StarTalk Radio - Cosmic Queries: The Space Race

Episode Date: September 16, 2016

What did politics and the Cold War have to do with the space race? On the flip side, how did the Apollo program and landing on the Moon impact us here on Earth? Neil deGrasse Tyson answers fan-submitted questions chosen by co-host Chuck Nice. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to new episodes ad-free and a whole week early.

Welcome to StarTalk, your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. StarTalk begins right now. This is StarTalk and I'm your host, your personal astrophysicist, Neil deGrasse Tyson. I work at the American Museum of Natural History right here in New York City, where I also serve as director of the Hayden Planetarium. And for this episode of StarTalk, we're doing what we call Cosmic Queries, where questions come to me from our social media. where questions come to me from our social media.

But I don't read them. I don't even know what they are until I walk in and sit down at this microphone, and I get help today from Chuck Nice. Hey, Neil. What's happening? Chuck. Good to be here, man. Welcome back.

Thank you, sir. Always good to be here. So you're going to read. What are these questions? What is today's topic? Well, today's topic is the space race. Okay. I think I know a little bit about that. A little bit about that.

I hope so. I got this. I hope so. But actually, just so you know, this may sound like a cheap plug, but it's just. So I wrote a book called Space Chronicles. Right. Facing the Ultimate Frontier. It came out two years ago.

Do you know why I write books? Because you can. I'm going to tell you why I don't write books. Because you can't. There you have it. And I know my limitations. No, I write books so that I never have to talk about that subject again. Really?

I compile it all in there. And someone said, tell me about that. I just hand them the book. Here's a book. Yeah, and I walk away. Oh, my God. So now you're just resurrecting this in me when I'm trying to think about other stuff. But fine.

Sorry. I'm sorry to do that. Oh, my God. I can't believe you just said that, that you write a book so you don't have. You remind me. This is the household I grew up in. So I would ask my mother or my father, what does this mean? And they would say, go look it up.

Whoa. Whoa. And I'm like, yeah look it up. Whoa. Whoa. And I'm like, yeah, that's what you're for. So what may have looked like evil parents at the day turned you into an independent researcher. Actually, yeah. You know, I'm kind of, and now it's funny because I do the same thing to my children. They're like, you know, my son, he'll say, dad, do you know? And I'm like, yeah, I do know.

Do you? So we'll find out and come back. So that works whether or not you actually know it. Exactly. There you go. See? All right, let's jump into our Cosmic Queries. And, of course, we always start off with a Patreon patron question.

And if you support us on Patreon, we will give your questions priority here at Cosmic Queries, okay? Patreon, where we basically buy your loyalty. Okay, here we go. Matthew Massanon from Calgary, Alberta says, in your opinion, Dr. Tyson, what was

the most significant thing that the Apollo program achieved with the exception of landing on the moon? Wow, that's a good question when you think about it, because everybody, you say Apollo program, it's moon landing. Bang, that's the end of it. That's it. But he's saying, give me something that is just as significant that we don't think about. Tang. So, beginning in 1970, a little earlier, but in 1970 was the first Earth Day nationally, and then it became a rapid international hit, if you will. Yeah, because Earth Day is global now.

It's global now, and it's a significant global celebration of our home planet. And around that same time, so what else happened? 1971, 2, and 3, we would see the passing of the Comprehensive Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act. In 1970, NOAA was founded, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. we would see the passing of the Comprehensive Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act. In 1970, NOAA was founded, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, to monitor our climate and our oceans and our weather. And not only that, the Environmental Protection Agency was founded in 1970.

By the time 1973 came around, leaded gas would be banned, DDT would be be banned the catalytic converter would be introduced all of this happened During the years we were going to the moon At a time when we had a whole lot of other stuff Distracting us like a Cold War with the Soviet Union and a hot war in Southeast Asia and campus unrest from anti-war protests and the civil rights movement and assassinations. 1968 would see two assassinations on domestic soil. And so why am I saying all this?

Because while we had all these other potential distractions, we nonetheless paused to reflect on our relationship to our home planet. So I submit to you that though we went to the moon to explore the moon, upon getting there and looking back, in fact, we would discover Earth for the first time. Wow. So it's like I've been to paradise,

but I've never been to me. It's exactly that. Yeah, exactly. So can you put a dollar figure on the fact that seeing Earth in the sky from the moon was like a firmware update in our sense of awareness. And who we are. Of the importance of Earth and our relationship to it. Right.

Okay, that's actually, that's a bit more existential than I was expecting for an answer. Okay. I have to say that's a damn good answer because it's more of a collective conscious enlightenment. Yes. And I don't think anyone started the program with that expectation. Right. But that is clearly a consequence of it. Right.

And so, remember that TV commercial with the Native American standing on the, and it was a tear in his eye. Single tear. The single tear, and people throwing garbage out the window. That didn't happen until this period, until we were going to the moon. We were total garbage out the window people for long before that, right? I never got that about us. I mean, seriously. Garbage out the window, pretty much all through human history.

All through human history. And in fact, that was great for anthropologists. They can find stuff along the Roman via, you know, that people, oh, a McDonald's cup. What did they do? Boy, McDonald's would have been around. No, but you, it was, we didn't start thinking of it as a cultural environmental problem until that period. Wow. Okay.

Wow. Hey, Matthew, I hope you're satisfied with that answer because it was a complete curveball with that answer. And then there's Tang. That and Tang, a close second. Very close second. There you go. All right.

Okay. Here we go. Our next question. Abhijit Mané. Let's hope. I'm sorry, Abhijit. I'm sorry. From Facebook, wants to know this. The space race was in a way an extension of the Cold War arms race, but also the resolve of President John F. Kennedy, who pledged that we'd get there in 10 years. Do you know anyone today in the political sphere who could do the same? What kind of politician would be ideal in this regard? We go to the moon because we choose to. It's that and the other thing we do because. Never mind. Forget it.

Chuck, that was your worst impression ever. It really is. And normally you're good. I know, but you know what? I'm not even doing Kennedy. I'm actually doing Mayor Quimby from The Simpsons, you know? Vote Quimby. I mean, you imitate a TIE fighter from Star Wars.

Right. I mean, you imitate a TIE fighter from Star Wars. Right. I thought Kennedy would be easy after that. Yes. So there's an assumption built into that question that the political will and charisma, perhaps, of Kennedy was a significant force operating in how and why we got to the moon. And this is commonly thought, but I'm contrarian in that regard. Well, good. Right? No doubt Kennedy had charisma. No doubt he had a sort of way with rallying people behind an idea. No doubt about that. But I submit that if we were not at war, all of that would have just

been empty rhetoric and nobody would have signed the check. Congress, because Congress is not as swayed by speeches as the public is. Absolutely. All right. And so it's Congress who writes the check. That's right. At the end of the day. So consider 1989, the 20th, July 20th, the 20th anniversary of the moon landing. Who was the then sitting president? I don't know. Herbert Walker, George Herbert Walker Bush. He goes to the steps of the Air and Space Museum, delivers a speech not fundamentally different from Kennedy's speech. We're Americans.

We're explorers. Columbus set sail. This is our time. We will put men on Mars and have a space station. We'll have us build a space station and we will... He was trying to give a Kennedy speech.

Right. Okay? Fell flat on his face. Now, why? People said, well, because he's not Kennedy. I beg to differ. Okay. Not that he isn't not Kennedy. Right. That sentence make sense? That's correct.

Because he isn't not Kennedy. No, he isn't Kennedy. It didn't work not because he isn't Kennedy. Right. I claim it didn't work because, do you remember what happened in 1989? I don't know. Peace broke out. Wow. Peace broke out in Europe.

That's a terrible thing. That is the collapse of the Soviet Empire. That is the tear down the wall. The wall came down in 1989. All of a sudden, our motivation for our military might, the very thing that drove

who and what we were as the carriers of freedom and the American way in the face of evil communists, it all evaporated that year. And he's trying to give a speech to get people to go to Mars in the absence of a mortal enemy. Right. So we would have either needed Martians. That'd be the best. That would have been the best.

The best. Right. We either need Martians. Evil Martians. Evil Martians. Not E.T. Right. E.T.

Exactly. Wouldn't it be cool if E.T. came out, guns drawn? That would be awesome. And he shot Elliot or whatever the hell that was. That's the way it ends. You know what I mean? E.T. go home. But first.

We must test our ray guns on you. Right, exactly. So, yeah, so really the competition. No competition. No, it's not only competition because you can do that, and still succeed but the greatest competition our species knows is the threat of death from someone who might out compete you in a way that would kill you so i claim that the biggest reason that failed was not because bush lacked the charisma of kennedy what he happened is he lacked the cold war right and by the way, he proposed, you know what it was?

He said, this will be a 25-year, I forgot the exact time interval, 25-year plan. And it would be a 25, 30-year plan, and it'll cost a trillion dollars. Whoa. Okay, so people freaked. Right, and that was the end of that right there. Okay, or half a trillion dollars. Half a trillion dollars. Okay. Oh, that's better. No, listen, half a trillion. I'm like, all right, okay, we can work with that. But here's the thing. If you took NASA's budget

at the time, which is between 15 and $20 billion in today's annual budget, and then you multiply that over 30 years, right? You get half a trillion dollars. So we already are allocating half a trillion dollars to NASA over that same amount of time. So to say that's DOA because it's too much money, that's a false argument. Right. You might have to retool NASA with its budget, but it was a false argument to think it's too much money.

That's all. So I'm unconvinced by people saying that George Herbert Walker Bush was absent the charisma of Kennedy. So I don't think it has anything to do with politicians. It has to do with whether we think we're going to die. Okay, and there you have it. By the way, just to let you know,

you are going to die. Okay, sorry. So we should do it irrespective. I think that if we really want to go to Mars... Die by unnatural causes. There you go. If we really want to go to Mars, we should...

Scientists should get together and in a somewhat conspiratorial way, tell the world that there's oil on Mars. Yeah, but then we'd be lying. Yeah, but we'd go to Mars. Do you know why there's oil?

Or that there's terrorists on Mars. Do you know why there's oil on Earth? Because we have life on Earth. Right. And so maybe, okay, maybe there's an episode of Mars where there was life. Right. All that life sunk down, and then it made oil. So that'd be cool.

That would be cool. Go to Mars and get oil. And we'd be there next week. But what I joke about is we should go to China and go, psst, go tell the leaders of China, psst, can you leak a memo? Don't be true. It doesn't have to be true. Just leak a memo saying you want to put military bases on Mars.

Boom, that's it. We're done. There you go. We're on Mars. We bases on Mars. Boom, that's it. We're done. There you go. We're on Mars. We're on Mars in 10 months. 10 months. One month to fund, design, build a spacecraft. Nine months to get there.

We go to Mars not because it is easy, but because it is hard. And the Chinese. Once again, awful, awful impersonation. All right, let's move on. Well, that's pretty cool. I agree with what you're saying. It's move on. Well, that's pretty cool. I agree with what you're saying. It's not about, I think people put too much emphasis on the importance of the presidency, and they're unaware of how much power the president really has. Has or does not have, right.

Our whole system of government is designed to keep power out of the hands of the president. Precisely. So the president doesn't run away like a dictator. Right. So people often overestimate what the president can and cannot do. You know? All right, cool. Let's move on to... Time for a couple more questions. Okay.

In this segment. Go on. In this segment, here we go. Isaac J. Kim of Facebook. Thank you, Isaac. Isaac has a pronounceable name for you. Yes, thank you, Isaac. From NYC.

This is what Isaac says. Hometown boy. That's right. What kind of computing power did Mission Control and the shuttle have during the Apollo era? I can only tell you what I've read about that because I didn't calculate this myself. But there have been comments that the computing power, I don't believe this, but it was fun to read it and say it, the computing power of a singing greeting card. No.

I heard that because there's a chip in there. It's hilarious. You open it up, happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. So it had to have been a little more than that. I don't know the answer for sure. Because, again, I don't know these questions. But I could have researched it, of course, before.

Well, you don't get the questions. I don't get the questions. But what is no doubt, no doubt, anything we're carrying in our hip pocket is greater than anything that was going on when we went to the moon. Wait a minute. Now, okay, I do believe that because of the microprocessors that we use in order to run our phones. By the way, but by the way, by the way, the miniaturization of electronics

is entirely driven in its initial stages by NASA. Okay. We had electronics filling, you know, so our parents, our grandparents, had radios the size of furniture in their living room. Correct. Where they would gather around and listen to radio shows. Listen to radio shows.

And was any of them saying, gee, I want to carry this on my hip? It's just a non-thought. Right, exactly. Doesn't mean they might not welcome it, but no one is even thinking that way. Oh my God, you're right. NASA is saying, we need this technology and we need to launch it and it costs $10,000 a pound to put anything in orbit. So we got to shrink this stuff. Shrink this down.

We got to shrink it down. Take this to the lab and shrink it down. Right. Now, okay? So this miniaturization drives a whole frontier that then becomes commercial commodities. Absolutely. It then becomes commercial commodities. Absolutely.

I just had, it's fascinating what you just said about grandparents and radio. Sitting around the radio, listening to their programming. When I was a kid, we sat around the television. I never once thought, I want to carry that television on my hip. And guess what? I do. My phone is a freaking television. I can watch the internet or any TV show I want on demand on my phone. I am carrying a TV on my hip.

Exactly. Amazing. Yep. That is so cool. And if you don't think about it, it's just TV is the thing you do when you get home and you turn it on. Right. Right. Right.

Yeah. But no longer. So, yeah. Oh, man. That's super cool. So, basically. I would say, yeah. So, do you remember the movie Apollo 13? Right, where they're trying to save the guys' lives,

and they said, here is the only thing they have available, and they dump out this bag onto the table. Okay, engineers save their lives. Right. And they said, okay, but wait a minute. They said, oh, we need this. The slide rule. Now we got it, okay?

Now we can do this. Slide rule to the rescue! Hey! Anybody got an abacus? Now we got it, okay? Now we can do this. Slide rule to the rescue. Hey. Anybody got an abacus? We got to save a life over in... So, anyhow, yeah. So they would blow it away. Right.

So back then, computers were used for timing things and simple calculations. And the rest was very mechanical. Okay. But back when it was the right stuff. Right. Yeah. Now the right stuff is all in the computer. We got a break. When we come back, we'll have more Cosmic Queries from you on the past, present, and future of space exploration. We're back on StarTalk. And I'm Elias Tyson, your personal astrophysicist.

With me, my co-host, Chuck Nice. That's right. Doing cosmic queries. Yes, we are, sir. Space exploration. That's right, the space race. From Facebook and Twitter and the fan base of StarTalk. Everywhere they are, we went and asked, and they asked back. And they're coming back.

That's good. And I haven't seen these questions before, so I'll be candid of my ignorance if I don't. But I did publish a book on this subject. Okay. Yes. So, yes. But we'll forgive your ignorance. I do have some thoughts on this matter.

So, yeah. That's crazy. So, go on. All right. Let's jump into this. By the way, in the first segment, you asked me very clean, intelligent questions. There are no crazy questions out there? Don't worry.

I'm sure we got some crazy questions here. All right, go on. Okay, since you said that, I'm going to get right to it. I didn't mean this minute, but fine. You know what? I'm glad you brought it up because it's staring me right in the face, and I actually wasn't going to ask you this. So, Sean Thomas from Facebook says this.

Have you ever punched someone in the face like Buzz Aldrin did? Yes. Why did you do that? If no, who would you like to? I added the last part. Okay. So what's the person's name again? Sean.

Sean Thomas. Sean is remembering an incident where, because Buzz Aldrin, the second man to walk on the moon. By the way, he landed on the moon in the same instant that Neil Armstrong did. Yes. During the same damn spacecraft. And then they played rock, paper, scissors.

And some other guy actually won. So, you know, I always call it scissor, paper, stone. Get out of here. Rock, paper, scissors. Rock, I always called it scissor, paper, stone. Get out of here. Rock, paper, scissors. Rock, paper, scissors.

Scissor, paper, stone? You truly are a geek. No, no, that's how I used to. Who's ever heard of scissor, paper, stone? I know, that's how I learned it. But rock, paper, scissors. Fine, fine. Rock, paper, scissors. Fine.

So. I'm going to start calling it scissor, paper, stone now just to get a reaction from people. What about scissor, paper, silicon dioxide? scissor paper stone now just to get a reaction from people. What about scissor paper silicon dioxide? Scissor papyrus silicon dioxide. Papyrus, right. So now what was the question? Okay, have you ever seen somebody punch? Have you ever punched anybody in the face?

Buzz Aldrin would constantly be accosted by people saying we didn't go to the moon and can he prove it? Will he swear on a Bible didn't go to the moon and can he prove it will he swear on a bible that he went to the moon nobody ever lies with their hand on the bible we know that from every single court case in history because you put your hand on that bible oh you got me i murdered her that's oj that's what he did they put his hand on the bible gosh darn it now i gotta tell you had the glove on so he wasn't touching the Bible, actually. Nice. Nice with the glove.

Nice. Like, like. So, and apparently there's a YouTube video that shows him punching a guy. Now, Buzz was badass in his day. Do you know he was a pole vaulter? I did not know that. Yeah. Yeah, if you're a pole vaulter, you've got muscles in all the right places.

Let me tell you. Yes, you do. And so, Buzz was like 89. we had him on star on star talk yeah right yeah i've actually met him through you okay yes so by the way still a surly like guy who and i shouldn't say surly still a um vibrant guy yeah vibrant guy he's got energy for life and for thinking. Exactly. And so he, so there's this video of him punching a guy out. Now, I didn't really believe the video,

and then I asked him, and he denied it. That didn't mean he didn't feel like doing it at times. Right. So let's assume this is what he feels like doing, whether or not he did do it.

Right. So the real question is, do I ever feel like punching someone in the face for not believing that we landed on the moon? And I don't feel compelled to harm people in their ignorance. Oh, that's very kind of you. No, no.

I don't mean ignorance in a bad way. There's just stuff they don't know. I know exactly what you mean. You're saying, and that's very compassionate of you. You're saying that you look at a person and you will uh sympathize before because they're in their ignorance yes i'm an educator educator so you want to help that person you see a person in need when you see an ignorant person yes i see a dumbass that is the difference between me i see someone there's a there's a gap in their education, and people think that education is just what you know.

Right. No, no, no, no, no. That's an aspect of it. But for me, the most important element of education is what is your capacity to think? Awesome. And so what leaves you in denial that we went to the moon? Right. What's the resistance here?

And look at everything else you do embrace. They're probably using a cell phone, a smartphone that's communicating with satellites. So we can put a satellite up there. Cell phone. So I don't understand why this is such a stretch to imagine. And why would we not go to the moon nine times? Okay? Well, there you have it.

Then stop not going to the moon. Exactly. Because if it were a fraud that we perpetuate it, wouldn't we still be perpetuating that fraud, but just a little further out than the moon? A little further out. I mean, why not? And then, so someone did the analysis. What would it take to fake the moon landing?

Okay. So you'd have to fake all of the buildings where you're constructing the spaceships. NASA. The spacecraft. Right. Oh, okay. The Saturn V.

Saturn V. And you would have to fake all the engineering drawings, the warehouses of engineering drawings. Right. And you'd have to fake the docking and all this communication. And by the time you figure out what it takes to fake it, it's way easier just to go. It certainly is when you put it that way. It's, wait, just go to the moon.

You know what? And that's very much, it's funny because people who think like that, I call that the criminal mentality or I call it the genius criminal mentality. Nemesis mentality. The nemesis mentality. If you took half the energy that you put into doing what you are doing that is wrong into doing something constructive, you would be very successful. You wouldn't be sitting in prison right now. You'd be running. You'd be CEO of whatever company.

You'd be Tony Stark. Right. You'd be Tony Stark because some of these guys, they come up with genius ways to do the wrong thing. But because they have this criminal mentality, it screws them. There's a synapse firing in the wrong. In the wrong. Right.

It went the wrong fork in the synapse. Exactly. Yeah. You know, and you're right. It's like when you think about everything. First of all, the other thing too is when you see these rockets take off, where are they going? I know. You can calculate how much fuel is in a Saturn V rocket in all three stages.

Right. And I assure you they were not going to the piggly wiggly down the street. This is enough fuel to get them to the moon and back. It's not intro calculus. A little later, you can learn what's called the rocket equation. Okay. And you can derive it and know what it is. And the rocket equation prescribes how much fuel you need.

That's how much fuel was in the Saturn V rocket. Gotcha. So, but I take a slightly other view of this. I think, wow, they are so impressed with modern technology that they're in denial of it. Wow. That's how far we've come. See, you really are a compass. You truly are. And I tell you, it's funny because people ask me all the time about you, but they're like, what's Neil really like?

And I tell them, Neil is exactly like what you see. you, but they're like, what's Neil really like? And I tell them, Neil is exactly like what you see. And he truly is when people call him the world's foremost science educator, that is like his singular focus in life. People who have a singular

focus like yours, at every turn, I see you take the time to talk to... Lex Luthor has a singular focus. Singular focus, right. That's what you want. Except instead of ruling the time to talk to... Lex Luthor has a singular focus. Singular focus, right. That's what, like, I'm like that. Yeah, that's what, just like you are. Except instead of, like, ruling the world,

it's to educate the world. Right. I just want people to be empowered, and then I go home. I'll go back to the beach, and call me if you need me. Right. But once you're empowered,

you don't have to keep coming back to me. Right. Think for your own damn self. That makes perfect sense. I mean Think for your own damn self. That makes perfect sense. I mean, I don't get it. I think it's people, people are in denial of that kind of thing

because they just want a government conspiracy. They love them some government. They just love government conspiracy. And anyone who's worked for the government said, we are incapable

of a conspiracy. That's funny. Yeah, we are incapable of a conspiracy. That's funny. Yeah, we are not organized enough to conspire anything. That is funny. It's never government workers saying, we're, we're, we're. That's hilarious. Find someone who's worked their life in the government and ask them if they could ever possibly pull off a conspiracy. If they could ever possibly hide aliens.

Because you're going to have the... You're going to have the office assistant at the front desk. What the hell is that you just brought back? Right, exactly. Did you just bring an alien in here? No, you saw nothing. I'm going to call Betty. You can't keep that shit a secret.

Oh, my God. Oh, that's hilarious. Okay. Hey, there you go, Sean Thomas. We ate up half the damn segment on that question. But it was funny. It was good. It was good to know.

It was good to know. So there you have it, Sean. Neil doesn't want to punch people in the face. He just wants to educate them. So his punch in the face is knowledge. Look at that. I just punched you in the face with knowledge. We slap you with knowledge.

We slap you with knowledge. Take that. Learn knowledge. Take that. Learn that. Take that. Also, this reminds me of one of Arthur C. Clarke's edicts, which is any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Oh, you know, absolutely. So going to the moon. Ooh, you know that? Absolutely. So going to the moon, that's advanced for you?

Exactly. Is it magic or a conspiracy? Right. Like if you took like an Oculus back to just, let's say, 1925, where there were significant... Oculus, was that a leader of Rome? I am Oculus. Dear Oculus. Meet my cousin Calculus.

He's good at math. Oculus and Calculus. What say you? What say you, Oculus? I like that you're being ancient Roman with a British accent. Aren't all ancient Romans? They're all British. Every single ancient Roman with a British accent. Well, aren't all ancient Romans? Don't they all have a British accent? Every single ancient Roman is a British accent.

That's the way every ancient Roman says, Father, tell me, Father. Why do you not love me? No, the Oculus is that. Of course, yeah. You know what I'm saying. It's the VR, the virtual reality. That's what I was trying to say. Virtual reality. That's what I was trying to say. Virtual reality. If you took that back to 1925, which is at a time where there were significant advancements in technology.

In everything. In everything. I mean, you know, at that point, Einstein had already had the theory of relativity. It was already established at that point. If you put an Oculus on somebody back then, they would believe that you were a god. Yeah, their head would explode. Their head would explode head would explode like you could put an oculus on them and say like by the way i'm from another planet and they would

believe whatever you say after that and then they'll say how can we make this do have sex that's always always every new technology technology that's how that's how that goes by the way they've already figured that out they They just have a new... Okay, I don't even... It even happened with cars. Yeah. How do we have sex in a car? You know? Yeah.

A whole generation of people born having been conceived in the backseat of cars. Absolutely. That's why my middle name is Mercury. Chuck Mercury Ford Lincoln. Nice. All right. here we go. Here's the next one from... So I should watch out for that. Anybody named Bonneville?

Right, exactly. This is my daughter, Bonneville. That's my son, Chevy. And that's my other son, Pickup. All right, here we go. This is Hobotronic. Hobotronic from Instagram wants to know this, Neil. Do you think the amount of money or time spent going to the moon multiple times

could have been better spent focusing on other space-related research exploration projects? Other space-related research exploration projects. Could we be on Mars by now if we had not gone back to the moon several more times? Could we have a small-scale orbital colony somewhere? A zero-g manufacturing plant? I mean, are there other things? He goes on. Other things that we could have done. Most of the money to get to the moon was to get there the first time.

After that, it's sort of incremental cost. It's not... Right. So you had to build the infrastructure to make the Saturn V rockets to get the engineers

and the scientists. So it's like scaling up for anything. Scaling up for anything. Scaling up for anything. It's not even unique. Right. As pharma companies

will tell you, the very first pill is a billion dollars. The next one costs 10 cents. Right. Yeah. 100 million, whatever. It's expensive. The next one costs 10 cents. Right. Yeah. 100 million, whatever.

It's expensive. The second one costs 10 cents to make. Exactly. Right, right. So that's the – so really that's not the right way to think about that problem. The right way to think about it is – I don't want to force this question to be a different question. Make it a different question because you just answered that. The answer is this.

When you scale up, that's it. Let me morph the question to be slightly different. Okay. So suppose the Apollo mission was not let's go to the moon, but let's explore space. Right. Then you would have resources not only going to the moon, but exploring an asteroid, a comet, Mars, and you'd be building the capacity to go to space. And then your destination would be what you would choose after you have that capacity.

In the same way, we built the interstate system of the United States. Right. We didn't say, here's a road from New York to LA, that's the only place you're going to go, and that's it. If I want to be creative and I have an idea, I want to do something in Utah or Wyoming or Illinois, don't force me to go one place and no place else.

So I think it would have been a little better had there been a broader... The rebuttal to that is you have to focus. You need the singular mission, otherwise it'll never get done. Right. And I get that.

But if you want to sustain it forever, you want to turn a space program into a space industry. Right. You want to turn it into just a thing. You want to turn the sky into your backyard, then you want to build the capacity to go anywhere you want. A continuing mission. A continuing mission. These are the... That's right. That's correct. That's right. So, once you have a so I think some of that money might

have been better suited to set up a way to maintain that mission for space at all. And so I agree that, I agree with the sentiment of that question, but I just read, read, read. Okay, but I just read the answer. Okay, but now let me just ask you just a quick follow-up because we're running out of time in the segment. But just as a quick follow-up, do you think the commercialization of space and the commodification of space will allow us to get to where you are talking about right now?

The commercialization and the commodification? The commercialization and the commodification of space. Which is what's happening with space. What that will do is drop the price of going to space to the point where other creative things you can think of doing in space become real. All right? So that's the fascinating thing when things get cheaper. Right. Whole ideas pop up you would have never thought possible.

Okay? Right. Whole ideas pop up you would have never thought possible. Okay? So, if going into space is cheap, I can't even imagine what more we can think of doing in space, but it is surely there because it happens every other time anything gets cheap. So, yes, that'll happen. The frontier of space is a different thing. I don't see...

Because there's no money in that. There's no money in that, yeah. There's no business model to do that first that There's no business model To do that first There's no business model To do that Okay Right But once that routine

Is set up Oh yeah Okay Oh yeah Alright We got a break When we come back We will continue

With Chuck Nice Reading the Cosmic Queries On the Frontier Space Exploration We're back on StarTalk. I got to check nice with me. Yes, you do, sir. This is Cosmic Queries edition.

That's correct. This is a fan favorite, Cosmic Queries. Yeah. People love this. You know why? Because this is the thing that we do on StarTalk that belongs solely to the fans. Yeah, okay. It really is.

Maybe that's it. Yeah, it's their show. It's really, you know, we're just here as a conduit to carry out their whims. So I shouldn't tell them that I really don't like doing some Aquarius because I'd rather just sit there and let someone else do the talking. You're making me talk. You're making me work hard. So, all right. Before we go to Chuck.

Yes. So you still doing stand-up? All the time. Pretty much every, you know, so here's the thing. I don't travel as much on the road, which I get a lot of requests, but two reasons. One, I have a small child, and so I'd like to be home. More than one child, one of them is small. One of them is very small because I'm an idiot. And we just had a new baby two years ago.

Did I say new baby? Like there's such a thing as an old baby. We had an old baby five years ago. Yeah, I gave birth to Benjamin Button. Anyway. But I always do stand up in New York City and surrounding area pretty much every weekend. I love your work. And that's why we have you here.

Thanks, man. I always love being here. You affirm that. All right. So what do you got? Okay, let's get back into our queries. Aiden Astronomy from Instagram says. Astronomy is in his handle.

Yes, it is. I love that. You like that? People loving the universe, and they can't help not tell people. They got to let people know. So he says, what was it like for the command module pilots when they went around the backside of the moon? And why did the Soviet N1 moon rockets all blow up? So instead of what was it like, let me just say, on the backside of the moon, what are you experiencing on the backside of the moon that you're not experiencing on

the front side of the moon? All right. So first, as you may remember, the Apollo missions all sent three astronauts to the moon. Two of them deployed down to the surface. Right. One did not. Right.

Stayed in orbit around the moon, eating their lunch, waiting for them to finish driving a golf cart. Better known as the Uber driver of Apollo. Okay. So I'm wondering if I would have just snuck in and crammed three people into the lander. And, you know, I don't know. Are you going to travel that far and just not?

And have to sit in a... Hey, man, wait in the car. We'll be right out. We're going to walk around on the moon. We're going to walk around on the moon. Do me a favor. Can you just keep the car running? Keep the car running. Keep the car running, buddy. We're just We're going to walk around on the moon. We're going to walk around on the moon. Do me a favor. Can you just keep the car running? Keep the car running.

Keep the car running, buddy. We're just going to take a little stroll on the moon now. On the moon. Yeah. So here's the thing. When you go to the backside of the moon, you are one moon diameter away from the other two astronauts. Okay. Okay?

Okay. That is the record for the loneliest person ever. Oh, that's so cool because you're farther out than. You're farther away. You're by yourself. The next closest person. Right. In that moment.

Is one moon diameter away. And that is farther than any other solo person has been. Wow. Yes. Right. So just one little fact, that is the loneliest place we have ever found ourselves. Oh. Yeah.

That's pretty cool little factoid. What makes it extra lonely is when you're behind the moon. Right. Then the moon is between you and Earth. Right. And the radio signals don't penetrate through the moon. So you're also radio silent. Oh, my God.

You're alone and alone. Yes, you're double alone. You're double alone. You're alone squared.. Yes, you're double alone. You're double alone. You're alone squared. You can't communicate with anybody either. Correct. This is why in the future when we're thinking of moon colonies and you want to inhabit the far side of the moon, the far side never faces Earth. The moon, its rotation is what's called tidally locked.

Right. Where it's actually rotating, but at the exact rate that it takes to go around the Earth. So it's always turning its one face towards you no matter where it is. It happens, it's a very natural thing in the universe. Don't think too much about it. Okay, I'm thinking about it. Let me tell you something.

Oh my gosh, what a coincidence. Is that just for us? I'll do that. No, just chill. It's a natural thing. Okay. So when we're thinking about moon colonies, I'll do that Just chill It's a natural thing Okay So So So

When we're thinking about Moon colonies If you're going to Pitch tent On the far side of the moon You're going to still want Communication channels Opened up

Right So there's a whole Separate conversation About radio Transmitter repeaters That are on the edge Of the moon Where signals can come

From the back side And then work their way Back over to the front side And then make it Way back to the earth So you send the edge of the moon where signals can come from the backside and then work their way back over to the front side and then make its way back to the earth. So you send the signal to the booster, the booster sends it over. Exactly, exactly. And so it's a repeater, whatever is the mechanism. Right. So-

Can you hear me now? I'm sorry. Let me move over here. Sorry, I'm on the backside of the moon. Let me just move over. Can you hear me now? How's that? Ah, Jesus, I'm roaming.

I can't believe this. Roaming. I'm roaming, dude. I'm sorry, I'm on the moon. I can't talk, man. Can you hear me now? How's that? Oh, Jesus. I'm roaming. I can't believe this. Roaming. I'm roaming, dude. I'm sorry. I'm on the moon. I can't talk, man. This is costing me a fortune. Okay.

Sorry. Can I give a weirdly perverse version of that? Go ahead. All right. So I was on a presidential commission to study the climate of aerospace around the world relative to here on Earth. Climate, I mean the business climate. And so in one of our trips, we go to China. And China has these, they've got plans to go to space.

This is before they launched their first Tychonaut. Okay. Which is what they call their- Their astronauts or Tychonauts. first Tychonaut. Okay. Which is what they called their- Their astronauts or Tychonauts. Their Tychonauts. And so there's this underbelly of advanced technology that we're reading about and hearing about. And I always wondered, is it real? Is it there?

So I'm on the Great Wall of China. And there it is, just like the photos, going to the horizon into the mist. All right? You can't, there's no end in either direction you look. I do not see any technology at all in any, there are no antennas. There's no, nothing made of metal. There is just the wall. Wow.

And I said, let me try something. I pull out my cell phone. Okay. It was a flip phone at the something. I pull out my cell phone. Okay. It was a flip phone at the time. I call my- StarTAC. I call my, it was, in fact, the Motorola StarTAC. And I call my, because it's good.

Of course. Yeah, thank you. Come on. I call my mother in Westchester, New York. She said, oh, hi, Neil. Are you home already? That's how good the connection was nice it was it was crystal clear connection you certainly didn't have sprint it was one of the best connections i've ever had

in a cell phone ever from the great wall of china with no visible cell phone towers and i and at that time you would walk past a tree in the united states. I'm sorry, I lost my signal. Let me get out in the open here, away from the blades of grass, whatever. So that's how I knew China was going to make whatever they want happen, happen. Wow. That's pretty wild. In that moment. Right. That's actually a very good story and really telling because it makes sense.

Right. You don't see anything and... It's there. Why did I even say that? I was supposed to somehow relate it to this question. Well, no, we were talking about, you know, just the dark side and the actual repeater and all that kind of stuff.

No, no, but the guy with the command module pilot, there was a question. What was the question? Oh, no, it's just like, you know, I'm sorry. Now I lost. I don't think I answered the question. I'm sorry. All right.

So what is it? Oh, oh God. Jesus Christ. Where did you just mention God and Jesus in the same sentence? You must be in a really bad situation. Okay. Oh God. No, you did answer the question perfectly.

What was the question? I wanted to know what it was like for that pilot. Oh, the pilot. Yeah. That's what it was like. And that's exactly what it was like for that pilot. Oh, the pilot. Yeah, that's what it was like. And that's exactly what it was like. Eating a sandwich, waiting. And by the way, I'm going to say that is the lonely existence ever.

Not just because of where he is and not just because of his isolation, but because of the context of that isolation. Yes. You are alone and your friends are walking on the moon. It's triple. It's like I'm alone. I can't communicate with anybody and I'm keeping the car warm and they're on the moon.

Yes. Getting all the glory. All right. Chuck, time for Cosmic Queries. Lightning round. All right. Let's do it. Let's do it.

Here we go. I'm going to give soundbite answers. Soundbite answers. Here we Let's do it Here we go I'm going to give Soundbite answers Soundbite answers Okay here we go This is If I'm giving Soundbite answers You have to read

The questions a little faster Chris McManara 97 from Instagram What is the biggest thing The moon taught us About earth For me I have

I have my personal List of that Alright I think Going to the moon And getting direct measurements of its mineral content and soil content. For me, the coolest thing was discovering that the moon is the product of a collision between a Mars-sized protoplanet. Side-swiping Earth's crust in the early solar system, having that material that had been side-swiped gather into another cosmic body that orbits Earth that we now call the moon. The moon for its size should have much, much more iron in it, but it doesn't. The iron has already

been sifted out. Well, how do you make that happen? Well, on Earth, the iron all went to the core. Most of the iron went to the core, so the crust has hardly any iron in it. If you're going to make a new cosmic object out of the crust, you're going to have hardly any iron in your substance. So, the moon has suspiciously low iron, and it is completely

consistent with this scenario. Nice! And people ask me, if I wanted to go back in time and see something happen, I'd want to see the collision of that Mars-sized protoplanet with Earth and watch the moon get formed. We think it would have formed within a few months. That quickly? Yes, that quickly.

Wow. That quickly. That would have been a badass collision. Yeah, that's a nice collision. Okay, quick. Go. That was too long. I've got to answer faster.

All right, here we go. At Seabass621 wants to know this. Fisherman there. He just loves him to eat some Seabass. All right, here we go. At Seabass621 wants to know this. Fisherman there. He just loves him to eat some Seabass. All right. Who do you think won the space race? Oh, so I call it a tie. Really?

We told the United States and Russia. Okay. Yeah, you know why? Why? Because they were the first to put anything in space, A. They were the first to put a living creature in space. They were the first to put anything in space, A. They were the first to put a living creature in space. They were the first to put a human in space. They were the first to put a woman in space.

They were the first to put a black person in space. They were the first to have a space station. They invented the rocket equation that enabled all this to happen in the first place. And we went to the moon first. There you go. So. Okay. So to me, I'm saying, you know, we didn't do any of that other stuff first, and we got to them and said, we win.

So I'm saying, give the people some credit here, please. Thank you. Next. Oh, that was a great answer, man. All right. Since the moon is loaded. I'm sorry. By the way, their black person was a Cuban.

Oh, really? Okay. So Brentrow, at Brentrow, wants to know this. Since the moon is loaded with helium-3, which is useful for alternative energy, how do you think laws will form in retaliation to mining the moon? Assuming that we're going to mine the moon. Nice. So helium-3 is a version of helium missing one proton.

Helium usually has two protons, two neutrons. That would be helium-4. Take away a neutron, you get helium-3. That's what it's called. Okay? Helium-3 is one of the things that is emanated from the sun in the solar wind. And it comes through space, it gets lodged in the surface of the moon, and it sits there. And there are whole books given onto mining, quite simply, scooping up the topsoil of the moon,

collecting this helium-3 and using it for nuclear fusion reactors. So there's a whole plan that people have for this. And there's been some rebuttals. Will it really recoup the cost, whatever? But helium-3, yeah, we need laws going into the future. Who owns the moon? Who owns asteroids? Who owns the mining rights?

Do they have to be shared? Who paid for it? There are some laws related to this, but for me, it's still undiscovered territory. And this is why the future in space is not just about astronauts, scientists, and engineers. There's the rest of what life is. The lawyers, the artists, the politics, all of this has to come together if we are going to turn what is sitting there above our head that we call space into our backyard. Wow. There you have it.

Chuck. Yes, man. We got to call it a wrap right there. All right. You've been listening to and possibly even watching StarTalk. I've been your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson, your personal astrophysicist, Chuck Nice. Yes, sir. Dude.

Thank you, brother. Always good. Thanks for coming through, helping me get through this, causing the queries. And as always, I bid you to keep looking up.