StarTalk Radio - #ICYMI - Surf’s Up – The Big Waves (Repeat)

Episode Date: August 9, 2018

Grab your board, apply your sunscreen, and get ready to find the perfect wave – re-visit the science of big wave surfing featuring Chuck Nice, Gary O’Reilly, NASA oceanographer Bill Patzert and pro surfer and the first female Big Wave World Champion, Paige Alms.Don’t miss an episode of Playing with Science. Please subscribe to our channels on:Apple Podcasts: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/playing-with-science/id1198280360TuneIn: https://tunein.com/podcasts/Science-Podcasts/Playing-with-Science-p952100/GooglePlay Music: https://play.google.com/music/listen?u=0#/ps/Iimke5bwpoh2nb25swchmw6kzjqSoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/startalk_playing-with-scienceStitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/startalk/playing-with-scienceNOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free here: https://www.startalkradio.net/all-access/surfs-up-the-big-waves-repeat/Photo Credit: Erik Aeder, courtesy of www.paigealms.com Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to new episodes ad-free and a whole week early.

I'm Gary O'Reilly and I'm Chuck and this is playing with science today we head for the beach and we are so amped yes we are we may shoot the curl we might have to bail. We will probably get mullered, and if you understand any of that, you then are no Barney. Dude. That's the only surfer term I know. You know, helping us to stay away from the gnarly stuff and steer us to the serious science of the big waves is William Patzert,

oceanographer at NASA, and super cool surfer dude himself from California. Then we go all pro with professional surfer and big wave champion, Paige Alms, who is based in Maui. Yeah. I don't like her already. Isn't that cool?

Right. There are few sites in sport that are as awesome as seeing a surfer take on the big waves, make that huge descent, and then emerge through the barrel. It is breathtaking and possibly the most fun you can have with physics. And when I say awesome, I don't mean it in that cliched way. I actually really mean it is awesome.

Yeah, it is. It's a beautiful thing to behold, to watch somebody drop in and ride a wave and shoot the curl and come out at the end of that barrel and stand up it really looks like a human being triumphing over the entire ocean take that mother nature albeit temporarily because we don't like to upset her that's for sure she does have a temper so introduce our new best friend our new best friend is mr bill patzert who is a nasa oceanographer and a former surfer oh i don't know should i say former bill welcome to the show and do you still surf my

friend okay aloha dudes uh i could have been i should have been a contender, but I spent too much time in the classroom, got my PhD, but I've been surfing now for over 50 years. Way. A lot of surfing. Take a bow, sir. Wow. That's fabulous. That is amazing. So that's a lifelong surfing career, really.

You seem to have a unique approach on the sport of surfing, being an oceanographer. approach on the sport of surfing, being an oceanographer. So has it been an advantage to have this, I'll call it inside knowledge of the oceans as regards to getting the best out of your surfing? Well, you know, the answer to that, of course, is yes and no. You know, it's one thing to know the physics, but it's another thing to be a great surfer. All world-class athletes, either you have it or you don't. And I definitely did not have it, all right? All right. Modesty is – we appreciate some modesty.

Yeah, yeah. What would be the biggest wave you actually claim to have surfed? Well, you know, back in the 60s and the early 70s, I lived in Hawaii. I was at graduate school at the University of Hawaii. And the schedule was you'd get up before dawn. If the surf was up, head for the North Shore, you know, either Sunset Beach or Makaha. That's right. You know, I can remember paddling out and all of a sudden finding myself looking down the face of a 25-foot wave and thinking, what the hell am I doing here?

All right. And so I definitely met, almost met my maker. But, you know, it was exciting. It was exhilarating. And I actually dropped in and wiped out. And that was it. Was that the extent of your big wave surfing career right there? Something you said about you going out to Sunset Beach pre-dawn made me think, because we're going to get on to where we find the biggest waves in the world. But you said all of a sudden, instantly, a 25-foot wave pops up. Now, there's got to be a reason why all of a sudden a wave that wasn't there is there in an instant.

Well, you know, the great waves in the world are really a question of where the great storms develop, which build these great waves as they travel across the world's oceans. You know, in California, what comes to mind is the great maverick swell north of San Francisco, where waves reach 50 feet. Wow. Yeah, that definitely separates the girls from the women and the boys from the men. And, of course, Hawaii is very famous. Yeah.

Waimea Bay, when Waimea Bay closes out on a huge day, spectacular, 50 to 60 foot waves. But, you know, there are different places, Tahiti, South Africa, even in the Atlantic. Australia is famous for its big waves. There are even great waves that form offshore, away from the continents, that are totally phenomenal. So there are these unique locations around the world. And Kelly Slater will be able to tell you about that. Absolutely. And then from a standpoint of oceanography, what causes the waves to form? Simply, it's the wind blowing across the sea surface

that develops these waves. Now, for large waves, there are three factors. A great storm in the North Pacific, how long that storm blows and continues to develop, the strength of the storm, you know, sometimes you get winds 100, 200 miles an hour. And then how large an area. So that's the duration, the strength, and the fetch

of the storm. And now, of course, here at NASA, with the advent of satellite technology, we monitor these storms all over the world. We can watch them develop, strengthen, see how long they last, like with the giant hurricanes of the last couple of weeks. And using models, we can actually forecast how large and when these giant waves will arrive at various locations across the planet. Wow.

So your phone rings or you get an email from basically all the top surfers in the world who want to ride the big stuff. Oh, yes. So these guys are definitely tuned in to wave forecasting websites. to wave forecasting websites. So, you know, you can get on your iPhone and look at where the giant waves are going to arrive, whether it's California, Tahiti, Australia. You know, these waves are the great,

what I call the great world travelers. They travel all the way from the Southern Ocean around Antarctica, all the way to California. And we can forecast these waves almost a week ahead of time. Wow, that's a surfer's dream. You have a whole week to get there. And are they ever disappointed to you? Ever like, you know, hey, you're looking at 30 footers and 40 footers and you end up with, you know, five footers.

Does that ever happen? Oh, yeah. Of course, you know, like all great forecasters, they blow a forecast. But what these models, what they do is they take the information from these great storms and they feed it into models. And then at different locations across the planet, they actually have these buoys out in the ocean that measure the waves. And so you can update the model, all right, to verify it. That's super cool, man. So let me ask you this.

Switching gears just a little bit. Back to you being a surfer. What makes a good wave? Well, you know, these great storms, they generate waves of many wavelengths from, you know, a few inches or a few centimeters up to waves that have three to four hundred feet of wavelength now the interesting thing about waves is that depending on the wavelength the length between the peaks and a big swell the longer wavelengths travel faster and so the first of waves to arrive from a giant storm are usually these very small, smooth, long period waves. Right. The precursors.

And of course, these are the waves that surfers love. You get essentially anywhere between 15 and 25 seconds between the peaks. And if the storm is large enough, these great swells can generate waves anywhere between 10, 25, 30, even 40-foot waves. And of course, the real surfers, the guys and the gals that live the sport, these are the waves they love. They're smooth. They have one large wavelength. And, of course, as they hit, these are the waves that definitely all surfers live for.

But that is interesting, that waves, the longer waves travel faster. And so usually they're the first to arrive. Follow the next day, usually by what we call storm surf, which is mixed surf of all different wavelengths. Yeah. OK. Many surfers call slop slop. Yeah. And so what you want are these long period waves that are the first arriving waves. Gotcha. So it's a small window of opportunity if it's only going to last a day or so. Yes.

The best waves are usually less than one day. And you could travel half of the way around the world or further just for one day on the board. I've forecasted waves. These waves, of course, I call them great travelers. They travel across what we call great circles, which is the shortest distance from one place to another. But I've seen great storms in the Indian Ocean. And more than a week later, they arrive on the coast of California. And so these are truly world travelers. Wow. Wow. And that's from the same weather system,

the same storm that created that one wave. And that wave, so why is it that the waves is is it just a matter of inertia unless they're disrupted they will continue to travel uh around the world as long as they don't encounter any other force to to stop them from being that wave oh yes exactly there are there are cases for instance the great a different kind of a wave is a tsunami wave. Yeah. And some of these great tsunami waves that were generated in the Indian Ocean, they were actually measured in California and even in the Atlantic. And so these are truly great, yeah, great world travelers. That is amazing.

And that is amazing that one single wave could pretty much traverse the entire, almost the whole planet. Unbelievable. The other interesting thing is that sometimes you get giant storms in the northern hemisphere and giant storms in the southern hemisphere at the same time. And they can essentially merge and create even larger waves oh stop it bill you're scaring me you're scaring me bill no i like that wave sex that's a little wave sex happening right see what you've done now you've pressed that button in his head oh man you just made the ocean very sexy my friend friend. All right, Bill. While we hose Chuck down, we are going to take a short break. When we come back, more with Bill Patzert, our NASA oceanographer and lifelong surfer.

Stick around. I'm sure there'll be more. None of that, Chuck. More brilliant news about surfing and the waves in the ocean. Stick around. We'll be back shortly. Welcome back. I'm Gary O' Stick around. We'll be back shortly. Welcome back. I'm Gary O'Reilly.

And I'm Chuck Nice. And this, of course, is Playing With Science, but with a little bit of surf action thrown in. And we'll be talking surfing and wave science with NASA oceanographer Bill Patzert. And we like Bill because he's unlocked quite a few secrets for us so far. Yeah, he really has. And you know what? We're not giving him his due. It's actually Dr for us so far. Yeah, he really has. And you know what?

We're not giving him his due. It's actually Dr. Patzert. I mean, I know. Sorry. No worries. We both did it. You know, I just wanted to make sure that people know that, you know, Bill is a PhD. We're not just talking to, you know, some guy who hangs loose on the beach and knows some surfing tips.

This man has all bases covered. know some surfing tips, this man has all bases covered. Okay, Bill, let's get into a little bit of ocean floor and how that can create the monster waves that we see from time to time in certain places around the globe. And what's that place you were talking about, Gary, earlier, off-air people? Gary was talking about this place in Portugal?

Yeah, Portugal's not possibly really on the map of the big wave sort of thinking, but it has a unique set of circumstances under the sea. We're not going to sing that song, but I won't. So, Dr. Bill, please explain why Nazaire on the west coast of Portugal is so special to the world of surfing,

and in particular big waves well earlier we talked a little bit about how these giant waves are generated by these giant storms with the duration the fetch and then how they traveled across the planet and of course when they approach theline, there are many different kinds of coastline. But the waves, essentially, when they start to feel the ocean bottom, so now we're talking about geology, all right, is that the bottom of the wave will get cut out from underneath, like having your legs cut out from underneath you. The top of the wave moves faster and this can happen over many different kinds of topographies can happen over for instance uh when

you have ocean canyons that come offshore or ridges on both sides of the canyon as the way feels it you can get these unique kinds of waves Another kind of wave are the waves that break in the Pacific, like off Hawaii and Tahiti, where they hit very rapidly a reef face. Yeah. These phenomenal waves which create these heavy, heavy tubes that are so very photogenic. Yes. tubes that are so very photogenic yes but you know off nazir in portugal there is a canyon and essentially it focuses the wave energy in such a way that giant either south atlantic or north atlantic storms as they approach the coast will create these gigantic waves. Now, if I remember correctly, I think the tallest wave that's ever been ridden was at Nazir off the coast of Portugal.

I forget the chap's name. Kelly might remember. But I think... Garrett McNamara. Yeah. I think it was a 78-foot wave, they estimated. Wow. 78 feet. Off Naz estimated. Wow, 78 feet. Right, 78 feet.

It's a totally phenomenal video. And were provisions made for his family? Did they do anything to help his family after he was taken from us, this young man who surfed the 78 foot wave yes spoken like a true grammy man you don't believe her you know thank you bill i love it a lot of people have been hurt surfing you know including myself we all made mistakes yeah yeah so no really though this guy but not many fatalities. No, no, no. That's why I can joke like that, because it really isn't. And I'm sure he didn't die. He didn't. Yeah. that make it success if you if you if you wipe out at all? Is it still considered riding the wave?

What is considered success when you're dropping in on a giant wave like that? Well, for me personally, is being on the beach with that kind of a wave. I consider that success. Yeah, we hear you. I see. But you see if you're going to ride one of those waves

oh Chuck Chuck no he caught me off he caught me off guard with that one I got to tell you the three of us sitting on the beach

would be success there you go you know what you might as well put some bikini clad women next to us while you're at it there Bill yeah

dream on you know the but the you know the the men and women that live for these giant waves of course is to drop in you know but they get towed in up the face of that wave and make it out the other end right but is it right they get towed in because you can't paddle quick enough because these waves aren't moving at seven, eight miles an hour. They're moving closer to maybe 25 miles per hour.

Well, you know, that's, you know, Laird Hamilton, essentially he pioneered these giant waves. Remember, the longer the wavelength, the faster the wave. the faster the wave. So the real trick, the physics of large wave riding is to be able to paddle fast enough to get into that wave. And some of these waves are just too powerful and too rapid. And so Laird Hamilton, he pioneered this where they tow you in with a speedboat, a water ski and uh and actually

build enough velocity where you can catch up with the wave and drop off the lip right and so that you know that's really state of the art all right now for some purists, that's not acceptable. Ah. You know, I've seen some really powerful surfers actually can drop into what other surfers have to be towed into. But, you know, that changed big wave surfing, though, the tow-in, aired by Hamilton and his buddies. All right. So if I'm, because I'm now an all pro sofa, just because I've spoken to you, I've absorbed all of that talent. If I'm going to ride a vertical face of a wave, 60, 70 foot high, what sort of physics is keeping me and my scrawny backside on this board as I descend? And what is keeping that board on that wave wave because when you look at some of these guys

like like gary said it's almost like a vertical drop right it is it is almost a vertical drop well the physics are simple is is that two things are working on a surfer one is gravity which tends to want to dump you into the water and the the other is buoyancy, which is your board, which keeps you on top of the wave. And of course, it's a dance when you're on that board is how to use the gravity against the buoyancy, moving up and down the board, all right, to stay in the wave, on the board. And if you have to, for instance, switching from one side of the board or from the front of the board to the back of the board. And so this is the great dance that all great surfers master. So they've learned to change the center of gravity on the board

by this little dance that you said, either left, right, or backwards and forwards. Exactly, right, or backwards and forwards. Exactly. Amazing. And so, of course, with the great surfers, like with all great athletes, this becomes almost intuitive. It is intuitive because it happens so rapidly, so rapidly. But, you know, this is, you know, and you can watch these people when they ride these giant waves. It's such a high velocity with so much water overhead and so much danger if you get wiped out. How they maintain their cool and maneuver on that board across the face of a 50-foot wave.

and maneuver on that board across the face of a 50-foot wave, that's one of the great athletic feats, I think, of any sport. Speaking of tidal forces and big waves, could you surf a tsunami? Because when you look at a tsunami like the terrible one that we saw, what was it? Aki in the Indian Ocean. In the Indian Ocean. Yeah. When you looked at the resorts where the wave came in, it didn't really look like a surfing wave. It just looked like rising water, like relentless, unrelenting rising water.

So my question is, is that how a tsunami works? Or could you actually surf a tsunami? Well, a tsunami is usually caused by a large-scale displacement, usually near a coastline in the ocean. Right, like an earthquake or something, right? Whereas wind waves are at the surface of the ocean, tsunamis go from top to bottom. So in the open ocean, the tsunami is traveling at about 500 miles an hour. Oh, get out. 500 miles an hour, dude.

That's jet airplane speeds. That's amazing. And it's only a few inches high in the open ocean right but as it approaches the coastline and it starts to feel the bottom yes that wave all right will slow down from 500 miles an hour but when it comes ashore it's at 50 to 75 miles an hour so that's three times faster than a wind wave not only that it, it's a wall of water, and whereas a wind wave might have a period between wave peaks of 20, 25 seconds,

a tsunami has a period of 20 to 30 minutes. So it's never ending. So when you see see it coming ashore it's coming ashore at 50 miles an hour continuously for 45 minutes oh my goodness all right and so that's a tremendous amount of power and so you know that's a great myth that you're going to surf a tsunami okay gotcha so you know and that's what you hear about when you hear people talk about tsunamis is like, oh, dude, I'm going to go out, I'm going to shred a tsunami. And like you say, it's just, that's all for effect. That just never is going

to happen. Yeah, the physics are all wrong. The physics are wrong. Awesome. Dude, that was amazing. Because you're a lifelong surfer, Bill, and you are a doctor, an oceanographer at NASA, what are your surf tips? If you had to give us one or two top surf tips, what would they be? Well, the most important one is use sunscreen. Smart move. Smart move. See, he really is a doctor. He really is a doctor. I've been putting my dermatologist kids through college. Oh, he really is a doctor. He really is a doctor. You know, I've been putting my dermatologist kids through college. Oh, dear. I would have used a hell of a lot more sunscreen. All right.

Right. Right. Right. And I would have been easier on my knees and my shoulders. All right. OK. Absolutely. Yeah. Like all great aging athletes. Absolutely. Yeah. Like all great aging athletes, you know, my body parts are all wearing out now. And so what I look for now is I like a nice six foot day on my boogie board. All right. OK. All right. Plenty of sunscreen. There you go. Plenty of sunscreen and enjoy the boogie board. That's a listen. I'll take that advice. Yeah, I'm good with that. That's about as that's as uh as much as i can do anyway you know well you guys are still young and good looking you know so you know well look at that zero it's all a matter of opinion i was going to say oh for two ain't bad right yeah bill it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on board thank you man this was really

fun talking about this stuff i learned some some stuff too, which is awesome. Unlocking the science behind, and particularly the physics behind surfing has been really quite an eye-opener. So to Bill Patzer from NASA as an oceanographer, Dr. Bill, thank you so much. Okay, thanks. It was a pleasure. We are going to take a break, but please don't go away.

You've learned the science. Now stick around and find out what it's like to ride the big waves yes with the first female big wave world champion surfer page arms it won't get any better than this stick around see you shortly welcome back i'm gary o'reilly and i'm chuck Chuck Nice. And this, of course, is Playing With Science. And today, as you will know, because you've been listening all the way through, is surfing and the big waves. Bill Patzerts has given us all of the data and knowledge

about why, how, where big waves go and come from. But really, there's only one thing we need, and that is what it's like to be on a board on a big wave. And for that, we need a surfer. And for that, we go to Paige Arms, who is not just a surfer. She is a professional surfer, but not just a professional surfer. She is the 2016 Women's Big Wave World Champion. Wow.

Yes. Paige, welcome to Playing With Science. Hi, guys. Thanks for having me on the show. You are so welcome yeah you if i'm not mistaken were the first female surfer ever to barrel at jaws how long ago was that that was almost three years ago what an incredible moment how how when you emerge from that barrel what were your immediate emotions i was in complete shock that it actually

happened i had been dreaming about that wave and that moment for a very long time and it was almost something kind of far-fetched at the time um i'd been watching my friends who get barreled at Jaws quite often and just analyzing what they do and the waves that they choose. And it just popped up and came to me. And I knew right when the wave looked at me that it was the one and the one that I wanted. I read once when you barrel that your nose drove it, the nose of your board drove itself into the face of the wave. Now, there's got to be a reason why that's a good thing, because I'm thinking I'm trying to get away from this wall of water personally. So please explain how that kind of works. Yeah, well, it's not just the nose.

It's the whole rail line of the board all right i was riding a nine foot four inch board which is about a foot shorter than what i'd say 90 percent of um the lineup was on and why did you go there why did you choose that when you obviously bucking the trend um well it's what i felt comfortable on and it's a different board design that um my boyfriend and i have been working on he's my my shaper so it's basically a shorter wider um board that's basically made for using the rail line of the board to kind of we say um knife into the water which is basically cutting into the water at high speeds. You're making me a surfer dude, Paige.

I'm learning all the language. Yeah, it's really, it's a more technical way of riding big waves than the standard hang on and ride the wave straight and go to the bottom. It's basically taking, riding a shortboard and doing this technical surfing that we do on smaller waves and taking it into big wave surfing. So basically, I just wrote a smaller board that day and it was really clean and glassy. And that doesn't happen very often at Jaws. Usually there's a lot of wind and bump on the face of the waves and

that wave in particular let me in kind of I would say easier than most and basically I describe it as the nose of my board pulling me down the face it gave me momentum and speed to bottom turn and come up into the smooth cabin of a bill. Wow. Has your style, shape, length of board become the norm? Have more surfers picked it up? Or is it just something that works for you? Well, there's quite a few of us riding shorter boards out there.

I still, like the Jaws contest last winter was really windy and really challenging. And I ended up taking out my 10 four, which is a board that I've ridden a lot out there. Um, so there's a time and a place for certain equipment. It's like skiing or snowboarding. You choose your, your boards and your tools for the day and the conditions. And for sure, there's a lot more people going shorter just because of the curvature of the wave and how steep the takeoff is. A certain radius only fits in that curve. So if you're going on a 12-foot board on these waves, it just doesn't fit in the curvature of the waves.

You've got the science down, haven't you? Yeah. So do you study the curvature of the wave you've got the science down haven't you yeah you're so do you do you study the physics of waves uh do so for surfers do that or is it something that's more intuitive because it's like you know you you figure it out because you're experiencing it um i'd say a little bit of both like for sure i know quite a lot about um why waves break and where and all of that but definitely i, I'd say I would lean more towards just the feeling of being in the ocean, the more time you spend out in the water, it almost becomes second nature. Like it's not even a thought process more rather than just an

action of knowing when a wave is coming or where to be. It's not Oh my gosh, am I in the wrong spot? Or do I need to be three feet more this way? don't even think about it you just do so for sure it's definitely more of an intuitive thing have you ever had any real bad wipeouts on a big wave because i've seen footage of you sort of descending on your backside down the face of what is a rather large wave yeah for sure definitely wipeouts are kind of all a part of surfing in general like um when you're teaching a friend how to surf and they're kind of at the stage where they're feeling a little bit self-conscious because they're falling all the time and people are looking at them well we fall all the time as professionals so it's kind of a normal um but in big wave surfing it's

something that i try to avoid at all costs i've had i've had plenty of sessions where i've gone out and ridden four or five really good waves in the course of a few hours and not fallen and not taken any wipeouts or waves on the head and they've been very successful um but then a lot of those wipeouts you learn things that you wouldn't learn from if you didn't have them so it's all part of it like i've had um i've broken my shoulder in mexico on a big wave and i've had some really bad um wipeouts and injuries here at jaws um but like i said they're all learning experiences and if you're not pushing it then you're kind of playing it safe and that's not usually how I like to do things calculated and crazy remember we did

the NASCAR show we talked about the drivers said if you're not in the red zone you're not racing right similar similar approach and attitude yeah surfers though tend to be i mean you guys are i mean first of all there's something wrong with you mentally so clearly nicely no i mean i've i've i like i i you weren't here but i said earlier in the show i did it once and that was enough because being being dragged along the bottom of the ocean and then come up and you're all you have abrasions you feel like somebody tried to waterboard you like nature tried to waterboard you you know it's like nature hates me it just tried to kill me um and then and then you guys just get back on and paddle out again like you okay so you're a little crazy but um at the same time there's a

real zen quality that you guys all seem to have about you is that because you're always facing impending death well not all of my surf sessions are extremely dangerous um that's good to know all after after talking with you guys i'm gonna go get in the water and it's probably only need a waist high so it's really small um but yeah for sure in the big wave world everyone that's riding big waves does have a little bit of a screw loose for sure you have to have that little bit of little bit of craziness, I guess. But, um, I like to say that it's calculated and like, I'm not just like those wipeouts for sure happen, but it's one out of 10, you know, like most of my waves that I choose to paddle for and try to ride, I

usually make. So it's, um, it's all all part of it it's like the love for the ocean is what drives you and being in the water and riding these waves you don't get any other feeling like that and um you're riding moving mountains is basically how i describe wow what a great way to describe it very poetic page yes very poetic we were told that there's a place in Portugal, Nazaire, where the monsters really do rise out of the deep and they can get up to 100 foot high. Have you ever had the desire to think, yeah, I've got to go there and do that?

Nazaire looks like a beautiful place. The wave itself looks very challenging and scary. It's not a picturesque wave. It's more about riding the biggest wave of your life. Um, I'd say 95% of waves that are big waves that are written there are mostly toe surfing. Toe surfing is using a jet ski and there's a toe rope attached to the back of the jet ski. So you have a driver that is in charge of putting you on these waves and picking you up and rescuing you from harm's way. And you're 100% relying on your driver to put you in the position on a wave to ride and surf these waves.

So you want to make, you want to make sure that your relationship with him is definitely in good standing before you go out there. Yeah, for sure. So you're holding onto a tow rope. Um, it's like,

I don't know, 15 to 20 feet long and relax. I've already just put you in the spot and then, um, you let go and you have enough speed and you're in the right position and you just send it a little bit different than paddle surfing where you're on a board. That's probably four or five times the size as far as volume and you're

relying 100% on yourself and all of the lessons that mother nature has taught you in the past to position yourself and be in the right place at the right time and to paddle your heart out to catch this wave so it's a little bit different you're relying on someone else and a machine to tow you into these into these huge waves and that happens a lot at Nazare and uh it's absolutely insane the wave this is a whole another beef um I'm sure at some point I will end up there um but right now I'm really just focusing on paddle surfing and big waves that's kind of where I'm trying to make my mark that's pretty cool all right before we have to let you go thoughts and advice for young surfers and particularly

the young female surfers coming through and wanting to be the new page arms come on you know they're out there yeah for sure i'd say if like if it's something that you truly love doing then pursue it and give it all and work really hard towards your goals and just believe that anything is possible and just put your mind to it and your heart to it and work as hard as you can and you can achieve anything. Very inspirational. I tell you, as a young girl, I might go surfing this weekend. You see? You're going to add another one to the list. Paige, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for your time, and we wish you well on the water for whenever time you go out

there next, which is in about 10 minutes time, by the sounds of it. Do they still say hang loose? Not really. Not really. Kind of. Okay. Do they still do the finger, thumb, pinky wiggle? Yeah.

Shakas. Yeah. Okay. So that's still cool. But hang loose. Don't, you can't. Nah. Yeah.

Dated. I'm a little dated. I guess I would have to like, I have to find somebody named Moon Doggy. Don't worry, Paige. We'll talk to him afterwards okay absolute pleasure you take it easy and it's been a thrill to have another female world champion on playing with science thank you so much oh thanks for your time this has been our big wave surfing special with professional world champion big wave surfer page arms and of course oceanographer from nasa bill patzerts hope you've

enjoyed it there'll be plenty more Playing With Science coming up, I'm sure very, very soon.