StarTalk Radio - #ICYMI – How Technology Is Changing Football

Episode Date: March 9, 2017

Find out how helmet sensors, virtual reality, big data and radio controlled tackling dummies are revolutionizing football with hosts Gary O’Reilly and Chuck Nice. Guests include Neil Tyson, NY Jets QB Ryan Fitzpatrick, Dartmouth coach Buddy Teevens, more.Don’t miss an episode of Playing with Science. Subscribe on:iTunes Podcasts: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/playing-with-science/id1198280360?mt=2Stitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/startalk/playing-with-scienceTuneIn: http://tunein.com/radio/Playing-with-Science-p952100/SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/startalk_playing-with-scienceGooglePlay Music: https://play.google.com/music/listen?u=0#/ps/Iimke5bwpoh2nb25swchmw6kzjqNOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free. Find out more at https://www.startalkradio.net/startalk-all-access/ Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to new episodes ad-free and a whole week early.

I'm Gary O'Reilly. And I'm Chuck Nice. And this is Playing With Science. Today we are looking at the cutting-edge tech that is changing football at every level. NFL has been late to the party when it comes to big data and its analytics, but now it's game on. We're talking player tracking, bio data and virtual reality training that are revolutionizing the way players

and coaches do their thing. The guys responsible for bringing us all this technical ecstasy are today's guests. Jill Stelfox, VP of Zebra Technologies, whose organization is changing the way coaches go about their game day strategies and much, much more. I love the way you say Zebra. That's awesome. Okay.

Yeah. And Derek Belch, CEO and co-founder of Stryver, is one of the men behind the VR training sensation that is sweeping through the world of football. the VR training sensation that is sweeping through the world of football, and Buddy Tiemens, head coach at Dartmouth College, who's actually benefiting from the appliance of this science. And as a special bonus, we have Neil deGrasse Tyson talking to New York Jets quarterback and all-around smart guy, Ryan Fitzpatrick. Yes. So stick around. It's going to be a whole lot of fun.

A lot of fun indeed. And to kick things off, we're going to take a little look and listen to a clip of a coach interacting with some technology on the sideline. And, you know, it always doesn't go the way you think it does. Well, Belichick was checking out the tablet and was not happy. Look out, tablet. Now, for those of you who don't have... Who won? The tablet or Belichick?

I don't think the tablet, just like anybody who goes up against Bill Belichick, the tablet ultimately lost. But I kind of think we saw there, we witnessed a watershed moment. The old school, old school clipboard, pen, paper versus a bit of new technology. And I think from now on on we're going to see the guys that side and the guys the other side. And it's true because what we were

just witnessing for those of you who are listening what we were witnessing here in studio was Bill Belichick taking a tablet throwing it down

like it was a clipboard and it's like dude those cost money. Yeah. Like okay we can get more clipboards alright these things we're actually paying for because the NFL

has a partnership with Microsoft Surface and they use them instead of clipboards because not only can you write plays on them, you can pull up pictures. I mean, it's a completely immersive, interactive experience on the sideline. Plus it's $400 million worth of contracts. Right, plus it's a $400 million deal.

You know, that always helps, right? That's right. But like you said, Gary, what you have is a classic depiction of old school and new school coming together. And right there, we saw a little bit of a clash. And here's another clip that we have that actually shows exactly what you said.

Old school, as in the game, coming together with new school, which is technology the way it should be. Yeah. So what does all this data mean? Many tech companies are hoping it means new ways to exploit and enhance the game viewing experience. The way we integrate next-gen stats into the broadcast is basically by following along the storylines of the game. Giants in Washington getting set to start on Thursday night football.

We look to find big time gains with running backs or wide receivers. We look to say separation between defensive backs and wide receivers. Manning back to throw. Steps up. Deep ball. Odell Beckham Jr. on the post. Now someone can say, it's 22 miles an hour fast. You bet it is. It's number one in the league this week. Wow. Wow, indeed. You know what's going to happen? There's going to be so much data comes off of this kind of tech.

The teams are not going to know what to do with it. And the smart guys are going to find out how to access everything that they can give them quicker than the others. And that's going to give them the edge. Yeah, it's like technological warfare along with the warfare that's on the field, that's happening on the field. Which is, you know, we've seen it for years in baseball. You know, there are certain things in baseball that you do that are just automatic. If you have a man on this base and a man on this base and there's two outs, you do this. If there's one out, then you

bunt. If you position a player in this way for a suicide squeeze, so there's so many there's so much. Do you know something you said earlier on before we came on air? What's that? I know it's a gladiatorial event, right? Absolutely.

This has weaponized the teams. This is really where it's gone. In a nice way. No, yeah. It really has. It's the coolest thing. It's teams weaponizing technology. The other thing that's cool is Neil deGrasse Tyson

catching up with New York Jets quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick, a man entrusted with not just this technology, but the ball too. Do you have any sense that artificial intelligence going forward could, in one way or another, assist the game of football? Could there be some machine that analyzes the game unfolding as a coach would, but then have much better data? Kind of like in baseball,

where there's so much time between plays, everybody can just look at the lifetime of statistics. What zone does this player hit the ball into? Do you see a future for AI in the NFL? It's difficult because there are so many statistics in baseball. There's so many things that they have in that game that we don't in ours ours is i guess maybe a little more imperfect and uh there are certainly patterns but aren't they aren't they tracking you now with chips so that they know how much you've run and how far you've gone in a game and and and positionally yes that's the next thing, right? And also maybe even for player safety, the impact, potentially a blow to the head or something. I think that's some way that it may affect the game.

So do you foresee a time where there's not only the chip that tracks where you are and how far you've run, but also something that can measure accelerations, kind of like the accelerometer on your smartphone. If that's the case, then we can track how much damage has happened or how much sort of, how much stress your body has sustained during a game. Yeah, yeah, and I think... Is that coming? Do you see that coming?

I think it's right there. I think it's really close. And they'll even – they have like the next-gen stats. So during a game, they'll talk about, you know, who ran the fastest. They'll put it up on the scoreboard. You know, somebody ran 21.8 miles an hour. And so even to track how fast people are going at their top speed at the beginning of the game versus the end of the game and how tired people get.

Yeah. And if you have data on them, you can say this guy's going to tire out by the first quarter, third quarter, let's run against him instead of some, I mean, this is like baseball, like, like we agreed baseball does this, been doing this forever. I mean, this is like we agreed, baseball does this, been doing this forever. Wow. And the funny thing is, Neil is making conjecture there. But the truth is, all that technology exists right now. Yeah, the future is today. The future is today.

And the person who actually helps the NFL do that is with us right now. On the line, we have VP of Zebra Technologies, Jill Stelfox. Jill, welcome to the show. Hi, Jill. Thanks, Guy. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure. Straight out, what is the science behind your technology, and what does it provide the NFL, the clubs, the coaches, the players?

We have two RFID chips in the shoulder pads of each football player. We also have that same technology on the refs, on the sticks, and in the ball this last season for Thursday night games. Wow. And so those chips blink positional information up to 25 times a second, and it's caught with receivers in the stadium. So when a movement happens on the field of play, so when we get it in our servers, it's about 120 milliseconds. So near real time. Wow. Exactly.

I mean, that is extremely impressive. And what you're really talking about is, I was about to say, you said near real time. I'm like, that's real time tracking. And for those who are uninitiated, RFID is simply radio frequency identification, which is not really a new technology. RFID has been around for quite some time. But it's using it in a new way. You are using it in a very unique way. How exactly did

you guys come to, how did this come about? Because I mean, first of all, it's genius to be able to track players in real time, and we'll get into the benefits of that. But how exactly did this come about? So, it's interesting because, just like you guys were saying, RFID technology has been around for years and years and years and years. And at Zebra, we have been using it in manufacturing of cars and planes and all kinds of heavy equipment, retail, for a long, long time, where we track goods, people, services. And the interesting thing is, we were, about three years ago, we were looking at what other areas could use technology like this, and we came up with sports.

And we did a test with the NFL and it worked great and so we've been working with them as their official player tracking company for the last three or four years and it's been great actually all kinds of insights so what sort of data can you provide Chuck who's my new head coach here, in-game? Or is there a delay as to the information being assimilated and then brought to the coach's table or on a tablet in front of him? So today we provide in-game information around speed, distance, closing distance of two players, for example.

And all of that information goes to fans and the broadcaster for the game. It's not actually used by the coaching staff on the sidelines today. Okay. But the data goes to coaches, trainers, all of those kind of folks four hours after the end of a game. So they've got access to the information after the game. So it's really serving kind of a two-fold purpose. On the one hand, you're making the game a little bit more exciting for the viewer. Because now there is another layer for the viewer to get into the game.

Because now there is another layer for the viewer to get into the game. So let's say you get a punt return where the player breaks away down the sideline and you can track the speed that that player is running for the entire play. And you can broadcast that speed almost in real time to the viewer who is in the stadium, right? Exactly. It's interesting because it ends up being in real time to the television viewer because our television feed is delayed 10 to 15 seconds. Exactly. So it's in real time to the television viewer and near real time to the stadium viewer. So anybody who's into fantasy football,

real time to the stadium viewer. So anybody who's into fantasy football, I can see this becoming another aspect of fantasy football. It's a more immersive experience for football fans. Yeah. Definitely. Yep. So you can imagine I have lots of friends during fantasy football season because there is a tremendous amount of information that you can get from these chips

and that the NFL today makes available to fans. One of the things, for example, that you guys were talking about earlier is the speed at the beginning of a game versus the speed at the end of a game. And obviously for fantasy football, that's a nice thing to know. Oh, absolutely. And now when you talk about this from a coaching standpoint, you say that, you know, basically are you giving like from a big data standpoint, like just all this information, is it kind of like a data dump from the entire game that the coaches now have at their disposal? dump from the entire game that the coaches now have at their disposal? Because I would imagine you would be able to utilize players differently based on the data that you're providing after a

game. Yeah, it's actually really kind of fascinating because it's a good example of big data in that, you know, calculating the latitude and longitude of all 22 players during the whole game, it's a tremendous amount of data. But really, if you're a coach, what you want to know is, in that play, did we run it effectively? And if I could do it over, did I have the right matchup in terms of the time of the game and where my players were at? But then think about it from the player perspective, which is what I would call small data.

Like I want to know how did I do? Was I effective? And what three to five things could I improve on for next game? That's the kind of thing you can get from this so the thing I'm while you're saying that my mind's kind of exploring how I would use the data and then I realize you're giving me an absolute massive amount of data firstly are the coaches able do they realize yet just how much data they've got access to? And are they asking the right questions of it as far as you're aware? So two things.

One is this kind of data needs history to it. And so this is our third full year in the NFL. third full year in the NFL, and you need to sort of collect that much data to be able to look back and say, gosh, out of my 16 games in the last three years, how effective were we? And so some of it is that, believe it or not, you need more and more data to get better answers. And now that we're here in this year, I would say yes. They're asking great questions. And, you know, they do get all the data, but they also get a lot of tools to be able to analyze the data, summary information, great reports, so that they don't have to go fish through all the details. And do you help them with that?

go fish through all the details. And do you help them with that? Does your company actually help kind of break down the data so it's delivered in these digestible forms? We do. The NFL provides information. We also provide information. It's funny because when you work with data a lot, you can obviously get a lot of insights. And one of the things I always joke about is, you know, at Zebra, we're a bunch of data nerds. And, you know, at the NFL, they're football people. And so you bring those two skills together, and I think you can get some really great insights. That's awesome. Can you tell us about enterprise asset intelligence, which is something I heard you talk about, and I'm a bit of a nerd myself.

It doesn't show. But tell us about that, enterprise asset intelligence. Yeah, so enterprise asset intelligence, we think, is the ability to give you visibility into information that you wouldn't ordinarily get and turn that visibility into what we call insights. And so bringing together lots of data, being able to analyze it very quickly, and then allow you to make good decisions. And so if we go back to our roots in the manufacturing environment, for example, when you're out on the manufacturing floor building a car,

you need to know in seconds if something's going wrong. And if it is, what are the three options that you have to get the line back on track? And so we give you kind of that next best answer of what to do or next best action. Wow. I'm just thinking the application of that in football is tremendous. Because it sounds to me like what you did was you took something that was really a logistics thing. Because when you talk about manufacturing and tracking devices, I mean, in a lifetime ago, when I first got out of school,

I was the shipping manager for a company for a short period of time. Did that go well? And as you can see now, I'm a comedian. So that will show you how well it went. now I'm a comedian. So that'll show you how well it went. But my job was to track our merchandise from Hong Kong to FOP Hong Kong to here in the States, wherever the destination was. What I'm seeing here is as a coach, you can actually use this to see where your players are and how effective they are on the field.

Like, this might even be something where a coach says, you know what, we need to move this guy. Like, the way this guy moves, he'd be better in this other position. Am I thinking too much into this? No, you're not. That's exactly what it's able to do. And you can see, the nice thing about having this data is you really can see the effectiveness of these players and you can say, gosh, I think by the way, we play you on the right. But when I look back at your stats, you're better on the left. You're much more effective. So let's put you there. Or you're better in this position over that position. Or by the way, if you practiced a little bit less,

you'd have more energy on game day, which would be great. Where else can you go with your technology to assist? And can you bring in other technologies? So for instance, you talk about tracking speed, right? And if we were able to take that and then bring in the bio data of that particular player, right, we might know that, hey, you know what? This guy, he just ran 45 yards on one play. He needs to actually sit out for a play based on his heart rate, based on this, that, and the other. Are you headed towards that state in your technology where you're able to bring in bio data and then combine the two and give real-time in-game feedback? Or is that a goal? Or am I crazy? No, actually, it's here now. Oh, Jill, tell me more. Yeah, in practice, so not in game, biodata is not used in game, but in practice, we do use biodata.

So in our chip, we also have an accelerometer. And so there's information there around accelerometry. And so there's information there around accelerometry. But things like heart rate, hydration, those things are generally Bluetooth enabled, and our chip reads Bluetooth. And so we gather that information off the body and send it back to the same system. to the same system, and right on the side of the practice field, using surface tablets, coaches, trainers can get all that information, heart rate, speed, distance. One of the funny things in practice is are they practicing or are they just talking to us?

Don't be giving away too many secrets about the players. You're also big brother. It's just like, all right, Johnson, you're mailing it in right here. We got the technology. There's nowhere to hide. Yeah. You can actually tell whether or not a guy is making the kind of effort that he's supposed to make based by the marriage of the bio data and the tracking, right? That's exactly right. So you can come up with what we would call an effort or an exertion number,

and it tells you how are you doing based on your best day of practice, your best day of game day, and then, you know, where do you fit this time of the season in terms of hydration. Jill, how long before you can measure emotional states? Like my wife just left me i lost my kitten the safety and the cornerback are ganging up on me and i'm not feeling too clever i'm being bullied yeah how long before you're able to tap that particular reservoir and bring the data out of there i honestly think that we're far away. However, it's one of the things that you can see so clearly in the data. We also did this year the college championship game. Yes. And when you look

at that game, it is amazing the will that comes out of those kids that run farther and faster than they should in the fourth quarter than any statistic would say they would be able to, yet they're doing it. So there is a psychological element to the tracking. There really is. I don't know how to capture the meaning of it, but it's amazing to watch. Ah, man, this whole thing is just super fascinating. Isn't it? Yeah. Well, we, this whole thing is just super fascinating.

Well, you know, we're out of time for the segment. Thank you so much. I mean, you are beyond the cutting edge right now, and one really quick last question. Are you planning to take this technology into other sports? Because I can see the applications in basketball and even baseball as

well. Are you guys looking to do something with the NBA and the Major League Baseball? We are looking to do things with all kinds of leagues and in tests with many of them now. Awesome. Well, Jill, the very best of luck, and thank you for sharing your time with us. It's been a real eye-opener for not just Chuck and myself, but all of our listeners. Thank you.

You are welcome. All right. Let's take a break. Yeah. Man. Man, that's, you know what? Yeah. That thing does everything.

Yeah, it's pretty cool. Isn't it great? Right, we're going to take a break. We're going from the reality of technology that does everything on the field and then probably a little bit more to the virtual reality that comes with training and the developments therein. So if you want to know what's really cutting edge in virtual reality and NFL training,

stick around. We're back very, very shortly. Welcome back. I'm Gary O'Reilly. And I'm Chuck Nice. And this is Playing With Science. And today we're exploring how new technology is transforming the world of football. We're also featuring clips from an interview Neil deGrasse Tyson did with New York Jets quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Yes. Let's check out our next clip. Something cool with technology that they're doing too, virtual reality, which is just a different way for us to see the game. For us, a lot of times it's in practice right now, but guys maybe that aren't getting the reps on the field, they can put on the headset and kind of go through a play and potentially that helps speed up development for some of the younger guys.

Interesting. So they can put themselves on the field even though they're not on the field. Yeah, exactly. And it's great because you can hit play just like you're watching a show on Netflix or something and look around and essentially feel like you're in the play. You can hit pause and look behind you, look up, look down at your shoes.

It's pretty neat. Wouldn't that be cool if you can do that in real life yes it would you're the quarterback pause okay i got this i feel that at home a lot of the time too with kids and the chaos it would be great to pause you see an nfl quarterback embracing new technology yeah and the whole thing about playing with science is to bring you closer to that tech. So joining us by video to bring his insight into everything that's become cutting edge is Derek Bell, CEO and co-founder of Striver, the guys behind the virtual reality technology and training. Welcome, Derek. How are you, buddy? Thanks, guys. Doing well. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. First question. Can you please give us a very brief primer on virtual reality for people living under a rock like myself versus augmented reality?

Sure. So virtual reality, you know, at its simplest definition is really the what we call the illusion of non-mediation. That sounds a little complicated. Basically, immersion. So, complete and total immersion, the idea that your mind is being taken to another place while your body is standing in a room in California, for example. So, that's basically VR. AR is exactly how it sounds. It's a tool to augment your daily life, the real world. You know, a car has had augmented reality for a long time with heads up displays on the windshield. You know, people are hoping long term that you can put on a pair of glasses and be shown all the safety features in a factory while you're walking around. So, you know, basically VR,

complete and total immersion, AR, augmenting the real world. Yeah. And the thing about VR that for anybody who's played a virtual reality game, if you use like HTC or any of these very advanced virtual reality games, your brain doesn't know the difference. Like when you're being attacked by zombies, you feel like fear for your life. You're like, I'm about to die from these zombies. So, you know, is, is that kind of the premise behind what you do when you're putting players in VR? Yeah. I mean, if it's done correctly, that is the reaction that people should have. You know, obviously we're not creating first person shooters or zombie games, uh, striver, but yeah, I mean, we, that's one of the reasons that we were so successful right out

of the gate in 2015 is because people put on the headset and they said, wow, this is football. Uh, this is not a video game. This is not cheesy. This is not stupid. Uh, they got it right away. And I think, you know, as far as the early adopters are concerned, it was a no brainer. Yeah. Now it's part of that because you were a player. I mean, you know, as far as the early adopters are concerned, it was a no brainer. Yeah. Now, it's part of that because you were a player. I mean, you were a player. You're a coach. And now you are the progenitor of this particular usage of this technology. How did that actually factor into you making what you've made? So I appreciate the compliment to call me a player.

I was a place kicker and not a lot of people think place kickers are football players. So I appreciate the compliment to call me a player. I was a place kicker, and not a lot of people think place kickers are football players. So I appreciate that. Eric, you're on the team. That's enough. Yeah. And let me tell you something. It's more than what most people can do. You know what I do?

I sit my fat ass on a couch, and I watch guys like you place kick. Thank you. But, yes, that did help tremendously. Thank you. But yes, that did help tremendously. The fact that I did play for five years, more importantly, coached at the time when we were moving this thing through collegiate NFL buildings. Trent Edwards, who played in the NFL for six years and was a teammate of mine at Stanford, was right by my side. The fact that football people were coming in and showing a tech product was a big deal. And we had a lot of coaches tell us in the room after we were done, hey, thank you for actually knowing how our world works, because we see a lot of tech every day and nobody can communicate what it actually means and how it will actually fit in. So that was a huge factor in our success early on.

So without giving away all of your secrets, what is the tech behind Stryver? So without giving away all of your secrets, what is the tech behind Stryver? Yeah. So, I mean, you know, at our core, we use real video to create a virtual environment for players, for athletes. And, you know, that comes that has its positives and negatives. The positives are it's real. It looks real. It sounds real. It feels real. It's not a goofy video game character kind of, you know, choppy, choppily running across the screen. There is science behind this coming out of Stanford where I'm I'm watching somebody in a virtual environment. And if they don't move like a real person, my brain is going to tune out. So the fact that we can give you a fairly accurate 360 degree, fully immersive view of what you actually see on the field, real sounds, real movements, real speed.

That's a big deal. And that's really cool. The negatives are right now, honestly, like football, American football is probably the best sport. We have a few teams that we're working with in the NBA. There's a few kind of isolated use cases in basketball. Baseball will get there eventually when the clarity improves on the headset. But for now, soccer, hockey, certain elements of basketball where there's a lot of fluidity and movement, probably not good for VR because it makes people sick. American football is the best use case because everybody starts from a static position. They read, they react, and they go. And the way that we do it, that's the best use case today. And we'll kind of see where this goes long termterm. Okay. Let's fold it back onto you. You're a place kicker.

Would it have benefited you, the VR training, or is it just for one particular position only? So it would have absolutely benefited me because I had a strong leg and a weak mind. So we actually did a test two years ago with the Stanford kicker who I coached when he was a backup for a couple years and he was three for six lifetime coming in to 20 the 2015 season we built him this little visualization tool where he could watch himself make kicks over and over and over again yeah he went 18 out of 20 in 2015 he was all conference I think he went 22 of 27 this past year. He just set the all-time field goal accuracy record in Stanford history. Wow. It absolutely can work from a visualization

standpoint. He's not the only kicker that's been using our stuff in that way. That's amazing. We're doing this for quarterbacks. We're doing it for linebackers. We're doing it for safeties. Hey, let's talk about quarterbacks for a second. Yeah. Okay. Because when you think about the NFL, right now with the speed of linebackers and the blitzing packages that these coaches are putting into the games, I mean, it's incredible how quickly a play unfolds. And you're looking at guys needing to get rid of the ball in about two seconds, 2.2 seconds. Like, those are the guys that really do well, okay? Unless you're Aaron Rodgers.

Unless you're, well, even Aaron Rodgers has a pretty quick release. I mean, he can make some time with his feet. Yeah. So, are you able to create different scenarios and then measure, like, the improvement in a player's performance. So you would give like you would go from a three second play and now let's make it so that it's now a two second play. And let's see how you are doing or how you're progressing. Are you able to kind of hold a player's hand and move them along the process? Yeah. So, you know, a lot of what we do is honestly

dependent on how much time a coach and a player want to put into this. There are some teams we're working with that are doing very surface level, easy things that kind of integrate right into their routine. They don't have to change much. Other teams are really going all in on this. And we actually just unveiled an assessment tool to do what you're talking about. Hey, if you need to make a decision in 0.8 of a second, which happens a lot against the Blitz, especially, we want to know if you know it in 0.8 of a second. We want to know if you click that button while you're in the virtual environment fast enough. We want to see where your head's moving and make sure that you're actually looking in the right spot. So this can

be a very, very powerful assessment tool. We are working on, you know, how do we put this in the hands of the teams even more so they don't have to tell us a hundred different things they want and we do it and there's a long turnaround time. We're building the tools so they can do a lot of this on their own, you know, as an off-season tool when I can't be on the field getting reps, as an in-season tool when I'm a backup and I don't get reps, uh, really, really phenomenal use cases across the board. Do you see this as a cognitive skill enhancer as well as the, the ability to read patterns, the pattern recognition side of it? Oh, sure. Yeah. And I think the, you know, the, the biggest thing as to why VR works is I don't have to get 21 other guys to go out on the field to get that rep.

And I can get it 100 times instead of two. I don't know how many players have actually done one play 100 times. But we look at all the data and we have some NFL quarterbacks that we've asked them, hey, why did you watch that play 16 times? And they say, well, I only got it once in practice. And I know he's going to call it in the game. So that is why VR can be effective. And it's all about what people want to put into it. If the goal is to memorize a route, if the goal is to memorize a coverage, they do it.

If the goal is just to use this as that last little bit of mental confidence going into the game, they do it. So everybody uses this in a different way. It's been pretty neat to see. From my point of view, looking at it technically, the 360 degree cameras, you kind of had them in the right place. You can't bring them into a game situation or can you, or are you working on that already? Can you or are you working on that already? Yeah. So, you know, we, in a sense, we've kind of hit a wall a little bit with where we can take this thing.

We, you know, we've come up with a lot of different ways for content capture. You guys may have seen some of the stuff that Intel's been doing in games with their company replay technologies that they acquired where you can rotate and get different angles. So that's the future for sure. The bulk of what we've done to date has been in practice, and it's been kind of how much time do players and coaches want to dedicate to this. Long term, it's probably two or three years away from being VR ready, something like that. And we're very close with Intel in that regard. It's definitely coming down the pipe.

Hey, you know, I saw that you tweeted out to Clemson congratulating them on a national championship. Did you work with those guys or do you just know people there? Clemson was our second college team that jumped on two years ago. And without going into too much detail, I will tell you that they use the heck out of it. And they use it in many different ways. And again, back to what you guys asked before about being a former player and kind of understanding that world. Right. We're not going to say VR is the reason that they just went to back to back. OK, Derek, Derek, Derek, Derek, bro, got to stop you right there.

You're the CEO of a company. OK, all right. I don't want to hear that talk anymore. Here's the deal. The reason why they won is because of VR. All right. That's right. Stryver won the championship. As a matter of fact, they call it the Clemson Stryver Championship. That's the way you got to do this. I'm going to say it for you, man. I just found your new poster boy. Yeah, I appreciate that. I appreciate that. But the teams appreciate when we don't say stuff like that. I'm sure. That's why I say it for you, bro. Hey, this is just fascinating stuff. Congratulations, man, on taking nascent technology

and then seeing it through to a place now where it looks as though it's going to become an integral part of what we know as America's greatest pastime. It's not baseball. It is football. And we all know that. And congratulations, man. Job well done. Thank you, guys. I appreciate it. Happy to come on anytime. Derek, thank you. Derek Belch there from Stryver, the man behind the VR training technology that is sweeping through football. Up next, well, we'll bring you the coach's perspective on playing with science. Stick around.

Welcome back. I'm Gary O'Reilly. And I'm Chuck Nice. And this is Playing With Science. And today we are talking about new tech and how it is revolutionizing the world of football. We've spoken already to the man behind the technology, Derek Belch. Let's now get a man who is adopting this technology and using it to his advantage. And joining us now is Buddy Teevens, head coach of football at Dartmouth College. Welcome to the show, coach.

Good to be here, guys. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure, Coach T. So how come you got to embrace this technology at Dartmouth? Well, interesting. It's all who you know. And Derek Belch was a recruit for me when I was the head coach at Stanford. He and Trent Edwards have put the company together.

And I learned about it and I'm kind of fascinated by the technological advances made in everyday life and how are they adaptable to football. Gave him a call and said, look, I can't pay what you guys are paying. He says, coach, maybe we can help you out. And they've been absolutely phenomenal. The system itself, Stryver, has helped our quarterbacks immensely, our linebackers, our middle players, safeties, and also our running backs and interior linemen. Wow. And what you just said is super fascinating, and there's a bunch to unpack there. If you could, just in a cursory fashion, kind of break down from a coach's standpoint, the players positions that you just mentioned and the different benefits of this type of technology. What does it bring to it? So we really got into a lot of it.

We just talked to Derek. We got into a lot of the quarterback. So barring the quarterback, why don't we start with like the safety, which which I'm really interested to see how a position like that might benefit. The safety is basically the quarterback on the defensive side of the football. So he's responsible for any number of calls, dispersion of an offensive formation, personnel groupings. And it's hard to get an awful lot of snaps in a practice situation. And it's hard to get an awful lot of snaps in a practice situation. But we can multiply it exponentially by sending it back to the dorm room, having it on a computer in essentially real time. And a guy can practice making calls, making adjustments. He can see deployment of the offensive players. He can see blocking schemes and can practice his calls.

And we found that hugely successful. I mentioned the quarterbacks. We do that extensively. We've had great success with our safeties and also our linebackers. Yeah, now the linebackers make sense along with the safeties. But did I hear you say interior linemen? Because how would the VR work with something like that? Well, you look at a stance.

How does an offensive lineman, there's cues that we try to identify. Is he heavy in his hand? Is he back on his heels? Is he a little bit wider in his stance? Are his shoulders a little bit more erect? able to point it out as a coach say hey look at this look at his hands man the knuckles are white he's coming forward hey look at there's no color in his hands man he's leaning back you know small things like that may seem insignificant but if a guy can get just a fraction of an edge or an opportunity to exploit a weakness defensively from a defensive standpoint it's going to be beneficial to our team so the blocking schemes, back block by an offensive center. If your three technique or tackle sees that coming or can understand exactly what's happening and then repeatedly view it and watch how the block is unfolding, he's better prepared to defend himself against it.

Coach, from your personal point of view, how have you accommodated the use of big data to the benefit of your college, your coaches, and your players? Well, we try to use as much as we can. We've got basically a statistical breakdown on how, you know, how you should call a game. clock usage, down and distance situations, when should you go for it on a fourth down situation, when you might use your punter and kicker. And it's all kind of an exploratory opportunity for us, but it's been awesome. Just to make you think a little bit more statistically, what are the odds of us going on the plus 40-yard line on a fourth and three

as opposed to punting and trying to keep the ball down inside? And, you know, data and data collection and understanding data is huge. I think a lot of guys in our profession maybe are not as willing to kind of step into that. And my thought is guys are a lot smarter than me figuring this stuff out, so let's try to use some of that knowledge and technical preparation to call a better game and prepare my guys a little bit more productively. So has the data that you've been provided changed your approach as a coach to the game? Yes, it has. Specifically, when should we go for it in a fourth down situation?

I've become much more aggressive in different field zones. There's an awareness in terms of clock management and timeouts when you may want to consider using a timeout or letting the clock run, stopping the clock and so forth with a kill call from the quarterback. Just little subtleties, but if you look nationwide, different games and can glean information from some of those different games and compile it and then review it, there's some consistencies across the board or some patterns that develop. And if I become more aware of the patterns, should that opportunity or situation arise, I'll reflect back on it and think, you know, I saw so-and-so do it and I'm going to do something a little bit different. Or that timeout, I'm not going to use that timeout right now. I'm going to save it. So, yeah, it makes you think more deeply as a coach, and I think it's a tremendous opportunity for a lot of folks to try to expand their knowledge of the game and really the comfort

level with situations that arise during the course of a game. So, let me ask you, when you think about big data and what you were talking about, recognizing patterns and such, it kind of reminds me of like a blackjack player sitting at a table. And there's one guy who uses like a basic strategy

or he uses like, we know the odds of how many decks in a shoe and when I get a certain hand, this is how I should play it. As opposed to a guy who says, shoe and when I get a certain hand, this is how I should play it. As opposed to a guy who says, you know, I got a hunch, I got a hunch the dealer has a six under there, I'm going to hit it, right? So what do you, do you see big data moving, coaching into a more scientific position as opposed to a more player personnel gut type position?

Yeah, I really think so. The card counter mindset gives you an advantage to some extent, but the nature of the game, you go on a hunch as well. And the group that we use in terms of analytics, we take a look and they'll give me a report back each week and say, in this situation, we would have recommended X, but you chose Y. In this situation, Y worked for you. And it may be, hey, my kicker had a bad week in practice. And he's a 35 plus guy, but man, he just wasn't hitting it. So I opted to punt. And my kicker hit a nice punt, knocked it back on the two-yard line. We come out looking good.

But there's a rationale behind it, and I think it will come down to how do you feel. And you've got more immediate information. You feel like your offensive line is in sync and in rhythm and it's fourth and one, and you think you can run the ISO and pick up that yard, well, then you're going to go with it. But quite often, it's been fairly close in terms of being in sync. But with analytics, it's pushed me into the more aggressive mode. And what I've heard Army really modified their approach to the game, specifically because the data derived from the company. So the days of the conservative coach are finished? Yeah, no, I don't think so.

You know, we've got some of the outliers that we'll just kind of run it up and take a look. I guess I like to think of myself maybe a little more progressive in thought. It's exciting. Well, it's interesting because I think that's where the whole world is going. Absolutely. And football is a conservative sport and conservative approach is generally taken. And I think there's an opportunity for guys to kind of take a look. And I don't want to say take a risk.

I think it's calculated. And if it's beneficial to our program and our players, everybody looks good. Hey, let me ask you about safety. Always a concern when you're talking about football. It's a very physical contact sport. Is there any way that big data is leading to improved player safety? Well, we employ sensors in all of our helmets. When we get a read, we've got a computer on the sideline,

which will register contact points on a helmet in magnitude, G-forces essentially. And anything above a 25, that's significant, and we'll be aware of that. So we'll have a trainer just kind of point out if we had a big hit. Now I'm kind of maybe a different guy to ask about this. We don't tackle. I haven't been tackling for the last six years in practice. Now before you go any further, Coach, because what you just said is absolutely fascinating. You got to tell us about MVP, which is your thing, the mobile virtual player. When you say you don't tackle,

can you please explain to our listeners what you mean by that and what MVP is? Certainly. Six years ago, I just, with all the concussive concerns nationwide, I'd done a little bit of research and I opted not to tackle our own players in practice. So we never make a tackle on another Dartmouth player in spring practice, in preseason practice, or during the course of the season. And what we do tackle are inanimate objects. What was available were stationary pads, and we'd use those in different drills. And I had an idea of mobilizing one of these static pads. And a good friend of mine from the engineering department, Thayer School of Engineering is outstanding in terms of development and research and whatnot. John Currier was a classmate of mine here at Dartmouth. I said, hey, can you make this thing move? And we went into a year-long study. A graduate school was involved at great

length. And we came up with MVP, mobile virtual player. And essentially, it mimics the movement of a football player. And specifically on defense, we can tackle it in innumerable times. specifically on defense, we can tackle it in innumerable times. And though we stopped tackling live people, and what I should say, we dropped our concussive head injury by roughly 80%. Wow. Peripheral injuries, shoulders, arms, backs, necks, and so forth, that dropped as well. But our missed tackles in ballgames dropped 50%.

Whoa. So we hit each other less. Hit each other less, but tackled better. So less wear and tear on the player and increased efficiency on game day at that. Exactly right. That's amazing. Now, one question. Could you please give this technology to the Philadelphia Eagles?

Nah. Nah. We do. We have eight NFL teams have put it on board. Oh, yeah? The Steelers specifically have been outstanding with it, really like what they've seen. The Falcons had it down with them, the Ravens, San Francisco 49ers, Notre Dame had it at the college level. So it's in its infancy, but there's a lot of positive that's coming back.

Essentially, you can full speed tackle. It's 180 pounds, about six feet tall, runs four eight four nine forty you can tackle it non-stop you can cut block it things that you don't want to do against your own players right sacking a quarterback there's not a team in the country in practice that has a defensive lineman actually tackle someone the risk of injury to the quarterback. Right. But we can tackle this dummy, have them simulate a quarterback situation, move and make a tackle. So we've become more proficient through tackling more frequently. I tell people we probably tackle more than anyone in the country in practice, but we just don't tackle each other.

Now, has the inanimate tackling object actually ever broken a tackle and made somebody look stupid during practice? We do have a bloopers reel, guys. Oh, I bet you do, Coach. Because that's got to be even more incentive to your players to tackle well. It's just like, yo, man, the tackling dummy just broke away. You don't want to be on that holiday tape. You don't want to be on that holiday tape. You don't want to be on that tape. There's no one to be on that one.

That is crazy. Plus, Coach, the great thing about it is it never talks back. No, it takes instructions. It never gets tired. And I should say, the rugby world, our rugby team has been quite successful in the sevens and so forth. Gavin Hickey has put that to use at length. And great interest from the rugby world who suffers from the same concerns or has the same concerns.

For sure they will do. Right. Right. So let's, I believe we have a clip. Yes. You know, one of the things we're always interested here on the show is, you know, from a coach's standpoint, you know, the human element of coaching, you know, because a coach's standpoint, you know, the human element of coaching, you

know, because you guys really have a tough job. The interaction between coach and player and the element they're in. Right, yeah, because you guys have a tough job because you're not only responsible for the team itself and whether you win or lose, ultimately that rests on your shoulders, but then you're also responsible for players' individual performances, which has got to be a real pain in the ass. Backside. Oh, I'm sorry.

Did I say it? I'm sorry. Backside. It's college after all. Backside. But we've got a great clip of Neil deGrasse Tyson talking to quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick, talking about game momentum and the human element. We want you to take a listen to this and give us your reaction. Is momentum real in terms of, oh, we got a good lead at the beginning.

We're at home. This is momentum we can take to win the game. Is that real or are you detached from that? And every play is a fresh encounter for you. I think momentum is real and it can be play to play. It can be quarter to quarter. It can be game to game. But there's there's just a you try to get over and put behind you, but a team that is 10-0 versus a team that is 0-10 is going to have a much more positive outlook going into a game, and it affects the way that you play. And so I think momentum will always be a part of the game because of just the human element.

Going back to the data that you're able to accumulate through a whole variety of technology now, has that taken out the element of momentum? Are you able to reduce the odds more in your favor with more information? No, I think I agree with Ryan that the human element will always be present. And it's such an emotional game and enthusiasm and energy is required. But I like to think some of the data can help elevate that level. You get on a roll, you make a fourth down, a big critical fourth down play, you go for it and deepen your own territory and you make it energizes guys. They start believing, they start flying around.

So I think the two can go hand in hand. Coach Bell with us. We have another clip with Neil deGrasse Tyson talking to Ryan Fitzpatrick. Here it comes. I only read this recently and that coaches do not go for first down on fourth down. Don't go for first down as much as they should because of course sometimes you're not going to make it but the times you do some fraction of those go on to score you can do that statistically right so but it's against the coach's feeling that that's the case if you read the data and you have your background in math and statistics and and analysis in ways that others don't and the whole league

recognize you as one of the top five smart people. Can you walk up to the coach and say, Coach, no, no, I've read the math on this. Your hunch is wrong. I'm going to do the play the way the statistics takes it. Is that a real conversation that can happen? It'd probably be a very one-sided conversation. I don't know if it would even be met with a response.

But going back to what we were just talking about, the momentum. So fourth down in a football game, if you go for it, is a very huge potential momentum swing. If you get it, it's great for you. If you don't get it, then all of a sudden it swings the other way. And so I think more so than just, you know, the data, the statistics, the probabilities, there's probably a little bit more to it. And maybe that's that gut instinct or feeling that a coach has. You know, you spoke to that a little earlier, coach, about those fourth down situations and how you use big data. But is there anything specific that you'd like to add to that in terms of what your game day decisions will be and how they relate to the data that you're being given in real time?

No, I'll prepare just kind of the analytic end of it. I'll evaluate my team. What do I think we can do against an opponent and then adjust as time goes on. Hey, we think we're more physical and we're getting whipped today. The play selection may change or the call may change. We're not on and we're not executing the way that we need to. And I think that's the human element that can never be replaced. I don't think you can go absolutely by the book, but I think the book can help you on occasion. And I think the most successful coaches will have that combination. You know the data. You know the stats. You're prepared mentally going into a ballgame.

Then you read your players. You read the weather. You read the momentum and the energy, and you make a decision based on that. So what you're saying basically is we're never going to have an artificial intelligence head coach of a football game, of a football team. That just can't happen. You have job security. I mean, he said, really? Or him all fooled, one of the two.

There you go. Because coaching the end of laptop never won a game. Am I right? Exactly right. There you go. Coach T-Mans, it's been an absolute honor, sir. Thank you and the best of luck to you and yours at Dartmouth College. Thanks so much, Coach.

Yeah, that's fabulous. Thank you for having me. Oh, you are welcome. Please come back. Please come back and talk to us. Okay, so that's our little insight into technology and football. Chuck? Oh, my God.

Fascinating stuff, man. Yeah. Like, super cool. Like, now, you know, here's the thing. I would feel a little better about being on the sideline because I could never never be on the field but I think I could actually help a team win like you know without pom-poms which is what I normally do it's gonna take a while for me to get rid of that image uh I'm Gary O'Reilly I showed some pom-poms he's the guy with the pom-poms you know you want it and this has been playing with science and before we go remember a laptop never won a game of football or will it never know