StarTalk Radio - Exploring Science and Comedy with Larry Wilmore

Episode Date: November 13, 2015

Neil deGrasse Tyson studies the science of comedy with Larry Wilmore, comic co-host Eugene Mirman and cognitive neuroscientist Scott Weems. Andy Weir, author of “The Martian,” calls into the show and Bill Nye attempts a little comedy improv. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to new episodes ad-free and a whole week early.

Welcome to StarTalk, your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. StarTalk begins right now. Welcome to the Hall of the Universe. I'm your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson, your personal astrophysicist. And tonight we're featuring my interview with Larry Wilmore. He's a comedian and host of The Nightly Show on Comedy Central. And in this interview we talk about science fiction movies, magic tricks, and of course, the intersection of science and comedy. So, let's do this.

I've got with me my co-host Eugene Merman, professional comedian. Eugene, welcome back. It's good to be here. Yeah, as a professional, that means... Yeah, I know. I like that you added a professional astrophysicist, not just a dilly-dallying astrophysicist. Right, right. You just like, you get paid to do what you're doing. So welcome back to StarTalk. And on this topic, I didn't want to do it sort of empty-handed. Not that you and I should count as empty-handed.

But in this case, we found someone with particular expertise. Professor Scott Weems. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me. He is the author of a book called Ha! Did I pronounce it right? Yes, you did.

Ha! Subtitled, The Science of When We Laugh and Why. And so this man, as a professional psychologist and author, knows exactly where we're coming from. So let me just find out. The science of humor, that's a curious thing for me. And I always wondered, is a person born funny? So Eugene, were you always a class clown? It took a while to go from being a tragic figure

to a class clown, but I eventually, but I spent years as a child working on it. Okay. So yeah, so not always, but at the end, yes. What is your research show, Scott? Well, I mean, no, I don't think people are born funny. It's like any other art. You get good by practicing a lot. And there have been

studies that have looked at professional comedians and seeing if there's any sort of common element and there really isn't. The only thing is you really want to be heard, so you have to be outgoing and loud. But that's the main thing that helps. Anything else, it's almost random. So what is laughter?

Is there some chemistry going on inside of us? I'm guessing. Yeah. I mean, laughter, if you want to look at it from a psychological perspective, it's a way of dealing with conflict. Our brain is confused a lot in just daily life. There's a lot of times when we, not just when we hear a setup and punchline, but just when meeting someone for the first time on a first date, this is a very common thing to be anxious or confused. And the brain has kind of co-opted laughter,

this kind of like ape-like grunt, to be a coping mechanism, I guess, for when we don't know how else to respond. It's like buying us time, I suppose. Are you telling us that when humans laugh, they're ape-like grunts? Yeah. It's our version of an ape-like grunt.

It is. And apes laugh, dogs laugh, rats laugh's laugh, dog's laugh, rat's laugh. Yeah. Rat's laugh? Rat's laugh. You're telling me rats get jokes? I'm not saying I understand rat humor, but you can actually tickle a rat and hear it laugh.

Yeah. Oh, okay. You can tickle a rat. It sounds like he's done this. I would love to do that. It does sound like that. Yeah. I mean, the thing is you can't hear it,

and it takes some work to measure it. Wait. No. Don't tell me you can tickle rats and they laugh. is you can't hear it, and it's really, it takes some work to measure it. Wait, wait. No, don't tell me you can tickle rats and they laugh, you just can't hear it. Do they flap their little rat knees? What are they, they have the physical part, but just not the sound? Well, I can't hear it. Rats can hear it. It's like 50 kilohertz or something like that.

You probably know the physics. Oh, you can measure the frequency of the sound they're making. Same as like with bats. Okay, so not that they're not making sound, it's that humans can't hear it. Yes. Okay, sorry. You have to clarify that. Do bats laugh? Right now, we're okay. Same as like with bats. Okay, so not that they're not making sound, it's that humans can't hear it. Yes. Okay, sorry. You have to clarify that. Do bats laugh?

Right, now we're okay now. I have no idea. We're good, we're good now. All right, all right. So when you laugh, is there a chemical change within you? Yeah, it all comes down to dopamine, as I'm sure you know.

Dopamine. Yeah, dopamine. That when you laugh, you get... That's the happy chemical. It's the happy chemical, yeah. In the brain. Laughter is like a not dangerous heroin. Cocaine.

Cocaine, sorry, my bad. Stupid. Why did you know that? Heroin's entirely different. But it is. It's the same receptors with cocaine, with chocolate. Actually, a lot of different things, you get a dopamine response, and laughter's one of them, so that's why we like

it so much. Let's bring my interview with Larry Wilmore into this. He came by my office here at the Hayden Planetarium, and usually I ask people, you know, what kind of math and science background they might have had, and how that might have influenced their life's path.

What is the genesis of who and what became that man? So let's check it out. I was very much interested in science growing up. I remember a teacher, Mr. Mitzi, I think was his name. He was our math teacher, and he was such a character. And he made things a lot of fun. I actually was an advanced math student early on.

It was one of the things I loved. I think I was taking calculus as a sophomore or something like that. Calculus as a sophomore in high school? I believe so. Wow. But then I kind of, I lost interest. Wait, wait, in calculus you don't have to believe. Right.

It is, or it's not. It's true. Well, you know what? Once you get into higher math, which you know, which I never got into real high, a lot of it becomes kind of philosophical, it seems. Well, it's not so much philosophical. It's that there are ideas that get represented with symbols,

and it's like, what the hell did I just do? Exactly. Take this to infinity. What is that? Exactly. How does that? Or as X approaches infinity. My question is, why is X approaching infinity?

X might want to be careful. I don't know what's happening over there in infinity. But X might want to go the other way. It doesn't need to approach it at all if it's infinitely far away. Yeah, so that's where maybe that's what you're thinking. It got a little philosophical. Yeah, once I got into the X approaches infinity, I thought, I may as well be doing comedy because this all doesn't make sense to me. But I was a theater major.

A theater major, and you dropped out. Are you another one of these famous college dropouts? Every next one of you who shows up in this office, I'm going to have to say at the end of the day, kids, don't go to college. You want to become somebody. I know. It's horrible when I get invited to speak at colleges. What's your advice? Don't finish. But it was kind of my circumstance at the time. I pretty much had the opportunity to do what I wanted to do. So something came up. Exactly. It's not like you got bored with college.

Correct. Okay, an opportunity came up. An opportunity came up in the business, and I thought, well, let me just do this. And I thought about going back at some times, but I just started working. So what was that first gig? It was the Mark Taper Forums Theater in Los Angeles.

It was in their improvisational theater project. So a comedy theater. Kind of, and we wrote a play through him uh through improvisation but it was kind of like children's theater but it was with legitimate theater actors it wasn't like uh groundlings type improv yeah it was like theater and actually i've always kind of i've been lucky i've known some people who've kind of been in the business and that kind of stuff i never got any direct break from that but it gave me the confidence to keep going. Yeah, yeah. So, and L.A. is the right place.

It's one of the places, but I believe you can start anywhere. That's my firm belief. Well, I did stand-up comedy early on also. And, you know, I worked all over the country, and I met a lot of people who started in many different parts, you know, especially as comics.

And that was in the heyday of the comedy club. Because every, yeah, every city's got comedy clubs. At least back then. So there's always a gig. Yeah, now they the heyday of the comedy club. Because every city's got comedy clubs. At least back then. There's always a gig. Yeah, now they're Chuck E. Cheese's now. In the back corner. Yeah, exactly.

It's so sad now. But science, I loved science growing up. I wanted to be an astronaut. Okay. When I was growing up, I followed the space program. That's in an era before they had black astronauts. Correct. Yeah, because I didn't see, to me,

that was a closed door, right? I said, they're not looking for me. Right. We're talking about an era where big afros and hair, it was all about the hair. Exactly. And all the astronauts. Well, the helmet wouldn't have fit. Right. So that would have been a big issue.

Or I thought maybe. Just a bigger helmet. Right. That would be hilarious. I thought maybe your brother gets an Apollo 13. Maybe that's how it works. But, yeah, space was not, as we say. Apollo 13 is the one that failed.

Right. That's just to be clear. An Apollo 18 was the fake one in Capricorn 1, I think, or something like that. Something like that. So I noticed you even have a Peabody Award. I do. Congratulations on that. I was very honored because Walter Cronkite gave me the award.

I mean, he handed it to you. Yes, exactly. I was, as I said, a big space nerd and a huge fan of Walter Cronkite. Right, because he announced us to the moon. That's exactly right. I was a big political junkie at the time, too. I watched Cronkite every night, so to have him give it to me, and I made a joke and kind of made him laugh, too. What joke was it? Well, I said, you know, I never imagined that I would hear Walter Cronkite say my name. I mean, in my wildest dreams, I thought, you know, I might hear something like,

Larry Wilmer was arrested yesterday. I might hear that. I said, but, you know, I always wanted to be an astronaut, so in my dreams I thought I'd hear, Astronaut Larry Wilmer blasting off into space. In his voice. Yeah, exactly. Because that would make it official. I said, but, or, you know, I thought I'd hear, astronaut Larry Wilmer blasting off into space. In his voice. Yeah, exactly. Because that would make it official.

I said, but, or, you know, at the end of the day, it might be, former astronaut Larry Wilmer was arrested yesterday. But, so he laughed about it, and I thought, oh, that's cool. I made Walter Cronkite laugh. So that was cool. That was a great, that was a fun moment. Yeah. I love all the conspiracy theories about not going to the moon.

You know what it is? I think a lot of young people don't think we were smart enough to accomplish something like that. Oh, they think their ancestors were just dummies. I think so. I think, hey, we figured out the iPhone. You guys weren't smart enough to figure that out. How the hell could you go to the moon? So, Eugene, is there an equation that will give you the best joke?

Is there any mathematical kind of thinking? Well, there is in the sense that I think that stand-up is very much the scientific method. Stand-up comedy. Stand-up comedy. You go on stage, you try something. If it works, you keep it. If it fails, you switch it out and you try it again. Okay, so that's the experimental method. Yeah. Well, I brought up the idea of mathematics manifesting itself in comedy with Larry Wilmore. So let's see what he says about mathematics in comedy. Comedy is all about math, too. It's all about having the correct amount of words.

Jerry Seinfeld talks about this. He's very precise with every word he chooses. When I did stand-up comedy, I would eliminate just the smallest of words or phrases to make the joke just perfect. There's the correct amount of words to make a joke perfect. And once it's there, it's done. You're done with that joke.

Move on to the next one. It's interesting, isn't it? I feel that way when I compose tweets. Really? Oh, yeah. Because I have an idea. Right. And any given day.

And I say, I would make a good tweet. Yeah. So I write down the idea, and it's too long, of course, because I've got to fit it. So now I've got to say, all right, where is the actual essence of what I'm trying to communicate? You're forced to crystallize it. Take that out, shorten that,

that. And I feel almost like Michelangelo when he said, you know, you cut away everything that's not David. Right. And David is left. I compare everything I do to Michelangelo. Not to him, but just how... It's so funny that we have that in common. Right. And David has left. I compare everything I do to Michelangelo. No, I'm just saying. Not to him, but just how- It's so funny that we have that in common.

Just how he explained, not him and his talent, but his attitude. No, no, go for it. Neil deGrasse Michelangelo, I guess. You want to get innovative with the words so that the words say what they mean and they don't have to say, there's not too many of them. So I'm with you on that. Right. And I just, I do it to communicate wisdom and insight rather than a joke. But occasionally I put a joke out. Can I tell you one of my tweet jokes? I would love to hear it.

If you took all the veins, arteries, and capillaries from a man, tied them end to end, he would die. I was going to say, he would die. I was going to say, he'd probably be a homo-sido-mania if he were doing something like that. I would agree with that completely. Do you call that something in comedy? What's that called? I think we could call it a logical conclusion. No, logical conclusion.

There's logic in comedy then. Logical conclusions are a legitimate form of comedy. You set up something that sounds like it's something else, but then you take the logical conclusion. So, Scott, from your studies and from what I've read, they show that there's a link between humor and creativity. What is that link? If you have people watch, like, a stand-up comedy routine

or even just listen to it on the radio and you give them an intelligence test afterwards, they'll do better on the test. Really? And it's not just linked with intelligence. There's creativity tests, problems of insight, things like that. They'll do better if they've had comedy before. The idea is that it's like a form of exercise for the brain.

So comedy makes you smarter? Yeah, I don't know how long the effect lasts. I make people smarter is, I think, a great way to phrase this. I don't have business cards, but now I would like them. I make you smarter. So I also heard that people who laugh more die sooner. What's up with that? I haven't heard that.

Well, first, is it true? And may I recommend you saying no? Yeah, you're not going to like this. People who laugh a lot die? Yeah, I mean, people with good senses of humor, and you can test that. I'd rather not. They die earlier. How much earlier, like a week or like years?

Four or five years, maybe. I mean, they don't have an exact number for it. That's a lot of life. If you look at the graph, it's not short. What is the explanation? Don't just give me the results of experiments. Give me why. Part of it is that

there's good kinds of humor and there's bad. So there's like the Rodney Dangerfield self-deprecating humor too. And this is also really common. And I think if you're Rodney Dangerfield, you can get away with that, but a lot of people can't. And so you can use humor in negative ways too. And if it puts you down or puts out on other people, then that's creating stress on the body. And we know stress is bad. And what you're saying is everybody at a comedy roast would be dying five years sooner than is their day. Yeah, except for I think the professionals, they probably don't internalize it like other people might.

Oh. They kind of know what they're doing. People who are self-deprecating in real life who are just like, I'm a sad person. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Oh. And then those people die. That's fine.

So the comedy... Ha, ha, ha, ha. That's fine. So the comedy... That's it. Well, when we come back, we will pick up more of my interview with Larry Wilmore as we explore the intersection of science and comedy on StarTalk. We're back.

StarTalk featuring my interview with Larry Wilmore, host of The Nightly Show on Comedy Central. He's a comedian. And we're just talking about the intersection of science and comedy. So what's interesting to me is the three of us are college graduates. But what I learned interviewing Larry Woolmore is he was yet another one of StarTalk's interview subjects who was a college dropout. I'm just curious about something.

Eugene, you're a successful comedian, stand-up comedian. You are college-educated. So how is it that you became fully college-educated in a world where such success doesn't... Well, I went to a college. I went to Hampshire College where you can design your own major. So I majored in comedy. Oh, okay.

So what's different there is you made the college fit you instead of you having to fit the college. Yeah. Well, that's different. That's, sure. But I had a very nice time. My thesis was a one-hour stand-up act. And then I did stuff on the physiology of laughter

and all sorts of things. It was all wrong, but I learned a lot. So you, like, wrote papers on laughter? I wrote a whole inaccurate paper. The best part of my paper on the physiology of laughter is that I had a footnote, and when you looked at the bottom, it said, made you look.

That's funny. So, Scott, is there... This sounds like you can be taught comedy. You can learn, teach yourself comedy. I mean, it is an art. So in that way, I think you're right. Practice. I mean, they say with the five Ps for getting to Carnegie Hall,

you practice and practice and practice, practice, practice. And that's essentially what it is. It's up to five. It used to be... Three. I know. Times are tough. It's five now.

No, it's like any other art, though. You can still, like with painting, you can still study things like line and contour and form. So there's still things you can study with humor. But, like, you know, you can't just read a book and all of a sudden be funny. You've got to really get in front of audiences and spend a lifetime working on it. So something that shows up in a lot of comedy is the unexpected. Right? What role does that play? Is that like essential? Is that like the biggest variable here that you want to promote in being funny? Yeah, I mean, you need surprise. If you don't have surprise,

then you're just going to bore your audience. But it's kind of surprise along with this new way of thinking about something. So it has to be like a destination too. What do you mean by destination? Well, there'll be the setup. And then you realize you've got everything wrong. And then comes the punchline and there's the surprise, the end, the payoff. Because you invested in establishing this landscape and then the landscape gets completely dissolved by the end because a whole new understanding has been handed to you.

You think you're thinking one way and then something turns and you see everything that you've just heard in a new way. So that's formulaic, in a sense. Kind of, yeah. I mean, we think of surprises by itself funny, but that's like just hiding behind a door and then yelling boo. Like, that's not... It would be great if every story ended with just someone going boo!

It's not really the good laugh. There's always something that there has to be some meaning behind it. So another thing I noticed is if you're at a table with a complete stranger and you both laugh at the same joke, you've got some sense of communality there, some sense of real community. That's an interesting, do they study sort of the anthropology of laughter in this regard? Yeah. I mean, it's a very social thing, humor. I mean, like comedians, they perform in front of audiences. They wouldn't do well if it was like an empty room. It kind of falls flat. You can't tell a joke that way. And it turns out that the more people you have in a room, the better the laughter will be. So

it's contagious, literally contagious. And the closer you pack people in, the more they'll laugh too. And alcohol helps too. So if you get them crowded and give them alcohol, studies show that. But if it was like too many people who were too drunk, it would be bad. There is like a probably perfect amount. You wouldn't actually want like a thousand people in a hundred square foot room drunk out of their minds. I'd love to see that study and look for where that drop off is. Yeah, it's about, yeah. Okay, so in math we call it a maximization problem.

That's what I would love to do for drinking and comedy. Right. it a maximization problem. That's what I would love to do for drinking and comedy. So I've learned as an educator that if people smile, if people laugh, they're more eager to, if that was the consequence of something I just taught, they want to learn more. They associate a good feeling with it rather than a bad one. And to this day, I've realized, and I was going to tweet this, I haven't gotten around to it yet. Only in a university environment is it okay for you to say, I'm going to go to a room and have someone lecture to me. Any other day of your life, you will never say that. And if you tell someone I'm going to lecture you, it is a bad thing. It is something you want to avoid. And so my sense of it is a

lecture that has humor doesn't have the stigma of the lecture, and then people might want more of it. And so I'm just saying I've had people come back for more when I've folded it with things that are funny. And personally, I think the universe is hilarious, personally. And there's a science behind that too. It's actually like 15%, I think, give or take, that retention on a test would be better, about 15%, if you've incorporated jokes to help people study the material better. So if you can put jokes into your lessons, people will retain it better. But it has to be related to the material.

It can't just be, let me tell you a knock-knock joke is a break. That doesn't help. But if it's related to the stuff, then it helps. Yeah, and the universe is freaking hilarious. That's just what I found. Just all the ways, interesting ways to die, you know.

What's the third best way? The third best way to die? I know the first, black hole. Second, probably just falling. And then what's the third? You should write a book on that. Yeah.

Let me get back to my clips with Larry Wilmore. There it is. We are featuring my interview with Larry Wilmore here. So I don't know if you know, but Larry Wilmore is trying to actually include more scientists on his show. In fact, I was on his show once, and I was delighted. on a show once and I was delighted. And in my interview, we talked about what his efforts are to make science more of the talk show conversation. So let's check it out. You're one of our most popular guests, I have to say. What does that mean? I've been on once?

No, you were, people were so excited that you were on our show. I think they were let down that I was there. You still get it. Yes, exactly. Finally, finally, here's the brother we wanted in Late Night. What's that you were on our show. I think they were let down that I was there. You still get it. Exactly. Finally, finally, here's the brother we wanted in Late Night. What's this other brother doing? No, you were such a popular guest. But you also had my good friend who recently moved to town,

Bill Nye. That's right. Yeah. Because he's Bill Nye. He's the science guy. The science guy. He's the real deal. Right.

So it's good that you had him on. I mean, not everyone, I mean, I think of talk shows where they never think to have a scientist on. And that's not, what does that mean? You know, is science not enough in pop culture to even go there, to think about it, to at least infuse it? Even if just to have fun, you know? And you had fun. We talked about crazy conspiracy people. And it's not like you can't have fun with science. I agree. I think people just don't know how funny protons are. Or molecules. Molecules are hilarious.

I mean, alien life has always been a source of comedy. Right. Oh, now there's a question. What is the deal with Pluto right now? Is it a planet or not? Just get over it. It's not. But didn't it come back to being a planet? No. There was a straw poll among Pluto fans. Right. And how do you think they're going to vote? They're going to vote, yeah, to being a planet? No, there was a straw poll among Pluto fans.

Right. And how do you think they're going to vote? They're going to vote, yeah, make it a planet again. But why is there so much hatery at Pluto? Why can't it be a planet anymore? What did it do? Well, so every Pluto lover I know, I notice that they're missing some information. Oh, okay.

Yeah, they're not there. That it wasn't actually a planet? Well, so do you know that our moon is five times the mass of Pluto? So you're hating on the planet because it's small. Our moon. That's what you're saying. That's just the beginning. That's not even the best reason why.

You know, size really doesn't matter. I'm just starting out. For you to say that size matters, come on. In the universe, size matters. Come on. In the universe, size matters. He took me there. He went to Pluto.

I mean, I thought I should have warned him before the interview. You don't take me to Pluto. I'm done with Pluto. Just so you know. Coming up on StarTalk, we hear what Larry Wilmore had to say about geek credentials. And StarTalk continues. What's that? That's StarTalk. We're featuring my interview with Larry Wilmore,

a comedian. Talk. We're featuring my interview with Larry Wilmore, comedian, and anytime I interview somebody, no matter who they are, hewn from pop culture, I want to know if they have some hidden geek credentials. Almost everybody does. They just don't admit to it in any other

interview, because they don't get any street cred for doing so. But on StarTalk, that's where the street cred is found. So I checked with Larry Wilmore to see what is he at. Let's check it out. Do you count yourself a member of the geek community? I am, but in different ways that might surprise you. Really?

Mm-hmm. So give me an example. Like I'm a magician. I do sleight of hand magic. Magicians do know how to demythologize and demystify in the same way that someone of your age would. A scientist would. Because you have information that most people don't have. Right. On purpose. Correct. Withheld from. Exactly. And in fact, that's one of the famous edicts from Arthur C. Clarke.

There you go. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. That's exactly right. And a lot of early magic was technology. And a lot of techniques that magicians used in the early days, even from things like mirrors or technological. Magic's good. That's really important geek cred. Exactly.

Thank you very much. I always, to prove it, I always have a deck of cards. This proves the geek cred. Is it a legit deck? Yeah, it's an old deck. It's all beaten up. That's what any magician would say. Yeah, it's a regular deck. It is. But yeah, I always have these with me

because I'm always maybe practicing that kind of stuff. That's good. That's good. Let me show you the one I did. I got one here. So I learned how to cut with one hand. Nice. No, I'm sorry. I'll do that. Yep. Very good. Oh, very good.

That's called a Charlier cut, by the way. Charlier? Uh-huh. That's what it's called. I'll show you a different version of that, too. I don't know if the camera can see me there. Yeah, they got you coming from here. See, if you cover like that, that's the six of hearts, and you lift like that, so it becomes the Joker. I don't know how it's done. Oh here. See if you cover like that, you know, that's the six of hearts and you left like that

So it becomes the Joker. I don't know how it's done, you know But that Joker would you take it back and you just spin around that becomes insane so I don't know cards just change like this I don't know how it works, so there you go. Another way to cut, all that kind of stuff. Here's a fun way to cut, too. That's a good one-handed cut. Ooh, yeah, that's what they do at the poker table. Exactly.

Because those are the guys that flip the chips. Yeah, you don't want to do this stuff at the poker table, by the way. It's how you're going to get shot. So in that last clip, we hinted at what magicians and scientists have in common. We have an understanding of a phenomenon that often a person looking on does not, except it's the scientist educator's duty to explain what's going on, and it is the magician's duty to hold it a secret. And so this is just a fascinating distinction between the two.

But in both cases, you can get people to laugh and enjoy science. Science demos are one of the most popular things in a college curriculum, be they in the physics class or in chemistry class, watching chemicals change color and all of this. Larry, in my interview, asked me if I had a favorite scientist. Now, I thought everyone in the universe knew who my favorite scientist was because it's easy. It's an easy answer for me,

but apparently he didn't know. So let's check out what he said. Okay, pound for pound. Who are you taking pound for pound? Smartness. You're in a room. You get to learn from one of these people. Newton?

Einstein? Newton. Newton. Newton, that's it. We're done here. That's it. We're done. Okay. I'll still hear you out. You realize this is my hand. This isn't actually

Newton. I will hear you out nonetheless. Go. I was just going to say Newton, Einstein, or I don't know. Who would you put? Da Vinci could go on that list. Leonardo. Galileo. They're all good people. Da Vinci? You'd put him on that list?

If it's a list where you want me to decide from, I would put him in that list. But I'm still picking Newton. I'm still picking Isaac Newton. Okay, all right. You just read what he wrote. The hair stands up on the back of your neck. He was connected. Yeah, no, he was the smart one.

To the universe. All right. He invented calculus. He's pretty smart. To the universe. He invented calculus. He's pretty smart. You got to have a lot of free time in your hands to invent something like calculus, by the way.

I'm just putting that out there. I don't know if he had much of a social life. He didn't. In fact, all evidence shows he died a virgin, actually. Really? So you figure that one out, too. When you're inventing calculus, it takes up a lot of your time. When StarTalk continues, Larry Wilmore and I geek out on Star Wars versus Star Trek on StarTalk. Star Talk is back.

We've got Eugene Merman, Scott Williams. Scott, with a book. Ha! I love saying that. Did you come up with the title? My wife came up with it. I have to give her that. I wish I could say I did. That's a great title, just talking about the science of laughter and comedy.

And I would feature my interview with Larry Wilmore. And we had to have our geek moments. Once I learned he was a geek, we had to go where geeks go. And one of those places is Star Wars versus Star Trek. And if you get into Star Trek, is it Kirk or Picard? We had to, yes, we went there. Let's find out how it resolved. I was a huge Star Trek fan. Star Trek.

Yeah, Star Trek fan. And Star Wars when it came out. First three, I should say. Of course. The original. Well, the only. Oh, okay. Very excited about the new one. I do a Lando impression ballet. I'll show you how geeked out I am. Is that right? Let me see. I do a Lando. I only say one phrase though. How you doing, Chewbacca? There you

go. So impressions are kind of a geeky thing that I do, too. I do a lot of impressions. And it helps you in the comedy club, too. Yes, exactly. If you don't have an impression, you need a place to go. It doesn't really help you in the bar scene, And it helps you in the comedy club too. Yes, exactly. If you don't have repression, you need a place to go. It doesn't really help you in the bar scene, but it helps you in the comedy club.

Your bar does. Hey, how you doing? Want to hear me imitate Chewbacca? Yes. That'll get you laid. My Lando Calrissian. Yes, exactly.

Okay, so then I have to ask you. Yes. Kirk or Picard? Kirk? It's not even close. Yeah, me too. Are you kidding me?

I love me some Picard. Don't get me wrong. The man, the actor, but if I had to be one of those, yeah. It's Kirk. Well, what's your main reason for that? Well, there's so many things. Top of the list. Give me one.

It's two 80s, you know, first of all. There's something just not right about it. Star Trek was its purest's two 80s, you know, first of all. There's something just not right about it. Star Trek was its purest in the 60s, and Kirk just represented just this. First of all, he's the purest American version of that Western id, you know. Man, you're getting all psycho-philosophical with this. Yes, you know, of just. My main reason was that he actually got into fights. Yes, but that's what it is.

It's a Western. He would fight. He is the damn captain of the ship. And he's fighting aliens. Correct, because the original Star Trek is a space Western. That's exactly what it is. And Picard, I don't think he ever laid a fist on anybody. It got very philosophical.

It got a bit too erudite. Erudite. But what beats this? Spock, bones, we love finding these. Way to go. I mean, come on. Damn it. Damn it, Jim. All that stuff

is great. My favorite moment, my second reason why I'd want to beat Spock, there's one of the episodes... Spock is your favorite? No, no, no, Kirk. My second reason, very close second for why I want to be Kirk. First is that he gets into his own fights. Yes.

And he can kick some butt if he has to. Yes. All right. Second, there was an episode, forgive me, I don't remember the name of the episode. Any Star Trek fan would know the name. Right. Like there's a Klingon vessel out the front window. Out the front window.

Roll down the window, Jake, can you move? On screen, or on window. On the screen, you're right. And so, out the dashboard, you know. They have that side dash too, so you didn't have to roll down the whole window, you just did that side. So you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, I know, they don't have those anymore, the little triangle window. I love those things. Gone, thing. So you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, I know. They don't have those anymore. The little triangle window. I love those things. Gone.

Gone. Plus you can angle it. I like angling the geometry of where the wind comes in. It's for people who are smokers. They could just do that kind of thing. I didn't know that. I'm just making that up. I'm just making it up.

Geometry lovers. Yes, exactly. So there's a scene where the Klingon vessel is threatening the ship. And the ship, its shields don't work. And they're going to say, we're going to destroy the ship. And so Kirk says, he makes something up. He says, we have, if you destroy the ship, it will explode. We will self-destruct and take you with us with a special code that I will type into the computer now.

And Spock knows he's full of s***, right? And Spock says, Jim, this is no time for a game of chess. And he said, Spock, it's not chess. It's poker. Come on. That was it. Come on. It's the bluff. It's not chess. It's poker. Come on. That was it. Come on. It's the bluff. It's the bluff.

That's Kirk. Yeah. That's Kirk. Okay. He's the only one that defeated the Kobayashi Maru. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because he cheated.

Let's celebrate the cheaters. So the genre, highly successful genre of science fiction, obviously it's based on science at some level, but also I think the best of the science fiction has some dose of comedy. And the comedy kind of gives you access to sort of the humanity of the characters, of the storylines. I think comedy is an important part probably of all entertainment or literature.

I mean, the good books. All storytelling. Yeah, storytelling involves comedy a lot just because it keeps people engaged. I mean, The Martian is a great example of that. Just because. Martian the book by Andy Weir. As you know, the book became a film, The Martian. And that lone astronaut left behind on Mars is Matt Damon.

And so he's cracking joke one-liners all the time. He has confrontations with hopeless situations. He must tap his scientific ingenuity to survive them physically. But it is rife with humor, which you get the sense he invokes to survive it emotionally. Now, it just so happens, through our crack team of internet connectors, we have Andy Weir on video, right now live. Do you guys have him live? Let's bring him up.

To Andy Weir, the author of The Martian. Andy. Hi, how are you doing? Andy Weir. Thanks for having me. Welcome to the whole of the universe. Well, you know, I don't know if you know this, but I actually, I sent you a copy of the book and a fan letter to you, like back before it had published and stuff. Okay, I got to check my, He's calling me out on national television.

This is when no one had ever heard of it, and I'm sure you get piles and piles of this stuff, so I didn't really expect a response. But I know this sounds like I'm kissing ass, but when I was writing the book, whenever I was tempted to use hand-wavy physics or take a shortcut and not be accurate, honestly, I thought to myself,

what if Neil deGrasse Tyson reads this? Well, I'm honored that I would give you such anxieties writing this story. Now, not everyone would have necessarily thought to put as much humor in it as you have. And so my question is, how did you come up with the idea that comedy would be what will be necessary to keep this guy alive on the surface? Well, it was kind of necessary because, you know, he's alone on Mars. And so a first person

narrative was pretty much critical. Otherwise, it'd be really boring. And then also, there's a lot of science that I wanted to explain to the reader and not assume the reader already knew. And I didn't want it to read like a Wikipedia article. So you've got to be funny. You've got to throw jokes in there and one-liners. And so basically, the whole book, he has this gallows humor, right, where he's like, well, I'm probably going to die today. So I wonder if you are opening up a new variation in a genre here. I don't know. I mean, every genre has comedic versions of it, right?

I mean, there are comedy action films. This is a comedy survival story. You can throw comedy into anything. So now it's one thing to say, let me put in a joke. It's another thing to be able to do that in the first place. Not everyone has that much comedy contained within them to give to a story such as what you wrote. Well, you're the first person who's ever told me I'm full of comedy.

Well, Andy, heartfelt congratulations from all of us at StarTalk to your success. So, StarTalk audience, give it up for Andy Weir. All right. Thank you. We've got to take a break. But when StarTalk continues, we're going to take your questions on the physics of science fiction. Check us out. We'll be right back. of science fiction. Check us out.

Star Talk is back! And right now we're going to feature our recurring segment called Cosmic Queries, where we actually take questions solicited from our fan base. And in this particular case, the topic is the physics of science fiction. And Eugene, you've got... I have a few questions. And I've not seen these. No.

So it's not about whether they... If I don't know the answer, I'll just say I don't know. But I haven't seen them. Yeah. yeah okay so i will be surprised yeah get ready i'm ready bring it on yeah all right nathan noble from seattle washington asks the story of ender's game uses a device called an ansible to communicate instantaneously across far galactic reaches. With the speed of light being a limiting factor for the travel of information as we know it, are there theories for faster-than-light or instantaneous communication? Oh, yeah, completely.

Oh, yeah. Next question. No details? It was a yes-no question. So, one, you can open a wormhole, and you can travel through the fabric of space and time crossing vast distances in much less time than it would take light to cover those same distances. Another way, which would be really cool,

is if you can quantum entangle objects at vast distances. And quantum entanglement, we can do this with particles, and it's a quantum physics phenomenon where one particle is quantum entanglement, we can do this with particles and it's a quantum physics phenomenon where one particle is quantum entangled with another so that they're sharing information simultaneously. What's the difference between that and dating? So if this one, if you change the information on this one, the information on the other one changes instantaneously no matter its distance. So it is, in fact, communicating at faster than the speed of light. Problem is, right now,

we can only do it for, like, particles. Quantum entanglement is a thing. It's a particle thing. And it's been done. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We got particle entanglement. That's not the issue. The issue is, since you are a collection of particles, Yes. Many, many particles. Agreed. To get all those particles to quantum entangle coherently. Right. With some other set of macroscopically assembled. Another Eugene somewhere else. Another Eugene somewhere else. We don't know how to do that. Yeah.

Well, I have some suggestions. Next question. Brian Zayak from Encino, California asks, Brian Zayac from Encino, California asks, please explain the difference between warp drive on Star Trek and hyperspace in Star Wars. Oh. Oh. You know, I don't know if I'm qualified for that.

I would say if you're not, then who is? No, because for a while I thought I really had the warp drive. But what's hyperspace? Because I think warp drive might be. Oh, hyperspace. It's just they go faster than light. That's all. Oh, really? Yeah.

So that is sort of explaining it. Yeah, but they don't... Through magic. In the hyperspace jump, there's no discussion of the warping of space. And they're talking about Star Wars, right? They're talking about both. Okay. They're asking how does the warp drive on Star Trek work, and then how does hyperspace

work? Hyperspace, which was first introduced in Star Wars. Star Wars makes no attempt to respect known laws of physics. So as far as they're concerned, they just went faster than light. And there's not this attendant conversation about the warping of space. Are you saying the Force is somehow made up? All right. Yes. of space. Are you saying the force is somehow made up? Alright.

Yes. Fair enough. Now, Larry Woolmore had a question for me. Let's find out. So let me ask you this. Mars. Mars. Is there a possibility that there could have been, I don't mean microbial life, but I mean actual intelligent like human life on Mars at one time?

Gone now, I say yes, gone now. Now extinct. Now extinct. I mean, could Mars have been inhabitable for a variety of reasons? Maybe the atmosphere is different. It's all broken down now. Okay, so much. All that kind of stuff.

So, I think about that often. And some people think life on earth may have started on mars and yeah then they get panspermia yeah it's called meteorites coming over yeah yeah yeah stowaway microbes yeah I know a little bit stuck in a thing coming across the planets starts here spawns there so here's an interesting thing about civilization. On Earth, if all humans left Earth today, you can ask, how long would you have to wait before there wasn't a trace of our existence here? You have to wait until the continents subducted, bringing entire cities with them into the lower levels of the Earth's crust. And in those zones, it's so hot, everything melts back, and it gets spewed out of a volcano again.

What's the time frame? For that, millions of years. Millions of years is not that long. Okay, so now watch. Mars is not as geologically active as Earth. Now. Now, but you have to go way, way far back. Millions of years.

No, billions. Oh, so now you're getting into billions. Billions, billions, billions. So I think it's unlikely on Mars. We would see settlements along the riverbanks that are now completely dry. Why would you lose a city but still have the dried riverbed that's there? That doesn't play. But we were relating it to what's here, though. Yes. How else can you do it? There's an alien city that evaporates when they're done

with it. I don't know. Evaporating cities. Self-destruct. That's cool. It's cool, but not likely. Cool, but not likely, precisely. When we come back, we're going to find out what Bill Nye's take is on comedy and see what kind of comedy mojo he carries with him on StarTalk.

We're back on StarTalk. We've been talking about the science of comedy. The science of comedy. And one of my best friends, Bill Nye, moved from Seattle to L.A. and now lives in New York. And he's a friend of StarTalk. And every show we try to catch up with him to see what he's up to and he did you know he got a start as a stand-up comedian? I did. You knew that? Yeah. Did you know that? Bill Nye? I did know that. Yeah yeah as a stand-up comedian and so he's got the timing

so he knows how to work a crowd how to how to be in front of an audience. And recently, he worked with some comedy improv folk. And he produced something called Sharing Science Through Comedy. Let's check it out. So we're now going to play a traditional, fabulous, classic improvisational game called Tap Out. We'll start with Jonathan. I'm a very simple man. I work at this ice cream place and nothing wows me because I'm bored. So here's your swirl. Chocolate vanilles.

My favorite. You're bored with ice cream? It's's got um it's got cold and we wouldn't have things this cold if without our fundamental understanding of the second law of thermodynamics that doesn't excite you yawn but the ice cream is made of the same stuff that you and i are the ice cream is made of the ancient stardust from exploding stars you and i are made of the ancient stardust from exploding stars. You and I are made of the dust of the cosmos. And yet, we are able to understand it and enjoy vanilla chocolate swirls at the same time. Whoa. That's a good ice cream flavor, dust of the cosmos.

See, you're more into it than you realize. What's happening there? Crystal ball. Just relax so that I can read your aura. I'm very in touch with the universe. I can... Now stop. Don't touch your aura. You're not the first person to tell me that.

Touch your aura, you'll go blind, Bill. So, can I ask you where we should look for the next supernova? Okay, give me just one second. God, that'd be cool. That way. You know, that guess is every bit as good as the best astrophysicist's guess. Nicely done. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Look here, Mr. Travel Agent. We're just a couple of creationists, and we just want to go somewhere, not some war. Yeah. Do you want to go to a warm place where people embrace the idea of creation or creationism? Or do you want your minds expanded and understand the scientific truth? I don't think we want that. I don't think we want our minds expanded at all.

No. No, no, no. We like two things. God and heaven. How about Jamaica? Okay. It's warm and beautiful there. And you can see layer after layer after layer of limestone from ancient seas 300, 350 million years old.

And you could look at the fossils and infer, along with Rubidium strontium dating, how old the world is. And you could have your whole evolutionary view brought into focus. Do they have a buffet? Maybe. Hey, you guys, give a hand for Carrie and Jonathan. We have proven beyond a shadow, which is also a scientific phenomenon,

beyond a shadow of a doubt, the hypothesis that science can be funny. Thank you very much. So, presumably, you guys have a favorite joke, and I want to know it before we close this show. Eugene. I don't think you do. Scott, favorite joke.

So a dog walks in a telegraph office and says he wants to send a message. The guy says, sure, what's your message? He goes, yeah, it's woof, woof, woof, woof, woof, woof, woof, woof. And the operator pauses and goes, you know, that's only nine woofs. You can send a tenth woof for free. And the dog says, yeah, but that would make no sense. I'm the scientist. I get a pass. Plus you have to explain what a telegraph office is to anyone under 50. I love the fact that when I tell that joke, people always bring up the telegraph, and they don't address it like it's a dog talking.

I know. Which is like a whole other science point, yeah. So we're out of time and possibly out of jokes. So, guys, thanks for being on StarTalk. Scott, Eugene, you've been watching StarTalk from the Hall of the Universe at the American Museum of Natural History, and I I've been your host Neil deGrasse Tyson your personal natural physicist and it is my duty and pleasure and honor to bid you to keep looking up