StarTalk Radio - #ICYMI: Planet Soccer: Science and Technology

Episode Date: December 14, 2017

This week, former British footballer Gary O’Reilly shows Chuck Nice around his old stomping grounds, the soccer pitch. Helping him investigate the science and tech that’s transforming the game are NY Cosmos Assistant Coach Alecko Eskandarian and astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson. (Adult Language)Don’t miss an episode of Playing with Science. Subscribe to our channels on:TuneIn: tunein.com/playingwithscienceApple Podcasts: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/playing-with-science/id1198280360GooglePlay Music: https://play.google.com/music/listen?u=0#/ps/Iimke5bwpoh2nb25swchmw6kzjqSoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/startalk_playing-with-scienceStitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/startalk/playing-with-scienceNOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free. https://www.startalkradio.net/all-access/planet-soccer-science-and-technology/ Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to new episodes ad-free and a whole week early.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm Gary O'Reilly. And I'm Chuck Knight. And this is Playing With Science. Today, we focus our steely gaze onto planet soccer and illuminate the science and technology, and in particular, the new tech that has come into play and might well be over the horizon in the coming years and who better to bring forward the

science and check if the tech is up to snuff than our very own personal astrophysicist dr neil de Neil deGrasse Tyson. Yes. Just to be clear, like most Americans, I'm less fluent in soccer than I am with other sports. So my role in this conversation will be as someone who is fluent in physics. Well, that's why you're here, Neil.

Okay, thanks. But I'm deflecting all soccer questions, specific soccer questions, to our other guests. And speaking of that other guest, we have with us, loading up the professional viewpoint, former U.S. men's national team player and coach at the New York Cosmos, Aleko Eskandarian. Yes.

Thank you, guys. Thank you. Thanks for being here, man. My pleasure. And Aleko, let me compliment you on working for a team that has the name Cosmos. Just want to say. I figured you would like that. Aleko's got an interesting history.

His father played for the New York Cosmos. Back in the day with Pele, Naskins, Beckenbauer, who I will bow down on my knees in front of football royalty. They are the gods of the game. So envious of your father, Alekko.

And Alekko is now working also with Major League Soccer. So he's got quite an important role to play in the future of the game. What you're saying is Alekko is the flunky of the family. Oh, nice. In some ways, yes. You're saying that because you know that he's going to have to punch me to get to you. I've got my distance. Yeah, thanks a lot.

The configuration on stage here. Okay. I'm insulated. Continuing with the Celestial theme, we'll take Aleko back to his days at the LA Galaxy. Oh, thank you. And one David Beckham. Everybody in this room one David Beckham. Everybody in this room knows David Beckham.

Everybody outside of this room. He played for the Galaxy, right? Yeah. So we have the cosmos and the galaxy. Yeah. Whoa, I'm in the right place. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

You see? Oh, thank you. You see? It's all coming together. No Red Bull here or whatever. No, no, no. See, you know far more soccer than you're letting off. Apparently.

Right. So for those of us who are familiar with David Beckham, we know kind of the backstory, but there's one in the room here who knows exactly what it's like to play, to train, to work with. Gary, why do you have to embarrass me? Because that's just the way I am. All right, but we'll get to Aleko.

You didn't talk about Joy. We'll get to Aleko soon enough.'ll get to a lecco soon enough but chuck should we we set up a clip yeah speaking of um uh beckham and bending it like beckham it was very cool to go back and find a clip of his um his first goal with the galaxy which was on a free kick. Yeah. And I think a wall of six players in front of him, and he actually did his signature bend it like Beckham. Was it signature yet? Yeah, at this point, it was definitely his signature. He put his pen with him.

Yeah. Definitely his signature. So why don't we take a listen to that? Yeah. He's got about six people in the wall covering the near side, Troy Perkins does. Kenny Bender. Beckham. It's in the net.

It's in the net. Do you believe it? Beckham can bend it. So anyone in here who doesn't know, that's almost 99.9% certain it's a right-footed, inside of the right boot, free kick, going to go curl right to left. But that's as much of the science as I know. Yeah, and I've got to tell you, when you look at that goal, it's exactly what you know. And anybody who doesn't know, we have two professional soccer players here today because Gary O'Reilly is also a former soccer or footballer because he played in a crystal palace and

Tottenham, right? Yes. And Tottenham, Tottenham is very abbreviated. Somehow it doesn't sound so glamorous. You don't get to pronounce the British stuff. You don't want me doing that.

But, yeah, so we have two professional soccer players here, and that is why Gary was able to point out the fact that just by listening that he could tell you exactly how that ball, which I watched the play. That is exactly how. But what was so, I don't know, just stunning about it is the amount of curve that he was able to put on the ball. I mean, if this were Major League Baseball, he would have immediately been ejected from the game.

That's how much curve was on the soccer ball. An illegal amount of curve. Yes. Putting Vaseline on the ball. Can you bring the science to what Beckham is doing and able to achieve that? Well, what's curious, I'm curious about a couple of things. To curve a ball is just to spin it while it's airborne.

Yeah. So, of course, you want to be accurate, precise as you do this. So you need to know what you're doing, know how to aim it, know how much to curve it, know not to kick it too slow or too fast because all of these factors influence how far it will go and how much it will curve. of these factors influence how far it will go and how much it will curve so presumably he's done a lot of homework that is in the case of an elite athlete a lot of practicing on exactly what that kick would do now what got me is here's the goalie standing in the middle of the goal and watches the ball just sail off to his right into the net almost like a tennis ace, where he's not even diving for it. He was taken completely off.

And what makes the curve, so I don't want to speak for the pros here, but if the ball is curving, it means you think it's coming towards you, but it's not. So you're ready to sort of extend your arms to punch it out of the way, but then it just sails to your right. And you're taken completely off guard.

And I just thought by now all goalies would just huddle in the right side of the goal. That's when you aim to the left. Then aim to the left, maybe. So what happens, if you kick it with a spin, sort of there's something in physics called the right hand rule. The right hand rule. Yes, it is. The right hand rule. It's not what you're thinking, Chuck.

Okay. I hope you're taking notes. See, Neil knows me too well. No, Chuck. Yes. So the right hand rule is if you use your right hand and you curl your fingers in the direction the thing is spinning. Okay.

Okay. And then your thumb points to the north pole of that object. Okay? Okay. So north poles are uniquely unambiguously definable in space and across the universe and in all of physics. Okay. So if you kick the ball in such a way that it is spinning with your right hand rule,

with your thumb up, okay, Then the aerodynamics on the ball, because the right side of the ball is not going against the air, and the left side of the ball is moving with the air as it goes through, okay? So the forces are going to be different on each side of the ball for that simple reason. Now, it turns out there's something called a Magnus effect, which is a lot written about it. And so at the risk of making this more complicated than necessary.

No, please do. Chuck. Yes. You want to roll. Go for it. I mean, throw in a little calculus while you're at it. OK. So if the texture on the ball, if the ball's surface

is not perfectly smooth, then what will happen is the texture on the ball will break up the airflow along the surface of the ball in such a way that it will reduce what would otherwise be sort of a partial vacuum there. It will reduce that. All right. Now, you lost me because. So therefore creating slightly more resistance. there. We'll reduce that. Okay? Alright, now you lost me because... So therefore creating slightly more resistance. Exactly, so watch what happens. So all balls that we play with... Okay. Alright.

Professionally. You got me back. Professionally have some kind of texture on them. Be they golf balls or basketball. Or wrinkles, go ahead. Or they all have some kind of texture. So, be they golf balls or basketball. Or wrinkles, go ahead. Or any, they all have some kind of texture. So when they spin, they will break up what would otherwise be a very smooth flow around the contact edge between the air and the ball.

Got you. So now, so watch what happens. So you break this up on the part that's spinning into the wind. Okay? It breaks it up very effectively. The side that's spinning back towards you with the wind has a lower air speed against the wind. There you go. Doesn't break it up as much.

So the disruption actually reduces the air speed on the back side. Yes. Okay. And that. And that gives you. No. And that... And that gives you... No, so that... No, on the back side, that gives you less disruption,

more vacuum, essentially more of a pulling force. Yeah, exactly. That's what I was going to say. So on that side, it's... It's actually pulling, and on the other side... It's pushing.

So once you spin the ball... Gotcha. Then there's an air force that will push on the ball at right angles to its motion at all times. Okay, cool. Okay, so as it curves, it just keeps curving. Right, gotcha. It'll just keep curving. Yeah, because that never changes.

It's never changing. That rotation never changes. That rotation is whatever. So as the direction changes, so does the direction that it's going. So that's why when you see these curves, it's like it keeps going. Right. It keeps curving. Right.

And he's like, whoa. That's cool. And so that ball that we saw that we didn't see it, we heard. This is radio. This is radio. Power of imagination. But let's just say we were in an abyss where there is atmosphere. That ball would just keep curving no matter what.

Except gravity is pulling it to the ground. Right. So it would have curved in a court. It would likely hit the ground before it comes around and hits you back in your face. Right. Okay, so Aleko, if you knew all of this before you ever bent a ball, would you have bothered? Or would you have said? And I got a question to put on top

of that. Go on then. It's his physics. Why is he the only one that anyone talks about bending the ball? See, that's a good point because in my opinion, everyone curves the ball, right? Of course. Obviously with Dave Beckman, he's not the only one in the world. There's plenty of

talented free kick specialists who aren't as noticeable or famous as, as David is, but it's handsome or better looking. Yeah. Which is probably the case. That's really what it is.

Except for maybe a spice girl element in there as well. But moving on. Yeah. Married one. Excuse me. I didn't know. You're looking at me like I should know that. I know.

I'm an astrophysicist people. You should know that. Well, she's a star. Okay. But I think a lot of it is the shape of your foot too because oh you know for me for example i have a very powerful shot and when i play if you say so yourself yeah yeah well i was powerful i mean the ball moves fast yeah yeah i was able to generate more power on my shot than than any player in the league when

i was playing nice but i think a big part of that is I have a very wide foot. Very, very wide. So I feel like I had a, I don't have facts to back this up, but I feel like I have a base that my sweet spot is maybe bigger than someone else's. Interesting. Whereas with David, I don't know the shape of his foot.

Just to be clear, just to clarify that. So you could have a sweet spot, but if your sweet spot doesn't hit the ball sweet spot, it's not going anywhere. So if you have a wide sweet spot, your margin of error is larger. So if you're running and the ball's moving and someone is bumping into you, you will have a higher likelihood of making a powerful kick under stress. So now are you saying your powerful kick comes from, and tell me the difference, please, from, I'm sorry, let me say it again. Is your powerful kick a free kick or is that a powerful kick while you're in motion? Both.

Or is it both? I mean, it's not just the shape of my foot, obviously. Of course, I know. There'd be a whole lot of ratios between quadriceps, hamstrings, glutes that come in and the length of the lever. Sometimes, did you have a long back lift or a short back lift? What's a back lift? Very short. So when you go to kick, the motion of the heel backwards from the ball.

Sometimes you find guys… I had a very quick release, which made it difficult for the goalkeeper. Which is quite strange because I played with one guy at Tottenham whose backlift was minimal and the power that he imparts into the ball is like whoa yeah and you know it's also got to be confusing for a goalie too exactly because the reaction time for the goalkeeper is that much less it's like a pitcher and the ready to wind up to hit to kick it and you don't wind up and you kick it and it goes faster than they would have joined right exactly less time for the goalkeeper to react. So now, because I've never played soccer, all right, here's what I want to know.

You talked about, you know, the part of your foot that you kick it with. You had it surgically altered. But it looks as though when you see guys, you know, I do watch soccer, a lot of times it looks like they're kicking it with the side of their foot. They're in step.

They're in step as opposed to the top of their foot. So what happens, and both of you can answer this for me, what is the difference when you kick with the top of your foot as opposed to your in step? Okay, so the thing that Neil was saying about how, you know, you've got a guy barging you, you've got someone running you down, or you've got a narrow opportunity where you see the goal aleko will talk to this because you're a striker right absolutely you are in tune

an intuitive balance you know you need to dial up a certain technique so go through the techniques that you would use and the different parts of the foot you would use to execute yeah absolutely during a match or during the flow of a game, there's different techniques that you're going to implement depending on what you want to achieve out of it. So if it's a long pass, I obviously can't use the inside of my foot to get a ball from here, 40 yards down in the air. So it's a different technique. I'm going to use my instep to get underneath the ball, get get some more distance on it more power on it it'll probably be backspin on it as well um whereas if i'm going to take a shot i want to power right through it i want to keep it low i'm not even worried about um i'm more more concerned

about keeping it low and on frame because i have a target um if i have a barrier in front of me so if that camera is in front of me and i have a teammate that's making a run behind, I have to now decide, okay, which way is that defender going to be moving? Which way do I want to curve it around him to be in the path of my teammate? So if my teammate's running this way. Left, right.

Left to right. Across your team. And I want to play a ball in front of him, but there's a barrier in the way, I'm going to want to curve it maybe with the outside of my foot so it gets around the him, but there's a barrier in the way. I'm going to want to curve it maybe with the outside of my foot. So it gets around the barrier, but still will come back in his path. So it's not too different than basketball.

When you see LeBron James, sometimes he even puts spins on his bounce pass. Exactly, on his bounce pass. So Jason Kidd was the guy that was phenomenal at that but an important point here the basketball generally is not traveling fast enough through the air for this effect to matter yes in its airborne trajectory right whereas in soccer a kick goes 50 miles an hour and so it turns out what i did what i should have left what i should have exited that bit about was, here are the things that matter for how much it's going to curve.

What does the ball weigh? What is the density of the air that you're playing in? And one of the World Cups, there were different games at different, one was at sea level, one was at higher altitude. Was that in South Africa? When was that, 2010? 2010.

So the thinner air, sensibly, will have less effect on pushing the ball than thicker air will. Right. Because it's the air that's pushing the ball.

So it's the thickness of the air, the air pressure, the weight of the ball, how fast you kick the ball. Gotcha. And also, how long the ball

stays airborne because then it has more time to curve. Right. So if you keep the ball low, it's going to drop to the ground before it does what it's supposed to do. Before it does anything interesting. And part of the curving is not just to fool the goalie

at the risk of stating the obvious. You have a wall standing in front of you. Right. And how far away are they, you? 10 yards. They're 10 yards. Allegedly. We got spray now. We got spray now for that. they, you? 10 yards. They're 10 yards. Allegedly. We got spray now.

We got spray now for that. I never see a line there. I don't know. So I looked at the angles on that, and they try to cut off your angle to the goal by where they stand. And if you can curve it, where they stand is irrelevant. Gotcha.

You just put it around them. They'll jump. There's all different ways. But they jump, you work out, they jump, you stick it underneath them. But they're not going to jump sideways. They're going to jump up. No.. But they jump, you work out, they jump, you stick it underneath them. But that could jump sideways. They could jump up. No.

But the other thing is you take a… I just want to put that down. When you strike a ball to get some curvature on it, it depends how much, and Aleko can testify to this, how much of the ball you actually meet with the instep on your foot. If you want to curve it a little bit or a lot, if you're going for power. Anyway, look, we're going to take a break. All right.

And, you know, when we come back, I'm so glad that you brought this up because I actually have some balls that I actually went to a store and bought. Thank you for clarifying. To clarify, just okay. And I want you guys to take a look at them and then maybe break down just a little bit more of what we're talking about in terms of how these balls might react. Yeah. in terms of how these balls might react. Yeah, so what Chuck's saying is we've got a range of balls, including the brand new Telstar 18 that will be played with in Russia in the World Cup next year.

You always have to translate what Chuck says. No, because I don't know how many of our audience have actually seen that ball. It's a brand new ball. It was only released last week, so this is a first look for all of us. I went out and bought some balls. He was looking for more detail, I think, on that. Soccer balls, different styles.

And the styles change for every World Cup. And you know what? That's really all I had to say was, I went and got some soccer balls. Okay. We're going to take a break. All right. See you shortly.

See you shortly. welcome back to playing with science where we today look at the beautiful game soccer football call it what you wish and the science the technology the technology of now and in parts to come technology that will be available and coming to a game near you very soon right aleko you have the brand new telstar 18 ball in your hands galaxy and now telstar america's first communication satellite but this is telstar 18 okay that's fine by now we would have no the original Telstar Adidas Telstar ball was for Mexico 1970. The black and white hexagons, the classic that we all have in our mind. So this is the new version they're in.

What do you notice? Don't tell me it's round. Otherwise I'll get upset with you. No, it's definitely a different contour when you feel it. I've never felt a ball like this. Actually, I'm not curious to see how it would. All right. So Neil, I'm going to give you this one, which've never felt a ball like this, actually. I'm curious to see how it would move. All right. So, Neil, I'm going to give you this one,

which is another Adidas ball. For those of you listening in black and white, it's green and black. Right. That was good, Gary. Thank you kindly. Very good. What do you first notice are tactile

when you pick and hold that ball? Well, this is the, I'm holding the ball that's sort of most familiar to people. It's a combination of hexagons and an intermittent pentagon to finish out the stitching. And so if you see this, you would obviously just say that's a soccer ball

here in America. Other stitchings, you'd wonder what game is that for? So the surface of this, because of the stitching, it is part of the surface, the contouring of the ball that enables it to break up the air that goes across it. And without the stitching, by the way, if the ball were perfectly smooth, here's the kicker.

No pun intended. It was intended. If a ball were perfectly smooth without disrupting the boundary layer of air, the Magnus effect changes mathematical sign and the ball curves in the opposite direction. Ah. So this is a smooth surface.

This is smooth, but the stitching here is enough to, but it would, because the surface is smooth, it would reduce the Magnus effect by a corresponding amount compared with a similar ball that has a modeled surface, for example. Okay. So back in 2010, excuse me, in South Africa, we had the Jubilani ball, which was hated by goalkeepers, loved by strikers like Aleko, because it became at a certain speed, a knuckleball effect. So it would do all sorts of stuff that nobody quite could define. And it was more, the surface was smoother. Now I'm going to give you this Telstar 18, which you will covet

because of its name. I know we're going to swap this over. We're swapping. So just, just tell me. Okay. So just a point about the, your smooth ball. So, so what happens there is if you kick the ball, basically without spin. So a knuckleball in baseball is a ball thrown without spin. And when it does not have a spin, then it's no longer spin stabilized. And what that means is it is at the mercy of any gust of wind that blows by. And in the case of a soccer ball, yes, that's also the case. But unlike a baseball, soccer balls have valves which change the center of mass of the ball. And so I bet some kickers are aware of this and will place the ball relative to where the air valve is.

Yeah, they do. Because that's an asymmetric point of the ball. So in a knuckleball, the ball, sorry, in a non-spinning soccer kick knuckleball equivalent. It's still a knuckleball in soccer too. Oh yeah, yeahball equivalent. It's still a knuckleball in soccer too. It's still a knuckleball. You're in safe ground. Even though it's not your knuckles that are doing it. Toe knuckles.

So what's happening is the ball will move according to its own center of mass, but the structure of the ball is not centered on its center of mass because there's a little more mass to one side than the other. Oh, okay, gotcha, because it's asymmetric. It's asymmetric, right? Gotcha.

So in other words, the ball will sort of wobble, in a sense, even though it is keeping its own center of mass on a straight line. Right. Okay, because that's how the physics works. But because the ball itself is not even, it'll wobble as it goes through the air. her mass on a straight line. Right. Okay. Cause that's how the physics works. But the side, because the ball itself is not even it'll, it'll wobble as it goes through the air. And so that'll mess with a goalie for sure.

So those of you familiar with the Cristiano Ronaldo free kick that goes up, down, left, right, all in the same breath, what he's doing is playing with the science pun intended, by the way, me saying that is he will kick through the aperture that's on the ball.

The defamation. Am I right? Sure. Is then what through the aperture that's on the ball. The deformation, am I right? Sure. Is then what plays, and that's what goalkeepers are sitting there looking. That's why you see frozen goalkeepers quite often thinking, well, it's the roll of a dice. If I dive left, right, or stand still, whatever happens. And you could see as soon as they pick up the ball,

they're looking for that little nozzle, and then that's when they're putting it down. So now I predict, based on this ball, this is a stunning ball, by the way. This, okay. The stitching is, it has more stitching than your classical hexagon pentagon ball. Although it's only got six panels. I don't care.

No, it's, forget the panels. I'm talking about how many places is there stitching where a perfect sphere dimples because they're stitching there. There's way more stitching that I can see on this ball, way more segments that are surrounded by this. And the surface is not smooth. It's textured. Oh, my gosh.

You want to talk about bending it like Beckham, this is a bendable ball. I predict in the next tournament that features this ball, the ball is going to look like a wiffle ball in a hurricane. Oh no. Wow. Bad day to be a goalkeeper. Once again,

this ball is a goalkeeper's nightmare. This will be a goalkeeper's nightmare for sure. But unless the kickers have time to practice their normal spin that they put, that they've trained that would aim and land in a particular place, could go completely wild on them. And that's the thing with the Jubilani ball that you mentioned. There were a lot of shots that were going 20 yards over the goal just because it was difficult for players to understand. It didn't get the curve that they wanted. Not always. Sometimes it would.

The curve, bending left and right, depending on your left-footeded or right footed or on what side of the ball you kick it, that's sideways bending. You can bend it top and down. With it, it has a backspin or a topspin. So a topspin, it'll dive quickly. A backspin, it'll sustain its trajectory longer than what your brain sense tells you gravity should do. So it's not really rising.

Like the right, well, yeah, correct. It's not, it's, that's it. So it's not really rising. Well, yeah, correct. It's not. That's it. It's falling less. In baseball, just to use my American analogies here. Do it. There's a murk, Jack. I'm hearing.

The rising fastball that people talk about, if you look at the side analysis of it, it actually doesn't rise at all. It just doesn't fall as fast as your brain thinks it should. So you feel as the batter like it's rising. And so the same would be true with the soccer ball. So I will look forward to what kind of soccer is played with that.

That'll be a fan favorite ball for sure. It's loaded to the strikers. And you as a striker, how long will it take you or you think some of the World Cup stars to learn how to work that ball out? Where the sweet spot is, where they want to work it,

how they're going to pass it, distance, 30 yards, 20 yards, 10 yards, and strike a goal. How long do you think it'll take? Not too long. They're good. I would say, yeah. In your day, you know.

Days, weeks, years, never. Never. Choose the applicable out of that list. No, within a couple training sessions is usually all it takes.

That's why you see teams try to get these balls in. You know, if you're going to play a match and you're going to play with a ball that's different than the one

you train with, a team will always try to request at least two days before the match. Particularly if it's deflated, you know, you can't. The thing is, if this ball, if you go to hit it for distance, say 60 yards, 50 yards plus, and this ball starts to change its flight path and become unpredictable, teams will change the way they play. They will not play longer diagonal passes. The game will become shorter and therefore quicker. They will adapt to the ball because, by the way, the ball won't be changing.

They'll have to change their style to accommodate what that does. And is that the roughest textured ball you've ever touched? It might be. The roughest I've ever seen. Yeah. It feels like what we acknowledge, not quite like the dimpling on a basketball, but it's a… No, it's like ridges.

It's got a texture. I don't know how else to say it. It's rougher, though, than a soccer ball normally is. See, the Brazuca had a texture to it as well, but it had a wavy kind of pattern. If you get this up close, you will see it's got that texture to it,

but it is linear. There's no wave in the pattern, so that must... There's no way, because these balls get tested at NASA. There's no way they put pattern. So that must, there's no way, because these balls get tested at NASA. There's no way they put that, oh, we'll just go straight this year and we'll don't worry. It's a fashion thing.

Well, I'll tell you this. Wait, is this really tested at NASA? Absolutely, yeah. They're tested at Ames. Yeah, wind tunnels and things. Yeah. We got this. Okay.

I was just going to say, I might find a better use for my tax dollars than testing them. I think Adidas will have, FIFA will find a better use for my tax dollars than testing me. I think Adidas will have, FIFA will have paid for this. Oh, good hands. Now that I'm looking more closely at this, there are two parallel panels. There's one panel. Like a stripe. The stripes that go around its equator and above the pole and another one around the pole.

So separated by 90 degrees. And in there are eight triangles. So I'm curious if the kickers will be able to find a way to spin the ball such that the parallel panels are operating against the air rather than some other dimension on this. So I'm telling you now, you're a coach? I was, I was. Oh, not anymore. Oh, okay. Okay.

But don't worry, the secret's going to come out. I'm just telling you. I'm going to go back to playing after all this information. I'm telling you that if the ball spins along with these parallel panels, it will curve differently than if it is not. I'm just telling you that right now. The guys are going to work this out. So, and if you're going to knuckleball it uh

watch out where the valve is and then make that work to your advantage so very cool i can't wait to watch real real folks play so we have a fan we're looking forward to an exciting world i can't wait all right so now wait before we go any further okay what do you i got and this is what i want neil to talk to and then we're going to get off of balls um you say that now um so i went i have another uh playground and this is would be commonly known as a kickball or a dodgeball and everybody in elementary school knows like you know first of all listen to the sound okay then secondly, it's like super light. And I don't care how you kick this ball. It just kind of floats.

So what's the difference? It's lighter. And that's it? Moving on. That's it? No, it's not. Okay. It's larger? No, it's maybe. Okay. It's, it's, it's larger.

No, it's maybe a little lighter. Yeah. It's okay. So here's, here's my analysis. So the outer, is it generally leather of some kind of animal? What kind of animal? No, it's a synthetic product now rather than leather. Right.

It used to be leather, but now it's synthetic. Skin of some dead animal. No, it's synthetic. It's all synthetic. It's because the, what you're calling seams, but now it's synthetic. Skin of some dead animal. No, it's synthetic. It's all synthetic. Because what you're calling seams, they're all heat sealed. Okay. Okay. And so, all right, so we got that. So this leather texture on top of whatever is beneath it, which has a certain thickness to it, that's actually absorbing some of the energy that you kick into this. So when you kick a soccer ball, it is not in physics what we call as elastic a collision

as it would an encounter as you would if you kick a pure rubber ball. So in other words, if you had a mechanical foot and kicked a soccer ball and then kicked one of your playground balls, the playground will just go further. Because the energy that you put into it is recovered in its velocity. Whereas you kick a soccer ball, the energy that you put into it is recovered in its velocity. Whereas you kick a soccer ball, the energy that you put into it, some of it goes to the speed, others will get absorbed into the texture of the ball itself. And that's, that's the difference between a baseball, for example, and a Spalding handball. All right. If you drop a baseball and a, you know, one will

bounce high, the other won't. And the best thing we ever invented happened in my generation. I'll take credit for this, my generation. Okay. Was we invented the Super Bowl. The Super Bowl. The Super Bowl. The Super Bowl. That hard rubber ball that you drop and then it bling.

Yeah, so it will bounce higher than any other sort of commercial ball that is made. And before we had the Super Bowl, there was the movie, remember the son, Flubber? Yes, we do, Flubber, yes. I wanted to be that professor inventing that product. It's nice to have a dream. When I was a kid. Even Neil deGrasse Tyson has a dream.

And who knew it was about Flubber? Let's just drop these and see. I'll drop them at the same time, the same distance, and just see. Yeah, so the playground ball bounced higher. The playground ball is continuing to bounce. All that means is that the energy you put in it is completely translated into

speed and rather than absorbed into the structure of the ball itself. Okay, before we take a break Aleko, your favorite bit of technology that's come into the game since you became a coach after you finished playing which would then affect your management of the yeah yeah yeah gps for sure remodels yeah heat tracking wait wait where the player's going

this isn't during the game this is hey dude my gps said you should be in the stadium as a coach if you can measure how hard someone's working, that just gives you added incentive to yell or not yell. Well, I love the data they now have on how far they've run in a game. Is that also a GPS thing? Yeah. Okay, I love that. Between heart rate monitors and GPS, you're able to at least monitor

how hard someone's working. You can use that here in the U.S. In MLS, you use that in-game. Yeah, yeah. MLS, Major League Soccer. Major League Soccer, yes. So in European leagues, you're not allowed to use that here in the US. In MLS, you use that in-game. Yeah, yeah. MLS is Major League Soccer. Major League Soccer, yes. So in European leagues, you're not allowed to use that because if I think my centre midfield player,

we always pick on them, isn't working as hard and that's detrimental to my game plan, I can see on the data that that's the case. My eyes might be telling me one thing, but the data confirms that or denies that. So that's something that's an added bonus here in the US that we don't have in other European leagues. Why don't you have it elsewhere? I think they want to take away the fact that you could have really accurate-

They're anti-technology. They have it. No, no, they're not anti-technology. I just think they're not keen to use it in game, but I think it will be coming. So suppose I'm just a really efficient player. Exactly. You can't measure IQ. Just because my heart rate isn't going up.

Exactly. I'm working just as hard as anybody else. I just make it look-y. And I know in advance where the wall's going to come. I don't have to chase it down. It comes by. I'm there when it got to me. And there's evidence of guys working too hard. Hey, I don't need you running this down. Exactly. I'm there when it comes by. I'm there when it got to me. And there's evidence of guys working too hard.

Hey, I don't need you running this much for no reason without thinking. So there's a fine balance. That's where soccer IQ comes into play, where you can't just base it all on numbers. It's more of reaffirmation of what you're already thinking. Soccer IQ, that's sick. I like that. Yeah, so with soccer IQ, we will take a break,

and we'll all be doing questionnaires and during the break we'll come back and see which which one of us doesn't have the best soccer iq and i'm holding my hand up right now right we'll take that short break this is playing with science and we'll be back shortly and we might have a special visitor by the sounds of it yes welcome back so playing with science we're enjoying and exploring science and technology Welcome back to Playing With Science. We're enjoying and exploring science and technology in the beautiful game. So, Neil, you've got a question burning inside of you. Totally burning.

Yes. Go for it. What's up with you people to reinvent the ball every four years? What does that even mean? Actually, that's a very good question. I have the answer, but I'm going to let go of this. They've been playing football for a very long time. I've never heard anybody go, hey, we're going with Nerf this year.

Nerf ball. Yeah, yeah, American football, right. Right, or baseball, just, hey, let's come up with some other shape. We need more stitches on this ball. Yeah, that would be crazy in any other sport. Why is it just the thing you guys do? I don't know. I don't know the exact answer, but I think things are always improving.

You look at jerseys, for example. Jerseys 20 years ago aren't the same as they are now. And with the ball as well, I think there are minor improvements that are made. They just look like random, somebody just dreamt it one night. I don't know that they're improvements. They look more like changes than improvements.

Anyone else want to sing along with me? Must be the money. All right. every four years we got some commercial guy in the front rows going i got you you know what gary you are absolutely right and here's why i just went shopping for soccer balls and i can't tell you the wall of different soccer balls that I had to navigate in order to figure. So now it's like buying Jell-O in the store. Yes. Every flavor. Yeah.

And so there was the Messe ball. Yeah. There was a World Cup training soccer ball. And there was the, oh, I forget the other one that's, oh, gosh. It's an MLS ball, but it looks like Jubilani, but it's instead of like the four, it's only got like two little curvy panels. So you're absolutely right. It makes sense.

Okay, so you touched on jerseys. What about the future of jerseys? Where do you think it could go? Are we just talking about clothing here? Yes, uniforms, clothing, what a soccer player's uniform could be like in the future. So before we do that, because I'm uninitiated, how have jerseys changed? Okay, so go back many, many years and imagine me as a small child. We're still just talking about clothing here.

Yeah. I thought we were talking about sports. We're getting there. Clothing as in a soccer uniform. Heavy cotton. You sweat and run around, and it becomes three pounds heavier if you're lucky. Then you go through some basic...

By the way, that poundage was in your body to begin with. So you were carrying that weight around at the beginning of the game. But now it's on the outside. But in either case, you weighed that much before. I just want to be clear. That water didn't come from space, okay? When you walked out on the field at the beginning of the game, you said,

gee, I have this three pounds on me. Let me get rid of it. Notice it's raining. Unless it's raining, though. I just got detention, didn't I? I really just got detention. I'm just saying. You're just saying it right. Don't run around in sweaters and, oh, now I'm carrying around this heavy thing because it's wet. But the truth is, it feels icky. It's icky. It's icky.

It's the ick factor. So you go through nylon and synthetic fabrics, and now you get fabrics that breathe. Nylon is synthetic. Yes, I know. But then you get synthetic fabrics that are able to develop, and it breathes, so it wicks away the sweat that you once had inside that's now outside.

Did I say that right? Thank you. You're good. Moisture wicking. Yeah. So now, where are we headed? Where do you think jerseys will go? And we'll kind of sort of pick up some threads.

Well, I think right now we were talking a bit about the whole GPS and that whole piece at the moment, guys are wearing devices almost in like sports bras and they have it hooked up. If you watch a match right now, if you see guys who have almost a little device sticking out from like the back of their neck or their spine,

there are these little GPS devices and that's how how it's about the size of a small cell phone if you can imagine that now what they're saying now is you're going to get the the coming forward of intelligent fiber nanotechnology where all of that sort of cell phone size equipment that's stuck between your shoulder blades is going to be minimalized into the fabric also while you're watching your favorite team their uniform will change color imagine that they have a shirt sponsor right some of the most expensive real estate in the world would be at real madrid barcelona the big guys imagine if they could change as well oh they already have that and believe me that's going to happen not just in yeah the the sport that is most uniquely suited to have that happen is of course soccer um but uh you

what will happen is it's going to be like nascar so you know how on nascar you have all these different medallions on the car so the they'll have a band across the shirt and that band will change advertisements during the game yeah so and if you ever wondered what it's like to be leonel messi cristiano ronaldo alejo there'll be cameras in the jersey the fibers like fiber optics right they will be there now the tv companies and the clubs you don't put your shorts on inside out, buddy. No! So, this is now, as a viewer, as a fan… On the center field camera, what's that? So, you can imagine, as a fan…

Camera's pointing the wrong way. You can dial up which player and the cameras you want, or you might have other options where you can have Chuck to wear his shorts inside out. It just depends what you want to do. So you could be in the game by the technology of the jersey. Absolutely. Okay, fine. So now I see why we're talking about clothing.

Thank you. So will players embrace this? Probably not, to be honest with you. But do they have a choice? Do they have a choice? Well, when it comes to sponsors and all that stuff, probably not. But at the end of the day, as a player, you want to be as light as possible when you're out there and

oh these things i mean if you think about a camera on the side of the field or in the stadium very different this is fiber optic right but even even if it's two ounces players will use as an excuse so that's why i can make that run okay speaking of jerseys what's this thing where they run off the field and take off their shirt? Like, what is that? Oh, you want to score? If I looked like any of these guys, I'd be taking off my shirt in a frozen food section of the shop, right? Are you kidding me? What's up with that?

With trading jerseys, you mean? No, no. Oh, when you score. It means when you score a goal. Yeah, what's up with that? Oh, that's celebration. Yeah. That's you about to get a yellow card.

I am so desperate to get a yellow card, I will now run around with my shirt off. Is that a yellow card offense? Yeah, absolutely. Really? Yeah, that's a cheap way to get one. Okay. Really cheap way. Even if you look like Christian?

That's like the end zone dance. You're not supposed to do that in American football. See, but they changed that now. Now they've encouraged the end zone dance as long as it isn't taunting. Plus, it's only you. You can't get the whole kickline going, right?

Actually, you can now. They just changed that rule this year. Okay, so we got the telemetric data. And goals don't I'm sorry, but let me just say this. Goals do not happen a lot in soccer. Damn it. If a guy wants to take off his shirt, he should be able to take off. If he wants to wave his penis at the

crowd, he should be able to do it. How often do goals happen? That's crazy. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. Now I know why he wanted that camera inside the shirt.

Yeah. So soccer with a parental guide. So when we get to the telemetrics and we're going to have this layout in your jersey. I can't get that image out of my head now. Think harder. So, shouldn't be hard for you. So what are you looking for? What are the telemetrics that mean most to you as a coach

when you're reading it saying, hey, I like this? What really is the most important factors? Yeah, I mean, I think as a coach, the one thing we're talking about the future, injury prevention. That to me is the biggest thing. And that's where I see technology going. And that's what a lot of this data is used for. I know some of the top clubs in Europe,

they monitor down to the distance cover, the toll on the body. And that's what determines whether, hey, we got to give this guy a break next week. Do you have the red flag sort of thing? Yeah, he's got another three games in him at this toll on his body. And after that, it might break down.

And they decide when to take you out and when to put you back in the rotation. Soccer is so difficult because there's so many different variables. Because not any two games are alike. Because the score changes how much input you're putting out on the field. The conditions change. The surface changes. So if it's a grass field that doesn't hold the water well and it's raining, now after a game, you feel like you played two matches

even though you just played one. So there's a lot of different things that go into it, and I think collecting all this data will help prevent injuries. So when do the injury acting lessons, when are those given? Oh, flopping. Oh, did I? Gamesmanship. Gamesmanship. I love it. Okay, no given? Ah, flopping. Oh, did I? Gamesmanship. I love it.

Somebody had to go there. No, no, that's fine. So whoever has our Telstar 18, that has been constructed to benefit strikers. Therefore, FIFA, the world governing body, are looking to get advantage in, or at the feet, I should say, of the strikers. Now, they won't like the flopping aspect of it.

So if you flop dramatically and fail to get an Oscar, but should have got an Oscar, right? Flop means fall, feigning, injuring. Yeah, simulation, as it would be called. Don't be surprised if players get three game bans. Three game bans? Yeah, do it. Now you see how clever you are.

Just go draconian. Go very hard on it. I don't know what that means. I'm sorry. So he's saying that the league should, if people are flopping, then you get a three game suspension.

It's like, hey man. A three game band. Yes. Oh, I thought this was a new thing you wear on your wrist. Wrist band. A three game band.

No, no. A three game band. Thank you. So what's in place right now in our league, in MLS, is there's a disciplinary committee where they review all these plays of simulation embellishment, and there's a monetary fine. Simulation embellishment? Yeah.

I like that. You can't call it acting. Because there's a difference between. It's not acting. There's a big difference that most people that haven't played don't understand. There's a difference between selling a foul that you've been fouled right versus completely faking it and you haven't been touched and you're you know trying to fool so i guess they would use like what instant

replay because i think that's a little dangerous i mean if if if you were fouled even though you're selling that i mean if there was an offense, you should be able to have that credited. So they're magnifying the effect. Right. And that happens in every sport. I mean, I don't care what it is. Referees are human. Referees are human.

You see it happen all the time. So I'm just saying, like, how would you go about confirming that? By the way, with AI, we can fix that. Okay. What's that? Okay. Referees are human. We have ways.

Yeah. Everyone in here has heard of Google Specs, right? Google Specs, yes. Google Specs. No, I haven't. I'm sorry. Google Glass. Specs.

Google Glass. Google Glass. If the referee's view of an incident is obscured, imagine he's got this very clever eyewear on that dials up immediately, an instant replay, as you called it, Chuck, of that same instant from another angle that is very clear. Would you be happy with that?

You can't hide an offense. Absolutely. We're seeing the implementation of video review now, but that's where the game is headed is human error, whether it's the referee, the assistant referee, the linesman. That's the difference between winning and losing a game. So if you can help avoid errors made and and video can come into play i think everyone is is all for it as long as it's implemented properly because again they're still human operating uh that machinery

so but it reduces it it does it does but things are so subjective where you know if i see if there could you and i could be watching a game we've both played and there could be a a guy who goes down the box and i might say penalty you might say no it's not a penalty yeah so there's always going to be differing opinions but at least with video review um like you said it eliminates the the doubt could it be that unlike some sports such as baseball which is still using wood and leather and pine tar and it's one of the least touched sports by technology that soccer because you get a new ball every four years and the rules are just whatever anybody thinks up uh to make the ball harsh that you might be ripe for a complete

technological revolution in the sport that'd be cool i can ripe for a complete technological revolution in the sport. That'd be cool. I can't see a complete technological revolution. I mean, we now have goal line technology where the goal is inundated with camera angles. Sensors and things, okay. Camera angles that will have such high speed. I've read somewhere like 500 frames a second, which is like really compliant. That's blown my head, but that is definitive that's within about two or three millimeters accuracy okay so that that's happening that that's the hawkeye technology if you have that many frames

per second then each frame essentially stops the ball in midair yeah and at a lower frame rate it doesn't stop the ball the ball is. And if you're trying to decide whether something crossed the line or doesn't or didn't, and you have an image of a, if you have a blurred image of the ball, you cannot, you cannot adjudicate that with, with precision. So you need, you need high, you need a high frame rate. Thank you. No, no, no, no. That's, that's beautiful. Cause now I understand exactly why there's 500 frames a second and what the outcome is, because you need to know. In the early days of tennis, before we had high frame rate replays, and the ball in tennis is going 100, for men it's 130 miles an hour.

So the ball comes down, it bounces so fast, and they try to show that in slow motion, and the whole bounce is a blur. Everything is a blur. And you go, is it? I don't know. Can we? But without that, we would have never had John McEnroe. Come on! Yeah, so technology gets rid of a-hole behavior.

Aleko, is there something that you would like to see change in the game for positive? For both fans and for players? Or just for fans? Whichever way you want to work that yeah i think i think everyone that plays the game that watches the game they want to enjoy watching it so you can eliminate like we talked about the the diving or uh the bad calls the things that people get so infuriated with uh i would be all for that but at the same time i do i do enjoy the human aspect of it i do enjoy that there's going to be curveballs thrown your way

that you have to deal with in the course of a match. There are no timeouts. The game is flowing. Once they got rid of the, you know, they put in the no tie rule, how's that been going? Where you have the, you swap off kicks? Oh, shootout. Well, that's only in tournaments.

In league play, a tie is still a tie. So the reason I ask is because, of course, in hockey, they had a similar issue, low scoring games, tie games. They had the same thing. Then they invoked shootouts. Was that generally welcomed or not? So I think in soccer, and again, I grew up in a soccer family, so I'm probably a soccer purist. You appreciate a tie. I grew up in a soccer family, so I'm probably a soccer purist. You appreciate a tie.

If you're playing against a tough team on the road and you bunker down and you put in a solid effort to shut them down and they don't beat you, that's a well-deserved point. And that's why soccer is not as popular in America because we are like, you did not win. So the logic, do you know the way the coaches apply the logic? The best headline ever was when they ended the all-star game in a tie. And was it the New York post? They said, there's no tying in baseball. There's no tying in baseball. So the logic is we didn't lose the game. We lost the penalty shootout.

And that's how coaches put a positive spin to keep the morale of the team unit together. Well, penalty shootouts are a coin toss, to be honest with you. Well, no, there is science. But that's another show. That's a whole new show. Guys, that's it for us playing with science. Oh, really? Yes, and the science and technology.

Why do we talk so much? Let the man speak more. My fault. Now we can have him back. Exactly. Oh, because you're just across the moat. Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely. All right. So that's it. That's it for us. Thank you to our audience. It's been fabulous. Thank you, guys. Thank you to Aleko, Eskandarian, to Neil deGrasse Tyson, the good doctor Neil deGrasse Tyson,

of course, from Gary O'Reilly, myself, and Chuck Nice. This has been Playing With Science. We look forward to your company soon.