StarTalk Radio - #ICYMI - NFL Fitness and Nutrition (Repeat)

Episode Date: January 11, 2018

Chuck and Gary get schooled by the men who optimize player performance for the pros: Glen Tobias of the NY Jets, and Dave Puloka and Wayne Diesel of the Miami Dolphins. Neil Tyson interviews quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick and former players John Urschel and Terry Crews.Don’t miss an episode of Playing with Science. Subscribe to our channels on:Apple Podcasts: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/playing-with-science/id1198280360?mt=2GooglePlay Music: https://play.google.com/music/listen?u=0#/ps/Iimke5bwpoh2nb25swchmw6kzjqSoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/startalk_playing-with-scienceStitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/startalk/playing-with-scienceTuneIn: http://www.tunein.com/playingwithscienceNOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can watch/listen to this entire episode commercial-free here: https://www.startalkradio.net/all-access/nfl-fitness-and-nutrition/ Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to new episodes ad-free and a whole week early.

I'm Gary O'Reilly and I'm Chuck Knight and this is Playing With Science. Today we serve up the NFL's take on sports nutrition and conditioning with the Manhattan Sports Medicine, New York Jet and Boston Red Sox nutritionist, Glenn Tobias, Miami Dolphins strength and conditioning coach, Tave Beluca, and sports performance director, Wayne Diesel. Yeah, and we're also going to liberally sprinkle in some tasty morsels from Jets quarterback, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Ravens offensive lineman, John Urschel, and former Rams and Redskins star, now actor, Terry Crews,

all cooked up to perfection. You see what I'm doing here? Yeah, yeah. You see what I'm doing here? By our own master chef, Neil deGrasse Tyson. But don't worry if you think you couldn't possibly digest all of that in one sitting. We on Playing With Science guarantee, totally guarantee, it is calorie free. And we're going to stop with those references right now

because we're probably freaking him out with these little references. Joining us in studio today, Glenn Tobias. Hey, man, how's it going? Very good. Thank you. Thank you for having me here. Hey, thanks for being here. Thank you.

You know, before we get going, Glenn, you know, one of the things we always do with the show is we start off with a clip that kind of demonstrates what we're talking about for the topic of the day. And so we've chosen something very special. We've got two clips back to back, and it's kind of a look at how the athlete has changed over the years. And then we'll talk about how nutrition has played a part in that. So let's take a look at the first clip, which is the Atlanta Falcons playing the Dallas Cowboys. And the quarterback throws over the middle to the tight end. And this play looks like it takes forever. Go ahead and cue that up. So here they are on the set and it's a fake to

the fullback. And there it is, Johnson. Tight end now has the ball and looks like he's taking the stroll to the park. It's hard to believe that this tape has not been doctored because they look as if they're moving so slowly. Yeah, it's a 34-yard play and the tight end feels like he took like a minute to run 34 yards. And now here they are from a different angle. And as you can see, the play's unfolding. Here's the ball over the middle. Tight end has it. And I mean, this guy looks like he is putting every effort possible.

He's huffing. And still it looks like they're swimming through pea soup. It's funny. At ground level level he will have the feeling that he is traveling at the speed of light

exactly and from that camera angle when you're on ground level right Gary you would think the play would

look even faster because you're seeing it from that vantage point alright so now let's take a look at the second clip Glenn

and this I believe is Detroit Lions and it's an end zone to end zone play to Megatron. Need I say more? Let's cue that and see what we got. The Lions now near the back of their own end zone. Not good. Dangerous territory for Dan Orlovsky.

Now, this clip looks like it's on fast forward compared to the other. Calvin Johnson, Megatron. And finally, they find the big man who has it for six. Did you see that? The whole play took like seven seconds. So the one play, it takes a guy like 10 seconds for the play to unfold, and it's a 34-yard play over the middle. Here is end zone to end zone.

The whole thing takes eight seconds. And it's a touchdown to Calvin Johnson, Megatron. Moving a lot faster. Moving. And so this is what has happened. Where does that come from? I know, is it because athletes are more powerful now or because there's a whole construction

behind the evolution of football play? Absolutely. I mean, you have to think that nutrition is the energy in, and it's a 24-hour game. Whereas when you're practicing and you're on a field, whether it be baseball or football or what have you, you're putting in the effort at that time, but now really the nutrition aspect is all the time,

and you fuel the machine better, you get better output, and that's a prime example. That's funny. Fuel the machine better, you get better output. And that's a prime example. That's funny. So now when you are, because you're playing with, you're working with. Sometimes it's fun. Yeah, exactly.

It's always fun. But you're working with professional baseball players and professional football players. baseball players and professional football players. Is there a difference in the approach to nutrition for different sports? I think for all sports, you're just really working with the athlete. And depending on what their needs are, their age is a big component. Their height, their weight, what position they play at what sport. So everything, what country they're from, what part of this country they're from. So it's a whole cultural thing.

Yeah. Holistic. Everything, because what your grandma made you when you were little makes you feel comfortable and warm and fuzzy. You're going to always go to that. Now I can't stop thinking about my grandma. Okay. You take a trip down memory lane. I can't stop thinking about my grandma.

Okay. You take a trip down memory lane. We are going to catch up with Neil deGrasse Tyson and see what else he had to say with Jets quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick. Let's check it out. In football, other than what may have been developments in equipment, do you see any other ways that science has touched the game since you first came out of college back in 05?

So it's now 11 years. What have you seen? How about in training as well? I mean, just nutrition. That's probably the biggest advancement. You know, I'm 12 years in now. You're an old-timer, right? 12 years?

I'm the oldest guy on the team. You like to sound exasperated. Oh, my God. But, I mean, these guys now, the way that you are taught to take care of your body, Oh, my God. I mean, it definitely, they've got it tailored down to a science now. And for me, like, you know, I don't know. I like to go eat a cheeseburger and fries, you know, but that's not acceptable anymore. These guys are fueling their bodies and already world-class athletes, but even honing it in that much more, you know, one thing that we do that didn't really exist when I came into the league,

there's a thing called a bod pod. And you sit in and it gives you an accurate assessment of your body fat percentage. And so I'm 34 years old. I'm kind of on the tail end. So that's like a death march for me to have to go step into the bod pod and see how fat I've become. Because the hamburger you ate last night, that shows up right to you. Exactly. There's a hamburger right there.

Exactly. Wow. Busted. Yeah, exactly. In front of the nutritionist. Right in front of the nutritionist. But it's funny. You guys actually started talking in the same terms when he was talking about these world-class athletes who are fueling their bodies.

He was talking about these world-class athletes who are fueling their bodies. So is this more of a life philosophy that you have to adopt when you're a player? It goes more into being a professional. I have high school students I work with, collegiate and professional. The more you get into it, the more you get into it. And the longer you want to stay doing it. If that's your livelihood, then there is really less of an off-season, if you will, irrelevant of sport. There is no off-season.

There's no off-season. You're always training. You're always trying to get better. You're always fueling. So what's been the biggest breakthrough in nutrition in the last, say, 10, 15 years? Because that clip we saw then from 1966. I mean, the knowledge then as opposed to saw then from 1966 sure I mean the knowledge then as opposed

to the knowledge in the 80s and the 80s to now it must be a gulf or is there I mean there's definitely advancements I mean years ago

the guys would eat steak and eggs and that was right that's what they ate and they ate as much of it as they could now it's about timing

really it's about balancing of the meal protein fat and carb ratios it's about supplementation it's about balancing of the meal protein fat and carb ratios it's about supplementation it's about a whole you take in sleep hydration yes so now those are two different and so now you consider that part of nutrition absolutely because this is one of the biggest um i won't say it's not a controversy we know now that sleep is extremely important but it's

critical as as we have done more and more studies on sleep, you see increased performance. For sure. So can it go too far? Can I sleep too much? You can do anything too much. You can ruin a good thing always. But in general, if you're not sleeping enough, your testosterone levels can drop.

You're not going to be able to function properly, so you can't be optimal. There's a big difference between survival and optimization in an athlete. So if I've gone sleep deprivation, we'll go that far and call it that, and I come to you and say, hey, I'm not sleeping as well as I should as a professional athlete. Is there a series of foodstuffs that you say have these, these, and these? I know where you're going, but I would actually back it out and say, what time are you off of your iPhone? Right. Because that's probably a light blasting in your face, and then you're going to try to go to sleep, and you can't.

And then you're going to wonder why. So there's so much involved. I'm not going to go with a quick fix food for you. But could there be dietary contributions to sleep deprivation, to insomnia? Like, for instance, I can't drink coffee after 3 o'clock in the afternoon. And I don't know why, but if I have

a cup of coffee at 3 o'clock, I am not going to bed until 2 a.m. That's all there is to it, unless I take something. You also just said that, so you're making it so. Really? That's a big part of it, too. Do you think so? Absolutely. Absolutely. If you say it, it is. So I would say that's probably not the case, but I don't really recommend anybody to drink a lot of caffeine. Okay.

The adrenal gland fatigue and just different things that can happen. Is it melatonin? Melatonin. You can find in some sort of cherries. Yeah, absolutely. Cherry juice, yes. Natural melatonin. Very powerful anti-inflammatory.

Great for athletes. Okay. Go ahead. So how much of what we put in our bodies as everyday human beings or elite athletes can you, as a nutritionist, affect by planting seeds like, you know what, how much time are you spending on your phone? And if you say it's so, it's so. The mental aspect of the diet, the nutrition. Mental nutrition. Mental nutrition is everything because when you don't feel well, it's so. The mental aspect of the diet, the nutrition. Mental nutrition. Mental nutrition is everything because when you don't feel well, what do you want to eat?

Nothing. No, I want to eat terrible stuff. Right. When you're at home and it's snowing, you want cookies. You want ice cream and cookies. Sure, just junk. That makes you feel good. But in my mind, it's snowing all the time.

There you go. It's a blizzard in this room. God, I want some cookies. Cheer up. mind it's snowing all the time there you go it's a blizzard in this room god i want some cookies the mental game is is huge because you have to take the deliciousness out of the equation if you will as a professional if you want to stay a professional and you want to leave when you're ready to leave and you want to avoid as many injuries as possible and fueling is critical because the better you fuel the the better you will perform. In your work with the Jets, is it just a broad spectrum of foodstuffs that, hey, guys, lunchtime, go and fill up? Or do you specifically tailor diets according to position?

Good man. I was just about to ask, how do you personalize? Do you personalize for individual players? I personalize it for any of the professional athletes that I work with. Wow. That's a lot of work. It is. But everybody's different.

Like I said earlier, what part of this country did you come from or what other country did you come from matters. That's going to be the food choices that you're going to pick when I'm not with you. Now, is that because you want to show somebody a smart to be the food choices that you're going to pick when I'm not with you. Now, is that because you want to show somebody a smart way to make food choices? For instance, let's just say I love pierogies.

Who doesn't? Pasta with potato. It's pasta stuffed with potato and deliciousness. I grew up eating pierogies. Now, you know that when I'm not with Glenn the stuff with potato. Yeah. And deliciousness. I grew up eating pierogies. Okay. Okay. Now, you know that when I'm not with Glenn Tobias, my nutritionist,

I am scarfing down some pierogies. I will show you how to eat pierogies every day that fits into our programming for your goals. I can't tell you you can't eat them because as an adult, do you like to be told what to do?

Does anybody like to? No. How much am I paying by the hour? There you go. But then you get to leave her. But the point is, no one likes to be told. And if I tell you, you're not going to want to stick with that. So I make deals with all the people that I work with, all the athletes.

I make deals. So if you can have a couple of pierogi every day, is that good? Yes, it is. There you go. So use that as a carb, and that's your day, is that good? Yes, it is. There you go. So use that as a carb, and that's your starch for the meal. Here's a thought for you, Glenn. Have you come across any of the elite athletes who have allergies? Sure.

That really create a barrier to what they need to achieve in their nutrition and their daily diet? Allergies, yes. A barrier, no. That's what I do is I see what your issues are. And then you get beyond them. Move right around. Right. So here's another question, which, okay,

may be a little silly, but now that you brought up allergies, have you ever had the knowledge of a player on an opposite team having allergies and then weaponized food, like send them a little peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Like, that guy's not playing today. Where is your mind going?

That's a great question. Yeah. I have never weaponized food. I mean, I'm just saying. As opposed to throwing a sandwich at somebody. When you're angry, you just throw whatever's around. I get that. I'm just saying, you might want to think about it.

You might want to think about it. You know what I mean? I'll put that down. Thank you. Is there a sort of training week strategy for nutrition with your players? Training week? Yeah, so from post-game, the day after a game, come in, and up until the day before, it's standardized.

Yeah, should I eat something different after? A game build-up? Like after the game, should I eat something different now that I've spent myself and I've been beat up all absolutely you're going to want to definitely

eat a lot more carbohydrates than most people think because you have to replace the glycogen that your muscles

just spent so just spent so then you also want a nice high quality protein as well the GI carbs glycemic index

yes right so I don't deal with glycemic index and I'll tell you why please't deal with glycemic index, and I'll tell you why. Please do. Nobody eats one food at one time, and that's what the glycemic index is about. I deal with glycemic load.

How does that meal affect the insulin response? Because you eat meals, correct? Okay. Everybody does. No one eats one thing. All right, so let's talk about that with respect to recovery then. Sure. All right, so here I am. Gary brought up training. So let's talk about that with respect to recovery then. All right. So here I am.

Gary brought up training. So it's my weight day. I'm in. I'm working out. I'm working out. Okay. So now what do you do for something like that as opposed to the day, game day? Here's a great question for you guys real quick.

What's the most important meal of the day? Breakfast. Don't say breakfast. Don't say breakfast? Nope. Okay. How about brunch? Because meal of the day? Breakfast. Don't say breakfast. Don't say breakfast? No. Okay. How about brunch? No. Because it's fabulous?

All right. I'm sorry about that. It's all right. Because we betrayed our ignorance, put us out of our misery. Wait, no, I just want to keep guessing meals now. Is it snack time? No, I don't use the word snack actually in any of my practices. All right, come on, let's go with it then. Is it snack time? No, I don't use the word snack actually in any of my practices.

All right, come on. Let's go with it then. What's the most important meal of the day? It's the meal you have immediately following your workout, your game, your practice. You have to re-pleat what you just de-pleated. Ooh. That's critical. When you say directly after, is there a time limit? As fast as you can do it.

Whether it's a shake. Yeah, if I've exercised, the last thing I want to do is sit down and look at a meal. You don't have to. You can have a shake. Get a shake. But what you want to do is replenish, is what you're saying. Immediately. For recovery purposes.

And so this is just for everybody. This is just for athletes. If you go to the gym once, twice a week. Right. Right after you go. Right after. Is there a standard balance to what would be in that shake? I definitely want a carbohydrate.

A sugar would be good. Everyone demonizes sugar right now. It's because they're eating Skittles all day. But sugar post-workout is critical. And then you want a high-quality protein, such as a whey or something like that. Whey protein. How about in-game nutrition? In-game nutrition is...

So at the moment, a lot of guys in Europe use these energy gels. The goos and the... Yeah, sure. The goo. So, I mean, that's unheard of. Why? Well, first of all, for those who don't... In terms of how many years ago, since when...

For me, that's a very new development in terms of gel technology into a nutritious supplement. All right, so for those who are uninitiated, because you guys are talking about something that maybe people don't know, tell us about the goo and how it's used. Yeah, it's just like... It's a sugar that comes in a pouch or a packet yeah that's thick it was really designed for um triathletes and bicycle endurance bicycle riders so they can just squirt it kind of while they're pedaling and not have to stop right you will but there's a lot of research and a lot of But there's a lot of research and a lot of money being put into in-game nutrition because that's where the athlete makes his or her living.

So that's where the rubber meets the road. So, I mean, we can do it in terms of the analysis with the bio data you get from all the technology that's available. And you'll quite happily work out the guy in the first quarter is a lot more effective than in the fourth quarter because his energy levels are depleted and now you're saying right so now you're saying the coaching staff the sports scientists behind the team have worked this out and are helping remain that athlete remain at a right level moving from the survival to more towards optimal. Think of hunger and thirst. If the athlete gets hungry or thirsty,

it's already a problem. Think of hunger and thirst like the smoke detector at your house. If the smoke detector's going off, you already have a problem. Gotcha. If you're hungry or thirsty, I made a mistake. Right. Because you're supposed to avoid those. I want to avoid it at all costs. So you said after a workout, you don't feel like eating.

Yeah. My expression would be to everyone, I love you and I don't care. Tough love. You have to eat. Yeah. You have to refuel. You can't race a car without putting gas in the tank. Wow.

That's super cool. Well, speaking of fueling and that, we have a clip of where Neil talks to Terry Crews, who of course you know Terry was a former NFL player. And Terry is still a bodybuilder and a fitness enthusiast. So let's hear what he has to say. It's one thing to lift weights, but what are you putting in your mouth? Oh man, super high protein.

High protein. High protein diet. Low carb. And lots of fruits and vegetables. Lots of, I do lots of protein. Meat. I'm a big carnivore. Yeah, yeah.

That's one of the things. I know people want to go vegan. Yeah, people. Not me. And you know they're going to get up. You know they'll talk about you. Now I've had some delicious vegan meals. After a steak.

I've had some delicious vegan meals after a steak. A delicious vegan side dish next to the most awesome chicken breast I've ever had. And not to dog them out. I eat vegan all the time. After my T-bone steak. It's starting to get really like, okay, you're... I'm like, okay, anytime that finger's pointing, come on, guys, just relax. Yeah, it becomes a whole other. Relax.

I didn't, you know, I just need the protein. Two things there. One, you know, a lot of people are vegans and sports athletes, or lots, you know, from weightlifters to NFL players to you name it. But that seems to be a bit of an old school approach to nutrition. He's like high, high protein, low carbs. But he's not low carb. What he meant is he's low starch. Right.

Because he eats a lot of fruits and vegetables and fruits and vegetables are all carbs. All carbs. Those are carbs. Right. So he's just not having a lot of rice, pasta, potato, and bread. So is that kind of like how we've changed? We don't realize that we've, we really haven't changed what is the prescription. We've changed the way we talk about the prescription.

To a certain extent. But he is also more, you know, he acts now and he needs to have his body look a certain way. Right. So he's not eating like an athlete any longer. Whereas an athlete would have much more starch requirements. Could I run a whole team on a vegan diet?

Could you? You can. It's possible. It was the short and sweet of it. You can. And by the way, they'd probably be the meanest team ever because they'd be so mad that you're making them eat a vegan diet, they would destroy their opponent. Or team ever because they'd be so mad that you're making them eat a vegan diet, they would destroy their opponent. Or just tired because they didn't eat. Now you look across that offensive line,

and what you see is a piece of chicken. Now go get it! And they will. So you can. I mean, I don't know if I would recommend that. No, I was just wondering, with the way people are addressing their food intake now, and they're going more towards the vegan end of the spectrum. Some could well happen.

Some are. Some are. Not a lot. And what do you think about veganism as a, I'll say, routine for... If you like that and you feel better that way right and you'll continue eating that way it can be great but you can also you can put on excess body fat eating vegan right so it's not you're going to be lean so you got to do it the right way it's basically no matter what you do you really do you got to do it the right way you know everybody knows how to eat you know i've been

doing this for 24 years professionally but everybody knows how to eat can they come in oh i already know how to eat i say thank god because we don't have to go over how to use a fork and knife right and then they're like i can't believe i just said i know how to eat. I say, thank God, because we don't have to go over how to use a fork and knife. And then they're like, I can't believe I just said I know how to eat. But the thing is, you have to gain muscle to burn fat. Most people want to lose fat. So fat's like the bricks in the trunk of the car you're racing. And the muscle is like having a bigger engine.

So everyone wants the bigger engine and less bricks in the trunk. So what we have to do is, another expression is, you know, the plant Only grows as big As the pot that it's in Right So I have to feed you more So you can build more muscle So you can burn more fat So if you're looking To lose the 10 pounds First of all you don't

You want to lose body fat You don't want to lose weight Right Nobody really wants To lose weight Athlete Depending on what Their position may be

They have to be A certain weight But if you can stay The same weight But lose 5 pounds of fat and gain five pounds of lean body mass, you look and feel very gold. You're golden.

So stop weighing yourself. Because what are you weighing? Drink a gallon of water and don't go to the restroom. What happens? You gain eight pounds. You're miserable. You're going to explode.

But you gain eight pounds. You're not eight pounds fatter. So what are you weighing? There you go. All right. Well, everybody should feel better about that. Stop weighing yourselves, people. Get off that scale and start eating more.

Yeah. All right. I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just saying words. Sounding good. Hey, man, thanks so much for joining us. This was a real, you got to come back. Anytime.

Cool. I look forward to that. That'd be good. Yeah. Right. We are going to take our first break up next we'll explore the latest advances in strength training and conditioning thank you of course to glenn tobias and when we come back with playing with science we'll be talking to people

from the miami dolphins so do not go away welcome back i'm gary o'reilly. And I'm Chuck Nice. And this, of course, is Playing With Science. Today we're exploring the NFL's take on sports nutrition, conditioning, recovery, fitness, if you wish to call it that. And now I think we'll dig into the latest advances in strength and training conditioning. But before we do, I think we ought to get a little clip again from Neil deGrasse Tyson and his interview with John Urschel, the offensive lineman from the Baltimore Ravens. You're 25 now and you're packing 300 pounds? Yeah, that's right. Man, you guys today

are out of control. In the old days, 300 pounds looked really rotund. You know, these guys, they were just, they were out there to just not, just to get in people's way, not to actually be nimble. So what's going on? I mean, in terms of training, what's different between today and like 30 years ago? I think it's better nutrition, just better information about training. And also the game's different. Guys are bigger. I mean, I'm 310 pounds

and i'm on the smaller side when it comes to offensive linemen wow okay 310 and he's small so i'm a little guy at 310 pounds of muscle okay so our guests now and welcome to them is dave palooka head strengths and conditioning coach mi Miami Dolphins. And next to him, Wayne Diesel, sports performance director of the Miami Dolphins. Gentlemen, congratulations to your posts and welcome to Playing With Science. Good to be here. Good afternoon. Good afternoon.

Right, you heard John O'Shell there talking about how guys are getting bigger. So how do you make your guys bigger without as Neil turned termed it making them rotund well a lot of that is through nutrition and so but it's also through training as well you know obviously football as is is a game where you want to be big strong and fast but it's not always the answer to just make everybody bigger because you don't want to sacrifice athletic qualities. You don't want to sacrifice their ability to move.

So it's really kind of about assessing them, seeing where each player is at, and then coming up with a plan for whether or not we want to get them big, maintain, or maybe they need to lose weight. You know, oftentimes it's about improving their body composition. It's not just about adding muscle mass. What's the most frequent request you get from guys?

Is it size or is it make me faster? It depends on who you're talking to. You know, our skill position guys, receivers, DBs, sometimes they want to get bigger, but usually they're more concerned with speed. Now, obviously, they wouldn't be if they weren't already fast. So, our jobs at this level, it's not, you know, if we were back in high school or in college and we were really trying to develop getting, gaining size or getting faster, that's one thing. But by the time they reach us, a lot of it is keeping

them healthy, making sure that they can perform at a high level every Sunday. So for some guys, that might mean putting on some lean mass in the off season. But for a lot of guys, it just, it might mean we need to improve their ankle mobility. We need to improve their ability to control their posture and their core musculature. We might be asking them to improve their shoulder mobility. So there's lots of aspects of performance. It's not simply just putting on muscle mass, although that can be a goal for some guys. When people talk about fast, we need to be clear what we mean by fast. Is it fast in the marathon sense? Is it fast for a sprinter? Is it someone that can decelerate, some some acceleration some explosive power

so we need to understand what component is important and obviously for the position that they're playing so we want to look at and breaking that fast that speed component down into acceleration deceleration and obviously top end speed where a lot of the players aren't ever going to get to top end speed but they need to be explosive so this is a really fine detail program that you work with on each and every one of your players then as requires their position and the nature of the disciplines that they have to execute every time that's correct so what we'll try and do from my sport science side of it we'll try and institute protocols where we can track their speed the explosive the accelerations decelerations then dave on the other hand he's responsible for implementing programs to make that that's analyzing the results of the players what the how many explosive movements that they have,

are they quick enough in that particular sport, can they accelerate, can they decelerate, to then make sure that we provide enough stimulus through their practice so that when they get into a game that demands X number of accelerations, decelerations, explosive movements, that they are able to cope with that demand. But for that to happen, you have to have a lot of data. I mean, are you using a lot of technology to accrue this bio data or are you just using your own eyesight to look at the guys while they work? A bit of both.

Exactly right. We will have tracking devices that the players wear during practices and they actually do wear it during games as well. that the players wear during practices and they actually do wear it during games as well. So we can then interpret some of the movement, the speeds, the distances covered, the acceleration, the descent, all those metrics that I discussed earlier. Those are available to us. And again, it's like everything else. It's how you interpret it, how you put that together in order to make me feel better.

There's a lot of information and you've just got to be careful that you don't then become the tail that wags the dog, and then you start dictating it based on some of the metrics. Because the obvious thing is that in certain positions, players are going to run less than in other positions, for example. So you can't just using how much a player runs as whether or not they're a good player or not. They could be running around down a blind alley and be totally ineffective. Where someone else understands the game a lot better, runs less, and is actually the better player. So, you know, you need a bit of both. You need the eyes, and you obviously need the stats to back it up. But it should be that way around, rather than the stats trying to dictate what's going on.

So, let me ask you, Dave, how do you, when you're designing a program for a player and now, Wayne, you're observing that player, when do you know you have optimized the workout where the player's not overtraining so that you don't see a decrease in performance because they did too much in the actual training you know training is all about applying stress at the right times you know seeing how they adapt to that stress and then and then creating or adapting your program uh as needed so in other words if a guy's not doing enough we can apply more stress if a guy's doing too much we can back off a little bit so that that's that's kind of the crux of it right there um you know as wayne was kind of alluding to you know we've got you know the offseason 90

players and in season we've got 53 plus our practice squad of 10 guys everyone's different so if you apply the same stress to all every 90 guys or 63 guys that's on the team everyone's going to adapt at a different rate yeah and it's some guys that might be too much, some guys that might be too little, for some guys that might be just right. So the job of the sports science department and the monitoring process is to kind of assess which guys are getting too much, too little,

and who's just right, and then tweaking the application of that stress, whether it be at practice, whether it be in the weight room, so that they can be ready to play on Sunday. Or our practice squad guys don't play, so they're ready for our hardest practice on Wednesday and Thursday. And that's the hard part of this is where Dave's exactly right, that we're not all born the same.

Not everyone is. They're not the same age. not everyone is exactly the same they're not the same age they don't have the same fitness so the tough part for coaches is to customize programs training programs that is going to not just look after their very best but also protect the ones that are maybe weaker in the physical sense the problem with that is that a lot of programs ultimately fall down to the lowest common denominator because they don't want to injure everyone. So what we're finding is that the really elite players aren't getting

stimulated or stressed enough. And that's where we will come in. So instead of always looking about the injuries, we're looking at the performance and trying to identify our top elite players and say to them, right, because you are so much fitter and more conditioned than the guy next to you you need to do a little bit extra at the end of practice ah that's cool we work out those that need additional work rather than just always trying to protect the weak and the guys that approach injury all right hold that thought for me wang

just for a second we are going to take a break and we will get our teeth deeply into that subject of injury injury prevention and recovery when we come back with both Dave and Wang so stick around it's a crucial component of today's tougher and faster game and we'll explore it straight after the break don't go away. it straight after the break. Don't go away. Welcome back. I'm Gary O'Reilly. And I'm Chuck Nice. And this, of course, is Playing With Science. Yes, yes, yes. And we have explored nutrition. We've explored conditioning. And we're about now to get going on the crucial part of the game, the game that kind of got forgotten for so long because we didn't quite understand. That's injury prevention and particularly the recovery, as we've already

known from Glenn Tobias, our nutritionist. Recovery starts immediately after the game, as far as he's concerned. Now, joining us via Skype, we have Dave Palooka, head strength coach and conditioning from the Miami Dolphins and Wayne Diesel, sports performance director, again from the Dolphins and Chaps. Let's get into that point. We touched on it briefly before the break about injury prevention and how you go about it. How about recovery post-training, post-game? How quickly are you into your athletes as regards recovery from that kind of exercise?

There's a couple of schools of thought here. to your athletes as regards recovery from that kind of exercise? There's a couple of schools of thought here. One is that I think recovery actually starts before the practice session. Whoa. Right. You need to start making sure that they're well hydrated, they have everything in place, and that is how we start. We're looking at recovery before they've even got there,

that they've slept well the night before, they've done all of those things in order for them to exercise with less risk of injury. So what we also do and what's fairly common across the world, the recovery in the early stages of the training, say in the training camps that are coming out, we do less recovery initiatives, for example, like ice baths, all of those things, because we want the body to adapt. So often players will go for an ice bath or something when they're just starting their training program. That actually stops your body from adapting to the stress. We want the body to adapt to that, and that's how it gets better. But as the season goes on, then we'll start introducing more and more recovery techniques for the players, like massage, like cryotherapy, ice baths, all of the things that are available as active recovery in order for them to recover quicker for the next session.

So it also depends on what stage of the season you're talking about as to what recovery technique you'll be using. So much the same as with the strength conditioning that we were discussing before the break, you really are intimate in the detail of the recovery. Now I'm interested in the cryotherapy because it's something that is quite a little bit out there for a lot of elite athletes, but it's becoming more popular in Europe. I know it's been a little bit out there for a lot of elite athletes, but it's becoming more popular in Europe. I know it's been a little bit more embraced here in the US. So those temperatures are quite low. So you can't be putting athletes in there for any length of time. Can you expand on how you use cryotherapy? We actually utilize cryotherapy at the moment. It's one of the,

we go to a center that's literally a five-minute drive of the facility that we have, and the players can go there, and it'll take them up to three minutes, two to three minutes, a recovery session. And that is based on basically, as you said, very, very, very low temperatures. It helps to stimulate some of the responses, the hormonal responses within the body that adapts the body and helps them to recover. It helps them to sleep that evening. So, and that's a big part of our recovery. Believe it or not, sleep is one of the more important recovery strategies. Well, you know, we're hearing that more and more, how important sleep is in terms of optimizing performance. And it's probably the cheapest and the most effective form of recovery. There you go. For those of us who work out in the listening audience, I'm going to ask you, Dave, what is the best thing that you can do in terms of lifting to get not just more muscle mass, but what every guy wants, that cut look.

This is not part of our show, by the way. This is just for you. Yeah. This is just for me. Okay. Everyone in our control room right now is like, where's that question? Where was that question? I'm asking you, Dave.

Help me out, man. Where was that question? I'm asking you, Dave. Help me out, man. Yeah, it's funny. People always say, what do I do to get tone? I don't want to lose weight. I just want to get tone. I want to gain muscle tone. But that's what they're saying. What they mean is I want my six-pack to show better. Well, that just means you've got to eat better. There's no magic bullet. I mean there's all the infomercials you see about pills and different programs and all these things, these DVDs you can get of people jumping and doing push-ups and all that stuff works. people jumping and doing push-ups and all that stuff works. Of course, they don't show you all the people that haven't been successful with that program. That's called

the survivorship bias. They only look at the winners. They don't pay attention to the million losers. That's why they have that small results may vary. There's no magic bullet. I think the biggest thing is to develop better habits. That's what it is because it's about consistency. Diets don't work for...

The reason why diets don't work is eventually you come off of it. If you don't come off the diet, it's not a diet anymore. It's a lifestyle change. I have a theory on that, is that you've got to choose your parents better. You've got to choose your parents better? Yeah.

Why did I know that was coming? Why did I know that was coming? There you go. So you know what? You bring up a really great point, and you hear a guy say in the gym, like, that guy hit the DNA lottery. You know, like, he's just got great genetics. I mean, is that really the case? And do you see that when you're looking at athletes?

Because, I mean, at your level, all these guys are elite. So is it really a matter of genetics when you look at these guys because they're all in the 0.00001 percent well exactly right or else they wouldn't be here right so that's what you know the the sort of the uh the growth in in sports science and monitoring is to be able to get that last bit of advantage right everybody at this level is elite so how do you get that one percent two percent gain and what what we're charged with right so um that doesn't mean that the principles of nutrition and training doesn't apply to to the general public it does. It's just that we've got the

technology and the resources to be able to monitor and track and, and make needed, but it's all, you know, they're still human beings, right? They still are governed by the same laws of, of physics and chemistry and science. Right. So, uh, it's just that, and I think, like I said, it goes back to habits. So, I mean, if you're talking about wanting to build muscle or get in better shape or lose fat, I mean, it just, it's getting rid of fine foods, drink more water, eat more vegetables, get some exercise and get some sleep. I mean, it's really, I hate to say it, but that's, you know, I'm sure there's maybe one or two other things in there, but it's pretty simple. It's just a matter of doing it.

And that starts with developing good habits and keeping those habits. Well, now I feel doomed. Thank you very much. Don't worry. Guys, don't worry about that. He'll get over it. I'm joking. What's the, I have a question, I have a thought. What's the one thing that's really taken your part of the Dolphins football club forward

in the last two years, three years, four years, in terms of science? Has there been one thing that you said, now that's changed our game? GPS, I would say.

Yeah, the tracking that we spoke about earlier. Player tracking. Measure what the players are doing physically. A lot of what we try to do in terms of advising coaches on practice sessions. Have they done too much? Have they done too little? Because on either end of that spectrum, you'll have injuries or poor performance.

We try to look at the performance aspect rather than the injury because we believe if we improve your performance we're going to decrease your injury so rather than harping on the negative injury side of it we want to strengthen the performance side and there's a better buy-in from coaches and athletes if they feel that we are charged with improving rather than this guy that's always beating them oh don't train too hard you're going to get injured oh be careful you're going to get injured players and, be careful, you're going to get injured. Players and coaches are sick of that message. They want performance. So now with that in mind, why don't you tell us about, we know that you did some partnership with Kittman Labs in Silicon Valley, just on that very thing, about increasing performance as a means of preventing injury.

So can you talk about that for a second? Certainly. It was one of several initiatives that we brought in at the beginning of last season, where the idea was that we wanted to track various what we call internal load measurements in players, their range of motion, which was the kitman. If over the course of from week to week that they were losing range in their hips in their shoulders in their ankles and from that we could then rather than waiting for the injury to occur we could see that this pattern this player is getting beaten up he's getting stiffer

he's losing range within the hip if we allow that to continue then the thought to us that that player is going to expose himself to injury and rather than waiting for that to actually happen, we can then get him into the weight room with Dave, do some stretches, whatever was necessary to make sure that we restore that range of motion within that joint. So those are very useful tools. The challenge within the sport, as Dave mentioned, the sheer numbers, is trying to get these players in and get them screened and get them tested so you know those are challenges and that's where Kittman Labs is you know one of the tools that we've decided to go for because of the relatively easy way in which you could screen a large number of players without taking laboratory times and

spending a whole afternoon trying to get through your team wow that's super cool stuff well it sounds hey listen continued success uh you guys uh i i know that the team did a lot better this year uh so you know which is fantastic and uh we're looking forward to uh even greater things from you in the future and now when now when I watch the team on Sunday, I can basically say like, yeah, I know why that guy is doing what he's doing. He's performing well because of Wayne and Dave. So good luck, man.

Thanks so much for being here. Thanks, guys. The pleasure's ours. Thank you to Wayne Diesel and Dave Palooka there from the Miami Dolphins. That's it, Chuck. I know. For today's show. That has flown by.

It's been such a fascinating, fascinating show. Really very fascinating. And here we do it again. I'm Gary O'Reilly. I'm Chuck Nice. And this has been Playing With Science. Hope you enjoyed the show. We look forward to your company very, very soon.