StarTalk Radio - The Science of Star Trek

Episode Date: June 22, 2009

The Star Trek TV and movie series imagine a bright future for humans in space, one in which we explore alien worlds with the aid of advanced technology. Because the writers tried to include as much realistic science as possible within the fictional framework, the stories have been an inspiration for students, scientists, inventors; and anyone interested in pondering our destiny on Earth and beyond. In this show, Brandon Fibbs reviews the latest Star Trek movie now in theaters, and Lawrence Krauss talks about how Star Trek uses science to explore what is possible in our universe.NOTE: All-Access subscribers can listen to this entire episode commercial-free here: https://www.startalkradio.net/all-access/science-star-trek/ Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to new episodes ad-free and a whole week early.

I don't find secrets. It's 8.3, 7.6, but I... Our universe is filled with secrets and mysteries, leaving us with many questions to be answered. Now more than ever, we find ourselves searching for those answers as the very fabric of space, science, and society are converging. Here, for the first time, these worlds collide. As we give you the knowledge that breaks the barrier

between what is science and what is merely pop culture. This is StarTalk. Now, here's your hosts, astrophysicist Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson and comedian Lynn Coplitz. Star Talk. Welcome to Star Talk. I am your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson, astrophysicist, joined by Lynn Coplitz, my favorite co-host ever. I'm your only co-host ever.

Thanks, Dr. Neil. I'm your only co-host ever. Thanks, Dr. Neal. I remind you, she's a comedian. Lynn, Lynn, this is our fourth show. I know, it's very exciting. It's fun. I love this show, Neal. How's it going for you so far? It's fun, but you know, I was hit with an amazing epiphany the other day.

I was on the subway. Aren't all epiphanies amazing? Yeah, they really are. First of all, I'm really proud of myself for using my big SAT word right there. And Neil just immediately shoots it down like, aren't all epiphanies amazing? Yes. But anyway. No one ever says I had a boring epiphany the other day.

Yeah, I had this weird epiphany. No, I was thinking about the fact that it really is a huge thing, like blessing, exciting thing, whatever, for me to be able to sit and talk to you every day. Like, I don't know if I've been appreciating it because all of a sudden it hit me. There aren't a lot of astrophysicists. Like, how many people, you take things for granted sometimes. The fact that I get to talk to an astrophysicist once a week and now have one as a friend. I talk to myself all the time.

So, yes, I take it for granted. I know. And your wife is like, yeah, big deal. But what I'm saying, there's one in a million. You told me, what was the statistic? There's one in a million astrophysicists? Do the math, right? It's 6,000 astrophysicists in the world and about 6 billion people.

You divide those two numbers and astrophysicist is one in a million. One in a million? If you do the math, yes. And you can't just have like, I have one degree and then my fallback master's degree. You have a master's degree? I didn't know that. Oh, thanks for saying that. Like, you're so surprised.

Like, really? They give those out at DeVry? Yes, I have a master's degree. But you have like 20 degrees or something, don't you? I have one PhD and then there's like nine honorary doctorates. You get those for doing other stuff. So they're not... No, Neil, you get them for being really smart.

And you don't just give an honorary... They give you honorary degrees. I mean, I get honorary degrees in like drinking. You don't get an honorary... You get an honorary degree in whatever you get it in because they decide you're so smart. We just assume... All I know is that I didn't achieve anything special

to win any of those honorary degrees, but I did work hard for the one PhD I have. That's all. The one PhD. Not that complicated. How many books have you written? Nine books. Oh, my gosh.

I can barely keep a journal. Actually, my ninth book was actually on Pluto, it being the demoted ninth planet. Very few people know that. It was on Pluto. It was a hit on Pluto. It was huge. People, they love me on Pluto. I don't know what the It was on Pluto. It was a hit on Pluto. It was huge. People, they love me on Pluto. I don't know what the sales are on Pluto just yet.

And you know what? I was actually thinking about this. My point is that it's very nice to be able to sit and talk to you. And this is a show that tells people at home that they can talk to you too. Like, it's kind of neat. And Lynn, you do make me laugh. Thank you, Neil. That's my job.

That's my job. Put the nose and the shoes back on. Clown dance. But what I was going to say to you that I was thinking about this and I was thinking that I would also, if I were rich, I would probably want my own personal genius to walk around with me. And so it's kind of cool that I get you for free. You mean I might have been able to get paid for this? Yes, but it ticks me off because I was thinking, oh my gosh, now that I know Neil, I could actually go on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire. Well, Kings used to have court jesters and court astrologers, and they used to have folks that would just help them out and make their decisions for them.

The two of us could have met on a whole other lifetime is what you're saying. I would be the court jester and you would be the court astrologer. There you go. There you go. You would be the court astrologer. There you go. There you go. That was before the era of physics, though, when they just looked up at the sky and believed that the cosmos somehow influenced the life that you did not know you could control yourself.

All right, Neely. Well, now that we're friends and I can ask you things and call you Neely, I have to ask you a question. It's Dr. Neely to you. Dr. Neely? Yeah. Dr. Neely. Dr. Neely Degrassi Tyson.

What is physics exactly? I mean, I can ask you because there's no one. The producers who are now mortified. But I mean, I was thinking, I hear anatomy and physiology. What exactly is physics? I can ask you this. This is our fourth show, and you don't know what physics is yet. I know what it is, but I can ask you without you making me feel stupid, I thought.

Oh, okay. No, physics is the study of matter, motion, and energy, and their interplay in the past, present, and future of the universe. See, that's what I like about having your personal genius. I don't have to look it up. Okay. I could have just Googled it, but it was much easier to just wait and ask. And it's sad that there's the laws of physics in the world and everything else is opinion.

Because all foundations of what we know in the universe, in the natural world, ultimately get you to physical law. It has to do with matter, motion, or energy. That's right. Biology is based on chemistry. Chemistry is based on physics. Physics is the universe. That's how that works. So astrophysics takes the laws of physics

and applies them to cosmic objects so we can understand how the whole universe works not just Earth. That's interesting. You're very interesting, Dr. Neely. So today's subject is Star Trek. The movie is still out, the Star Trek

movie, the origin of the whole Star Trek series. I haven't seen it yet. You haven't seen it yet? I've seen it. You just said that like such a Trekkie. You just got so freaked out that I haven't seen the movie. You haven't seen it yet.

Let's see what our friend Bill Nye the Science Guy has to say in his manic minute. Go for it. Hey, hey, Bill Nye the Science Guy here. Like any good science fiction, Star Trek was predictive. Sure enough, we now have flip phones and hot chicken soup in just a few seconds. But Star Trek's real message isn't about technology or traveling to other star systems faster than light. Star Trek stories are human stories. There's war and disease, love, hate, passion, and hardest of all, indifference. And through all that, unlike much of science fiction,

we're not headed for an apocalypse. No, according to Star Trek, we should be wonderfully optimistic about the future. Humans will be thriving 300 years hence. And for the first time on television, we had diversity. People of East Asian, Eurasian, and recent African descent all working together, taking risks, and making astonishing discoveries. Star Trek will boldly go where no one has gone before. According to this premise, the future is bright.

This is Bill Nye the Science Guy, and I say, beam me aboard! Thank you, Bill Nye. You are listening to StarTalk, StarTalk Radio. I'm your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson. If you have a comment, an opinion, or just want to vent on something cosmic that's been bugging you, you can, in fact, tweet us at StarTalk Radio. If you're a tweeter or if you're into 20th century technology, you can pick up a phone and call us at 1-877-5-STARTALK.

So, Lynn, Star Trek is the subject today. It is. And Star Trek and physics? Yeah. What is wrong with me today? I don't know. Sorry. Okay.

So what are we going to talk about about Star Trek? My personal astrophysicist. Everything. Everything. Star Trek. It's created its own culture around itself. And it's a culture that spilled over into the real world

in ways that just most people have not even fully appreciated. It's what I've come to learn. From all the gadgets and all these things. But we should first learn a little bit about the movie. I think. Okay. I've got a friend who's a movie reviewer. Wait, should first learn a little bit about the movie, I think. Okay.

I've got a friend who's a movie reviewer. Wait, he's not going to spoil it for me because I – He's a movie reviewer. Oh, okay. So I think they know better. I haven't seen it yet. They're professionals at this. It's a friend, Brandon Fibbs, and he writes movie reviews at brandonfibbs.com.

But he's not only a movie reviewer, he's a sort of rabid Trekkie. I mean, rabid. Oh, Trekkie. And apparently it influences his marriage, too. He is married. I dated a Trekkie, and I'll tell you the problems with Trekkies. What? And it's going to happen today on the show.

I know it is. Please don't call me and yell at me. Why? Because Trekkies get very, like, if you say something wrong, and I know it's going to happen today, that's why I'm being a little quiet. Because the minute you say something wrong, they are all over you, like, oh, spaceships can't travel at warp speed.

What's wrong with you? And they know all this Trekkie stuff. Well, he's in an interesting situation because he's not only a movie reviewer and a Trekkie, but his wife works for NASA. And so there's a tension in their relationship because I've heard her say he plays in fake space while she works in real space. Right. That's like the difference between the French Canadians and the French.

Fake French and real French. Let's see what Brandon Phibbs has to say. Did you like Star Trek? I did like Star Trek, although I must confess I walked out of it the first time I saw it. Wait, wait. It's only been out a couple of weeks. How many times have you – don't answer that. How many times have you –

I saw it twice before it even came out in theaters. I walked out of it deeply agitated and deeply troubled. And if you're not a Star Trek fan or if you're a casual Star Trek fan, you're not going to notice anything that – or very few things that I noticed. But, of course, being the fan that I am, I was deep in the weeds of minutiae. And there were things that bothered me very much. What is the thing that bothered you the most?

Implausibility issues. The plot is absolutely ridiculous. Wait, wait, wait. We have, like, warp drives and Vulcans. But that's not ridiculous. But the plot somehow disturbed you. Well, as you could know, having watched it, there are issues that even laymen like myself have with quantum singularities and black holes and the way that into a black hole. I gave them that. If you're bad, that's what you would do. If you had red matter, they could turn something into a black hole.

I wasn't going to argue that. I thought the drill was an interesting concept. This thing that, whatever, laser thing that would drill through the center of a planet. If you wanted to kill the planet, then you dropped the red matter down that hole. I thought that was cool. Although, if the red matter were going to turn the planet into a black hole, it wouldn't have to start from the center. You just drop it on the surface.

Totally, that would work. Ah, but then you don't get those beautiful special effects of imploding planets. All right, so you had plot issues. I had plot issues. I had issues with taking a Starfleet cadet who hasn't even finished his tenure at the Academy yet and promoting him from cadet to captain after one particularly heroic weekend. That was Captain Kirk, wasn't it? Well, it's a pushing...

So you're saying in the real Starfleet Academy, that wouldn't have happened? I sound like your wife now? You know what? I can more easily accept warp technology than I can promoting a guy that fast. So you're not disturbed by the fact that that disturbs you? I will not confess it here or anywhere else except the privacy of my own dark room. All right, I got to leave you at that. BrandonPhibbs.com, thanks for coming on the show.

I love it. Okay, Brandon, if you're listening, I'm going to tell you right now why your wife finds you annoying, because you're listening, I'm going to tell you right now why your wife finds you annoying. Because you're annoying. Because his wife is working at NASA solving real problems. You know, she comes home to him upset about Klingon warp drives. Brandon, mow the yard. You're bothering me.

But he does sound interesting, and he does sound like he takes it to heart, and I like that in a critic. And at least he's married, unlike the stereotype we have for the rest of the Star Trek fans who haven't had their first date. Yes, but I doubt he's getting sex from his wife, but whatever. That's just a personal observation. I'm a comic, people. I'm a reporter of the truth. I go out, I see it, I bring it back. It's not always politically correct.

All right, well, I want to shift it back. It's not always politically correct. All right. Well, I want to shift this up. You're listening to StarTalk. Neil, I want to distract you away from Lynn. You're listening to StarTalk. I'm your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson, joined by Lynn Coplidge, a comedian. May I remind you every now and then that that's who she is. You want to tweet us at StarTalk Radio or if you're into old-fashioned technology, 1-877-5-STARTALK.

If you have an opinion or if you're dating a Trekkie or if you're a 40-year-old. If you are a Trekkie, peel your Spock ear off and pick up the phone. I want to pick up some subjects about Star Trek. There's a lot of technology that was introduced, envisioned in Star Trek, the original show, that today I think we have and take for granted. And I interviewed a friend and colleague named Lawrence Krauss. He's a professor down at Arizona State University. And he wrote a book. He's a physicist, pure physicist, but dabbled in like pop culture and wrote a book called The Physics of Star Trek. And it's one of his biggest selling books. And let's hear our first clip from my interview with him a few weeks ago.

This is Star Talk. I'm your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson. And today, I'm interviewing Professor Lawrence Krauss. He's at Arizona State University, and he's visiting New York this week as part of a major, major celebration of science for the World Science Festival. So Lawrence, welcome to town. It's great to be here, Neil. And what's your official title down there in Arizona? It's kind of long, but I'm the Foundation Professor in the School of Earth and Space Exploration, the Department of Physics, and the Beyond Center,

and the Director of the New Origins Initiative at Arizona State. Now, none of that is why I have you for this interview. I just want you to know that. Our show subject today is Star Trek. Star Trek. And I happen to know, as do many people who are great followers of yours, that you wrote a book called The Physics of Star Trek. First, why the physics of Star Trek and not like the physics of the Beverly Hillbillies or something? Some people suggest I do the physics of Baywatch. But anyway, Star Trek has clearly captured people's imaginations.

And I must admit, I didn't really appreciate it when I first wrote the book, how deeply ingrained it was in the public's imagination. And I think the reason is that Star Trek's about possibilities. Really, that's the basis of Star Trek, the possibilities of alien civilizations and psychologies, the possibility of getting past our petty myopic rivalries of the present time. Wait a minute, isn't any science fiction story about possibilities? So why would Star Trek rise above the rest? Well, but it's a hopeful view of possibilities. It's a view that somehow, somehow science and rationality in some way will make the

future a better place. Because a lot of science fiction are dystopic rather than utopic. Exactly. And it's not quite utopic, but it's close. It's not dystopic, first of all. And secondly, I mean, the actual mission of the Enterprise is to find out what's possible in the universe. And it seemed to me, you know, when you go to a party as you... The Enterprise is the name of their ship. Exactly. And as you probably know, if you go to a party and say you're a physicist,

people say, how about those Yankees? But if you talk about Star Trek or warp drive or time travel, people get fascinated and they don't realize in some sense they're fascinated with science. And so what I wanted to do was take something that people are clearly fascinated about and use it as a way to – a portal, if you wish, to learn about the real universe, which is actually more exciting. So you've written actually many books, some scholarly works and some popular books on the frontier of physics. But is that your biggest selling book, The Physics of Star Trek? Yeah, absolutely, without a doubt. And in fact, it's also, for me, more importantly, probably the only book where I've had seven, eight,

nine-year-olds come up to me and tell me how much they enjoyed it. And now, 15 years later, have met a number of physicists who said they were seven, eight, nine, and that caused them to be a physicist. And for me, that's's the greatest joy so you wasted your time writing all those other books i like him no he's a good guy laurence krauss he is interesting i would want to read that book but you know what i've always wondered that and as i was thinking about the show and he just touched on on the question i was going to ask that what came first like star trek or some of these ideas like did do you think that some of these scientists that are developing some of the ideas that are coming from Star Trek things were little kids watching the show? Yes.

And because it was in their heart. Yes, yes, yes. In fact, a whole generation of people inspired by what was shown on Star Trek became technologists, scientists, and engineers later on and invented these things. And they became dreamers. And if you don't have dreamers today, you don't have inventors tomorrow. Oh, listen to you being all deep. Hey, answer. Riddle me this, astrophysicist.

What's dystopic? Dystopic. I mean, I know what utopic is. Utopic is a beautiful future. Dystopic is imagining a really nasty future you don't want to occupy. Okay. But Star Trek sometimes showed bad things, too. It ends always beautifully.

We've got a caller at 1-877-5-STARTALK. We've got Don... Is it Don? Don, are you on the line? Calling from California. Hello? Yes. Yeah, this is Scott. Oh, Scott, excuse me. Great pleasure to talk to you, Dr. Tyson.

I've been following you for quite some time and really admire your work. Excellent. Thank you. Thank you. My question is, I've been curious about black holes. I understand the basic premise of it, but what is the outside shape? Is it flat? Is it round?

Is it cone-shaped? What do we know? Well, it turns out black holes, which, by the way, you want to avoid at all costs. What are you looking at me for? Black holes played a cameo role in the movie Star Trek, of course. If you haven't seen it, I strongly recommend it just for cultural, if not scientific reasons. Black holes that are not rotating are perfectly spherical. The event horizon, the boundary beyond which you go and never return, has the poetic name event horizon.

And tell Scott what they are. Oh, black holes, yeah. It's a region of space. It's like a vacuum, right? the boundary beyond which you go and never return has the poetic name of the horizon. And tell us what they are. Oh, black hole, yeah. It's a region of space. It's a vacuum, right? Gravity is so strong you fall in and you never come out. And light doesn't come out, so it's black and it's a hole. We just call it black hole.

We call it like it is. And get this. They rip you apart piece by piece, don't they? They would if you fell in, yeah. You told me that. I like that. I did. You like it?

Well, it's kind of cool because gravity keeps you, right? So gravity at your feet pulls you faster than the gravity at your head in a feet-first dive. And as that happens, your body's molecular strength cannot withstand the ripping force of gravity. And you rip the part atom by atom. And it's called spaghettification, actually. Spaghettification. Hey. And so black holes, it's been rumored that black holes connect through wormholes to another

part of the universe. In any case, the notion that you can go from one part of the universe to another by invoking a warp drive is something fundamental to what it is to get around the galaxy. First of all, are there wormholes? Theoretically, yes don't we've never seen one and as best as we know if you tried to create one they would immediately collapse on themselves for people listening in case you don't have a personal scientist at your side like i do all the time this is a little a little clue just so you know when they tell you that they don't

know like theoretically that means it's possible they won won't ever say, they don't say no. That's right. That means it's possible. If physics doesn't prevent it, it means it's possible. Scott is gone. We've got Don on the line. I think he's got a question about our warp drives. Don?

Yeah, hi. How are you doing? The one problem that I had with warp drive and warp drive technologies in the shows is with warp drive and warp drive technologies in the shows is they changed it up a little bit, and now you can do times three or times five for warp drive. Well, you got a problem with that? Yeah, well, no, no, no. The problem was somebody, I can't remember who did it,

but somebody did the mathematics on actually doing warp drive. I think it was the guy you were talking to last time. And supposedly there is a plateau that you can't go any faster. Don, let me ask you a question first. Excuse me, this is Lynn. Are you a Trekkie? Actually, yes, I am a Trekkie. You're talking warp drive like a diehard Trekkie.

No, I'm not a diehard Trekkie, but I do believe in the science behind a lot of it and the way people have been thinking and changing the way they perceive things in the universe. Okay, here's the point, though. So his question is warp drive, what speed is it? Don, the point is very simple yeah the galaxy is let's say a hundred thousand light years across and it would take you a hundred thousand years to traverse that at the speed of light that's longer than the tv commercial you need to speed a warp drive neil warp factor one lynn is just the speed of light so you go warp factor two three four five and in principle as you warp the space between where you are and where your destination is,

you can shorten that trip as short as your circumstances require. So I know of no limit to how much you can, Don, I don't know. I know of no limit to how much you can warp space to travel from one location to the other according to the laws of physics. Now, there might be some technological constraint. But there isn't really warp drive, is there? I mean, that's made up for the show. Yes, it's completely made up for the show. But he said he was a Trekkie. Don't get on

his case now because he's taking it seriously. I know, but you are too. I like that you're taking it just as seriously. You're like, I really don't know if exactly warp drive is the answer. Well, alright, Don, the answer then is that warp drive is actually the speed of light. Well, warp factor one. Warp factor. Yes, but you have higher warp factors where you can go as fast as you want.

So I know of no limit. And if there is one, I'll check with Lawrence and I'll get back to you guys on that. We're going to take a break. You're listening to StarTalk. Whether you're a space cadet or a rocket scientist, we want to hear from you. The phone lines are open. Call now. This is StarTalk.

Call now at 1-877-5-STARTALK. If you have an opinion on our show's subject today, Star Trek. The movie, the culture, the phenomenon, the gadgets, the... Lynn, you dated a Trekkie, apparently. Oh, I've dated everything. I've dated a Klingon, a Trekkie, Romulan. I remain fascinated by all the things that were shown in Star Trek and then show up today. For example, I remember when I was a kid and seeing the automatic sliding doors.

I said, oh, that'll never happen in centuries. But it happened. But it happened. But it happened. And we had to sort of crawl before we could walk. The early sliding doors had pressure-sensitive pads, so you'd step on the pad and the door would open. Now it's like electromagnetically triggered. And I always wave my hand in front of them.

Even now I do that. Why do you do that? Are you afraid your body doesn't? No, because it's like magical. I like to feel like I did something. They did that in some movie. Yeah, that's exactly what I did. In fact, I would say we are more advanced than their doors because our doors don't make that swishing sound.

But that swishing sound is cool now. We oiled our doors. Like Don who called about warp drives. I guarantee you he likes that swishing sound. They like that. And there's more on our website. Yeah. In fact, for the complete interview between me and Lawrence Krauss, the author of The Physics of Star Trek, you go to the Star Trek Radio website, startrekradio.net, where you can even send us emails if you'd like. But there wasn't just the sliding doors. No, there were other cool things that came out of Star Trek.

Oh, yes. Uhura had that cool earpiece that stuck out of her ear. We got that. The Bluetooth. We got Bluetooth. People walking down the street otherwise looking like they're talking to themselves. They're actually connected

into the airwaves. I really don't like Bluetooth because I live in New York City and it's already hard to differentiate the freak show that takes place here. And now you see these people talking to themselves. And I can't tell you how many times I've been giving people the widest berth on the sidewalk. Like, what are you doing?

And then you see the little blue and you're like, oh. There it goes. And not only that, they've had the communicators, right? And these are flip things that made a little sound. We have, that's where cell phones. You're such a Trekkie right now. I was just going to say communicator. You mean a cell phone.

It's turning me on just thinking about it. Our cell phones, the flip cell phones. And ironically enough, the flip cell phones, the communicators come with a T-shirt that say, I'm a 40-year-old virgin. I've never had sex with a lady. So I'm willing to wager that if Star Trek did not have flip open communicators, that our modern-day cell phones would have never done that.

I feel that in my bones. You know what, I kind of believe that too. Because that's what I'm saying when I was asking about scientists being influenced by stuff as a kid. And you know that whoever did that was like, wouldn't it be really cool if it was like just like it was when Kirk got to open it on

planet Nebulu or whatever the heck it was. Now someone's going to call in. There was no Nebulu. She's an idiot. tyson all right so other things like remote location tracking they would oh i love that well they would find each other wherever they were on the planet we do that now without gps and now we have the cell phones that have the stalking boyfriend cell phones that i love oh is that what you how you think of that technology that's what it is where your boyfriend can say like um i'm on my way home, or I'm on planet Nebula. Are you really?

Because according to these coordinates, you're at O. Henry's pub, you lying idiot. So ours, I don't know how their technology worked, but ours, we beam it off of GPS satellites that have precise positioning of longitude and latitude and time on Earth. And you receive that signal and send a signal. We know exactly where you are.

So all that stuff we see on CSI now, too. A lot of that comes from Star Trek ideas. Well, when they're like... Because on all those crime shows, they're constantly finding people because they're like, according to the satellite tower, the phone call was made at this time. Yes. Okay. Well, that would just be the cell phone towers.

Not satellite towers. Oh, I'm sorry. Cell phone tower. I'm trying to tell you how it goes. Also, my favorite of all was the tricorder. It's Sunday afternoon at like 2 o'clock. I just woke up an hour ago. My favorite is the medical tricorder.

That's my favorite. They wave it over your body and they get to know all your ailments just in one. Oh, Dr. McCoy did that. Yes. Yes. I just love that. And we kind of have that today. Do we have it?

It's kind of the MRI, the machine we sort of slide you into. That's not the same thing. Yes, it is. We find out what's going on inside your body without cutting you open. No, on Star Trek, there was a little thing in his hand. Oh, come on, back me up, Trekkies. Call in. Okay, no, but the idea is the same.

In order to know what's going on inside of you without cutting you open yeah but you know what i'm fighting with you but the truth is everything starts big and gets small unfortunately but it is true isn't it because because remember we had betas and all those things now they're well the first computers were the sizes of rooms and now you carry them around in your pocket so who am i to say that we're not going to have pocket mris in the future? Sure. Oh, my God. Oh, my manager's the biggest hypochondriac.

I can't imagine him having a pocket MRI. Do it again. Check me. Check me. Cat scan me one more time. And I got to say, MRI stands for magnetic resonance imaging. And by the way- Great.

I'm so glad I knew that. I'll put that in my don't care bag. Thank you. It comes from a physics principle called nuclear magnetic resonance. Oh, that's interesting. It was discovered by a physicist who had no particular interest in medicine. So I submit to you that every medical device in a hospital that has an on-off switch is based on some physical principle discovered by a physicist in a lab somewhere. I submit to you.

Why? We can submit to each other. I would submit to you, and I'd like you to get back to me in a submission. Why did – I was going to say something so dirty. I'm so glad I edited it myself. She's a comedian, people. Why did – if he had no interest in it, why did he do it? No, he didn't have interest in medical applications.

It was a frontier of physics where if you blast nuclei with a very strong magnetic field, you can align the spin. It's called a spin. It's a quantum mechanical spin, but just call it spin. You can align the spin of the nucleus. Go ahead and say that with a totally straight face. And it can affect the direction of light that you pass across those atoms. That's very interesting. And in so doing, you can make a map, a three-dimensional map of what the light passed through.

And in this case, you do it with x-rays, for example. All right. What else do they use them for? Well, so you find out what's inside of things. In fact, now they do it to find out what's inside of mummies without having to open up mummies. It's a very wide application. Wait a minute.

We know what was inside of mummies. It was a person. Yes. But you want to know, is it male, female? What do the bones look like? How many teeth do they have left without it? Can't you tell by the bump on the way they wrap it? I don't know.

I mean, if it was male or female. That's why I always figured they could tell if it was male or female. It has a bump. I don't know. I'm not a mummy-ologist. They also had a tricorder, of course, that would, I think it was also called a tricorder,

where they can decide whether it's an oxygen-nitrogen atmosphere, whether there are life forms around that might attack them. Oh, can you detect, like, bacteria? Bacteria, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Can they make those for personal use? Oh, can you detect, like, bacteria? Bacteria, oh yeah, oh yeah. Can they make those for personal use? Because I could use one, like, in a hotel room. I want to

know what's going on. NASA has a version that can detect bacteria, like on the space station and things. Oh my God, wouldn't that be great to buy that? I don't know if it can, like, tell it if it's around the corner the way they could on Star Trek. I don't know. Who used that all the time on Star the corner the way they could on Star Trek. I don't know. Who used that all the time on Star Trek?

Let me remind people what they're listening to. You are listening to Star Talk. Today our subject is Star Trek. And I'm your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson, astrophysicist. And I'm with my co-host, comedian Lynn Komplitz. Hello. Yes. Yes.

Did you know, Lynn, also, that I think while their communicators on Star Trek worked under any conditions, unless there was some force field preventing it, our cell phones, which use microwave technology, have a hard time working through water. What do you mean? Well, because microwaves are absorbed by water. That's how microwave ovens work, actually. Oh, I thought you meant... Oh, I was really going to make myself look stupid. No, no.

So with – Ooh, lots of self-editing today. Right. So if a thunderstorm comes over while you're using your cell phone, it will greatly interfere with your reception. Because the cell phone signal, which is microwaves, is trying to get through the cloud, which is laden with water. And most of that gets absorbed and interfered with. Is there a way to use another kind of energy? Because there's lots of different energies, right?

Not just electromagnetic. Exactly. Long wavelength radio waves could get through a rain cloud. But then you would need a receiver that was much bigger than the cell phones we use. I think your smart's rubbing off on me. You got your smart in my dummy. And I got my dummy in your smart. It's like a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup.

Oh, one more thing that I think is great is back then they had the phaser. The phaser. Normally it would be used to vaporize someone, but they could put it on stun. I think that was the first ever non-lethal weaponry ever shown. That's like the taser now. Like the taser, yes, yes. That definitely came from that. Yes.

Well, certainly the name of the product surely was derived from Star Trek phaser, surely. Absolutely. Oh, yeah, totally. But we don't have anything that can evaporate you phaser-like, do we? Not that you carry around your hip. We have things to evaporate you, but not that you would carry around in a holster. We do have things that can evaporate? Completely, of course.

Where is it? They're called hydrogen bombs. There's a lot. I don't mean to laugh. I'm just saying we have larger weapons that could vaporize but do we have like a pepper spray kind of thing i'm saying where you put on your utility belt the way that uh star trek people that would be non-lethal weapons i don't know that we have anything handheld in your pocket that could vaporize your like thank god because i live in new york city and that would be a horrible can you imagine

everybody would be nice to each other. You'd get vaporized for no reason. Now, it's not only stuff that we have today that we know was inspired by Star Trek. There are things that I think we have not yet come around that they showed and portrayed and was part of everyday life. And let's go back

to my interview with Lawrence Krauss to hear what he has to say about technology we're waiting for. Tell me about the transporter. Okay, the transporter is what seduced me to write the book, by the way, because like you, I'm sure I'm on planes a lot, and I really wanted to avoid, even before this long security lines, all the hassle. And I started to think, wow, how would you make a transporter?

All the neat physics you have to think about. But right away, I realized I would not make a transporter the way the star trek writers tell you because i have surfed the internet and i have seen the light namely i've uh i've downloaded some people surf the internet and see the dark exactly that's right well the point is in star again if you open the star trek techno manual from your back pocket you'll see that that they the way the transporter works is very simple they take you and they disintegrate you into individual atoms and a matter stream, and they move your atoms from one place to another, and they put it back together again. So it's actually moving matter, not energy.

That's right. Well, I mean, they try and convert it to energy, which is, by the way, a problem, because if you convert the average human being into energy, the energy equivalent of the average human being would be about 1,000, 100 megaton nuclear weapons explosions, which is not, as we like to say in New York City, environmentally friendly. But I'm a physicist, not an engineer, so I'm not going to worry about that so much. There you go. But that is a big problem with taking the matter or energy.

But information can travel at the speed of light very easily. And in the internet, we can do it. And so what I would do if I were going to make a transporter is I would scan you and take all the information that makes you up as a human being. And then reconstruct you at the other side. Yeah, but that's a problem, though, because I haven't transported you because you're still here. But that's simple. I vaporize you here, and then you're only over there.

So you'd kill me. Yeah. So there's only ever one of me. Yeah, that's the idea. Otherwise, you'd be cloning me. In fact, actually, I've pointed out if you could make transporters the way I say you could make transporters, although I also point out you can't ultimately do it, it would even be worse. If you think of all the ethical dilemmas regarding things like stem cells and other things nowadays, they pale in comparison. Because not only could I clone you, I could make a backup copy of you.

So if you got sick, I could just shoot you and call up the backup copy. And don't have to spend any money on health care. Exactly. The backup copy wouldn't have the memories the last few months, but it would be healthy. So these things'd be healthy. So these things would be fascinating. But unfortunately, as I point out, even that information transfer has a problem and I think will make the transporter impossible. It's a very fancy law of physics called the Heisenberg uncertainty principle.

There you go okay so yeah based on that little clip my question is is he saying he could trap you in a computer uh the information that is all that you are and your essence yes he can store that on a computer steal your soul if yeah mary krauss could steal your soul yeah that's that might have soul implications yes yes wow yeah and then he was talking about this was funny to me. So he asked the question, if you're in one spaceship, all the information content of you is beamed to another spaceship. Are they beaming also what you are calling your soul? Because if it's without your soul, then you're some other kind of person at that thing. But my body would die, right? Now they don't know what to do with your body.

With your leftover body on the other ship, because now there are two of you. Yes, that's part of the problem. Oh, wow. That's so wild. And then also Lawrence Krauss was saying something about, well, that's not my problem because I'm a physicist. That just made me laugh because I'm like, okay, well, how does an engineer and a physicist quickly, how do they work together? The physicist comes up with theories of the universe and tests them and finds out when they're true. And then the technologist, the engineer, invokes those theories for applications.

And they make stuff. They make devices. So the physicist is like, I think all this would be good in a cake. And then the engineer goes and bakes it. Or they bake a kind of cake that the physicist hadn't thought of that could be baked in the first place. You're listening to StarTalk. We're tweetable at StarTalk Radio. Tweet us.

We're tweetable at StarTalk Radio. Tweet us. We are also available to you with 20th century technology called the telephone, 1-877-5-STARTALK. We've got a call. I think we've got Michael from Newport Beach. Michael, what's your question for us? Hi, Michael. Hi. First of all, it's an honor to talk to you, Dr. Tyson.

I'm a big, big fan, and I've agreed with everything. What am I, a chopped liver? I'm getting tired of all these honors to talk to you, Dr. Tyson. I'm a big, big fan, and I've agreed with everything. What am I, a chopped liver? I'm getting tired of all these honors to talk to you, Dr. Tyson. They will learn that it's also an honor to talk to you. And we like your hooker, too. Right.

Go on, go on, Michael. I'm sorry. You've been very funny today and actually asked some good questions. Thank you, Michael. Anyway, but you managed to step on a pet peeve of mine today. I love pet peeves. Go for it. I don't remember the exact way you phrased it, and perhaps you phrased it in a way that wouldn't do this, but you said that biology is essentially, biology

is reducible to chemistry. And I will agree with you that chemistry and physics are fundamental to biology, but I disagree with the idea that it's reducible, because biology has in it a principle called evolution, which does not naturally fall out of chemical principles or physical principles that we know, that matter has the ability to reproduce and evolve and increase its complexity. It's not inconsistent with physics and chemistry, has the ability to reproduce and evolve and increase its complexity. It's not inconsistent with physics and chemistry, and indeed the process uses physics and chemistry,

but it is an emergent property that physics and chemistry does not capture in its theory, at least as far as it's developed today. Okay, Michael? Yeah. I agree. Okay, great. Well, we must agree on everything now. Yeah, no, so, I agree I'm glad you guys agree. I would like to know if either one of you know if my fat in my body could be teleported No, let me let me let me highlight the point that that that Michael's making my you make a very good point What you're saying is you cannot use the principles of...

But I can't date smart men because I can't understand it either. No, I'm going to reword what he said, and I think you'll agree with this. You can't use the principles of chemistry, even though biological processes are traceable to chemistry, you can't use the principles of chemistry to predict or to foretell the fact that biology has this thing called natural selection leading to evolution.

I totally disagree. You're both wrong. You're wrong. I don't even have to tell you why. I'm just telling you wrong. Like a Republican, I'm just going to scream, you're wrong, you're wrong. Michael, I agree. It's an emergent feature.

No, you're right. Thank you for that point. You are right. And my mom has a major crush on you, Dr. Tyson, too. Ooh, that's kind of kinky. Someone comes at my mom. Well, crush on you, Dr. Tyson, too. Ooh, that's kind of kinky. Someone comes at my mom. Well, do give her my regards. Okay, I will.

She broke her hip, but she'll be glad to hear that. She's got your best wishes. Okay. Thanks. Thanks for calling, Michael. She feels better. Thanks, Michael. All right.

She broke her hip, but she loves you. All right. You're listening to StarTalk. We're tweetable at StarTalk Radio. Also, 1-877-5-STARTALK. Our subject today is Star Trek. Even though they're college? Theme subject and all that relate to it.

That guy was smart. Yeah, yeah. No, he's good. And he's very careful and very pedagogical, I would say. Pedawada? Pedagogical. What does that mean Pedawada? Pedagogical. What does that mean, Neil? He has teaching instincts.

Oh, because I had Amber Alert written all over it. I didn't know what that meant. Pedawada. We've got Jack from Lancaster. Jack, is that you on the line? How are you doing? Hi, Jack. Hi.

I've got a question. Dr. Tyson, when's the next time you're going to be on the Colbert Report? Oh, well, thanks for tracking that. I've actually been on the Colbert Report five times. I think maybe the most, actually. I don't know if he's had some other folks since then. I'm actually scheduled to be on the Colbert Report again in the next few weeks. I'd forgotten the exact date, but it'll be listed on my website.

And based on what you just said, I'll make sure to put a note on StarTalkRadio.net as well. And also, I'll be on Jimmy Fallon this coming Wednesday, if you all stay awake that way. Excellent. Make sure you watch that, Jack. So was that your question? Did you not have some deep feeling about StarTalk? I mean,

about Star Trek? He's gone. Okay. So when? He wanted to know something about you. Well, okay. I'm happy for that. Let's gone. Okay. So when? He's gone, hasn't he? He wanted to know something about you. Well, okay. I'm happy for that. Let's take another break. You are listening to Star Talk, and we want to hear from you about your feelings, comments, opinions regarding Star Trek, its role in our society, whether you're dating a Trekkie, what you feel about this. I'm your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson. It's Lynn Coplitz joining me.

Star Talk. I'm your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson. It's Lynn Coplitz joining me. Star Talk. The future of space and the secrets of our planet revealed. This is Star Talk. Welcome back to Star Talk. I'm your host, astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson, joined by comedian Lynn Koplitz.

Lynn. I like this techno music we have playing. It's very kind of German techno. European gay house club music. You can tweet us at StarTalkRadio. Producer Ivan created that. I like that, Ivan. Tweet us at StarTalkRadio or call us at 1-877-5-STARTALK. Our subject today is Star Trek and all its cultural implications.

Let's talk more about the cool things that were on the spaceship. Well, there's one thing that was cool but we don't have yet. The holodeck that came in later shows. That was so cool. We have things like the holodeck now. Well, we have sort of virtual helmets where you go inside them and you pretend like you're in a sword fight or things. Right, but it's not a room.

It's your goggled and your helmeted. But eventually, will people be able to have a holodeck room like the way people have screening rooms now? I don't see why not. And if you plug it directly into your sort of neurosynapses, you could simulate feelings and emotions and love and hate. Oh, my goodness. That's a bad idea. You could totally get addicted to that, couldn't you? Well, if you're an addictable kind of person, I mean.

Oh, excuse me. I can go into a room where I'm like in an awesome comedy club and I'm killing every night and I'm getting paid a lot of money by the owner. I don't think I'm coming out. And could you kill somebody in there? I don't see why not, but they're not for real. It's not like the major – That's what I mean. You're not going to go to jail for it.

You want to kill somebody, you just go into the holodeck. Well, it's an interesting ethical issue because you know people have illegal thoughts all the time. You holo-kill. Yeah, holo-kill. So would a holodeck be a place where you would live out all of your sort of transgressive behaviors? I mean, who knows? I don't know. And would the government sanction it when things happen?

Like if you're looking at certain porn, they can catch you? Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. I mean, it's an interesting ethical issue. What kind of holodecks would be in our future? Oh, and then the Japanese would create holodeck clubs, like karaoke clubs, where you go there with people. Yeah, so all different kinds. The holodeck free program is ready.

So you could imagine you're captain of a ship or whatever. Is that what you would do, Neil? What would you be? What would you imagine? I don't know. I have this fantasy that I'm like I live out my life on a desert island somewhere with internet.

Just in solitude. Seriously? Yeah. You can do anything in a holodeck. You can have sex with Angelina Jolie and you go on a desert island and do a bad, what's his name, movie? Oh, oh. What's the guy's name? Where's with wilson the the boss yeah so no okay i'll think about it oh my gosh that's hilarious no

please please you want to go alone on a desert island with your computer so you know you know if they have they have tractor beams we don't have tractor beams today they had tractor beams back then wait well then they have something to do with cloaking devices? Well, okay. There were cloaking devices. I love that. Okay, cloaking means you make yourself invisible. And all it means is that the light you're using to see the object goes right through the object.

And the Klingons are somebody who used to use those. Klingons had cloaking devices, and the Federation did not. And when it was too late, then they would show up. They would show up right in your face and then fire upon you. They couldn't fire while they were cloaked. And they were in their beam. Well, no, so then if you want to tractor beam them, you tractor beam them, then they can't escape from you, even with their engines.

I do that with men. How, Lynn? No, my cloaking device. No lie. Because women have lots of cloaking devices. If you don't know this, guys, we're an illusion, most of us, especially as we get older. And I was dating this French guy.

I'm not kidding you. And he woke up in the morning, and I had my fake hair, my eyelashes, my boobie insert things, like my chicken cutlet fake silicone things. And he was like, there are pieces of you in the bathroom. And it was too late. I already had him in the tractor beam. I'm a Klingon sucker. So you use this to attract him in and then he's trapped.

Then he's trapped. It's too late. By the time he sees everything, he sees the real me laying on the floor. It's too late. I didn't know women had tractor beams. We do. Oh, Neil, there's so much you don't know

because you're on an island with your computer. All right. Now, also, the matter-antimatter was... Antimatter's real. We make it in particle accelerators all the time. But it's the favorite fuel of science fiction. It's the total annihilation of matter with total annihilation— They were talking about this on Nurse Jackie this week.

Really? Exactly what—that's a great show. Exactly what is antimatter? Antimatter is— Against matter. Well, okay. It is the quantum mechanical opposite of matter. So it's a proton.

The antimatter proton would have negative charge instead of positive charge, for example. And the antimatter electron would have a positive charge instead of a negative charge. And it's otherwise identical, the same mass, same other properties. And if you bring them together, they annihilate and they become pure energy. It's the most efficient conversion of energy we know. It is real. And it is continuously tapped for science fiction themes.

And the power generators for the Enterprise and the starships of the future all matter anti-matter drives. I think Paula Abdul said it best when she said opposites attract. That's what you're saying, right? Like if you take anti-matter takes one step forward and matter takes two steps. It would attract and then annihilate.

That's the difference. That's me. That's how I date. Attract, annihilate. But wait a second. Do we use this now? We use antimatter now? Yes, in particle accelerators. Do we make bombs with it? We're not good enough to do that yet. Good enough, dare I say.

Because if I have a blob of antimatter and I hand it to you, how am I going to hand it to you? In what suitcase? Because the suitcase is going to be made of matter and the matter will be touching the antimatter and it will annihilate. So you need like magnetic bottles to contain it. It's a very... And so, right. So matter-antimatter annihilation

is not something we have any control over. How do they even create that? How do you even find that? In a particle. You smash particles apart, and some of those byproducts are antimatter particles. That's interesting. It's completely there. That's kind of cool. So let me reset the show.

You're listening to StarTalk. StarTalk. I'm your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson. You can tweet us at StarTalkRadio, or call us if you're into 19th century, actually, barely 20th century devices by phone, 1-877-5-STARTALK. Tell us what you think about Star Trek and what effect it might have had on your life. Let's find out.

Star Trek has actually influenced culture in ways that I think we don't always appreciate. And in my interview with Lawrence Krauss, author of The Physics of Star Trek, he actually went there a bit. Let's find out. If you're going to push the edges, you have to push them in a way which doesn't violate known things, but doesn't create stuff that's so wacky that you basically immediately say, that's so crazy, I can't even get into the plot. In fact, I think it's important to realize, I once was on a program with a very distinguished science fiction writer, who said, you know, the science in good science fiction is really peripheral. It's the story that matters. And I think Star

Trek originally, of course, that's the other reason it caught on. It was these great sagas, and it was Wild West in the stars, as Gene Baudin wanted. And the science just gave you a new venue to make it more interesting, and it allowed them to do things that they never did. In fact, the first interracial kiss was on Star Trek. Lots of things they couldn't have done in the real world that they were able to do in this fake world. And at the same time, I think, get people thinking and yearning for going to the stars. And from my point of view, to the extent that one could channel that and seduce people, as I like to say, to use their fascination with what's possible out there

to think about the real universe, which I do maintain. And I say it at the end of Physics of Star Trek, is that in the 23rd century, I think the physics of the real universe will be far more interesting than anything the Star Trek writers have come up with. Well, there you go. Star Trek just in our culture, in and around us.

I mean, Star Trek, absolutely. No one can argue with the fact that it did push the envelope on everything on interracial things. Yeah, it had first interracial kiss, yes, and first interspecies love, you know. Well, I mean, that's what I like about Gene Roddenberry was that he kind of

took it and said, okay, not only do you have a problem with interracial stuff, would you have a problem with interspecies? The odd thing is, there's getting action all across the galaxy, but no one actually wrote in about that. Only when he and Uhuru kissed. That was their problem, right? That was their problem.

And even then, their urge to kiss was forced by some alien force field that made them kiss. Oh, yeah. I love that. Well, that was smart in Gene Roddenberry too. It was like, well, he had to kiss a black lady because the aliens made him. Kirk to crew. Is anyone aboard?

You know, what's interesting is there are people who have, there's a long history of very attractive women being portrayed in science fiction roles. I mean, Uhuru was no exception to that. Definitely.

She's in miniskirts. Yeah, and boots, knee-high boots. Without a doubt. Captain Kirk was no idiot. And Lynn, before the show, I heard you sort of pining about how you might like to sort of like marry Spock. Is this like what you're- No, I was making him play a game. It was a game.

Is this what you do in your spare time? First of all, I bring pop culture to Neil. What is it? Who would you marry? Bang or date? Just say it like it is. It's called marry, bang, or date. A lot of people play it. I didn't know you thought about Star Trek crew for this.

So why don't you tell me? I think of everyone. I mean, people do it all the time. Who would you marry, bang, or date? It's a game people play it. I didn't know you thought about Star Trek Who for this. Okay, so why don't you tell me? I think of everyone. I mean, people do it all the time. Who would you rather marry, bang, or date? It's a game people play. Okay, so? So with Star Trek, who would I marry, bang, or date? I would marry, I told you, I would marry Spock.

Okay, to keep you warm and dry. Go. No, and because Spock is logical and he would get things done, I would date Scotty because for obvious reasons, he's a Scottish, he's going to be drunk and fun. And I would bang Kirk. But I want him

to get tested first. And not just at a clinic. I want like NASA testing. Because he gets around. He gets like alien tail or tails. Lynn, you're out of control here. That means it's time to go, you're out of control here. That means it's time to go, I think, Lynn. Sorry.

On that note. You're listening to StarTalk Radio. I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson, your host. A show funded by the National Science Foundation. We'll see you again next week on StarTalk.