StarTalk Radio - Tuning in to Science on TV, with Mayim Bialik

Episode Date: September 30, 2016

Is science trending on TV and in pop culture? Could that encourage women to get into STEM? Find out from Neil Tyson and his guests Mayim Bialik, Summer Ash, Taryn O’Neill and co-host Chris Hardwick. Also with Mona Chalabi, Chuck Nice and Bill Nye. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to new episodes ad-free and a whole week early.

Welcome to the whole of the universe of the American Museum of Natural History right here in New York City. I'm your host of tonight's Star Talk, Neil deGrasse Tyson, your personal astrophysicist. And tonight we're featuring my interview with actress Mayim Bialik. She plays a neuroscientist on the hit TV show The Big Bang Theory. And she not only plays a neuroscientist, she is a neuroscientist. She got a PhD in the subject. So that will be the basis of our conversation on the portrayal of science on TV. So let's do this.

And I never do this alone. I can't do this alone. I got to bring in help. My co-host comedian tonight is Chris Hardwick. Hello. The one, the only. Yes, sir. And you don't only go by Chris Hardwick.

You go by the Nerdist. Nerdist, yeah. That was the website that I started and the podcast and everything. Well, thanks. You turned being a nerd into a community. You were early out of the box doing this. I mean, I don't know if I... I think a lot of proto-nerds would disagree with that.

I did... That's a thing. A proto-nerd. The proto-nerds. Not yet fully formed. No, I mean like the early days, like the old school nerds. I mean, it just... When I was growing up in the 80s, you know... Revenge of the nerds. Revenge of the nerds, exactly. I was in chess club and math club and computer

classes and I got my first computer in 1981. And so it was not a cool thing to do at the time. We were socially ostracized. Yeah. And so now it's kind of cool and science is for everyone and nerd stuff is for everyone. And so I just kind of helped try to be as inclusive as possible. And to create that community. Yeah.

He's feeling it. I am. He's feeling the love. And my special guest this evening, Summer Ash. Summer, you come to us from Columbia University. Yeah, not far away. Not far away. Subway ride. We can easily afford that. And you run the outreach program of the astronomy department there. By the way, that's the department where I got my PhD. But Summer, we have you on the show because you are also a big advocate

of STEM. I am. Science, technology, engineering, and math. And particularly women in STEM. Women in STEM as well. All right. You have a superhero's name. You know that, right? Summer Ash is like, that's like a comic book. You know what's going to happen? You're going to have some awesome lab accident and get superpowers. And you're going to go fight crime. And now I'm going to say I knew you when. I already have a bionic heart, actually. Are you serious? How did that happen?

I had heart surgery three and a half years ago. That's amazing. Wait, wait, but you have a glowing thing in the middle of your... You have an arc reactor like Tony Stark? Almost. That's awesome. I hope you're okay, by the way.

We're making jokes about this. I hope you're all, by the way. We're making jokes about this. I hope you're all right. I'm good. All right. So the two of you together will help me do this, right? Talk about the role of science on television. We've got my interview with Mayim Bialik. The Big Bang Theory, it's one of the most successful shows on television.

Began in 2007. successful shows on television. Began in 2007, and it's... I don't know if I can explain it before I show you a clip of who the characters are on this show. Let's check it out. Aren't you slicing that man's brain a little too thin? It's too thin if I were making a foot-long brain sandwich at Quiznos.

For examination under a two-photon microscope, it's fine. So what we have there is a set of sort of overachieving scientists, and it started out with guys in this role, and then they slowly introduced women over the years. The show is in its eighth or ninth season, going strong, and one of the characters we just saw introduced was Mayim Bialik. And I wanted to ask her about her early experience with science. I know already she became a scientist, but she's an actress. So as is often the case on StarTalk, I try to get to the bottom of how people became who they are and to see what role science may have played in it.

Let's check it out. It wasn't until I was later in high school that I had my first biology tutor who sort of gave me the confidence that I could be a scientist. I was not naturally good. So it's a tutor because you're acting. Correct. So I was on the show Blossom from the time I was. No, you were Blossom. I was Blossom. On the show Blossom.

You were Blossom. Yes. Make that clear. Correct. But once I met this woman who was my biology tutor, that was sort of my real kind of coming out party of believing that I could be a scientist. I didn't even have the skill set because I had been paying attention all the previous years in math and science,

but really just doing what I needed to to get by. I didn't really understand the beauty of science and math and that whole world until I was later into high school. And then obviously pursuing it in college was, you know, it was a party. So this saddens me. You know why?

Not your story. I've heard that before. No, that if that single person made a life difference to you, how many people are missing that single person who can make a life distance? I mean, I'm sure we could all run the stats on it. Many girls is the first answer. That's the first answer. And that's because, I mean, that's because of, you know, a historical difference in the representation of women in these fields.

And probably a cultural bias on the part of teachers and instructors and even administration. How much intellectual capital lay untapped in this world? Do you want a number? Yeah, come on. I want the numbers. Come on. I want numbers. Numbers. Give me numbers. Don't just say it. I don't have them. I think it's a... Wait, wait, wait. This is StarTalk. We don't leave you numberless when we can put numbers in the situation. You have the numbers? I have the power. I shouldn't have doubted you for a second. No, I don't have the power to give you the numbers.

I have the power to get someone to give you them. That's how that works. I have the power to listen to those numbers. So, Mona, can I get some numbers, please? All right. Hi, Neil. Everyone, this is Mona Chalabi. She's a data journalist.

Did you even know that thing existed? Mona, you got some numbers for us to bring some of this into Mona Chalabi. She's a data journalist. Did you even know that thing existed? Mona, you got some numbers for us to bring some of this into focus. I do. I wanted to try and answer Mayim's question as directly as possible. So I wanted to find out how many female scientists America is missing. And the number that I came to is 80,000. Missing, meaning they might have been scientists, but some force prevented that from happening.

Exactly. Okay. Exactly. Okay. Exactly. Okay. And I just took biologists, chemists, and a category called other natural scientists. And I worked out how many women you would need to just get to a 50-50 gender split. And that's when I got 80,000. So when you say 80,000, it's just 80,000 in those professions.

Exactly. You're leaving out engineering and physics and... Mathematics. Mathematics and all the rest of this. Yeah. Exactly. You're leaving out engineering and physics and mathematics and all the rest of this. Okay. But presumably, equal access, equal opportunity doesn't require equal outcome. So that missing number presumes that if everything were even, then everything would be even. Right. But we know that we don't have equal access, right? Mayim touched on it in the clip, and it's really, really relevant.

So I also looked at some of the cultural barriers that stop women from going into the sciences. Now, we know that statistically, women are less likely to be hired by science faculty. They're less likely to be asked to perform mathematical tasks. And they're less likely to have their academic papers deemed of high quality. And I know that last bit because of research by a female scientist called Emma Pearson.

Now, what Emma did was she looked at 938,301 academic scientific papers. And she found that the average male scientist publishes 45% more papers than the average female scientist. So you're saying we're messed up. That's what you're saying. Sorry, sorry. than the average female scientist. So you're saying we're messed up. That's what you're saying. Sorry. Sorry. How to be messed up in numbers. Numbers are showing how messed up you are. That's right.

Well, Mona, thank you. Thanks, Neil. Well, we summoned you from the dark. OK? Now we're going back to the dark. Mona Chalabi, thank you. Sort of thank you for the bad news. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Thank you. Yeah, yeah. Next time, bring some good news, please. So, Summer, is this consistent with your life experience? Yeah, absolutely. So what are some of the solutions? Is it creating mentoring programs, or is it taking active roles in your... Well, I can tell you this, Chris, that if we are all products in some way, even if only subliminally, of pop culture,

in some way, even if only subliminally, of pop culture, then it seems to me more visible people who have succeeded would matter to culture and to pop culture. So in television, we went for decades with no women portraying scientists, just as an example. Because can you be one if you don't see one? Right. You know, in fact, I remember growing up, it was clear that no one was thinking of me to be an Apollo astronaut. They just looked

really different from how I looked, what I remember. So I think that matters. I also think it could be interesting that, because before we're relying on the media, you're relying on big companies, big media companies run by older men a lot of the time who are just going, ah, put that on there. But now with social media, with YouTube, with Snapchat, with Facebook, I feel like is some of the onus on people who are already scientists to start becoming those role models in social media themselves rather than relying on big media to catch up? To choose what role model that anyone would have. Yeah.

Well, that's an interest. So the real people are becoming the real role models. The real people are becoming the real role models, and that's exactly what built YouTube culture. So Summer, can you point to individual people who served as your role model growing up, as did Maya? Oh, that's interesting. Well, so actually, I think I had many,

but I was kind of born excited about science. And within a month of each other, the movies Top Gun and Space Camp came out. And I pretty much saw both of them, and I was like, yes to all. Like, yes, yes. And if you think about it, in those movies, obviously Top Gun is male-dominated, but Kelly McGillis has a PhD in astrophysics. Yes, because every astrophysicist is an expert on an F-14 plane. I know, which is a little bit weird. That's a stretch. But who cares?

We didn't question. It was the 80s. They played volleyball. It's the first time I heard of that, so that helped. And then for Top Gun, you have, I'm not going to remember the actress's name, but the lead woman who's already a jet pilot and an astronaut candidate.

You mean in Space Camp? Yeah. Space Camp, yeah. Yeah, and then you have Lee Thompson and Kelly Preston, and they're both playing women that are interested in science, and the three of them are the main part of the movie. It's fantastic. Can I ask you guys a question? What can ordinary people do?

So as a guy who's not a scientist, what can I do to help? Do you have suggestions for how just ordinary people who are not scientists or educators can help uh you know help improve women help improve women in stem help improve people getting involved um well i think the one big thing is that call out barriers when you see them so if you see people that are expressing or sort of sexism or doubts about women's capability or people of color's capability to do these things. So it's an extra pair of eyes out there to monitor the perimeter. Yeah, exactly. Teach your bros. Yeah. So what I continue to do with Mayim is explore how is it she became an actress? Because I know she got a PhD in neuroscience,

but she actually started as an actress and was well-known at age 14. Yeah, most child stars don't even complete a traditional education program, much less go on to get a PhD. Right, right. So I said, why? You could have just kept going.

But she didn't. She stepped out and then stepped back in. I had to get to the bottom of that. Let's check it out. I come from an immigrant background. My grandparents were immigrants to this country, and college was emphasized over everything else, no matter what.

So it was, you know, it was, I mean, on my mom's side, my grandmother, I don't think she finished middle school. My grandfather didn't finish middle school. So they came to America and they worked in sweatshops. So I was raised with a go-to-college mentality, even if you think you're a big shot because you were on TV. So you had the expectations of generations of your ancestors requiring that you go to college. Because the American dream is staring you right in the face.

You know, they left war for this. So I guess the notion of being a child actor didn't feel like I was satisfying, honestly, the historical and cultural dream of thousands of years of exile. Whereas going to college and, you know, pursuing something that was very challenging academically, that felt like it was going to be more satisfying as a human being, you know, than being a famous person. Well, so I looked up the title of her Ph.D. dissertation.

What was it? dissertation. What was it? The hypothalamic regulation in relation to maladaptive, obsessive-compulsive, affiliative, and satiety behaviors in Praden-Willi syndrome. I wrote a very similar paper job on Talking Dead. A lot of syndromes going on in Talking Dead. Surely one of them was that. One of them, yeah. We're just trying to solve the zombie crisis. So this is a genetic disorder. It turns out that there's a chromosomal deletion in the person where you can literally eat yourself to death. There's nothing to regulate your appetite.

You just keep eating until you die, and there's no cure. And so she studied this. So neurologically, you can ask, can you overcome that? Can you fix it? Can you repair it genetically later on? It's an unresolved frontier. And so she was in it. Now, she went to UCLA.

I went to UCLA, too. And you went to UCLA. Yeah. I was on a different side of campus than she was. I was on the philosophy quad. So I hear rumored that you roomed with Will Wheaton? Will Wheaton, yeah. We've been friends since college.

Will and I have been friends since college. Cool. And he was the child actor in... He was in Stand By Me. In Stand By Me. He was an instant crusher. He always saved the Enterprise whenever there was eminent danger. When it was time for a kid to do the thing. Yeah, exactly. It was time for a kid. He was also Stand By Me. In Stand By Me. He was an instant crusher. He always saved the Enterprise whenever there was eminent danger. When it was time for a kid to do the thing.

Yeah, exactly. It was time for a kid. He was also a child actor. He was a child actor. Yeah, and he's actually cameoed many times on The Big Bang Theory. And he's a brilliant man and a wonderful human being. Yeah, so. I went to school with a child actor, too.

Who's that? Fred Savage was in my year. What? Fred's awesome. But I just want to point out that Fred does not have a PhD in science, but Danica McKellar, Danica McKellar does. Is a mathematician. And she's the only out of over a hundred female people, female actresses, but who is also a scientist to guest star on Big Bang Theory. So we need to fix that, because one out of a hundred? Not good enough. Well,

more on the fusion of science and pop culture through the lens of television when StarTalk continues. Welcome back to StarTalk. We are featuring my interview with actress Mayim Bialik. She is the neuroscientist on the hit TV series, The Big Bang Theory. And I asked her about the portrayal of women scientists. Is it good? Is it bad? Is it working?

Let's check it out. But we did an episode where Bernadette poses for a sexy scientist photo shoot. And Amy has a very big problem with this. I remember that episode. And it's something that I'm asked about a lot because I do advocacy for STEM and young women. And I'm often asked, you know, what do you think about the, you know, the white starch shirt open with the black bra and the glasses down and the red lips? And, you know, and to me, I don't knock women or scientists who want to do that. For me, that's not the way that I choose to portray women in science. You know, I don't think we need to take our clothes off, you know,

to show that women in science can also take their clothes off. But I think, you know, part of the advocacy that I try and do is to put a fresh face, you know, a positive face, a positive face and a female face on these subjects. I think that a lot of also what's missing from trying to engage young women is not just the sex factor or the attractiveness factor which I do agree might be more important

in this day and age than it might have been 10 or 20 or 50 years ago but I think also that a lot of women don't know the kinds of careers that are available to them. And people picture themselves, or at least I did, I don't want to be alone in a lab for the rest of my life. I don't want to be in a nerdy lab coat and ugly glasses for the rest of my life. And that's what, when I was in elementary school and junior high, that's what I thought it was. But when I got older and I understood, oh, marine biology is actually being a scientist, working in the field, working with animals, working in the environment.

All those things are also science. If you like engineering and you want to do coding, knock yourself out. But there are many careers that involve a lot of creativity and a lot of being out and about. And that's, I think, what we need to try and communicate to girls as young as possible. So the Bernadette character that she refers to is one of the other scientists on the show. This is the assembly of women that the show accreted over the years, having been male dominated in its first few seasons.

I'm just curious, Summer, were you able to resonate with those sentiments at all? Well, I think the problem is that too often women in science are stereotyped at those extremes. Women get stereotyped at those extremes. Or women get stereotyped at those extremes. And so you have like the nerdy ones and then you have like the girly, girly ones. But there's an entire spectrum in between. You're missing the entire middle. And science is a human endeavor.

People do science. And people come in all shapes, sizes, genders, races, identities. And so I think the important thing is to allow scientists to be portrayed as all those different things. One of the other characters, her name is Penny, she's an attractive woman who lives across the hall, who is not a scientist. Well, when she heard that Bernadette was going to be in a magazine,

Sexy Women in Science, I've got the quote from the show. Maybe if fashion magazines had female scientists in them, I would have become a theoretical physicist. And I was struck by it. I'd never heard it quite put that way. And I'm wondering, is that sentence embraced or rejected as a means of possibly attracting women into science?

Well, I think all avenues for attracting women into science should be taken. But you know there's certainly people who would object to that. Absolutely. But there would be people that would object to the fact that there's also this part of the culture that says that you shouldn't dress sexy or you shouldn't care about fashion or you can't be both that and a scientist. And you can. And so I just feel like it needs to be communicated to girls that they can be anything they want and a scientist so

they can care about whatever they want and do science so there's a way to analyze films and how women are portrayed do you know about the Bechdel test yes I'm filmed yes it's a fascinating if I if I if I can recite it accurately it's if a film has at least two women in it who speak to one another about a subject that has nothing to do with a man. There's one more. It passes the Bechdel test. They have to be named. Named.

So you can't just have two people at the start of a film. On a street corner. Exactly. And then go to your main story. Speaking to one another on a subject that has nothing to do with men. Correct. It is astonishing how many films fail that test. Yeah, it's tragic.

It's a famous film. When you start noticing it, you start feeling sad. Because every movie you're like, not this one too. I know, that was my favorite movie. Come on. Because it turns out a lot of movies that do have a lot of women characters, but then they're not talking to each other. They're only ever talking to men.

So, Summer, you do science, and Mayim is both a scientist and an actress, plays one on TV. And then there's Taryn O'Neill. So she's an actress who's not a scientist, but she's on a mission to share science with women. And we have her standing by live on video call. I think we, do we have her on already? Is Taryn there? Taryn, hello! Hi!

So, you're a science fiction actor, writer, producer, so you know explicitly, because you're in the business, how potent such roles can be as an influence on society. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think that if you can show different characteristics of women on the space station, on a boat, where they're a marine biologist, where they are at CERN, the Large Hadron Collider, because they're particle physicists. Where they don't have to be in the lab, they can be in the Amazon because they're an entomologist. I think the more narratives we can create around a female scientist, especially in media, will really encourage young girls to, and boys too, that science isn't in this little box. It's not in this ivory tower.

It's everywhere because science is life. That's a StarTalk motto right there. How did you get interested in science at all? I produced a sci-fi web series, which inspired me to start writing my own sci-fi. And I went down the rabbit hole. I wanted to make my fiction as theoretically feasible as possible. And I basically came out this science convert where I fell in love with the laws of nature that govern our existence. And I want to know everything.

I fell in love with the laws of nature that govern our existence. That is the quote of the show. Taryn, thanks for being on StarTalk. Oh, thank you for having me. Excellent, thank you. All right. Next on StarTalk. Oh, thank you for having me. Thank you. All right. Next on StarTalk, our man Chuck Nice hits the streets,

and he asks random passersby what they know about women in science. StarTalk continues. Welcome back to StarTalk. For this show, we've been talking about how women in science are portrayed. And part of how we came to understand that is going to Chuck Nice, one of our men about town, talking to the man in the street. Let's check it out. That's right, Neal. Here on the streets of New York City, talking to men and women about women in science.

Come on, come on. Come on. Name a famous female scientist from any point in history. Marie Curie. Okay. Name two more. Oh, Jesus. Can anybody name a female scientist?

Anybody. Female scientist. Name one. Oh, Jesus. Can anybody name a female scientist? Anybody. Female scientist. Name one. Oh, my God. Who's that lady who made the, like... Marie Curie. Very good. Female scientist. Not at all.

Blank. Zippo. Zilch. How can we get more girls into science? I think we just need to make it more accessible. Like, right now, everyone just kind of assumes it's a boy's job. I think a lot of times girls are told that they have to abide by some kind of rule where they have to be girly and they have to be into fashion and things like that.

Girls shouldn't feel boyish for wanting to play with the chemistry set when they're little. Or blow things up. Exactly. Right. It's totally female to blow things up exactly ask my wife Well, you have to make him more attractive. I would say girls in science Women are often judged by their looks even though it has nothing to do with their ability. Mm-hmm. So let's turn that around

name the sexiest male scientist I'll give you a hint. His name starts with Neil. Neil deGrasse Tyson? Oh, did you say Neil deGrasse Tyson? Oh, Neil deGrasse Tyson. That's right. That's right. Yeah, he's pretty cool.

Is he sexy? For sure. Yes. Say hi, Neil. Hi, Neil. So we learned two things. One, everyone knows Madame Curie and nothing else. Two, apparently, Neil, you are very sexy.

It was very, it was between you and Neil's bore. It was very close. Very close. So we're featuring my interview with Mayim Bialik, and I asked her how much of her background as a scientist informed her portrayal of a scientist. That's a natural question to ask. If you're a really, really great actor, maybe you don't even need to have that background. But she has that background.

So let's see where that took her. Check it out. I actually based my character on, I will not name her, a specific professor in my life. So there actually is a person with elements of Amy. Wait, but does that person know that you based her character on Amy? No. I mean, she may watch it and say, oh, look, that's me. No, I don't think so. But because when I was asked to be on the show, or when I was asked to audition for the show,

I was asked to do an impression of Jim Parsons. That's literally what they wanted. But there are aspects of, you know, my meticulousness or female professors that I've had in particular. There's some male professor energy in her too. You know, there are people that I've known in my life that do remind me of Amy, but all the other shows that I grew up with was about attractive people and who had sex with who on which week. I mean, that's literally, and I tuned in every week to see which attractive person's gonna couple

with that attractive person. And our show's about the people who watch those shows. You know? Well, The Big Bang Theory, in its any premiere episode, garners 20 million views. Not views. Viewers. It's not a YouTube clip. It's like the show, when it premieres, was it Thursday night?

20 million viewers. It's huge. Those audiences are not that big anymore. It used to be very common in television. It's not anymore. That's an insane number. So to even get that in modern times. Yeah, to get very common in television. It's not anymore. That's an insane number. So to even get that in modern times. To get that today is crazy.

And so would you say that now more than ever, science is reaching the public, especially through comedic means? And you are a participant on that landscape. Yes, I would. Now more than ever, science is reaching people through comedic means, and I am a participant in that landscape. Thank you. He did say it.

Let the record show he would say that and did say that. Objection. But the internet has really given people a community. Because when you're growing up in your town, I grew up in the South. There were like three other people in my school who were into the stuff that I was into. And that's what's so great about Comic-Con and having it be such a pervasive part of our culture is that these giant safe zones have spilled out. And now, when I was growing up, it used to be an insult to tell someone they were a nerd.

And now the big insult is, you're a fake nerd. You're like, no, I'm not. I'm totally a nerd. Here's my badge. Yeah, seriously. Now that's the insult. It's calling someone a nerd. Okay, so we need to settle this now.

Geek or nerd? I tend to be more geek-leaning. I always thought, you know, there's a lot of... You've got to say nerd because that's the name of your freaking company. It is. It is. So, that's the bias that we're about.

I think ultimately, colloquially, we're saying the same thing. I think the word nerd, I think, is Seussian in origin, and the word geek is a German word, geck, which was like a circus freak that would bite the heads off snakes and chickens. And so some people say that geeks are more pop culture obsessed, and some people say that nerds are more actually like engineer types. I think we're ultimately saying, we're all saying the same thing we i don't think what i don't think what people like makes them a nerd i think it's the way we process information i think a nerd will try to understand something more than any other living creature and then try to use that

information against them so and that's becoming entertainment for others who are not absolutely i would so much rather be punched by a jock than endure the psychological warfare of a nerd. Like, jocks online just tell me I suck, and that's fine, but when a nerd doesn't like something I do, I get, like, a nine-page dissertation with footnotes and an annotated bibliography of why I suck, and I got to go, yeah, I do.

Several automated Twitter posts. Several, yeah, absolutely, yeah. You don't want to piss off a nerd. That's the lesson of this segment. So coming up, we're going to have some fun with science memes, and we're going to find out that success takes work. Woo! Welcome back to StarTalk.

Tonight we're talking about the geekiness and the success of the Big Bang Theory TV sitcom. And it shows that being a nerd, being a geek is cool. Or can be cool. And I think you feed right into it. Your show on Comedy Central at midnight, this is like Geek Central. You'll show some image from the internet and get comedians to give a caption for it, or perhaps invent a new meme. So I've noticed that as my visibility grew, I got memed a few times. You're big in the meme-verse. The meme-a-verse. The meme-verse.

And not on purpose. I'm just, I don't know that, I had nothing to do with it. Why, what? So, yeah, so I'm flattered. What I like best about it is those memes were not even about me. They were using me as an excuse to celebrate science.

So we're getting back to my interview with Mayim Bialik from The Big Bang Theory, and I asked her about her path to becoming a scientist. an excuse to celebrate science. So we're getting back to my interview with Mayim Bialik from The Big Bang Theory, and I asked her about her path to becoming a scientist. Let's check it out. The notion that if you're not good at something from the get-go, that it's not for you, is actually not true. And when I was in school, and I was born in 1975, so from the time that I was from 1980 on, and for those 10 and 15 years of school, that was born in 1975. So from the time that I was, you know, from 1980 on and for those 10 and 15 years of school, that was what was assumed. Like, oh, you're not naturally good at math, better like English, you know. And I think now we're seeing such a shift in understanding

that everybody learns differently. And most people may learn one way, but there's a percentage of people in a classroom who may be terrific mathematicians and scientists, but they need to be taught in a different way. And I'm grateful that I had a one-on-one experience with a female role model, you know, when I was 15, who helped me see that there is a way for me to understand things. But when I got to college, I mean, I went to UCLA. It's a school of A students, you know, and they have to set a curve. And I struggled a lot. I'd say a good 75% to 80% of people in my classes, this came very naturally to. And I worked my butt off.

I did not have a social life. I got mononucleosis because I studied all the time. I rested very little. And I was pulling a C plus in organic chemistry and crying every night that I couldn't go to med school. So Chris, you have many hats, producer, actor, host, writer, all of this. And what are you best at that did not come natural to you? How about that? I mean, for me, everything, like my language was comedy when I was growing up. So anything that was presented in a comedic way.

And, you know, it really was portrayal in pop culture. When the movie Revenge of the Nerds came out, I wanted to be a tri-lamb. There was a movie called Real Genius. And it was the first time Val Kilmer played a character who was like a super cool, super genius. Oh, so he's a cool genius. Very cool genius. And so the whole movie was about basically using your mind in creative ways.

And there's a big message in the movie about the sort of the nexus of science and philosophy. It's like it can't be all science or all philosophy but both. And those had really big impacts on me and what I was interested in. I didn't get the philosophy part of that, but you were majoring in philosophy. I majored in philosophy, yeah. So therefore there's a philosophy component to it. Yeah, and Dungeons & Dragons was something that I played what I was interested in. I didn't get the philosophy part of that, but you were majoring in philosophy. I majored in philosophy, yeah. So therefore, there's a philosophy component. Yeah, and Dungeons & Dragons was something that I played when I was growing up, because it's basically the perfect crossroads of fantasy

and math, of statistics and probability. So, Summer, you do a lot of different things. You freelance, right? You're a blogger. And did I understand this correctly? You're like the... You're... Who's show? You're like the astrophysicist. I you're, whose show do you, you're like the astrophysicist. I'm the in-house astrophysicist for Rachel Maddow. For Rachel Maddow. Oh, that's

awesome. That's why she stopped calling me. I was on her show like a bunch of times. I didn't need you anymore. And then I said, well, she doesn't text, she doesn't write, and you got the gig. Oh my gosh. So we all have succeeded in various ways, and not all of them come naturally out of what an educational system tries to do with you. Sure. And I did a lot of research when I was trying to, when I was in my early thirties, I, you know, I straightened out my life. I got sober. I quit drinking. I started focusing on, you know, constructive ways for uses of my time and my kind of obsessive brain. And I studied success and I studied time management and I studied self-improvement.

And what I learned is that anyone that you see that you think, well, they've got it covered. They must've had a natural ability. You're really robbing them of how much work they put into making something look easy. Someone said something to me once that has resonated with me forever. And it's a boxing metaphor of all things, but they said, line, speed, beauty. You have to learn the line behind something. You get that down, then you can master speed and then you can make that beautiful. But you, but it takes so much work to get to that point. So I always tell people like, don't ever be discouraged if you don't get something right away, you will get it if you stick to it. There's no secret to that. It's just stick to it. Awesome. You know, every day, incremental change, and over time, it becomes formidable.

Summer. So there's a thing that is being talked about more and more, and I think it started in academia, but I think any profession experiences it, called imposter syndrome, which is basically the idea that everybody else knows exactly what they're doing except for you. So you think you're an imposter. Yeah, you think any second now they're all going to find out that I have no idea what I'm doing. I don't belong here. They're going to kick me out. And it happens to people, at least for scientists, it happens to people at all levels. Chairs of

departments. Can I tell you, we had Paul McCartney on our podcast. Paul McCartney on our podcast. And he said- What a deadbeat. Yes. And he said he only just recently got over imposter syndrome. And that's Paul McCartney. So no one... Therefore... Yeah, no one really knows any more than you do. Some people just focus a little more and apply and work.

But ultimately, you can achieve anything if you want to. Well, coming up on StarTalk, we'll answer your questions about scientists on TV when we return. Welcome back to StarTalk. We're talking about science as portrayed on television, and now it's time for the Cosmic Queries segment. And this is where I'm asked questions that we've summoned from our fan base on whatever topic is of the moment,

and these are questions on the portrayal of science on television. So I'll try to answer them, but if I can't, I got Summer's backup. You got my back here? I'm going to try. You're going to try. All right.

And Chris, I've not seen these questions. You have not seen these questions? By the way, you are always the... I I'm going to try. You're going to try. All right. And Chris, I've not seen these questions. You have not seen these questions? By the way, I always enjoy going to your Twitter feed after a movie with some science comes out and be like, all right, was this legit or not? Neil's going to set the record straight. All right. Here we go. Query one from Brian Lefkowitz in Staten Island, New York.

A local guy. Local guy. Do scientists ever hit as many buttons in real life as they do in a movie? A local guy. Local guy. Do scientists ever hit as many buttons in real life as they do in a movie? Can I tell you? Every time I visit NASA Mission Control, I ask, where's the red button?

I want to push it. It's just an urge. I don't know. But, yeah, there are a lot of buttons. I mean, if you go to a telescope and you're in the control room of the telescope, there are multiple monitors tracking every little aspect of what the telescope is doing, where it's pointing, what is the temperature of the doer that's the insulated container that contains the chip that's doing the detecting. So all of this, there are buttons, there are screens.

And so, yeah, it kind of feels good. Yes, we're pushing as many buttons. Not as many of them are red. All right. All right. This is from Jessica McLeod in Houston, Texas. Which actor would you want to portray you? Ooh. It's got to be Denzel.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. No, no. It depends on... Wait, wait, wait. It depends on if it's... Denzel, if it's like a drama,

but if I get superhero powers because it's a highly fictionalized version, then it's got to be Will Smith, of course. Right. Yeah. I met Will Smith for the first time. Oh, you did? Yeah, just at the U.S. premiere of Batman v. Superman. He showed up on the red carpet. That's awesome.

So, yeah, it was fun. We embraced, and it was cool. Was he a fan? Did he know who you were? I think he does, because he had filmed some, he'd done some films in New York, and his son, Jaden, who's not in school because he's an actor, he wanted to know if he'd come by and I'd teach him some physics. But the schedule... Some physics? Eh, just teach me a little physics.

The schedule didn't quite work out, but so we know each other. Excellent. Yeah, okay. From Akal Gandhi in Chandler, Arizona, is there any studied correlation between the nerdiness of a scientist and level of social awkwardness, i.e. Sheldon Cooper? Ooh. Okay, if you go to any Comic-Con,

everybody there is a nerd, and everybody knows how to socialize with one another. I think you have these problems come about when if the nerd tries to socialize with one another. I think you have these problems come about when if the nerd tries to socialize with the hip people and then there's the rejection factor that's there and they're not saying the right thing at the right time. But among nerds, there is no

wrong thing at the wrong time. Everything is good. Everything is worse because they know you're speaking your mind and your heart. I also think that people who are attracted to what would be classically thought of as the nerdly arts and sciences is, I think

you live more of an internal life. Because when young kids are popular, like right off the bat because they're like, I play sports and I'm attractive or whatever and all the kids just bring them things, they don't develop that kind of internal introspective monologue that I think that nerds.

So I think it's kind of, it contributes to both. I think nerds are naturally introspective because of the things that are interested in them. They're creative internally. They create worlds internally. That kind of creates a boundary between what some of the other kids are into. And then those other kids kind of ostracize. I got a better explanation. There are some professions that don't require you to be socialized at all, to be good at them. So while it may also have socialized

people, you can be successful even if you're not. Whereas there are other professions where you kind of have to be socialized at some fundamental level, otherwise you will never be received into their ranks. And so it's not so much that it attracts under-socialized people, it's that it does not reject them. Right. And then I also think some people who lead very internal lives when they're young just don't spend the time practicing socialization

in those ways. Summer, where are you on that? No, I was just going to say that I think nerds can be hip. That was the Val Kilmer character. They are now. Absolutely now. No, but I say that I think nerds can be hip. That was the Val Kilmer character in Real Genius. No, but I mean, I think a person can inhabit both qualities. And so also that I feel like I've heard of girls who are popular but really like the math and science but hide it. Because then they think that all their other popular friends

are going to group them. But Comic-Con is all about not having to hide it. No, exactly. I think that's the thing. We are what we are. And that's where I feel like we need to put more role models out there that say to people, like, yeah, you don't have to hide this stuff. This makes you powerful.

This is so empowering and it makes you so much more interesting. You can deprogram someone's computer if they can. Yeah, exactly. you powerful. This is so empowering and it makes you so much more interesting. You can deprogram someone's computer. Yeah, exactly. You can ruin their credit. Chris, you got a last question there for me? From Humberto Quiroga in Dallas, Texas. Dr. Tyson, would you rather have a celestial object named after you or a star on the Walk of Fame?

Ooh. Well, there's the real stars that are in the universe. And then there's whatever we call one another if you become famous. Yeah. But as an astrophysicist, I am partial to the celestial phenomenon and celestial objects. And, in fact, I do have a celestial object named after me. It's an asteroid called 13123 Tyson.

Aww. That's awesome. By the way, when it was announced that I'd get this honor, I was very honored. I'm deeply honored by it. I double-checked to make sure it wasn't headed towards Earth. You don't want to be that asteroid, right? You don't want to be destroyer of worlds?

That'd be amazing. And you don't want to be on the Walk of Fame either. No, I walk that along. It's dirty. The Hollywood Boulevard's dirty. Like, no one's going to pee on your asteroid. That's true.

So up next, my buddy Bill Nye the Science Guy is going to explain how science and television can join forces to change the world, next on StarTalk. Welcome back to StarTalk from the Rose Center for Earth and Space. We're wrapping up my interview with Mayim Bialik, real-life actress and real-life neuroscientist on the Big Bang Theory. Check it out. My fan base is very unusual in that I have Big Bang Theory fans, but I also have people who are science people and people who are religious people or people who are interested in current

events the way someone in the public eye, you know, would perceive them. Women's issues, things like that. So it's kind of like we're sort of exploring what is this fan base, you know? People who are followers of the Big Bang Theory aren't necessarily interested in hearing my perspective on women's issues, but some of them may be. And this is sort of where we're trying to help this grow. And if I can encourage something that you've already done a bit of, is bring your scientifically literate perspective to social issues that people think can only be solved in the absence of science when often science informs the conversation. Well, and I think it's important to point out also, no matter what you do with your life, the training you get as a scientist, the way you see

the world as a scientist, it literally is the prism with which you experience the rest of your life no matter what you do. And you don't have to be trained as a scientist in order to love science, but that kind of training and appreciation never leaves you. Summer, you must agree with that, for sure. Absolutely. Yeah, it's a lens. It's a lens of nature. You understand how

things work. And what it does for me is that every time I encounter something new, I have all these questions. And I want to know more things about it. That's because you're still a kid. Because scientists are just grown-up kids. Yeah. So, Chris, you were a nerd your whole life.

So that surely shapes your worldview and your lenses, right? I mean, do you agree? Yeah, I do. I just think it's always important to keep asking questions, but it's important to learn how to ask good questions. Oh, nice. So I think a lot of people... And not all questions are equal in spite of what some people want to believe. Well, I think... It's always important to keep asking questions, but it's important to learn how to ask good questions. Oh, nice. So I think a lot of people... And not all questions are equal in spite of what some people want to believe. Well, I think especially with self-talk, like with self-dialogue, you know...

That's a thing? What does that mean? It is a thing. Well, I think it's when people who are having a difficult time go, why do I always fail at everything? Then your brain will give you an answer and go, well, because you're dumb. But if you say, like, how can I learn from this experience? What can I do better? Who could I ask? If you're not afraid to ask good questions, your brain

will give you those answers as well. I just remember being in school, particularly high school, and every next subject that I took, which would have been new to me the first time I took biology, first time I took chemistry, it was like, hey, is that how that works? Is that what I saw? And so it was so enlight hey, is that how that works? Is that what I saw?

And so it was so enlightening. It was as though there was a fog that was sitting in front of me, and with every new thing I learned, the fog would get thinner and thinner, and ultimately it would dissipate entirely, laying bare the operations of nature. Absolutely. What did I just say? That was really a new meme. Let's hear what Bill Nye the Science Guy, my buddy, in this latest installment of Nye Times in the City,

what he has to say about inspiring future scientists through television. Check it out. Wow. It looks so real. Oh, wait. It is real. For a second, I thought I was a scientist watching TV.

But actually I'm a science educator on TV. I love science on TV. I grew up with Watch Mr. Wizard. Kids today have Bill Nye the Science Guy. It's the best. Seriously, what I love about science on television is we can take you places you wouldn't ordinarily go unless you have flame retardant coveralls or deep sea dive gear or a space suit.

We can take you to a volcano or the bottom of the ocean or outer space just like that. We can even take you to a park in New York City built on a railroad from the 1930s elevated over city streets. This is Highline Park. See television is inclusive. Anybody can watch it and explore the world and the cosmos. And as I often say, half of the humans are girls and women. So half of the scientists and engineers can be women.

And then we'd have twice as many brains to solve problems, make discoveries, and build things. We could change the world. Science on television is more popular than ever. We have the Big Bang Theory and StarTalk. Come on, people, turn it up loud. Bill Nye. So let's try to land this plane. Chris, do you have any sort of parting reflections

on just the role of getting people interested in the sciences? I think watching people be excited and interested in things is contagious. Make it empowering. Make people understand that you will make the shiny things, you know, for our culture. I don't know. What do you think? Yeah, Summer? I think my parting thoughts are that anyone can be a scientist and that if you know anybody, especially young women

and young people of color who want to be a scientist, ask them how you can help and support them in their endeavors and tell them that they can do anything they want. I'm feeling it. And you know what else I feel? The fact that as children, we all remember being curious about everything around us, turning over the rock, climbing a hill, digging through the soils. And really, that is all a scientist does as an adult. And somehow, sometime between that time of our

childhood and adulthood, that gets beaten out of us? Is it the educational system where they prioritize pouring information into your head rather than stimulating curiosity? I think it must be that. You know why? Because how many schools have you seen, been to, schoolyards, even your own schools that you attended, where at the end of the day, school's out! At the end of the the spring semester, school's out. At the end of the spring semester, school's out and everyone runs away from school as though it's something to escape, as though you were suffering under the burden of having to learn. And I think about this and I say, maybe school shouldn't be cramming information in your head, maybe school should be stimulating a curiosity for why you'd

want to learn in the first place. And when that happens, no one will want to leave school. No one will want to go on summer vacation because school is where it's happening. School is where the action is. And I think that will affect everyone, especially those who previously have been disenfranchised, thinking that academics and learning was something only for smart people when in fact academics and learning is something for anybody who is curious. You've been watching StarTalk on the National Geographic Network. I've been your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson. As always, I bid you to keep looking up!