StarTalk Radio - #ICYMI - Space Jam: Basketball Cosmic Queries, with Neil deGrasse Tyson

Episode Date: November 30, 2017

Neil deGrasse Tyson joins hosts Gary O’Reilly and Chuck Nice to answer fan submitted questions about the physics of basketball, Michael Jordan, and the impact of race on athletic performance. (Warning: Adult Language.)Don’t miss an episode of Playing with Science. Subscribe to our channels on:TuneIn: tunein.com/playingwithscienceApple Podcasts: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/playing-with-science/id1198280360GooglePlay Music: https://play.google.com/music/listen?u=0#/ps/Iimke5bwpoh2nb25swchmw6kzjqSoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/startalk_playing-with-scienceStitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/startalk/playing-with-scienceNOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free: https://www.startalkradio.net/all-access/space-jam-basketball-cosmic-queries-with-neil-degrasse-tyson/ Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to new episodes ad-free and a whole week early.

I'm Gary O'Reilly and I'm Chuck Knott and this is Playing With Science. Today we throw ourselves deep into the cosmos and plot a course for the superstars of a faraway galaxy known by those who search such stars as the NBA nebula. Oh, man, I like what you did there, Gary. Yeah, that was a really cosmological NBA reference thing. Well, guess what? We're armed only with our enduring minds and our listeners' fabulously creative questions because we're going to trek towards those faraway stars, and our guide for this journey is none other than the one, the only, your very own personal astrophysicist,

Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson. Did you like my... You were getting low. So let's not waste any time. Let's make some space jam, shall we? I don't know why, but just hearing you say, let's make some space jam. It's like the Great British Bake Off, only in space.

But I think, Neil, the way I've introduced the show might be flawed. No, no, NBA Nebula, I love it. Do you? We have nebulosities across the cosmos named for whatever they happen to look like. We have a crab nebula, the North American nebula, we have the eagle nebula. They just look like-

Whatever it looks like. Whatever it looks like. Let me ask you this about nebulae, because they're big, giant clouds of space gas, right? Nebula is like Latin for cloud. That's what it is, yeah. Big, giant cloud of space gas. But since it's a cloud, wouldn't they change shape over a period of what it is, yeah. Big giant cloud of space gas. But since it's a cloud, wouldn't they change shape over a period of time? Oh, yeah.

Ah. You just don't live long enough to watch that happen, okay? So the Eagle Nebula will remain the Eagle Nebula as long as I'm alive. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's huge. You're talking about something that's hundreds of times bigger than the solar system. Right. It's not going to just sort of move around and be anything it wants in any given moment.

Okay. So you do see some changes deep down where stars are being born, this sort of thing. But overall, these structures have a certain permanency to them. Sweet. All right. And now, remember, this is a sports show. Okay? So we're going to get back to our sports.

It is a science sports show. Yeah. Okay? And that was science. That was science. All right Okay? So we're going to get back to our sports. It is a science sports show. Yeah. Okay? And that was science. That was science. All right? So how are we going to get to the sports? Because what we're doing today is we're taking your-

I have no idea what you're doing today. Oh, that's right. You're a guest. Yeah, I'm a guest. Normally, you're driving this bus. I ain't driving this bus. You got a ticket. The short bus.

Apparently. That's when I'm driving it. We'll check Neil's ticket. Yeah, for sure. They're like, wait a minute. Who let that kid drive the bus? Drive the bus. Uh-huh.

Yeah. All right. So today, what we're doing is we're answering your listener questions submitted about our Kareem Abdul-Jabbar show that aired. That was fun. I really enjoyed that. I really enjoyed that. That aired on Nat Geo a little while ago. And so we only got to answer a couple of them the first time around.

So we took the rest of them. We only got to answer a couple of them the first time around. We took the rest of them. We figured, hey, why not revisit this and dedicate a show and have your personal astrophysicist come back and answer these questions. Well, let's do that. Let's do it. First one. Go ahead, Gary. Okay, so this is from Ranjib Rudra on Facebook.

Oh, my God. That was great. Look at you. You practiced. He's showing off. He's showing off. This is not cool because everyone knows that. He rolled his R.

Exactly. Namaste. And everybody knows that I never, ever prepare, and so therefore I look stupid, and now I've got to start preparing because you just made me look dumb. No, you've just got to learn to roll your R's. So namaste from New Delhi, which is obviously a very, very interesting place to be.

Which planet in our solar system, says Ranjit. Wait, isn't that called Delhi now? No, very interesting place to be. Which planet in our solar system? Wait, isn't that called Delhi now? No, no, no, no. India kind of got rebranded and they changed a whole load of names that were associated with the Raj. But New Delhi is still New Delhi. Yeah, New Delhi is New Delhi. Bombay became Mumbai. Calcutta became Kolkata.

Kolkata? Madras. Kolkata. Kolkata. No. Kol. Kolkata? Madras. Kolkata. Kolkata. No. Kolkata. So then Madras. We're saying Kolkata.

You say whatever you wish, sir. Madras became Chennai. Right. That's enough of the geography and history. But that happened in China as well. And when Peking became Beijing. Beijing, yeah. But they didn't change Peking Duck.

To Beijing Duck. Yeah. Right. It's still Peking Duck. Absolutely. And didn't change Peking Duck. To Beijing Duck. Yeah. Right. It's still Peking Duck. Absolutely. And I'm pissed off at that. Why? I don't know.

Peking Duck. You could change it. Change it. Beijing Duck doesn't seem like I would like it. And it's still Bombay Gin. It's not Mumbai Gin. Trade name. Okay.

There you go. Fine. So, right. Okay. Which planet in our solar system would be the best for having a game filled with super cool high-flying dunks? This would mean greater hang time in the air. Take it away, sir. Ooh, ooh.

So we're talking about basketball here. We are all about the NBA and the superstars within it. The National Basketball Association. Correct. So here's the thing. You don't want the gravity to be too low. Right. Because you know what will happen, because these guys can jump, right?

For sure. And you want to talk about hang time? If the object has a low enough gravity, then you will jump and achieve escape velocity and just never come back. So that's the limit. By the way, that's the game I want to watch. Everybody jumps. Everybody jumps and just disappears. Next group comes in. Next group. Everybody jumps and just disappears.

Next group comes in. Next group comes in. Nobody comes back. It's going to cost an awful lot in uniforms. So there's that limit. Then you don't want to limit the other limit where gravity is so heavy, your muscles can't get you off the ground at all. So we know what Earth is like.

And is that not enough acrobatics your muscles can't get you off the ground at all, right? So we know what Earth is like. Yeah. And is that not enough acrobatics for this person from New Delhi? No, no. Ranjib is possibly exploring the fact that what actually would happen. Okay. Would we see? I think the moon is pretty good. Mars would be good too, but moon would be better.

Okay, so here's what they are, just to remind you. Sure. Mars has about 40% of earth gravity, right? So if you're 200 pounds on Mars, on earth, you are 40%. You'd be 80 pounds on Mars. So what that means is all your musculature, all the strength of those muscles, that's accustomed to moving gracefully 200 pounds. Cause you guys are all 200 pounds at least. Okay my day they were like 160, 70, 80 pounds but it's before everybody's working out now

weight training so 200 pounds is a good average weight if you want to think about it so think about the strength you have to move your own body gracefully and now at 200 pounds now you weigh 80 pounds so now you can jump much higher. Your hang time is much longer.

And you're already acrobatic. Now you could do a triple pirouette dunk. Because your hang time allows it. So Earth men become supermen on Mars. Earth men become supermen on Mars. That's correct. Now, that's 40% your weight. Now you get used to that.

Now this person writes in you Mars basketball players. I want, I want to do see one more, one up on that. Now you go to the moon. So now if you're 200 pounds on earth, you'd be 32 pounds on the moon. So now you'd be even lighter. And a little known fact is that the body weight plus equipment of the astronauts on the moon was like 350 pounds. Right. And there they were skipping like a knotty little thing. Right. Like they were little, after their little lambs. There you go.

So if they're 350 pounds on the moon, they're like 50 pounds here. We have one-sixth of that. But now, see, on the moon, when you would see the guys skipping along, as you said, with this 350 pounds worth of equipment on them, they looked a little more bouncy. So they went up and they came down slowly. It's because not only are they lighter, you fall slower. Right. So you go up slower.

Oh, so now we've got hang time. So there's where the hang time comes in. Okay. So you go up slower? Oh, so now we've got hang time. So there's where the hang time comes in. Okay. So you don't go up. You will come down as fast as you went up is what I'm saying. But if you go up fast, you'll go that much higher. So here's the thing. So you could be sawed depending on how high the basket is.

If the basket is still 10 feet up, everybody would be waiting around. Waiting for you to come down. Come down. See, how long is a game going to last? Yeah, it'll be longer. Right, right. So what you really would have to do would be raise the basket. Raise the basket.

And then you just have more high-flying stunts within a game. Correct. And you can imagine, remember those few moves that I first saw Michael Jordan do it? Surely it's been done since then. Where Michael Jordan was going with one hand, changed his mind. Right. Changed hands. Right. Flipped flip came to the other side of the basket and put the ball in.

Now you could do that, you could like change your mind four or five times. So all of a sudden you've introduced freestyling. Freestyle, yeah exactly. There's enough time to do a freestyle shot. And maybe there'd be judges for how beautiful the shot was. Yeah, I like it. Right, okay, let's- And beautiful the shot was. I like it.

Right, okay. And drop b-ball. Oh my gosh. Making up new sports that will never ever happen. You come down on the left side, I come down on the right side, and I pass to you, you pass back to me, I throw it behind my back, someone shows up behind me, it goes down, back up, because what you've effectively done is added a third dimension to the maneuverings of the ball.

So what would we call, so we have the Harlem Globetrotters here. What are we going to call ourselves on the moon? Ooh. Ooh. Okay. You think about that one and we'll get to our next question. Acela Ikanayake on Facebook. If I've mispronounced your name, I am sincerely sorry.

That's more like it. Yeah. See, that's just to keep Chuck happy. Now I'm feeling you, Gary. There you go. And this follows on the trend. So if we were to play basketball on Mars or Europa, would people who are taller and bigger have an extra advantage?

Well, go ahead. Well, so everything scales. So if you jump higher than another person on Earth, you will still jump higher than that person on another planet. Right. So that's just how that works. Yeah, the competition will not change. Yeah, not unless you accept it may open up certain, as we said a moment ago, it might open up certain acrobatic moves that would just be gorgeous to look at. Because you have a third dimension in which this can occur.

Think about it. If I'm trying to pass a ball, okay? Everybody's got long arms, so I can't toss it high. Somebody's going to reach out and grab it. I have to toss it quickly and at chest level. And I only do it when I can, okay? Maybe it's a bounce pass, but that's it. If people are rising up and down like Son of Flubber in the basketball game in that movie,

then the ball, the trajectories of the ball can become much more interesting. And many more kinds of acrobatic plays could then be put into it. You touched on something. I've got to tell you something, man. You just gave me a great idea. Wait, it's so good, I don't even know if I should share it. The general public, man. You just gave me an idea.

Who cares? I'm never going to make it, so I'll just put it out there. What's that? You know they have these NBA video games where you play NBA? Uh-huh. NBA space video game. Change the gravity. Change the gravity.

You can change the gravity and change the game. That's true. That would be awesome. That's trademark star talk playing with science. That's ours. Ours. That would be our ownership in this room right now. That's a brilliant.

So now here's a Laura Dirk from Instagram. Would a basketball still bounce in space? Oh, okay. So a couple of things there. Thank you. So wait, wait,

wait, I want to up the ante on this, though. What? I want to fill the basketball with air from Earth, and then I want to fill the basketball with the same atmosphere that you would have wherever you're playing. Wait, wait, wait. Okay, so for instance, fill the basketball.

Did I? No, no. Chuck went off on one. Chuck derailed. This is what happens when I start thinking. Okay, yeah. You on one. Chuck derailed. This is what happens when I start thinking. Okay. You can tell it's not good. Okay.

So for instance, you're on the moon, right? And the ball is filled with air. Yes. Okay. So you're bouncing the ball on the moon and it's filled with air. Earth air. Okay. Now you're on Mars and the ball is filled with Martian atmosphere.

Okay. And you're bouncing the ball on Mars. What would be the difference? Okay. So here's the thing. So you have the ball on Earth, and I forgot what pressure. Is it nine pounds or something? Something like that. 12 pounds.

Yes, I forgot what, but it's somewhere around there. It's not 30. It's not 100 like your bicycle tire. So that pressure is what it is pushing against atmospheric pressure. Right. OK? That's how that works.

So for example, if you partially filled the ball, so it's only like, so it's like. Squidgey. So dude, you haven't finished. Right. And you bring it to higher altitudes where the outside air pressure is lower. The ball inflates. The ball inflates.

The ball inflates. Right. Okay? So you want to make sure that you don't overfill it in one kind of atmosphere and take it to another planet because then the thing will just explode. So it's all about the atmosphere pressure. Relative to the air inside.

It doesn't make a difference. And it doesn't make a difference what's in it, basically. It doesn't make a difference what's in it, basically. It doesn't make a difference what's in it. Okay, so that's the first fact. Second fact, the leather on the ball, I think it's cow leather rather than pigskin like a football would be. Have you ever looked inside a basketball? I can't say that I have. Yeah, there's a rubber inner bladder.

Yeah, there's a bladder. Yeah, there's a bladder in there. And I've peeled off the leather and just inflate the bladder. You can make it like this big. It's kind of cool. This man dissects a basketball. As a kid, you know, you do that. An experiment. What's that? An experiment. Well, I took apart every ball I ever played with

just to see what was inside. Not every ball. Oh, you were popular. Not every ball. Not every ball that I played with. Are we still on the air? Playing with science after hours. Yeah. No, no. For me, one of the most interesting ones

was taking part of baseball. Oh, sweet. Yeah, because there's this long, there's this. Isn't there string inside of baseball? It's not string. It's like a rubber string, if you will. Yeah, yeah. But just keep unraveling.

And then there's like another thing inside. And one I had had liquid in it. I mean, it's just, there's a whole universe inside the baseball. Sweet. So here's the thing. That if the basketball gets cold. Okay.

Okay. Oh, now we've introduced temperature. Yeah, I know. Here you go. Talking about shrinkage now. We're definitely, we're definitely. Okay. I understand

Yeah I know I know you're a pro basketball player But even you sir You get that I'm just To the elements So here's what So here's what happens

It was cold Okay go ahead Here's what happens So on earth In a basketball arena Temperature is 70 degrees Plus or minus Okay

If you go to a colder environment Like Mars, Mars is 200 degrees below zero. Oh. Okay. So what will happen is the rubber on the inside freezes. Right. And rubber loses its flexibility and its sort of restoring force the colder it gets. We learned that, well, we've always known it, but tragic evidence of that was the loss of Challenger back in 1986. Yes.

The space shuttle. Go ahead. Okay. Here's what happened. Please tell me. Here's what happened. Go ahead. All right.

So the O-rings that connect the segments of the solid rocket boosters, they're O-rings. Right. They're rubber. They're rubber. Okay. Like washers. Okay. And so the temperature was lower than anyone had tested this before in that place.

And so the O-rings lost their pliability. Their resiliency. Their resiliency. And so they could not sustain the binding between the segments. And become brittle. Fuel. Yes. So fuel spilled out.

And once that happens, it ignites. And you brittle. Fueled. Yes. So fuel spills out. Spills out. And once that happens, it ignites. And you lose the whole equilibrium. So you would need a warmed arena on Mars so that you're not playing in the 200 degree below zero conditions. That's what you need. And on the moon, where there's, Mars doesn't have ozone either to protect it from ultraviolet. But on the moon, especially if there's no atmosphere or anything, you could bounce the ball. But on the daytime side of the moon, it's very hot. It's like a couple hundred degrees above zero. So you might melt the butter. Melt the butter.

Yeah, melt the butter. Let's do that. Melt the rubber. So keep in mind, we invented balls to play with in our own atmospheric and temperature conditions. That's what I'm saying. Think about it. I am thinking about it. That's why I'm silent. That's why you're giggling. Look at him.

Think about it. Hockey doesn't require that the puck bounce. No. Because it's sitting on ice. Right. No Because it's sitting on ice Right So though it's a rubber puck Yeah It's rubber because it can Excuse me It can careen off of things But it's not bouncing the way you would bounce a ball

Right And the puck is going to be Basically the temperature of the ice Alright If you leave it there long enough Right Yeah yeah So you don't need that feature of the puck to be active

But you would in a basketball That's all Alright so we are going to take our first break. We're going to be discussing during that period heated ball courts, temperature-controlled balls, Chuck, no giggling, and then we'll come back and we'll get on with the rest of our Cosmic Query about basketball. See you shortly.

Welcome back. I'm Gary O'Reilly. I'm Chuck Nice. And this is Playing With Science, and this is our Cosmic Query with your incredibly fabulous questions about basketball. So, Chuck, next time. We are sitting here.

We forgot to say who we're sitting here with. Just to reset the room and let people know that joining us today and answering all of your Cosmic Queries is none other than your very own personal astrophysicist. Only the ones I know the answer to. Only the ones, which is all of them. That is Dr other than your very own personal astrophysicist. Only the ones I know the answer to. Only the ones which is all of them. That is Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson, who you hear. Yes.

The good doctor is with us. So I was told that segment two is going to be all about balls, and I am absolutely giddy. So here's our first question from James Koltas, who says, what are the physics behind the basketball itself? How do the dimples affect its performance in play? By the way, love the new show. Well, thanks, James. Yes. So that's a great question, because that's borrowing a cue from golf, where the dimples in a golf ball significantly increase how far you can hit it.

Right. So, so as far as I know, and as have ever experimented, the texture on the surface of a basketball has no meaningful value to the play of the ball, other than giving a texture for you to be able to quality of grip to palm the ball. Right. Okay. And if the ball other than giving it texture for you to be able to palm the ball. And if the ball were completely smooth, it would restrict how much control you have over the ball. And that's, you need it for... For that devastating crossover, where I broke your ankles and went to the hole,

take that, your mama don't even love you no more. That's a good your mama joke. So to be able to control the ball moving left and right, up and down, while you're airborne. So that texture matters. And so other than that, aerodynamically, the ball's not moving fast enough. Okay. And it's not in the air long enough. I mean, think of a golf ball, how fast it moves,

how long it's in the air. And so if it has an effect, I don't know of it. It'd be interesting if someone did some other experiments to determine that. Now, what about the seams then? Because, you know, basketball has a very specific pattern. It is specific, but some of that's just tradition. I mean, yeah, yeah. Again, you know, has a very specific it is specific but some of that's just tradition i mean yeah yeah i'm again i'm you know it's not like let me make sure the seams are this

way so that it bounces correctly this is not anybody nobody's that's that's not a thing okay okay and and unlike in soccer where the valve uh changes the weight balance of the ball so if you kick it with a spin in a particular way, the weight of that valve can give it extra movement in one way or another. In a basketball, the basketball is much heavier than a soccer ball. Yes. And I don't know, maybe twice. I don't know.

We'll have to look it up. Yeah, it is a lot heavier. Yeah, sure. So that means the weight of the valve is less compared to the total weight of the ball. Gotcha. And so therefore, it's not going to be torquing it as much as anything else. But here's what's important. Any good ball that you're going to play with has, let me back up.

There are two kinds of collisions that you can have in physics. Okay. An inelastic collision or an elastic collision. Okay. Elastic or inelastic. And all collisions are one or the other or some combination of the two.

So let me give you the extremes. Inelastic collision would be two hot marshmallows colliding. Ooh, that sounds delicious and very sexy. Two hot marshmallows. Right. They stick. They stick. They stock. They're there. Bada bing. There you go. Okay? Now take two Superballs. Okay? Right. They stick, they stock, they're there, bada bing. There you go. Okay.

Now take two Super Bowls, okay? Right. Bounce them, they will just immediately bounce off one another. Right. So one is inelastic, the other is elastic. Okay. So in a perfect elastic collision, such as with a Super Bowl comes closest to it. Do they still call them Super Bowl? Yeah. Yeah, okay. You drop it. It comes maybe 90% up the height from where you let it go. Right, yes, yes, yes. Other balls, halfway up, a third of the way up. A racket ball, not a racket ball, a squash ball.

Squash ball. Oh, man, forget it. Doesn't do anything. It's a tenth of the way up. Exactly. Don't worry, squash ball. That happens to lots of balls. Go ahead.

Don't worry, squash ball. That happens to lots of balls. Go ahead. So you can say, well, where does the energy go when it collides? Because otherwise, bouncing, the energy's still at it kinetically. If they collide and stick, the energy goes back into the thing itself. And that's why in the racket sports, they always say, let's warm up the ball first. Right. That's true.

Got to warm up the ball. So two ways you'll do that. One, with a squash ball, that's just absorbing the heat because it's not coming out any other way. And with racket balls, which are bouncier, if you compress the ball, the ball wants to pop back into shape. Right. But the air inside got compressed. Okay? You're pumping energy every time you hit it into the ball.

And the temperature of the ball rises because of that. So a basketball is mostly elastic. Okay? Mm-hmm. So it bounces nicely. And the more air you put in it, the more elastic it gets. Because if it's only got half air and you collide it, the energy will go to squish it and mush it. And then it's... There's a loss of energy., the energy will go to squish it and mush it.

There's a loss of energy. There's a loss of kinetic energy. So you pump it up, and you don't want to put too much in because then it'll bust. But you put the right amount, and that's all been measured, and everyone would care about it. And then it bounces beautifully. And that is why Tom Brady doesn't play basketball. Because he under-inflates the ball. I'm just wondering, is there a deformation element? Yes, yes. beautifully and that is why tom brady doesn't play basketball because he's he on another planet i'm just wondering is there a deformation element yes yes so you don't see this because it happens

too fast and people really didn't appreciate it until high speed film was introduced oh oh can i tell do we have time for we do have you got a minute for this go ahead okay you ever see those photos of a bullet going through a balloon? Yes. Through an apple? Yes. You ever see these things? Yes.

Love them. You ever wonder how you get that? How you get the bullet? We had photography for 100 years. Oh, you mean the high-speed film? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So shutter speed? It's not just shutter speed.

I would say that. It's not just shutter speed. No, you have to speed the film up. No, fine speed? It's not just shutter speed. I would say that. It's not just shutter speed. No, you have to speed the film up. No, fine, but it's not just shutter speed. Okay. Okay? Because we could have had short shutter speed long ago. Yes, we could have.

And it ain't even about that. It's how much light can you put on that instant so that when you open your shutter, you see what's going on. And the light can't just stay on because it'll blur the whole thing. Right. So it has to strobe at a speed at the same amount that the curve frame, that the film is going through. Okay.

So, oh, if you strobe the light fast enough so it matches the actual speed of the frame, you can catch individual pictures of each single. Of each thing. Oh, that is awesome. I never knew that. Ain't that a thing. What have you done to Chuck's brain? What have you just done to Chuck? Wait a minute.

This is why I love this job. There's a guy at MIT... Oh, that is amazing. ...who perfected the strobe light. His name is Chester Egerton. He perfected the strobe light. He said, I'm going to be photographic badass now. And he first photographed all of these things that the human eye never sees.

Chester the photo light molester. Now, so now in the- We just think I have to get you drug tested after the show. Okay. For sure. Now, just a quick thing. It's going to be too long for this, so put it in extras. Okay.

Okay? Go ahead. In extras. What do you call it? Whatever. All access. All access. Put this in all access.

StarTalk all access.com. Give me one more minute, but put this in all access. Okay. We'll put this in all access.com. So here's an interesting thing. In the movie Bambi. Okay. Okay?

All right. interesting thing. In the movie Bambi, that movie came out at a time when we first photographed the dripping of water into a... Drips of water into a pool of water. And that's the image you get when you see this crown. Have you seen this crown? It, and it comes up in tiny little droplets. And the little droplets on the tip of each tip of the crown. Okay? We said, wow. This is going on before our very eyes, and we never knew it. We could never see it. Because it's happening faster than the brain-eye connection can resolve.

Sweet. Okay? Your eyes see at about a tenth of a second frame rate. And if something's happening at a hundredth of a second, kiss it goodbye. You'll know nothing about it. Totally missed it. Now watch what happened. Disney wanted to take advantage of that.

He said, if this is actually happening during the scene when it begins to rain at the beginning of the movie where the woodland creatures come in, when it begins to rain, he's going to show drops of water making these crowns. Okay. In that movie, those drops of waters are there

with the crowns, but you watch and you say, well, no, something's not right. It's not right because you don't actually see that. It was too real. It was a cartoon that put something so real that it doesn't look real because our brain-eye connection cannot interpret it as such.

So next time you see Bambi, check it out. Now, by the way, at the end of that movie, does he strobe the bullet going through Bambi's arm? Oh, stop. Oh, oh, oh. You went there, didn't you? You just had to go there. He had to go.

He had to go there. Chuck had to go there. Oh, dude, that's amazing. Chuck. So, so. Naughty step. Wait, wait, hold on. So pick it up.

So we have photos now, and now you don't, the film is so sensitive that you can just, and the arena is so well lit, now you don't need a strobe light to get, you don't need it, but if they have it, they'll use it. You know, the high speed sports photographers. So they, so you can see, you can catch the ball right at the bottom, and it's just, it's like one third flat. Yes. Right, when you film it.

And if you get that snapshot, but it's so flat that the picture doesn't look real. I mean, you almost want some blurring in the ball so that it looks like the person is moving. Is in motion. Is in motion. Right. If you freeze everything, it's like... Because you're catching that not, you're not even catching a,

you're catching that at maybe one thousandth of a second. Right. And your eyes are just, will never see that. Never ever see that.

And so, so it's cool, it's physically, it's cool as an exercise in physics, but not as a means to convey action. Right.

Super cool, man. All right, well let well, let's change. Sorry, it took so long to answer that. No, that was fascinating stuff. Chuck and I are... Look how many questions you got. We got tons of questions here. Chuck and I are in the front row of the class for this one.

So I believe it's Inktmi from Instagram. I-N-K-T-M-I. So pronounce that as you wish. I've mangled it. Okay, here's one. It's clear that the elasticity of the ball affects the degree of force necessary for, say, a bounce, pass, dribbling as well.

But what about the playing surface, which allows for the most efficient play that is least force required, and by how much? Blacktop, concrete, or hardwood? That's a great question. Good one. Okay, I will give a slight, I would give a different answer.

Okay. Okay? But then you'll see why I'm giving a different answer. Okay. There is a track at Harvard University. All right. It's a tartan track, which is the rubberized surface. Yeah, like you would see in a stadium.

Yeah, an indoor, oh yes, a stadium track. Okay. In the day, you didn't have those. They were either dirt or something. But anyhow, so tartan was a new kind of surface. And my father ran on indoor tracks that were made of wood. And if you fell, that splintered, right? So he loved tartan tracks.

But here's the thing. What they did at Harvard, they said, we want to make the fastest track in the world. Ooh. So what does that even mean, right? It's just a surface. So here's what they said. Flat track or banked? Doesn't matter. The fastest track in the world. So here's what they said. They said, all right, let us take strobe photos of somebody running on pillows. On pillows.

And make a strobe photo of someone running on absolutely hard cement. Okay? Okay. And look at the forces on the body, the feet, the ankle, the toes, and all the rest. Yes. And look at the efficiency by which you convert your step into forward motion. Yes. Okay?

Okay? And what they found was it is not peaking in either of those extremes. There is something in between those extremes that maximizes the energy

that you give to the ground and the energy the ground gives back to you with a slight flex. Right. Okay? Because the with a slight flex. Right.

Okay? Because the cement doesn't flex. No. I mean, the concrete doesn't flex, and the pillows flex too much. Yes. So they found, it was a maximization problem in engineering, and they maximized it, and people started breaking records on the track, and the amateur athletic union said, we cannot count records on this track.

It is too fast. It's too fast. That's correct. That's correct. Well, why not just make all tracks out of this stuff? What the hell? What was that about? It's OK, this didn't happen last week.

This is many, many years ago, Chuck. OK, so now watch. So to bounce the best is the combination of what is the flex of the ground relative to the flex of the ball. Okay? Yeah. And so it's not obvious just without doing the experiments what the best combination of those two would be. That's all I'm saying. You have to run those experiments. And so I would guess that a blacktop

playground surface is not as good as a hardwood, which has some give to it. Because the ball, when it hits, some of that's going to go to the wood, the surface, but you want the surface to sort of give it back. Give it back. This is why they don't use artificial legs for the amputees in sprints, they have blades. Blades. Because the blade compresses and gives back energy. And gives back the energy. So the other thing is, as we learned in our-

Because this energy, you gave it just by the arc of every step you take. Right. Because you left the ground. You left the ground and you're coming back down. Now, where's that energy going? And if I'm using my legs, it's absorbing it, it heats up my leg,

it's pumping blood, it's doing stuff that's not going to propel me forward. The blade will do it. We learned through our show when we did gymnastics that the floors The tumbling floors That gymnasts use They're sprung

So they're not flat floors That we thought Didn't we Okay So now you've spring loaded A basketball court Happy days And not only that

Okay And of course Professional wrestling rings Yes Also sprung Yes are also sprung. Yes. Yeah. Very sprung.

Cool. Yes. Do you have another question? No, actually, we got to take a break, and then we'll come back to our next segment. My answer is too long? No, as long as they're interesting. No, your answer is fabulous. Listen, it's not a cocktail party, and you're not boring us, so who cares?

It's fascinating stuff. That's all we care about. All right. But I want to get through people writing questions. They want the questions. Those questions will still be here, and this show is not getting canceled anytime soon. Someone knock wood right now, please.

And the universe will still be there. Right, we'll take... Okay, for those of you listening, Neil just knocked on my head. All right, we'll take that break. We'll be back shortly with more of your questions and more of the good doctor stay tuned welcome back this is playing with science i'm gary o'reilly i'm chuck nice and

this of course is our basketball cosmic query with your questions and of course neil degrasse tyson here to answer them so chuck fire away with question one okay let's uh segment three we got is this lightning round we're gonna get to the lightning round maybe okay we don't have a bell so i don't know if we can do a lightning round okay for those of you who are star talk fans if you have listened then you know that at the end of any cosmic query uh the last five minutes we answer as many questions as possible in that period of time and ne Neil, in his brevity, at the end of that answer, will give a ding on a bell. But we're coming to you from Mashable today. And it doesn't seem as though there is a bell here.

You know, it's one of those little... It's a counter bell. Like, you know, a short order cook bell. You know, like, ding, order up, ding, that type of deal. So, maybe I'll just do that. Maybe. And ding when you're done. Okay.

But let's get to our question. It's a DMV bell, too. Oh, yeah. Get attention. Okay. Here we go. Brian Mendicino wants to know this. What do scientists need to achieve in the lab to make Michael Jordan's game-winning dunk in the movie Space Jam a reality?

Okay, first of all, I would have to have seen Space Jam. I didn't get fully through Space Jam. I didn't see Space Jam at all because Michael Jordan was in it. And I'm just going to say acting ain't his strong suit. As soon as I saw it, it's a movie with Michael Jordan. I don't care if it's for kids or not. I am not wasting my money on that. Everyone's a critic. Here's the biggest

insult. Even Shaq was a better actor. Hello. Thank you. I like gold bomb powder. My name is Shaquille O'Neal. I like gold bomb powder. All right. We're not getting an answer to this question, are we? He's not in the room. I look at Gary. Gary's like, you know, you're messing

with a seven-foot something monster of a man. He's not in the room. I look at Gary. Gary's like, you know, you're messing with a seven foot something monster of a man. Yeah. But anyway. I'm sorry. He's going to come and find you. He's going to come

and get you. I can't answer that. Sorry. My bad. Because maybe, you know, my bad. There you go.

Well, sorry. Okay, here we are. Wolfomo on Instagram. How did Spud Webb at five foot seven win the NBA

slam dunk contest? What does it take from a physiological standpoint to have such an incredible vertical leap? Okay, so Spud Webb was 5'7 tall, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. You know, when you said Spud Webb, I was thinking of Spuds McKenzie. Spuds McKenzie.

By the way. The bulldog. That's a dunking contest I want to see. Spuds Webb and Spuds McKenzie. Spud Webb and Spud McKenzie. Spud Webb versus Spud McKenzie. For the chips, all the chips. Okay, so the question is what? He's 5'7".

He's 5'7". The question is what? How is it that he can dunk the way he dunks? Yes, the vertical leap. Okay, so the first time I ever dunked, I was in ninth grade and I was five feet nine. Wow. Wow. So that's only two inches taller than he is.

And he's a professional. Right? So you had a pretty decent vertical. I grew up in the Bronx. Right on. Okay. Just back up. You had to be able to dunk.

Give me space here when I'm talking about this. Do your thing, man. No, I can't mess with the Bronx. I know what that is. The Bronx. No, no. I grew up in a rather tame part of the Bronx. I'm talking about this. Do your thing, man. You know I can't mess with the Bronx. I know what that is. The Bronx. No, no, I grew up in a rather tame part of the Bronx. I'm from Queens. I'm just saying.

All right. So. Carry on, please. Okay. Go ahead. So I think the bigger challenge of dunking a ball is not how high you can jump, but can you control the ball with your hand?

Oh, okay. Okay? Because as you're going up, now you have to turn the ball around and bring it down. All right. And if you're not really holding on to the ball, as you go up, the ball could keep going. Yeah, right. At the peak of your jump, you have to still be able to maneuver the ball. At the peak of your jump, you have to still be able to maneuver the ball.

And so I could not dunk the ball until I was able to basically palm the ball. Right. That's right. And that is why I am the best dunker in the world, because I have extremely, extremely large, very, very large hands. That's right. I had to do it. I'm sorry. Are you happy now? I am happy.

Good. I have to say. It was gratuitous, and I liked it. Go ahead. If I ever shake hands with him, do you want a full report? Oh, my God, I'm sorry. Are you happy now? I am happy. Good. I have to say, it was gratuitous and I liked it. Go ahead. If I ever shake hands with him, do you want a full report? Oh my God, yes. Okay. If you ever shake hands with him, please.

If I ever shake hands with him, okay, fine. Go ahead. So there is a way to dunk the ball even if you can't palm the ball. And that is always have the ball moving, always be such that your hand is pushing the ball right okay so you have to sort of come up from behind so i'm pushing the ball pushing the ball horizontally upwards and then and then back right so isn't there a point where it's basically you're you're stationary but the ball looks as if it's stuck to your hand. Yes, exactly, because you have to come around a curve to make that happen.

So that's a way to do it if you can't palm the ball. I don't remember if Spud Webb could palm the ball. I don't remember. Yeah. But, I mean, just think, the reason why everyone is so acrobatic dunking the ball is because we think of the dunk as this extreme limit of your jump.

We just barely make that happen. But for these guys, they can dunk it on the way down after their elbow had cleared the rim. Okay. So, so now we see spud dunking and we're thinking that so, so yes, they call jump. They all jump. Okay. So because you have the secret of vertical jump and you're from the Bronx, is it right white men can't jump?

And why? Why can't white men jump? Yeah. Wait, I got to take this one, Neil. I'm sorry. There is a wonderful. You got to answer for me. There's an old comedian.

I shouldn't say that. There's a comedian who I have admired for many, many years. And he did all the writing for Richard Pryor, all the writing for the show in living color. And his name is Paul Mooney. Oh, yeah. Oh, and he talks like this. And he goes, oh, everybody wants to know why white men can't jump. They don't have to.

They own the team. Everybody wants to know why white men can't jump. They don't have to. They own the team. That isn't really the answer I was looking for. It is, however. It's the answer I'm getting. It's the answer.

It is the answer. I'm getting that answer. It also reminds me of a Richard Pryor joke. So Paul Mead might have written this joke. Richard Pryor live on the Sunset Strip. What was his first movie? Not Sunset Strip, the other one. Well, I can't say the name.

This N-word's crazy. No, no, no. Not that album? No, no, no. But anyway, go ahead. So there's a, he's got a joke on there where he said, where the cops were chasing him when he was a kid. And they had a Doberman and they sent the dog running after him. Right. And he said, Doberman will catch your average white boy.

But not really. Turn his hat backwards and just. Oh, I remember that. Right, right, right. Because like he'd turn his hat backwards and he was like in fourth gear or something like that. Right, right, right, right. Because he'd turn his hat backwards and he was in fourth gear or something like that. Right, right, right. And they'd say,

catch your average. So this thing with the athletics and there's a lot of lore and mysticism and slave trade discussions. Right. And I'm not convinced of any of it. Your disposition of fast twitch muscles

and everything like that, density. You don't want to get me started on that. Uh-oh. I've been told. Okay, we got a minute before the lightning round. don't want to get me started on that. Uh-oh. I've been told. Okay, we got a minute before the lightning round. Now I want to hear about this. Here's why.

Oh, you want to hear? I want to hear about fast twist, slow twist muscles and all that kind of stuff. You said I didn't want to get you started, but you didn't say about Chuck. Okay, Chuck can get me started. There you go. I just, the urge for people to assert that athletic talent manifested in black people is genetic, but athletic talent manifested in white people is through hard-earned work, continues and knows no bounds. And I'm stupefied by the extent at depth to which this is invoked. That was artfully and beautifully put i can tell you that you know what without going any further because you you basically you're

positing a question what what makes you think that right and i think that that's i think that's perfect so there's michael jordan who was what sixth round draft pick or something yes he was and people forget that that. Whatever the number was, it was not what you think it would have been. He was not number one. Given the best player of all time. Right. Goat. The goat.

Greatest of all time. The goat. So he gets better, and now he's the greatest of all time, and people say, oh, that's genetic. That fucker worked hard, okay? I think it was the second round pick, by the way. Second round, right, right.

But still, you wouldn't think that the greatest of all time would ever have been the second round of anything. Or am I thinking of Tom Brady? Now I've got to look it up, because Tom Brady was also a number. No, no, I think it was lower down, if not in college, certainly if not in pros, certainly in college, he wasn't a starter. There were some facts about him. There is nothing, if you're pros, certainly, you know, in, in college, he wasn't a starter. There was some facts about him.

There is nothing. If you're an elite athlete and the very top of the elite athletes that you get without work, you just cannot just walk in off the street and go, I'm the ready made. Right. So for someone to say, Oh,

they're natural. And then you part the curtains, they're working out 80 hours a week. Yeah. They're naturally working hard. Now, maybe some people enjoy that and so they then become better. And if you have a hard time putting in your time, it's not going to happen with you.

And maybe that's what we should be measuring about you. Not the ultimate talent you express, but your capacity to practice on a level to achieve that talent in the first place. There you go. All right. All right. All right. Ring that bell.

Let's move on to our lightning round now. That was great. Here we go. God, these questions are so long. One other thing. One other thing. Okay, go ahead. There was an Olympics a few decades ago.

Yeah. Because a lot of this is invoked in the Olympics. Oh, the Africans. So I have an article in Time Magazine that is describing why the Africans will win every sprint and every distance race in that upcoming Olympics. It's explaining why that will be the case. And it's talking about the slow twitch, fast twitch, and all this genetics. Okay. And I was so happy when a white person won the marathon.

I was going to say, yeah. No, there was some, it did not come through the way this was, the way they. I was going to say, clearly they don't know the Germans because they're great marathon runners too, as well as South Africans are also great marathon runners. They pop up all over the place. Yeah, that's it.

They pop up. That's the point. They pop up. Now you can say, well, okay, statistically, I'm just saying, I'm just tired of that. Not all, you got me started. Okay, go for it. 1968, Bob'm just saying, I'm just tired of that. No, no, wait, you got me started. Okay, go for it. 1968, Bob Beeman.

Yes, Mexico City. Mexico City, watch. My boy breaks the long jump by a foot, basically. Right. He leaps out of the sand pit. Crazy, whatever it was. It might have been more than that, but around that amount. Okay?

This is a race. This is an event where you break the record by an inch. Right. Not by a foot. Right. Okay, so watch what happens. Here they come. Well, the lower air density at altitude of Mexico City is,

he's moving through lower air density, and it goes on. Again, no one is saying maybe he just kicked ass that day. Right. So now. And that record stood for some time. So here's my point. If you're going to say he jumped 10 inches, 12 inches farther because the air density was lower, might you expect everyone to have jumped 10 inches farther on that day?

And they did not. Oh, very good point. Yes. Right. Okay. Wait, maybe they just had a bad day. And they did not. Ooh. Very good point. Yes. Right. Okay. Wait, maybe they just had a bad day all at the same time. All at the same time. Everybody was just...

Everybody had the same... See, the other thing is with the sprinters... Oh, there's one other thing. At high altitude, there's lower force of gravity. So you go a little... So you can calculate how much effect this will give you, but it was not manifested in everyone. My point is that at the highest elite point,

your body gets you only so far and your brain takes you the rest of the way, which is how it is that you can set your own world record. How's that even possible? Today, but not yesterday. Right. Today, but not tomorrow. Yeah. Your brain took you there.

Right. Yeah. You're really right. It's about the instance of performance. Yes. It is not about all that other stuff. And now they understand. Once you're there. Once you're really right it's about the instance of performance yes it is not about all that other stuff once you're there once everybody's there

it's not about that anymore it's not about that anymore it's the instance of performance you've got so much of a support team right so much more of a system

and structure around an athlete that's at the very very top as opposed to Bob Beeman back in 1968 wow but then again

with the sprinters, for instance, they won't have factored in. You could have a false start and then be ejected from the race altogether. And that happens quite often. Okay. So listen, I think it's fascinating.

I'm glad. No, I'm glad we got into it. I mean, this is the stuff that we normally wouldn't get into. I think it's great, but all right, we're running out of time and running out of show,

but I got to ask you this one last question because I need you, because I need to just feel like I need to hear what you think. Chris Keely from Facebook wants to know this. Does one of Einstein's thought experiments explain how it is possible for the last minute of every game to last 20 minutes or more? Yeah, it's just Einsteinian, the time dilation of Einstein's special theory of relativity. It's very clear. We've known about this. We haven't told you.

Breaking news. Yeah. In physics, we've done this calculation with the two-minute warning. Right. And that is when time-dilated special relativity effects kick in. But we were afraid that people

would just freak out. Freak out. And so we've withheld this information, but you were hearing it here on Playing With Science for the very first time. For our own good. It is. It is indeed time dilation.

It is time dilation manifest on the gridiron, yes. Or on a basketball court. On the hardwood or on the gridiron. Every place except baseball because that's boring from the start. And the people who are manipulating the space-time continuum to make sure that happens are the TV advertisers. Right. Absolutely. So you are guardians of the universe on our behalf. We're guardians of the last two minutes of all sports events of the universe.

We're guardians of the last two minutes of the universe. Okay. They own the last two minutes. That sports events of the universe. Your guardians are the last two minutes of the universe. Okay, they earned the last two minutes. That's that dealt with. I think that's us dealt with as well. Yes, exactly. Oh, this was a fun show, man. A thank you to Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson for sharing his thoughts and your questions. Fabulous.

And thank you so much, Chuck. That's it. That's it. We've got to say goodbye. Got to say goodbye. It's Playing With Science for now. Stay tuned. We'll be back much, Chuck. That's it. We've got to say goodbye. It's Playing With Science for now. Stay tuned. We'll be back with another show very, very soon. Bye.