StarTalk Radio - #ICYMI - Season 3 Premiere: Big Game Special, w/Neil Tyson and New England Patriot Cameron Fleming

Episode Date: February 1, 2018

Are you ready for some football – and Season 3 of Playing with Science? In preparation for Sunday’s big game, Gary O’Reilly and Chuck Nice talk to Patriots Offensive Tackle Cameron Fleming, Neil deGrasse Tyson, and Kevin Krysiak, Wilson’s Director of Innovation, who explains the NFL’s “connected football.”Don’t miss an episode of Playing with Science. Subscribe to our channels on:TuneIn: tunein.com/playingwithscienceApple Podcasts: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/playing-with-science/id1198280360GooglePlay Music: https://play.google.com/music/listen?u=0#/ps/Iimke5bwpoh2nb25swchmw6kzjqSoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/startalk_playing-with-scienceStitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/startalk/playing-with-scienceNOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free here: https://www.startalkradio.net/all-access/season-3-premiere-big-game-special-with-neil-degrasse-tyson-and-new-england-patriot-cameron-fleming/Photo Credit (Cameron Fleming): Jeffrey Beall under Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported license: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/deed.en. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to new episodes ad-free and a whole week early.

I'm Gary O'Reilly. And I'm Chuck Nice. This is Playing With Science. Oh yeah, we're back with another season of Playing With Science. And what better way to kick things off than with a trip to the circus? And the greatest show on earth. Oh yeah, for one night only in Minneapolis, to kick things off than with a trip to the circus. And the greatest show on earth. Oh, yeah. For one night only in Minneapolis,

the New England Patriots will get it on with my Philadelphia Eagles. And at halftime, Justin Timberlake will be doing his thing. Don't piss on me till I walk away. Which sounds like, you know, you know, sounds like Justin Timberlake, but I'm sure it'll live up to the billing.

And helping us do our thing is Kevin Krzyzak, director of innovation at Wilson Sporting Goods, who is going to give us the technology in the football itself. And we're also going to hear from Cameron Fleming, offensive tackle for the New England Patriots. I am so excited to talk to him, as well as our very own resident astrophysicist, Neil deGrasse Tyson. But now let's bring our first guest, Kevin Krzyzewicz, Director, yes, Director of Innovation at Wilson Sporting Goods. Welcome, Kevin. Welcome to Playing With Science. Hey, Kevin, before we even get into any questions, director of innovation. Man, that sounds pretty doggone heavy, bro. Yeah. Well, thank you for having me on.

Yeah. So director of innovation for our football, basketball, soccer, and volley category. So anything you put air into, my team and I work on developing the next generation of great products. That's pretty wild. So, I mean, there's got to be. I want that job. Yeah, that's a great job. There's got to be some... If you leave, would you let me know in advance?

So Gary's going to take your place. It's like Tom Hanks' job in Big. I play with sporting goods all day and tell people what I think. That's great. That is a great job. That was on my resume that I was going to submit. All right, let's get on with it. It's got to feel like...

Wait, no, it's got to feel like there's a lot of... Is there any pressure? Because, I mean, you're like... Invited bullse like, do you have any, yeah, you get that pressure. But there's got to be some pressure. Like, how do you sit down and go, all right, how are we going to evolve this thing now? Like, there's got to be some pressure when you talk about innovation. For something that, by the way, no matter what your innovation, you're still restricted by whatever sport and whatever parameters they put on you when it comes to the sport itself. So how do you go about

creating innovation? Key is honestly just being with athletes. So we've got people dedicated to being out in the field with them all the time. And we try to evolve our product for how the game evolves. So, you know, even going back to his story, when the passing game became more proficient, we changed the aerodynamic properties of the ball. We made the ball smaller, but within spec. So it flew through the air. It had a lower moment of inertia, easier to spin. And so, you know, we listened to the players and look for those kind of macro trends and how the game's changing and then try to design a product to meet that. But players are players. They're always going to be the people that seek the most advantage

for themselves. But within the laws of each particular game, you are trapped to a certain extent. So do you find, you know find an eagerness from one side and a resistance from other that you have to then sort of overcome or manipulate or work with? Yeah, absolutely. And the rules for football, basketball, they're pretty liberal. So we try and work within those rules. And then part of being an engineer and kind of a creative group is, you know, how do you design a product and take a variation of it without upsetting those rules? All right. So talk to us now about the now, as I could say that better, your connected football. And I know, but our listeners won't yet know how connected this ball particularly is

um honestly this is something that i've been working on personally for more than a decade when we first started you know the the size of the electronic package that had to go into the ball um was huge it was you know the size of a vhHS tape or a giant Android phone. And you had to put this giant thing into the ball and make it still fly right, perform right. And at the end of the day, you can't improve what you can't measure. So the fact that the iPhone came out, sensors got smaller, less power hungry, we were able to onboard it into the ball without affecting the performance in which, you know, we tested our connected ball with several, you know, NFL elite players, and they could not tell the difference. They could not feel the difference from a flight

performance standpoint. And so now we've got all of this great ways of measuring the product and, you know, really trying to quantify the quarterback and all the details that kind of go into it for, you know, and taking it to that next level from a statistics standpoint. So what was your, after you've gone through all of the options, what was your best solution? Was it the microchip? And okay, so football's take a battering, whether someone's kicking them the other end of the field or someone's trying to crush the ball itself. How do you secure them? How do you ensure it stays in situ?

We built a pretty simple but ingenious suspension system for it doesn't affect the overall durability or performance of the ball. So it's kind of floating in the middle of the ball, away from any impact on the skin of the ball or inside the bladder. So let me ask you, speaking of that, because this seems like it's very sensitive tech. Most sensors are very sensitive, which they would have to be in order to do their job. How do you go about getting that kind of tech inside the ball without damaging the sensor? Now, this is, you know, I'm just being curious about it might be proprietary, but from your manufacturing standpoint, how do you do that? Because like when you put a sensor inside of my smartphone, you're doing that inside of a clean room. You're doing that in such pristine environment that you

don't have to worry about it. How are you guys doing that? Well, the sensor package itself is encapsulated. So it's potted and kind of protected from the environment that our workers are operating in. Okay. And the way that the ball is made with the fact that you sew the ball together, you turn it inside out, then you insert the bladder. If you do that very carefully, it's very easy to put it into the ball without damaging it at all. See, I've got the ship in a bottle scenario.

Ship in a bottle. There's a guy with a stick in his ear. There's a guy who opens up the laces, right? He gently peels back and then slides to... I have just trodden over a decade of your life's work. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Just how much data? I know we've got the telemetrics, so you can tell me how far, how fast, probably even altitude, right, as regards a ball travels, whether it's kicked or thrown. Have we got impact sensors? Have you got the sort of thing that can tell you, you know, that big 300-pound guy, he just flattens somebody X, Y, Z kind of pounds per whatever it is? Yeah, so the acceleration, the acceler on the the sensor package are able to to

measure all that cool um and really what we're focused on is quantifying the quarterback and the throw so the i would say the most important thing that's come out of this is that we're able to now measure spiral quality wow and so you, on a percentage from zero to a hundred percent, you know, a hundred percent being a perfectly tight spiral, we're able to measure that. And that's something that's never been done before. No. And so is that something that from a mechanic standpoint for a coach, you would be able to use, a coach would be able to use that to kind of work on the mechanics because that seems like something that's more applicable in practice than it would be for game time.

For game time, it's kind of fun. Like, you know, for next-gen stats, it's like, oh, my God, that guy just threw the closest thing to a perfect spiral that anyone could ever throw. And, of course, his name is Tom Brady. Go to hell, Tom Brady! I'm sorry. I don't know where that came from. Eagles fan.

I don't know where that came from. Oh, my God. Spoiler. What just happened there? I'm so sorry. What just happened? Oh, my God. But anyway, that sounds like something that would really benefit coaches in developing, developing a player. Absolutely. You practice how you play. So, you know, does everything that you do on the field, you know, Monday through Saturday translate to what you do on Sundays? Cool, man. That's very cool. That's a mantra you will hear from just about every team sport around the world. Yeah.

Practice. That's how you play. Gary knows. He was a professional sports player. He was a professional soccer player. So a footballer. Tottenham, right? Yep.

That's right. Tottenham. Crystal Palace. Okay. Yeah. baller. Tottenham, right? Yep. That's right. Tottenham and Crystal Palace. Okay. Yeah. Hey, by the way, I got a very cool little ride from a cab driver in Toronto who was extremely impressed that we had a show together. Yeah. Yeah. Because I told him who you were and that you were the co-host of the show and that you played for Crystal Palace. And he went, oh, my God.

And he was so excited, dude. So excited. Anyway, let's get back to this show. I hope you tipped him. That was his tip. I was like, don't worry, buddy. One day you're going to meet Gary. Hey, let me ask you this.

When you're watching football, Kevin, does it change for you now? Like, are you are you not enjoying the game and just watching your equipment? Just like, oh, my God. Like, how do you watch football now? That's a great question. And we talk about that all the time. Me and my team and everybody that's involved, we watch the game completely different than everybody else. Yeah. Because if somebody fumbles the ball, we're like, was that our fault or was that the player's fault? I'm sure the players will say it was your fault. Yeah, but that's the level of seriousness that we take and we think about how we can improve the game. Like we want to make that not happen.

We want to make a ball that's easier to spin, easier to spiral, easier to catch. And so we're constantly thinking that way. Do you look at it from both sides of the game? One side being the team, the players, the coaches, and the other side being guys like me who are sports fans, viewers and think, right, we're doing this for them. They're happy. Look at their smiley faces. They can see a spiral. They could go all the coaching and the telemetrics, all the data. But then there's guys like me thinking, wow, that's cool. I never knew that. Do you engage with the viewer side of things and think, right, how can we enhance that side of the game or the sport?

Absolutely. I mean, people are becoming more data-driven, and they want to see these things. So how do we, as a ball provider, enable that and make the game more enjoyable? So, you know, speaking of that, making the game more enjoyable, do you see a time where everything is connected? So the ball is connected, the players are connected, the player's equipment is connected, the field is connected,

and then ultimately you have all that beaming out to a wi-fi kind of in-house system where the fans are connected i hope so i mean i i think you see that with just all sorts of stadium trends and improving wi-fi and improving kind of the in-game experience i think that's just a natural progression for talking myself out of your job kevin, just for the moment, I would have this part of me that says, I want to put one of those smartphone sensors in the ball and then ring it. Oh, so that somebody could pick it up and be like, you know, like, 343, 343.

Phone rings. Ha, ha, brrrr. Hello? Oh, yeah. Hey, I told you never to call me here. This is probably why I'm never going to get your job. I told you never to call me here. I'm in the middle of never going to get your job. I told you never to call me here. I'm in the middle of a game, damn it.

Okay? All right. What is it? Okay. All right. Okay. So, look. Thinking more seriously.

If we can. Yeah. There you go. Oh, look at that. That's fine. Nice. Good hand. Where can we go?

Are we limited only by our thought process here or can we do some really incredible stuff with the technology regards the ball in play and then the experience on this particular side of the field? Great question. Where is this headed? of blue sky and changing the way people view things. I think you have to think that way and that, you know, it's, it's going to change. It's going to become more connected and it's just going to kind of seamlessly integrate into your life. And it's just going to be just a natural part of your life going forward. Let me ask you this. Do you have a speaking since Gary just brought this up, where's this going and how this is, you know, do you find that there are coaches, I'm talking to older guys, the older dudes. Do you find any resistance on their behalf? Because I find that coaches who are old school kind of believe in the old school ways. And they're like, look, this worked for years. There's no, it ain't broke. Don't fix it. So do you find any resistance

from those types of coaches? Absolutely. You know, there's there's quite a few older coaches that have pushed back on some of the things that we've tried to do. And there's quite a few older coaches that have embraced it. You know, it's all about gaining that kind of winning edge. And if we can enable that, if we can provide data that helps an offensive coordinator or a head coach, and that translates to wins on the field, that's huge. They'll take any advantage they can get. And speaking of coaches and Super Bowls and quarterbacks and sensors,

we're headed to the big game, the big Super Bowl coming up. And I want to know this. If there was a sensor in the ball for this year's Super Bowl, would it be able to make sure that the ball was properly inflated? You go to hell, Tom Brady! No, I'm joking. You had to go there, right?

Yeah, but seriously, would that be part of the data? It wasn't if, Kevin. It was when. Four years ago? Yeah, yes, it was. I can tell you're a Patriots fan. I can tell. But no. I'm from Chicago, man. That's true. You're a Bears fan all the way. And guess what?

I don't mind the Bears even though they play in the NFC. Only time I'm not a Bears fan is when they play the Eagles. So, you know, I'm sorry. They're not in the NFC, right? Yes, they are. Anyway, here's my point. Would that be part of the data, all of the conditions surrounding the ball itself, like whether the ball gets, because the thing is on the inside. So I'm talking about, is there a way to measure like how slick the ball might be or, you know, whether or not this guy needs to wear gloves or

anything like that? Could it get that extensive? Absolutely. I mean, the way the technology is evolving, anything is possible. See, the thing is, another thing would be weight because if it's a natural skin product, you're going to have an absorption of some kind. If you're playing in rain, if you're playing in snow, you're going to have some natural absorption of moisture, which then could particularly change the weight.

Therefore, and it doesn't have to be a large weight change for this to change the way that you have to throw the ball. And that could be something that we delve into after our break. OK, sure. Right. Well, we will take that break. We'll have more from Kevin Krzyzak from Wilson, the director. Yes, the director of innovation at Wilson.

Yeah, he's a great guy and he's going to be back with us after this break. Stick around. Welcome back. I'm Gary O'Reilly. And I'm Chuck Knight. And this, of course, is Playing With Science. It is. Today for our Super Bowl special, we are taking a look at the science and the technology in NFL footballs.

And with us via Skype, we have Kevin Krzyzewicz, Director of Innovation at Wilson Sporting Goods. And I must say, it's a pleasure, an absolute pleasure to have you with us still, Kevin. Thanks for sticking around. Yeah, we touched on just before the break about what could possibly happen. And do you think we'll ever get to the point where the ball in the field is connected? So all of a sudden that ball travels 30 yards. All of a sudden there'll be sensors down the sidelines and they'll all light up. And this will be just a wonderful thing for us to watch.

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, there was a sensor mounted in the ball for every single season or every single game this season. So, oh, yeah, we're already we're already making steps towards towards that, you know, the end goal you just discussed. That's pretty cool. And so now now do you believe and Father Christmas, give us some money. Father Christmas, give us some money. Do you believe that referees, when it comes to these sensitive calls as to whether or not on a first or fourth and goal from the one yard line, the ball only has to break the plane. So if you're using a sensor that's in the ground, all that ball has to do is touch that field of plane and it will register. Do you believe that that should replace a referee's call? Or do you believe that part of the game, that judgment call, actually makes the game that much more fun?

So, again, being an engineer and a technology person, I think what you want to do is you want to enable the referee to make the best decision. So, you know, the way that these technologies are changing, again, from what we know from just positional and real-time location systems, we started out, you could get accuracy within a couple feet then you're down to a foot then you're now i think the accuracy for the zebra system is like six inches so it's you know it's moore's law it's everything else it's going to kind of get continually better

and better and it's just a matter of time do you ever envision a game where you do not need a referee you would have cameras with artificial intelligence software mounted to the camera, and then you would have sensors on the field, on the players, and in the ball. Why? You don't even need a referee at that point. Who's going to throw the flag? Let me see. Who would throw the flag at that point?

Yeah, you'd have a robot throwing the flag. Actually, you'd have a robotic flag. Oh, no. You'd throw one in. Right. The drone would come down and drop a flag on the play. I mean, but do you envision it going that far? I mean, if I could play a part in that and help move towards that, that would be awesome.

Again, just being technology-driven and end-user, if that's going to make the game better, like that's what we should move to. Oh, wow. Look at this. I just got a text from a referee saying, hey, Kevin, F you. All right. Anyway, I'm joking. I didn't say F you. Can we get heat sensitive footballs that would change color? Oh, look at Gary. Yeah, thermochromatic football. If I can think it, you can do it because you're an engineer, sir.

You see? We might be playing at sub-zero temperatures. If it gets really, really, really cold, we get a really special color. And it depends on how much of a color palette you can have regards to changing of a ball. Or what you could also do is make the ball with the spiral. Depending upon the velocity and the spin rate of the ball, the ball would change color while it's in the air.

And so it would kind of leave a little color trail behind. How cool would that be? Don't you remember the NHL glowing puck from like 10 years ago? Whenever they would slap shot it, it would go from like blue to red. Yes didn't design that as well did you no unfortunately but i know the people who did yeah by the way i kind of dig that stuff so i just i now want leds in the ball so as if you throw a spiral over a certain distance they light up oh my god could that be done kevin um patent you'll talk hey let's talk about The evolution of the ball itself

Let's go back in time Let's go back in time Alright so now They call it a pig spit Since you guys have been The official supplier Of the football For the NFL

Since 1941 Back then Were you actually Gutting pigs And turning them into footballs Because why did they Call it a pig skin Is really what I'm saying

It's scary But it's true I mean like the oh my god i was joking are you for real the origins of wilson as we started out in the the chicago meat packing world the slaughterhouses of the world and they were trying to figure out what to do with all these extras uh once they cut out the meat and uh so the the from the, the cows would go to a tannery and then the, the pig's bladders they found actually held a little bit of air. And, uh, that's how the kind of, they started sewing things together and putting things into the ball. And that's how it all evolved. Oh my God. You're making me so hungry right now. Um, you default to food every show.

I'm going to feed you before coming on air next time. So how do we ensure quality control? So what is the outer skin of a football right now? Where are we working on? Genuine cowhide leather. Okay. Oh, okay. So how do we ensure quality?

And how do we ensure that it isn't prone to absorbing every bit of moisture there is once it hits the toe? Yeah, because if it is genuine leather, I would assume that you're going to have very many skins that are going to have some flaws and some variations. So how do you deal with that? Absolutely. And that all comes down to process. The hide selection, what we do at the factory to make sure that the the best quality goes to uh you know the nfl and our elite college and high school teams and then you know the the lower qualities will be made into like youth grade leathers so uh where the performance and expectations are you know a little bit different compared to you know

say super bowl sunday so is it am i? A football is called a football because it is a foot long, or is that just a complete urban myth? I've never heard that one. I'll go with urban myth. Yeah, we'll probably go with urban myth then. So why, do you know why they call it a football though? I mean, why is the game called football? Like soccer everywhere except here is called football. And that makes sense because it's played with your foot. And then there's rugby football, and you've got an echoing in the shape of an NFL football in a rugby ball. See, if I look at a rugby ball, that's made to carry. A soccer ball is made to kick.

Right. But they don't call rugby football. It is. It is called rugby football. No. Oh, it's called a rugby football? No, the game is rugby football. Oh, get out of here. Is that because you

kicked the ball at some point in the game? Yeah. Okay. I think the origination of the game was many, many, many years ago. Way before I was born. We should change the name of American football to war, because that's exactly what it is, and that

is why we like it. usa okay i'm sorry now i'm happy i'm sorry uh anything you can tell us that we could possibly see in a sporting event in the near future that won't give away all of your trades yeah that won't that won't mess up your your secret double secret won't have me applying for your job. Right. That's a good question. I think we touched on it a little bit. It's just how the game is changing and the and more data coming from the product and that being shared with, you know, coaches, users, you know, people, you know, live streaming and it's just going to become

more part of the game. Awesome. Hey, that's, that's, that's pretty cool, man. Just before we let you go, because we're out of time here, Kevin, I just want to say that I know you asked for a ticket. Well, no, that comes after. I do that off air. Gary, what are you doing? That's what I do off air. Don't tell people that. So, Kevin, seriously, I want to have you back if you're up for it,

because I know Nike got out of the golf thing, and you guys are moving into that. I also know that you guys are doing the tech thing in basketball. We want to know about tennis, which is a perfect sport for this kind of... We've got a relationship with a tennis guy.

Yeah. We would love to get you back and talk about the tech areas in other sports that you're dealing with. Absolutely. We've got a lot of smart people here that would enjoy that.

And finally, do you think that sports companies, equipment companies, are going to have to become tech companies? Because it looks like this is where you guys are going to have to – it looks like you guys have to reinvent yourselves and become a tech company. That decision was made years ago, wasn't it? What's that? I think we have to in order to compete or else you're kind of ripe to be disrupted. There you go. You got to challenge everything

absolutely we like that hey man thanks so much for talking to us this was so much fun uh thank you kevin krishak from wilson sporting goods and he is the director of innovation kevin absolute pleasure thank you we are going to take another break and do we have a treat for you when we get back? Not only do we have the good Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson, but yes, Cameron Fleming. He plays for the New England Patriots. He only has one. No, make that two Super Bowl winners rings and you can ball your life back after the break.

Welcome back. I'm Gary O'Reilly. I'm Chuck Nice. And this is Playing With Science. But this is Playing With Science with a twist. And one I hope you're going to enjoy. Joining us via Skype right now, we have Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson. The one, the only, your personal astrophysicist.

Yes, but not that we can do this very often, but I think we may have topped Mr. Tyson, the doctor, with Cameron Fleming, offensive tackle for the New England Patriots, as he builds up to Super Bowl 52. That's right. And the Philadelphia Eagles. Yeah, cameras. In plural, welcome to Playing With Science.

Oh, thank you. Thank you for having me. You're welcome. Such a pleasure to have you here. Hey, let's jump right into this. Let's get into the science since we have Dr. Tyson on the phone with us. Because, Cameron, you may not know this, but Dr. Tyson was a wrestler. And you are an offensive lineman. There seems to be some similarities similarities so let me ask you both

are you ever aware of the physics involved with um shifting the weight of your opponent using your opponent's weight against him is that are you aware of that cameron when you are uh in the trenches uh on that line of scrimmage and a big, burly defensive player is coming at you? I can't speak for Mr. Tyson, but Dr. Tyson, I'm sorry. But in the moment, no, I'm not thinking about it. I know that I have to get low. I know leverage and the physics

of all of it is a thing, but by the time the game comes, it's all instinct. It's all about what you've done up to that point to prepare for those moments. So kind of muscle memory from the training and the drills that you would do in practice. What did you major in in college? I majored in aeronautics and astronautics at Stanford. Nice.

and astronautics at Stanford. Nice. Aeronautics and astronautics, which makes perfect sense that you're a professional football player. Do your parents ever think like they wasted

all that Stanford money? Oh, that's cruel. I was on scholarship, so no, they don't think that. Ah, look at you with the humble brag. That's the way to go, my friend. Hey, Neil, let me ask you this.

When you look at an offensive lineman and what they do and you being a wrestler, do you see the similarities between what you used to do when you were in the ring and what these guys do on the line of scrimmage? Excuse me, I wasn't in a ring. Ring is like professional wrestling. Well, what do you call that circle that you guys are in? I call it a ring. On the mats, when you were on the mats. Just to his point, I think if you do things that you have a certain intent of an outcome and a tackle, and it doesn't go the way you had expected, the body flips the wrong way or the other, and you make an adjustment, these are all physics adjustments, whether anyone is self-conscious of that fact. And what I wonder, what I want to put a question back on the table is, if so much of what you do is, as you said, instinct or muscle memory or drill memory, is there, have you considered further honing what you do by invoking known laws of physics to give you a slight added advantage because all the times that tackle has been performed, they might have missed a little extra thing they could have done and thereby raise the game up a few notches.

And by example, do you remember, I forgot which Olympics it was, where Falsbury did the first Falsbury flop. Yep, the high jumper. The physics of the high jump. did the first Falsbury flop. Yep, high jumper. She's the physics of the high jump. And what he did was he sent his center of mass lower below the bar than anyone had done before by curving his body backwards over it. And you can't do that if you go forwards over the bar.

Change the physics, up the game. So you have a background where you could up the game a few extra notches beyond just what sweaty, grunty men are doing on a practice field. So what have you thought of that? I have not thought of that, but I mean, now that you bring it up, I might have to get a team of us together and try to figure this out, try to make football even better than it is. Absolutely. The thing is, it's not been going too bad lately.

Yeah, I got to say. If we think about the recent record for the New York Pates. So let's get to this to the big game, man. First of all, you've already you already have a ring. Now, let me say full disclosure here, Cameron. Let me just say this. I am I am born in Philadelphia. I am Philadelphia raised and I bleed green. Philadelphia. I am Philadelphia raised and I bleed green. Okay? So, the fact that you have already got a ring on your finger,

wouldn't another ring just be gaudy? You don't really need it, right? Oh, I think as many as you can get, you have to go get. I'm with you, Cameron. I'm sorry that you're rooting for the wrong side. Oh! Oh, Cameron! Oh, yeah, Cameron. Cameron, why you gotta do that to me, bro? I'm liking you by the rooting for the wrong side. Oh! Oh, Cameron! Oh, yeah, Cameron.

Cameron, why you got to do that to me, bro? I'm liking you by the minute. Keep twisting it. Keep twisting it. Chuck, what he wants to be able to do is sort of, you make the fist when you have like four rings right across and then they all sort of glisten in the sunlight. That's what he's trying to get to right there. So, let me, what do you do

to prepare for this? This is a very special circumstance. Does it help that you've been there before? I mean, how crazy is it leading up to this game? And by the way, with that, thank you so much. You're coming from practice right now to talk to us, and we really appreciate that. So what do you do to prepare,

and how do you keep your mind focused on the game? and how do you keep your mind focused on the game? Well, what we do to prepare is very similar to what we do to prepare for every other game. I mean, I don't think at this juncture we should be – we've seen success so far, so we can't change what we're doing now. But as far as distractions go, you got to know what the end goal is, and you got to know that you won remember anything, but the outcome of the game come 50 years from now. Right. Well, that's a good way to look at it. Is that mantra running through the locker room, play the game, not the occasion. Does that get uttered at all? Or is that just something that's not even bothered speaking

about because the guys have been there, particularly the quarterback have been there so many times in the past. I think it doesn't hurt to be sad a couple of times. I mean, a lot of people are new to this experience, and there's a lot to get wrapped up in, but you've just got to stay focused. Absolutely. You know what, Gary brought up a good point. The quarterback of your team,

he who shall rename nameless. No, Tom. Shakespearean play. Exactly. Well, Tom, Tom Brady, greatest quarterback ever in the history of the game. Okay. Now let me ask you this. He is the greatest quarterback, but he gets all the glory because you guys down there in the trenches, you guys make him look good. Do you ever get mad that this dude is taking credit for all of your hard work, Cameron? down there in the trenches. You guys make him look good.

Do you ever get mad that this dude is taking credit for all of your hard work, Cameron? Oh, absolutely not. I mean, if he's getting the glory, that means we're all doing something right and we're all being successful. So I can't be mad if he's in the spotlight. I'm just trying to sow a little discord. That's all.

The thing is, Cameron is in charge of guarding the NFL's crown jewel. He does that job with pride. No matter how many times you try and trip him up, he's not going to go there. All right? I admire the man's discipline, most certainly. So let me ask you both this, because Neil has been an athlete all through high school, college,

and you are a professional athlete. And as an astrophysicist, part of discipline, you know, putting your mind into a certain place, discipline wise, in order to achieve certain goals, like when you're writing a book or anything, Neil. So let me just ask you this. What is the most important thing that you can do to stay focused? You're asking me? I'm asking both of you. So go ahead, Neil. What's the most important thing you can do to stay focused in accomplishing a goal? And then Cameron, same question to you. I would answer it in a way that slightly differently from how you asked it. It's not what do I do to stay focused? It's can I find something that I'm so interested in accomplishing that the focus comes for free as a manifestation of my curiosity?

And in so doing, the cost of that is you end up focusing at the expense of things like personal hygiene or your social life or your family life. And this is almost always some source of domestic conflict because you become laser focused on something that is, in a way, drawing you to it. So it's not that I have to figure out how to stay focused. You just look for me. I find the projects where, uh, I have no other choice in the matter. Uh, my focus is just built into the system. All right. So Cameron, same question. How do you stay focused and piggybacking on Neil's answer? Uh, do you not shower after practice? Oh, you can't help yourself.

after practice? You can't help yourself. Well, fortunately, I do shower after practice most days. Maybe not right after, but I definitely get it in. But go along with

what Dr. Tyson said. I think it's all about the end goal. As in, when you have an end goal that's worth it, then the day-to-day, not-so-exciting parts, the hard parts, the parts that get you off track, you can always bring yourself back to that end goal.

And I think that's the key to just maintaining focus, is to know what the end goal is and knowing how to get there. Cool. Okay, Cameron, before we let you go, how big a unit, and I don't mean size, in terms of trust and belief, does the New England Patriots have right now

in terms of what their goal, and it's an obvious one, I think we all know what it is. How much trust and belief is there in this unit? An immense amount. I mean, like, it was formed all through the season. We've been going at it for eight months now, kind of forming and storming, and now we're finally getting to perform.

So I think the trust here is very high, and it needs to be for us to get this far. That's very cool, man. And I wish you luck, but i'm not going to um so let me ask you this can i add one other thing in here go ahead sorry this this applies maybe like eight minutes ago in this conversation but um one of the things i always appreciated about madden when he was announcing uh was that he, for me, was the first announcer to really showcase the lineman. And yeah, he did love lineman. Yeah. And and, you know, he's a big guy, you know. And so so my favorite one was when he said he loves it when the fat guy gets the ball.

And my favorite one was when he said he loves it when the fat guy gets the ball. That's funny. Hey, speaking of that. Just in a sense that I don't know that I don't get that much anymore in modern announcers. There's always, you know, you're going to the quarterback or to the flamboyant wide receiver. Right. And the people who who who part the Red Sea to allow these folks to get through, you know, the camera left you behind on the ball. Mind you, I think I know where you're going with your question there, Chuck, because I think Cameron is the sort of modern type of player that doesn't just play one position.

Jumbo tight end. They would line you up a jumbo tight end, which of course, I mean, which to me, as a, if I'm a defense, I see you lined up a tight end. I'm like, okay, it's got to be a running play because look at this big guy out there. Did you ever want them to just throw you the ball? I'm still waiting for that. I'm definitely still waiting for that. Hopefully one day.

Oh, hey, hey, Cameron. I'm proud it's one day very, very soon because when you do and you spike it, I am going to steal a piece of that just for me. Oh, I hope that happens, sir, because that that has got to be one of the major dreams of every football player. Yeah. And I hope it comes your way. So I really do. I got to do this before we let you go, Cameron, because you are so well respected. OK, here is a quote that was said about you. He's quiet, but he's probably one of the most respected players on the team because of his work ethic and his toughness and his

dependability. We ask him to do a lot of different things and play multiple positions, guard, both tackles, the jumble tight end spot. He works very hard to do all of these things, and his intelligence is excellent. So he has the capacity to handle a lot of things. But he's a flexible guy, and nothing really seems to rattle him. He's got a very even temperament. Do you know who said that about you? I do not. Can you tell me? I will tell you. It was coach Bill Belichose I mean Belichick Yeah

Yeah Bill Belichick Bill Belichick said that about you And he hates everybody Well that's nice to know huh Cameron? How does that feel man? To have one of the greatest coaches of this game Talking about you in those respects I'll have to tell him thank you

Next time I see him Alright And tell him to run that time I see him. Alright. And tell him to run that play where you catch it, right? Oh, definitely. Yeah. Quick, can I just geek out with him for a minute? Go ahead. Just, I don't know if you saw, I had a tweet

a couple of months ago or so that it opened up a whole debate about laterals. And I don't know if you caught wind of that, but I just wanted to get your sense of it. So there was a play that... Seattle Seahawks. Yeah, the Seahawks. And executed where...

Against the Eagles. It was against the Eagles. It was against the Eagles. And quite frankly, it was a forward pass that was not challenged on the field, but it was deemed a lateral not for the first time chuck let it go so let me explain it's right so wilson is running down the field so he breaks the line of scrimmage and is running down the field he's running fast

he's got others running with him but slightly behind him and he's about to get tackled and he laterals backwards to his fellow player. He catches it and gets first down and gets very good field position. Okay. In their reference frame, it is a legal lateral, but in the reference frame of the gridiron itself, you can actually see the ball go forward by about a half a yard. Right. And so I weighed in on this in Twitter. I said, look, it's a legitimate Galilean transformation. In their moving reference frame, the ball went backwards. You can't, just because they're running faster than the ball, you can't now penalize them

because they're fast and say, oh, the field saw that it went forward. What are you going to make them stop and wait for, I mean, what are you going to expect people to do? So I just want another fellow sort of geek, engineer geek, how would you weigh in on this? Because I just told you how I did. Well, I think I'll take an opposing view of yours. I think it's their responsibility to not run faster than the ball.

In their frame, maybe it went backwards, but I think it needs to go backwards in everybody's frame. How else are we supposed to enforce it? Let me just tell you this, Cameron. That's a good answer. You just became my favorite Patriot ever. Oh, man.

This is calmly a sentence. It needs to go backwards in everybody's favor. In everybody's favor. Great. That's a great answer. I got no rebuttal to that. Wow. All right. Cameron, you've done something interesting there.

Hey, Cameron, man, thanks so much for being with us. I mean, you're really a pleasure. I hope we can get you back on again. And I will say this. You're really a pleasure. I hope we can get you back on again. And I will say this. I hope you have the greatest Super Bowl that you've ever played in your life. One that will make every team want you in the next season.

But I hope you lose. Cameron, I know you're going to brush that off because you're a man of great intelligence and doesn't get rattled. So I wish you well, sir, and every blessing come your way. To the good doctor, thank you once again. Been an absolute privilege. Thank you, Dr. Tyson, and thank you, Cameron Fleming. Yeah, without a doubt. Wow, Neil deGrasse Tyson and current Super Bowl champion Cameron Fleming.

And a man who could get another ring to go with his collection. No, no, he cannot. No, he can't get another ring. He could get another ring to go with his winning selection. And what about Kevin Krzyzewicz from Wilson, the director of innovation? Fascinating stuff. Isn't it? Yeah.

And what about what could be possible in the future? Yeah, man. Yeah. This was a great show. I know. They're always great shows. Absolutely. Why did I act surprised?

Well, because we've been playing with science. And when that happens, Chuck? Well, you get learned. Because when you play with fire, you get burned. But when you play with science, you get learned. OK. School's out for now. But we'll be back soon.

So get your homework done. And we'll see you next time.