StarTalk Radio - #ICYMI - American Ninja Warrior: Science, Skills, and Strategy

Episode Date: May 24, 2018

In case you missed this episode on the Playing with Science channel… Enter the wild, high-flying world of American Ninja Warrior with hosts Gary O’Reilly, Chuck Nice, ANW hosts Matt Iseman and Akbar Gbaja-Biamila, Ninjas Drew Drechsel, Najee Richardson, and Joe Moravsky, and executive producer Anthony Storm.NOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free here: https://www.startalkradio.net/all-access/american-ninja-warrior-science-skills-and-strategy/Photo Credit: Ben Ratner Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to new episodes ad-free and a whole week early.

I'm Gary O'Reilly and I'm Chuck Nice and this is Playing With Science. Yep, we've been allowed out of the state. We've crossed state lines and we're on the set of American Ninja Warriors. You may hear some background noises because they are preparing for tonight's broadcast or broadcast taping. So we are going to be joined later in the show by Matt Eisman and Akbar Bajabiamila, who are the hosts of American Ninja Warrior.

And we'll also have the executive producer, Anthony Storm, Joe Moravsky, and Najee Richardson. Those names familiar? They should be. They are expert ninjas. First we caught up with American Ninja Warrior's host Matt Iseman and Akbar Bajabiamilia. Check it out.

All right, here we are with the host of American Ninja Warrior as we stand with the set behind us, Matt Iseman. Yes! Excited? That's right. And Akbar, wait, wait, Baja

Bijamili. Bijamili. Bijamili. Wakanda forever. Baja Biamili. Baja Biamili. Damn! Chuck Nietzsche, you almost got that. Chuck Nietzsche, almost! Oh, yeah. Okay. That's a hard last name to go, though. Yeah. Baja Bia Mile.

Yeah, man. I just got it now. Yeah. All I needed to hear was once. Don't worry. It took Matt like two years to say it. No, it doesn't. When he's that enormous standing next to you, you learn how to say his name very quickly.

That's a smart move. So let's focus on what we got behind us. You guys have been involved from day one, basically, but a long time if not. I started season two. Yeah, yeah. What's the evolution been like? And I have to ask you, out of the course designers, which for us are the scientists,

and the ninjas, the athletes, who's winning? The geeks or the jocks? You know, I would call it an even tie because every single year we've elevated our game on the course just because the ninjas have gotten that much better. I'd call it an even tie. Well, I would say as we look at the obstacles here,

the difficulty level has grown exponentially, and that's because the preparation has improved. When we started out, there was one guy who had obstacles in his backyard. Now, anywhere you go in the country, there's going to be a ninja gym, so these obstacles have gotten much harder, but you hit on a very good point about the mental preparation. These athletes don't get to practice. They don't know what they're going to face, so we talk about it all the time. People notice the physical, but it's the mental. It's the problem-solving ability, the ability to calculate how to get through the course efficiently, the scientific mind. That's who's really excelling.

So what I like about it is they don't get the time to sit and digest and analyze each obstacle. It's really got to be what are my physical assets and how good is my strategy. Well, you know, I would say it's like the preparation that they put throughout the year, I think it really comes down to their ability to believe in their subconscious and that all their training will allow them to be able to react and respond. The minute you start second-guessing yourself and you start doing all these different things, that's when failure happens. And look, fatigue happens and then all of a sudden you start doubting yourself,

whether you can or cannot handle the pressure. But from a scientific point of view, what's really interesting is if you run later, you could watch athletes go before you, but everybody's going to be different. So we'll have people from 4'10 to 6'7 out here, you know, ages 19 to 77. So they're going to be all different body types. So what works for one, you may see someone go through and think, that's how I could do it. But physiologically, that may not work for you.

So people have to go in and say I know my body type have a plan of attack but then be able to adapt on the fly so it's it's this unbelievable Rubik's Cube that's going through their head at all times absolutely when I look at the course though I got to say as a course designer I look at it and I'm like ninja please that was nice that was nice on That was nice, Chuck. That was good. That was good. See, on TV, I mean, I don't have to put a cup of tea down.

I've got cake. It's easy. It's simple. Yeah, that's the same as hosting. That's what we do. I'm stood on the starting line and thinking, I'm not making it out of the pool on the first obstacle. It's unbelievable.

Because when you get here, it is visually intimidating. I mean, just walking up, and think about the ninjas they've been preparing they're preparing and they're thinking to themselves when they step on the course what is it going to be what is it going to be what is it going to be and they don't know until they get here and then they start looking at it and you start psyching yourself out like how do you do this what is this i don't even know the name of it so it's just there's all these different they turn the cameras on and there's people there oh that's that's a mind blower that's you you got there. The lights are at their brightest, you get one shot. And you know you've spent the whole year.

And so it's this thing of, it's easier to do it when no one's watching. But as soon as the crowd is there and you see it, and you know if I make one mistake, my year is over. That's when the pressure ramps up. That's why mentally it's such a tough, tough sport. And speaking of that, lights, people watching, one shot. So the other night, Akbar did

the most incredible thing. I'm talking absolute brilliant media manipulation. This man purposely threw a baseball into the ground so he could end up on the news all over America. Tell me about that. Well, you know what? I'd like to probably run with that because right now my athleticism is being questioned all across America. Like, how did he play professional sport and he can't throw? Look, they don't have baseball anymore in the hood, man. I had never thrown a pitch ever, ever in my life. And I thought, you know, let me just add a little zip to this thing.

I'm going to make it like a 50, 60 miler. You know, that's not big. That's not impressive. I thought, you know, put a little pop to it and it didn't. I popped everything. I went from cheers to boo. I'm like, oh, man. Oh, dear.

Philly fans, they're rough. In Philly. What I love, though, what I love is Akbar just blamed his messed up pitch on segregated housing. He actually went with the Patriots excuse and he said that the football was deflated. The baseball was deflated and the baseball was deflated so let me ask you guys this when you look at this course what is the thing that you think you could do the easiest and what is the thing that you think you could never do uh well as I've learned probably none of it the floating steps I might have a chance at being a little bit taller

but other than that anything upper body strength I'd have zero chance at I know for this guy it'd be well we're gonna see this guy actually 24 get to compete. You gonna run the course? Oh man. Yeah, May 24th, Red Nose Day, I've decided to come out of the the host stand and get on to the course and actually take a shot at it. Hopefully I'll get a chance to redeem my athleticism on this run. But there's no baseballs on the course. Oh really? If now you mention, we might bring a few. But you know, the one that does look intimidating for me that I always get scared about is like the broken bridge. When they're separated and the platform is loose.

You've got to work the strategy out. You've got to get it together. Yeah, when you're heavy and you can tear something. Well, look, if your run goes like your first pitch did, he'll be dead. But it'll be for a good cause. Yeah, good for a good cause. Lose your athleticism to raise money. Yeah. Well, I think we're going to actually try the Warped Wall.

Nice! Yeah, I think we're going to go down there now and we're going to give it a... Well, that's a great scientific experiment, and that's one of the ones you need to talk to the ninjas, because it's actually a counterintuitive approach. You tend to lean into it it's actually leaning back about it so it's a really fun one to watch and and there's a great ninja off camera drew dreschel that's drew dreschel they call him the real life ninja so if you want to know how to run a warped wall you got to hit him up hey drew come here for a second and drew told me how to let's shake this get over here buddy all right so uh hey hey all right drew what's your last name dreschel drew dreschel and so how do we run the warp wall drew Talk me out of Lachey. Get over here, buddy. Talk me out of Lachey. All right. So, hey. Hey. All right.

Drew, what's your last name? Dreshel. Drew Dreshel. And so how do we run the warp wall, Drew? Well, first thing you don't want to do is run straight into it. A lot of people have a tendency to keep their chest down. Keep that chest up when you run. Okay.

Don't stop running. And when you feel like you can't run anymore, jump up. So basically, you've got to treat it like you're in a cartoon. Just try to run straight up the wall. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Right?

And then reach at the last second. You already sound like you already know what you're doing. No, I'm telling you. Okay a cartoon. Just try to run straight up the wall, right? And then reach at the last second. You already sound like you already know what you're doing. No, I'm telling you. Okay, cool. Have you never seen a cartoon when the bunny jumps off the cliff and it doesn't work and everything? The feet just keep spinning. Yeah, that'll be him. All you got to do is not look down because you don't fall until you look down. Once you look down, then it's over. Just don't look down. All right, I'm going to take your advice and hopefully it will work. Keep looking up, Neil would love it. I'll be over there, I'll be making sure you're all right. Okay, all right.

Hey Drew, thank you. All right, well guys, thanks so much. It's been a pleasure, thank you. Good luck. Yeah, without a doubt. Hey, what a pleasure, thanks. Matt, Akbar, it's a pleasure, man, thank you. Well, you can actually watch Chuck

attempting the wall at Chuck. Playing with science on Facebook and Twitter and attempting would be the right word. But up next, we sat down with the executive producer of the show, Anthony Storm, as well as real-life ninjas, Joe Moravsky and Najee Richardson. So, enjoy. Today, we're going to talk like a ninja, walk like a ninja, and maybe even be ninjas. Or maybe not.

No, we're not going to be ninjas. We're not. We're not even going to walk and talk like ninjas, to be honest. Let's be honest here. But we are going to get the man behind American Ninja Warriors. Yes! Executive producer Anthony Storm. Anthony, pleasure to have you on board here.

Thank you. Happy to be here, guys. It's great to have you here. We are on set, Chuck. We are on set. We are here behind us. For those of you who are not StarTalk All Access subscribers and you can't see the video, you should subscribe and see the video. We are on set, and behind us is the American Ninja Warrior Obstacle Course.

And it should be named the Torture Course. This is not an obstacle course. This is a torture course. This is a course that's been designed by a Bond villain with a white cat. Yes. This is a course that's been designed by a Bond villain with a white cat. Yes. This is pure evil. So, Anthony. You all very yes about it.

Anthony is stroking his white cat right now. So, tell us, man, seriously. First of all, you're the executive producer and the showrunner. And where did this come from? What are the origins of American Ninja Warrior? You're in your 10th season. How did this start and how did you come to it? The show started in Japan. The diehards of the show know that it started as a show called Sasuke in Japan. It was essentially just an obstacle

course competition show and it was very popular there and it's actually still running there. I think they're in their 34th season or something like that. It came over here, as you said, 10 years ago to the US. It started as a very small. Right. It was on G4, which was basically a teen boy channel. Around season five, it migrated part-time onto NBC, which had the same parent company as G4. Right. G4 ultimately became Esquire. There's a whole long history there that's not that interesting. But I joined in season six.

Okay. My background was in documentary and sports. I have worked at Olympics and Wimbledon's and Super Bowls and World Series and every major sporting event in every capacity of production. And then I spent a lot of years producing hour-long documentaries. I did a series called Beyond the Glory, which was a sports documentary series. I did a couple of seasons on sports science, which I'm sure you guys are familiar with. Yes, we are. documentary series. I did a couple of seasons on sports science, which I'm sure you guys are familiar with. And so it, it, what we did when I joined in season six, along with Brian Richardson,

the other showrunner is we grew the storytelling aspect of this show. We felt like for a broad national primetime audience on NBC that we needed to make it more of a broader show that appealed to men and women and kids and make it a family viewing show. And just as a sports show, it was very compelling, but it was very masculine. Yeah, and I noticed at that point, and this must have been when you joined, you guys brought in kind of like narrative arcs for all of the people who were involved

and gave them more of a background. You made them human is what you did. That's your documentary background coming from. That is my storytelling background. And that starts with casting and finding these people and and then it's it's the way we tell the stories and one of the big decisions we made in season six was to allow the athletes to tell their own stories so instead of using voiceover to tell you about them we put it in their own words um and then there's the you know they're of course editing styles and music

choices and all that but yeah we made this very much about the the competitors and their lifestyles and made them relatable and rootable. And so anybody watching at home is going to connect to somebody over the course of two hours. Absolutely. And I never, because I've been in television for a long time, I always say I've never fallen for that. But remember the little tiny woman that you guys had? I forget her name.

Casey Cuttinger. Casey, yes. Totally fell for it. Yes. You're not alone. Totally sucked me in. Yeah. Judging by the tens of millions of YouTube views her run has got, you're not alone.

So apart from engagement with the audience, unless you put, and I will call them athletes because they are athletes. They are beyond athletes put them to a point where they are beyond their limits or at the envelope of their limits the show doesn't work so how do you plot with pure evil to achieve this because i've looked along this course and every single thing is nuanced the easiest thing i've looked at is the first stage. And I know if I do that, I'm in the water by halfway down. So how do you get to think about it? And how do you engage with the science of it? Well, one of the challenges that people underrate on this show is the fact

that these athletes are seeing the course for the first time when they step up there to compete. So as you said, there's a lot of nuance. There's a lot of technique involved in achieving this. So given multiple opportunities, we'd see a much higher success rate. A lot of this, of course, there's athleticism involved in skills, but there's also quite a bit of technique. And so we really focus on creating obstacles that are challenging to you the first time you ever try it. We do quite a bit of research and development and quite a bit of testing at our shops back in Los Angeles, Southern California. Um, we also study the submission tapes of the athletes. So we have an idea of their skill sets and their strengths and weaknesses. And of course, we have an entire database of 10 years of competition to know what they're good at and what's going to trip them up. Um, and so when we're building a course, we're building a course

from, let's talk about a qualifying course from obstacle one through six which is going to progressively challenge them as they go along so the first obstacle is usually the easiest and the last obstacle is usually the hardest and so we in the course of those six obstacles we want to test every skill imaginable skill and as you said that's going to test upper body and lower body and balance and agility and grip strength you really stick the knife in and twist it when you hit the same muscle group maybe two stages in a row and we're usually trying not to do that right because you'll fatigue the person and then you actually build in kind of failure that's right and that's not good for tv no we have sort of a desired failure rate on every obstacle right yeah and we test enough that we can usually get close sometimes

the night goes much differently than anticipated and many more people fall at an obstacle than we would have expected and that's the nature of true competition but we do try to test multiple body parts fatigue them in different body parts throughout the course of the run. So do you start with, this is what will make an athlete fail and work backwards, trying to not come too far away from 100%? Or do you say to yourself, right, what can we do to stress athletes? Well, it depends on the obstacle. Normally, we prototype an obstacle. We do a couple of tests on it, and we notice right away whether it's too hard

or too easy all right and then that's where our adjustment begins we kind of know based on as i said our our intel what these athletes are capable of um but the other thing we have to factor in is are they capable of that if it's their first obstacle or if it's their fifth right absolutely and so we have to factor in the fact that they will have done multiple obstacles prior to that. So now with that in mind, let's consider, do you consider body type and rate to strength ratio because when I look at all of these, you know, I see, okay, somebody like myself for instance, I have a very large wingspan for a guy my size.

That means doing a pull up is really much, much more difficult for me than it is for somebody with shorter arms. But then you have reach. Some of these obstacles are in place for reach. So that reach would be an advantage. So now are you taking that kind of weight-to-strength ratio and keeping that in mind when you're doing this? There's a lot of things like that we keep in mind. Number one is trying to build obstacles that don't favor taller athletes or for that matter, shorter athletes. Trying to build obstacles that don't

favor men versus women. Trying to build obstacles that don't favor light people versus heavy. There are some variables we can't account for. Generally, it's better to be lighter on this course. You're holding your body weight up for a long time. It's better not to be holding too much weight. But using balance obstacles as an example, it's very difficult to build an out balance obstacle that doesn't favor people with long legs because the less steps you have to take to get from one side of the pool to the other, the less times you have the opportunity to fall down. Absolutely. So the thing is that you're looking at a guy that turns up or a girl that turns up and they're totally ripped, bulging with muscles, isn't necessarily the advantage and the way to burn the course off. No, we've seen, let's talk about CrossFitters.

We've seen many CrossFit champions come on our course and flail terribly. It's just a different skill set. It is. Ninjas and CrossFitters are different athletes. We've had tons are different athletes. Right. We've had tons of professional athletes. We're going to have Jason Avant, who played wide receiver for the Eagles for many years, is going to come out here and compete tonight. And I'm curious to see how he does, because he is an elite professional athlete. And he's been training ninja, but not as

long as our athletes. Now, will he have to catch footballs while he's doing the course? Because if he doesn't, I will be disappointed. That would be an advantage for him. Somebody should just be throwing footballs at him the entire time. That we know he can do. Why are you still a disgruntled Eagles fan? I can't be any happier. But listen, it's a new season. I'm already over last season.

That's a true Eagles fan right there. So, I'm looking at this. All of these things are never seen before and therefore they have to be custom. Do you guys have engineers, and do you have course designers specifically? Yeah, we have engineers. We work with a company called ATS. They build and design our courses.

The actual development of the obstacles comes from us, so the production team, along with ATS. And in the last two years, we've had suggestions sent in by the fans. We have an obstacle design challenge, and people can send in designs. And we've used, I'd say, probably 10 of those on the course, which is really exciting because a lot of them are sent in by kids. So we've had obstacles that have played tremendously that were sent in by 8-, 9-, 10-year-olds. So another level of engagement with your audience.

Yeah, it's great. And we get hundreds of those submissions. Speaking of 8- and 10-year-olds, and I know we've got to take a break, but very quickly, I have seen the influence of this show popping up in playgrounds around different communities. Do you guys have anything to do with that,

or is it just the part that you've melted into the zeitgeist that much? It's just the influence of the show, and it's not just playgrounds. It's gyms. You know, they're popping up in every city in America and more and more every day. And I think people have just found that this is a fun way to exercise. You know, it's not repetitive. It's not redundant.

And you can achieve things. So at the end of a certain period of time, you can say, I used to not be able to do this many, but now I can do that many. Or I couldn't get through the winglets and now I can. Right. If we take a step back from the physicality of the warrior challenge, if I don't have strategy, if I don't then engage my mind first, I will fail. And how do you build that mental obstacle course as much as you build the physical one? Well, I can tell you this much. When you look at the course, I have failed.

That's okay. I don't care how good I am at anything. I would look at this course and say, I failed. Yeah. I mean, the only way we factor in the mental aspect is in, if we expect a certain amount of people to succeed on an obstacle, we scale our expectation back by 20%, knowing that 20% of those people

that should succeed will fail simply because they're under the lights, they've psyched themselves out, or they're going to make a bad decision. Do you then have, when you design an obstacle, the ultimate strategy of how a ninja will solve the problem? And then are you surprised by the ninja that solves it in a totally different way? Oh, we love that. There's nothing better for us than seeing someone get through an obstacle

a way that we had never expected or anticipated. And it's fascinating for a viewer too. You know, we sort of safeguard against cheats because we really want the obstacles to be completed the way they were intended. But sometimes someone figures something out that's just mind-boggling. Just can't create it.

Or out of necessity. They're about to fail and they have nothing left in the tank and so they figure out a way to get through in a way we never could have expected. And we love that. Fantastic. I know we gotta take a break. We are.

But we're coming back with more. You're sticking around, right, Anthony? Of course. Oh, when we come back, not just more Anthony, but a ninja himself, Joe Moravsky. Joe Moravsky. One and only Joe Moravsky. Stick around, we'll be back shortly.

Welcome back to Playing With Science, Gary O'Reilly, Chuck Norris. EP of American Ninja Warrior, Anthony Storm, and the last man standing. Joe Moravsky. Yes. In the, I would say the building, but we're outside.

Yeah. On the set. We like to say last ninja standing because it's not always going to be a man. It's not always going to be a man. That's right. Thank you for correcting me. There you go. Last ninja standing.

Hashtag me too. Yes, thank you. Showing up right here. I'm right. I'm right if so. Okay, Joe. So how do you do this, man? Yes.

How does this even come about? I mean, seriously. I mean, like you're a ninja now, okay? Did you wake up one morning and go, yeah, ninja time. You know what? Yeah. It had to be that right time in my life, of course, because, you know, I was going to school, uh, back in Connecticut for meteorology back in the day, of course, can't believe it's many years ago now at this point, but, you know, I just had that moment in time where everything kind of came together and I said,

I was sitting on the couch, like everyone does at home watching this show. And I was like, mom, I really think I can do this. And she was, you know, a little sarcastic tone. She was like, yeah, I'm sure you could, honey. Good for you, son. What? Mom, you're supposed to support your son. You know what I mean?

Yeah. But the good news was, you know, everything fell together. You know, I had this nice weatherman background. It was very unique. And I almost probably came off as a novelty act where people thought it'll be funny to see this guy run the course. But sure enough, I was a real athlete. People didn't take me seriously until they saw it. You're involved as a meteorologist. You have very much a scientific

background. Yeah. Advantage or disadvantage when it comes to working this course? And do you ever bring science to what you're doing? Definitely. Oh, there's so much that goes into this science-related. You know, the first thing I think of immediately is I go live in front of, you know, who knows how many people on the given day doing the weather. And that's sometimes more nerve-wracking than this because this is taped. You have a little opportunity. Let's say if I trip and fall on my face, hopefully they'll edit something out like that. No. Probably not.

Anthony says no. He's like, that's called television gold. That's too good. That's too good. You need face planning? Are you kidding me? We need that. Oh, my face. Hopefully they'll edit something out like that. Probably not. Anthony says no. That's too good. That's too good. Are you kidding me? We need that. But you know, when it comes to doing the weather, there's no second chances. It's right there. If you stumble or faint or something, yeah, that's it. And yeah, not to mention that, of course.

With that all in mind, of course, I'm able to handle this a little better. But I was just, before coming on camera here, I was looking at the weather forecast for tonight. Because I know we have some showers around. It's going to be dicey, I think, a little later after midnight tonight. And then tomorrow, especially for the finalists that make it that far. Right.

That thunderstorm is all day tomorrow, right? Yeah, it'll be interesting. Anthony, how do you build a course to get the best out of this guy? It's funny because our elite athletes are always at the forefront of our mind. You know, how are we going to push these guys? There's such a spectrum of athletes that compete on this show. You know, everything from 65-year-old grandfathers to this year, 19-year-old superstar athletes. And, you know, and Joe is amongst the elite, of course.

His history proves it. And Joe is amongst the elite, of course. His history proves it. So we've got to find a way to build courses that somehow challenge that really wide spectrum of athletes. But, you know, Joe pushes us. What Joe is able to do forces us to create more difficult obstacles. And Joe can talk about Season 6 versus Season 10. The obstacles get harder every single year because these guys get better. So talk about the, how do you find these people?

I mean, what's the process? Look at Joe. He's a good-looking guy. He's an athlete. Thank you. You know, he's great. We're talking to him. He's great in an interview.

Is any of this stuff a consideration? Yeah. Yeah. Sure. I mean, it's a television show and a sport, and so we've got to find that balance of people that can speak eloquently and tell their story. Yeah. And so we're, we're casting to find people that, that hopefully have a story to tell something that the viewer at home is going to connect with and can, you know,

make their way through part of the course at least, and hopefully conquer it. You know, and then we also want to have these superstar athletes, You know, Joe has a very full life. He's got a family and a job and all these things to talk about, which is terrific. Some of our great athletes are pretty much just athletes, and that's okay, too. Because, you know, our audience wants to see everything. They want to see superstar athletes at their best, and they want to see people they connect with. And hopefully on a good night, we bring them all of that. What do you feel your audience connects with better?

The already storied superstar athlete yeah or where did this guy come from wow i mean i think they connect to all of it you know we have such a diverse audience that i think there's something for everybody um there's a lot of kids watching our show i think that they connect with the other kids and so they see a father or a mother and they see the kids on the sideline and they say i wish that were my parent up there doing that. And then, of course, the younger athletes connect with our athletes and they say,

I wish I could do that or I wish I had an opportunity to be on the show and do that. I mean, I know I, as a viewer, connect to almost all of our athletes. When I'm watching the show in the edit bay, I feel something for almost everybody we put on air. It's amazing, isn't it? So, Joe, let's go back to you.

Physically, yeah, I don't think we have a doubt about you being able to cope with most of it but without your first approach mentally how would you survive i mean and how do you build that in do you look at each obstacle and go got it i got my strategy I need to know how to conquer this. And you know, through your own physical assets that you can do that. Or if you can't quite, how do you work around it? Well, you know, it's interesting. I really, I like to talk about growing up and I was, you know, I was just in Sherman, my hometown, Sherman, Connecticut, doing this exact thing I used to do as a child. I used to go down this little stream down by my house and jump from rock to rock. Something so simple yet so scary and so real. Yeah, yeah.

You know, and looking at this course, sometimes you have to think of it like that. You're just trying to stay out of the water. Don't overthink things. Sometimes it's as simple as that. That's pretty cool. And so, you know, when I keep that in mind and I just try to remind myself it should be instinct at this point for me. I've been doing it as a kid. To look at the course and come up with a plan, of course that's what we want to do

and be able to have that opportunity to do. But sometimes you don't have a very long time to look at it and to game plan, so you've just got to keep it simple. Right. So let me ask you this. Have you ever had an obstacle that kind of, I don't know, that kind of ate your lunch psychologically. It's just like, what is it about this thing?

It should be the simplest thing for me. I'm a rock climber. Why can't I just hold on to that one little thing? I don't understand it. Anything like that ever happen? We have Anthony Storm here. I don't want to give him any insight. I have the tape.

I've already seen the tape. Oh, you're like, that's ammunition, right? I don't want him to know. No, you know what? Honestly, every individual obstacle for me is very doable. There are a few that we haven't seen yet that have been in Japan on their version of the show, Sasuke, that haven't aired or been on the course here yet. I know it's just a matter of time until we probably see something from there.

Yeah, he knows exactly. Oh, he's done? I didn't want to see it. He just dove up Joe's kryptonite. Exactly, he's doing it. He just dove. He just dove. He just dove Joe's kryptonite. Exactly. That's what he did.

Anthony just put both hands up as if he was gripping, like, a bar. It's a vertical grip like this. A reverse grip. So he knows. This is not good that he knows that. It's really, it's the ninja's kryptonite. Every single ninja kind of despises what we call the vertical limit. It's this ledge, and think of a 2x4,four, but on the back of the two-by-four is a centimeter or so

that you just get your fingertips over, and you have to rely on this pitch to traverse it. The Japanese athletes tend to be very light, and so the obstacle isn't as challenging for them. It's, of course, still challenging, but when the Americans go over and they have some muscle mass, it's a little more difficult for them to get through that. So this is almost replication of a rock climbing.

A very strong fingertips, that's for sure. Make sure you warm up. It's every part of the body's up for grabs as far as you're concerned as a course designer. Yeah, I mean, fingertip strength is one of the keys to our course. And, you know, I'm sure Joe could talk about some of the bizarre ways these guys train those muscles, but they're literally training the pads on the tips of their fingers to have that strength to get through the course. What is one of the things that you do, Joe? You know, obviously a lot of repetition of rock climbing. That's key. That's key. Yeah. A lot of

the best climbers, a lot of the best ninjas rather, are climbers. You know, you look back at our USA versus the world competition. We go against Sean McCall every year, one of the world's best rock climbers. And he destroys the course, for the most part, every single time. Doesn't mean every rock climber is going to be that good, but you've got to look back. Season 7, our very first winner of the million-dollar prize. Who was it? Isaac Caldiero, one of the world's best rock climbers.

So, you know... So now, is that because rock climbing is not just strength, it's also agility, but it's also balance? Like, there's, like, the overall... People think of balance as something that stand like you're standing, but balance has to do with all different parts of your body and all different body stances in order for you to have correct balance. Is that part of it? Oh, footwork and body position. It means so much in the world of climbing and the world of

Ninja Warrior. Right. Certainly there may be some harder things in the Ninja world versus the rock climbing world and vice versa, but you know, when you're on a really hard climb inverted and you have to do what's called a flag or you dip your leg across your body or you drop your knee into a knee bar, there's so many, or a drop knee, there's so many different techniques

that can translate to something on this course that'll help you. So you know, the joke is, I don't know if it would be considered a joke, but you know, the rock climbers have the skill to get there and to win, but they never do because they can't get through some of the more parkour-based obstacles,

like striding or lacheying through the air. A lot of them don't prefer that type of motion. Lacheying? Lachey. Lacheying. That sounds like, Chuck, that sounds very much like sashay. Hey, work it.

It's what I'm saying. Chuck Nice on the course, okay? Watch and learn. Pizzas. Anyway. Somehow, I just did not think you'd resist that. Of course I couldn't. So let's take you back to the first time you walk out on set here.

Now, you know from the physical aspect, whatever you dial up, I'll handle it. But there's TV cameras, and there's people who know you, and they're watching. How does that now crowd that most important space a bit between your ears? You know, I think the most important time for me preparing-wise, and this probably goes for everybody, is the moments before. You know, before you run, even the hours before. You have to juggle those thoughts before you step up to that starting block.

You have to. Because if you don't think about the pressure before, it's going to hit you too hard there and you might make a mistake. I like to really think about everything. The fans, the cameras, the millions of people watching, the middle of the night that we're filming. I think of everything.

I get nervous, and then I let it go. So, okay, it's a night shoot, and it's not early in the evening. It's early in the morning. You're playing with biorhythms. You've now got a different—you're evil. You're an evil person. I'm filming this at this time of the day. He's pointing at Anthony right now.

Is there a reason for the early morning shoot? It's just we need to shoot all through the night in order to get all our runners through the course. Yeah, and not because you just want to play with the guys' biorhythms as well. No. No, I mean, they've actually done a remarkable job over the years of shifting their sleep patterns in the week preceding competition. So Joe can speak to it more, but most of the ninjas start staying up all night,

a few days or even longer before competition. They sleep during the day. So that by the time competition comes around, their biorhythm is correct for that. How amazing. See, there's no attention. It's an attention to detail. Nothing is left.

Yeah. You know, I'm strengthening my fingertips. I'm getting my sleep patterns right. Right. Yeah, two things I work on all the time. Strengthening my fingertips and getting my sleep patterns right. So let I work on all the time. Strengthening my fingertips and getting my sleep patterns right. So let me tell you, let me say, Anthony where do you see this course?

I mean clearly you guys are going to be on for another ten seasons with no problem. Where do you see this going? It's already grown so much. I mean I can't tell you how many countries we're in right now but I can start naming them and it goes on forever. Ninja Warrior is literally in nearly every country in the world right now.

In Asia, Europe, South America, every part of the world. Australia was a huge success in Australia. So it continues to grow worldwide. As we talked about, it's continuing to grow domestically in the gyms. There's gyms in every city now, multiple gyms. And there are companies that are starting to spread like wildfire. And we have a kid's show coming out. Oh!

So you will see athletes ranging from 9 to 14 years old taking on a little bit smaller versions of these courses. Cool. There's already a team version of this show, and so, you know, there's room for growth. Is that the legacy? A fitter, more... I hope so. Athletically intelligent...

Country? You mean instead of the big nacho-eating mess that we are now? I hope so. You said that. If that's the legacy, we'll be very proud to have had something to do with it. The fact that there are kids watching this show that are going into the gyms at ages earlier than they normally would have

and then bringing their parents with them if someone's got to take them and pay the membership dues, that is terrific for society. You know, the fact that anybody is watching our show and getting up off the couch to try to do what these athletes do is tremendous. That's cool. We've got to wrap this session up, but we're coming back, right? We are coming back,

but thank you to executive producer Anthony Storm. Joe is going to stay with us. I'll hang out. We are going to hang out, but we're going to be joined by another ninja. Najee Richardson will join us, and yeah, stick around. We'll be back shortly.

Welcome back. I'm Chuck Nice. And i'm gary o'reilly and that's confused you know you're good it has yes and this is playing with science and we are down on the set of american ninja warrior in philadelphia and we have with us two ninjas not just any nin. Two of the best. One Philly's favorite and that is Najee Richardson. And staying with us from a previous segment is Joe Moravsky who is from Connecticut. Yes. And down here The last ninja standing. The last ninja standing.

Yeah. So guys I think we asked Joe this but Najee how did you come like did you just start jumping on your bed And then you started, went to parkour And now you're like, gotta be a ninja How did it happen for you? It starts like that for everyone I feel like

But I was a gymnast, I did gymnastics for over 11 years And when my career ended from an injury I saw one of my buddies pop up on TV He was an old teammate, he was doing this It was season 6, so I gave him a call Reached out, he was building a gym at the time called the Gravity Forge in Hatboro, PA. He let me come in, try some of the obstacles, and I was hooked instantly. Wow. I didn't even know that story.

Yeah. Dan Galavisky. Wow, that's really cool. I had no idea. So the gymnastics element of it, you'd have felt comfortable with what you were asked to, again, perform. Right. of it you'd have felt comfortable with what you were asked to again perform right and yeah for me it was a lot of muscle memory like a lot of the flying obstacles where i'm throwing myself from one obstacle to the other that was muscle memory yeah a lot of what you do in gymnastics is just flying through the air i mean that's my nickname so um that part of it came very natural the things that i had to work really hard for was grip strength in gymnastics we literally have grips on our hand so that it's easier for us to hold onto the bar yeah a little

rosin doesn't help doesn't hurt either not at all so um it was hard for me to build that grip strength initially but after a few you know years in the sport kind of got a good handle on it joe what nudgee is saying about muscle memory a a guy can have, or a female athlete, a ninja turns up, they'll be strong, they'll be weight strong. But is it so much about actual conditioning of the muscles themselves that is so vital here? Oh, yeah. And, you know, it's interesting for Najee and a lot of these, you know, Olympic gymnasts, they come out from a sport that they're an elite member of that particular sport. It's hard for them, I feel like, because they've trained their body to do things one way. For example, Lachey, Najee won't say this because he's too modest,

but he's one of the greatest guys when it comes to flying through the air. That's why he's the flying phoenix, you know, and he's so good at it. And I have to imagine it's because he's, you know, he's just this high-level gymnast, or used to be this high-level gymnast. You've got some of it still left in you. I know, you know, a little bit, but you know, he's able to translate his, his gymnastics background so well. And a lot of people have a lot of issues doing that because they have trained so long for their body to do one thing that it's hard to break those habits.

Yeah. So let me ask you guys, when you look at this course, not this particular course over the time that you've been a ninja warrior what is the one obstacle that you overcame and you were like yes i did it i did suck it yeah right for me oh yeah please for me it was the salmon ladder the salmon ladder salmon yeah the salmon ladder That took me out my second season. Now, just so that for the people at home who may not know, there's a bar, and then you have an ascending

rungs. But they're notches. They're not really rungs. It's one bar that you have to actually unhinge the bar, raise it up, put it back in the next slot, and then engage it so that you have to actually unhinge the bar, raise it up, put it back in the next slot, and then engage it so that you can pull yourself up, right? Yes.

Okay, so go ahead about that. Yeah, for me, I fell on that my second season. That took me out, and that was something I was very comfortable with doing in the gym. That was one of my favorite obstacles to train. So come showtime, I fell on it. Really, God, it bothered me. It bothered me for a good year. And when I got back to Vegas, that's all I thought about.

I was just mentally disturbed at that point. So what do you think? Because physically, you're capable. That's not a doubt. Right. So what was the change? What happened? Was it cameras, lights?

I think when you get very comfortable in an obstacle, you kind of just take it for granted a little bit. You don't really take into consideration the things that could go wrong, maybe getting one side up higher than the other. You're just kind of going off, again, muscle memory. And sometimes that can play a huge factor into the obstacles because here they're built differently than they are in the gyms. And, you know, it's funny you say that because many elite athletes make that, like think of professional receivers on a football field,

and you see them drop a ball. You're like, how did he drop that ball? And then the slow motion replay, you see the guy is actually turned and started looking up field before he caught the ball. Because in his mind, that catch was so easy, he already caught it. It's routine for these guys yeah so that's kind of what happened to you that's exactly what happened to me took it for granted i was like i do this all the time like it should be easy didn't think about it and then it took me out

but it's a great life lesson especially for this sport not to take any one of these obstacles for granted no matter how many times you've done them because at any moment it can take you out and joe what was your obstacle you were just like i did it, the first year I was on the show, I fell on stage three in the Vegas finals, which it was just an achievement to get that far. Most athletes never even get stage three. I did it my first year. Yeah. So that was a good start. It certainly helped me get to where I am today and put a lot of confidence in my mind, which is very important by the way, as we know. But I fell on an obstacle called the floating doors. Floating doors.

Floating boards, but floating doors. Imagine a door with no handle, and you're not allowed to grab the top. I know. I saw Titanic. And they're hanging there. Yeah. You've got to pinch. You've got to pinch. Imagine doing this at home.

Don't do it because it would probably break the hinges off. But trust me, I've learned the hard way. You can get on the door just by pinching your hands and your feet. And that's it. You have to move to the next door, shift your body to the next, and the next, and the next. And I fell on the very last door. And I'll tell you what.

You want to talk about psyching yourself out. I trained that obstacle all year. And that was my first real moment because it was my second season then to come back and try to do it again. That was my first real opportunity at, you know, righting a wrong. Right. And I did well, and obviously the rest is history, so. And then I look at this course,

and there's no doors on it. Thank God, thank goodness. Thank God. Thank goodness. Okay, we talked about, Najee, and your gymnastics background. But Joe has that kind of, you've all got your secret ninja skills.

Right. The scientist, the weatherman, the guy that can tell you if it's gonna rain, and how do you look at it and think, is that an advantage to you? Is that something you think, yeah, really, could that be a skill that I could acquire? Is it something, how do you feel about that?

Has he ever shared some weather secrets with you before a match? He doesn't share any weather secrets with me. Nobody asks. They don't care about the weather. They just care about when I get the weather wrong. That's really the only time they care. He'll psych us out and be like, guys, it's going to rain today.

Like, really, Joe? Come on. And then we're psyching ourselves out and then it doesn't rain. I'm like, oh, you did that on purpose. You did that on purpose to take us out of the game. Psyching you out. So how much further do you think this can go in terms of how they're pushing you mentally and physically with these particular tasks? Well, you know what?

mentally, and physically with these particular tasks? Well, you know what? Looking at Sasuke, the Japanese version of the show, the original show, they're kind of the leader in this sport because they've been doing this, I can't even, 20 years? 30 years is a long time. Is it 30? 30 seasons maybe, but 20 years. Because they do a few seasons per year sometimes.

And, you know, they are ahead. We've seen, we talked with Anthony earlier, you know, the, the vertical limit, that obstacle, we don't, we haven't seen it yet. Right. Not just shaking his head already. No thanks. Unfortunately, but they can have that one. They can keep that over there. A lot of things that can change over time. Fortunately for us, we can see that and prepare for that. And we are preparing, we've done vertical limits. We've done things like that before, but, uh, got to be ready you got to be physically and mentally ready you guys do not get to practice on the course right i wish that would be great that's a hard thing about being a ninja versus gymnastics too is during gymnastics we literally get to practice our

routine before the competition and you know exactly what the uh the apparatus is exactly we know how the high bar feels how tight it might be you know we get to practice the width of the pommel horse things like that we literally get to feel the obstacle or the um event first before we actually compete and here you just you got to go you know you have no time to prepare oh literally got butterflies you said gotta go my heart sank the rules guy on the course he's always telling us he gives us a countdown and after a certain amount of time they're like gotta go jo to go, Joe, got to go. And you're like, oh, your heart just dropped. So when you hear him say that, I'm sick already.

I don't want to do this. I just look at this and think, right, there is a physical limit, but you don't quite know what it is yet. Because every time they invent a new obstacle, you guys find the solution. So you kind of got this synergy where you push each other to find a new way to elevate the thing. So, Chuck, should we reinvent the course?

What could we do? What we like to do here is make sports better by giving our own little caveats and twists. Maybe not better. Yeah, well, it's better for me because it ends up in more injuries. Sorry. Oh, jeez. See, I'm a spectator.

I'm a spectator. So I have no interest vested in safety, okay? You want some entertainment value. That's it. You got to like it. Just think of me as an ancient Roman. You know what I mean? I'm like, when are the lions coming?

Okay. That could make it a little more interesting. Throw a lion behind you. Well, my point is this. So, first of all, you guys have water hazards. Right. Let's make it interesting. Talking about piranhas and sharks, alright? Sharks with lasers. Boom. Sharks with lasers. You've got to have sharks with lasers.

Let me ask you this. Are you confident on anything on this course that's a water hazard that you would do with an unfed shark swimming in a pool beneath you? Wingnuts. Which wingnuts? The wingnuts are over there. It's right after this balance obstacle. I would do that.

Okay. That's like the little bicycle thing that you hang on as you go from, and you go from one to another. Yep. You got three of them up there. You got three of them that you go to. And there seems to be like a drop there so that you're having a big jolt from one stage to the next in there. It almost looks like that. I think it might be an illusion from where we're sitting.

They're pretty straight across. They are pretty straight across. But they're, you know, I don't know how many feet. They don't tell us that. They don't tell us. It's far. I'm surprised he said that. You're actually confident enough that you would do that with a shark underneath you?

I would do it with the wing nuts. Good for you, man. I would do it with the wing nuts. I'm confident. No way. I would do it with the wing nuts. Good for you, man. I would do it with the wing nuts. Wait a second. I'm confident. No way. I would do it with the wing nuts for sure. I would do obstacle number one.

Hands and feet. Hands and feet. Obstacle number one. That's what you would do. All four limbs staying on. What we do now is we test this young gentleman's confidence and drop some blood. Let's do it. I'm down.

Let's go. In the water. Yeah. See, Najee must know that he's not delicious. See, I would never do that. I would never do that. Sharks try to get out of the water to eat me. Are you kidding me?

Is that tough? I am so hungry. Oh, man. We got to wrap it up? We have. You guys are really good. Yeah, thank you. Appreciate it.

Thanks for your time, man. Thank you. It's such a pleasure to have you. And listen, good luck to both of you tonight. The way this works is if you finish and you are in a certain time, you just move on, right? Is that it? Yeah, top 30.

Top 30 move on unless we have more than 30 finishers, which rarely happens. And then it goes by time, right? Yes. I prefer this the fastest. Hoping that both of you guys advance and definitely kill the course tonight, man. Kill the course. Yeah, yeah. There's good camaraderie between everybody.

We've got all the ninjas. Just so you guys at home know, so who were all the guys coming through? There was a huge contingent of guys coming through all shaking your hands and saying what's up. And those are testers? Those are testers. And what are they going to do? They're going to actually try and run the course just to see what?

Just to warm it up? Well, I mean, they prepare production with maybe different camera angles or make sure the obstacles work, although they've done that already in the past few days. So in the kind of television that I do where you just sit down, they call those stand-ins. Well, we can call them our stand-ins. Yeah, of course. Maybe they're run-ins.

They're run-ins. There you go. Testers. That's cool. Yeah. Joe, Najee, thank you. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you.

I mean, I sat and watched it at home, right? And I'm thinking, respect to the athletes because they're athletes. I can't look at you and not think of you as athletes, whether they're girls, boys, teams, or whatever it is. But now on set, I'm looking at these obstacle courses.

It's a whole other game. And what looks like it could be doable at home. No. It looks like impossible in person. And let me just tell you, I'll echo what he said, but I'll be a little less polite. I'm sitting at home like, what's the big damn deal? Okay? Anybody can do that. That's how I was. Yeah, I'll be a little less polite. I'm sitting at home like, what's the big damn deal? Okay, anybody can do that.

That's how I was. Yeah, that's good. You need that. Now, jumping and catching a rope, that might be a little tough, but I could do that. And now I'm here, and the easiest thing on this course is terrifying. I mean, it is literally terrifying to go up there and look at that. It's insane. When I get the feeling of having, I've walked the course

and that's as close as I'll get to being a ninja. This isn't challenging me just physically. If I were physically capable to complete this, the psychological, the mental, the strategizing, the fact that the guys that have developed and designed this course have designed it in a way to test muscle groups at certain stages of the course right and if i am lucky enough to get to the very

end there's that wall of death thing there's that big surprise they are just they must just sit back laughing and giggling it really is supreme athletic physical and mental challenge yeah you guys should be proud of yourselves. Yeah, absolutely. You have to be in peak condition to do this. And I would say young, but then there was a 60-year-old guy that did it. And I was just like, F that dude.

He's making you look bad. He's making everybody look bad. Somebody needs to get rid of him. You want to be like him when you grow up. Well, that's our show, Chuck. And it was a good one, I got to tell you. Yeah, great fun being on set here at American Ninja Warrior. All the noise, all the buzz,

all the hubbub. And thank you to, obviously, Najee, Joe, the two ninjas, Anthony, the executive producer, Anthony Storm, and, of course, the two hosts. And if you want to tune in, find out and see for yourself, Chuck, when is it on and where is it?

Mondays at 8 on NBC. That's where the action happens. If you have never, ever thought about watching American Ninja Warriors in the past, give it a go. There's a lot more science in it. There's a lot more going on than you would ever, ever think.