StarTalk Radio - #ICYMI - Extended Classic: The Science of “The Catch”

Episode Date: December 28, 2017

Was it skill? Was it science? Chuck Nice and Gary O’Reilly investigate Odell Beckham Jr.’s one-handed catch, with Joe Bevier of Nike, coach Jay Norvell, and physicist John Eric Goff. Now extended with Chuck, Gary and John answering Cosmic Queries about size vs. speed and the impact of the Magnus effect.Don’t miss an episode of Playing with Science. Subscribe to our channels on:TuneIn: tunein.com/playingwithscienceApple Podcasts: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/playing-with-science/id1198280360GooglePlay Music: https://play.google.com/music/listen?u=0#/ps/Iimke5bwpoh2nb25swchmw6kzjqSoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/startalk_playing-with-scienceStitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/startalk/playing-with-scienceNOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to new episodes ad-free and a whole week early.

I'm Gary O'Reilly and I'm Chuck Nice and this is Playing With Science. All right today we are talking about football and the science of catching. Not just any old catch but possibly of catching, not just any old catch, but possibly the greatest catch of all time. The Odell Beckham Jr. one-handed touchdown grab from 2014. And the science will be courtesy of physicist and author Eric Goff. He will be coming up shortly. But the show will not end there, not at all. We shall examine the glove tech with Joe Bevvier from Nike's innovation design team.

Now, that's going to be interesting. That'll be new for everybody. And then drill down to the nuts and bolts of wide receiving with one of the most renowned wide receiver coaches, Jay Norvell. You know what, Chuck? Yeah. I really like the sound of this show. I might even hang around for it. By the end of this show, people, you will be able to play wide receiver in the NFL.

That's what we're saying. So get the kids and gather around because guess what? You're actually going to, your payday is coming. That little guy that's going out there for Pee Wee League is going to be able to make the pros after this one. All right, but let's get straight to the real deal. Odell Beckham Jr., 2014. The Cowboys think they have him covered, but oh boy, did they get a lesson.

Here's the running back. Play action. And Manning's going to heave. One is, oh, there's a flag. Beckham, one-handed catch. How in the world? Oh, my goodness. And Brandon Carr was back there.

I mean, he is insane. How do you make that catch? Oh, my goodness. This is sick. Put this to music. I don't think he stepped out either. That may be the greatest catch I've ever seen. He's got number 39.

Penalty declined. He's off to the plate. Touchdown. You have to be kidding me. That is impossible. That is absolutely impossible what he just did. That may be the greatest catch I've ever seen in my life. It's in the conversation.

Wow. After being fouled. I mean, he was clearly fouled on the play. And that's clean. That's not. That's ridiculous. He does it basically with his thumb and his forefinger. That is ridiculous.

Tom Coughlin said that young man has given all of us a lift. That is just unbelievable. Okay, insane, impossible, sick, catch of all time. And you are kidding me. Yes, I mean, those are the reactions. And this is coming from an NFL wide receiver in Chris Collinsworth who says, that may be the greatest catch

I've ever seen and and then you know Al Michaels of course has to tamp things down well it's in the conversation well

I'm not hey he could have been British with that understatement exactly well it's in the conversation okay that's play of the season

yeah right NFL season without a doubt 14-15 right now if there is a catch that beats that I hope we're around to see it yeah I do That's play of the season, right? NFL season, 14-15. Now, if there is a catch that beats that, I hope we're around to see it. Yeah, I do. And I have to say that I think Chris Collinsworth was right.

I mean, when you look at just one single catch, one single play, the fact that it went for a touchdown, the fact that he was fouled on the play, that there was clearly a pass interference that happened. The fact that he didn't step out of bounds and that he caught it with one hand like that. You put it all together. How can you say it's not the greatest catch in NFL history? I don't think you can.

I mean, we'll get into the controversy as to why some people think it may not be the greatest catch. But just as a catch alone, it is indeed, in my estimation, the greatest catch with one caveat. And that is it was made by a New York Giants receiver as opposed to a Philadelphia Eagles receiver. And yes, I am a homer. I said it. And I'm sorry. I got respect for Odell and the Giants, but that doesn't stop me from hating them. Okay? All right.

Let it go. I'm going to let it go. I'm going to let it go. I'm coming down. It's okay. There's a bottle here. There's a bottle here. Okay.

Somebody hand me my bottle. Okay. You good? I'm good. Sure? Yeah, I keep some scotch under the desk for just such an occasion. I'm good. Okay.

Too much information. Chris Collinsworth called it impossible. We have a problem with that. But to help us break down the science, behind this incredible feat and joining us via Skype, we have physicist Eric Goff, professor of physics at Lynchburg College in Virginia, author, yes, author of Gold Medal Physics, The Science of Sport, and the man who is going to put possible in impossible welcome to the show eric how are you sir i'm doing great glad to be with

you gary yeah you're welcome yeah talk to us about how on earth this young man does that catch well we certainly know it was possible. We've all seen it. Yeah. And if you were a Giants hater, you can take solace in the fact they did lose that game to the Cowboys. Here's the only problem with being a Giants hater when you're a Philadelphia Eagles fan. The only team you hate more than the Giants are the Cowboys. I'm a touche on that one. So, you know.

For some reason, I'm enjoying this. Yeah, this was like a nightmare within a nightmare for me, you know. But go ahead. Okay, well, so the catch was certainly amazing. And I have to probably agree with Collinsworth that it's probably the best catch that I've ever seen. I mean, you know, another time Eli Manning tossed the ball up and great things happened. Like when David Tyree made the catch in the Superbowl, at least he got a little helmet help on that one. Yes, he did. By the way, I was on the sideline when that catch

happened and that, and I was rooting for the Giants. I'm not a total monster, Eric. I was on the sidelines for that game and I was rooting for the Giants because the Patriots had formally beat the Eagles in a Superbowl and I just didn't want to see them have a perfect season. So, you know, but yeah. Well, as a Dolphins fan, I was happy to see that one too. Right on. Okay. So, Beckham did this all on his own. He was interfered with. Brandon Carr got a couple of flags thrown on the play. And the laws of physics constrain all of us. Every time we jump, there's only a certain height we can go. Every time we run, there's only a certain speed we can get our body to move.

The laws of physics definitely constrain what we can do. But what Beckham did was show us the absolute limits of what we're constraining by. The pure athleticism of what he did was extraordinary. If you're watching the replay, you'll notice he's looking back toward the ball coming at him. And right around the eight and a half yard line, his right foot comes very, very close to going out of bounds. I mean, he's got a lot of awareness of his surroundings. He's run the sidelines probably too many times to count in his life, so he knows where the boundary is, and he just keeps himself in bounds.

The ball that Manning threw probably went around 55 yards horizontally. I think they were on their own 48-yard line just left of the right hash, I think they were on their own 48-yard line just left of the right hash. And Manning lets go of the ball at around 56, 57 miles an hour. Wow. Okay. That's a fairly typical speed for a long pass like that. And immediately the air starts slowing the ball down.

It's got about 30% of the ball's weight on air drag. Okay. ball down. It's got about 30% of the ball's weight on air drag. And by the time it hit to Beckham's hand, it was going about 46 miles an hour. So here's what Beckham did with just three fingers of his hand. He took a ball going 46 miles an hour and he got it to rest in about two-tenths of a second. Wow. Wow. That's pretty impressive, I would say. And he's doing this with just three fingertips. So has he broken any Newtonian rules or laws here, or is he just playing with science, as we say? He and no one else is going to be able to break any law of physics. Right. Not even he is that good. So I don't know if you're able to break any law of physics. Not even he is that good. So I don't know if you're able to tell me, what is the force necessary to grip a football at rest? And then what would be kind of like the

delta change in that force when you grip it at 46 miles an hour. I'm sure that would make a difference from a physics standpoint, right? So keep in mind a football's weight is only a little less than a pound. Right. So just gripping it in the hand does not require too much more force than that. Okay. Now what Beckham was able to do to take a ball going 46 miles an hour to nothing in just two-tenths of a second, to take a ball going 46 miles an hour to nothing in just two-tenths of a second, he had to exert with his three fingertips about 10 pounds of force on that ball on average over those two-tenths of a second. So about 10 times the weight of the ball he had to exert with just three little fingertips. About 10 times the weight of the ball.

So like he was Ant-Man for a second there. You know, 10 times the weight of the ball with three fingers. You don't want to play thumb wrestle with this guy is basically what you're saying. Just for two-tenths of a second. That's right. Wow. How much importance would you place on the fact that Beckham has 10-inch hands? So that's the span from little fingertip to tip of your thumb, which is quite a large hand, by the way.

tip to tip of your thumb, which is quite a large hand, by the way. Well, if he had a nine inch hands, we're probably not talking about that catch right now. Really? Wow. Is it that much of a determining factor that the size of, I guess it would be because at that point you're kind of catching the ball in the catcher's mitt. You know what I mean? That's that, you know, with your hands being that big, they act as a net, right? Well, he wasn't able to use too much of his palm. It was just the fingertips. So if his fingers are a little shorter, then the fingertips are probably down a little too much on the ball and he doesn't get quite the grip that he needs. Right. Sorry, carry on, Eric, please. I've been told that when he's practicing, he will catch punts one-handed. So let's not pretend that Beckham's first time making a one-handed grab was on that play.

No, for sure. He's practiced making one-handed grabs for years and years. So there was a lot of effort and and work and and and hard work that went into that play uh leading up to that play when when you look at this catch and and as we all have over and over again he is falling back into the end zone that ball is traveling at something 50 plus miles an hour as you said maybe 46 when it hits him how many calculations has his brain made through his eyes through his fingertips to make that play happen well it clearly we're talking about thousands and thousands of very tiny calculations but the fact that manning was able to throw a nice spiral kept the ball on a

fairly uh even trajectory so that you know he doesn't't have to concentrate too hard on which way the ball's going. It looked like it was actually headed out of bounds. So when you see him catch the ball, when he brings it to rest, he's pulling it back in bounds. When he's backwards, he's very lucky that he's got a foot down on the ground because it kept him from over-rotating back into the end zone. Right. Because if he had over-rotated, then he would have come down on the ground. Well, then again, he pulled the ball back to his torso at that point. So does having a foot on the ground give you some kind of stabilizing force that allows you to then pull the ball in. What is the purpose or what is the significance of having a foot on the ground? Well, it really gave him a chance to get a torque applied because had he not had his foot on the ground, if he'd kept rotating toward the end zone,

he would not have been able to have his hand high enough to get the ball. So it kept him from rotating back too far so that he could just get his hand up on it. Eric, do you think it's going to be important for wide receivers to attend any of your lectures on physics to get a better part of their game going? Or is this just something that's instinctively there? Well, as I said before, I mean mean he's been practicing one-handed catches and i have no idea what his physics knowledge is but if you simply practice something over and over and over again uh when the the game's on and the the moment's there uh you're not doing it for the first time so uh even though that catch was probably the the first time he did anything

quite that athletic uh he knew what it was like to catch a ball one-handed, and that skill is what helped him make that catch. Let's talk about just why receiver that position in general from a scientific standpoint. Hall of Famer Chuck McNerrick said, I didn't need physics when I played, but maybe some of these young guys do. Now, he kind of disparaged physics a little in that statement. He's throwing a little shade at physics, which I don't really appreciate as a fan of science. What he's done there is show you the watershed between old school and new school. The guys around now are so used to science being part of their programming, their regime, their training, their development. The older guys that just did

out and went out there did their thing. So science is probably new to the, and he just did it naturally without understanding what was behind it. So let me ask you this, Eric, do you think that a player knowing physics, understanding the laws of physics, understanding the dynamics of motion, do you think that that actually can help their game? Or is it kind of like the difference between flying in a plane and piloting one? Like every pilot you talk to knows the physics behind flight. That's all there is to it. But you don't have to know the physics behind flight. That's all there is to it. But you don't have to know the physics behind flight to take a flight. So do you think that it's actually beneficial for a player to know science and to know physics? Well, I'd like to think that knowledge is power and anything you can do to better understand your work environment. And if that work environment's on the gridiron, then I think it can help. To quantify how much help I think is difficult, I mean, people have been playing sports a long time without going to a physics class.

So I'm not saying it's necessary, but I will make another pitch for science. Science is helping protect these players from concussions with better helmets, better padding. Science is helping protect these players from concussions with better helmets, better padding. The sports medicine is getting them recovered from injury a lot faster, extending their careers and the money that they can make. And the fact that Odell Beckham was wearing, I believe it was a Nike Vapor Jet 3 model glove that's got an extra kind of a tacky substance on it, that helps make the catch. I'm not sure if he makes that catch barehanded. It's something that the technology is helping the players perform, and it's great. And whether or not they understand the technology, I don't think is that important, but it definitely helps all of us who watch these things understand better how they're doing it. Wow.

Hey, man, that's great. And thank you for talking about the glove because we actually have a segment coming up where we're going to actually discuss the controversy surrounding the fact that Odell Beckham used gloves. And we have one of the engineers, Joe Bevier from Nike Football Innovation, who is going to talk to us about that very glove you just mentioned. So thank you for that, sir. Anytime you want to program our show, we'll have you back and just let you program the show. Yeah. Eric, thank you so much. So clearly this is the greatest catch of all time.

I agree. I mean, it's very, very, very hard to say it isn't. And here to confirm why it's the greatest catch of all time is comedian extraordinaire Jamie Madden here in New York City. What's up, Jamie? Hey. What up, baby? How you doing, man? So, yeah, man.

I'm good. I know you have some thoughts on how great this catch really is. So what do you got, buddy? All right. This is how good, I mean, that catch is amazing, all right? There's been amazing catches. You know, you watch footage of the 70s. Fred Belitnikoff would make great catches like that,

like a ballerina, but he had to stick them all over. Okay, that doesn't count, all right? That's nonsense. That's outlawed now. That's cheating. I could go do that, okay? All right, so I'm comparing this to other all-time great catches in life.

This is how good Odell is, that he could do, like, better than everyone else in catches. Like this. Here's a great catch in life. Jay-Z, God bless him, great rapper. No business being with Beyonce. Okay? She's, like, on a scale of 1 to 10, she's $20 billion. All right?

Add more zeros. Keep the zeros coming. She's gorgeous. He's a decade older than her. All right? He's not the sexiest man alive. He's not The. All right? Add more zeros. Keep the zeros coming. She's gorgeous. He's a decade older than her. All right? He's not the sexiest man alive. He's not the rock. Okay?

He's the sling rock. 99 Problems rock. But he ain't the rock. He has no business doing it. It's a great catch. That's a great catch. Yeah. Guess what Odell would do?

He'd do it better. He'd marry Beyonce, her sister, all of Destiny's Child. He'd marry all of Columbia sister, all of Destiny's Child. He'd marry all of Columbia Records. All of them. Do you Columbia Records take him as your husband? Yes. It'd take a while for him to answer, but that would happen. All right?

You got any more great catches? Yeah, here's another one. I'm going to go another wedding scenario. Years ago, I'm at one. This girl Gina climbed over three bridesmaids to get the bouquet. This girl didn't even go to her high school prom. All right, no one loved her. A year later, after catching the bouquet,

married a neurosurgeon. Yeah, she's like the Rudy of weddings. All right, that's pretty impressive. Guess what? If Odell was there, he would have scaled over the whole wedding party. Groomsmen, bridesmaids, the girl on the flowers,

the organist, all of them would have caught the bouquet with one hand. The other hand, the garter, would have caught the garter and the bouquet. And then married himself. Yes. Progressive. Progressive. Married himself.

21st century. Give me one more. Bring it home with one more, man. You're on the roll. All right. Let's do. How about Trump? Trump, this is an amazing catch, whether you like it or

not. OK. Nine years ago, he was calling Rosie O'Donnell a pig on talk shows. Seven years ago, he was taking a stone cold stunner in WrestleMania. Three years ago, firing people on a reality show. OK. Now he's the president. He's the leader of the free world. All right? Odell would do it better. Uh-oh. Okay? Odell would, on election night, when he's announcing that he won, he would be giving a stunner to Rosie O'Donnell while firing Hillary. That's how he'd do it.

And then he'd go, guess what, baby? We're going to make America Odell again. Yeah. That's how he does it, baby. All right. All right, James. James, James, James. King baby. All right. All right, James. James, James, James. King James. Go on.

Thank you, fellas. Well, clearly, we got a good catch when we got you, brother man. Sure. Nice work there. Nice work. Thanks, boys. Take it easy. We are going to take a short break, but as is the way with playing with science, we will

leave you with something for your gray matter. Okay, question time, people. We will have the answers after the break, by the way. Who is said to be Odell Beckham's childhood sporting hero? Who was Odell Beckham's childhood sporting hero? And then the next question, might be easy, this one. Who is Beckham's glove supplier? Interesting.

Test of your memory that one. Right, we'll have the answer after the break. See you soon. Welcome back. I'm Gary O'Reilly. And I'm Chuck Nice. And this is Playing With Science. And today we are talking about football and the science behind Odell Beckham Jr.'s incredible one-handed catch

that he has replicated over and over again. Right, before we get to our next guest, who is rather special, answers to our little questions, teasing you before the break. Who is said to be Odell Beckham's childhood sporting hero? Chuck Nice. Thank you. Odell, it's okay, baby. I understand. He's only human. Yeah. Really? Well, apart from Chuck Nice, it was David Beckham. He of soccer, not football.

But I can see where he's going with that. And who is Odell Beckham Jr.'s glove supplier? I'm going to go with, let me think. Maybe they, let me just, if I think hard enough, it'll come to me. I'm just going to do it and say Nike. What a great answer. And here from Nike's innovation design team is Joe Beviere, man behind Odo Beckham's gloves. Is that right, Joe?

You are the man behind the gloves? I wouldn't want to take exclusive credit for that. There's a huge team of very talented people and scientists and researchers who are constantly working to make these products better so that athletes can do better than their previous best. Wow. With an answer like that, you could actually play quarterback in the NFL, Joe. That was excellent, my friend. Don't upset our guests. No, I'm saying that's a great answer. He's just like, you know, because, you know, that's your job as a quarterback. You know, it's like they compliment you and you go, yeah, well, you know, the offensive line,

they did their job. You know, I can't say that I did it alone. And of course, you know, my guys went up top and they went for the ball and they fought for it. And, you know, that really helps out. That helps me look good. You know, listen, this is a team effort all the time. And even the coach, you know, that was a great play to call it that particular time. So I have to say, like, you know, you know, I'm glad I'm glad to stand here and say how great the play was. But, you know, I got to give credit to all my guys. And you just did that, Joe. OK, let's let's go back to 2014. This rookie that got drafted, that you signed, Nike signed just before the draft, has set the glove business on fire. Did you ever think that this guy could do that? Or did you realize the potential he already had? I'm not actually surprised. When you deal with world-class athletes all the time, the amount of skill and training these guys have, it's just off the hook.

It's incredible. And, you know, it's their job. They're working every day at getting better at it. Much like at Nike, we're working every day to make better products to serve athletes. We've talked about the science and the talks and the forces and spirals and everything revolving around, quite literally, pun intended, that pass, that catch. But on those gloves is a certain amount of tech. Can you talk us through the tech? Because there are no standardized gloves.

Am I right in NFL? No, there are some performance standards. And what are those? And what do you mean by performance standards when you talk about the gloves and the NFL regulations? Okay. The regulations are different at different levels of play, high school, college, and NFL. And basically, they don't want the gloves to get, in their words, too sticky. They don't want to change the game with the equipment.

equipment. That said, there are lots of things that can be done within the rules to make the product actually work better. I mean, by simply making it fit better and articulate better to the complex motion of the hand, you can help them to catch better. Absolutely. Yeah, that's so kind of like, and I'm going to sound like a real dweeb and geek here, but it's it's kind of like the advancements that were made in surgical gloves years ago. You know, it's like surgical gloves used to be somewhat clumsy. And as the technology got better, it allowed doctors to articulate their hands and fingers movements with more precision, thereby making surgery easier. So it's that it's that kind of deal, right? with more precision, thereby making surgery easier. So it's that kind of deal, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. You're allowing the hand to do naturally what it does best. And in some cases, you can do things that allow it to do things a little better than it would naturally do. Nice. But again, these athletes, they train. They train for hand strength. They train for visual acuity. So they learn to track a ball through the air and judge its position faster than the average person can.

So Joe, when you are starting with just a basic glove with no tech on it at all, and you look at some parameters in terms of that design and that development how much of the gloves coefficient of friction in terms of engineering do you build in or don't build in uh that is entirely built in that that is one of the primary considerations in in helping the athlete to catch the ball okay can you tell us without giving away any of the top secrets? No, just give them away, Joe. Just give us all the Nike proprietary secrets right now. Just go ahead and let them out, babe.

That's three questions later. Yeah. We've got to set him up for this. All right. So as Chuck was saying, spill the beans. All the proprietary stuff. No, I'm joking. But could you, what Gary just said, could you break down the components of the glove and what each component, why it's there,

like the neoprene and whatever these, the silicone, all that kind of stuff. Can you break down those components and tell us why they're there? Sure. Sure. Okay. So let's start with the palm material because we were talking about that. Yeah. That's a specifically formulated silicone. It's not an off-the-shelf one that you'd find every day. Or the kind that you would find in Hollywood boobs. Right. Chuck.

Sorry. Sorry about that. So you should be. Sorry I had to say that. Let's keep it professional guys okay you just got taken to school look at that i'm being reprimanded good nike gave me a slap on the wrist i love it no nike relief parcel for you sir sorry about that man go ahead so the silicone is a uh is a special silicone that you guys developed. Go for it.

Right. Right. And it combines a certain coefficient of friction and some other magic that we won't go into in great detail. But it adds to durability and so forth and helps the athletes catch better. Some of the other materials like the neoprenes, the foams and things, some positions want padding in their gloves in various places. Maybe they're blocking and hitting the heel of their hand on other people's, you know, helmets and things and they get bruises. Or the back of the hand, especially, you know, getting tackled and so forth you know you get a pile of people the hand back of the hand is very sensitive where you have uh skin and bones right next to each other and when

something hard gets pressed against the skin it really hurts you get bad bruises you can even get breaks so you know the the foam is very strategically located for padding where they need it and not where they don't. It's also segmented in ways that help the glove, although it's protective, remain very flexible. Again, that comes back to the range of motion of the hand. A poorly built glove, if you put your hand in it and try and spread out your fingers and much like a receiver does, make a big target for the ball, like they're taught to do, they taught to to frame the ball right yeah like this and see it right and it's like well if in a glove you can only get your

your hand a certain size um when you go to to catch it you've got a smaller target versus if that glove can expand all the way to the limits of the range of your hand and doesn't limit it, you've got a better chance of catching the ball. So do you articulate the fingers where the knuckles are, or are they just plain, solid pieces of – oh, you're smiling at me. That may be a secret. He's like, yeah, we're not – I can't give that up. It depends a little. No, it depends a little on the design. Yes, there are features built into them to help them articulate more, actually.

And some of them are very visible. Some of them are not so visible because it has more to do with the way that the material is cut and so forth. Okay. All right. I'm going to use the example of the natural world and the gecko climbing up the vertical wall or hanging off the ceiling and scaring everybody to pieces. They have a certain sort of way. Yeah, that's it. Yes. Selling us insurance with London voices. So they've got this system of hairs and then they sort of diversify those hairs out.

It's like a micro suction. Do you feel that that may be for the future, the way to go? Or have you explored that and thought does not work? There are a lot of different mechanisms to increase grip. And that's one that's very popular in the natural world. Right now, those types of materials are very developmental and extremely expensive, prohibitively so. And one of the facts is when you look at the gecko specifically, those hairs regenerate themselves. They're very small, so they wear out and so forth very quickly. wear out and so forth very quickly. Your gloves, making gloves that grow, that would be a real trick, I think, to regenerate themselves. So what would happen essentially is that grip would wear off very quick, most likely. Without then giving away every single secret that Nike owned,

where do you see the evolution of gloves going? You go any further than you've gone. I mean, without changing the game. I mean, once you start getting into areas where you're like, when you look at the tentacle of an octopus and you put some kind of suction on it or, you know, things like that. Aren't you at that point just changing the game? And so how far can you go without changing the position? Well, I think there's always opportunities. The game evolves

slowly, but it does. If you look at the history of the ball, it's changed in shape and features and so forth over years. And I think the biggest change in the last few years, maybe decade or so, is the degree of training that athletes are doing and how speed and strength have increased and in some ways that's forced us to change the way we make the gloves to actually make them more durable for this new class of athlete that's better faster jumps higher and farther wow um has beckham himself joined the design team and given his input as to what he would like, or is he not allowed in just in case he goes completely nuts? Or any wide receiver. I mean, you know, there's so many great receivers out there now. It's kind of a

receiver's game, you know, quarterback to receiver. That's the hookup for the game right now. Do you guys, do you guys consult with, you know, like a Larry Fitzgerald or AJ Green or Beckham Jr.? Absolutely. That's one of our primary inputs that guides what we do. That's kind of the litmus test, if you will, that determines we're on the right track is, does it meet an athlete need and does it help them to perform better? And we talk with all of our stable of athletes at all levels. I've done receivers glove testings with young kids, with high school age kids, college players, and with pros. I mean, we talk to all of them and get input on the product.

How does it fit? How does it feel? Try this glove and this glove. Which catches better? And what do you think? And it's like, you know, we want to hear from them what they like and don't like and make that product that is so much better. And we tend to, what we do is we test that in the lab. And then we go validate it on athletes.

So it's kind of proven and tested. So, Joe, which group gave you the best feedback, the most useful feedback, high school, college, or pro? They all do. They all have slightly different needs. It's interesting. They're very engaged. They're very into the product um it's amazing how in tuned with it they are you know we have situations where you change something by a couple hundreds of an

inch and players can tell the difference there that's how in tune they are with yeah they're the tools of the trade you know and and they they are so intimate with them. And it's just amazing some of the feedback you hear at different levels. The high school kids, a lot of them, they throw balls as fast and as far as college and pro quarterbacks do. I mean, I was talking about the level of skill and training these days. It's really so elevated. It's incredible. Wow, that's cool. Let me just tell you a quote by Jerry Rice, and he's talking about your gloves, specifically the gloves that Odell Beckham Jr. was wearing at the time that he

made that catch. And Jerry Rice said the following, those gloves that they're using today, there's no way Odell Beckham would have made that catch without those gloves. Back in my day, back in my day, we used to use those scuba diving gloves. Gloves just give you a different feel for the ball. I have 1,549 receptions and 22,895 yards. If I had the gloves they have today, I think everything would have been doubled. And that is my most humble opinion because I'm a very, very humble guy. Signed, Jerry Rice. So, Joe, simple question. Simple question.

Was Jerry right? Was he right? Boy, you really got me cornered now. Yes and no. Oh, great. I do believe that Jerry wore some of these very same types of gloves with the very same material in the last few years of his career. So I think the gloves possibly helped him more than he thinks, too. On the other hand, I've got to give it to these athletes,

again, the way they train, you know, it's crazy, their skills. I mean, I'm not going to take anything away from Odell. I mean, he's one of the best receivers in the game today. And as you said, there's a lot of them yes that doesn't take anything away from any of them yeah just incredible skills so maybe what you can do joe is create a glove that will help jerry rice stop hating i think i could do that we could build a glove with a lot of love oh yeah that's, yeah, that's it. Absolutely. A love glove, baby. We need a love glove. You know, there is love in glove.

It's G-Love. Oh, right on. See? Ooh. Jerry Lovewell. And dial up the special sauce. That's all I'm saying. All right, Joe.

Absolute pleasure. And thank you, sir, for unlocking a little bit of the tech magic that goes on on Nike's gloves. Pleasure. Hopefully, we'll have you back soon. Thank you to Joe Devier on Nike's development and design team. We are going to take another break, which means simply two things. Two more questions. Right. Question one.

How many NFL Pro Bowls has Odell Beckham Jr. already been to? Oh, yeah. So there's your first question. And which team did Odell Beckham Jr. make that, yes, that catch against in November 2014? The answers to those unbelievably big teasing questions'll be with you when we come back. Welcome back. I'm Gary O'Reilly. And I'm Chuck Nice.

And this is Playing With Science. Okay, we left you before the break with some brain teasers, or not, it depends on your point of view. All right, which, well, how many Pro Bowls has Odell Beckham Jr. already been to? Answer, simply two. Yeah, the boys made a statement, didn't they? He really has.

One and two, and probably three as well. And which team, Chuck, cover your ears, which team did Beckham make that play of the season against in 2014? Of course, it was the Cowboys. I'm sorry. One of Chuck's least favorite teams. Is there something in my throat?

Yeah, okay. I'm so sorry. Take a gulp of water. However, one of our favorites is wide receiver coach for Arizona State University, Coach Norvell. He is the author of The Complete Wide Receiver. A man who has been in the game for 25 years? Yeah. Well, this guy is going to know an awful lot about wide receivers.

So let's start with Coach. Coach Norvell, welcome to Playing With Science. Hey, Coach. Hey, guys. How are we doing this morning? We are good. Thank you for your company after Beckham makes that catch against the Cowboys does he begin to change the game has he now set himself up to be a game changer or is he just a wide receiver no I definitely think he's had an impact, especially on how young people view football. And I think it really has to do with media attention and social media attention.

And as many times as kids can see these types of plays, I think what we're seeing is emulation, which has always been something that's been in sports and athletics. We've always tried to emulate our stars. Yes. But when we see we have the opportunity to pick up a phone or pull up on a computer, a highlight of a one handed grab, young people try to repeat that action and practice that action. And I think that's what we're seeing is is a trickle down effect. And it has made a big effect on the game. When you're recruiting players, do you look for the kind of skill set that Beckham has brought to the game? Or is there another set of boxes that are ticked for particularly wide receivers?

And what is now? Because I've seen, you know, I've been a football fan for pretty much my entire life, you know, watching a game, sitting on my dad's knee. And I can tell you that wide receivers have changed in the way that they look, in their size. You know, in addition to that skill set that Gary just brought up, what is the prototypical wide receiver that you're kind of looking at now? Well, that's the beautiful thing about the position, I think, which makes it so fascinating is that there's all different types of receivers. Just in the last couple of years, I had Sterling Shepard, who's probably, I think Sterling is 5'10", 5'11".

And then I also had Doriel Green Beckham, who plays for Philadelphia, who's 6'6", 230 pounds. So there's a wide range of body types. There's a wide range of physical attributes that make wide receivers special and great. But you look for players that can adjust. You look for body control. You look for great agility. You have to have fabulous hand-eye coordination and ball skills. I was blessed to coach Marvin Harrison when I was with the Indianapolis Colts.

And he was a tremendous point guard in high school out of Philadelphia and then went to Syracuse, of course. But he had tremendous ball skills and great speed and athletic ability and agility. Wide receivers have to be able to adjust, and that is a quality that you look for as well in athletes. So to answer your question in a condensed response, there's a variety of skills. Ball skills are very important. Agility is extremely important and then being able to put that all together in into a very fast game where you have to where you have speed and athletic the best athletes in the world coming at you that's a that's a very hard thing to really put a finger on when you're evaluating talent.

Hey, let me follow up on that, if you don't mind, because you just brought up something. You brought up speed. So you look at somebody like Deshaun Jackson, who is playing at Washington. This guy's a tremendous receiver, and he's rather small. But then you look at somebody like Megatron, who tops six whatever. I think he's like 6'4", 6'5", right? But he also has that same speed. So which guy are you looking at? Okay, you're doing some recruiting now. We're going to make you the GM.

You're looking at two guys. One of them, Deshaun Jackson, clearly a phenomenal talent. The other guy, a Megatron, different physiology. Which guy do you think is better for you to work with that you want to look at? Well, the most unusual player is Megatron. If you just go back over the years, finding an athlete with that size, that ability to run rarely, rarely comes along maybe once in a generation so so if you had your if you could carve them out of stone you would take

Megatron okay but but speed speed is a very very important attribute one that you can't coach that you have to recruit that you have to draft draft in the NFL. So that is also an important quality. But if you could have size and speed, that would be the ultimate. Once you get your wide receiver, and you know what, as the owner of our make-believe franchise, I've just allowed you to buy both those guys, so good for you, coach. What do you do working with them? So they've got the speed, you don't need to coach that

but how do you use and particularly science to bring their game to a level it hasn't been to yet well there's there's certain qualities that we work on one of the things uh we really break it down into three simple things the first job that a wide receiver has is to get open. So we spend a large amount of our time. Anybody can run a 12-yard curl route on air, but once you get to major college football, once you get to the NFL, there's defenders that stand over you and try to impede your progress. So we spend a lot of time on working. And separation. Absolutely. Hand releases, keeping people from putting their hands on you in all types of different ways. So that's part of our pre-practice ritual. The next thing that a receiver has to do is catch the ball. And so ball skills are extremely important. And I think that's where you've seen a huge change because of the fabulous,

you know, one hand catch by an Odell Beckham. You know, those are things that kids didn't practice all the time. I think one of the things now is that kids will practice hundreds of catches like that a day. You know, we will not leave the practice field without catching at least 100 balls at the end of practice. We'll catch low, we'll catch high, we'll catch from the right, we'll catch from the left, we'll catch over the shoulder, thumbs together, pinkies together. Basically, we'll try to manufacture any type of unusual situation that can happen in a game and work it every single day. We'll practice one-hand catches.

We'll practice outside, inside, over the top. But we try to recreate those magical things that happen in the game and work on them every day in practice. So now with that in mind, because you just said it, that you practice. Now you're practicing. And it's funny because you look on YouTube and you see all these kids now. All these little kids now, that's what they practice. But when you talk about the fundamentals of catching, if I remember correctly, if I remember correctly from what I was taught, all right,

two things you want to do is look the ball in. So you catch with your eyes, all right? You want to look the ball in. You're looking at the point of the ball. We even used to do drills where they painted the front of the ball. You know what I mean? Seriously. And you had to call out the color of the ball.

Yep. All right. And the other thing you want to do is you catch with your fingers. And the other fundamental is two hands because it's easier to catch with two hands than it is to catch with one. Absolutely. So now that these kids are practicing one-handed catches, how do you make that part of the fundamentals of the game?

Or do they have to have the fundamentals down first? What do you do with that as a coach? Because I see kids coming in and going, I'm going to Beckham this. I'm going to Beckham this. Look at me, coach. Look at me Beckham this, coach. You're absolutely right. And to break the fundamental down, we call it framing the football.

So I would like, if the ball is thrown above my chest, I would like two hands together, my thumbs together, and I want to frame the ball, which means I want to get my head and eyes behind the flight of the football. Wherever the ball is, I'd like to get in that position. If the ball's below my chest, I'd like my pinkies together. And absolutely, you would like to use both hands because the probability of you catching the ball rises when you use two hands. Now, if the doctorate degree is the Odell Beckham one-hand catch, that's what you would like to progress to after you play for years.

But if I'm teaching a young a young player how to first catch the football, it's absolutely with two hands on the ball. It's absolutely getting my body behind the football. And I would like to frame the football. frame the football. I was very fortunate to work with the Oakland Raiders and Fred Belitnikoff was one of the greats that I was able to work with. And Fred called it backstopping the football. And what backstopping means is my hands actually get behind the ball. And even if I don't catch the football clean, I can stop the flight of the football and catch it on a bobble even. And so those are things we talk to our players about. Backstopping the football, I thought,

was a brilliant way to explain it from a guy that's Hall of Fame of getting both hands behind the ball, stopping the flight of the football so that it will give you the opportunity to even catch it on a hop if you don't catch it clean so um absolutely we do not coach using one hand on the football that's not something we coach but we do coach that as an alternative there are times when a defender grabs an arm and you can only go after the football with one hand. And if you

practice it and give with it, you can certainly learn to catch the ball one handed. Do you find players just naturally intuitive? Someone like Beckham just seems to have the attitude that I'm going to do it like this coach. It's not a problem. And how do you work as a coach with a player with that kind of attitude? Well, the one thing I do see is he practices it. He practices it in the pregame. And, you know, I think that's something that allows him to be able to do it in the game. I know he catches like 300 balls on a jugs every practice every single day. And a number of those balls I'm sure he catches one-handed.

I've seen him do it in warm-ups. So that's something that's not foreign to him because he works on it every single day and he's learned to master those catches. And that's something that has to be developed. Many athletes don't have big enough hands to be able to throw the football with one hand. And I know Randy Moss used to catch the ball in the football with one hand. And, you know, I know Randy Moss

used to catch the ball in pregame with one hand all the time because he was such a big athlete. He had huge hands and was able to do that. Many things that we felt were impossible in the past are becoming possible because these great athletes are working on it. That's one of the things when I went from college football to the National Football League, I coached six years in the NFL, the speed of the game is just incredible because you have the world's greatest athletes on both sides of the ball, and they practice these skills over and over and over,

eight to ten hours a day. over and over eight to 10 hours a day. So, so many things that, that you would think are, are, are impossible to do. They're making them possible. Just, just through the hard work and the repetition of practice, you know, so, so thinking of the practice, you know, and the hard work, you know, that's a mental state. How about mental toughness? You know, a part of a wide receivers game, you know, is there's a state. How about mental toughness? You know, a part of a wide receivers game, you know, is there's a great deal of mental toughness that you have to have in order to concentrate and make these spectacular catches. Can you coach that? Can you coach the kind of concentration and mental toughness? And can you please give Beckham Green of the Philadelphia Eagles,

since you know him, give him a call and tell him to increase his concentration. Because the brother keeps looking up field. He keeps looking up field before he has the ball in his hands. Okay? And can you please tell him to stop doing that? I'm just asking you, Coach, if you could call him and just say please. But no. All right, all right.

All right, Coach. Just say you will. Just say you will. Don. All right, Coach. Just say you will. Just say you will. Don't pick up the phone. Just say you will. Just absolutely will. But talk about the mental toughness involved and the concentration necessary to play this position. Well, on that note, it is a very difficult thing to evaluate because one of the – people ask all the time,

what's the difference between college ball and pro ball the the biggest thing in in college football there's over 120 teams and the athletes are spread out all over the country right when you get to professional football there's 32 teams and the very best athletes in the world are playing defensive back. And so the speed and athletic ability that they have to react is the very best in the world. And so for a receiver to make the jump from college competition to professional competition and the speed of the game is ramped up so much and the margin for error is so small, many players don't adjust to the next level.

And that's very difficult to evaluate when you evaluate in the draft, can this player focus and concentrate with the speed of the game at the NFL level? And then you bring in the mental toughness aspect. You know, there aren't many Ray Lewis's running across the field, and I know there aren't in the NFL anymore, but in college football, it changes the game. You know, we have an old saying as wide receivers, if you want to win, you got to catch the ball in between the hashes yes and and that's and that takes a different kind of mental mental toughness you know michael michael irvin used to have to build up a whole lot of courage when he used to run slant routes you hear him say it all the time he goes

he'd have to talk himself into it i don't want to go back to the ghetto i'm going to cross but that's the mindset. These men are doing this for a living. And I tell our college players all the time, you have no idea the intensity of an NFL Saturday or Sunday. The intensity, the speed of the game, the physicality is 10 times what it is in a college game. And so the focus, the mental toughness it takes to cross the middle and catch the ball when you know you're going to get hit, there's a whole different level when you get to the National Football League. And so I think that's why you see some players struggling

to be consistent at that level. And then the guys that do it so well for a long time the steve's miss of the world the the guys that are just so mentally tough and and physical uh and and courageous going across the middle uh those guys separate themselves from the rest of the pack wow all right coach just one thought what is the future going to look like for wide receivers? Very, very good question. You know, I don't know if we felt like we would ever see guys, you know, 6'6", 235 pound wide receivers, but athletes are training so much, their speed and athletic ability are improving at a high rate. I think we're seeing an evolution in the passing game because we have these national seven-on-seven tournaments. Kids are playing more football

games in the offseason and in the summer than they actually do in the fall in these seven-on-seven tournaments. So the level and the skill of passing is being increased every year that we play and and kids that are younger and younger age are are mastering throwing and catching the football so I just think it's going to continue to improve you know the rules are allowing it to be more difficult to play defense and and and the passing game is improving every every every year so just, I just see the game continuing to evolve. I think we're going to see bigger athletes on the perimeter, faster athletes on the perimeter and, and you know, the passing stats should just continue.

That's scary. Good man. That's scary. Good stuff. Hey, before we let you go, I just always like to know this. So give me your top five receivers in the game, not necessarily ranked from best to worst, but just the top five guys that you think like these your top five receivers in the game. Not necessarily ranked from best to worst, but just the top five guys that you think, like, these are the best receivers in the game. Are you talking about right now? Yeah, right now.

Not in history. That's too much. That's too much to go with history. But just the guys that are out there on Sundays right now. I mean, I love Julio Jones. Oh, yes. And, of course, Odell has played fabulously in the last couple years. Those would be the top three that I would pick right there.

Right on. Right on. Coach Novell, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you. All the best to you and your teams. Thanks so much. It's been a privilege to have you on board playing with science. We look forward to your company in the future. You guys, it's been an honor. Honor's been ours And been a privilege to have you on board playing with science. We look forward to your company

in the future. You guys, it's been an honor. Honors been ours. Well, there you have it. That's our show. Yeah. Yeah, man. It was a good one, too.

I mean... Glad I stuck around. Yeah. So this is it, people. You know what? If you like getting science in sports and sports in science, kind of like a sports science Reese's Cup,

that's what we are. This is Playing With Science. You hungry? I am hungry. I guess that's where the Reese's Cup came from. Yeah, so if you're wishing to feed Chuck, that's the way it is. I'm Gary O'Reilly. And I'm Chuck Nice. And we have been playing Science.

This is Playing With Science. I'm Gary O'Reilly. And I'm Chuck Nice. And this is the Science of the Catch, where we unravel the science and tech behind Odell Beckham Jr.'s legendary one-handed grab back there in his rookie year, but now extended, just for you, by the way, with a bonus segment where we answer some of your questions about physics and football with the help of our good and dear friend physics professor eric goth author of gold medal physics wasn't odell i mean he just denouncing himself with that rookie year catch yeah and the whole hype that's gone on with him now i mean bowed out of the season with a with a badly damaged ankle he's got a bad bad injury now, ankle, and he's out. And I have to tell you, though, the great thing about going back to this show right now is the number of circus catches since this catch.

I got to tell you, this still rates up there as far as I'm concerned. It's one of the greatest catches I've ever seen because of the way that he reaches back for the ball, lays out with complete abandon and disregard for his own body. It looks as though he's reckless. It's fearless. It was just a, this is what I do. Yes. And he made it look easy. He looks like he overextends his whole body and then comes back and then bang.

The whole thing was just so, so perfect. But I got to tell you, since then, it's almost as if guys are going out and trying to top this catch. He raised the bar. I mean, he brought freestyling. But the thing is, as we know now from so many interviews and episodes and features on him, that most of what he did was muscle memory because he was doing that over and over and over again. Yeah, you know, and I don't know if you can speak to this professor, but basically what we found out is that's what he practices. what he practices. He catches punts one-handed. He does them cross-handed, right? So they'll kick him punts and he'll catch them one-handed. So yeah, that's something he practices. Wow. I didn't know it was punts though. I thought that he was just practicing by catching balls that way. I didn't know they were kicking them punts. They kick them, they throw them,

they do all kinds of different ways to get him the ball and he'll catch them one-handed. I mean, he's got that t-shirt that just says, is what i do this is what i do yeah what i do all right let's let's get to our first question and chuck because i'm all heart you can say this guy's name well this is chris chiquiti so uh if it is italian so chris chiquiti isn't it funny i can't pronounce anybody's name but it's if it's written in Italian, I don't have a problem. This is what he says. G'day, guys. Now I'm thinking it's not Italian.

Oh, no, there's a lot. A lot of Italians in Australia? Yeah, G'day is only one thing. He's an Aussie. Okay, so he's an Aussie who happens to be Italian. Okay, so g'day, guys. You'll mispronounce my last name, Chuck. I don't think so, but give it a go. It's better to be bigger. Is it better to be bigger or smaller in relation to mass for speed? The bigger would have more muscle,

but heavier causing drag than being small. Cheers from Australia. Clearly the big linemen are not built for speed. They're built to get their big, uh, bulky masses in the way of the quarterback. So they got the, uh, you know, the, the mass is not really built for speed there. So sure. You want to have, um, good, strong muscles in your legs and stuff. Um, you don't want to have a lot of fat cause you don't want to be carrying a lot of wasted mass when you're running fast. So definitely the lean, the trimmer, thinner athletes and even the taller ones that are going to have the longer strides are going to, you know, like a Usain Bolt. I mean, you know, the taller athletes are going to be able to run with higher top speeds. See, I go back to the classic sweetness, Walter Payton.

See, I go back to the classic sweetness, Walter Payton, the little guy as the running back who was just so elusive but had change of speed, you know, those change of gears, but the change of direction. And you just think about some of the running backs today we're seeing aren't the big bulldozers. They're the little light flying machines. Yeah. So remember Barry Sanders. I mean, Barry Sanders was like a little pinball that would bounce off of, uh, tacklers and defenders. I mean, he, he could keep a really low center of mass and when they would try to tackle him, they would either come in a little bit, uh, toward the shoulder pads or, you know, right around the chest area. So they couldn't get

him down very quickly. Right. So let me ask you, is there a relationship in physics between mass and speed? Is there some kind of equation where you can figure out how much more energy you need to get that much more mass up to the same amount of speed? Yeah. We call this like allometric scaling. So you talk about smaller animals. So like a chihuahua is going to have great acceleration, but it's not going to have a very big top speed. But something like a racetrack greyhound is going to have these long legs, it's tall, it's not going to have great acceleration out of the block, but it's going to the bigger its top speed is going to be for a given body type. But when you make them really small, that's when the acceleration is there. So if you ever watch Usain Bolt in the races, the 100 meters, some of the smaller athletes might get out of the block a little quicker, but he'll have the top speed to beat them. Gotcha. Wow. Okay. That's pretty talk.

All right, Chris, hopefully that answers your question. have the top speed to beat him gotcha wow okay that's pretty talk all right chris we hope for hopefully that answers your question uh okay next one up is pelon desconocido hope i've pronounced that correctly if not please come in and uh you know that's a name he just made that up to confuse us yes confused me right is a form this is from twitter is a football affected by the Magnus effect or not, in parentheses, because of its shape? Is it designed to minimize it, Gary? Minimize, yes. That's a good question. Yes, thank you.

Is the Magnus effect minimized or not on the football? So when you think about the Magnus effect influencing, say, a baseball, so a baseball fastball is thrown with a lot of backspin, and the air gets whipped down so that you feel a slight upward force from the Magnus effect. A curveball would have a lot of topspin, so the air gets whipped back up, and then the air is going to be pushing the ball down. So you have to have the rotation axis perpendicular to the direction you're moving.

The problem with a football is when it comes to the Magnus effect, it's more of a corkscrew type spiral. So the rotation axis is in the direction you're moving. You don't get a very big Magnus effect at all from the football. You don't get a very big magnus effect at all from the football. If you could throw the ball, if you turn it 90 degrees and you throw it fat in first, then, yeah, you can get a lot of a topspin or a backspin type magnus effect on it. So now that tight spiral that causes, you know, that beautiful NFL film shot that we all have come to know and love. All right. have come to know and love. Let's say you were to put the football in a rail gun and you were just to shoot it with no spin at all.

What would you have to do to achieve the same distance? What would it take to achieve the same distance? Well, good luck with that because what the spiral does, it's much like the bullet coming out of a gun that's been, the rifle's been rifled. Anything that's got spin like that has what we call a big old angular momentum vector pointing along its nose. And if you try to turn that, that takes a torque, meaning it's hard to do. If it comes out without any spin spin it's really easy to turn so it's going to come out and any little slight displacement away from perfection it's going to turn and you're going to get a big

wobbly duck coming out of that rail gun wow okay cool technical term there wobbly duck wobbly duck yes we like a wobbly duck that's physics 101 what other effects on a football so for instance if i'm kicking for goal and i'm quite some say i'm 50 something yards away from the post, I've got to get it up. I've got to get it over and I've got to get it through. What other effects are going to possibly be in play to affect my accuracy? 50 yards away, if that's a long kick for you, you might even put a little bit of a backspin on the ball. You might kick it a little bit low and try to keep it up in the air a little bit longer with the Magnus effect going up. If you're a pretty strong kicker, I mean, the Brazilian, was it Luiz, back in the 2014 World Cup, had a nice free kick where he had a little topspin where it just came into the top bar and then dipped down into the goal. So it just depends on how strong your leg is and how far out you are.

I mean 50 yards is a pretty long kick for goal. It should be doable. So now you get that – is there a way – now I'm sure this is impossible because it would have been done by now, but since you're a physicist and you're here, I got to ask you. Is there a way to kick a football to a spiral? Yes. Sure. Get out. Yes.

They punt spirals all the time. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm talking about a field goal. I'm sorry. I've seen spiral punts all the time. I'm talking about a field goal from a place kick. Okay. So is there a way to kick a football to a spiral? And Gary, you're a former professional soccer player and Eric, you are a soccer fanatic. So I just want to know, is there a way to do that? Is there a way to do that? You'd have to kick it off center, so left or right off center, and it would have to come out with that nice spin. The problem is you're going to have a really tough time kicking that thing straight.

And when it comes out with that spiral, it will have a magnet effect on it because now you are spiraling it with the noses perpendicular to the way it's moving. So not only that, you're going to have a huge amount of air resistance on it too because you've got that big cross-sectional area hitting the air on the way out. So it's not a good way to kick for a field goal. It's just not a good way to kick. It can happen, but it's a terrible way to kick a field goal. Yeah, it would be circus tricks. I think really if I look at it now, your field goal, your point after, whatever it is, you are coming at a slight angle depending on which foot you kick with and you would kick basically in your general direction you're facing okay i would then as if i'm right footed i would approach it at almost 90 degrees or something close to that professor

kick viciously across without taking too much of the meat of the ball to achieve the spiral. To create the corkscrew. Yeah, but I can't then impart the energy to get distance. But I can make it spin. So you're going to kick a spiral that'll go eight yards. Possibly ten. Okay, I got you. All right. Okay.

No, you don't ask, you don't know. Yeah, exactly. I just wanted to know. That's pretty cool. I think on that note, we'll end it. Yeah, that's it. We're out of time. Professor, thank you so much. And that book again of yours, what's it called?

Gold Medal Physics, The Science of Sports. There you go, people. Thank you very much. That's it. Just in time for the holidays. And Chuck, what will that do if you get one? Well, you know what? Go out and stuff your stock.

That's what you do. That's exactly you do. That's exactly the best advice you'll ever get on any show anywhere. I'm Gary O'Reilly. And I'm Chuck Dye. This has been Playing With Science. Hope you've enjoyed the show. Thank you to the good professor

and thank you for being on board. We look forward to your company very, very soon.