StarTalk Radio - #ICYMI: Hockey: Physics on Ice (Part 1)

Episode Date: March 30, 2017

Get your skates, grab your stick, and join Chuck Nice and Gary O’Reilly as they find out why hockey has more science in it than any sport on Earth! With physics professor Alain Haché, Bauer Hockey���s Craig Desjardin, and LA Kings color commentator Daryl Evans.Don’t miss an episode of Playing with Science. Subscribe on:iTunes Podcasts: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/playing-with-science/id1198280360?mt=2Stitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/startalk/playing-with-scienceTuneIn: http://tunein.com/radio/Playing-with-Science-p952100/SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/startalk_playing-with-scienceGooglePlay Music: https://play.google.com/music/listen?u=0#/ps/Iimke5bwpoh2nb25swchmw6kzjqNOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free. Find out more at https://www.startalkradio.net/startalk-all-access/ Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to new episodes ad-free and a whole week early.

I'm Gary O'Reilly. I'm Chuck Nice. And this is Playing With Science. Yes. Yes, it's high time we got our skates on, grabbed our pads and took to the ice and found out why hockey probably has more science in it than any other sport on Earth, period. Period.

And if you don't believe it, stick around, because this is part one of our two-part series looking at the fastest team sport in the world. And to begin, we examine the science of the shot, the pass and the engineering and tech inside the sticks that bring it all together. Whap-bop-pow! Yeah, and illuminating it for us will be Alain Hachet,

physics professor and author of Slapshot Science and the Physics of Hockey. And before Chuck takes another spin on the Zamboni, we will catch up with the VP of Product at Bauer Hockey Equipment, Craig Desjardins. So if you want to know what goes into the kit, he is certainly the man. And last, but by no means least, we're going to hear from Daryl Evans of the LA Kings, who actually scored the overtime goal in the biggest NHL playoff comeback in history. It's called the Miracle in history. Incredible.

It's called The Miracle on Manchester. Yeah. Which, you know. Kind of got a British theme going on there. Kind of seems like a British thing, but really the arena's on Manchester. So if you remember the forum. The forum. It was on Manchester.

Against the Edmonton Oilers. Yeah. Oh no, there was one guy on the Oilers team who was quite good. Yeah? Yeah, just a little bit. Just a little bit. I don't know.

And if you don't know the story, check it out. Yeah, unbelievable. The Oilers were 5-0 up in the third quarter. Then it all turns around. Yeah. But you know, physics on ice is hockey. Right. And we're going to get into that with Alain Hachet,

and I'm sure that he's going to open up a whole load of stuff. But the Bauer guy, the tech, because those guys aren't going to be behind the curve. They've got to be ahead of the curve. They've got NHL superstars knocking on the door saying, I want this, I want that. This is how my game's evolving. I want you with me.

So that's going to be a really interesting list. Man, we're going to unpack a whole bunch of stuff from physics on ice to the tech to actually a vantage point of a player. We've got it all. Yeah, so if the only thing you know about ice hockey is Wayne Gretzky, then it's a school day just for me and for you.

Let's begin by taking a look at hockey's signature move, the slap shot. One of the fastest, most powerful shots there is. If you like, call it the slam dunk of hockey. Yeah. And, you know, we have a clip that we'd like to show right now. And then after that, we're going to bring in our physicist, Alan Hachet. And the reason why we picked this clip, it's a former hockey player, retired now, but his name is Al Iafrate. And for many years he was with the Washington Capitals. And this particular play represents the slap shot at its best.

Because it's a breakaway play where Iafrate receives the feed and he's all alone almost like it's a penalty shot and you see him just skating as hard as he can and the thing that's funny is that whenever you see a breakaway play in any sport and you know as a former professional soccer player

right? The guy gets alone and it's one on one with the goal but then now there's a whole other thing going off because it's not on the ice anymore. It's between his ears. The whole mentality, if I've done this much, I've got to finish the play. But, am I right? This is the fastest recorded slap

shot in NHL history? Well, he held the record for 16 years for the fastest recorded slap shot in history and he's also known for having one of the fastest and hardest slap shot in history. And he's also known for having one of the fastest and hardest slap shots in NHL history. And on this particular play, he is just haul assing down the ice. He's by himself, isolated one-on-one with the goalie.

Now, a lot of guys at that point, you would see them kind of finesse the shot. They might go left, right, and backhand. They might do a little wrist flip. But what he does, he rears back and pow, just slaps one. And I mean, the goalie never knows what happens. This must be Al's dream. Yeah. And it's come to fruition. So let's watch this. Let's see how this pans out. Oh, baby! Comes to Cavalini.

Lead pass for Iafredi. He's got a breakaway. Al Iafredi scores! And the Cavs lead 3-1. Not too many guys are going to take a slap shot on a breakaway, but we talked about Al's cannon that he has. There you go. You even hear the announcers say,

not too many guys are going to take a slap shot on a breakaway, but you see the cannon that I Afraidy has. It is. I mean, this thing's traveling at more than 100 miles an hour. Yes. I do that in my car. Well, you know what? I'm in charge of a lethal weapon.

I never even thought about it like that. It's like driving a tiny little black car 100 miles an hour on ice into a net. All right. That's insane. Chuck's driving down the ice in his little slick mobile. But there's some serious physics, some serious science behind what we just witnessed. And to help us break it down is Professor of Physics Alain Hachet from the University of Moncton in Canada. Not just a professor, but an author too. Author of Slapshot Science as well as the physics of hockey. Alain, welcome to the show. Now, you've seen the clip, you've heard

how Chuck feels about it. Firstly, are you a hockey player yourself? And then we'll go from there about what you felt you saw going through that whole and before you answer i'm gonna let me let me answer for you i i'm just want to see if i'm right so were you born in canada yes okay and you have lived there your whole life yep okay then i am going to say that you are a hockey player otherwise they would have murdered you by now you guessed right. Chuck, you went for low hanging fruit, didn't you? Alright, Alain, so talk us through what just happened there with that slap shot.

Well, that was a very interesting clip. I had actually never seen it. And it's the first and only time I've seen a player do that. Yeah. It's a good shot. Yeah, we like the uniqueness of our clips. And again, so you're verifying that. Thank you. As was said before, when you're on a breakaway, very often what you'll see, the player will try to deke around the goalie, go left or right,

or take a shot fairly close, go through what they call between the legs, the five holes, or go top corner or something like that. Right. The slap shot is not, I've never seen it, but obviously it worked fine for him. The thing is, it's a very fast shot, but it's not as accurate as a wrist shot that they will use typically on a breakaway when it when he's actually setting himself up there so I'll I'll bake it down into the basics

that I understand there's a weight transference then there's a kick point in the stick and he kind of looks like he hits the ice just before the puck what is happening in terms of the physics and science through that whole process yeah so it's a bit like you have a rotating body, you have the upper body that is rotating and it's transferring that energy to the puck. So you have what they call kinetic energy of the upper body that is rotating and you have an indirect collision actually. That's a very important point because let's say you look at golf. You have the club hitting the ball directly. And when you have that situation, you have the ball leaving at up to twice the speed of the club.

You never exceed that speed limit, no matter what the golf manufacturer, the golf balls manufacturers will tell you. Okay. The physical absolute limits of the speed of the ball will be twice the velocity of the club head. And you would also get the same thing in hockey. And that would be very hard to get hundreds of miles, 100 miles per hour. at hundreds of miles, 100 miles per hour. Instead, what happens is they hit the ice before and they load the stick with a lot more energy that would be normally transferred to the puck.

So that way you can reach higher speeds. So you're saying that the actual collision with the ice and the stick first. Yeah. What that does is it loads the stick with more power so that when the stick... The nitro is... Yeah. What that does is it loads the stick with more power so that when the stick, the nitro is. Yeah. Yeah. So it's almost like the the ice and the stick become like the the cock and hammer of a gun creating that the puck to become the bullet at that point. Is that is that about is that about right or am I off? to become the bullet at that point.

Is that about right or am I off? It would be like loading a spring. Yes. It's a bit like that. You'd load a spring, let's say, by hitting the wall. You just compress the spring and then you move the spring in contact with the puck and then you just throw the puck with that. Gotcha. So once the contact is made with the puck,

once it leaves the stick, is there any force that's being imparted into the sticks, like a stability, like a gyroscopic action, or is this basically a little black flying brick? Actually, yes. So you want the puck to spin on itself. Okay, like the football, you know, if you just throw a regular forward, it's going to go all over the place. The same thing is with the puck.

If you want to have a good, stable trajectory, whether you're passing or shooting to the net, it has to have some spin. Right. some spin. And that is made by the puck moving from the heel to the toe of the stick blade as it leaves, as it's in contact with the blade of the stick. Now, is that a, man, what you're saying there sounds extremely complicated to happen in a fraction of a second. Here is a player. They pull the stick back up in the air, rotate their entire body, comes down, hits the ice, that loads the spring. Then the stick makes contact. So the head of the stick makes go, the blade of the stick makes contact with the puck. At that point, then they have to pull it and then move the stick in such a way that it causes a rotation on the puck for the puck to then become a flying disc and make its way to the net. All of that happens within, what, five-tenths of a second? Is that what you're saying? Because that sounds crazy.

And I don't believe you. No, I'm joking. Is that really what happens? Yes, except for the last detail there. You were saying you'd be pulling the stick towards you or something like that to make the puck rotate. That would be an idea, but actually it's done by the flick of the wrist.

You're moving, you're twisting, the twisting of the stick makes the puck move along the blade and take a spin. You're going to have to forgive me for not knowing that. I am black and I've never played hockey. I'm white and I've never played hockey. I'm white and I've never played hockey.

So we're in good company. Now, the thing is, Alan, I know because you're a scientist that you don't believe in luck, or do you? No, I believe in luck. You're the first! We have a first! Okay, so I'm just thinking, right, the guy who first hit the ice before he hit the puck probably did it by mistake.

And then comes up with a supercharged slap shot. So we've got a discovery, if you like, by accident. And then someone then gets this little bit of twisty Ritz action in there and we've got a whole new slap shot going on. It's one of those things that by accident you discover what has just revolutionized the game in whole new slap shot going on. It's amazing. One of those things that, by accident, you discover what has just revolutionized the game in terms of slap shot. Yeah, I mean, and it's something that if you don't teach players,

they will probably figure it out by themselves, just by trial and error. Yeah. Can you execute a slap shot without hitting the ice before you hit the puck? Yeah, you could do that, but it wouldn't go as fast. My best estimate would be maybe 70, 80 miles per hour. Maybe 70 or 80 miles per hour.

Okay, so I think because we've worked out that hockey players are quite cute, they've worked out the physics, they've worked out all the forces involved, right? Yeah, you might laugh, I know. But do they not then, if they hit the ice before they hit the puck, give away a slap shot is coming to a goalkeeper whose hearing is so acute? Very good question. In fact, yeah, you give plenty of hint when you're coiling back to,

or they say winding back to execute a slap shot, it takes a second or so. So the goalies will get ready. Now, this is the key here. There's a radius of what we could call the depth zone within which the goalie has no time to react. Their human reflexes are just not enough. The human reflexes are just not enough. And the distance where Kyle Eifert, he took his slap shot from, the goalie would just not have enough time to move and execute a slap shot.

So if it finds the hole, it will hit the net. So basically, it's like the play happens so quickly and the puck is moving so fast that the goalie just, it's physically impossible for the goalie to see that, make a reaction, and then get to the puck in time enough to deflect the goal. It's almost like in soccer, right, where on a penalty kick in soccer, where the goalie has to kind of almost anticipate where the shot is going. See, he has to, what Alan is saying there, the read time, the time I have as the goalkeeper to read the situation is longer in soccer maybe than in hockey because everything is traveling so far. We are dealing with the fastest team sport in the world.

Without a doubt, yes. Now, in a soccer player, you will finesse, use power, use trickery, use guile. And I think with hockey players, we have a similar situation. They have a variety of different shots to bring to every different situation and the goalkeeper basically, how on earth hockey games are so low scoring is a testimony maybe to goalkeepers.

I'm not quite sure. Alan will back me up on that, man. Well, see, the strategies that have been developed by goalies to counter a situation like that is that you see the guys taking a slap shot, you know you will not have enough time to react. So what do you do? You try to look as big as possible.

It takes about two-tenths of a second for the hand to move and about four-tenths of a second for the legs to move into position. So the technique that's been developed over time is they use the butterfly technique where they cover the bottom of the ice, which is the most vulnerable one. It's the slowest part of the body. And they try to look as big as possible.

The posture and your glove and your blocker has to be put in a position where you block as much as the net and you just hope that the puck will hit you and not the net. I didn't think I'd be hearing butterfly and ice hockey in the same sentence, but I like it. I get the analogy. And so basically at that point during a slap shot, as a goalie, your job is just to be a human shield. Really?

Just go ahead. Take one for the team. Literally is, is really what you're saying. Alan, have you found, I mean, when I said they got all this physics worked out and you kind of pulled a face at me,

are hockey players, elite hockey players, natural born mathematicians, physicists, or is this just natural skill that's coming through? It's natural skills and it's not, you know, only to hockey. Think about it. I mean, take baseball, for instance. You have the outfielder who looks at the ball for a fraction of a second, then he can figure in his head where it's going to fall, then run in that direction. Now, to solve that, you need computers, you need the physics equation, Newton's laws, and everything.

But the human mind has developed a skill to predict the trajectory quite accurately just from experience, from past experience. And we're not the only one. I mean, if I take my Frisbee and I throw it to a dog, the dog is not going to run after the Frisbee. He's going to just wait till the Frisbee is there and he's going to jump up and catch it because it knows in its head what the trajectory should be yes but the uh the difference is that dog doesn't have opposable thumbs so he can't throw it back to me so you take that dog remember who's your master no hating on dogs all i'm saying all right so we've we've

got slap shots clocked at over 100 miles an hour um and that's frightening to me. It's seriously frightening. I don't want to be near the ice, let alone in the gold. Can we make this thing go faster? And if we can, if we can make the, and for it to go faster, I guess it would have to be some technological advances to equipment or, you know, superhuman strength. But if we can make it go faster, right now it's like 108 is the fastest. Let's say we got a slap shot up to around 115. Is there a point where it's just not humanly possible to handle this? Yeah, I mean, you know, certainly technological improvements have been made in the past. If you look at the modern sticks they're using, they're one-piece composite sticks.

Yeah. In the old days, they would use laminated wood, and those sticks would be a bit more lossy, so they would absorb energy instead of transferring to the puck. Now they've gone into regimes where most of the energy that, when you bend the stick, most of it will go back to the pump. So that part is already quite high. Upper body strength, physical skills and all that. But I don't see the possibility of reaching beyond, you know, very much higher than 110. Really? Okay.

So let me just ask you one last thing before we wrap it up. When you talk about these players, and, you know, the slap shot is not an accurate shot. So, you know, I've seen players do a couple things where, one, they will wind up like a slap shot and end up making a wrist shot. I don't know what that's called, but it looks really cool. Like the guy winds up like he's about to just, you know, unleash hell.

And then they slow down and pop and just give it a, you know, and it fools the goalie into thinking that a slap shot was coming and the goalie goes the wrong way. But aside from the subterfuge or fooling the goalie goes the wrong way. But aside from the subterfuge or fooling the goalie, it looks like these guys are able to take the puck and put it on a certain part of the stick in order to make certain types of shots. Are these guys that good?

Is that what they're doing? Putting the puck on the tip of the stick, putting it in the middle of the blade, putting it on the back heel and doing things with it that way to create different shots? Yeah, I mean, there's definitely, it's important the way you shoot the puck.

And of course, there's some adjustment, whether you use a slap shot or wrist shot, or they call it a slap wrist shot as well. It's a kind of a hybrid thing, which is a bit quicker release. Not as fast, but because it's a quicker release, it's hard for the goalie

to stop it anyways. But yeah, the way, I mean, a player like me, I'm a goalie actually, but if I take a shot, if I take a shot, you know, oftentimes the puck will just, you know,

just wobble in space because I just don't master the technique that well. But, yeah, you really have to impart a spin. You really have to shoot it a certain way. And if you don't do it well, it shows. Wow. Okay. Well, look, Alain, thank you for being on our show.

From fake shots to a real break. And when we come back, it's all about the tech and the science in the stick with the VP of product from Bauer. Stick around. Welcome back. I'm Gary O'Reilly. And I'm Chuck Nice. And this is Playing With Science.

Yes, it is. Of course, you knew that because you've been tuned in from the beginning. And today, it's all about physics on you knew that because you've been tuned in from the beginning. And today, it's all about physics on ice as we explore the science of hockey shots. And now joining us by video call to break down the technology that goes into a hockey stick. And we are really privileged to have him, Craig Desjardins, Vice President of Product at Bauer Hockey. Welcome, Craig.

Yeah. Thanks for joining us, man. Thanks for having me on, guys. Hey, let me, before we get into any technical equipment questions, Desjardins, very popular hockey name. Any relation to any of the great

Desjardins that have played the sport? I would, somewhere along the family tree, possibly, but it's probably half the phone book in the province of Quebec. That's true. That is so true. He's a modest man. Yeah.

Modest man. Okay. Let's, as it were, start at the beginning. The evolution of the hockey stick is going to basically have started with a piece of wood, was it not? It was. I mean, and I think, you know, if you look at hockey sticks today, which are primarily made of composite, I mean, from a distance, they probably look similar to the wood stick you played with 20 years ago. But the reality is when you start looking at the taper area, the bottom eight inches of the stick, and you start looking under the hood in terms of the materials and the geometries that are being used, there's a significant difference between the two. Wow. Okay.

So, all right, let's start with the technology of the material and move on to the geometry. What, if anything, has revolutionized the hockey stick in terms of A1 material? Well, I think what you have is in the majority of sort of high-end or sticks that are being used in the NHL, they're primarily made of carbon fiber. So carbon fiber. And what makes carbon fiber such a wonderful material for hockey sticks and Corvettes and all lovely manner of technologically aesthetic? I mean, aside from the fact that it can be molded, what makes carbon fiber so great for a hockey stick? Well, I think it has a very high strength to weight ratio.

has a very high strength to weight ratio and and if you think of a stick being made up of 13 or 14 layers being wrapped around a mandrel or a bladder and then having to compress all those layers together um i mean what you're getting is consistency so if you compare a wood stick which obviously if you repeatedly bend it over time uh to a composite stick, which is not only a much more consistent product, but you're also having a longer playability, longer performance of that stick over time. Because the challenge with hockey as opposed to a sport of golf is there's so many different tasks that the stick has to perform. It has to shoot. It has to stick handle. It has to pass. It has to receive passes.

It has to slash other players. It has to take faith off. So it's very complex in terms of how the stick needs to, for example, bend in the X and the Y axis. It has to be responsive and durable at the same time, which is extremely difficult. So let me ask you, from what you just said, when you talk about all these different things, I mean, the hockey stick, without it, there is no game of hockey. You know, the stick is a part of every single play. With that in mind, do different players use different sticks?

Or is there just one standard stick? So if I'm a defenseman, am I using a different stick than I would if I was a left winger? That's a great question. I think what we've sort of bucketed our sticks into sort of three unique families, Supreme, Nexus, and Vapor. And within those three families, each of those sticks has a unique shaft shape or geometry. Okay. They have a unique flex profile, and they have a unique blade construction.

So maybe let's start with, you know, just because you play a certain position, you might skate differently, and you might shoot or load the stick differently. Okay. And that means some players are looking for that quick release. They really want to just be able to load that stick on a quick snapshot. Other players really want to lean into that stick and load that shaft with energy. Okay.

can load that that shaft with energy okay other players are looking for more stability because they're battling forward in the corner and they want to make sure they're getting the responsiveness and consistency that they're looking for so our we try to evaluate players and for example in our innovation center in blainville quebec we can bring players in, put them on the ice, shoot them with high speed video, instrument them with strain gauges, and actually measure and match what kind of profile best suits their shooting style. So how have you coped with that in terms of the evolution of the sport of hockey itself and your equipment in particular, as we're discussing the sticks, have you been able to stay ahead of the curve? I don't mean that as a pun. Um,

have you, have you been able to do that? Uh, I mean, we, we believe so. Um, you know,

we have, you know, over 40% share in the NHL. Um, and I think what we're trying to do is, you know, when we're looking for new materials to go into our stick, our benchmark isn't other products in the sporting goods industry.

We're working with companies in the aerospace industry. We're using similar foams and carbon fibers that are being used in Formula One or on a Boeing airplane. Wow. All right. Let's go back to, because we're going to get carried away here with a whole lot of other technology and sports. And I know Chuck and I are just desperate to get there with you. Who cares? Let's get carried away, baby. I don't care.

Okay. I'm ready to get swept away. We've got guys listening for hockey. Yes. The flex point, is it called the kick point? You play with that high or low, and what sort of change-up can that give you, and can you actually build a variable

flex point into a stick? So first of all, before we go any further, why don't you give us a breakdown of the stick in terms of flex point, just in case there's some, I think it'll be a little bit more interesting if the listener knows exactly what that is. And then tell us about what Gary said in terms of a variable flex point. what that is and then tell us about what Gary said in terms of a variable flex point. Yeah, great question. So, you know, if you think of the stick from top to bottom, you know, what we're talking about is how essentially the stick bends and where it bends. So, if you start at the bottom, the stiffer the stick is in the bottom 8 to 10 inches, the higher the kick point,

which means you can really load that stick if it has a high kick point and really lean into it and still let that blade whip through, but it's going to take a little bit longer versus a stick that has a more flexible taper and hosel where you're not looking for quite as robust a shooting motion. Right. But you have to get that shot off as quickly as possible so the stick can be easier to load.

Gotcha. So you don't have to lean into it as much as what you're saying, but you can get off a quick shot. So if I'm a defenseman, then that's kind of maybe the shot that I, that's maybe the stick I want, right? Because I'm not really offensive minded, but I'm also, any chance I get that I can take that shot, I want to do it and as quickly as possible, right? Correct. And I mean, even within defensemen, that might be suitable for a stay at home defenseman.

Right. But for a puck moving defenseman who stick handles quite a bit and is involved more in the play, they might be looking for something that's a little more whippy down towards the hosel. So the beauty is we can evaluate each of these players relatively quickly and understand their shooting characteristics, what they like, and then match them with the right technology. them with the right technology. Let's travel further south down to the blade. Now you play with all different sorts of sizes, shapes, and surfaces. Am I right in terms of what you construct on the blade itself? Yeah, there's, I mean, there's, there's not a whole lot we can't do. But, you know, if you think of the blade, you know, at 30,000 feet. I mean, you essentially want something that's relatively stiff. So, you know, you can get that shot off and it's really, you know, the puck's going to come whipping off the blade.

But the beauty is you can also play with the foams that are being used on the inside of the blade and also the geometry to, you know, have something that dampens the puck a little bit more so you have more feel. You know, you might want, in some cases, we've used dual densities inside a blade so the bottom half is denser so it has a better feel, but you want that blade to be lightweight so the balance is there.

So the upper half is a less dense material. Do you put anything on the surface of the blade to help control? And when that little wrist action get a little bit of stability on the pass on the shot? You know what? We have a lot of demand, especially with NHL players for sort of like a sandblast finish. Really? And is that so it can grab the puck? Well, in theory, you'd think so, but most players are taping over top of it. So, you know, players swear that... Wait a minute. Wait a minute. That'll be playing for you.

What the hell is that? I really need a sandblast finish so that I can put a condom on it. Can you send me some tape? Yeah, send me some tape with your sandblast finish. That's insane. You know, the players swear that they notice a difference and we can't necessarily quantify it,

but the feedback's been really positive. While we're talking about blades, one of our listeners has tweeted in. He is Chief Spatora from the New York Fire Department, a person we would salute. He was inquiring about blade curvature and the fact that didn't you get to a point where the NHL said, no, you can't have it at certain dimensions and reined it back in? Is that correct? Yeah, I think there's maximums on how long a stick can be, how long a blade can be, and then the amount of curve.

And if I have too much of a curve on my blade, have I got an unfair advantage with puck control? Yeah, does it give you – because, like, let's say you put enough curve on it that it's really just a highlight. Like a highlight. What's that thing that you use? Like a hockey stick like a field hockey stick or something like does that give you a uh an advantage well i think there it's uh it's relative to the situation so definitely the more curve you have uh on a uh on a blade the more spin you can put on the puck okay gotcha so the more spin you put on it the more stability you have in the puck when you can put on the puck. Okay, gotcha. So the more spin you put on it, the more stability you have in the puck when you're shooting it.

So that's the advantage. That's part of it. And players around the net are not necessarily taking these big sweeping motions. They're just trying to get the puck up quickly over the goalie, whereas someone who maybe is stick handling or uses their backhand more frequently

would want a flatter curve. So they'd have the ability to shoot equally forehand and backhand craig thank you so much for your time thank you for breaking down a lot of science and technology that's gone into the bauer products and in particular the sticks and the goalkeepers mask we are going to take a break and when we come back we'll have a little bit of nhl royalty and that would be daryl evans from the la kings of course former player and a man with a wonderful history just think the miracle on manchester we'll be right back welcome back i'm gary o'reilly i'm chuck nice yes of course he's still playing with science and today as you will know

if you've been tuned in all show we've explored the physics around Slapshot and the tech in the stick itself and both left me illuminated. Absolutely. And now royalty. Yes. I aim for a little bit of royalty on the show. Yeah, you know, we heard from, you know, Professor Alain Hachette. We've heard from, you know, the tech aspect with Craig Desjardins from Bauer. And now it's time to talk to a real expert, somebody who's actually been in battle on the ice, a man who knows what it is to have the pressure of an NHL playoff game unlike any other game in the history of the NHL. Like, this is not hyperbole what I'm saying right here. This is a quantifiable fact.

This man played in a game like no other hockey game in the history of hockey. We're talking none other than left-wing-turned-LA-Kings radio analyst Darrell Evans. What's happening, Darrell? I'm great, but boy, the way you guys are talking me up, if I had you as an agent, I might still be playing. Don't worry, we'll be taking a commission after the show. I mean, but come on, Darrell. You've got to be honest, man. I mean, they didn't call it the miracle in Manchester for nothing, okay?

I just got to know. When you think about it, first of all, to come back from in hockey. We're talking about hockey here. The score is 5-0. Yeah. Okay? And people are in their cars on their way home in the second period. Even the owner walks out.

The owner. The owner. He was in a jacuzzi. All right? You know, just relaxing, trying to get his head together. That's got to just be unbelievable to be a part of a game where it's the single biggest comeback in NHL history. Tell the truth. Yeah, it really is. You know, I think it's something that I've really learned to appreciate probably more over the, you know, the latter

years than immediately when it happened. And I think sometimes, you know, when you look back at that series, I think, you know, even overcoming that 5 goals of winning the game, but, you know, probably even go back a little bit further as that series started, just the difference between the two teams, the Oilers that year finished 46 points ahead of the Kings. So just the matchup in the playoff series, they were so heavily favored. So, you know, that even magnified it even a little bit more. Yeah. Talk about David and Goliath. I mean, seriously. even magnified it even a little bit more.

Yeah, talk about David and Goliath. I mean, seriously. Is it right, Daryl, that when they started to take that extensive lead, some of the Oilers players didn't treat you with respect? No, you particularly, but the Kings would respect on the ice? Well, I wouldn't say they didn't treat us with respect, but I think at that point they were a young team and they were probably a little on the cocky side. And they had every right to do so, you know, to feel that way.

You know, they had built themselves a 5-0 lead. They were one of the greatest scoring teams ever, you know, in the history of the game. And, you know, they felt that, you know, leading by five goals, they were in a comfortable and a confident spot. They'd won the previous game, be it it was in overtime. But I think they felt that now they were, you know, starting to take a stranglehold on the series and, you know, taking everything back in their favor.

So, you know, they had every right to kind of feel that way. And because of the inexperience that they had at, you know, having success in the National Hockey League that, you know, they may have overdone it a little bit, but, you know, that's what makes sports. And, you know, it just goes to show you how things can turn around, you know, just over a couple of breaks, you're there. Yeah. From my experience of professional sport, there are now and again games where all of a sudden, in your mind, you say,

I know the score's against us, but we're going to win this. It's just you can't explain it. It just pops into your head. Did that moment happen to you? Oh, man, that's a really good question because I got to hear this. When you're down 5-0 and you're playing hockey, that's the equivalent of being down 65-2 in a basketball game. Okay?

So do you really feel like it's okay? We're going to do this. Maybe not at 5-0. Maybe not at 5-0, but, you know, well, then here's the question then. At what point? There you go. At what point in the game do you say, holy moly, we can do this? At what point and what is the psychology, where is your mind,

where is your state of being from a professional athlete's standpoint when that happens? Well, I think I, you know, personally, I was starting to feel pretty good about it after the puck went over Grant Fier's shoulder and we were up 6-5. I thought we could win. Now that's a good answer. I think when we look at the game, the mindset of the hockey team going into the third period was to win the final period and try to carry a little bit of momentum going into the next game. We were fortunate that Jay Wells scored just a couple of minutes into the period. By the middle of the period, we were trailing by a score of 5-2.

So now it was at a respectable point. I think when it finally became 5-3 and then we had a power play, Gary Unger taking a major penalty, we had a power play. Gary Young had taken a major penalty, so we had a power play for the remainder of the third period. I think at that point that there was a little bit of reality saying that possibly we could do this. If we can continue to keep

moving, and momentum was in our favor at that time. There was moments in the game they had a couple of breakaways in the third period that they didn't have success on, that our goaltender was able to turn aside. So when you start to see these little things start to go in your favor, you have a little bit more belief.

But I think probably the first reality was when we were within two goals, when it was 5-3, that we had a legit chance. Now it's just a matter of, was the clock going to be able to hang out for us? Which it certainly did. And then, of course, you guys end up tying it up and you go into overtime. And I believe, you know, I hope you don't mind us reliving this with you.

But no, not at all. But I think we have the clip. To the left of Grand Pure. Doug Smith out. Darrell Evans and Bozak, an all-rookie front line. Wells and Chartreaux back. Smith on the draw. Shot by Evans. He scores! Darryl Evans shot it from the right side up under the crossbar.

And the Kings have taken the lead in the series. They came from behind to win the overtime. Six to five. And the Kings lead the series. Two games in a row. I love that little step where you're going backwards after scoring.

Oh, man. The thing is, you don't know what you're going to do. If you score and you celebrate, unless you've got one of those choreographed routines, the moment just takes you. And I think that's what happened to Daryl. Nice. So let me ask you something. You're a guy that's been around this game for a very long time. I'm not calling you old, but in hockey years, you're a pretty old guy. I'm sure Daryl thanks you for that. But no, what I'm saying is that here's one thing that I've noticed about hockey.

I've seen a few games live. It is the fastest sport there is. It's amazing the speed with which you guys are flying around that ice. It is amazing the speed with which that puck is moving. And I've watched it on television, and I have to tell you, not that big of a fan. It does not translate to television. What do you think? Because you're an analyst.

You've seen a million games. You call games. What can be done to bring the excitement that is hockey live to the television screen. Because for me, it's a lot like NASCAR. You go to a NASCAR track and you watch these guys zip around that track at these incredible speeds. You hear the roar of the engine. There's nothing like it live. You watch it on TV.

It's just a bunch of guys driving in a circle as far as I'm concerned, and I can't watch it. TV, it's just a bunch of guys driving in a circle as far as I'm concerned, and I can't watch it. What can be done to hockey to bring that speed and that excitement to television? I think it's probably the placement of some of the cameras. I know in the new stadiums,

since they've been built, the next generation of stadiums that have taken away those prime camera spots that were usually about 20-30 feet above ice level, really captured the game maybe a little more tightly. The cameras are now a little higher, a little bit more removed from what we're seeing. I think that takes away from a little bit of what's actually going on on the ice. I think in order to appreciate the game, I think it's something that you really have to see live a number of times in order to be able to go watch it and follow it, you know, on TV.

But, you know, if you just turn it on TV and somebody's never been to a game, it's tough. I think once you're in that environment and you see it at game speed, you see the force and everything that's going into it, I think that gives you a better appreciation. And I think the only way that you can capture that is with those cameras being closer to the ice and, you know, even some of some of the, you know, the sound effects and, you know, that kind of stuff that you can capture, you know, that,

that grunt work that's going on in those battles along the boards, you know, actually hearing that puck when it comes off a post, as opposed to from a distance, like even as far as we, as we sit in Staples Center where I'm calling games now, you can hear the ping up there, but if you were able to capture that, like on TV where that camera and a microphone is right down at that level and you can hear that thing pop off the pipe, I think it'll give people a greater appreciation for actually what's going on on the ice. Yeah, you're absolutely right.

A full sensual involvement. Yes, it has to be. never been to a live game, but enjoy hockey. That sort of immersing myself with more of my senses, I can see that really being a way to drag people into it, to give them the feel. Yeah, and as a matter of fact, you're absolutely right about that. When you hear that clap, when the stick hits the puck inside the arena, it's the same thing of being at a ballpark and you hear the crack inside the arena. It's the same thing of like being at a ballpark and you hear the crack of a bat.

It's that same type of feeling, you know what I mean? So yeah, I agree with you. I just hope the NHL does some stuff to bring that because I think that we live in such a visual society that bringing more excitement to television hockey will do wonders for me. There's camera development all the time. If you think about the whole GoPro thing,

you think about the camera angles that are happening in other sports and the numbers, I think it's only a matter of time before that appears in NHL, at least I would hope so. It's a great sport. It deserves it. Is there anything that these players have today that you look at? I don't care if it's equipment. I don't care if it's equipment. I don't care if it's technological advancement. I don't care if it's things that the team or the front office does for

players that might be different. But what is different in the game today that you look at and go, damn, if only they had that when I was playing? Yeah, I think a lot of it has changed, you know, right from the, you know, the off-ice workouts and the way that we prepare, the exercises they do in the gym. You know, when I grew up in an era was, you know, lift as much as you can, you know, as often as you can. And, you know, it didn't matter what you tore and, you know, what you ripped and what you broke. It just, you know, it's just try to get as strong as you possibly can. And now there's a lot of thought put into it, which muscles you're actually developing. Now there's a lot of thought put into it, which muscles you're actually developing.

You know, I've heard reference over the years, you know, quick twitch muscles and that type of stuff. I think the accessibility of a video, being able to study your opponent, I think from what we put into fueling our bodies, you know, from, you know, technology there, getting the right diets and, you know, what your body best performs on, the mental frame of mind, getting yourself there. And, you know, each and every piece of equipment, you know, equipment has gotten lighter. The sticks right now, you know, we used to play with just a, you know, basic wooden stick. And really there was no two sticks that were identical because they're from natural sources in wood, where now everything is, you know, prefab and made and you can get, you know, order a dozen sticks, they're going to be all the same. So, you know, I think they have that luxury, you know, the weight of things like that.

And these players now when they, you know, when they're selecting sticks, you know, they'll go to the stick manufacturer, they'll put, you know, points, pressure points on the stick as to, you know, where your torque come from, where your pop point is. So you're actually back in, you know, as I look at it, you know, my generation even further back, it was probably more the magician. And now it's the wand. You learn to use your stick now and you can succeed with it. Whereas before there was so much put upon the individual, just, you know, the natural ability that you had and the things that you were able to create. But I think now we have

resources to be able to complement that natural gift an athlete has in any sport. But now we can enhance it by making all the resources around it, all the equipment they use, even the surface of ice that we skate on, everything better to just make a better product for the

people to watch. Wow. You used to be the magician, now it's about the wand. watch. Wow. Used to be the magician. Now it's about the wand. Yeah. What a great phrase. Thank you for giving us that one. All right, here we go. We got to wrap up.

But before we go, I just got to know this because, you know, just to find out, there's a little bit of a more of a little bit of a Rorschach test here for you, Daryl. All right. What? It's a little game of a Rorschach test here for you, Daryl. All right? It's a little game of would you rather. Okay? Would you rather score a goal or put a devastating check on another player that you really don't like? I want to put that puck in the back of the net.

Ah. Yeah. All right. There you go. That hurts more. That hurts more. That hurts more. Oh. Yeah, you see?

Oh, look at that. No, no, no. Daryl's got it. I'm absolutely with him. There you go. That's how you hurt an opponent. You hurt the guy where it really counts. Yeah, back of the net.

Get laying them out. You're sending them home a loser. Yeah. Okay. All right. Good answer. Daryl, thank you so much for sharing your time. Best to you.

Best to the Kings. And you know what? We look forward to your company in the future, maybe sometime soon on the show. Thanks so much, man. I look forward to it, guys. Thanks for the conversation. It was great, great sharing some of that stuff with you.

Best of luck with everything. All right, Daryl, thanks as usual. That was cool, man. Man, this guy's great. It used to be about the magician, now it's all about the wand. Equipment in hockey really means a lot. It does now.

But as Daryl said, you got natural ability that is not off the chart, but way on its way up. And then you bolt on all this super new equipment. It's amazing. The game has just got elevated. Right. new equipment. It's amazing. The game has just got elevated. Right. I mean, it's amazing. It's probably the sport where you can see tech in terms of equipment being meshed with a player more so than any other sport. So there you go.

Yeah. The guys are playing with science and they're playing with it on ice. The guys are playing with science and they're playing with it on ice. And there will be another hockey show coming up before you blink. And then we'll get stuck into more physics and the technology this time of the skates. And trust me, you're really going to love what's going on with those skates. So, I've been playing with science. I'm Gary O'Reilly. I'm Chuck Nice.

See you all soon.