StarTalk Radio - StarTalk Live at Town Hall with Buzz Aldrin (Part 1)

Episode Date: September 15, 2013

Join Commander Neil deGrasse Tyson, Co-Pilot Eugene Mirman and crew members Buzz Aldrin, John Oliver and Andrew Chaikin on StarTalk Live’s mission to explore Town Hall in NYC. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to new episodes ad-free and a whole week early.

Welcome to StarTalk, your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. StarTalk begins right now. We have a super wonderful show. It is my great pleasure to bring on the host, the Robert Plant of astrophysics. Ladies and gentlemen, Neil deGrasse Tyson! So all of tonight is about the human exploration of space. So let's get to our guests. Yes. I would like to bring out a very funny comic.

Someone who is sadly British. Ladies and gentlemen, the wonderful and very funny John Oliver. John Oliver. So there's actually a good friend of mine, a journalist, he's actually a geologist by professional training. He wrote the book From Earth to the Moon, on which the 12-part TV series was based, that came out about 10 or 15 years ago. He wrote a book on getting to Mars. The guy's all into this, and he's been into it since he was a kid.

Join me in giving a warm New York welcome to Andrew Shakin. Andrew, come on out. Andrew, you've written about the moon almost like you were there. Yeah. Well, I talked to all the guys who did go there. You didn't actually go to the moon. I invite you on the show. Listen, I am a storyteller of space. So what I did was I went around and talked to all the guys who went to the moon for eight years,

collected their experiences and wrote it down. By the way, the name of the book is A Man on the Moon. Excuse me. A Man on the Moon. But, you know, like you. There were six men on the moon. You said a man on the moon. But you know, like you... There were six men on the moon. You said a man on the moon. Twelve.

Twelve. Oh, sorry. Six missions, twelve. You're awesome. You got me on that one. Twelve. That's good. So, all you ever did was talk to these guys.

Well, yeah, but they said really cool stuff. This is New York City. This is Town Hall. We are in Times Square. They said really cool stuff. This is New York City. This is Town Hall. We are in Times Square. They said really cool stuff. Sorry, I've got to do better. Ladies and gentlemen, slide over. Hit it.

Now, one last question. Now, are you required to do the demanding area of the extermination activities ever? Ladies and gentlemen, the fire is on! I'm gonna go to hell, I'm gonna go to hell I'm gonna go to hell, I'm gonna go to hell I'm gonna go to hell, I'm gonna go to hell I'm gonna go to hell, I'm gonna go to hell For those of you dragged here by your friend, he walked on the moon. Just so you know. So Buzz, you really need no introduction, except for the seven people who were dragged here.

So Buzz, you were on Apollo 11, the first mission to land on the moon and walk. Your footsteps are there. And I'm told that all the pictures of single astronaut images on the moon are of you because Neil Armstrong took all those pictures. Is that right? He wouldn't let go of the camera. Oh, okay. Buzz, we might try to get you a handheld mic because we can hear you a little better. Let's see. I think it's out. Oh yeah. Can you, is this, is this thing on? Okay. Maybe not. It's's see i think it's out oh yeah can you is this is this thing on okay maybe not it's coming yeah it's coming a voice in my head told me it's coming in 20 seconds yeah i hear voices isn't that incredible we also we can send a man to the moon but we cannot amplify him to talk breakfast

boy we've failed buzz Aldrin in a big way. So, Buzz, you were a fighter pilot in which war? Korean. Korean War. So you must have been like fully aware that we're not just beating the Russians to the moon, we're beating the Russians flexing military muscle, right? I mean, wasn't that, does that pervade? We were catching up

You remember Sputnik? Yeah, I was born a year today after Sputnik launched. So I was like maybe yeah, yeah, that's what it did The number of people because we didn't really think they were gonna be able to do that Even though they said they're gonna put up a satellite Then the dog Yeah like a Even though they said they're going to put up a satellite. And a dog. Yeah. Laika. Laika didn't come back alive. No?

No. Yeah. Oh. The Russians killed the dog. Sorry. Sorry. Eugene Merman is part Russian, just so you know. The part that I was born in Russia. I would even add all the parts.

I was born in Russia. I would even add all the parts. So, Buzz, were any of you guys thinking we're doing this to explore for science, for anything other than flexing muscle? Of course, yeah. We were doing it for that reason, but it was certainly a race. We were told that. I probably was more antagonistic than anybody else. There were a couple of you know real cozy people let's buddy buddy but those were our enemies yeah were you hoping you'd get to the moon and

there'd be a russian that you could punch there all right so you guys collected rocks i mean andy here is a geologist so he must have like been really tickled that you guys would collect rocks and bring them back to Earth. I thought he was an astronomer, but you're telling me he looks down? Planetary geologist, so I look up at the rocks. How's that? But that's the reason why I was 13 when Buzz and Neil walked on the moon. buzz and neil walked on the moon the fact that that was going on that's the reason why me and a lot of other people and probably you got into astronomy and space science that was our inspiration it wasn't true for me but it's okay if it's true okay okay well it was it was that and then the

exploration of mars by the robotic all right so exploration so the exploration of the solar system that's also the reason why eugene and I have underachieved so much. That's the key reason. So, Buzz, you're on the moon. You're collecting rocks. So there's a little bit of science that comes out of that. You lay down the corner reflectors, right? Those are cool.

Corner reflectors. Yeah, that was Neil's experiment. It was pretty easy. You just put it down. That's all you have to do put it down like that the seismometer was a hell of a lot more complicated and you deployed the seismometer yeah there was a leveling device that consisted of of kind of a round dish and they had a BB in there. Okay? Now with the low lunar gravity, guess what that BB was doing?

Ra ra ra ra ra ra ra ra. Come back an hour later and it's right in the center. That's not a bubble. No, that's a- It sounds like a child's toy. So Buzz, today's dollars like a hundred billion dollars to put you on the moon. You and 11 others. That's often criticized. You know, the excitement wears off eventually, and then they say, why did we do this?

What's your answer when people ask you that? They told us to do it, so we did it. That's a really clean answer. The most important thing is how many people reached the moon. That would include, I guess, Apollo 8, which orbited the moon that would include i guess apollo 8 which the answer is 24 24 now you could almost say that the saturn rocket got three people up in top nine rockets went to the moon little mathematics tells you nine times three? Not 30, but so close. But it isn't 24. It's 27.

It's 27. It's 27. Okay. This is where we went to liberal arts schools. Sorry, scientist. All right. So, scientist. All right. So, Buzz, the answer is three Navy guys got to fly twice. Oh.

Why? Now it comes out. Guess which branch of the service Buzz was in. Not the Navy. And there was a little bit of Air Force-Navy rivalry in the astronaut corps, you know. But that's going to happen in any group of competitive people, right? Yeah, but the Navy is the one that really jabs and means it.

Well, the Navy fished you out of the ocean, so somebody's got to, like, give them props for that. Right? What aircraft carrier picked you up? The Wasp. Hornet. The first time, then the Hornet, second time. Oh, okay.

Okay. Because we've got the Intrepid here. Yeah. Yeah, we've got the Intrepid Air and Space Museum, right? They're parked walking distance from here. You know what? What? People still, you know, it's a very small minority of people,

but there are some people who don't believe Buzz and the other guys went to the moon. Now, if somebody really doesn't believe believe that there's no way you're going to convince them but one really neat piece of evidence is to look at the video of buzz running on the moon and the video from the later flights and the movies and watch the way the dust moves it's not like anything you've seen on earth because it's's the moon. It doesn't, well, but why? Why is it different? And the reason is it's in a vacuum, there's no atmosphere, and it's in one sixth gravity,

so instead of billowing up in a cloud, each particle of dust is like a tiny little cannonball, and you get a spray of particles that goes out like an umbrella. So what you're saying is that on Earth... And that's impossible to fake. And certainly was impossible to fake in the 1960s and 70s. And a lot of people don't think that Avatar happened,

but it did. So on Earth, the dust would have air resistance. It would have air resistance, and it would travel... You'd kick your foot down, kick your foot, and here on Earth, it just kind of moves stuff out in front. But on the Moon, you do do that and it goes out and it all forms in a semicircle with really is just minus the noise because there's no air no one can hear your boots yeah I do you know the dust I didn't know there's no noise were you there i said it went

i'm trying to help you neil but in here but i was there's only so much i can do no i've not been to space but i've done physics experiments that simulate the conditions of space which tell me that in fact in space no one can hear you go scream right but they can hear the dust part can i can i bring up one other extremely cool thing that buzz talked about when he came back from the moon the moon is one quarter the size of the earth it's about 2100 miles across and you want to talk about the fact that you could when you when you stood on the moon you could tell that you were standing on a smaller body a sphere you could see it curved well yeah there's no atmosphere so it's crystal clear and you can see and see and see and we were in a pretty

flat area it was the dullest area they could find and that's where because it was the safest yeah the safest but you could see essentially the moon curving away from you as you looked at there was no doubt you were on a sphere so if civilization had started on the moon you would never have had the flat earthers right i mean you would just yeah they would be truly ridiculous we're here it's like no you never know the bus what inspired you to become an astronaut MIT the Massachusetts to get away from it because it it's like, ah! Yeah. What?

How do I put the most distance between myself and this academic institution? I'll go that way. The real answer is Buck Rogers. Really? Really, really. Wilma? Yeah.

Sexy babe. Dr. Hewer. Remember that? All the women in science fiction are good looking it's it's what makes not gravel gurney oh okay okay almost all right so it was it was science fiction that did this yeah well it was science fiction and a hatred of russia yeah buck ro Rogers plus chess equals let's go to the moon.

So, Buzz, back in your day, in the Right Stuff day, your preparation to go into space I think is very different from today. Today, you know, anybody can go into space. Back in your day, they left you in the desert for a month to see

if you... Well, in between month to see if you, I mean. Well, in between being on alert in Germany, Life magazine came out and you open it up and you see this little capsule thing that these guys are going to go in, the escape tower and Mercury, and they're going to pick some people and they're not poets they're not philosophers Eisenhower said we want success we're gonna get test pilots okay I read this and I didn't get trained as a test pilot I wasn't that good, okay? No, I didn't want the response. Is this only just coming out now? But you did something between I'm not that good and I think I'll walk on the moon. So what was that? I told you it was MIT.

You went to MIT and then were like... Yeah, and then I had to write a thesis. About how you'd like to go to the moon? No, about something that you're gonna become sort of an expert in. What you don't realize. So I knew how to intercept airplanes. Shot down a couple of them in Korea, see.

Thank you. Yup. So maybe in the space business, they're gonna have something up there and maybe you want to get launched, and you want to go catch it. The French word is rendezvous.

Oh, don't use the French word. Unless you must. So you majored in aeronautical engineering? Astronautical. Astronaut astronautical that must have been brand new it was okay so you wrote a thesis on how to dock space no no random intercept orbital mechanics okay so you wrote this thesis and then since the the department is new and it's mit you are the only person in the world possibly the universe who figured out how to do this so now

even though you were not a test pilot you had value to these future activities is that correct that's what i thought i got a letter from ed white good friend of mine he'd uh left our fighter squadron in germany went back to michigan got a master's degree, went through the test pilot school. He writes me a letter or calls me up, whatever. He says, 1962, they're looking for some more astronauts. They picked up seven of them, the Mercury 7 in 1959. He says, Buzz, I'm going to apply for this. And I said, shoot, Ed, I can shoot gunnery better than you can. If you're going to apply, I will too. Wrong.

Ed was picked. I was not. But. But. Next year. Next year. As P.B. Herman once said, everyone's got a big butt. Okay.

So your butt is, yes. They P.B. Herman once said, everyone's got a big butt. Okay? So your butt is, yes? They changed their requirements. Somebody must have known that I was doing something of interest at MIT. So you became an astronaut on a fluke. On a fluke, right. On a fluke that you wanted to do that, though. You wanted to be an astronaut. Yeah. You give me something bigger wanted to do that, though. You wanted to be an astronaut. Yeah.

Yeah. You give me something bigger, higher, faster, brother, go do it. So you just wanted to push a boundary, whatever that boundary was. If it was going higher than anywhere else, that's one thing. If it's landing on that thing, it's another. I wanted to be a part of that group of guys that were going to do something. Right. Pretty fascinating.

Pretty different. And you were also one of the first people to walk in space. Yeah, but that was... Anybody can walk in space, Neil. What Buzz did is truly impressive. You know Buzz was the guy that applied a training method that solved the problems of floating in space, EVA, extravehicular activity. They were in these suits that were pressurized, and they were so difficult to operate in zero gravity, where you're basically on a three-dimensional ice-skating rink.

I mean, action and reaction. And Buzz was the first guy to say, let's train in a swimming pool. So they... No, no. Okay. I've been a scuba diver since 1957 and so when these two engineers from baltimore decided that maybe this stuff in space could be done in another medium like underwater

neutrally buoyant where the body weighs about you know how much percentage are we 90% high when you get to the same density as water and you know bubbling so anyway it sounded pretty good to me some of the other astronauts now that's just not gonna work but it did so buzz you've been a scuba diver and an astronaut do you just hate the surface of the earth just hate the surface of the earth john but there's more not only does he hate the surface even when he's on the surface of the earth back in his day he was a pole vaulter do i not have this right god i would get away from the ground so you started with pole vaulting and then were like i should probably try a spaceship well I got tired of eating sawdust.

When you come down, you land in a pile of sawdust. Yeah. Yeah. I identify with you so much, Buzz. Buzz, do you ever dream about going back to the moon? Back to the moon? Not as a nation, but as a human being. Why would I want to do that?

I don't know. It sounds fun. Richard Branson's guy said, how'd you like to fly in our little thing? Suborbital. That's not what he calls it. Just to clarify

the physics of this, NASA goes into orbit and then perhaps at one time, 40 years ago ago went out of earth orbit to other destinations branson is imagining a spaceship what he calls a spaceship that goes up and then comes back down never achieves orbit there's no heat shields you have to for like five minutes at most 62 miles when they're engineers see they wanted me to support their program lend a little flavor to it so he said what would you think about if we gave you a flight in our

virgin galactic spaceship too which other people are paying two hundred thousand dollars that's exactly right i said if i did that you would consider that you just gave me two hundred thousand dollars right i don't see it in my bank account now now who's gonna get the publicity out of me flying in your machine not me. This is peanuts. And who's taking the risk, me or you? I think they should have let you do the commercial campaign for that, and that should have been the slogan. Come fly virgin.

It's peanuts. You know, I happen to be an axe ambassador. You know what that is? AXE. AXE. The stuff they spray on your body? The stuff that makes you mad? And all the women come chasing after you? Yes.

See, Buzz, I would have thought at the bar Telling the lady I went to the moon that that would be enough. Yeah, you know you all need something to smell You are the one man who does not need to ask for this paper We need that to smell like our concept of what you smell like But they gave away 22 rides internationally. Thousands of people applied for the possibility.

And this was exactly what I was trying to do with the lottery that I thought about 20 years ago. I thought that was a brilliant idea. Tell people, I thought that was a brilliant idea.

No, it wasn't my idea, but I thought the way to get thousands of people excited about it... What was the share space idea? What was the plan? To share space among lots of people. How do you do it? You buy a share of space.

And if you win... I think we won a little more. I know. Talking to comics, the professors are all... Come over to this side. These two are idiots. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We get it. We get it.

Anyway, to try and get a lottery done, which is my objective, all of a sudden, I get a call, go to New York, and start advertising this new product,

and they're going to give away 22 rides. In space? No space no no in suborbital space no sort of near space space adjacent how is it put are you describing airplane flights in a way no it's more than an airplane but less than a spaceship is that its tagline it's a rocket that somehow goes over 100 kilometers sounds pretty good yeah and then falls back down sounds not it's a good thing they it's a good thing they didn't use 100 miles yeah sure is yeah that's a little higher yeah and when they come down oliver they call them that's what i don't think anybody's learning it's so close to learning that it's fine But you went to the moon, came back, was there like a week?

Eight days. Eight days. So with any like health effects or long-term psychological effects, not to get personal, I'm just asking asking that's got to mess with your head you got to give a lot of speeches you got to travel around the world do all that yeah you it does something to your head answer that one okay you had a lot of memorization to do and a lot of talks. That was the psychological effect of walking on the moon. And we got to see which motorcycle was the best in all these places we visited for parades.

Triumph. Triumph was the best motorcycle. But more important than that, this is 1969. Where were the miniskirts the shortest? So you did mean, Jim. Earth, Australia. Earth, Australia. Okay.

Is that a scientific? A new data point. Is that a scientific? A new data point. I've often wondered, Buzz, how returning from the moon, you navigate the concept of enthusiasm. Because do you look at like a motorbike and think, yeah, that's a great motorbike, but it's not as good as going to the moon? How do you enjoy anything fully ever again? Oh, this is a delicious chicken cutlets but it's not as good as going to the moon can you please take that back you must think

that that's a real pleasant place to go to no but just just in terms of this what your what the specter of what you saw in your mind how do you how does anything match up to that how do you how does anything match up to that how do you go and enjoy a movie i think oh i liked alvin and the chipmunks but that moon thing kind of spoilt it for me it wasn't as fun as we think it might be well i called it desolate all right magnificent desolation that'd'd make a good title. The most lifeless thing you could imagine.

You can't find a place here on Earth that's more lifeless. Iowa. Iowa. Black sky. So, Buzz, there are people who have a little bit of sort of nationalism within them here in America, and they don't want to see some other country stepping on your boot prints good on the moon good except the boot prints that were on the wrong side of the sun the guy said don't walk in front of the photo collectors but i did although and it's there for a million years and now I want somebody to go up there and

brush away the footprint Did you go to the moon and did like you were just like fucking I'm gonna do whatever I want I'm gonna walk wherever my Stopping me LBJ. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear you, Mission Control, but I have the high ground here, and I think I'm going to... Presumably the moon has a special place in your heart and mind and soul. So there's no talk today about moon bases. You're okay with that?

Oh, I'm talking about moon bases are you okay with that oh i'm talking about moon base you are yeah you want moon base no yeah but they're for international people not the u.s oh we'll build them yeah sure russia yeah he's a rus. Not anymore. So you've got... Not anymore. No, not going to happen. So Moonbase is for international science research, such as what goes on in Antarctica, I guess. It's an international base there.

Takanoids, Chinese Takanods. German astronauts. Indian, Japanese. Isn't that kind of what the space station is? But they're doing things for prestige in their country. In their country, that's for sure. All of them. We've done that.

So what should we do for prestige once again? Lead what happens at the moon without wasting money. Okay. So, wasting money. Yeah. When you could use it, better going elsewhere. Oh. Okay, like?

Like San Francisco. You have to go. It's wonderful. But Buzz, if we're going to go to Mars and hang out, shouldn't we, like, practice hanging out on the moon? No. Why? Well, because the gravity's different. So?

So. It's got gravity at all. Yeah, but you don't practice at one place to then go somewhere else and do it. Oh, yeah, Mr. Swimming? No, we didn't do that. Sorry. Please don't fly a jet into me. You're probably right.

Just not a bad example. So, Dennis Tito, who is a gazillionaire in California who was the first space tourist, he flew to the... Just bought a seat on the Russian Soyuz. Right, in 2001. And how do the old-timers feel about people just buying a seat? When you guys were, like, starving in the desert, becoming the right stuff, to earn that seat, you got people who just pull out a billfold and plunk it down. You okay with that?

No, I'm looking at how much I got paid for going to the booth. How much? I filed a travel voucher when I came back. You had to expense going to the book. It's true. Is that really true?

In the heart of the Cold War. Is that true? Most of the meals were government meals. Yeah. Most of the meals were government meals. Yeah. Most of the transportation was government. The rocket. Yeah, government rocket. The parachute, the aircraft carrier.

Oh, my God. I did need to rent a car. And you had to cover that? To get from the airport in Florida to the crew quarters. Did the government cover that or were they like, sorry, you have to get there somehow and then we'll bring you to the moon part? Look, I have a damn official government travel voucher. $33.31. That was a lot more in 1969. Yeah, but not that much.

That's a fair point. You did all right. Yeah. You're welcome. You could buy the Rolling Stones catalog at the time. I keep thinking of Buzz Lightyear's phrase, to infinity and beyond. The dude's name is Buzz. Did you get any kickback from that?

You know what the name was initially? What? Lunar Larry. That does not sound like a hit to me. Wow. No, he said, we got to do better than that. Yeah. Yeah.

So we went to the list of guys and they liked Buzz. And that is your official name. That's not just a nickname. Well, no, it's legal now. Legal now. At the time, it was illegal. It was illegal. He was breaking the law.

Right? I had to sneak around. It was a tax dodge because he knew he owed the government so much for going to the moon. Especially the mileage charge was a killer. Don't rent a moon vehicle from Avis. The problem is, you can get to the moon in three days. It's a news cycle. People will think about you the whole way there.

And Mars takes nine months. And then you're there for years. And then you come back three years later. No, they're not coming back. So you can't come back or you'd have to mine stuff. Let me ask you a question. Sure. You know history?

Barely. But a little. You ever heard of Christopher Columbus? Yes. Okay. He came and he Barely. But a little. You ever heard of Christopher Columbus? Yes. Okay. He came and he went back. Yeah, yeah. He's a sissy.

Or not. How about the Pilgrims? The Mayflower? They did a great job. They came over. They landed at Plymouth Rock. Did they hang around waiting for the return trip? No, no, no.

No. They came here to settle. Yeah, yeah. So, let's go to Mars and definitely also maybe bring some smallpox blankets. Did they hang around waiting for the return trip? No, no, no. No! They came here to settle. Yeah, yeah. So, let's go to Mars and definitely also maybe bring some smallpox blankets. Smallpox? Just in case! Colonize Mars with a colony that has no intent on returning.

Yeah. The people that go there train them and they volunteer so they need to be a fertile community of people what's the point of sending six people there then bringing them back what are they going to do when they get back here going parades like you did that's a good national effort that's worth expending that money you know it costs four times as much to bring them back as it does to send them there yeah but they would be so promiscuous when they got back it would be pretty fun for them yeah but here's a serious question and it's a real problem because once you go beyond the earth's magnetic field you're getting zapped by radiation that's right constantly and even when you're on zapped by radiation that's right constantly and

even when you're on mars if you have your habitat and you put a bunch of dirt and rock over it you're fine when you're in the habitat but when you're outside in your space suit you're still getting zapped so you know the to me the moon is kind of the rodney danger field of the solar system doesn't get enough respect and let me just give you my three reasons why the moon deserves to be considered the jewel in the crown of the solar system besides the Earth. Number one, the moon is the cosmic library where we can read the earliest history

of the solar system most clearly. Because it preserves its crater record. Right. And may even have pieces of the early Earth at the time life formed that were kicked there by meteorite impacts. That's number one. Number two, it's an outward bound school

that's only three days from home where you can learn to deal with these problems. And number three, it's the only place in the solar system where you can stand on another world and see the beauty of the Earth as a planet, as the oasis in the blackness of space. That consciousness raising sight that we got when we went to the moon. From Mars, the Earth is like a littleasis in the blackness of space that consciousness raising sight of that we got when we

went to the moon from mars the earth is like a little star in the sky so i think the moon deserves a lot more respect than we've been giving it does anybody agree with me i mean come on were you ever were you ever in the military? No. Don't you realize what leadership means? I agree with you about that. We led the world when we went to the moon. Do you think we're going to lead when we get there and are greeted by Chinese? I don't think it's in either order. On that note, we are StarTalk Live at Town Hall.