StarTalk Radio - #ICYMI - World Series Slugfest, with Neil deGrasse Tyson

Episode Date: November 16, 2017

The 2017 World Series is the greatest slugfest in the Fall Classic’s history. After 8 different batters hit home runs in a record-setting Game 2, Gary O’Reilly and Chuck Nice searched for scientific explanations with Neil Tyson and weather expert William Patzert.Don’t miss an episode of Playing with Science. Subscribe to our channels on:TuneIn: tunein.com/playingwithscienceApple Podcasts: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/playing-with-science/id1198280360GooglePlay Music: https://play.google.com/music/listen?u=0#/ps/Iimke5bwpoh2nb25swchmw6kzjqSoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/startalk_playing-with-scienceStitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/startalk/playing-with-scienceNOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free: https://www.startalkradio.net/all-access/world-series-slugfest-with-neil-degrasse-tyson/ Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to new episodes ad-free and a whole week early.

Yeah, I'm here, but in fact, this is not my show. Shut up. I know, but we like to get you into the mood. No, no, don't like put me all up front in the show. Yeah, yeah, let's do that. I'm here to offer color commentary on whatever you guys talk about. See, and this is how you know who you are in the realm of pop culture and science and life. When it's not even your show and they're like, he's here, it's his show now.

Headliner. Headline is here, it's his show now. You're blinded by the day. Well, that's right. My name is Chuck Nice, and with me... Gary O'Reilly, and this is

Playing With Science. And today, yesterday, we will take a special look at the 2017 World Series, a straight-up slugfest between the Astros and the Dodgers,

and that is Chuck. Yo, it's a series that so far has given us hot hands, home runs, and triple-digit heat, and that, by the way, is just the It's a series that so far has given us hot hands, home runs, and triple digit heat and that, by the way,

is just the temperature. Chuck, those sound effects have no correspondence to anything that happens in baseball. I know. That just makes them so cool. Unless there's a bench clearing brawl,

then that's when my that's when it works. But other than that, absolutely. There is no sound like that in baseball. The balls, the bat, the spitting, nothing. Oh, wait a, absolutely. There is no sound like that. The balls, the bat, the spitting, nothing. Oh, wait a minute.

You just gave me a great idea. What I want to do now is actually dub a baseball game with my sound effects. So a home run would be like, and then people would be like, ow, instead of the roar of the crowd. So here's what we want to know. Was it the 103 Fahrenheit game in game one or the high 90s temperatures in game two that was responsible for all these dingers? Or was it just the baseball itself? You know, after game two, Dallas Kike on Astros Pitcher said, 100% the balls are juiced. Is it fact or fiction?

Yeah. Well, here to give us some answers that we need. Of course, we need some proper home run hitting, some power hitting. And you already heard them. We're talking about Neil deGrasse Tyson. And we also have NASA oceanographer and global weather expert,

our good buddy, Dr. Bill Patcher will be with us. Cool. Yeah. Cool. And then stick around for part three because on today's show, we'll be taking your questions live about physics and baseball and we get those two experts to stand up and give you the answers that you deserve yeah so if you're a big fan of baseball or just a fan of the cosmos

or everybody is a fan of dr neil grass tyson so if any of those things fall within your wheelhouse, go ahead and give us a call. Okay? At 877-974-7487. I knew I was missing something in that statement. I've only been doing radio for 20 years, and I was like, somehow that statement seemed incomplete. Just give us a call. Yeah, smoke signals often.

Exactly. Give us a call. Figure out my signals often. Give us a call. Figure out my phone number. Anything but a brick through the window. There you go. There's only 99 million versions of a phone number. Absolutely. Oh, the thing is that you've actually calculated that.

No, actually, it's bigger than that. It's 10 digits. Right. So that's basically 100 billion numbers. Yeah. Wow. Someone could get lucky. But only if luck exists.

But there's some numbers that don't exist, like 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0. You've got to subtract those out. But it's basically 100 billion numbers. There's plenty of numbers for everybody on Earth. Absolutely. For now. For now. And let's hope for a long while.

Yeah, we hope for it. Let's hope I'm not part of that number when we get to that number. Yeah, we will die long before, we will go extinct long before that number becomes real. Unless, of course, we colonize other planets.

But that's a different show. Oh, that is a different show. And I'm sure that there's some people who will be very interested in that. So speaking, Gary, do you want to get to the weather

as you brought it up earlier? Yeah, I mean... The fact that we had some serious October anomaly, I guess you want to call it. It's not an anomaly because, I mean, game one back in Dodger Stadium

seems so long ago, it was sizzling. A hundred and three degrees Fahrenheit. Now that is due to possibly, maybe not, maybe yes, the Santa Ana winds. They come in, downslope winds come off them, and they are brutal. I don't ever remember it.

They don't have humidity. Right. That's a dry heat. Yeah. Yeah. So that's where we're going to get a little bit of science to come in. And is that why we've got warm weather, hot weather? That's why we're seeing so many home runs in that stadium.

I don't know. I think Dr. Tyson will have something to say about that because I've actually heard you speak about weather and how it affects the flight of baseballs with respect to humidity in particular. I don't want to get into it now, but I don't want to get into it now because I don't want to spoil it. I'm here for you. Ah, thank you. But I, not being the meteorologist or the climatologist, I cannot speak of what on Earth passed wind across the place to make it that hot. Whose winds is it? I don't know.

Santa Ana passed winds or not? Oh, that Anna. She is such a classy girl. Oh, that Anna. She is such a classy girl. But the density of air is a very clear sort of physical thing that we can talk about when you're ready. Awesome. Awesome.

So do we want to get to, as Dallas Keiko said, these balls are juiced? Yes. Do we want to get on that? I believe Anna said that too. Sorry. So, okay. I'm so sorry. Let's get the good doctor to explain to us how it would be possible to juice a baseball in terms of the physics and what would be the ramifications therein.

Okay. Hey, Dr. Patrick. Bill, how are you, my friend? Hey, fellas. Hey, Bill's here. What the hell of a game, man. Hell of a game. Did you enjoy it? We know you're a Dodgers fan, huh? What a hell of a game, man. Hell of a game. Did you enjoy it?

We know you're a Dodgers fan, right? Yeah, I'm a Dodgers fan, but I'm just exhausted, you know? It was like whiplash going back and forth. Yeah, yeah. Well, listen, they got two more chances to pull this thing out. What are you thinking? What are you thinking? I know you're a fan, but are you still encouraged, sir?

Oh, no, no. You've got to be optimistic, you know. I've been with the Dodgers for so long now, I can't give up on them. Were you with them when they were in Brooklyn? You know, when I was a kid, my dad took me to see Jackie Robinson at Old Abbey.

So he's legit. He's legit. And so, you know, that was it. You know, I still remember the Emerald Field walking out through the tunnel. You know, it's one of my earliest memories of baseball. You know, you're sounding like a Ken Burns documentary now. Good stuff. Good stuff. Good stuff, good stuff. So, Doc, Bill, can you talk to us about weather and the effect that it might have on a baseball game, especially when you're looking at 103 degrees, perhaps, in a very dry, dry heat?

Okay, well, very simply, the higher the temperature, the better the ball carries because it's less dense. Approximately for every one degree Fahrenheit increase in temperature, the ball travels anywhere between four and six inches farther. Really? So, for instance, we saw those 100 degree temperatures last week, and, you know and that's one explanation for all the home runs. But, you know, this is unbelievable. There's been 22 home runs so far in this World Series. It just broke a record. So there's got to be a better explanation.

I think it's the ball. Yeah. I'm going to say no. Yeah, I'm going to say no. So, you know, what's funny is when you said that air density and the four to four inches or whatever you said. Six inches. Six inches. That Neil was sitting here and actually wrote down a frickin' four meter. No, I didn't.

But no, Leo, give us a little further breakdown on that. So a couple of things. Of course, the good doctor is correct. When you have warmer air, it's less dense than hotter air. We've always known that. It's because that's why hot air rises

and it's less dense. That's how that works. Hot air is lighter. If it's less dense, that means there's there is lighter so if it's less dense that means there's less air resistance for anything moving through that medium and certainly that would be true for a baseball but in addition um there's another factor which is moist air is less dense than dry air because the moist air has the water molecule swapped in for what would otherwise be a nitrogen or oxygen molecule. And if you add up the weight of a water molecule, everybody who's in the water molecule,

what's the chemical? H2O. H2O. H2O. So you have 200. You have 200. Add that up. Add up their atomic mass.

It is less than either the oxygen molecule or the nitrogen molecule, which makes up the rest of the air. So, the more humid the air, even though it feels like it's thick to you, anything moving through it will know differently. And that's the deal. Because humid air feels thick when you breathe it in and on your skin,

it's counterintuitive to think that it would be less dense. That's why it's not an accident why the greatest of the low-pressure systems, that's where all the rain is and all the humidity is. That's where storms are. Low pressure, not high pressure. And I'm sure, Dr. Patzert, being an oceanographer, you would know that that's exactly the case, right?

Yeah, Neil's got it exactly correct. Moist air weighs less than dry air. The water vapor actually weighs less than the nitrogen and the oxygen. It's so counterintuitive to think that on a humid day that you can knock a baseball farther because the air is less dense when you can actually feel the air as you breathe it in yeah so yeah but uh there are a few other counterintuitive things like heavy cream floats on skim milk just want to be clear you actually came up with that experiment no no i didn't invent it i mean we've always known. Yeah, because cream always rises to the top. And that's why

it's called skim milk. You have skimmed off the cream that went to the top. Right. Alright. So, Doctor, Dr. Bill, Bill, what is the weather forecast for Dodger Stadium as of tomorrow, Tuesday evening? Because your Dodgers need a comeback the size of

an elephant. Well, this morning I got up and it was in the low 60s and drizzling. And so tomorrow night. You are in Los Angeles, right? Yeah, it's going to be almost 40 degrees cooler than it was a week ago. And so that should have a tremendous impact. And so that should really... So that would mean fly balls go, according to your numbers, about 20 feet less far.

Yeah. And so anything that would have just hit the first few rows of the audience, of the fans, would drop short into the... So we may not be looking forward

to another home run slugfest. Well, except many of those home runs were off the top deck. You know, they ain't about humidity there. Right, that's true. Yeah, that would be a home run on any planet. There's definitely a mystery

here. The number of home runs has been outlandish. So, you know, we're definitely going to have to delve into this. There's more than just voluntary. Wait, but let me ask you. Now, I didn't do these numbers, but surely it is possible that it's a normal statistical variation in home runs. So if you look at every season's home runs for the World Series and sort of fix it by number of games, because if you sweep in four games, then it's not as many games and not as many home runs. So you calibrate for that.

So home runs per game, let's say. Okay. And if it fluctuates, some will be lower than average, some will be higher than average. Every now and then you expect one that's higher than all the others just in a normal statistical fluctuation and we know the human mind is not properly wired to understand and properly interpret statistical variations that's true we think something like for example someone's they say oh he's got a hot hand in basketball right he's got a hot hand give it to him's got a hot hand. Give it to him again. Well, you actually run the numbers on that.

It's completely natural that if you score at a certain percent, if you're like a 40% shooter or a 50% shooter, you'll have runs five or six in a row, seven in a row. You'll have that. And so you'll think, oh, he's got a hot hand. Give it to him. A normal statistical variation. So I didn't run the numbers for the home runs. Perhaps you did, sir. Have you done that or not?

You're absolutely right, but there's something on top of this. If we look over the past century, a half century, there's a trend in the statistics. We're hitting more home runs in the last half century. So is it a juiced ball or is it juiced players? I was about to say. I'm looking towards the players more than anything when you look at the size, the speed, the stature of these athletes today

and you look at the athletes 50 years ago. Look how skinny and little they were. Most of them. Exactly. In fact, it was a year when the L.A. Dodgers were in the series, and I think not a one of them was over six feet tall. What year was that? On the other hand, fellas, the pitchers are better, too.

Well, that's true. There's no doubt about that. So we have a number of elements. For the average temperature in Dodger Stadium, it's increased almost six degrees because of global warming and the urban heat island effect. Now, do me a favor. Please explain the urban island effect for me, please. Well, you have 20 million people in Southern California.

All that infrastructure, freeway, shopping centers, you actually see the same thing in all big cities. We actually create and capture our own heat. New York City is a good example. Especially. Especially. You could be driving from New Jersey into New York City, and most cars have an outside temperature on them now. Watch the temperature go up 5 to 10 degrees just by driving across the river into Manhattan. And there's another interesting fact that's mitigating that.

Right now, have you ever heard of Tar Beach, which is rooftops in urban centers? All right. Well, the old days, the tar was just black, and now it's all painted silver. Silver. And so there's less heat retention now. It just gets reflected back to space. So you don't get quite as much of a temperature uptick on it. Plus all the light bulbs are now going to LEDs, so they're putting out less heat.

So that's ameliorating some of that effect. But this six-degree temperature difference, that's a fascinating fact over the years. Over about how many decades is that? That's essentially over a century, Neil. And so we're actually playing baseball in a warmer world. Gotcha. All right. And do you think that that has anything to do with the proliferation of home runs lately?

Or is it, just like Neal said, a statistical variation? Well, you know, there's the physics and, of course, there's the human factor. These baseball players, both pitchers and hitters, are definitely larger. They're stronger. And so the game has definitely got more physical. Let me ask you this then, both you and Neil. You're saying both the hitters and the pitchers are stronger. We're just getting better.

We're getting better. But with that in mind, if I'm throwing the ball faster and harder, does that mean that the guy who's hitting it, whether he's stronger or not, can hit the ball farther? Does it work like that? Okay, that's a good guess, an excellent point. Now, what's more important, the ball speed from the pitcher or the swing speed from the batter? Right.

Which one? Well, I'm going to say bat speed because if you can get around on the ball, you're going to have an easier time of hitting the ball. If you can get around on the ball and make contact, you're going to hit the ball farther. Right. If you can get around on the ball and make contact, you're going to hit the ball farther. Right. So an interesting thing is that even though the players are bigger, many of them are using smaller bats. So they must be studying physics because there's a tradeoff there.

The smaller bat, lighter bat, actually gives you more bat speed, which is more important than pitch speed. And also you get more bat control so that the bat is not swinging you. You're swinging the bat. And also notice almost all the bats now have the top tip hollowed out. Yes. And so that part of the bat they had judged is not relevant to meaningful contact, and it's just dead weight. So they took the weight away. And it's the worst kind of weight.

It's the farthest from your angle point. Ah, okay. Yeah, and so if you take that away, the same force now swings the bat faster. Okay, so if we look at the... That is... I never knew that! Did you wonder why the top of the bat was hollowed out? Did you stop and think about it? No, no. Chuck thought it was a fashion thing.

No, I thought it was the same thing. In a way, I did, because in a bottle of wine, there's something called a knuckler, and underneath the bottle of wine, it's a convex shape. No, I thought it was the same thing. In a way, I did, because in a bottle of wine, there's something called a knuckler, and underneath the bottle of wine, it's a convex shape. No, it's a punt, that's what they call it. What, like a knuckler? See, you never served wine. You just drink it.

But that's when you stick your knuckle to hold it? Exactly. Are you thinking like there's a bat butler that turns up holding a baseball bat? Yes, for the bat boy. It's for the bat boy. The turns up, holding a baseball bat, to place it in the hands of a player. It's for the bat boy, the bat boy, he hands it to you, Grace. Your bat, sir. With his thumb in the dimple, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Y'all, wine bottles actually feels like an armpit, it's actually funny. Absolutely. Okay, let's take it to where we are now. Wait, wait, wait, one quick other thing, I just wanna put on the table. Go for it. All right?

It must be at least approximately true that however much better the pitchers are getting, because I remember if a pitcher threw over 90, that was noteworthy. Exactly. Now everybody's throwing over 90. Exactly. Okay? And so to first approximation, pitchers are getting equally as better. Is that a phrase?

Equally gooder to batters because nobody's batting 400 or 500. Right. If you look at team batting averages, there's still team batting averages down around 250, 260. It's been that forever. So if batters were getting better relative to pitchers, they'd be making more contact more often and getting more hits, and that's not the case. You were showing the numbers.

I'm just saying. I was showing the numbers. Do you agree, Dr. Bill? Well, you know, I still want to know why we set a record here. There's been 22 home runs here in the first five games. That's a new record for a world. And we had eight in game two. We had seven last night.

Yeah. But isn't it true that every baseball game, some record is set? Most runs in the bottom of the fourth with two men on in scoring position. Right. While the fat guy was eating a hot dog.

I want to bring it back to the hitters. You've got Altuve who's only 5'6". You've got people like Bellinger, who are stick-thin. So you're not looking at athletes who are juiced. There's got to be a lot...

There's got to be an awful lot of talent that comes through there, and it's not about having big muscles. Actually, it is. Most power in a swing doesn't come from your arms. It comes from your legs. Okay.

So it's a matter of coordination. And your hips swinging through the strike zone, yeah. That's right. Yeah. So it's generating from the ground upwards. Yeah, so baseball players. He's very solidly built with heavy legs, and he's got terrific bat speed. And I think that's why

many baseball players relative to other sports perhaps not to football but other sports they have chunky thighs and round buttocks I hadn't noticed but now you've placed that thought in my mind

I'm going to be honest I've noticed every game we've got to take a break guys and when we come back Well, I'm going to be honest. I've noticed every game. Hey, listen, we've got to take a break, guys. And when we come back, we'll still be with Dr. Bill Patzert and Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson as we take your calls. The number is 877-974-7487. Thank you for being with us on our World Series edition of Science of Baseball here on Sirius Insight, Channel 121. Welcome back to Playing with Science on Sirius XM Insight, Channel 121.

We're getting to grips with the World Series and the science therein. All right, let me start with a wonderful quote by the Major League Baseball Commissioner. Absolutely confident that the balls that we're using are within our established specifications. Discuss. Are they still stitched in South America? I don't remember where they're stitched. You sound like Trump.

You're going to blame the Mexicans. No, I'm just saying. Damn. Go on, they can't catch a break. Mexico's in North America, by the way. That is true. But all I can imagine is whoever's doing the stitching

says, you know, they haven't hit much home runs lately. Let me put some extra stuff in here. I'm just imagining that conversation wherever the stitching factory is.

This goes up against what Dennis Keuchel said after Game 2 and those eight home runs where he says, obviously the balls are juiced. Well, yes. And if I were Dallas Keuchel, I would say that too, which is a very sarcastic way of saying, F you, I'm an awesome...

Are they saying that the balls are juiced just for this World Series or that they've been juiced all year? That's just it. That is it. I mean, that's the quote that came out of it. Haven't more homes been hit this year

than any other year? I think so. I'm not sure about that. I think so. 6,100 and something. Far and away the most number of home runs hit

in any year of baseball. That's correct. Gotcha. So now, 53 of them was a judge. So let me ask you that.

All right. That's true. That's right. All rise. By the true. All rise. By the way, all seven feet of them. God. Six,

seven. Six, seven. Six, seven. Yeah. And in baseball, that's seven feet. So here's what I want to know,

guys, because I hear this term and I've heard it since I was a kid. How do you juice a ball? How do you juice a ball? When I was a kid, How do you juice a ball? How do you juice a ball? When I was a kid, I took apart a ball, and it's fun to do. You unstitch it, so you remove the leather.

And then under it is, if it's still made the same way it was when I was a kid, I don't see why it would be different. A million miles of string. I try to see how long the string was. It is like 100 yards. It's not a string. It's a rubberized, I don't know what to call it. It's like rubber twine.

Rubber twine. It's like rubber twine. It's like rubber twine. Yeah. And it's just wrapped and wrapped and wrapped. And wait, wait. You keep doing that, and then there's something else in the center. There's like a little spalding in the center.

A piece of gum? Like a Tootsie Pop? Yeah. Like a Tootsie Pop. Like a Tootsie Pop? Yeah. Like a Tootsie Pop. Like a Tootsie Pop. Okay. So, yeah. There's a whole thing in the center

that when I took it apart has liquid in it. So I thought that was interesting. Oh, my God. I did not know that. Now that is really... Now we've got to get somebody on to talk about the anatomy

of a face pop because that... If that's still the case, that's amazing. Okay, maybe we'll get a caller on later on and they'll give us quite literally the insight that we are looking for. Dr. Pill, do you know anything about the anatomy of a baseball and what's inside and how you would use it? The material is made in such a way that when the bat hits it at a certain mile per hour,

there's a compression of the ball. It actually compresses on the contact. And then when it leaves the bat, it actually compresses on the contact, and then when it leaves the bat, it expands again. And so the material is supposed to be in such a way that that compression does not change. And so there are actually physics and balls are tested. But I have a new theory. Ah, I like a new theory. What's different about these balls, these World Series balls,

they're actually stamped with World Series and gold on the ball. Right. And so they're different. And so my theory is it makes it more difficult for the pitcher to control. Gotcha. The ball is perhaps slipperier. Because you've actually, it's kind of like when they take, when they scratch a ball.

Or is that what you're saying? So the embossing, so is it embossed or is it printed on? Because that would have a different effect. Okay, so it is like scratching a piece. No, no, no, wait, wait, wait. If it's embossed, then it's more to grip. But if it's printed on, then it smooths over the texture

that's otherwise on the leather. Right. But it seems to me the fact that the leather is painted white does that anyway. Isn't that right, Bill? Where are you coming at me with this? Yeah, well, of course it is. That's why every time the ball hits the dirt, you know, they're always changing out the balls all the time. Right.

In contrast, when we were kids, you know, we used the ball, the same ball, for weeks. But they don't want to give the pitcher an advantage. The ball gets scuffed or gets dirty. It can actually affect the spin of the baseball. Okay. So how much it curves or drops or lifts. So what you're suggesting is that it's not that the ball is juiced. It's that the ball is less controlled by the pitcher,

thereby giving advantage to batter. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. So that's the approach of why we're getting what would seem an excessive number of home runs. So I would say that if that were true, you would also have more hits and generally more ball contact with the bat.

True. And so that's harder to track. I mean, it's surely out there somewhere, but it's not as obvious as a home run count. But it might be, if that is the case, then that might be feasible that that's the case. You'd expect all bat contact statistics to go up. So apart from the World Series logo on the ball,

what else can we do? Raise the stitches? Can we play with the circumference? Would that change as long as it was within the parameters that were major league? Yeah, I don't know. That doesn't change. The ball weighs about five ounces, and it has been, you know, for decades. And so that really hasn't changed. And they claim that the stitch count has not changed either.

Yeah, but Bill, there's a, of course, since these are measurements, there has to be some really hasn't changed and they claim that the stitch count has not changed either yeah but bill there's a of course since these are measurements there has to be some tolerance of a low end and a high end of what the weight of the ball is and what the diameter of the ball is yeah and we learned we did a golf show recently and if you look up the rules for a golf ball there are parameters within which the golf ball must fall right But the precision of those numbers seem pretty low. It's not exact. It's not exact. Right.

It's not an exact dimension. So maybe the set of balls are at the high end of the size and the low end of the weight. Maybe those would conspire to being easier to hit, and then the same force would hit it faster. How about that? It's just like the JFK thing. I love it. That's why we're here. This is what happens when you get four geeks in a room talking baseball.

I love it. Now, here's another theory. Oh, here we go. Did you notice the way they were calling the balls and the strikes last night? Say that again. I missed it. Did you notice the way they were calling the balls and the strikes last night? In that again. I missed it. Did you notice the way they were calling the balls and the strikes last night?

In what respect? No, I didn't. Go ahead. I thought an awful lot of the called strikes were definitely outside the strike zone. Okay, so here's what Fox should do. That little rectangle they have there, that should be a morphable shape. And as the umpire

starts calling strikes that we all know are balls, you deform that rectangle to be the strike zone for that umpire. Oh my god, that's awesome. And then you publish Wait, wait, and then you publish each umpire's strike shape.

Strike zone shape. And then you'll know where you should swing and where you shouldn't Look at this guy's strike zone It's like the continent of Africa He's all over the place So the thing is for each individual batter That strike zone is going to be different

In principle But I don't think I saw the strike zone change When Altuve All 5'5 Altuve It seemed to me that rectangle was the same size. It does. If they changed it, I didn't notice it. Okay.

But, Bill, did you notice that they changed the size of the rectangle? That's a good, that's an excellent point. It seems like the size should change with the height of the batter. Exactly. But I didn't notice that. No, I didn't either. Right. I mean, so now, the umpire. Well, this is Fox, you know, I didn't either. Right. I mean, so now the umpire.

Well, this is box, you know, guys, you know. Okay, but the guy behind the plate, the umpire, is calling that, and obviously he's going to be looking at it a different way or not. I don't know. It's just. Well, I mean, the strike zone is a strike zone. And, of course, they know if the batters tell each other as they go back and forth to the bench,

whether the inside is, they're calling inside strikes or outside strikes or high strikes or low strikes. So there's shared knowledge of that umpire for that game. Goes back into the beehive. Goes back in. And by the way, this is an obscure reference, forgive me, but in the movie Chicken Little. Okay. Now, let me tell you something right now. That was an understatement.

This is an obscure reference. There's a scene where Chicken Little is in a baseball game. It's really cute because the helmet is really large and it's sort of spinning on his head. And Chicken Little comes up to bat, and Chicken Little is so little that the strike zone has vanished to nothingness so that every pitch that comes is a ball.

And so they just said don't swing just let just let them walk right exactly and then he got hit in the head and spent the rest of the game with a concussion no i'm joking saying that the sky is falling excellent well speaking of balls and strikes and home runs and strike zones uh let us go to a clip of game four. And this is Jock Peterson's homer off of Musgrove. It was a three-run shot that brought the score Dodgers six, Strohs one. And the reason why I wanted to play this is because of the uniqueness of this swing. And so let's hear it, and then i'll ask you guys the question

back at the wall it's gone jock peterson is second in the series so when you hear when you hear him make the call, the first thing, first of all, the crack of the bat sounds not like the normal crack of a bat. It's not the sweet sound of a homer. It's not that sweet sound of a homer. It's like a regular, it's like a clop more than that crack. It's like, you know. The other thing is when you look at his swing,

his swing is almost straight or high, and then the ball looks like it bounces off the top of the barrel. And I think Joe calls it, and he goes, high-five ball, because that's what it looks like. But then it just keeps sailing. So I wanted to talk about and ask you guys about different swings and how they create a home run. Let me tell you what I know, and then I want to pass off to Bill on this,

because if you saw Jackie Robinson play, my boy's got some baseline of references here. So if you take a level swing, then if you're going to hit a home run, then the bat is not coming through the strike zone in the direction the ball leaves the bat. Okay. So you're not transferring as much power of your swing to the ball as you possibly could. Okay. So what happens is people who swing for average tend to have horizontal swings. Got you.

Because then you just punch singles into the outfield. Right. Or through, and you have more control of where it's going to go. If you want to look at the sluggers, and it's why most great sluggers also strike out a lot okay their swing is not horizontal it is almost up at a 45 degree angle right and then when you make that swing and you connect right the bat is following the ball in the direction the ball is going. Gotcha. And the farthest you can ever project anything is at a 45-degree angle. Oh, huh. So at a given speed, if it goes higher than that,

it'll fall short of where it would have landed at 45 degrees. And if it goes lower angle, it'll also fall short. So if you swing up, like swing for the bleachers, as they say, and you make contact, you'll for the bleachers as they say, yeah, and you make contact, you'll hit it farther than at any other time. Now, the case that you described, we only heard the audio on that, did that just

drop in in the first few rows of the stands? No, that just kept sailing. No, no, but it's that, well, how far back did it go? Well, it was a home run, I can't tell you. All I can say is that it would have gone farther if he didn't take a hard-on swing. Game four is in Houston, so it's under the roof. Yeah.

So that may well have another effect. We talked about Santorini's in the yes, no, maybe situation. But so you're saying, Neil, that a 45-degree angle in terms of my swing is the best angle to approach to get the maximum transference of power. But it's harder to hit a moving object if your bat is at a 45-degree angle and the ball is coming in horizontally. Right. If you swing, that's why these guys strike out, right?

You know, Mickey Mantle held a strikeout record for many years until, I forgot who broke his record. But these sluggers are known for striking out, and that's why. So, Bill, what can you add to that? Where's your track? Okay, well, you're right, Neil, but it can happen a couple of ways. You can swing up into the ball like you described. The optimum angle, I think, is somewhere between 32 and 40 degrees in terms of

So why is it a little lower than the pure physics angle of 45? But if you swing straight into the ball, remember the ball can come off the bat, not necessarily perfect, you know, exactly at the same, in the middle of your bat in the sweet spot. It can also lead the bat at an angle. And so you don't have to swing under the ball to hit a home run. in the middle of your bat in a sweet spot, you can also lead the bat at an angle. And so you don't have to swing under the ball to hit a home run. That's why you get these balls where the guy is swinging, like he looks like he's aiming for a single,

and the thing just carries. Well, that's what this home run was. Off the bat at about 32, 34 degrees. But you can watch also the people who hit home runs on a low pitch. They just sort of golf it. They don't even look like they're swinging hard. You ever see these kinds of home runs? Right. It just goes down to get the ball and it just goes.

And it just goes. That's the mark of a real talented athlete when they make it look as if it's easy. Right. It's just the simplest thing in the world to do. Don't start on luck. Don't start on luck. It's hard to make that ball come off your bat at 32 degrees. Well, the luck is, of course, because, as we all know,

you are in the record books in the Hall of Fame by not getting a hit 70% of the time. You're a 300 batter, you're in the hall of fame by not getting a hit 70 of the time you're 300 batter you're in the hall of fame and uh so yeah there's certainly luck in that okay so imagine now as i'm making contact with we'll call it a 90 mile an hour ball coming my way there must be a point where the wood on the back gets dented. There's an indentation. Does that then alter the flight path as it leaves? Well, the thing that's doing the most deforming is the ball. But you would expect some deforming of the bat itself. And in fact, an aluminum bat is more of an elastic collision than a wooden bat is.

So in other words, you can deform the bat and it will come back to shape. But some of that energy is absorbed into the grain and the wood of the wooden bat. That very same swing on an aluminum bat, you will deform the aluminum, and it will pop right back, and it will leave the bat at a higher speed than it would for a wooden bat. So it gets a springboard effect. It's a springboard effect, right, if it's for an aluminum bat. If the majors switch to an aluminum bat, everything will go farther and faster. And there's a concern about the safety of the pitcher.

Because right now, a fast swing right back to the pitcher, they can just get their glove on it. With an aluminum bat, that will not be the case. So you'd have a lot of pitchers leaving on stretchers. Oh, you are so strumming the chord for Chuck right now. You're just making me love baseball even more. That's the game I want to see. So Bill, why is it

32 degrees and not 45? Well, I think they've calculated that's the optimum angle in terms of given the particular distance. I can't agree with that even. No.

I think that's a definite disagreement. All right. Okay. So you sounded really sure about that, and I'm only talking just a pure physics calculation. So the burden of proof is on me. I will go home and try to figure that one out. See what's different. I think 45 is probably right,

but you have to put the friction of the error into the calculation. Right, right. So in a vacuum, 45. And here on Earth with atmosphere 32 degrees is optimal. We'll see.

So we'll see. I'm still skeptical, but I'm going to find out. If that's so, I have to learn why. By the way, before we end, later on when we come back, make sure I tell you about how much baseball players spit onto the field, because I did a calculation on that. No, make sure we don't talk about that. Oh, my God. Okay. All right, we't talk about it. I just want you to know. All right, we'll take a break. I can't even drink water now.

The angle of release will be peer-reviewed during the break. Yes, exactly. This is Playing With Science. We'll be back after this break. This is SiriusXM Insight. Don't forget, you're up next. 877-974-7487. That's the number you dial to talk to the guys.

Welcome back to Playing With Science. That number, once again, 877-974-7487. They are the digits that get you on air with us. So don't be shy. Punch those numbers. So, Neil, you have information about something that upset Chuck prior to... Yeah, I'm so excited to hear about your spit fest. Yes.

You want that now? You know what? I want to get it out of the way. You want it? I want it. It sounds so disgusting. I just want to get... Let's remind everyone who we have on the phone.

Oh, yeah. That's right. Yeah, we are also joined by Dr. Bill Patrick. Dr. Bill, say hello. Hey, hello, guys. Hey. How do you feel about spitting, Dr. Bill? Well, you know, it's part of the game.

So guys went from... You know, a lot of the guys used to chew tobacco. Now it's bubble gum or pumpkin seeds. Right. And it creates saliva, you know, and it releases tension. And, you know, it's bubble gum or pumpkin seeds, and it creates saliva, you know, and it releases tension. And, you know, it's manly. That's it?

Okay, that's great. So I did a calculation, and because as the – you know, between – not between innings, but while, you know, the pitcher is scratching his nuts, the camera looks at various players, the outfielder, the coach, the players. And I noticed that the camera stays on them for about five seconds before it goes to another player. And about a third of the time, a player is spitting in those five seconds. Even in the dugout, which I find disgusting. Even in the dugout. So I said, if a third of the time, a player is spitting every five seconds. Even in the dugout, which I find disgusting. Even in the dugout. So I said, if a third of the time a player is spitting every five seconds,

and there are 25 players on a team, that's 50 players on a field, and they play for three hours, how much spit is on the field? So I ran that calculation. All right. Okay? So I tweeted this like five years ago. I tweeted this, right years ago I tweeted this right players and coaches

of a three hour baseball game spit at least six gallons 24 liters of saliva

onto the field that's um first of all all I can say is that's just nasty that is nasty and um

you need to do better things with that big brain. Like your cancer? Exactly. I'm guessing your flight was delayed. Nah, that's a... That's a lot of Gangerade.

There's one assumption I made that may have to be adjusted. I assume that every spit was the volume of one cubic centimeter of fluid. Why would you? Is that the normal spit? Well, I did. I tried it. I said, well, I tried spitting and I wasn't getting one cubic centimeter. I was getting like half that. OK, so if this is wrong, it is. It's three gallons. It's three gallons, not six. That's not nasty at all.

Oh, that's totally different. Three gallons of salada. Let me tell you something. That's just a day at the dentist. Also, some players will spit the shells of their sunflower seeds. And those are not technically a cubic centimeter of spit. So there's some slop in this calculation. But basically, it's a nasty field

when you're done. Do you know what to be unclean? Just take a look at the essentially dugout. Do you ever see the camera pan to the floor of the dugout? Oh, after a game when they walk out, it is just nasty. Nasty.

Yes, yes, yeah. Okay, let's clean this up. I've actually seen triple X theaters that look better than that. All right, going back, as I am inclined to, this current World Series, Jose Altuve turned up last night and started to sort of put the bat on the ball. At 5'6", is he predisposed, Neil and Bill, please jump in on this, to hit up under, and he's got the power, we know he's got the bat speed, but because

of his size, is he more inclined to hit under and through? I don't know. Bill, what's your reading on this guy? I don't know. It's an interesting, you know, the short guys in baseball go way back,

even back in the 40s and the 50s. They actually had midgets on many major league baseball teams, all right, because they were harder to pitch to. Oh, get out of here. What was his name? And how tall was Pee Wee Reese? Was he really Pee Wee? I can't remember how tall Pee Wee Reese was he really Pee Wee I I can't remember

how tall Pee Wee was he was a great player oh yeah ok well scientifically

he stepped up you know and when when Jackie came into the bigs you know Pee Wee Reese

was there he was an interesting guy he was from the south so he might have been aee Wee Reese was there. He was an interesting guy. He was from the south. So he might have been a short guy, but he was a big man. Right. But scientifically, would it work? So consider this.

If, in fact, you have to shrink the strike zone for a shorter player, that means that the total cross-sectional area of a pitch that you would swing in is smaller. Right. And this means there's less scatter in what you have to be swinging at in order to protect the strike zone. This must mean, I would think, that he has to get better pitches to swing at, at that size. I'm just spitballing here, but I'm just...

If, in fact, he has a smaller strike zone, then the ball just can't go all to hell and high water. I saw what you did there with that spitball. The spit. That was good. You just played a chucks. Funny bone on you, really. So that's my... If I were to invent

a reason why he's doing so well at this, and dovetail that with Bill's memory that they used to use midgets in a baseball game because it's harder to pitch to them. You'll get on base more. By the way, what is Altuve's walk percentage?

How often does he get on? I do not know. I'm out of my comfort zone now. Who was telling us that? You know, he's just an outstanding athlete. The guy has terrific arm speed. Here's an interesting fact for you. You know, it's about 60 feet from the pitcher's mound to the plate. And it takes about four-tenths of a second for the ball to get there,

less than a half a second. Wow. And it goes, you know, anywhere between 90 and 100 miles an hour. And now the interesting thing about it is that, of course, the ball only weighs 5 ounces. And the bat weighs anywhere between 32 and 36 ounces. It's about 3. But the bat speed is only 70 miles an hour, not 90 miles an hour. Okay?

70 miles an hour, not 90 miles an hour. Okay? And so because of the weight of the bat, you need less speed. So arm speed or bat speed is less than the pitcher's speed. But for every one mile per hour that you increase your bat speed, the ball goes eight feet farther. That's kind of interesting, huh? It's 80 miles an hour rather than 70 miles an hour? You'll go another 80 feet.

80 feet, exactly. This is where not only how fast. A guy like Altuve, he's got great bat speed. So it's not only how fast you're swinging your arms, it's the wrist flick right as you come through the strike zone. So there's a snap at the end, yeah. Right. There's an extra little bit you can give to it to rotate that thing around.

That's it. It's interesting. We find this with different sports, that the swimmers, when they swim, they kick, they have that really flexible ankle so they can kick on that. Floppy feet. Yeah, basically. But we did this with the golf show. Remember how all of the strength of the core to be so strong,

the power to get that from the central axis to come through. Amazing. And one other thing, just before we're running short on time, I want to re-give a tweet that I gave a couple of years ago. Go ahead. Actually, earlier even this year, I repeated it. Just the minimum speed necessary to reach home plate from the pitcher.

Oh, I love that, go ahead. So I want to, I reaffirmed my calculation. So 30 miles an hour. If you throw the ball any slower than 30 miles an hour, it will bounce before home plate, no matter the angle. No matter the angle. So you have to throw it at 30 miles an hour at 45 degrees from the 60 feet, six inches away, then it'll reach home plate.

It'll reach the catcher behind home plate. And anything lower than that. So 29.5 miles an hour. Well, I mean, so there's some slot there because certain pitchers have longer arms. Okay, gotcha. So there is a little bit of variation. A little bit. 25 miles an hour is not going to make it.

Not going to make it. Chuck, even you could read the seams on that car. Is that why you never made it to the big? Why? You were over 30? You know, I went into one of those pitching things, and the fastest I was able to throw it was 60 miles an hour, and I said, I'm unworthy.

Nicely done. Oh, my God. Dr. Bill, what a pleasure, sir. Thank you for being on board today. Thanks so much, man. Go Dodgers. All right. All right. And, of course, my God. Dr. Bill, what a pleasure, sir. Thank you for being on board today. Thanks so much, man. Go Dodgers. All right. All right.

And, of course, thank you to Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson. Dude, did your mama know you're playing with science? She's going to find out when you get home. She knows I'm playing with something. All right. That's it from us. This has been Playing with Science on SiriusXM Insight Channel 121. Hope you've enjoyed it. From Chuck and myself, hey, bye-bye. That's it from us. This has been Playing With Science on SiriusXM Insight Channel 121.

Hope you've enjoyed it. From Chuck and myself, hey, bye bye.