StarTalk Radio - #ICYMI - NBA – Evolution of the Game, with Julius Erving, Rasheed Wallace, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Episode Date: May 3, 2018

In case you missed this episode on the Playing with Science channel… Investigate the evolution of the NBA with Gary O’Reilly and Chuck Nice in the first of our two part mini-series featuring NBA greats Julius “Dr. J” Erving, Rasheed Wallace, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and our own Neil deGrasse Tyson. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to new episodes ad-free and a whole week early.

I'm Gary O'Reilly and I'm Chuck Knight and this of course is playing with science today we literally have a stellar cast of guests starting with Julius Irving aka J, accompanied by none other than NBA legend Rashid Wallace. And of course, we must thank the good people of Nike and Converse, who allowed unparalleled access to their athletes during the Art of Champions event, so we could bring you what is truly a unique show. Yes, and rounding out our galaxy of superstars, our supernovas, we're going to have Neil deGrasse Tyson and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, the leading all-time scorer of the NBA, as they sit down and talk about the indefensible shot, the skyhook.

Oh, yeah, you're not going to want to miss that. This will also be a show where you might find you are handed not just the keys to success in the NBA playoffs, but in life itself. Oh yes, stay tuned for that one. You're going to miss that. And guess what? This is only the first of a two-part miniseries featuring not just NBA superstars, but also the tech on and within your favorite basketball shoes. Yes. And I'm sure you've got them. And the cool thing is that, so we're bringing you this show, and it's going to be a little bit different because this is like our first clip show.

Yeah. Because we were let out. We were let out of the studio. We were let out of the studio, and we went to Nike's Art of the Champion. It was an event where they debuted 16 different shoes for the playoffs, for the 2018 NBA playoffs. For all of our listeners out there who are thinking this show is sponsored by Nike and or Converse, it is not. The Art of Champion was an opportunity for us to go and grab some time with NBA legends and of course for Chuck to have an undiluted unapologetic Philly loving. That's right so that's why we really did it forget Nike we actually did it so I could meet

Dr. J because you know I mean aside from the restraining order. Yes of course. Apart from meeting those NBA legends icon superstar, superstars, in the case of Dr. J, I mean, he's in everyone's conversation for one of the best ever. Yeah. We got to get down into the tech because there's a whole range from old school shoes up into the now. And then with John Garner from Converse, who's one of their global product managers, gives us a little sneak peek into what could well be coming up but that show too. Don't get carried away because this show is all

about the legends. But the game has changed so much because of the tech. Yeah. But the cool thing is we got to talk to the people who made the game what it is and I guess what are we starting with? A clip from Dr. J? Yeah. Gotta go with the big guy. Julius Irving. Dr. J. It's an undiluted Philly love-in,

and we make no apologies. Roll the clip. Before we begin, let me just say, ladies and gentlemen, I'm from Philadelphia. This man right here is royalty, not just in the city of Philadelphia, not just in the game of basketball, but as a gentleman among gentlemen, Dr. J is just the cream of the crop. Ladies and gentlemen, Dr. J. All right. Appreciate that tribute.

Oh, without a doubt, man. Without a doubt. Well deserved and well earned. I know you're a humble guy, but I still got to say this. So you are the Michael Jackson of basketball, okay? Michael Jackson. You are the Michael Jackson of basketball. When you listen to music today, I don't care if it's Chris Brown or Bruno Mars or Justin Timberlake, you hear Michael Jackson.

Yeah. When you look at these guys— He was a great influence. He was an influence. That's when James Brown— Right, that's right. So when you look at these guys' games today, the young guys that are on the court today, there is no Michael Jordan without Dr. J.

There is no LeBron James without Michael Jordan. Do you see your influence on the game, honestly? Well, I do, yeah, particularly in a transition game. And 80% of the game is transition. So guys having the confidence to come in transition and attack the basket. I mean, obviously, I see the whole ABA associated with today's game, with the three-point shot being what it is since it was invented over there. That's right.

You know, I never ran down the court and then ran to the three-point line. Whatever, it was always trying to, you know, be first to the hoop and getting there before the defense sets up. If not, then we'd evolve into whatever we were going to do next, set offense. But I see it. When I watch Kawhi Leonard play, I see it. Kevin Durant, to a degree, when he's attacking the basket,

can never shoot like him. And a handful of guys who just have that creativity. See, what was interesting for me is you go straight to a musical reference and mix it all in with sport. And Dr. J goes, yeah, yeah, I get it. I love it. But you see, there was no arrogance. No, it was matter of fact.

Yeah, he knew what he meant to the game and how he's left his footprint. Absolutely, yeah. And I love the fact that he said Kevin Durant because a lot of people don't, you know, when they look at Dr. J's game, they immediately think Michael Jordan. You know, of course, Michael Jordan was influenced by Dr. J. But I love the fact that he said Kevin Durant, the way he attacks the basket. And at the time, Dr. J was without a doubt the most exciting basketball player in the league. I mean, there was nobody who was doing the kind of stuff that he was doing. And then you look at, you know, you look at the Sixers today, which, you know, by the way, of course.

You will. Yes, I will. But you have a young guy by the name of Ben Simmons who kind of moves and has a court awareness and presence like Dr. J. But I have to say that I was completely, I was fanboying out when. Yeah, why not? Yeah. No, this is a guy who was, when I was a kid watching basketball, he was the guy. Yeah.

You know, and then I'm standing here. And he's in your town. And he's in my town. And he was like the best basketball player ever was the guy. Yeah. You know, and then I'm standing here. And he's in your town. And he's in my town, and he was like the best basketball player ever at the time. And you're standing there, and you're like, oh, man, I'm standing there. I felt like I was 12, to be honest. You know, I kind of felt like,

I'm surprised that my voice wasn't like this. Oh, my God, I'm talking to Dr. J. Hi, Dr. J. You know, they always say, never meet your heroes. Yeah. But I got a feeling watching you coming away from that interview and going, do you know what? It was good he did. Yeah.

Because he was everything that you wanted to be and more. You know, straight up. And, you know, they say don't meet your heroes because a lot of times you'll just be disappointed, you know, because people are people. But Dr. J is not a person. He is a god. That's right. A basketball god. Okay. Enough out of me person. He is a god. That's right. A basketball god. Okay?

Enough out of me on that. What I loved was he said, I never ran down the court and stopped at the three-point line. I went all the way. I went all the way to the hoop, and that was my thing. And it wasn't a case of he just wanted to make a point. He just got a real excitement off of thumping that ball through the rim. Absolutely, man. You know, penetration was his game and improvisation. So those two things together, he really changed the game, you know? Well, let's talk to Dr. J again. I mean, you had a follow-up question, this time about the three-pointer. Let's check it out.

When you look at the way the three-pointer has changed the game today when you see it and you're right you never ran down and stopped in the aba and took a three and i think that penetration led to a lot of improvisation with you do you see a greater proliferation of that in the game or a lessening of that well i, I see the guys having to have that as part of their package. You have to have the ability to get your own shot. Nobody's going to just set you up all day. I mean, well, Philly kind of sets up J.J. Redick all day, but he still has times where, you know, he gets the ball,

he's got to make a move to get his shot off or to continue to play. ball he's got to make a move uh to get his shot off or to continue to play so so there's no such thing as you know the 100 role player yeah i mean everybody has to have some skill development and and in some sort of uh physical and mental toughness to get somebody off you yeah to get somebody off you see what he's what he's saying there is saying there is kind of a sportsman's code. You've got to learn to burn your opponent. Right. You've got to learn whatever move it is to shake that man off. Now, you may shake him off the first time, but he's read that.

So you come with the same package. So now he's hip to your game. Oh, baby. How's that work in soccer? Same thing. Well, football, soccer. You're football the principles are the same because you now you're now playing this sort of pitcher batsman one-on-one you've got it it's that it's that shootout scenario where right okay you think

you got me let's see think again yeah gone this way that way and that's where some players are one-handed very predictable predictable. And then the other players work on the fact that you think they're one-handed and very predictable. Goodbye. Right. Yeah. So, you know, the funny thing is that, you know, what he talked about sometimes Philly might set up JJ Reddit. But I say throughout the NBA right now, teams are running plays specifically to get somebody to shoot a three, you know, and I see it all the time. Even guys like James Harden at Houston, he's, you know, this guy is one of the, I think he's the MVP for this year,

but he is definitely one of the most dangerous players in the paint, one of the most dangerous players when it comes to being in an open court and shaking somebody for penetration. But you'll see them run plays to get them out back to the three-point line, and he'll drain a three with no problem. I mean, I love it, by the way. So the thing is, I'll tell you something interesting. A lot of football coaches are big basketball fans

because there's replication of a basketball defense in a tight area with little bits of movement. And what will happen is they'll try and overload, distort, create a break. They'll set something up for maybe the third man to come in and complete. Oh, cool. So this same thing happens in football as it does on the court. And football coaches are very in tune with elements like that that they see replicating their game.

So it's no surprise to see that sort of thing setting itself up. Just boom, boom, boom. It might be the fifth pass. It might be the sixth. Or it might be the third pass. But it's done very, very tightly and with intent. Yeah. Definitely.

And you see a lot more. It kind of looks like basketball today, when you look at the way the three-point has changed the game. I think it's changed the game in that teams look more like the Globetrotters now than ever before. There's a lot of passing going on. And you see guys, like the reason why they're moving the ball around so much is because they want somebody to be open and try and shoot a three. It works. And then all of a sudden you'll find it becomes pattern recognition. And I will have a room, a darkened room. So it was a darkened room full of analysts. And they'll sit there and they'll say, once you see pass one, two, you know where three, four, five is going to

go because all of the pattern recognition they have seen over and over and over again when they analyze opponents. So what happens then is you know. So you're starting to set yourself up to break that down. And then they'll come away from three points. And maybe we'll go back to the Dr. J, I'm taking it to the hoop. Right. And it's an evolution within the sport, a natural progression.

You do one thing, we come and adapt. We won't just survive, we'll then eat you. And what you're saying right there just makes, for me, makes the game so much more exciting because it brings an unpredictability to the game that, you know, when you're watching as a fan, it gives you that, what I call that, that's an actual technical term that I coined. I'm not sure I've ever had that. It's a technical sports term.

It's called the ow factor. And that's what happens when you watch a play that's so good. There are no words. All you can do is go ow. I'm not sure where that sound comes from in my body. I'm not sure I want to know. Anyway, right, let's get back to the NBA icon, shall we? And this time, yeah, big guy, Rashid Wallace. Another Philly dude. Another Philly dude, can't escape them. Right, let's check this out and see what the big man had to say. Oh,

before we do, before we do, to do this interview, Chuck had to stand on a wooden block that was two feet tall. Yes, he did. Yeah, and I don't think I was taller than him once I did that. Just. Yeah, maybe just. Just. We are here with Rasheed Wallace, okay? If you don't know him, you don't know basketball. That's all there is to it.

One of the most dominating big men in the sport. That's all there is to it. Appreciate it. Stretch forward. Troublemaker, apparently. Yeah, well. Some would say. Some would say.

No, that's not. First of of all he's not a troublemaker He's just from Philly Am I right? Plain and simple We actually bring sports and science together on our show And you know a lot of times First of all Gary Rashid says something

That Kareem said That we asked him about Remember about the fact that nobody does the sky hook. No. Nobody. Most dominant shot ever in basketball, and I know that much. Yes, it's definitely the most dominant

and unstoppable shot for the last 50 years in basketball. And you know what he said? It's because it's ugly. That's what Kareem said. It's an ugly shot. Right. So you don't know what's coming. It's a long shoot. But it's effective. That's the thing. It's effective. Seeem said It's an ugly shot So you don't know what's coming It's a long swoop

But it's effective That's the thing It's effective Maybe it's fashionable Three points right now Maybe the skyhook's going to return I hope so Destroy the game again

See the thing is He's already touched on that point Where Yeah It might just make its return Because of one simple thing It was unstoppable Because there's no other Seven foot two dudes Hanging around a basketball court anymore Are there? just make its return because of one simple thing. It was unstoppable.

Because there's no other seven-foot-two dudes hanging around a basketball court anymore, are there? Well, there's a couple, like Joel Embiid. That's what I'm saying. There's a lot of big... There's a lot of big, big guys now. So, I mean, if they think, what is he, 38-something thousand points, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar stuck through the hoop. You're saying to yourself, someone's going to want to go for that.

Someone is going to say, that's my aim. Yeah, well, they're probably going to need a skyhook if they're going to get up there. So therefore, you've got a guy. I mean, Dr. J talked about a whole package. Why can't there be a player that just pops up and goes, not only can I skyhook back in three point because Kareem didn't. Yep. But it does the whole thing. So I'm waiting to see that monster.

That's a perfect beast. You know what you're saying makes sense because, oh, God, Mariano Rivera, who like one of the greatest closers for the Yankees. This is the guy that had one pitch. OK. And guess what? It was so devastating. That's all he needed. And so who's to say that there won't be a player that's just like,

all I do is skyhook, but you can't do anything about it. That's what I do. I skyhook and nothing else. All right, simple rule in sport, keep it simple. Right, we are going to take our first break. But something Rasheed Wallace said about Kareem Abdul-Jabbar had us thinking. Our very own Neil deGrasse Tyson sat down with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar had us thinking. Our very own Neil deGrasse Tyson sat down with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

And when we get back after the break, they'll be breaking down the physics in the unstoppable Skyhook. You're not going to want to miss that, are you? Good. See you shortly. Welcome back. I am Gary O'Reilly. And I'm Chuck Nice. And we are playing with science. Yes, before the break, we're listening to an interview with Rashid Wallace, the NBA superstar legend, probably a future Hall of Famer, no less. And he talked about Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's skyhook. no less, and he talked about Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's skyhook.

Right, quite simply, we put Neil, our very own astrophysicist, Neil deGrasse Tyson, in with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and they broke down the physics behind the unstoppable. When I look at a basketball game, part of me sees it as a physicist does. So there's a ball, it's round, there's a hoop, which is bigger than the ball, and there are all manners of shots that come at it from different angles different trajectories and your skyhook

Your hand at fully extended It's got to be like eight or nine feet in the air I mean did they measure this when I shot the skyhook my hand was about between When I shot the skyhook, my hand was about between 10 feet and 11 feet in the air. Because you're also jumping. Yeah, I'm also jumping. Okay, so now the rim is 10 feet up. Exactly 10 feet.

So the ball is basically going down. So the physics of this, of course, is the more the ball can just go down, the greater chance it has for going in right so you want to you want to shoot a high arcing shot that drops that drops you don't want to just get it to crawl over yeah if it just crawls over then there's the cross section changes much smaller right right i don't people know that so so you want to take circle and angle it. The cross section to you is smaller now. Right. So you want to get your shot should have a high arc and come straight down. Are you thinking about that physics when you were taking that shot? Because you had your physics class.

I understood what I wanted to do, so I had all the ballistics and everything worked out. So I had all the ballistics and everything worked out What percent of your 38,000 points were sky hook points would you guess I'd say three quarters three quarters. Yeah But you know, I learned everything I learned, you know had to do with learning the mechanics of the shot and Shooting a bow and arrow Because she figure out what the drop is all about you know what the arc is all about and once you get got that figured out you can you become a accurate your marksman at that point so your basketball marksman you have to be no well if you're gonna

be successful you know and I led the league in field goal percentage a number of years. I think that was really my success. I had a successful shot that they couldn't block. That's what enabled me to endure. I'm an NBA marksman. Yeah. I'm an archer. Yeah.

You can see why. He's the Katniss of the NBA. Yeah. He would punch me if he heard me say that. And because he trained with Bruce Lee, it would hurt. Oh, my God. I forgot about that. Now you're thinking that's not a good idea.

Yeah, not a good guy to get into a fight, right? No. A seven-foot-tall black belt. Ninja. Yeah. But the combination of the understanding of the physics and the innate athletic ability plus being 7'2", that combination is ridiculous. No wonder the endurance and the fact he's got 38,000 points. You know, 38,000 points of which he said that three quarters, three quarters of which came from that sky hook.

That's unbelievable. Do you remember the interview when he said, and Neil asked him, and I thought it was a wonderful question, how many three-pointers did you actually hit? And his answer? One. Yeah. One that he should never have attempted. In his estimation, he said he should have.

And Neil said to him afterwards, if you'd have missed, what would your teammates have said? Oh, yeah, they'd have let me have it. Yeah, they're like, what the hell are you doing? Yeah, you might be Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, but don't be shooting three points. Exactly. But in today's game, that's, listen. Yeah.

You got seven-footers that are out at the three-point line all the time shooting the ball. So maybe in today's game, it wouldn't be so looked down upon. No, but I mean, it goes back to Dr. J and all roads lead to Dr. J. You need a player who's a complete package. I need you to be big. I need you to smash it through the hoop, but I need you to pop out in the three-point line and drop some for me. Amazing. All right, let's go on to our next clip. It's that time of the year in the NBA when every bounce, every rebound and point are meaningful. So who better to ask about succeeding in the playoffs than championship winner himself, Rashid Wallace. Let's check this out. secret. Is there a secret to success in the playoffs?

Defense. Simple as? You sound like an old man. You know that, right? You sound like an old man right now. Defense wins championships. Defense and it's possessions. You got to value the possessions more in the playoffs. See, the thing is, you went

there so many times, but you didn't win every time. Did you use the pain to bounce back? did you use it to slingshot yourself forward or did it just hurt too much no no i mean it hurt don't get me wrong but after that hurt comes that anger like man i don't believe these cats got us out of here and that fuels you for that next year for that next season and for the playoffs because during the regular season it's like all right i can't wait, I can't wait till we get back into April and May. And then when it comes around, now it's you ready

and you remember that time when it was the shot or you had a turnover or something where you came up on a losing end. You remember that time. What would you prefer to be? Playoff favorite or playoff underdog? Me personally, I'd go with the underdog. Philly again. It's the Philly thing again. Yeah yeah it's the philly thing again yeah it is

philly thing again gotta love the underdog you're gonna want to have that attitude that little bit of grit but it's interesting all the teams that get knocked out in the playoffs when they're taking that bus ride out and away from the stadium you think they're thinking what if we'd have just kept possession at that moment at that minuscule moment in the whole series of maybe three, four, five, seven games? That's why he says you've got to value the possessions. Every single thing. You go through a whole season, a regular season, you might give the ball away. Okay, this is backwards and forwards. There's so many, what, over 200 points on the board by the end of the game. But in the playoffs,

you have to protect that ball with your life. It's amazing. Absolutely. Every possession counts, you know, no more so than in the playoffs. And I don't know if the team is thinking that when they're leaving the stadium. I know the fans are, though. You suck. No, I'm joking.

No, but the thing is. If only you had that one play. That's all you needed, that one stupid play. I hate you so much. I'm not going to be able to pay my mortgage now. Oh, why did I bet on this game? Oh, I'm sorry. I was just having a flashback.

Okay. No more flashbacks. But that's it. It's that once you go into the playoff scenario and you're conscious of the fact that every possession is vital, you've got a better chance as a unit of coming out the other side on top. But see, that would screw up my head, man.

If I was thinking about every possession, wouldn't that psychologically kind of wear on you as a player? No, no, no. Because then you turn it to... You're thinking about the importance of every single play? Yeah. I'm not just thinking about the importance of every single play. Every time I'm passing,

I'm looking to pass to your best hand, your best foot. I'm looking to pass to you in a position where you won't get intercepted by an opponent so I've got to pass that ball to the opposite side to where you're being marked. All of those things they're minute details but they're the details that get you success beyond the other team where they're just trying not and they're new to the system. You do it and you work. And that becomes a positive because everybody's thinking the same way.

That's why the teams that succeed are managing at that much of a level. That's a lot of pressure, man. No, it's not. It's something you thrive on. It's something that once everybody gets to think mentally and tune in on, that's where you get success. So to you guys out there,

do you hear how, see, this is the difference between a former professional athlete and a comedian. I'm like, that's a lot of pressure. He's like, no, no, it's not. I'm like, yes. I sound like that? Yes, it is. You sound a little bit like that.

I'm still working on my Gary. Don't worry. I'm still working on my Gary. I'm going to get it. I'm not going to unveil it until it's ready. You know what I mean? I'll end up sounding like the butler from Downton Abbey or something. Oh, my word.

All right. So we asked one NBA championship winner. But why ask one when you can ask two? Dr. J, your thoughts on playoff success, please. We spoke to Rashid Wallace, and the pain of getting so close and not succeeding, did you use it? And then, apart from scoring more points,

is there a secret to success in the playoffs? I think one for all, all for one, having unity, solidarity. In the early years in Philly I don't think we had that I think you know we had some guys after film sessions you know they were waking up when the projector got turned off and the lights came on whatever but those guys you know never came back and made it back to the finals and the guys who made it to the finals were the ones who paid attention

to detail who were alert and who were physically maybe less talented than their earlier teams, you know, but more committed to being champions. Wow, he kind of went on what you just said, man. He's like, it's really about the attention to detail. It's, you know, to paying attention to the tiny little things. Because if it was that easy, everybody would win. No, that's not true. You're still a professional sport. See, this is what I'm talking about. This is the mentality. If it was that easy. First of all, it's not that easy.

No, exactly. So I'm just saying. It's not that easy just to play. It's funny because every professional athlete that I've met, you guys all have this same mentality. Like, yo, this is just what we do, but you're unaware of the fact that you're in a, like, 0.02 global percentage of the population. Okay, let me then take that and fine-tune it.

Imagine you're a good pro at whatever the situation is, basketball, football, baseball, soccer, whatever. But at the top of that particular game, there are players that are unbelievable. Right. And that is where you have to keep chasing. And you are going to have to put them out of the game. You're going to have to take away the game that makes them so good. Or you're going to have to feed them to make their game benefit you if they're on your team. So you are always operating in a certain

way. You don't take it for granted, but your awareness of it should be something that's implanted into your thinking at an early age. I suppose you're mad at that guy. That happens. By the way, do you think all teammates love each other? No, there's some guys punch each other's lights out in the locker room before, during, and after games. However, the only thing that has to happen is the logic of you don't win, the team wins. So that comes first. So you have to be the one thing. See, I'm mad at you. Yeah.

You know, I'm not passing you the ball. Exactly. That's right. Oh, that's happened in a game. Yeah, I'm like, you're going to have to apologize to me. You know what happened before at you. Yeah. You know, I'm not passing you the ball. Exactly, yeah. That's right. Oh, that's happened in a game. Yeah, I'm like, you're going to have to apologize to me. You know what happened before the game, okay? Now, you say you're sorry, and maybe I'll pass you the ball, all right? Oh, no, no.

There are games that go on at the highest levels where one player will not pass to another player on purpose, no matter what the situation. They would rather kick the ball into the crowd, throw it somewhere else. That person is not getting the ball. Guys, guys, we're not talking to LeBron. Okay. Guys, just letting you know, we're not talking to LeBron. See that if you did that with LeBron, LeBron will do one thing. Give me the ball. Right. Yeah. Because there's the mantra. There's the mantra. And I had this discussion with somebody just the other day. Winners want the ball.

Just the other day, LeBron, there's three seconds left on the clock. It's 95 apiece with the Pacers. LeBron just goes, give me the ball. He gets the ball. What happens? Drains it. Three points. 98-95.

Everybody goes home. And LeBron is jumping up on the umpire's table and he's thumping his chest at the crowd and this is my house nice yeah that's what it's about that's what it's about when all the tactics all of the psychology is done and you're level and it's three seconds left you need your big guy to stand up oh guys, we're still not speaking to LeBron. Someone's going to have to mediate. It'll be me, won't it? Right, let's take a break.

Oh, dear. Someone get me LeBron's agent. Right, when we come back, more Rasheed Wallace, more Dr. J, and maybe a love-in between LeBron and Chuck. Who knows? Back shortly. Welcome back. I am Gary O'Reilly. And I'm Dr. J.

And this is Playing With Science. Yeah, I'm actually Chuck Nice, okay? Sorry. We like you being Dr. J. So do I. Yeah, it's cool. It's good to be king. So, right, we put Chuck in a situation where he had to stand on a two-foot block of wood

so as he could talk to NBA legend Rasheed Wallace. So Chuck was back up there in the rarefied altitude of the bigs. This time, Chuck was getting tips on life and not just how to get down. Yeah. What is the basketball mindset for life? So take you on the court. Oh, I like this question. Pull you out of the court, into life.

What is the mindset from the game that you see and have to use every day? Take care of your body. Really? Take care of your body. From the time when you're a young fella, just think about it. When you're in high school, that's when you really start working out. No matter what you're doing, no matter the sport, and you continue that in your collegiate career,

and you continue that in your pro career. But some people think that, okay, once that athlete retires, then it just stops. I don't have to work out no more. Habits. Still got to work out. You still got to keep it in shape. And in turn, it lifts you up for for that day

so if i get up early in the morning i get a good workout in well then i'm ready to attack or challenge whatever work options that i have in front what i did not expect that at all i know but he gave you he just opened straight up and went this is it this is how i see it now everybody sees it differently within a certain bandwidth they're're all the same. But that was his take. So let me ask you then, what did you take from professional soccer into your life? Is there a, I don't know, a philosophy, a mantra, a particular everyday train of thought that stays with you on a daily? Stick at it. Keep going.

Keep working. Keep thinking that you've got to do something. Keep moving. The game evolves. You have to evolve with it, which means you have to keep working to keep up. The older you get, the more experience you have. You utilize that, bring it back, fold it into what you're doing. You're always growing. You're always trying to step upwards because you know as you get older, your body's going to start to kind of come backwards and you're going to have to pick up the slack to go forwards with it that's pretty cool that's pretty cool yeah i mean i think you see a lot of people say that about um uh what's his face oh yeah tom

brady um you're back on the brady thing no i'm just saying like you know i mean you know hey granted he's the greatest quarterback of all time i For sure. I'm not going to say, you know. No, for sure. But a lot of people are just like, he might play until he's like 50 because he's, you know, he knows how to play the game differently as an older player. Well, there's quarterbacks, I mean, as much as I know, you can be the best, most athletic quarterback in the world. But if you've got a defensive line that doesn't protect you, you're not going to last very long. No, absolutely. And it only takes like one 20-year-old defensive lineman to break through and put you on your back. And then it's just like, yeah, maybe I should go home and be with my supermodel wife and like spend all this money

instead of being out here looking stupid at age 40, whatever. So I'm just saying that's my internal dialogue. I'm sensing jealousy. I'm sensing just a little sprinkling of jealousy. I'm not saying that maybe Tom Brady thinks that way. You know, I'm just saying that maybe I would think that way. No, I think Tom Brady cannot exist. And we go back to sort of like Dr. J and Rasheed.

He cannot exist without being unbelievably professional and bringing every cognitive skill to play because he knows. I mean, he looks in the mirror, he knows he's 40, not 20 something. So he's thinking, right, how do I keep myself in the best position to protect me? He's got every spider sense going.

Yeah. As well as one of the best defensive lines in front of it. You know, so he's just got to have all of that going in the same place. And his coach knows that's my crown jewel. I'll do whatever it takes to protect him. Well, you better sell those jewels. All right. Okay.

Keep an eye on eBay is all we can say. Right. Because Chuck and Rashid were new bezies, it was time for that question. Yeah. Name your best ever starting five. But before we get there, you've got two minutes, just two minutes. Jot down who you think the starting five is that he will choose. No going by the fridge and taking like two hours and coming back later. Two minutes you've got. Then we're going to run the tape run that tape go on then i need from you a starting

five of all time anybody from across the history of basketball and you you got to put yourself on the team though all right now but you can change any position you want to play okay so you don't just have to play your position you can change any position all want to play, okay? So you don't just have to play your position. You can change any position you want to play. All right, okay, make it easier. I need you. Let's go with a six. Okay, we'll get a six-man. And you can play yourself, then the man that you would swap in and out.

So starting five and a six-man. Who would your six-man be? Wow, that's hard, man. That's a tough one, ain't it? Chuck, you and I aren't in it. I would say, okay, my starting center, got to be the captain. Okay. Okay.

Right. Kareem. My starting point, I would have to go with John Stockton. Wow. Plays D, and he gives up that ball. Whoa. Interesting. My two guard, I would say would be between Mike and the Big O.

Okay. The Big O was aggressive in his day, and he did a lot of amazing things as well. The three, for sure, is that gentleman over there. Of course. Dr. J. Dr. J. For sure. The four, my four man would probably be Maurice Lucas.

Maurice Lucas was the hell of a defender, grabbed some rebounds, and he was a bruiser. He didn't take no crap. He's a banger. Okay. Wow, six-man is hard. Sheesh. But it takes a lot for a six-man.

You got to come off the bench, know the game, score, and you got defense. Hmm. I don't know. That sixth man would be hard. Chuck Nice. He's Chuck Nice. Chuck Nice. There you go.

Maybe Coop. Strong, strong power forward slash shooting guard slash point guard out of Philly. There you go. Man, that was easy. That was easy. Wasn't it, Jess? Rasheed, what a pleasure. What an honor.

Thank you, sir. Thanks so much, brother. Appreciate you. All day. All day. Thank you, sir. Thanks so much, brother. Appreciate you. All day. Thank you. Thank you. We didn't make it. Well, kind of-ish.

You made it. I made it on the sixth man, you know. Try to get Michael Cooper in there. Listen, I'll take pity wherever I can get it. I can't tell you how much pity sucks I've had in my life. So, makes me no difference. Oh, anyone else feel uncomfortable hearing that? Or is it makes me no difference. Oh, anyone else feel uncomfortable hearing that? Or is it just me?

You know what I can't believe is that he didn't put LeBron on the all-time list. See, that's what the older players do, man. The guys that have been around, they're just like, nah, you got to wait. You got to do your time, and then we can put you in history. But it's so weird that he did not put LeBron even as the sixth man. Do you think he got sat down and was told to wait before he got sort of a hint? I'm sure.

Yeah, I mean, that's normally how it goes. But, I mean, I can see Oscar Robinson. He said the big O. I can definitely see, of course, Jordan's on there. John Stockton, though? I mean, listen, but he's talking about a point guard. So, yeah. I mean, that's a guy who knows how to pass the ball. Stockton may not be the fan's favorite, but I think he's one of those guys.

He's a player's player. If you're a player, player, player, yeah. Yeah, because if you played with him or you played against him, you knew if you were in a schoolyard pick, him. Right. He's just one of those guys. Yeah, I kind of like Pistol Pete Maravich, too. I mean, if you're going to play somebody who knows how to pass the ball like that.

But forget that. Here's the video. It was an unfair question. It is. It's an unfair question because it doesn't make, you know, it's impossible to ask. I mean, to answer. Subjective. Yeah, it's completely subjective.

You can't say Rasheed Wallace's answer is wrong. Right. Because it's his answer. It's his answer. And hopefully you've got somewhere in that kind of ballpark as far as names are concerned with starting five and possibly a six. We'll see. As long as Chuck Nice was on your list, then your list was perfectly okay. You see, set you up for that.

There you go. Right. Before we close out the show, we cannot, cannot leave without letting Dr. J have the final say. So who is the Dr. J of today? This is the big man's thoughts. All right, let me ask you one last question. When you look at the game today, is there a player in your mind where you say, man, that kid reminds me of a young Julius Irving?

Well, you know, I've been asked the question a number of times, and when I see Kawhi let it play, when he's at his best, I mean, I think that guy, he's a reflection of how I used to play, how I used to see myself play. Okay, cool. Yeah. That's awesome. Dr. J, thank you.

All right. Such a pleasure. It's a pleasure. Thank you, sir. Good talking to you guys. Without a doubt. Thank you, man. Thank you.

And he sees. He's not turned his back on the game. He's still got a guys. Without a doubt. Thank you, man. Thank you. And he sees. He's not turned his back on the game. He's still got a love. I know he's been involved with coaching Dr. J. And you've got that feeling through Rashid and through Dr. J that they're still emotionally connected. Yeah. They're still very thoughtful, very deep in the modern game

and not just walked away and seen it cold. They're still very much part of it. And their awareness of what's going on, their awareness of all of the aspects and dimensions of the game are still there. I mean, with the next show, with part two, when we get into the basketball shoe technology, from memory, they have some very, very interesting stories. Yeah.

Dr. J was involved in an awful lot during the 70s and 80s. Absolutely. In shoe development with Converse. He's practically a shoe designer. Yeah. And then Rashid, well, he's Philly. And you know what that means. Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Bad attitude. No, I'm joking. Sorry, Philly. No, it means a certain edginess, which I think as a competitive elite athlete, particularly NBA, vital component. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

Well, this was a fun show, man. It was. I'm so pleased. Our first clip show. Yeah. Hey! And I'm so pleased that we got this unrivaled, unparalleled access to amazing athletes like Dr. J and Rasheed Wallace. And we're grateful for everybody for doing that.

Yeah, well, it's quite simple today. I've been Gary O'Reilly. And I've been Chuck Nice. And this has been Playing With Science. Don't forget, part two of our basketball miniseries up very, very soon.