns on or off whatever combination necessary to have your offspring have your arms have become wings. Yeah, or have people... If it's all there. If you knew what to do, you'd have to do it in 7 billion people. No, no. I would be happy with five people with wings and four that were bananas. Why didn't you change everyone? Where would you keep them?

Where would I keep four people with bananas? You want to turn people back into bananas? I don't want to turn people a little. I mean, I only found out recently it was possible. So I'd like to try it just on one person. Holy moly. Or one person

that hasn't been born yet. I'm assuming nobody wants to turn their offspring into bananas. We would force them. So Ian, in the old days we had computers and it was called dip switches where you can change the parameters of the calculation.

Right. If you're old enough, you remember that. So if such switches exist in our genes, it's not that you have or don't have the gene. The gene is manifested or not manifested in its operation within you. So in principle, let's turn on the gene that can regenerate limbs that as newts do.

Let's, you know, newts got that. And here we are thinking we're evolved in some special way and we can't do stuff that other animals can do. You know, you don't have a technology to do that right now. We have to worry about this and this one down the line. But right now you can repair genes you can insert genes you can do all sorts of things but you're not going to get a separate population going on its own evolutionary trajectory without isolating it somehow and that would be uh probably unacceptable

to the majority of people yes let's not enslave a banana people. Banana people. And make them have wings and regrow limbs until they destroy us. No, I want a flying banana. That's what I want. I kind of want a flying banana. Flying banana. Now I see how we could do that. That can regrow. We really have solved a lot of stuff here.

It could fly. People would eat it. It would regrow another banana. Did we only get to one question in this segment? Yeah, but it was a long, solid question. Bananas need help this is star talk radio the evolution edition of cosmic queries when when we come back it'll be the lightning round on evolution We're back for the last segment of our Cosmic Queries Evolution Edition. I'm Eugene across the table from me, and Ian is our expert on evolution.

Eugene, you have one last question before we do the lightning round. What is it? Yes, here's a question. What is Dr. Tattersall's opinion on the theory that Neanderthals slowly died off because of competition with Homo sapiens? Ooh, competition. That would be competition for food, or are they just slaughtered? It could be competition for food.

It could be competition for space. It could be competition for anything. But I believe that any chimpanzee would tell you that Homo sapiens is bad news. And I'm pretty sure that any Neanderthal would have told you the same things. So the Cro-Magnon, I guess, were the ones that kept going after that. The Neanderthals were living in Europe and Western Asia until about 40,000 years ago when all by themselves, minding their own business until Homo sapiens showed up. Within 10,000 years, they were completely gone. They were gone.

It was not a coincidence in my view. So they weren't just crossbred and we lost the species distinction. They just, they died. Basically, yes. I think there may have been a bit of Pleistocene hanky-panky going on there. And the latest genomic data seems to indicate a slight amount of interchange of genes as all

the mayhem was happening. That's a new move, the Pleistocene hanky-panky. Yeah, that is. I hope one of your books is called that. You know, that's a brilliant idea. That's a brilliant idea. Wait, wait. So you think they waged war?

Waging war? I don't know. We have no evidence that would. But I can't imagine, knowing how Homo sapiens tends to treat members of its own species, let alone members of other species, I can't imagine that all the encounters between Neanderthals and modern humans were happy ones. Right.

Considering one is dead. Extinct. All right, let's lighten it around. But just to clarify, and they buried their dead, the Neanderthal? They did. They did. And interestingly,

the very first humans to come into Western Europe were the Neanderthals. They apparently didn't. They may have even learned this from Neanderthals. Oh. All right. They may have even learned this from the Neanderthals. Oh. All right. Okay. All right.

We're about to go to the lightning round. We have a bunch of questions left and only three and a half minutes to do them in. Okay. Ian, I briefed you on the lightning round. Uh-oh. Okay. Are you ready? Here we go.

Go. Rachel wants to know, do we know what type of primates humans evolved from? Broadly speaking, yes. Neither apes nor humans but uh something with characteristics of both oh next uh fernando translavia wants to know if we do in fact if we did in fact evolve from monkeys what is the reason we lost all of that hair that they had we didn't actually evolve from monkeys we have a common ancestor with monkeys but i don't think humans actually lost their hairy ancestral hairy cover until they moved out into the savannas about a couple of million years ago so a combination of coats and deserts coats and desert there you go

okay i know enough people with you don't want to wear a coat in a desert there are no hairy humans out there that that question doesn't apply to all okay Okay, next. Okay, Lynn Lipka wants to know why do you think there's a lack of evolution evidence within the fossil record? It takes a lot of work to become a fossil. There's actually a lot. Not everybody can become a fossil.

This is true. You try it. Lightning round. Keep going fast. You won the rest of the answer. The rest of the answer would be we actually have a very good fossil record the answer. It's hard to make a fossil. We actually have a very good fossil record. But it's very hard to make a fossil. What fraction of all dead animals become fossils? That is impossible to say, but way south of 1%.

Gotcha. Next. Dinosaurs died randomly. Since that may not have happened elsewhere, should we adjust SETI for reptiles? Should we just what for reptiles? SETI, the search for extraterrestrial life. Should we be looking for smart lizards? On other planets? That's what I'm assuming the question is.

Oh, he's thinking maybe other planets also had dinosaurs, but they would not have died from an asteroid. Exactly. So they're smart. Who knows what's happening on other planets? They're so far away that we don't know. Let me ask the question differently. If the asteroid didn't come and the dinosaurs were still here, might they have evolved in intelligence such as what humans have? Dale Russell

thought so. You know, he imagined a dinosaur which had become bipedal because many dinosaurs were already bipedal and developed a big brain. Who knows what would have happened? So, maybe. Next, Julian Alonzo wants to know, what is this missing link I've heard about and why is it important?

Well, if it's a link I've heard about, and why is it important? Well, if it's a link, it can't be missing. And if it's missing, it can't be a link. So basically, there you go. Okay. Vivcox wants to know, why could humans not have evolved at different places on Earth rather than one? I love that. Or life in general.

Could life have had more than one genesis around the world it's not impossible that uh that that the the the same things that gave rise to the life that we're familiar with could have happened on multiple occasions it's possible that we had multiple early bipeds but only one lineage survived okay great okay and last one wants to know do you predict designer babies becoming a reality for our species in the next 20 years? In the film Gattaca, that's exactly what it was. They got the best defined by the couple, the best of both genes to design the baby that they wanted. Somebody with enough money could conceivably do it. I don't think you'd find many people approving.

Okay. So, yeah, it's possible 20 years if people become immoral. Okay. Well, they're already immoral. So it's the immoral future that you're predicting Ian, thanks for being on StarTalk Oh my gosh We gotta find a way to do three hours of this Or something with Ian, because Ian is like my man

I would love to Ian is my man from way back Ian, Curator Emeritus At the American Museum of Natural History, thanks for being on Star Talk. It's been a lot of fun. Eugene Merman,

we'll look for you. You're still a character on Bob's Burgers. Yes, absolutely. Unrelenting. Unrelenting. All right, we're good. I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson.

I tweet at Neil Tyson. Find Star Talk on the web at startalkradio.net, on Facebook, and of course, on Twitter. Star Talk is brought to you in part by a grant from the Sloan Foundation. As always, I bid you to keep looking up.