StarTalk Radio - Presenting Real Good: Season Five

Episode Date: September 8, 2023

Hey StarTalk fans! This is a special presentation of Real Good, a podcast from US Bank. It's a show all about people helping other people. In their fifth season, you'll hear from incredible people – like Joelle Martinez, who you'll meet in this episode. If you like what you hear, head on over to their feed and subscribe today.  Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to new episodes ad-free and a whole week early.

Hey, StarTalk fans, Chuck Nice here, and today we're going to do something a little bit different for you. Regular listeners might remember this name, but we're back sharing another episode of a podcast called Real Good. Every season, Real Good seeks to tell stories of people putting in the work. It's a podcast that shows us that while the world is an imperfect place, there are people out there trying to make it better. They put out four really great seasons, and they just started their fifth. While the world is an imperfect place, there are people out there trying to make it better. They put out four really great seasons and they just started their fifth. So today we decided to share with you an episode of the Real Good Podcast right here on the Star Talk channel. If you like what you hear, head over to their feed, hit that subscribe button and tell them we sent you. Tell them Chuck sent you. Yeah, do that.

Enjoy. This is Real Good by U.S. Bank, a podcast about helpers. I'm Faith Saley. Welcome back to another season of Real Good. Courage, dedication, and grit are words we hear a lot on this show, but our guest today tosses in the importance of mentorship. President and CEO of the Latino Leadership Institute, Joelle Martinez, has spent her life being inspired by leadership and activism in her family and has dedicated herself to empowering others. The Institute helps Latino entrepreneurs and business owners grow their confidence,

influence, and skills to become leaders in their fields. Joelle sees challenges as opportunities for growth, but this is not something she was born with. It's something she's worked on. She reveals how she pushed past moments of self-doubt to trust that she is the right person at the right place at the right time to step into a position of power. Joelle, I took this off because sometimes it makes noise, but I have a Frida Kahlo watch. I love it. My favorite artist. Yeah, I saw she was on your list of people you'd invite to dinner. Oh, I absolutely would. My daughter's fifth year, when she turned five, it was a Frida Kahlo birthday party.

And all the kids, boys and girls, everybody made floral crowns and everybody got unibrows. It was so fun. Love it. Yes, she is a strong, strong female role model. I love it. Greg, I am so excited that you're joining me to talk with and listen to Joelle Martinez, the president and CEO of the Latino Leadership Institute, an organization that works to prepare Latino leaders for positions of power and influence. And Joelle, thank you for putting your power on hold to talk to us today. We know you're a busy

woman. Welcome, Joelle. So happy to be here. Thank you for having me. You know, one of the reasons I'm particularly eager to have the two of you in conversation is that I think that you both, in your own respective experiences, have gone on this journey in which you had to learn to be leaders, and maybe you even had to feel like you earned being a leader, and then you've had to teach yourselves how to use your positions to empower others. Would you say that's a true story for both of you? Go ahead, Joelle. I'll jump in after you. Yeah. It's interesting. I think from a time I was a little girl, I was surrounded by leaders. I come from an extraordinary family of leaders, really strong women who stepped into

their power in their own careers and really strong males who did the same, but also supported the women that were around them. And so I think I had a head start in seeing leadership firsthand and understanding the importance and the responsibility and the obligation that comes along and the opportunity it brings. So I guess you could say I was kind of born into leadership at a very early age. You know, I love that. And I would agree with that, too. I was going to say, you know, I've always felt in some ways that I've always had those instincts. And, you know, similar to Joelle, I was raised by very, very strong women.

I'm very proud of the fact that there were a lot of women who poured into me. And I think the way I would probably describe it, Faith, is I didn't have to learn how to be a leader, but I did have to learn how to lead in ways that was authentic to me and really lead in ways that just felt like I didn't have to compromise who I was or how I saw things, how my lived experience provided a different perspective, and to make other people accepting of that. I think the challenge for a lot of, whether it's women, people of color in leadership, it's that ability to bring what's oftentimes described as bringing your whole self to work, right? Being able to bring your authentic self in that way. And it's taken, I think, more so organizations and companies, you know, it's taken generations for them to understand.

Like, leadership is defined very broadly. And I think for a lot of us, we've always had that ability. What we've lacked is the opportunity. think for a lot of us, we've always had that ability. What we've lacked is the opportunity. Craig, I love that you use the verb poured, that these women poured their hope and faith and strength into you. That's really beautiful. Yeah. And Joelle, I'm sure you know exactly what I was, you know, like generations of people have sacrificed, you know, in many ways. I've told this story, Joelle, Faith knows it well, but I'm the youngest of five. And I often talk about how my four siblings, my mom was a widowed

mother of five and how all of them poured into me. Like I was the, you know, the hope of so many of them. And I know that's true in Latino communities as well. Like you carry so much of that responsibility of the community and family with you, no matter where you go. You know, it's great. It's really interesting. I call that the blessing and the curse, actually, to be honest, because we do carry the generations. We know that these opportunities that you and I hold and that we create space for so many others to hold, that they weren't a guarantee. And in fact, we're kind of the first generation of leaders who have far more opportunity than those who came before us. And so you think about all that they did, the sacrifices that they

made to put us in this space in the first place. And that's a blessing. And I don't take that for granted one bit. The curse of that is it is quite the burden for those of us that choose to leverage everything we have to open that funnel, to open up the path wider so so many more can follow us. And I don't spend a single day or a single hour doing this work without carrying that history, that legacy, that responsibility, and the opportunity all together. And for a lot of our leaders that are kind of on their own or maybe the first or treading new path, we have to honor that, that they carry a lot, they hold a lot when they're in these spaces and places. I've heard you use that word burden before, Greg. Yeah, that's the double text. It is.

Don't mess it. We were talking about it earlier, Joelle. We were saying part of what you feel is just don't mess it up for all of those coming behind you because they won't get a shot if you're messing up. No, I call that you got to be flawless. You got to execute with almost utter precision. There's so much on the line and you feel that pressure when you are in these spaces. And I did this podcast right after and during COVID. And someone asked me, you know, how did we lead during this time? And, you know, everyone wanted to talk about grit and, you know, how we had to have all this grit. And the thing I remember that's so important to deal with that burden is the grace

we have to give ourselves. And I think when we give ourselves grace and people see us giving ourselves grace, we understand that that's how you kind of address the burden because we're not going to be perfect and we're not going to be flawless. And so we have to give ourselves that grace in the work that we do. Also, having grit is exhausting. Everybody gets tired of being gritty and resilient, and that is when you need to give yourself grace and other people grace. Yeah. and other people grace. Yeah. Joelle, you mentioned your family. I know you're ninth generation Coloradan and that you were raised by people who demonstrated how to lead. Can you tell us more about that? I mean, what was dinner like when you were a kid? I love that you asked this question because I thought that my dinners were 100% normal

and everyone was having dinners. First of all, I have a big, beautiful family and it is an extended family. So when we get together, it is at the time, it was great grandparents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins. You know, when my husband started dating me and I brought him over for dinner, I so should have done a better job preparing what dinner meant. Name tags for starters. But it was excellent. You know, I think to put it into context, my great grandparents

on both sides decided to leave their hometowns of the San Luis Valley here in Colorado and northern New Mexico for Denver for a better opportunity for their families. So economic reasons and prosperity reasons. And when they came to Denver, like so many Latino families that were doing the same thing, they were faced with just discrimination and racism. And they would come into the restaurants that said, no Mexicans allowed. And so part of that journey, part of that experience in moving their families to Denver is that they did lose some of their culture and heritage. They lost the language. My great grandparents from that day, my grandmother said, we will no longer speak Spanish. It is English only. And we have to be perfect at English. So I never learned Spanish growing up.

It wasn't allowed to be spoken in the household. My family was so afraid that if we spoke Spanish, if we had an accent, that we would not be given those opportunities. And their reasons for concern were definitely validated. and their reasons for concern were definitely validated. But yet, despite some of those changes, they always had an eye for business. So I come from a family of entrepreneurs who are like many Latinos opening businesses and solving needs and trying to build wealth through small business. And I also came from a family of social activists. And so my dinners were so unique in that we would get together for Sunday dinners. We're a loud family. We're constantly talking.

We're opinionated. We're the most supportive family. But at the dinner table, we would discuss things like social justice and voting rights and who we were electing, not if we were going to participate, but how we were going to participate in the process. My parents and my grandparents were high school sweethearts. They married their high school sweethearts and stayed married to that. So rooted in all of that is a loyalty to family and a loyalty to community. And so when we would sit around the dinner table and talk about how we needed to help others or how we needed to lead, I thought other families did that too. I thought

that that was just the expectation. So my grandmother would go on to be elected to the Denver City Council, was the first Latina president of the City Council. My mother was a teenage mom, married her high school sweetheart and had me, never had an opportunity to go to college, but started as a teller in a bank and worked her way up to the executive suites. My father started his career in cable as an installer and ended up building a very successful telecom business and even spent time in Japan doing some telecom. And I got to live there as well during that time. So I learned from them what grit and commitment and service actually look like. And I thought that that was what everyone did at the dinner table. So it was a special family. And without them, I would not be who I am and be

able to do what I do today. You clearly were surrounded by role models. I mean, it's in your DNA. But outside of your family circle, were you also surrounded by leaders in your Latino community? I think the importance of social capital cannot be understated. When we started building the Latino Leadership Institute, we knew that a piece of it would have to come through the content and the curriculum and nurturing these leaders and giving them the tools. But I think if we're all being honest with ourselves, that oftentimes it's who we know and how we can leverage those relationships that really get us that step ahead. And I was so fortunate in the life that I

had, and I had a head start. I had folks in my circle, like my family, but also individuals like Mayor, Secretary Federico Pena, and my dear friend and mentor, Mike Stratton, you know, strong Latinos who they opened doors for me. And of course, once I got there, I worked night and day to prove myself. But I would not have been in those spaces and places, especially so early in my career, working on projects, having access to, you know, senior leaders in Washington, D.C., had it not been for those individuals who believed in me, who sponsored me, who opened the doors for me. And of course, once they opened those doors, I kicked them open, held them open, and made sure

that others could follow. But it was critical. And Latinos today, especially Latinas in the workplace, don't have access to mentors and sponsors, particularly those that are also Latino and Latina, which is why the Latino Leadership Institute has really made that a central focus of the work we do, because we know it is absolutely essential for folks to get ahead. Again, I wouldn't be here without my family, and I would not have been there without the Catherine Archuletas and the Federico Peñas of the world who believed in me and who gave me an opportunity to prove myself. I want to hear a little. Sorry, Greg, did you have something you want to say? I thought you were going to ask me about sponsorship because, you know, that's my my.

I get triggered every time I hear this conversation around mentorship and sponsor and just how important sponsorship is and, and why it is essential because everything I've always felt, and I learned this very early in my career when I still believed like corporations were like meritocracy. And I realized that everything about. I love that we have to stop and laugh. Hold on. Everybody laugh.

Eye roll. Laugh. But everything about, like, I realized that everything about my career and my career decisions were happening in rooms that I wasn't in. have that sponsorship that, Joelle, you speak of, because you better have somebody in that room who is there to advocate for you, to be your champion. And that's something that I don't think we teach sort of the younger generation enough when it comes to, you know, how you navigate these spaces and places. You know, the times where I know for sure that I failed in my career are those times when I tried to go it alone. And so this notion of sponsorship, I could not, I was so glad you brought that up, Joelle, because I cannot underscore that enough. Joelle, I want to hear more about your grandmother running for Congress. You worked on her campaign? I did. It was my first job. I can't say enough

about my grandmother. And this is a true story. What's her name? Especially Ramona Martinez. And when my grandmother got involved in politics, she did like so many other Latinos who do. And that was she was advocating for her kids' school and education. So she got really involved with the local school. And at the time, Denver was going through busing and, you know, it was a different time. And my grandmother wanted to make sure she advocated for her kids and that got her involved in politics. And then during the Carter administration, they started doing a lot of voter registration efforts in the Latino community. And what's really important about their track into politics and public service was that, like I said, my grandmother was 15 when she had my dad

and my grandfather was 17. And my grandfather went for his first job and he wanted to work at a paper and he applied as Lorenzo Martinez and wasn't even given an interview over and over again. And then he applied as Larry Martin and they took the interview. He got the job and he decided to not take that job. But instead, he signed up at the time it was GCIU was the union. And he said he was going to go and work and make sure that everyone had access to employment opportunities and that we eradicated discrimination. And he ended up retiring as the international vice president of his union. So together, the two of them spent their whole lives and careers, and it was rooted in their own discrimination that they faced. It was rooted in wanting to make sure their families had the same opportunities that other families did. And one thing just led to the other. They went from volunteering in voter registration to my grandmother working as an aide in the local city councilman's office at the time,

Councilman Sandoz. When he retired, my grandmother stepped up and said, I'm going to run. And I remember those days of packing pamphlets and walking door to door and saying vote for my grandmother. Oh, God. I mean, I was under 10. So, you know, I'm knocking on doors and out there saying vote for my grandmother. And I got to go right alongside of her. She was elected, became the first, like I said, Latina president of city council. And what was really important is on the last day, she served 16 years in city council. And on the last day, this is the root of my job. And it was like my directive from my grandmother. She said on the last day of city council that it was very important for her to be the first Latina elected to president of city council. It was very important for her to

knock down these doors and these barriers and really show other Latinas what they could do and the power that they could hold, but that it was more important to make sure she wasn't the last. And that her real duty in that role was to hold this space. So something that was a real proud moment for her is that the next president of city council is a Latina. And actually today's Denver city council is going to potentially be represented by seven Latinas. And right now, the president of city council is a Latina, Jamie Torres. So that notion of just constantly serving, willing to take a leap and do something that maybe everyone told you couldn't do. And that's what Congress was about. People told her she couldn't raise the money. People told her that, you know, she she couldn't win. But she really believed that if she didn't try, then it would prevent others from trying and that that we have to put ourselves out there from time to time, even if we lose. Congress was just another way of her really showing us that it takes courage and grit and

dedication to do this and you might lose, but you gain a lot. And she did. She lost. It was a tough loss, but she put Latinos front and center in that election. Is this the grandmother with whom you opened a firm as a political consultant after? Yes. This sounds like a sitcom. That's just fantastic. It is awesome. You could probably get her and I on here. We have many stories.

We were in many back rooms and shared many stories. I'd love to meet Ramona. You know, I got to tell you is that I know that the secret to success and leadership is seeing what it looks like and believing that you could be that too. And just absolute role models in my life that showed me that. And, you know, challenge me. I mean, they do not take it easy. There's pretty high expectations there. Those are some pretty big shoes to fill. But it's been just a blessing to have her in my life. Yeah. We open firms. We

agree. We argue. She's retired now. That's the sitcom part, Greg. I didn't mean to diminish this. It just sounds so joyful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's retired now, but feisty as ever. I was going more for like the drama adventure thing okay we could it can be it could be a dramedy we can write this together yeah yeah yeah good you know joelle when when you describe your grandparents living in communities where restaurants said no mexicans allowed that kind of discrimination is so explicit. And I wonder as a kid who it sounds like was grew up feeling very empowered. Um, sounds like you did not have any kind of accent because you're, you, you didn't learn to speak Spanish and it sounded like it was

important to your grandparents that you, you know, didn you didn't have any kind of accent. Did you experience explicit racism as a young person, or would you describe it as more kind of implicit and hard to identify? I think most of it was implicit. I mean, obviously there were laws on the books and the world changed from the time that my grandparents moved from the San Luis Valley to Denver, I think it was implicit. I think it was also self-imposed in a way. And what I mean by that is you began to buy into some of the narrative, unfortunately. So my family worked really hard and I lived in a nice house and I got to go to private schools. hard. And I lived in a nice house and I got to go to private schools. And I always felt like I lived between two worlds, a world of opportunity and entitlement and affluence. And I never really felt like I fit in there. I was a unique unicorn in that I had two parents that worked. My

grandmother did the bingo so I could go to those schools. Maybe I didn't have the nicest of everything that everyone else did, but I sure was able. I have to interrupt. Do you mean your grandmother literally played bingo? No, they worked the bingo. So you had to sell pickles and work. My great grandmother worked the bingo so we could afford to go to those schools. Okay. Sorry. Obviously, I come from pure ignorance. So she worked the bingo. That was part of her job to make money while other people played bingo so that she could help pay for your private school tuition. Yes, that's correct. And so I thought there was just big winnings at bingo. I was going to say. I wish. That probably would have been easier for her. No, they worked bingo i was gonna say that probably would have been that probably would have been easier for her uh no they worked bingo so you know it growing up you know i really lived between

two worlds i heard you i heard you describe this this moment seeing that movie selena about the the famous tahano singer who was slain and you talk about feeling too much and never enough. Is that right? That is 100% the essence of feeling this implicit bias and racism that you're around, because you feel like you have to be a certain way in whatever space you are operating in. So in my schools, I never felt like I was white enough, rich enough, smart enough, good enough, talented enough. And then when I'd go out into my community, you almost felt like I wasn't Latino enough because here I was going to these different schools and having different access and different friends. I studied ballet and not traditional Mexican dance. And when I watched

that movie, Selena, and they're in that van and they're talking about it and her dad begins to explain the experience of living between these two worlds and never being enough and constantly having to fit in and change yourself so that you're comfortable in making other people comfortable. fit in and change yourself so that you're comfortable in making other people comfortable. It was like cue the dramatic life-changing altering music because in that moment, I saw myself reflected my experiences of never quite fitting in, never quite feeling good enough about who I am, constantly feeling judged for not being enough. And whether I was being judged or not, I don't know, but it was definitely in my head. And I was judging myself of not being enough in those spaces. And the messages that we get based on the media, the news stories, the lack of representation and

leadership, it's a lonely place when you get to be a leader, especially when people don't look like you and come from your background. And so those things get perpetuated and they get planted, cultivated, and nurtured in your head, and they're really hard to get rid of. It takes a lot of effort to remove some of those narratives. That was church and what I mean by that. And there was so much in what Joelle talked Joelle talked about there and, and mostly what I would really resonate it with me was this notion of acceptance and how you're always sort of fighting for acceptance on, on either side, right? You're fighting for acceptance with let's call it mainstream culture. Um,

you know, to be smart enough, rich enough, say the right thing, wear the right clothes to all that. Um, but then, you know, it's tough because you come back into your own community and they're like, you think you better than us and you think you cute and you think you, you know, it's all of those things and you're always sort of straddling. But, you know, Joelle, what you said that I really, really, really made note of, because I believe this is fundamentally true, it's hard to get others to see you until you actually see yourself. And it's that moment where you actually see yourself very, very clearly that you find the acceptance that you're always striving for because you're not compromising

anything. And I, my question for you was, was there a moment where, you know, you actually saw yourself really clearly was whether it was a movie or Selena or whatever it was, was there a moment where, you know, you actually saw yourself really clearly whether it was a movie or Selena or whatever it was, but was, was there a moment where you felt like, wow, like I actually see my path and I see who I am and what I want to be? Yeah. You can cue the dramatic music once again. We'll do that in post. I love it. You know, I got to give my my grandfather the complete. I mean, it was it was he helped me see the way, to be honest. So and it actually has to do with the LLI. So I had had a successful career alongside of my grandmother and and others in this space of politics. And I had great opportunities and had really created a niche for

myself. When the founders of the Latino Leadership Institute called me in for a lunch, and these are an intimidating group of people, folks like Federico Pena and Tim Marquez and Marco Abarca and Cindy Pena and others. They shared their vision and then they tell me that they would like me to consider to come on and build this thing with them. And what do I know about building the Latino Leadership Institute and the imposter syndrome and the self-doubt kicks in. And I walked across the street from the restaurant with those founders. I rode up the elevator to 28 floors to go see my grandparents because they happened to live across the street.

And I had 28 reasons by the time I entered their condo as to why I was going to tell the founders, absolutely not, and run as far away from this as possible. But I sat down with my grandfather that day and I told him all about the Latino Leadership Institute and what, you know, these amazing founders had in mind that we were going to identify, prepare, and elevate Latino leaders to these, you know, positions of power and influence. And, you know, I don't know why, Pops, but they want me to do this. And my grandfather said, without any hesitancy, well, you know, you're going to do this, right? You know, you don't have a choice. And I said, well, of course, Pops, I have a choice. And he said, no, you don't. I said, well, Pops, I'm not qualified. I'm not ready. I can't do this. I don't know anything about it.

And he told me something that changed. The light bulb went on. It changed everything. He said, it would never be enough to convince other people we belong at the table if we're not convinced that we belong there ourselves. You're more than ready. You belong at the table. If we're not convinced that we belong there ourselves, you're more than ready. You belong at the table. This is your moment to lead. And, you know, it was a moment where he saw something in me that I didn't see in myself yet. I sat with that for a while.

And that was such a remarkable conversation. He passed away a couple weeks later. That was one of the last coherent conversations I had with him. He was passing of cancer. And he said something else that was really important. He said when he was in his final days, everyone wanted to come in and tell him all the amazing things he did in his life. But the thing that kept going through his head were all the things he was too afraid

to do. And oftentimes we count ourselves out. We don't need other people to do it because we do it ourselves. And he really did not want me to make that same mistake. And for me, Greg, I saw myself for the first time through his eyes in that moment and his conversation opened up. And from that moment on, I've had my moments of self-doubt. I've had my moments of what am I doing or I'm not good enough. But I never go to the place I was before where I thought that somehow I needed to be perfect, flawless, that I had to know all the answers.

I know my effort and my curiosity and my willingness to work really hard are enough. And he taught me that. That's wonderful. Greg, have you, have you ever felt like you had imposter syndrome? That's something I don't know about you. Oh my gosh. I mean, you know, that's a whole, that's a whole nother podcast, Faith. Yeah. I mean, I, you know, we've all dealt with that a little bit and, you know, it, it, it took took me a long time and I think I've told this story in in previous conversations but it was actually a moment um it was a staff meeting where I uh where I stopped trying to sound like um everybody else you know in those staff meetings where they go around the room and they ask everybody to give a little update on what you're

working on or whatever and I would always have this you know night before dread of like what i was going to say make sure you sound smart make sure your your subject in verbs are aligned like all that kind of stuff and and one time i came and i talked about this movie i took my kids to see and and i gave it context by saying what was what was cool about it was this other company, one of our competitors, actually was the producer of the film. And the reason that's important for us is they ask the question, what business are you in? And so I ask us to think about what business are we in? And I could just tell, you know, our most senior executive in the room looked at me in a way that he had never looked at me before. And I can tell in that moment was the first time he really saw me. And it was because I saw myself first. And I said, I'm just going to show

up as me and let the chips fall where they may. And that's what's going to carry me forward for wherever I try to go from that point on. And I think, so I think we all deal with it a little bit, Faith, but it's finding that courage and making sure we surround ourselves with people that bring out that courage. And as Joelle said, who actually allow us to see ourselves through other people's eyes and those people we trust and believe in. And that's been incredibly helpful for me throughout my journey as well. Joelle, you have a lot of grandfathers in play in your stories. Is that the grandfather who was a custodial worker? No, that's my mom's dad. And he is another extraordinary.

You talk about my pop. That was my pops. That was my dad's dad. My mom's dad, he served in the Korean War and came back and ended up being a leader in the VFW. So I grew up in the VFW. I knew to sign the book when we were traveling. His service and commitment, both he and my grandmother, Jane, who passed during COVID, but they taught me a different type of service. They taught me about service to country. It was excellent. And he was the proudest, proudest janitor. He actually worked in the school where he went to high school, met my grandmother, married his high school sweetheart. He was a proud, proud, hardworking man. And I learned a lot from him about hard work and commitment and humility.

Faith, I would love to actually jump in here because I wanted to go back to this notion of imposter syndrome for a second, because it's part of the reason what I really love about the Latino Leadership Institute and the work that they're doing is because they're grooming and developing just incredible leaders who happen to be Latino. We've got a program. We have a series of efforts here at the bank, which is why the work of diversity, equity, and inclusion is actually sometimes very complicated. Because sometimes, you know, the fear is that you almost do more harm than good

to those you are actually trying to help. Because you don't ever want those leaders to feel that stigma of, you know, I got this position because I'm Latino or I'm Black or I'm Asian or whatever it is. You know, we've got customized leadership development programs that just happen to be, you know, encouraging for women in diverse communities. But these are just great leaders in our organization who go through these programs. We've got leadership programs for all of our employees, but they're customized because we have the experience that many of these executives have are different. And so I wanted to just sort of double click on this notion of imposter syndrome faith, because

it's important in doing the work of diversity, equity, and inclusion that we make sure that we don't position these leaders as diverse leaders. They're just leaders who've got a very unique lived experience, both in their personal life and in their professional journey. And so that's where a lot of the imposter syndrome comes from is because we tend to put labels on people as opposed to first names and all of these other experiences that they bring with them. Yeah. When you put it that way, and I hear both of you talking about being seen through someone else's eyes, right? Being illuminated, really, having a spotlight put on you by someone else. It's that those folks whom you're helping in the name of diversity,

equity, and inclusion, it's not because they are, say, people of color. It's because you look at them and you say, there's a leader inside you, and maybe no one has told you that before, or maybe no one's helped you, but it's not because you are Black or Latino. Correct. It's because we want you to see yourself the way we see you. And people devalue what they don't understand, right? Which is why so many people who come from these communities don't get the opportunities. People don't see leader in them because they don't understand it, so they devalue their experience. I'm sorry, Joelle, because it is a yes and. I think we can put leadership programs together that are culturally relevant and nurture the leader based on their lived experience, which is entirely important. You have to honor their experience. And we have to recognize that

the organizations themselves perpetuate a lot of the imposter syndrome and the feelings, perpetuate a lot of the imposter syndrome and the feelings, one, because of what Greg's saying, how you label, how you treat, how you even classify these opportunities. But it's even deeper than that. And I remember so early on in my career, I had people, mentors, who told me not to wear red lipstick if I wanted to be taken seriously, not to wear bold patterns or colors to straighten my hair. And I did that for 10 to 15 years of my career. If you look at those old photos of me, I was wearing my pearls. I was wearing ugly brown suits. And I definitely did not wear red lipstick because part of what you are told is that you have to change who you are to fit in. And 78% of Latinos in the workplace today report that they have to repress part of

their identity to get ahead. More startling is that the facts actually bear out that they are rewarded when they assimilate, when they shed part of their individual identity, such as the way they dress, the way they talk, their accents. And so a lot of the work that we do at the Latino Leadership Institute with our partners like U.S. Bank is not just that culturally relevant leadership development for the individual talent, but also these conversations that we need to open up at the organizational level about some of these things that are still ingrained in the culture, despite our best efforts to get rid of them, despite our best efforts to acknowledge things

like microaggressions in the workplace. The reality is that we are still time and time again, given messages that we actually aren't good enough as we are, and that we do have to continue to change or assimilate to get ahead. And so it's a yes. And we have to address these issues at the individual and organizational level. They hire for diversity, but reward assimilation. It was unfortunate. Yes. And is my love language. I love that you keep saying that before, before we leave this incredible moment in your life with your grandfather behind. I want, I want to ask you both. What's the last thing that you've done that you were afraid to do? that you've done that you were afraid to do? So we, this is, it's almost painful because it comes back to that. So it was a few years ago, I got a call from Coca-Cola and they were telling me that they wanted me to join their Hispanic advisory board. And you can ask an employee, a staff member, a team member of mine,

I actually called them after I got the call. I was on my way to Costco and I called them and I said, I was just pumped. Someone just called and pretended that they were an executive at Coca-Cola and they asked me to join their Hispanic Advisory board. And I wasn't punked. It was a real thing. But it was exactly five years to the date after my grandfather passed. And I was on my way to San Diego for my first Hispanic Coca-Cola advisory board meeting. And I was stuck on the airplane. We were not cleared to take off.

And I had this binder sitting in front of me that was prepared for me for that meeting. And I reviewed every single tab probably 100 times. I was going to have the 2,000 products memorized. I was going to understand the financials. I was going to understand the marketing documents that they wanted us to discuss in that meeting. I was going to be the most informed because they? Because I had to be, they've given me a shot, except there was one tab I did not dare to look at. And I was on the airplane and I thought it was time for me to do so. And it was the tab of all the bios of all the other board members. And I had refused to allow myself to look at those other bios for fear that I would not stack up. And I remember sitting on the plane

crying. It was five years to the day that I lost him. And I just remember whispering out loud, the person next to me probably thought I was having a breakdown on the plane, but I told Pops I was still a work in progress because despite my best efforts, despite everything I did, despite the fact that I train other Latino leaders not to have those kind of moments, I was still afraid of not being good enough in that moment. And I got over it. I looked at it. I killed it at that board meeting. I met some great friends. I felt comfortable when I was there. So that just little sliver of self-doubt, sometimes we just have to check it. And that fear of not being good enough creeps up even if you've really worked hard to prevent

that from happening. Yeah, I love that. And I think mine is somewhat similar, Faith, I would say. It would have been almost, well, it would have been in July of 2020 when our CEO called me and asked if I would join the managing committee at the bank and report to him. And I just remember so many things running through my head, but I ultimately, you know, because if Faith, you know me well enough to know Joel, we're just getting to know each other, but I'm definitely more art than science. And joining the, you know, the senior leadership team at a bank and

i come to it you know as a storyteller as somebody um who relies very heavily on creativity and ideas and just how would i fit in that room you know when people are talking about financial ratios and all these other things like what does that look like And so I was, there was a bit of fear of, and, you know, the sense of what are people going to think? Did I just get it because I'm a black executive and it's part of the DEI thing and all of that. But then there was this, this, this piece of, and I don't know if you sense this as well, Joelle, but I've always said that, you know, and it's a Maya Angelou saying, I come as one, but I stand as one, but I actually show up as 10,000. And I just remember thinking about all the people who are standing behind me, ancestrally, current, everything, and how important it was for me to be the first Black executive on the managing committee at this bank.

But as Joelle said earlier, the responsibility and the understanding that I can't be the last and or the only one, hopefully. And so that helped me push through and also gave me the confidence to just show up as me and not feel like I had to change anything, that I had to become some financial wizard in some way, but that the things that actually got me there were the things that were going to actually propel me and ensure that I was successful in having that seat. Chach. Chach. You didn't have to wear your pearls to make that happen. Yes, that part.

Yes, that part. So you both learned these lessons or stepped into your roles fully. You assumed your own identities, right? You come to leadership positions self-possessed. How do you help others learn those lessons? How do you begin to apply those lessons so that you can raise up members of your community? I love this question. I feel like it sets up LLI really well to talk about it. So the very thing that keeps me up at night, but also gets me going in the morning is the

fact that the Latino community, you know, by 2050, we're going to be one in three in the workforce. And that's going to be a huge shift in the workforce. But if you look at the trajectory of our leadership opportunities, we have remained nearly flat since 1990. So we were 8% of the workforce in 1990, and about 3% of executive leadership at that time. Fast forward to today, we've doubled our workforce participation. We're near 20% right now. And our leadership has grown by a mere 1% to 4%. So we have a 450% leadership and opportunity gap today. And this is our inflection point. If we do nothing extraordinarily different today,

then in 2050, when we're a third of the workforce, we're going to have a 600% opportunity gap. And to me, that's unacceptable from a socioeconomic standpoint, from a workforce standpoint. So the LLI was founded to address that very issue on everything that we talked about, that I believe without a shadow of a doubt that our talent is there within our community. But the work that we do around our leadership development program, which is culturally relevant, neuroscience-based, we have to change mindsets. We have to help these individuals realize that their heritage, their culture, their authenticity is an asset in the workplace.

You've got to be Pops, Joelle. We've got to be. And number two, we've got to work alongside our partners like U.S. Bank to help prepare that pathway so that they can succeed. And in working hand in hand in those two ways, I believe we can close the opportunity gap. And I will also add the social capital component that beyond sponsorship, the thing that's worked so well for the LLI over the years is just connecting these cross-sector Latino professionals with one another, opens up opportunities. You can see yourself better through your peers. And confidence is built, connections are made. And I believe that culture, content, and connections are going to lead to career advancement ultimately. That's part of sponsorship, right?

It's part of sponsorship. And there's another couple of things that I would add to what you all said. I think those of us that have the seats have to continue to have two really important things. One is we have to have bravery, and two, we have to continue to have stamina because it's really easy to sort of dial things back. And when the issues of social impact and equity and representation aren't, aren't at the headlines anymore. It's easy to get comfortable. And so we've got to have some stamina. We've got to have commitment for the longterm and those that have the seats today have to actually demonstrate real commitment and, and some real courage around it.

The other thing I think is important is we also in communities of color have to have some solidarity and allyship with each other. You know, it is it just breaks my heart when I see communities of color who are at odds with each other and don't recognize the power that comes from that type of solidarity and allyship, particularly when we're faced with so many similar issues. And then what we've talked about from the very beginning of this conversation is just telling a story. I think these young people just need to hear a story, the story of pops and all the other pops and grandmoms

who came before us and know that they come from kings and queens and telecom executives and you know city council presidents and like that's part of our heritage that's part of our legacy that's part of what's inside of us but what tends to happen is we tend to rely on images and stories of ourselves that sometimes lift up um not the best of our communities and that's where our kids want to role model and that's what they want to, in society, tends to put those folks on a pedestal because that's what they want us to think about our community. And that's what they want us to think success looks like. But I think as communities, we have to define what success looks like for ourselves and do a better job of

doing the storytelling that Joelle has certainly gifted us today with. Greg, I just, I want to amplify what you said. You know, after the horrific incidents and tragedies of George Floyd, I actually convened a lot of folks in the community to have real and honest conversations about the importance of working together as communities. And I have always felt like if we continue to perpetuate the game of playing for not last, instead of really working together to achieve success together, to close the wealth gaps, the opportunity gaps that persist in all of our communities, that we continue to play the game of not last. And we treat DE&I like a piece of pie, like a pie. And somehow we only have so much pie and we've got to cut up these pieces and we're trying to allocate these pieces. And that is just perpetuating the bias, the racism,

perpetuating the bias, the racism, the systemic barriers that have existed, and some want to keep existing so we don't get ahead. I believe that our ability to succeed as a community will come by way of collaboration and working with allies in other communities of colors, but even with the white communities that remain you know, remain in power, we have to do this as a collective body if we're going to overcome, you know, decades of systemic racism and barriers that are real and exist today. But we shouldn't be perpetuating some of those systems either. Amen. Amen. This is, I hear three S's from you two. Sponsorship, solidarity, and stories. I like those three. I love those three.

I love it. Let's talk about LEAP, which is a fantastic acronym for the Latina Entrepreneur Access Program. So that's a specific program. When we say, how are you helping bring Latinos into the fold to become leaders and to feel empowered? That's a specific program. And U.S. Bank has made a financial commitment to this program. Is that right? That's correct. Entrepreneur Access Program was something that we formed last year only because we had actually put entrepreneurship as part of our leadership development program. Latinos open small

businesses at a greater percentage than any other population. However, most of them stay as sole proprietorships. And that's a problem for us because small business ownership is one of the three ways that we can generate wealth in communities and close the wealth gap, which is actually growing, not closing for Latinos. It's home ownership, small business ownership, and inheritance and investments and such. And we don't get to the third if you haven't figured out one and two. So for us, entrepreneurship, the entrepreneur spirit is so embedded in the Latino community.

And we just really felt like there was a void, that there were many programs and opportunities for Latinos to learn how to start a business, how to file your paperwork, how to become a certified minority-owned business. But where we lacked resources and attention was at the growth stage. but where we lacked resources and attention was at the growth stage. How do you take a business that's been around for a couple of years, has annual revenue, has a product market fit, and actually grow them past sole proprietorship? How do we double their revenue? How do we double their employee base? Because that's going to ultimately lead to wealth. And we did our research because if something's good out there, we don't need to create it. And we came to the conclusion that we had to build this growth stage program.

And we did so based on the Latino entrepreneur's journey. So this is not going to be like a regular accelerator program. We're going to offer opportunities that will actually close the barriers for these business owners. And what we came to through our research was that one of the barriers that exists today for Latina-owned businesses is actually having subject matter expertise and the governance of a real board of directors. And I can speak to this. We've had many family-owned businesses, and around the board is just our dinner table. It's family members.

And often, we open up and make the investments into these businesses. We don't have outside institutions that are investing in us. And so we can operate in a silo, not have the infrastructure in place. And then when we go to apply for institutional loans at US Bank, we won't be ready for them because we don't have all of these things in place. So what Leap did is we took kind of the horizontal of different subjects that all small business owners need to have. And we partnered with Vistage to give top of the line information. But then what we did for each one of our businesses is actually hire a vet interview and a paid advisory board for that. And these advisory board members are there as

other founders of color, as CFOs, as CMOs, that will actually provide the expertise, but also the infrastructure and the governance for these businesses so that we can prepare them for capital investment ultimately. And that's a barrier that if you didn't understand how Latino businesses are formed and operated, you wouldn't even know that that was a barrier that if you didn't understand how Latino businesses are formed and operated, you wouldn't even know that that was a true barrier to success, which is why we think LEAP is so critically important. Just to have a sense. Thank you. No, it really is. I will tell the team. No, it really is. Faith, I know you have a question, but I just, I have to react to that because I just think it's so brilliant. And so often we talk about what entrepreneurs need, and absolutely access to capital is critical.

But there are so many other aspects of running a business that we don't think about. It's access to networks. It's access to customers. It's access to subject matter experts. It's not just the capital, and we put so much focus on that. I'm just so impressed and pleased to offer to the team. I just think it's incredibly brilliant. brought it up because if we can help these small businesses just hire one more person, you know, create one more job in these communities, the economic impact in these communities is enormous. And, you know, so much of what we're focused on with our Access Business Initiative is about how do you help these businesses grow and scale and create jobs, even one more job, because it makes a huge difference in these communities and obviously with the individual businesses themselves.

Yeah. And 97% of Latino-owned businesses stay in that sole proprietor. So we have a lot of opportunity. We have a lot of runway here to really grow these businesses. And there just aren't a lot of programs out there and efforts, I think, that hone in on why these businesses don't grow past sole proprietorship. And access to capital is absolutely a legitimate barrier, but it's greater than that. And that's why we partner with U.S. Bank, because we have to collaborate. This is a big effort, a big undertaking, and our partners have been really important for us to begin to

chip away at some of these barriers that exist for these small entrepreneurs. And just as a side note, part of our leadership development program, we had a local Latino in our second cohort of fellowship who they had to do a pitch, an entrepreneurship pitch as part of their leadership development program. Teaching the entrepreneurial mindset has value across all sectors and industries. And he pitched a Latino brewery that was rooted in culture and experience and would be a community hub. Well, he would go on to raise some of his initial funds from the network. I paired him with a mentor and a sponsor that helped navigate those first steps of business. And the community really rallied to build this business. But he did it with all of these tools and resources that the LLI could help provide. Today, his business, Raices, stands as one of the most successful

Latino-owned breweries in the country. He's looking into expansion as we speak. And despite the fact he opened during COVID has been very successful. And I think that it is knowing that people have great ideas, that there's a product market fit, that they're willing to put in the work, actually make us the safest investment of any owned business out there. And we really hope that the work that we're doing alongside our partners will change the way people see Latino owned businesses because we're not a risk. We are actually a very safe bet. And Reyes, this is one of those proud stories I love to share. And what I also love about this is by helping these businesses build the infrastructure, you also are allowing companies

like U.S. Bank to actually do meaningful business with these businesses. Because that's the other part that's really important. It's like you don't need the, these businesses don't need the diversity contract. They need a real, they need a real meaningful business relationship with these organizations. So the infrastructure and the stability and all the things that LLI is doing to help these businesses actually helps us think about how to do meaningful business with some of these suppliers as well. Absolutely. Just to give a statistic that really expresses the urgency of this, I think this is from the LLI website. I found there are only 330,000 Latino-owned businesses with employees in the U.S. That's it.

And only 3% of Latinos are accepted into traditional accelerator programs. And LEAP is an accelerator program, right? That's what it is. Yes. Yeah. A growth stage program. We don't work with early startups. right? That's what it is. Yes. Yeah. A growth stage program. We don't work with early startups.

We have some caveats to that with tech or tech-enabled because they're on a unique journey. But yes, we are a growth stage accelerator program. And that 300,000 is a real number. And it is something that we have to aggressively fix. Again, I say this all the time that I believe full-heartedly in DE&I for many reasons, but one of them is the socioeconomic reasons behind it. If we do not close these opportunity gaps, getting Latino-owned businesses to grow their businesses, if we do not get Latinos into executive leadership positions that are higher paying with greater benefits, it has a ripple effect on the entire economy. And we're at an inflection point right now, which is why I think the work of the LLI and in partnership with companies like US Bank is so critically important because there's

going to be a turning point where more and more is going to rely on the growing Latino population. And if we haven't closed some of these gaps, the entire economy pays the price for that. And so this is a social good, social justice effort, but it is also an economic effort that's critically important for all of us to consider. My friend, Greg Cunningham, always says this. Greg, where have you been all my life? says this. He is great. Greg, where have you been all my life? I have to say, we must be related somewhere, Joelle, because you just took the words out of my mouth. The way we talk about it here at the bank, it's all about the business case for diversity today. It's about innovation and it's

about inclusive growth. And it's all enabled by the talent strategy. But where the industry has gone wrong for so long is they've always started with the talent component of it. We have to have more women and people of color in leadership. And that is 100%, 1,000% absolutely true. But the reason it's true is because you actually have to set the business strategy first. What are we trying to do as a business? What are the marketplaces? And the market is

diverse. And the general market now is brown. And that is who our customer is in these marketplaces, which is why we have to have better representation. And so inclusive growth, innovation, everything you're saying, that is the business case for DEI in today's environment. Yeah. And it's one of the first questions when new partners come and they tell me about all their goals and want to know how LLI can help. One of the first questions I ask is, do your financial investments align with your ambitious DE&I goals? Because so often, they want these things to happen, but they're not paying for the leadership development programs. They're not making the investments and the tools and resources that actually solve to some of those pain points.

And we've got to align. I mean, U.S. Bank is an excellent example of understanding the business case and also doing what's right. And not enough companies yet have really figured out that equation. And I hope more do get on board with it because it benefits them in the long run. It does. Well, I appreciate you and everybody at LLI for pushing us. And we're learning from you. We're learning alongside you.

And the partnership is just one I could not be more excited and thankful for. You know, Joelle, in other interviews, you've noted that the Latino community is not just one thing. So what does it mean to you to try to address that complexity in your work? I once told my daughter, which by the way, if you ever want a good interview, you got to sit me down, maybe a multi-generational approach here, but you know, one day... Is this the daughter who wants to run the Broncos? Yes, that same one. But it was really interesting because, you know, during COVID, they actually got to see what mom does for a living, which was interesting.

I just talk a lot. So they're like, mom's a talker. But, you know, it was interesting. One day we were having this conversation about leadership and we were having, you know, just conversations about all of this work and what it means. And and, you know, nothing tells you. I think she was probably seven at the time and talking about it. And she looked at me straight on and she says, Mom, but how do you get Latinos to actually get along with other Latinos? Latinos to actually get along with other Latinos. And I said, in essence, my job is to find as much fabric as possible and build the widest tent for as many of us that want to join, because it's a

complex, diverse, beautiful mosaic that we represent. And my daughter can really resonate with that because I have twins. And Mateo Joaquin looks exactly like me. And my daughter has blonde hair and blue eyes. And most people will not accept her as a Latina. And they don't see her as such. And so she's dealt with her own identity and her own acceptance of what that means. And I explained that that we have to deal with internally is what mom's responsibility is externally. And I think the first is education.

We are a mosaic, not a monolith. We represent multiple cultures and languages and backgrounds and nativities. And we're ninth generation and first generation. We are socially and economic advanced and deprived. And we're all of these things. And one of the most important lessons I have with every speech I give, with every leadership opportunity that I take is reminding the Latino community that we're part of the problem and we are the solution. So one of the major flaws of some in the Latino community is judging other Latinos for not being Latino enough. If you don't speak Spanish, you're not Latino. If you're ninth generation, you're not really Latino. If you come from Brazil and not Mexico, you're not really Latino. So part of this is education,

that we are this pan-ethnic mosaic. I call it an artichoke and I wish I could come up with something more sexy than that. Oh, but they're delicious. But Latinos are like artichokes. You know, we've got layers of diversity and the goal is to get to the heart of it, right? Because at the heart of an art, at the center of an artichoke is the heart of it. And, and if we thought of the Latino community as something as beautiful that with many layers that has this essence and this heart and this core, I think we would embrace the diversity more broadly. And the other space where I really want to advocate is, you know, this issue of race. We're an ethnic group with many races. And so we have to do a better job of embracing our Asian Latinos, our Afro LatinosLatinos, we represent heritage and nativity from all continents.

And so we really have to do a better job of opening that story and showing Latinos for the full mosaic that we are. Jeez, y'all are everywhere. Can you imagine the power if everybody recognizes that? The diaspora is a beautiful, beautiful thing and often not acknowledged at all. In fact, the largest Latino population and the Afro-Latino in the Caribbean and South America. I mean, if you really look at the history of Latinos and I went and I did my genetic

report, so I proved everything that my family was telling me, everything that they told me was true. I could prove it all, even from the villages of my ancestors. And so, you know, I think when we embrace that connectivity, it really makes it easy for us to see that we're not just allies. Like, this is us. This is the story of us. We're all connected in these beautiful ways. This is us. This is the story of us. We're all connected in these beautiful ways.

Again, systemic barriers and racism, these things were built to keep us separated. They were built to define who we are. They were built to only allow us certain pieces of our identity. We have the power to dispel all of that. We have the power to embrace something that's bigger. dispel all of that. We have the power to embrace something that's bigger. And our first session in our leadership development program, Ignite, is the roots of our identity. And we go there on session number one, where people can actually do their own identity inventory to really expand their own acceptance and understanding of who they are, where they come from, why that matters. And again, some of the topics we covered is why do we change that from circumstance to circumstance? Or why do we only

accept certain pieces of ourselves when the whole is actually what's so valuable? So we go there on session one of our leadership program, because I think that's the heart of the artichoke is who we are and why that matters to have such a broad understanding of ourselves and our histories. Is that part of the neuroscience you referenced? Yeah, it's a little bit of it. It's about a mindset. So I got introduced to neuroscience through an amazing, amazing friend of mine. And he knows how my brain works and he knows how I need to put pieces together. And he introduced me to it. And it was such an aha that in order to change how we're showing up or what's happening, we really have to change how we think first.

And also in an AI-driven world and a VUCA world and a collaborative world, our brains just aren't wired to operate the way we'd like. And the best way that I could tell you is if you looked at a 1990s RadioShack ad, you're going to see 20 products on there that don't exist today because they all exist in our cell phones. And the amount of information that we receive in our careers today in a single week, that we receive in our careers today in a single week, the amount of processing and decision-making and inputs and outputs we have to go through is more in a single week than previous generations did throughout their entire careers in a single week. So part of the neuroscience piece, to Greg's point, is we're not just training Latino leaders. We're training leaders for the 21st century who happen to be Latino. So I wanted them to have all the best advantages, things like productivity,

collaboration, agility, the things that really are important for 21st century leadership. I need them to be better prepared because the realities of their time means that they have to be operating different than back in the day when we lived in kind of the industrial age where you learned your job and you did your job well and you kind of stayed in place. That's not the way of the world today. So we want to change mindsets as part of neuroscience, but the neuroleadership we teach is really preparing them for 21st century leadership, which is going to look very different than it has in the past. So I brought inbuilt curriculum around that so that they could be more productive, more agile, more connected, and ultimately more effective leaders. I want to go through the

program. It's fabulous. It's fabulous. Yeah, it is. Doesn't it sound exciting? I mean, yeah, yeah, I do too. Anything that says neuroscience, I want in. I like when you said we go there on the first day. We're ready to go there. We go there. The second session, by the way, is overcoming barriers like fear and lack of confidence and imposter syndrome and cultural norms. I mean, one of, for Latinos in particular. You want to do like kickboxing in the air while you say it. and imposter syndrome and cultural norms. I mean, one of, for Latinos in particular-

This is making me want to do like kickboxing in the air while you say it. I'm telling you, for Latinos in particular, one of those cultural norms is humility. I just had this conversation with my children. They're big time competitive soccer players. And in the Latino community, you're taught to be humble. It's actually really hard.

It's still hard for me to take a compliment or hear people give me compliments. I get awkward, actually. And part of that is I remember my grandparents saying, mija, be humble, mija. Mija, be grateful, mija. And those are good teachings. I think humility is important. But sometimes it can come at a cost where we actually can't receive compliments and we diminish our successes in a way. And this perpetuates some of those feelings. So module two deals with those very things that, again, are unique to Latinos in the workplace. I know what some of these messages have been throughout our lives and the things we've been taught. And how do we reconcile some of that with actually

the ways of the workplace? And how do we bring out both sides of that. So in module two, we actually have them practice taking a compliment. And it's a huge aha moment. People will ask me, how do you overcome imposter syndrome? I overcome my lack of confidence by actually listening and accepting compliments. Step number one. And it's crazy that by module two, compliments, step number one. And it's crazy that by module two, they're actually having to self-teach how to take compliments because for so long, that was not necessarily accepted. And in some cultures in the Latino community, some that are first, second gen who just moved over here, particularly from Central America, humility is really important to them and their culture. And they struggle a lot in the workplace, feeling confidence without this weight of humility, you know, kind of being an

intention. So they get to work through some of that and figure out what works for them. I always say that when someone gives you a compliment, that person is giving you a gift. So it is a generous act to accept it. I don't know if that helps you, but you accept the gift. I'm a complimentary nut. I love to give compliments. I love to give them. I'm a work in progress in receiving them. I'm going to be honest. I'm always honest. And that is, it is a work in progress. And I think for a lot of Latinos, it is as well. It's just, it's something that goes against maybe some of our early teachings in our early lives. So we have to be intentional about receiving those compliments. It doesn't

come easy for some of us. Joelle, what do you think your grandfather would say to you now? Hmm. You know, for my grandfather, there is nothing more important than family. And I think he would caution me, actually. I think he'd give me all the accolades of being, you know, and tell me how proud he was. But there's nothing more important than family. And I think the last module that we actually do in the program is about total leadership. And part of that is, what is work-life balance? And how do you make sense, this equation of dedicating your time and efforts to this massive undertaking? And at what cost? So obviously, I spend a lot of time on the road that takes me away from my family.

Being in this space and doing this work is lonely. It is hard. You take 10 steps forward to take 30 back on any given day. And I would say that my grandfather would warn me and advise me to make sure that I'm in balance the way that it works for me, that I need to be present as a mom and a daughter and a friend and a wife and that I have to be whole in that way. And I will be honest that sometimes I can get trapped in this kind of work and it just pulls you and it's hard to say no to things because all of this matters so much, but he would tell me, families, everything. So don't, don't lose sight of that. Wow. And yeah, I echo everything you said about this work and it can be damaging, you know into individually to us.

And I'm very similar to you, Joelle, that family grounds me, it centers me and it fuels my ability to continue to do the work. And it sounds like that's true of you, too. And that's certainly something I think we share in common. So, Craig, will you join me in a little tough love with Joelle? Joelle, you've got to sit tight. I'm going to compliment you now. So to the awkward. Yeah so I want you to know that you are extraordinary and inspiring and I really appreciate your sharing your grace and and grit with us thank you it was a privilege like I really you Faith, there are certain conversations we have and we get to meet a lot of people in doing what we do on this. But today,

I really do. It was a privilege to meet you. And Faith is right. You are inspiring. And I just want to thank you again for the work that we do together. And I'm excited about the work that we will do. I have a ton of ideas and things that I want to talk to you about. So thank you for giving us the gift of your time today. the program, I believe we've planted a seed in them. I've watched them grow. I watched them go and do extraordinary things. And so I know it's working. I know it matters. And I just really appreciate you all and your partnership with us and for giving me this platform to share some of these really important stories and share my insights today. One quick thing, Joelle, do you speak Spanish now? No, but I'm learning. So I just offered my staff. So my kids, my twins are learning and I'm learning alongside them. And I offered that to my staff actually to do private Spanish lessons so that

we as a team could, many of us shared the same story that we had to give up our language. And so, you know, getting private tutor and trying to bring that into the workplace and practicing, practicing, practicing and honoring that. I can hear it. I can listen to it. I know it. I can read it where my confidence lacks is speaking it. But I am going to continue to work on that.

I believe you will. Cheers to you. Yeah. Cheers to you. Thanks for listening to another episode of Real Good. If you like what you heard, subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Cheers to you.