Stavvy's World - #154 - Neal Brennan

Episode Date: November 10, 2025

Neal Brennan joins the pod to discuss being the youngest of 10 siblings, conduct some high level media analysis, offer hope to incels, swear off food and temptation, advocate for a futuristic monastic lifestyle, explain why actors doing pods is a snake-eating-its-tail situation, and much more. Neal and Stav help callers including a guy who almost hooked up with a C-list celebrity, and a woman who seeks to make quicker intellectual connections with the men she’s dating.See Neal Brennan live and follow him on social media:https://www.nealbrennan.com/https://twitter.com/nealbrennanhttps://instagram.com/nealbrennanhttps://www.facebook.com/nealbrennanofficial/   ☎️ Have a question for a regular episode? Call 904-800-STAV and leave a voicemail to get advice!🎟️ See Stavvy live on the Dreamboat Tour 🛥️💕!!! https://stavvy.biz/ for tickets‼️ Bonus episodes every week! Unlock exclusive, Patreon-only episodes at https://www.patreon.com/stavvysworld Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Opa! Welcome everybody to Stavi's World 904-800 stop. Call in, we'll solve your problems. We're coming at you live from the Manhattan Studios, our permanent base here in the old CBGBs. We took over the John Varvedo store that it's now in, and now it's Stavi Baby Studios. Do you have an issue with that when they like... I'm just philosophically or... I'm not, I'm like kind of anti-nostalgia. If it's like really historical, sure, cool.

Yeah. Like if it's, you know, over a hundred years old, save it. Do I have an issue with it? Like, I'm not saying it should be a, what's the right thing to do with this? If CBGB is no longer a viable business. Right, right, right, right. What's the landlord supposed to do? I own the building.

Yeah, yeah. And this, this club, which they didn't treat it great. Right, right, right. I don't know, yeah. I wonder what that place smelled like. You know what I mean? How much? I don't think the landlord did a lot of like upkeep.

No, no, no, no, no. It's like, what's supposed to happen? Okay, that's a great question. I think here's the issue there is once we, landlord is very interesting point there, because do I love the symbolism of something that's a cultural landmark being turned over to a brand that does anyone give a fuck about John Varver? Like it'd be one thing if it was like

Something useful that people go to I mean even a fucking Chipotle on some level It's like I completely agree People go in and out of that place It's gonna get you we're talking about And also a great very salty chip Yeah oh when they're an incredibly salty chip When you get the batch that's fresh

And this fuck and you get that translucent When you get the translucent chips Completely where this salt is stuck to it Go live on Instagram already Christ Almighty But here's the thing thing. That's a brand. Nobody gives John Vervanos. And it's like

stupid shoes and bullshit. And in fact, I would... He thought it was going to be the coolest. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I would venture to guess because here's the thing about those stores. A lot of the places in somewhere like New York like this is happening with the RRII in Soho, right? It's closing down. And part of that's because it's unionizing.

And so they're like, well, you're a union now. We can't afford it. Stores like that in high rent places like Lower Manhattan. they almost never make money. They are there as advertisers and show, for, for these brands. So basically, we live in a society where we value. So very cool people like you and me can make them a part of our lives.

Exactly, exactly, exactly. Where's the paparazzi photographed me getting a helmet at R-E-I. So I look, I mean, if you've never seen a guy look stupider than me with the largest bike helmet in a place. Literally, this is true? I bought my bike helmet at that R-E-I, yeah, yeah. And someone- No, no, no, I'm just saying, I'm just saying like, it's, So basically, there is no, there is no, like, as a business,

it might even lose more money than CBGBs, but the value is an advertising value. And so I do have a problem that we, because to me, there is inherent cultural value to keeping a shitty rock club that was famous. Like, I would have loved to do a show there. For a movement that no longer exists. Because it's basically like punk and new wave in the late 70s.

Sure, but it's like I think that it could, I think it's cool when you go to a place that has multiple lives, right? Like, you know, it would have been cool if it just kind of became a venue that like, like we're doing, you know, look what's kind of going on with these beautiful theaters. We're playing fucking places that were built for opera. Yeah. Do I belong there? Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like, but even like the fucking in, um, in Nashville. I guess it's, I know what you mean. I guess it's just certain places it's like, can't they. serve the what they served and then move on like can it just be like there's something about like the turnover in the same way that new wave was a response to what came before it can't a chipotle sure sure you're be the new way and my answer is no can't chipotle do to CBGB what punk and new wave did to fucking rock and roll yeah yeah

No. Although symbolically, the answer is, unfortunately, yes, where it's like... Yes. But I'm saying, like, I can defend it. People love Chipotle. I bet you there's people... Way more than fucking away. The fandom is like...

Than the people... Talking heads and Chipotle? Exactly. With one bullet? There's, unfortunately, people who would kill... You know, they'd be like, do I erase Chipotle or the Ramones from history? And a lot of people right now would have obviously pick Chipotle. But I would just say that that's a...

That is a problem. that brands have sort of taken a people think brands are their friends and you see how brands are tweeting and yeah yeah they're like you know just that kind of they're doing memes and shit yeah and I fucking hate and so yes I think ultimately it is bad and I think it we would be better off if um you know like they they they're charging a higher rent probably to this corporate you know store whatever but I think we'd be better off if there were certain places they were like cultural landmarks, whatever, that generate a value that is not dollars, that is like, it is cool that this is still here.

That's as simple as that. And is that making money? Probably not. But I bet you shit around there would make more money. You know what I mean? Like, I bet you it would just be a, it would keep sort of the character. And I think if, I mean, that's the problem with me. Like, it does feel like New York is shrinking culturally and that you do.

But I feel like if the government has. Or some... Yeah, I think the government... Has to, like, support it? Office of Culture. I mean, look at Europe where they have... You want the government in your arts, what you're saying? I 100% want the government of my arts.

Without... And that's... I'm no exaggeration because other foreign countries have offices of film that support... Right. Like filmmakers that are like, hey, it's really hard to get... Here, you make one cool indie movie and they make you make a fucking Spider-Man movie immediately. If you're a cool Belgium, you know, I mean, you know, Lantemus, I was just in his movie. It's like, they're...

There's probably, you get to me. If you're from Belgium, they make you, they let you make two more cool movies. Then you got to do a Marvel. Then you get to go to Mrs. Marvel. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. A lesser Thor or whatever. I guess that is Taika, Wittite, New Zealand, and then, like it. Yeah, he made two.

Although Ragnarok's awesome. The newer one sucked. Love and Thunder. I think I saw Ragnar Rock. Ragner Rock, I thought was actually good. I find the sort of like, they improv that. And it ends up being like three lines. I'm like, okay.

I also find it really disrespectful to screenwriters whenever they're like, you know, he improvved that line. It's like there's a person who improvved the whole script. Yeah, yeah. The problem is he's ugly. Yeah. But there's a fucking guy somewhere at a fucking coffee being.

Hemsworth is getting a much bigger laugh because he's a jacked beautiful man. Because we expect him to just like groan beauty noises. Yes, yes, yes. And he was, he's cogent enough to, like, have situational awareness. We're like, fucking, this guy's incredible. Whoa, this is, he's hilarious. I will, I actually do have a, a, like, point about why Ragnarok was funny.

And it is because the Thor's were very self-serious. They were like, they tried to make it sort of shape, the two preceding Thor's. Okay. The original Thor movie and the, I don't remember what the other one, the second one was. But there were no jokes in it. It was very dower. They tried to, because, you know, Marvel likes to do this thing where it's like, blank for idiots, right?

Where it's like, like, they were claiming Captain America, it's a Cold War espionage. Right. It's like, no, it's fucking not. It's fucking Captain America, right? And the same way, like, I liked the Joker movie, the first one, because it was taxi driver plus the king of comedy for idiots. And I love those things, and I'm stupid, right?

And so it was a good, I'll never see it again, but I had a good time at the movies. Yeah. And so they tried to do it as like a Shakespearean drama for idiots. And it was all like, you know, like, you know, they have Anthony Hopkins playing fucking Odin or whatever. And it's all like, they're all talking like this, you know, and it's supposed to be like that. And nobody gave a fuck about that. Yeah. Because idiots don't like Shakespeare.

No. You know? And so the third one, Taiko Waititi was like, why don't we use those two as the setup to a punch, and completely change the tone of this and make it the least funny Marvel shit that never went for that. He's right behind me, isn't he, bullshit that they would always do? We never tried that.

Why don't we actually make... And Taek-O-TD is funny. You know, what we do in the shadows was really funny. Why don't we take that sensibility to Thor? And I think it worked. I also, I've talked about this a lot on the podcast, in a very dark period of my life when I was housebound, would take mushrooms every, like, three weeks.

weeks and watched Thor Ragnarok. How many mushrooms? Oh, man. That was the time I didn't do the math right and I thought I took an eighth and I took a quarter the first time. That's 200, that's 2.5? That, an eighth is 3.5.

So a quarter would be seven. Seven grams of mushrooms. And so, oh yeah, brother. I did not know where I was. I experienced like, I thought I was existing in a two-dimensional plane for a while. I saw myself as like a little dot getting like eaten up by some fucking monster.

Were you scared or were you like accepting? I was really scared and it was exhilarating though. It was really scary. Did you have a feeling of exhilaration the whole time? It was, I'm not a roller coaster guy but it felt like what I, you know, it's felt like a roller coaster where you're like,

it's a thrill, but this I would never willingly sign up for this. Yeah. But I'm like, the fact that it was like, like if you told me right now, take seven grams of mushrooms, like no, I'm not fucking crazy. But it was an accident.

And also it was the kind of thing where I kept getting so much high. I was like well these are good mushrooms and then I just got to the point where I was so high I was like something's really wrong and it was only afterwards when I weighed the rest of it that I was like holy fuck did you when you finally kind of came to was there like a werewolf moment of like what have I done like was there like you could see what you'd done no because I literally I torn my the bottom of my foot I torn the planter fascia I think I saw a video about it or something you talked about it. It very famously happened at the Skanks

Fest basketball tournament at this point probably like seven years ago. I don't even remember when it was six years ago. It was a long time. Which by the way, very competitive tournament. Yeah. No, I've talked about it before. I couldn't hang with the athleticism of Ari Shafir and Steve Ranazizi. That was that pushed me to the brink. You know what it really was? I wanted to wear cool shoes I was that that probably looked cool I wore these ewing those like fucking big blocky ass shoes and I hadn't really worked out or exercised in that long and it fucked up and I went on a I remember I walked from uh care from midtown uh over the I mean it wasn't that long but I

walked from Midtown to Astoria like over the bridge um but it was the bridge makes it a level of humiliation yeah yeah yeah yeah and cinema the night before I was walking, I was talking to a girl and I was like, wow, this is fucking New York I'm, you know, me and this cool girl, I'm talking to this cool girl. I'm going to be in the Skanks Fest basketball

tournament tomorrow. My career's going great. Of course, you can forget. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My Ewing's that I, when the guy, when Ari sees them, it's going to be fucking lights out, bro. I'm going to come around the corner and when Ari's eyes are going to love.

up, and I'm going to earn his respect. Fucking game over. And so, anyway, I was actually, it was this really insane thing where it was an out-of-body experience because I could not move. I remember actually specifically, the way I got around the apartment, we lived to, you lived there at the time, didn't you? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

That was around the time I got fired from my job. That's right. So you were there a lot, actually. Oh, that's when we started playing Mario tennis all day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a great game. It's awesome. It's fucking awesome.

And so you were gone. Everyone actually was gone. And I had set myself up where I was like, ooh, I got my little snacks. I got a drink. Because I would take Eldis's fucking office roly chair and use it as a wheelchair essentially. And I was on the fucking couch.

And actually, we had a finicky audio AV system. And sometimes the sound wouldn't work. And I just couldn't. I was trapped where I was watching Thor Ragnar. rock no sound until I figured out I could plug in my headphones into the PlayStation controller and so I was just like holding a PlayStation controller with headphones in no way to get up and I and so I was trapped on this couch so there was no werewolf moment it all had to take place in my head I couldn't move and it actually

gave it this really psych it was even more psychedelic because it was not about my surroundings at all I'm in a shitty Ikea couch in Queens in the apartment I share with three other of my friends the three bedroom I share with three other people and it was just me versus my brain me and my brain versus mushrooms are you a different person because of it not honestly no I have there have been a mushroom trips where I do think it changed the course of my life because it made me think about certain things and it made me came to like decisions about like where I should live honestly who I should date like shit like that but this one was just fucking awesome.

It was just sick to be that fucking high. Like, it really comes down. I did a gram in February that busted my ass so bad, where I was like, I'm not coming back. Yeah, dude, don't get me wrong. If I did that amount right now, I would be fucking destroyed.

Like, I think there's just too much going on in my head. Like, I've also had mushroom trips where I was just not in the right headspace and it was atrocious. It wasn't like, people talk about bad trips, and it's not like I was hallucinating anything horrible. It was just that it brought out how bummed out I was. Oh, yeah.

I was trying to pretend I was having a good time. It's on vacation. It was a good time. I mean, but I was just, it was in the middle of a really stressful year. What would bummed out? What would it be like? What would it make you? I wanted you to answer the question of what was a bummed out mushroom trip feel like?

Or what does it make you realize? And then what did it tell you about who you should date? Okay, so the first, these are two different trips. The who I should date, I was in a, I was in a park in Seattle. That was, I was, I was having a great day. It was me and my, my best friend from college, shout out to Straight George. He's become a character in the, in the Stavro, in the Stavre baby, cinematic universe. He came on tour with us, so the listeners are familiar.

Me and Straight George went on what we call the hero's journey. Sure. Which is where you just leave your apartment. completely unprepared it's like you're almost like hey should we go out get a water bottle like should we go get some gum or something and then you're like somebody's like hero's journey and then you just have to go about the whole day with whatever's on you and so I don't have the minute someone says hero's journey you cannot grab you just decide it's not like there's no formalized way but someone who's like hero's journey yeah if you're like and we had just

taken mushrooms like so it was kind of i had just taken mushrooms I don't think he was I think George has been our chaperone on a lot of acid and mushroom trips yeah But I think he proposed the hero's journey. And this is our first one ever in Seattle years ago. And ever since then, I love going on a hero. Were you just like leave? I didn't have my phone. I literally left my phone in that apartment.

So we're going off his phone. And I don't even think he had that much battery. And I'm on mushrooms. And we're just walking along Seattle. We just would hopped on random public transit, wherever he took us. Were you doing stand-up at this point? I was. Yeah, I was doing shows.

And it was like on an off day. He was working in Seattle. Oh, got it, got it. And so it was kind of this thing where I was crashing with him. I was working laughs in the University District of Seattle. And anyway, so we're just, it was a really fun day where it's like, I'm getting fucked up. And in Seattle's, you know, it's beautiful.

It was like the summer, it's green, it's lush. We're riding bikes, we're doing, you know, we're just going all over, having a great time. And we went in this park, which I thought was like Central Park. I thought it was like giant. I've since been back, it's literally maybe like four by five city blocks So Ravina Park in Seattle, it's so small. Yeah.

But in that park, I just fucking sat down by, in my head, a babbling brook with a huge tree and a huge wise tree was like, why don't you date the girl you've been seeing? Like, what are you doing? Like, you clearly really have feelings for her. You're scared of commitment. Like, it was just all my issues laid bare that I think probably were bouncing around my subconscious were manifested in like a, like an, like an. ant from fucking Lord of the Rings. Like, it appeared to me like a talking tree. And it was just like, what are you doing, man?

And straight, George was there, but I'm ignoring him. And I'm like, and I'm not speaking verbally, but it felt in my head. Like, I had a full conversation with a wise old tree. So that, and they told me, like, date the girl you've been seeing. And then you dated her, and it was, it did work, but it was nice. It was nice. It was the closest I've ever had to, like, a real. I had just fucked things up too much before for us to ever really get on a nice pudding.

me through how's it how's the style we fuck up a relationship just just didn't you know we you're seeing somebody casually you don't I didn't think she wanted to to like be serious with me so I just treated it as like oh we hook up every once in a while and she was into me and I don't know I think it was probably the first time I was back when you get to New York I don't know if you had this experience when you first moved but the first couple years are horrific you're like you go back you go back you sort of like um you know regress in a lot of ways like uh and i had no self-confidence you know you get here you're like for me anyway i was like a big fish small pond then you get here not only do people not like not only is it like not welcoming but if you're

actually good the really good comics like you everyone else hates you because they're like fuck yeah another guy that's good at comedy yeah you know what i mean and i think i was getting a little bit Not to suck my own dick, but I do think I was getting some of that, you know, some of that treatment. At least, I'll tell you this much. Other fat guys whose schick was having a little ass dick, they were not happy to see me move to New York. You know what I mean? That corner, because that's a very heavily, it's like when there's, when like, if a really funny neurotic Jew moves here, it's like, fuck, another. Have you ever heard the thing that black dudes want to be the only black guy on a show?

No, that's hilarious. Like, I didn't know. And then I started hearing it. And I was like, of course. Dude, that, well, they let a black guy in here, opener that just crushes no matter what. House money, you're playing with house money. If you're the second black guy on show, you're like,

I don't want to do that. You can't be like, well, second black guy on the show. It doesn't have the same kick. And so I was just like, I had finally gotten out of that and I actually believed in myself again. And like enough to just date. And I was like, great. And I don't know.

And now in hindsight, I'm like, that's when you should have been in a relationship, when you believed in yourself, when you could actually give yourself to it. But at the time, my thinking was like, well, I have to fuck whores in New York. I can't settle down with this girl who I really like, who clearly likes me, who were aligned on so many things. God forbid I do something good for me, I'm finally mentally stable enough to act out in other ways. You know, like I've, and so it was fucking stupid, and I, you know. So that's the, so you find yourself, I'm not at self, I don't think I'm a self-sabotaged person within relationships.

Interesting. Which may tie into our bigger theme. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the, so that's, that's interesting that the tree told you to, like, date a specific girl. And that's, and maybe psychologically that's the thing where it's like, I'm a coward about making these decisions and I just manifested my own beliefs. in a symbol of ancient wisdom. Yes. You know, like, I don't want to take the risk.

I'm like, well, if I'm, it's not me who's wrong. Yeah. It's the tree who's wrong. You know what I mean? Like, yeah. I think, I never thought about it, but that's probably what happened here. But yeah, that's really what it was. It was, that's really what it was.

And then, wait, what was like, what was it like when you moved here? Because you, I moved here for school. Oh, NYU. NYU. NYU, yeah. For film school. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, what was the dream, the dream was just like, you wanted to be a director?

dream yeah i wanted to be like a like a spike lee it was like spike lee when i heard like spike lee scorsese what they all went to oliver stone all went to like one school it's like what and then like going to it and then i got in i was like this is fucking crazy yeah that's so because i i obviously wanted to go to n yu for the same kinds of reasons um and it actually pissed me off when i i was listening to I think Donald Glover on Marin and he talked about like because I just wanted to go because it was cool in New York or whatever.

Yeah. And then he talked about there was a comedy writing program there and when I was like that existed I was pissed to hear that even that even like the Harvard Lampoon was the big like when you're like wait a minute there's like.

Well that I never I'm never going to get in that either but like the existence of it you're like wait a minute so they're incredibly rich connected and then they all they all come together before. Don't get me started on the fucking lampoon. Before they can start working. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everything

is said. It's like even the Illuminati gets this. Yeah. They even get this bullshit. It's like I mean, I'm sure there's some. And you know what's started by William Randolph Hearst, the Harvey Lampone? Of course. Literally started by Citizen Kane. It's fucking crazy. The guy the Citizen Kane's based on start and it's

like a Masonic building. And no one's like it was Conan in it? Yeah, Conan was Conan's, maybe the, like, I know guys that are like. There's probably, but the percentage of who's actually funny. Joe's, like, actually like good, funny dudes. Like, I can't. But even Joe's, that motherfucker got, he was basically from the Lampoon to the S&L writing staff.

He went from Lampoon and they, he got a car straight to S&L. Yeah. It's like, even though he is funny, it's like, suck my dick getting to do that, you fucking piece of shit. You know, like, Conan and I will just. He was ugly back then, though. I will say that. That's fine. It's not even about that.

Not like he was ugly, he didn't know how to, he didn't know. So that's a wash. But okay, it doesn't help that at one point? Yeah. He was ugly. But anyway. He didn't know how to groom himself. He had a giant, disgusting beard. Oh, really?

Yeah. Interesting. He'd say he was 21, too. So he just looked awful. Yeah, yeah. He didn't lean into sort of like the, like, just looking like he was a Harvard plucked. Yeah. He was trying to be kind of countercultural.

But anyway. But it just never I just also And also it pissed me off Because I was already in school When I listened to that I think And I was like wait

Donald Glover's not Because I always thought You had to be rich And connected to do that shit And then Donald Glover was just like Not He was just a fucking I was like fuck

I could have tried I don't know if I would have gotten in But I could have tried to do that But there was no part of you That was like Because that she was probably expensive And you You had a very Irish

Yeah The fact of my I had to pay I think I paid $20% You have 400 siblings. I'm one of 400. I'm the youngest of 10.

Yeah. I mean, that's funny crazy. So they, but my dad, it, my dad was a lawyer, which, so he was like, not, like, but if you have 10 kids, yeah, it doesn't help. Like, lawyer with 10 kids is a fucking guy who works at a gas station. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? Like you, you've taken yourself out of the upper class.

So like, so, but eventually they, they were able to get rid of some, they would like just shed kid, like, we would move. they were so far I swear to God we moved and shed Joey Sheila they would move

and then they'd and they'd stay in they'd send a message yeah you're like look we we divvied them up you weren't around they we moved from

Philly to Chicago and Joey Sheila and Kevin stayed in Philly and we went Chicago and they were like Kevin was 17 or 18 like it was just the 70s and it like they there was no

and then we moved from he's the oldest or the no he's toward the so but he that's the cutoff is 17 they're like good enough for us you're an adult yeah wow they would give you they I remember them giving my brother and sister's like a calling car like an AT&T like if you

need to call me yeah here's you get we'll save you the quarter I mean I we'll save you the court that's what we'll do insanity so the fact that I got in and then they were like support and like they i only went for a year okay because i was going to school and like working the door at the boston comedy club yes yes yes and like louis i worked on louis's

short film when i was in college i'm in his first film wow wait which one the what's it the one caesar salad i yeah yeah i'm pumpkin i'm pumpkin oh hilarious yeah and i stabbed nick Apollo in the foot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like Louis, Marin, Sarah, Attell, Chappelle, Johnston, like, regular, like they were around. So I was like, I think these guys are better than film students. Yeah, yeah, I'd rather be around these people. Yeah, so I just started working the door.

You dropped out? Yeah. And you were just like, I'm going to live here? Yeah, I'm just going to be. And then your parents were like, nice. The last one can figure it out. They didn't really pressure. They were like, all right, figure it out.

Like, they were. I mean, being the youngest of 10. I think at a certain point I can't imagine how much they didn't give a fuck by the time you were around There wasn't a ton of oversight The youngest of 10 Yeah no when I hear it

Because when you hear about the youngest of three It's like yeah They barely cared about me But 10? Yeah it was real How much older is your older siblings 16 years older than me Yeah so

And that's not even that that's as close As it possibly could be basically She was in she was in labor with me I'm not kidding 45 minutes it sounds like a joke but apparently she said like this is coming out quick

yeah yeah you fucking crawl down it wasn't even like yeah yeah the uh so so yeah then I just then I was like in comedy but you're right about like feeling you it's you're such a fucking loser that's what I tell anyone

in terms of like what do you want to do are you prepared to be a loser yeah for five 10 years totally totally totally Yeah, I mean, I'm happy that it was only, like, the really, really depressing period was only, like, three years, really. Yeah. But, I mean, the first two were fucking atrocious. But also for you, that's kind of nice.

You're young. That's the time you've got to be a piece of a shit. Yeah, yeah. But I didn't, I wasn't really being a piece of shit because I didn't have any means to be a piece of shit. Like, I had no money. I know. I know where, I had no gain. Of course.

So you're, that first year, you're probably living in dorms. What was the living situation once you drop out and you're like, I'm going to pursue. I was living, I was subletting the guy Jay Moore hit his apartment. Tony Woods was my roommate at one point. Oh, I love Tony Woods, dude. Come on. Tony was my roommate. A goobie's opening for Tony Woods.

And he did not care for me. Yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure he cares for me anymore either. But yeah, Tony was my roommate and then and then me and Jay lived together for a while. And then I then I moved to L.A. and that's all yeah but like but it was there was no just law you look back and you're like no you're just lost you have no especially then there was no like there was you could make it you like get on comedy central of course yeah yeah like host short attention

span theater or something but yeah there was no I and I also didn't know what I was gonna I was like gonna be a writer vaguely and then I started writing for like when I got to LA I started writing for shit I would give people tags here and then I moved to LA and Yeah, that's sort of like the You're sort of like a freelance intern Is being around and being like tags, tags Yeah Think of me if you have a fucking writing job or something like that

Yeah, and then you, but it's not a bad Like Ed Solomon who wrote Bill and Ted's did that At the Comedy Store, there's a few guys that did at the Comedy Store Like in L.A. Totally. And then got, you could sort of Yeah, I think some of the best advice is just like legitimately, I mean, it's some of sucks, but it's like work, basically work for free, show your value to people.

Because I definitely did that thing, too, where it was like, I would, whoever I was opening for, I mean, not that they really gave a fuck. They had their own shit going, but I was like, I would work hard. I would watch and I would like try and get, I would try and like be like, oh, here's what I think about this. Yeah. There's some tag. Here's some ideas there, that kind of thing.

Yeah, just be of some valuable. Be valuable. Value. If it's not, it's not going to serve you like now. Yeah. And people don't really like it when you give them tags. Yeah. no totally but like that's actually very high risk yeah they can be kind of high risk yeah

if they're good like then they're like fine then it's a different kind of resentment totally totally totally so yeah so I had no but looking back it to like I I I didn't have any relationships to fuck up mm-hmm yeah you're just a fucking free age was that do you think there is something psychologically there about the no oversight of being like the fucking youngest of 10 because it's like what do that even do to do you your do you even form attachments i feel like you were probably raised by committee almost where it was like you probably didn't get that much face time with your parents was playing older siblings my brothers ended up being like pseudo fathers right like Kevin being like so i'd come to comic shows in

new york in high school okay okay and then i'm brother who in chicago who worked like at rigley field and the chicago stadium so i would go to bowls and cubs games like so that shit was fucking awesome yeah but in i think it you know what i think it made it like you can do shit you like can be there's like you go to a comedy club and it's just like yeah there's just a staff and like it's pretty open if you just apply kind of yeah yeah it wasn't that impossible yeah that's interesting but then the next level was impossible like movies right or like tv shows people used to wear in la people would wear production jackets yeah yeah yeah yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah.

From the TV show they're on? I think they still do that. Oh, not as much. Dude, they used to do it like street gangs. Yeah. Like the, if you saw a guy in a mad about you jacket? Yeah, yeah, fuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And Chris Rock had a Beverly Hills cop two jacket. And I still won't, I couldn't believe. Yeah. Like, how did you get near Beverly Hills. cop how did that fucking happen like how that shit was impossible yeah so

so it was like a completely different landscape it was back when there was like actual showbiz instead of now when it's all disintegrating in front of us yeah I mean I wonder if stand-up also was just like such a I don't know because a lot of shit did feel impossible to me like almost everything felt impossible

and the only thing that didn't I guess was stand-up but like local stand-up I don't know I really put that on a pedestal in a way that I don't know I was just very nervous about for years and then it just you realize like oh this is the lowest form of show business entertainment right but I think that's all different now yeah I think there every other form of show business is like lowered itself is it's over yeah it's like actors now yeah they have podcasts that ideally that's sad yeah I'm almost like

you're too good for this I they're not yeah they're not a lot of them are going to not be good enough for you're right you're right that's true that's actually a funny point they're not like when you see acting you're like so what are you going to do you're why are we talking to you yeah yeah yeah do you have any points if you're like no i have two funny anecdotes yeah yeah yeah okay it's the fucking Hemsworth thing again where you're like if you're not good looking of course none of this is happening yeah yeah yeah no I would so now that we have points of that right now that the only that's like you're forced to develop a point of view because you're fucked up looking and you have different psychological issues yeah yeah yeah yeah wonderful medley of course a nice problems and then you and and and now they people realize that that's valuable yeah and they but I always thought it was valuable I literally always I even during like doing TV shows I was like stand up school even this interesting I always thought that.

Yeah, I mean, I certainly have, I like it more. I actually, that's something I learned is that I just love stand-up. Like, acting and shit is cool, but it's like, it's really close to feeling like a real job. And I don't like that. You know what I mean? Like, I don't like that there is a really strict schedule. You do, on some level, I like feeling like you're part of a team. That's kind of cool.

Yeah. That's nice. But this really is bullshit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm kidding. but also like income friendship. Yeah. It's like pretty fucking good.

It's pretty sick. Yeah. It is hilarious how it's become the only. But you, but I, when we first spoke, you were like a year ago, it seemed like you were more interested in it.

I'm more, I honestly am more interested in acting creatively only because it's new to me, right? Like that's what it is. Instead, it's like I love stand-up and I, there's definitely more for me to do. I don't think I've made a great special.

I think I, that's really, if I make a special that I feel is the best I can do, even if it's not received as like an all-time great, if I feel like I maxed my potential out, then I'm kind of like, what else

do I need to do for stand-up? And then I, and what I'm realizing is nothing and it is the enjoyment of it that matters. And I like the day-to-day lifestyle, but from a like the joy I felt getting good at comedy because there's something about, and this is advice

we give to callers all the time where it's like, pick something and get better at it, and you'll feel good about yourself, no matter what it is. Like, I could be working out, that could be trying to lose weight, that could be writing, drawing, even your job, really. But like, if you're somebody who's struggle with self-esteem, there's something, there's just something so rewarding about just getting good at something. And I think I'm not good at acting, and I want to get good at it. And it's like, figuring that out is really interesting.

And then movies, I love, you know, when you're a kid, the first, your first, like, the The first thing you fall in love with, entertainment-wise, is movies. Whether you like, like, I liked movies, and then I branched off into stand-up. I found what I realized, and then I found, you know, comedy, you know, The Simpsons and, like, other shit that's related, Saturday Night Live, all this other shit. But the first thing you watch is fucking a Disney movie or, like, some classic, and you're like, this is sick. And there is, and I think also that the, I don't like how disposable everything is, and I don't

like that, you know, people come up to you and they'll say, I love your content. And I like, I like, I know what they're saying. Yeah. That's nice. Yeah. But I hate that content is the, that's the word for your stuff or your art or your stand-up. Do you like the term creator? I'm a creator or I'm a creative. I don't, I personally don't like it. Those both are bad. Those are both bad. I agree. Creator is just creative for, is, creator is millennial creative. Creative is like, yeah. He's a creative. Yeah. And it's like a guy who works in advertising. advertising or whatever. But I think in a world where things are disposable,

and I think that's affected my output too. I mean, I think, first of all, what's rewarded is, is constant churn and being disposable. And I'm struggling with that a little bit because I think I, I don't know, I'm trying to figure out a way to do that that is artistically fulfilling

that's not just sort of the same beats over and over again. But I think movies are the last thing, even though it's kind of dwindling in popularity, Yeah. It's the last thing that you actually have to watch how it's intended and like... On a phone. Yeah, right, right, right.

On a phone on the train while you're shitting and then maybe you move it to the iPad if you really like it. At least a segment of the people who watch it, watch it, watch it how it's supposed to, right? And it's still the last thing... Less every year. It's less every year, but there's still, there are some critics who engage with it critically. And I do think movies are becoming, it's sort of becoming like, like young kids are in a moment. movies and the way that I think they're like art installations now I know the way people were into vinyl or something and that sucks for the general culture but I think I'm okay with that and even if

it's a small community it's like it still is the one medium that people will interact with and judge in the way that you want it to be seen not necessarily even though some people are watching it in chopped up verticals on their phone and so anyway long this is a long argument or a conversation Sorry, sorry, but the long answer is that that's what interests me about movies too is like it feels like the last type of entertainment that people are willing to contend with the way the artist wants you to look at it, right? And then, and then also, I'm not good at it, I don't know what I'm doing, and so it is fun to get better at something, and it's also, the final thing is I love comedy so much

that getting a laugh in every different medium is interesting to me. And so figuring out, being a funny actor is a lot different than being a funny stand-up, being a funny movie filmmaker is a lot different than being a funny actor. And so that's kind of why that. So you see them as like the rings in Avengers. Like you're going to get laughs in every different. Exactly, exactly. It's like it's at least, and again, maybe I never achieve that, but it's like it's the, you know, the corny, the, the Odyssey is the, you know, the journey is what it's all about. it at least gives my life some purpose to be like this is what I want to chase

you know creatively and then obviously there's purpose to be found in your personal life which I'm way far behind. This is kind of similar to what I'm saying about CBGB. Okay let's get back to it. In that the the reason you love you said when you're a kid and you see a movie and then you go I want to do movies. Yeah. It's a bit of like a fetish in that like I saw my mom's friend's feet and now I jerk off to feet because that's what I saw first. It hit me in just the right day. And yeah. And similarly when there was a thing 20 years ago when people go, no one wants to be famous from YouTube. That was like literally like, trust me, no one wants to be famous.

And now it's just generationally like they absolutely want to be famous for YouTube. Now not only do they want to, but now that's old and they want to be streamers. Yeah, they want to. Yeah, exactly. So. So, and then there'll be a new thing. And a widescreen film. Okay, we're going to go all the way back. Silent film. I do actually think we are going, we are regressing, and that this is closer to vaudeville, that what, that TikTok and stuff is vaudeville because it's the simplest and everyone's

plagiarizing off each other. And it's like, you know, people are making, getting huge views off the dumbest, most simple jokes, that it's kind of like, whoa, that guy did a backflip. You know what I mean? it's like we've kind of regressed to the point where the fact that that dude does backflips is so fucking funny to me because it's so like uh like literally it's like if you could throw down fucking smoke and disappear like like like the like the like the like the batman like the fucking riddler yeah but that's a great yeah he is like a yeah that guy where uh speed is

just like it's so funny that he's just entertaining in such a uh you know sort of like um uh base way and also it's not just him it's like it's like entertainment has regressed to the point where it's like is this cool will this hold your attention and that's what that's where it all started have you even seen that guy outfits he just tries on outfits no but that's yeah that's fucking hilarious my man fits you got to get him you got to follow him on Twitch he just tries on I'll check out fits yeah um but so what I'm saying is you're fetishizing film because of your age and when you so i meaning because i don't i kind of in it's similar to cbgb like do we need to protect cbgb do we need to protect cinema because i stand-up's amazing but i also think like grand

theft auto is better than anything i've ever experienced as an entertainment product oh i mean like so i can't but that's not they're not in the same you know uh category and they don't stimulate you the same way you know what I'm saying like do we need to get rid of books no no I'm not saying we get rid of them I'm just saying this idea of like that is the highest form

the idea of this hierarchy of form to me is a bit like random and and even film as like a thing when you compare it to video game money it's like like GTA is the most successful franchise of anything of all time yeah yeah no that's a good point I mean I'm sure there are people who

look at film and even look at who look at that is very low who look at film is like a moron's art form right yeah like I don't decide where he goes yeah no I meant like older I don't decide what Michael Corleone I didn't even mean kids now I meant like

probably in like when film became the dominant when it became authors were like fun is this playwright right playwrights like I'm sure philosopher like I'm sure there was a lot of theory and philosophy about we're too dumb to even know who Yeah, exactly. Probably fucking, I don't know, like, Play-Doh.

Like, Plato? Where was Play-O? And Adorno? What the fuck were those guys' names, Eld is? Marshall McLuhan, those motherfuckers. Yeah, I don't know. Listen, you are right. You're right in that this shit is fluid and it keeps changing. But all I can do

is like, this is who I am. Yeah, you have to listen to who you are. Yeah. It's also like, I've streamed, I don't think it's interesting to be a good streamer. I think... That's what I was also going to say. does it mean to be a good comedian like in it doing it like what what what are you what service what service are you providing or whatever yeah versus directing a movie you've been around enough movies like i i've directed movie i've been directed a bunch of shit and it's like what is what am i doing

the thing you have to do is a lot of logistics for sure a lot of and it's a weird talent cluster to like, I'm good at logistics and getting DiCaprio to make a noise when he comes through the door and I got to get the light. It's just like a weird. Well, but here's the thing that does, similar to stand-up, something that attracts me like directing in particular is that there is actually no exact way to do it. Right. Stand-up, you can go to, you can take a class, I guess but you have to figure out what works for you

everyone has their own talents directing is a similar thing you can read books about it you can go to fucking film school but there are directors who are incredible getting emotional performances out of their actors

there's directors who are great at the logistics and they're essentially like the most talented producer and they get everything working at the right time there's also you know even now I've only worked

a few directors the personality types are so different some people have incredible taste right and they don't you feel like they're not doing much, but they put the whole fucking thing together, and they're like, I don't need to fucking do it because I pick

the exact right people for every fucking role, and this is going to be awesome. Some people do their shit. Some people, you know, the Cohen brothers are famous for like, they storyboard every fucking frame. There is, you want to talk about how it's disrespectful to ad lib. There's maybe two ad lib

lines in all of their history of their movies. And then there's people who are like, the magic happens on the day, baby. You know, and And so something that's interesting to me is that there is no, there is no, like, road map to that. And it's like you decide, you become who you are. And that's cool to me too. Yeah, I totally agree.

And, but if people don't want to watch it, I also completely understand. Oh, yeah. No, I don't have, I mean. If, like, if they're interested in it's diminishing other than, like, K-pop demon hunters. That's not my, I agree with you. I'm not really a, I'm not talking about this from like a. media. I'm not a fucking media scholar, right? It's not, I'm not trying to decide. I'm not trying to preserve art forms for the good of society. I'm not trying to do any of this shit. I'm

even saying, I'm recognizing movies are diminishing and I don't think they're coming back in the way they ever were, right? Because how can they really come back? The reason they were so fucking, they were so popular, it's like, there was no TV. People would go to them. The way we just fucking throw on law in a lawn order and watch it four times, you would walk to your movie. There's a movie theater on every fucking corner. You would pay $0.14. And you would watch three sick movies. And by the way, some of them were trashy.

The more stuff got made because there was just a market for it, right? That's never coming back. And I'm admitting it's, I even started this by saying it's become like vinyl was when I was a teenager. There was some weird kid who would go to a vinyl store. Like you see it now, film Twitter, letterboxed people. There's a small community. And what I'm saying is, I'm okay. I am a man of my time

My life is ending Relatively soon, right? I'm midway into my life, right? And what will make me, what I'm interested in, what I know will fulfill me is like, I'm just gonna, I like that this corner exists

where the thing that was important to me still matters and this is what will drive me artistically. There's at least, there's a smaller pool for it, but there's still a pool for it. And then I'll even say from the sociopaths,

part of your brain that everybody who wants to be successful in entertainment or politics or whatever has, which I'm actively trying to fight, there's a little party that's also like at the end of the day, even though there's fewer of them, a movie star, even in our current society, is still, I think, the highest form of fame. I agree, but it's really interesting to watch them get reduced. Yeah, no, it's fucking fascinating. fighting for this much fucking ice.

You know what I mean? It's not that polar bears aren't cool. Like where DiCaprio was doing podcasts and people were like fucking RIP that actually broke my heart.

You hate to see it. Come on. No disrespect, but come on. We love the kelp we love them. I know, sorry. You know, I'm sure you directed them

in a fucking Lowe's ad or something but. Thank you. Literally. Last year, yeah. Two years in a row, guys.

Two years in a row and I directed Jason in a charcoal commercial in Philly great guys but come fucking on no but but retired

don't blame them blame DeCaprio for the yeah broke my heart yeah and that movie's incredible totally great

so but it is funny to watch it get it's the polar bras on ice where it's it's terrifying and but I but as being in comedy are yeah I don't want to say our ice is getting bigger

it seems like it. I would say, actually the poll, we stumbled into this metaphor, I think it makes sense. A perfect metaphor. Because it doesn't mean the, the polar bears are still cool. They're just dying.

And the coolest thing you could be is a fucking polar bear, they'll kill anything, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we're in a world where now it's like, fucking streamers are like, we're in a world of climate change. Little sea mollusks or something.

Yeah. You know, like, I guess what bothers me about it, and I said I'm not, like we've basically done media criticism this whole podcast. I know, I've never, I don't know if this is going to be.

be a very lucrative episode. It doesn't matter. It cares. 50 a year. This might come out in January, for Christ's sake. You know, this is in the vault, folks. We don't know. You could hear this in November.

You could hear this March 15th for all I fucking know. 2027. This is actually, this is good because you're the person who most encouraged me to just be like, dude, who gives a fuck, put it in the vault. And our conversation is evergreen because no one will care about it. No matter when it comes out. I think the word you're looking for is never green. Yeah.

I'm having a good time, but we literally could just not have the microphones on right now. Anyway, whatever. All I was going to make was, I was going to say something about streaming is just like what it rewards is that constant churn. It's literally like we would rather watch a live feed of guys hanging out than a movie.

It's so weird. But it doesn't matter. Can we talk about in cells? We can absolutely go about insoles. Because I sent you a link. Yeah. to a subreddit, I think it's called It's That Bad. And it's basically, I should know I'm the moderator.

Well, we have also, on Compton, we did an episode about the Our Small Penis Problems one, one episode. And that's a, that's a real tough one. But anyway, go ahead. It's that bad is similar. It's just basically just like, guys, it's like, whatever. It's, I don't know what pill it is. I don't know what, I don't know, which pill of it. Yeah, but like.

Black, red. Yeah. it's uh but it was basically the guy was espousing that in cells are sort of wasting their time in some ways like deifying women as this um something to aspire to as like the highest male aspiration is to be a good man for a woman okay yeah and i sent it to you because you were talking about giving in cells hope. I think it's very important. Yeah, but I'm trying to give them hope

in a different way. Yeah. Which is like, it's not, it's a, it's an option. You want them to sign up for AI girlfriends. You want them to get fuck robots and you want them to completely give away their humanity instead of, instead of doing some

lat pull downs. No, no, no, but what I'm, no, I do want to, if you want to do lap pull downs and be polite for woman do that but what i'm saying is what's the what is the aspiration about like what's the why do you think that men are automatically better if they aspire to female companionship well it's like saying it's like saying do you aspire to fucking eat food or see the sun i think a part of humanity is like Like, basically you're saying like... Both things that I clearly don't care a lot about.

I know. You would fucking probably drink soil-ins for every meal. Give me a better example. Maybe that actually does explain this. Because I am a man who likes to enjoy worldly thing. You know, clearly my issue is fucking gluttony and fucking having too good at time, whatever. I think there is your basic humanity is in, you know, looking for love, companionship, these sorts of things. In the same way that there is something, there is something.

something kind of like human and not noble, but what you're meant to do is look for these things, like look for the right person, have a romantic relationship in the same way that like going outside and fucking looking at a beauty. Don't stay under fluorescent light. Go outside. There's a beauty and there's a natural human beauty in like touching grass to put it on internet terms. And even the food thing, it's like, yeah, it's this equivalent of like, could you survive off of fucking Soylent and something that they bought. Soylent kind of went left. Yeah, you're right. Heel.

Where, I'm a heel guy. Soilent's palm pile. Parle code deal, obviously. I like Hewled too. You know, after a workout, sometimes it's nice. It has everything you need. But it's like, that's what I'm saying is that to be human are these things that you don't technically need.

Yeah. Right? And that like, I also think America, I mean, this is all, now we're really getting the shit no one cares about. But like, this is bread because of. American capitalism and the way our society is put together where we've lost community we've lost touch with our fellow man

and they are pushing we in sales are kind of getting pushed to sort of like you have less money you feel like a loser because you don't there's no fucking good jobs um you know and then and then it's like everything is haves and have nots the point where it's even gone to basic humanity of dating

and if you're a fucking ugly loser with no money it's like yeah it is fucking harder to get pussy I'm saying that as a form of Marinozo, that's why I'm an expert here is I spent my teen years like this, right? Me and Elders, that's why we speak on such authority. And I think like... But what I'm saying is what have been the most valuable moments of your life? And I don't mean, like, name them.

And I'm just mean, like, were they... Because you know the history of romance and all that. It's like a new thing. It's a new thing. It was mostly just like property and farms and dowries and like... And, like, just having a, like, women, women were sort of, like, chattel. So this idea of, like, romance is new. So I'm wondering.

But how, what was the quality of life like when people lived like that? Awful. That's what we're talking about. I mean, but the quality of life was awful because there was no running water. I was no, like, I mean, there was just, like, it was a very shitty quality of life. Because of general inequality, I think. I would say the quality of life was that bad. Because, you know, who had that was aristocracy.

Like, they got to, the people that got to have. concubines. Like the thing rich people have had forever and have hoarded is the thing everybody deserves. So at the time we're talking about serfs who had to marry their daughter off for fucking cows or whatever. It's like at. But also like, but the aristocrats are doing the same thing with like just a bigger payoff. Yeah, but they got to experience companionship and like yes, of course there was political marriage and there was all this stuff. But they got mistresses. They got to have like, you know, human touch. I'm not. But I don't think you're talking about, like, pussy, for lack of a better word.

No, I'm not. That's a small part of it. Like, there was basically, like, the reason there's monogamy now and is, like, so that everyone can get, it's not just all going to the top 1%. Totally. I do love that, like, I do love when women will flip that on guys. They're like, you know what? Let's have multiple marriages. It's like, you think you're getting multiple wives?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, the NBA will get, everyone in the NBA gets fucking, our pal, Blake Griffin. Correct. He gets as many wives as he wants, you know? That is absolutely correct. It ain't fucking podcast producers, no disrespect. Actually, others can probably pull two. Yeah.

On this, on this salary, on his W, he's making a WMBA max right now. He, he's got fucking pretty, he's got next level frames. The frames are nice. You got nice frames. He's tall. He's kept his head of hair. He'll be, he could, you get to. You did.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But anyway, no, I'm not talking about just pussy, but I'm talking about, I really am talking about let's define what it means to be a fucking human being. And I think like, for example, if somebody came to me when I was getting, when I was like, when I would have sawed my fucking left leg off to get pussy at 19 or whatever and was like, hey, we'll get you a fucking robot girlfriend. You know what I mean? Like, don't even worry about this. Like, you'll, you can focus on whatever. But it's like, I Well, you know, but that's the thing, if somebody did that to me, because the other thing is, what was a driving force in me getting good at comedy, in me getting confidence? I like that you're whispering. Yeah. What was it? Let's lean in.

Am I even in frame anymore? Am I in your frame now? Yeah, get in here, dude. It was trying to get pussy. There is a, that's also a basic human sort of like motivating factor. It's a huge drive. Why do you want to release that from me? I don't want.

What I'm saying is the drive's not going away, right? If you can make peace with masturbating and not seeing it as a failure. Sure. Right? Like it's just like just something that you're doing like eating by yourself or eating. Right. Having lean cuisine. Having a microwave.

Again, it doesn't even have to be like lesser. It can just be like high-end Uber Eats. Okay, maybe. I don't know. It is lesser than, but go ahead. It's necessary, but lesser. There are certain dinners that are, it's there. I would mostly like to eat with people.

Yeah. The issue is, yeah. It takes too long. The metaphor still works. True. It does. It does. It takes too long.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's too much social and too much texting ahead of time afterward and whatever. So what I'm saying is if you can make. masturbation more of a not even like post not clarity of just like not making your horniness your God because I think we take the horniness and then build this romance infrastructure around it when it may not I think there are guys that don't want families sure I think there are guys that don't want that that they may want the day to day of having a girlfriend they may not want it like I think we're starting from from horniness right

right and then we're we're building all this stuff around it so what i'm saying i'm not saying like therefore robots i'm just saying i i don't like the idea that guys are i never like the thing of like you complete me as a romance as a line of dialogue yeah okay like as like without my better half any of that shit uh i i resent it and i think if you gave your in cells um more it's like it's fun it's just a thing you can do. And I know the most rewarding parts of my life. Some were with in, we're romantically connected. And some were not. Like a lot of them were not, if I'm honest. But that is the big, you're saying. And I feel bad saying that. Do you know what I mean?

But I don't think you should feel bad. But all I'm saying is I don't think it should be your end all by no stretch of the imagination. In fact, I think what you just said is I think you, we don't even have time to get into it. But like for a number of- If you cut out the hour and 10 minutes of media criticism. No, that's staying, baby. The thing about podcasting is you don't ever cut anything out. No, you can't. It's malpractice. Look, is there an argument to be, like, I think that everything is a, there is a sort of ratio that works well for people. Yeah. I would say probably, we kind of touched on it a little bit, your chaotic family environment, like maybe that kind of intimacy, because to you, and I have this problem with, like, romantic relationships.

relationships. Like, I didn't know anybody who had a good marriage. So it took me a while to even realize, oh, what people think about when they want a marriage is the person they love the most in the world being around forever. Not someone they liked for a year. Like an ongoing, not a Hatfields and McCoys. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Not two people that absolutely despise each other in their marrow and it's an ongoing war that they're just dying for the next battle. So I think that, you know, that. But I think that's, how many, what percentage of people do you think should be married?

I don't fucking, you know, I, I don't know. 10%? No, I think it's, I think it's actually a lot more than that. Okay. I think actually, like, this is a, I think there's a. I think the thing that you explained, like, the pitch battle thing, I think that's the norm more than the exception. I think, like, I grew chaotic Europe. Sure, sure.

I think that's more, that's, I think that's the norm. I really do. I think that's the lion's share relationships. And it is, so what people are looking for, I think, is like, should this even be happening? Other than like the future of humanity. Yeah. Well, I guess the, that's interesting. I'm on Peter.

I'm with Peter Thiel on this. I'm not sure. Right. But that's what, I see what you're saying almost that there's a chaos to, we, Romance and whatever is a relatively new way to run a society. That it's way more orderly to look at it as a business transaction. If you find some romance in the, you know... Or arrange marriages with very low expectations.

Right, right. That actually that is better in terms of running a society. And I would say you're not wrong because you made a very good point. A lot of people who lead with romance when they're young and stupid end up and these fucked up. Now, should you have had 10 kids with those people? That's, maybe that's, maybe we can keep that to, you know, three, you know. My mom loves the podcast. He's a big Stavis world fan.

But I would say that, yes, just because it's orderly or whatever, it's like, I go back to this, what does it mean to be human? What does it mean to feel and to, you know, you have to take that chance on being fulfilled with somebody? And the fact that, you know, you might skew lower. and 30% of your stuff has been in romantic whatever and 70's been but you don't what would have you

I think your existence would be a lot worse if you take that 30 away like my counter would be for what are we why is this more efficient who cares so you can be better at your job so you can be better at creating money who fucking cares that's not what's important

it's like it's like the Kurt Vonnegut thing where he's like he needs to The short story about, like, buying an envelope. Do you know that one where he's like, I have to go buy an envelope? And I tell my wife, I got to go to the envelope. She's like, why do you go to the store every time? Yeah.

Buy fucking 100 on Amazon or whatever. I don't know if it was Amazon at the time. But buy 100. Every time you need an envelope, you have an envelope. And he's like, because I get up, I go outside. The fucking birds are chirping. I see a fucking weird guy at the bus stop. I'm like, nice pan.

You know, I do some crowd work. Where the fucking you're from? Totally, totally. I buy a fucking candy bar. oh that's fun I had a little treat like and he's basically like that's what it means to be alive it's like yes I could efficiently purchase it would be cheaper it would save me time but what am I doing with my time yeah and I think that's my argument is that like we are not here to be efficient robots and to create fucking shareholder value for whatever mega corporation we're all inevitably

working for we're here to just have a good time and maybe this is the group this is like me being Greek and having like our whole society has no economy and it's a very hangout based society but I would my argument is like we don't I don't I want I want people to have those experiences and to just have these messy things and experience love and like I don't want you because you don't have enough money and you're ugly and maybe your your family was bad because like look there's ugly motherfucker you know I may be a like if I had a mom who didn't believe in me I might still be a fucking in cell, right? Because it's like, I, she did instill something in me that I had to unlock. And I don't want you, just because your circumstances are bad, to be like,

you know what, man, it's really inefficient for you to try and get pussy this long. Like, like, you should give up on it and have fucking the hule of pussy and just, just, you know what, you'll be better at coding. And you can get more, you can game more. And you can watch more streamers, right? You know what I mean? It's like, no. Backflips. Backflips. What are they doing with their time? My man Fitz on Twitter. Yeah, check out Fitz. He's got, fall.

He's probably wearing some corduroy now. It's fucking sick. But anyway, that is my argument. It's like. But I'm not, you think I'm talking about efficiency. What I'm talking about is the amount of anguish I've experienced trying to be in relationships that I should not have been trying to be in. And because I thought the highest ideal was. Right.

So you're saying they're better off. not even trying to get posted. I'm not saying I want to give them the option that it's that you may be in and again maybe it's my special brand of chaos that I grew up with

but I just would find me anytime I went to therapy it was because like why don't I like this more sure why don't I like this relationship more I wasn't in the right one I actually am now yeah but like

okay that's my so maybe you just made my fucking point all that bullshit I really hope I didn't all that bulls bullshit led you to the right relationship and you're happy now and you're in a situation where things are fucking stable

and good. Yeah, yeah. But a lot of what's right about the relationship is me finally acknowledging what I'm capable of instead of having this ideal of taking their word for what I should be capable of and then being upset

all the time that I'm not and they're upset, but I'm secretly upset there. I resent them. We've all been there. being yeah so you let resentment build you pretend you're okay with something and then you're like that fucking bitch she should have known what i fucking actually wanted to do even though i didn't say i fucking she should have fucking i was making it pretty clear even though i said the exact opposite of what i feel to get out of an awkward conversation

she betrayed either way it's a betrayal either way it's a bitch i'm gonna do this for two more years yeah um no i'm not gonna break over there yeah no i'm just gonna fucking go on other girls Instagram and fucking like I'm going to like and then unlike quickly because ultimately I'm still a coward I won't even I don't even have the guts to cheat I prefer this

oh man my fucking stomach hurts I wonder if this is in any way related probably not but that's what I mean like that fucking cycle of nonsense I could have gotten to where this good relationship

sooner if I'd acknowledge my own you would never learn it. You would have never learned it if you didn't do if you didn't go through all that bullshit. And it probably took you longer because your love family is so fucked up. That rhyme where Jay-Z

and Kanye has done the same rhyme where it's like, well if I didn't deal drugs I wouldn't have been able to know not to deal I'm just like shut the fuck you like dealing drugs because there's money. Right, right. But I would say and yes, that's also true. You liked fucking all those insane women.

women at the time, right? You like, on some level, you liked it. One of them, Bobby Lee said, that girl's, the, that girl's got the craziest look I've ever seen in a woman's eyes. And from Bobby, that means something. Do you have her number? I mean, it really speaks to the level. He's like, that's the craziest woman I've ever seen.

Do you think she watched Mad TV? Uh-huh. Yeah. so so so yeah how do you okay how do you think you would have figured this out if you weren't dating you think you would have been meditated i had been more open with my what i'm saying now which i don't know that it's the highest aspiration for a human male because by the way like as as discussed romance is like a hundred years old 110 um like he's a little older than that it's not you're fucking read ancient Greek poetry

and shit like that? I mean, it's always been there. Societal structures have taken it out of our lives, would be my point. I think since fucking cavemen there's been romance. You know, true. I fundamentally disagree. Well, there we go. That might be the root of our disagreement. Trubadors were

not, Troobadors were hired by men to play for their lady. Like, eh, fucking this is what I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, so this idea of like, guys were not romantic. I don't, I think even emotions are new besides anger. You, you don't even fucking feel emotions.

You're just talking about yourself in the most clear way I can ever think. You came from an angry family of fucking 10. That's what you know. You know nothing but anger. Uh-huh. And no love. We're all, and I came from a family. I mean, we're just talking.

I mean, this is the other problem with everything. Everyone is projecting our own. Everyone is projecting, where it's like, I come from it where it was all chaos, but the good times were good, you know? that like, there were, like, there is things I, you know, even in my family, even in my parents. My brother and sisters, my fucking, I had, I also had great. Like, legitimately. But I don't know. I was furious.

Yeah. I don't think, I mean, I don't think the idea that emotions. What emotions did the, I think it's all related. I'm going to. Dude, look. Check your phone. You're going to be getting a lot of links from me. This is so funny because the podcast we did before.

I mean, I won't say what, but we, we recently had a conversation. where it was like, we were having almost the exact opposite conversation where it was like, isn't it crazy how human beings have been the same forever? And literally, I think we have all had the same exact thoughts and feelings and emotions since language was developed. That's my belief is that humanity has been fundamentally the same and that we do have these feelings and maybe we weren't, we weren't good at like expressing them, whatever, but I think people had the same feelings we've had fucking cavemen have had. You think, okay, so let's take a village we'll put it in like Brazil sure in a thousand years ago thousand years ago okay do you think

that they that all the men and the women that were together were in love and you think that it was like they were loving to the children and it was like what we would call a stable loving environment okay and it sounds like it's i don't think you're being sarcastic i really don't i would say no because because of what i said before where it was like societal structures and the like survival sometimes dictate that you have to order your society in a different way, right? So do I think those emotions were in those people? Yes. Do I think that if you grow,

if your society's in a very violent place and that like you're going to act a certain, you will adapt to your surroundings and like, you know, if things are harsh and violent, then like you're probably, you know, there's probably less about love and more about survival and power and like people just kidnap the woman they want.

But I would say in even ancient civilizations where there was order, you see it, where you see ancient works. And I will just say Greece because we have the most, you know, you look at ancient Greece, you look at Rome. They're fucking writing about love and feelings and all this shit. That was a big part of it. And so I think the second humans get a little breathing room, these emotions exist. These emotions exist and these feelings exist. And that, like, in-celldom is the way, like, if you were in a harsh environment and, like, some tribe where it was just like, you know, there was no time for romance because it was like,

you just had to align yourself with the strongest, most violent man. I think that's most of human history. Sure, absolutely. But we are very lucky to live in a time where that's not the case, right? And I'm saying, like, let's not let the fact, like, I think insult them is a version of those things has stripped some people from their ability to connect and have this, like, the joy of humanity that we get to live in because we're in a civilized time, it's almost so civilized and we're so comfortable that it's kind of taken it from them. And I'm saying, let's not do

that. Let's get back to, you know, let's enjoy the fruits of the time that we are, you know, that we're living in. And you can get over low self-esteem and like, you know, our food is too calorically dense. No one's starving. You're getting too fat. Let's triumph over that. Yeah. It's not that you're starving and you don't get to have a wife because you die at 12. It's your too fucking fat because all your food is too nutritious or whatever. It's like let's fucking, we can, it's new circumstances, but ultimately we can defeat those two. And I think like, and again, I just stick to my point of like, that is what it is to be human.

It doesn't make sense and it is emotion-based and it's like having a good time and companionship. I just think that's part of it. I really do. I agree. I would prefer. I'd want to give these young, these beautiful young men the option that it, it's just an option. It's a way to go.

Yeah. Similar to like, it's a type of music or, or like. What does that life look like to you? Which? What is this option, right? Like you, right? You're saying you could have figured it out if you hadn't been in these relationships. What are you doing instead of dating these women?

Just beating off? CrossFit But then inevitably you get jacked And you meet a girl at the CrossFit gym And you fuck her No, I'm I don't I don't know I like read like just my life Just without the nonsense of

Feeling like a failure Because I'm not meeting the romantic needs Well you know what's interesting Of a woman Well you know what's interesting is that That is kind of the advice we give people It's like for a while Don't worry about it

and improve yourself. Yeah. But I think if you do that, you will not stay in and sell. Because then you... I totally agree, but what I'm saying is... Maybe we just agree on this. Maybe we've just had this hour conversation

and we are actually on the same page. When you take the robots out of it... You want them to have robots or you don't want them to have... Fuck robots. Because that's... That is a hard line I say, do not go down that path. Here's, it's similar to my... It's a Grand Theft Auto argument I've had,

which is if... If I'm playing Grand Theft Auto argument, Yeah. And I'm having like an incredible experience. Mm-hmm. Why go out and drive a real car afterwards? Yes. What's the difference?

What's the difference between if it's the exact same flavor of protein? Mm-hmm. If it's the same grams, it tastes like rib-eye. What's the difference? Oh, wow. I get the, I get the avert, the human aversion to it. This is a good one. I like this one more.

Yeah, but like what is the, if you can get from a, the thing you can, that you're talking about in this utopian relationship, um, that I think some people have. Can you get it, if you get it from a robot and don't worry about humanity. We can lab grow people in the next, in the next, in the next warehouse over.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe they can all be blonde and six five with blue eyes. All the ugly people get sex robots, everyone. Look. This is what we're talking about. I mean, eugenics, it's time. Maybe it's time. So what I'm saying is if the same endorphins are being fired, the same chemicals are being fired by this robot, it's a bit like.

I have an answer. I have what would bother me about it. It's that this robot exists to serve you. it is a fully one way relationship and I think part of part of the experience is that it is not perfectly suited to you it's like people going to chat GPT

and they're like dude you're the fucking man exactly it's like if that's all you have and kind of like... Deep Seek is doing it now too deep is like the Chinese one it's like I expected from Silicon Valley but the Chinese I thought they'd be ice cold like totally like the kid

go go practice violin why you want to hear yeah that's hilarious yeah yeah yeah you have time to ask me about what Larry Byrd's statistics were. Yeah. Your life is frivolous. Yeah, go through your fucking equations.

That's my problem with it, is that maybe you can trick yourself into firing the same synapses, but again, you have opted out of humanity in a much more pleasurable way than like just not getting pussy. Now you've lab grown pussy, but I would say like part of the joy of making, you know, of achieving that is that it is a it's it's your combining forces with another person who's a completely separate entity and it's not just pleasing yourself it's actually pleasing someone now if you say the robot can we can program that in and they can pretend to be mad at you until you figure out to do you have to do the dishes to but then it just becomes a video game that you can then you'll go on

fucking red it and be like what's the cheat to get pussy on Thursday you know what I mean like a x Y double double tap her nipples fucking you know what I mean you know what I mean You're like, it's just like, wank, honk, bop, and it's like, she'll fuck you when it. We're like, that's my problem with it, is that it just, you just get whatever you want too easily. And my hunch is, there is no way that that opiate is used on disaffected men in any way that's good. Any society that sets that up, instead of saying, hey, why don't we have jobs programs and, like, health care so that, you know, you're, you don't, you're not all fucked. up and you can make money, you know, and infrastructure and cities where young people, like, go to Europe and it's like there's places people congregate, there's places people see each

other. And it's like instead of designing our cities where kind of to go back to our, to our cultural conversation, where it's like, it's like where we value human connection, because America has gone away from valuing that in the way we design our cities, the way we organize our life. Although I will say the, the amount of bikes and the, like, New York's, way better than it was 10 years ago. I love it. I mean, living here is fucking, I love, you know, being in Manhattan. I literally bike everywhere. But it's like, yeah, that, that is really it. Because that to me is a, is a like, nice, we can control people easily this way instead of just giving them a worthwhile. I guess it's just, I don't, I don't, I, obviously

it goes to like a mechanism of control and, and black mirror and all that shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're Joey Pan, you're Joey Pan's in the Matrix. You're like, seen in a while but where he's like he's like I don't even care that this is a fake steak you know what I mean? Yeah I mean that's kind of who you are here. It's a bit like what's the If everyone can have a matrix where

their life is good is that better than being a peasant in whatever fucking cyberpunk future Like yeah like basically. Is it better than being an in cell cyberpunk loser? What is human flourishing because I would see it as like

I had this never going to happen like but like there's that and I get to be a comedian all that other shit right right right right so and like I said I'm in a great relationship but I for that I want to say to the to the to the to those guys like it's a thing but it doesn't have to be the highest aspiration of your life yeah and again the same way it's like what if you're what do you do with all that time I don't know what do you do when you're single yeah yeah yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah. You figure it out. Play Mario tennis with your boys?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, now all of a sudden you don't like Mario tennis? What a horrible life. Doing drugs and watching fucking Ragnarok. But, okay, all right. Well, I, there is a limit to that because I am up against it where I'm like, this has been really fun, but I do feel like there is something else, right? And I do think pursuing personal growth in the form of relationships and in, like, community.

That's my next step personally. like I'm somebody who has maxed out the awesome life of my life has been chilling with the fellas yeah and having an awesome time yeah and I feel the ceiling of that so anyway either either extreme is bad for you I think that's another thing you can feel empty when your life's fucking so sick and you're not making real connection but it's just it's about it was I was finding myself putting that value above my own Or my, the values of that above the values of what I think is important in life or what I, what the things that I really care about. That's interesting because I have done the opposite where I have definitely put what my values of like, basically my career over. And this is starting from when I was in college. Like I remember I would be in therapy and be like, I don't think I can have a girlfriend because I need to be focusing on open mics. And I meant it. And I, you know.

I don't think that's bad advice. Maybe it wasn't at the time. But now I think I am stunted in the. opposite direction where my shit's going great career-wise I feel really good about it everything but I do feel behind in relationships and like you know just and not just even romantic ones like it the last couple years I got closer to my family I'd really drifted apart from them because I was so and it's and then the next level is like relationships and also like community and finding a place I want to live and putting down roots because I think all that

shit's important and so I think the extremes but I yeah I think that that's also valuable like community is valuable and fellowship and all that shit like i just think it's a miss i just i i i did it i went too far into that like into the extreme like of like i should and i got and i'm good man and what and just like i don't even i what do i it's like you literally i would have to go like what am i like and what are my value it's the heart it's i almost have to do it every day yeah and like i get that though and that thing where you're aspiring to like boot up

Savros yes of course and I am what is what's he like relative to the other than just like habits or like if you if you had a girlfriend who you loved and you how and you just did

what she wanted or you try to make her happy what do you think how would that change you I think I'd probably be more grounded I think like I would it helps you understand, even though now I know that, you know, career stuff and everything isn't important. It's like, that's all that really matters to me right now. And I'm trying to fall back on it.

But it's like, and it's one thing to intellectually say, that stuff doesn't matter. But when you have nothing else in your life, it's sort of default becomes the thing. Like some nebulous time off to improve myself is different than I need to see my, I need to actually spend time with my girl. The same way, I've kind of do that with my family. It's like, I made a, you know, instead of being here in podcasting or whatever, I went to fucking Baltimore, I saw my family. Now, did I sneak work into that too? And I have to work on that. Like, it's just making me a more balanced person is really the answer. And again, I do think there is a beauty in that and finding that and, and, you know, merging your life with a person, I think if it's done right, it's even better than just being

the best version of being single. You know what I mean? Because then it's like that I agree with. it's just so hard to fall into ones that aren't that, and you tell yourself they are because you have to. Sure. Because that's what the culture is telling you. So you can't even hear how you actually feel about it. You won't allow yourself to really feel about it. To feel what you feel.

What if we actually try, I'm sure Elders have been listening to this. Do we have any calls from in cells? Because what if we took this? No, look at him. God damn. Why did I even, I don't even think that you might be doing some fucking forward thinking producing

here. I mean, I'm not going to listen to calls while you guys are talking. But there's half the people that call in are fucking in cells eldest. You didn't have any ready to go. Well, I have one. I have what that is kind of... Because we do need to help the people as well. Yeah, we have to talk for five hours in a row uninterrupted. Yeah, of course.

But I do have a juicy story we can start with. That is kind of ultimately a moral philosophical question. Great, great. This is good. Like SummerSlam, but boring. Hey, Stavi, eldest, guest, would love your take on a situation that happened to me about six months ago. About a year ago, I got out of a four-year relationship with the girl I thought I was going to marry. I found out she was cheating on me.

Then about six months ago, I worked in entertainment. I was at an event with a, I'll say, a C-level celebrity who I worked there. And this celebrity, she was sort of flirty the whole week that we were away at this event. And then on the last night of the event, she invited me back to her room. Nice. We were both sober. We're both about the same age in our late 20s. I went back to her room

It got a little flirty We started to hook up We were making out I was in shock I kind of couldn't believe this was all happening And then as we're making out Her phone rings And it's her husband

And She sort of shoes me away for a second So I go sit on the couch And I listen to her, talk to her husband Because she put him on speaker phone And basically, it was like a good night, how was your day, how can't wait to see you, missing so much. And in that moment, my heart just tanked, because I thought, how many times was I this guy? And basically, she calls me back over.

She says, good night, hangs up, calls me back over to continue where we left off. But I couldn't do it. We kissed a little bit longer, and then I said I had to go, and I left her room, and basically I don't know how to feel about it. I'm probably never going to talk to her again, with the way my work is. It's not like she's someone I'm going to see again, but it was definitely like a once-in-a-lifetime sort of situation. Definitely. And you fucking squandered it. and of course

half my friends well I would have gotten harder I'm a bit I'll tell you right now fucking piece of shit anyone who knows me knows I would get harder in that situation

oh wow leaving and the other half thinks I did the right thing just wanted to sort of get your take on it because now it's been six months and I really don't know how to feel it depends on my new anymore sometimes I'm like wow what an amazing experience

I even got to book up and watch whatever CW shows she's the mom on and I should have just, you know, gone through with it. Anyway, I would love your take on it. How should I feel? Thanks. Interesting, interesting. So he basically just had like a moral clarity.

He had moral clarity. Help a woman cheat on her husband. I think he absolutely did the right thing. She was famous. Is that the thing? She was Cila. Some celebrity. She's probably hot as shit. Yeah. And also, yes. This is part of the problem of, like, putting fame above it.

Because it's like, you take the famous out of it. And this is almost no, there's almost no quandary at all. Yeah. It's just the general, I mean, we've come up with this question a bunch on the show where it's like, hey, how wrong is it to be the person someone is cheating with, right? And, you know, again, this is what I talk about where being a human is, it's all about being met. You know, it's not all perfect. Part of humanity is getting slurped off by some bitch who fucking, I don't even, you know. I'm trying to think who it posse level.

You leave it there. Some bitch. Getting slurped off by some bitch. That's part of life is getting slurped off by some bitch. Well, there is the thing of like, you know, should you be, should you extra not cheat because you got cheated on? Or do you take the other thing where it's like sometimes you're the hammer, sometimes you're the nail? Look, I would say, yeah. By the end of life. owed this. Was this God trying to be like, my bad, your, your, your ex sucked off for guy at work?

Yeah. Here, you know, fuck this lady on a straight to Netflix sitcom or whatever. Yeah. And you show that you will never watch, but it's in the top 10 for four weeks. And you're like, what is this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Reno? Yeah.

What's the premise? And it's just like a bunch of white people on a porch. Yeah. Like, okay. Yeah. Whatever Bridgeton knockoff And Bridgeton spin off The maid on a Bridgeton spin off

And there's a crime And there's a body There's a boat Yes Okay I don't Yeah Yeah I don't

To me Yeah I'm not a big I've done it Sure sure sure sure And I'm not even that ashamed of it It's like I don't know And like if I'm Have I been

I've been cheated on And I've yeah you're everybody by the end. Absolutely. So I don't know. That's another freeing thing about another in-cell thing. It's like you remember being the loser who got a girl taken from you and then you become the guy who takes the girl.

It's like it happens sometimes. And so how should you feel about it? It's about who you are. You're clearly a moral guy. You probably wouldn't have felt great about it. Also, the other thing is like the work element gives it another reason not to do it. You know what I mean? It's like this is somebody that it's a professional setting, you know, it's kind of a, you could argue

maybe, if anything, you could have been like, she lured me into her room and used her power over me as a celebrity. Yeah, this sounds like the setup for a lawsuit. Yeah, yeah. Maybe you got her dead to rights, Chief. She wanted me to cheat on her husband. She had lost my consent by showing that she's cheating. She said, wait here and called her husband on speaker.

Yeah, that is a crazy psychological. Putting on speaker is like this woman's a real asshole. if she's like hey can you give me five minutes and just like takes the call or whatever that's better putting it on speaker is like it is interesting because putting it on speaker almost kind of ensures you're the kind of dirtbag that'll take this to the grave you know what i mean because like someone who's on the fence and has to listen to this guy yeah yeah the sprinklers are fucked up again the water got in the kitchen you have to hear him say that yeah and then fuck his life that actually might have affected even me it's like a snuff film

with that point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have a question for you. This she goes, he goes sits on the couch. I'm assuming naked. What is the saddest part of the couch to sit on? Oh, interesting. Like lodged into a corner? I think you want to be, I think you want to be corner furthest the way. What I would choose is corner furthest away from her. Just to psychically put a little distance. The corner is sort of like, I mean, you know, you're sort of, it's comforting. You're leaning on it for emotional support. The saddest I think would be right in this middle divot Because you're sort of like You're just kind of fully it's yourself supporting you

And it's you being like you're kind of I'm ready whenever you're you're ready to suck me I'm just your little fuck toy and I'm gonna help you cheat on your husband You know that's the most sub I I would suggest Sitting on the arm Yeah Arm I didn't even consider that's why you're a visionary Neil I didn't even consider arm

Sit on the arm. You got to use the whole couch, bro. I didn't say cushions. Sit on the arm gives you your, you keep yourself esteem. I think if you did like a lay down on it, and if you do the thing that Sedakus used to do and that scared straight sketch where he'd hop onto the desk. Oh, yeah, yeah.

You lay down onto the bed. Yeah. Full confidence or take it to the next level. Sit on top. Top center is almost like I'm the king of this couch. Yeah, and I'm keeping my cock at eye level. Yeah. So you,

now you try to outdo me by making me listen to your husband. I'm going to make you look down the barrel of my dick while you talk to him. That lady's, she's evil. I don't want to say, like, that's so fucking awful. That's fucking crazy. And married the guy and is going to go home to him. Now, I wonder very, you know, light devil's advocate, is there some kind of, uh,

She probably would have told him if there was some kind of arrangement, right? Like, because it's also possible. We're talking about show business people. We're talking about a guy who's a simp to a famous woman. I'm sure plenty of people. Like, NBA players all cheat on their wives. I'm sure there's actresses who are like, look, I'm hot as shit. I'm an actress.

I'm going to, you're lucky to be with me. I'm going to. And you do, you see that dynamic where even if they don't actually cheat on them, the man is cucked by just, he's almost like her lap. dog, her husband? I think of a woman who makes $1 more than you. You are cucked. I guess I'm old-fashioned.

This is where I am on this. Of course. So there's a small chance, but she probably would have said something before he left. Who knows? But either way, did you do the right thing? Did you not do the right thing?

I think for you it was the right thing. Also, like, if you're looking for, like, a scalp of like, I fucked a famous, it's like you kind of just want, you did something. Oh, no. By the way, I've gotten to the age where knowing a girl would, if she would sign a notarized form that was like, I would have fucked you tonight. That would be enough for me. That's what it is. Grabbing a bare tit once. Well, you're going to love robot sex world.

She just fell into my trap. This is what the whole lifestyle is about. It comes with a sign affidavit from a woman you want to fuck it out. And then you just fuck the robot. Yes. Yes. They have to honor it. No, but that's what you want.

You want another human being to find you desirable enough to fuck you. Sure. And then you want tenderness on the other side. At a certain point, yeah. At a certain point, if you fucked enough, you're like, all right, I get pussy. It's getting pussies, whatever. But having someone want to fuck you. It's also kind of more strenuous than I'd like it to be some other times.

I've definitely, I've literally thrown my back out, having sex, and then I'm like, we're great. I got pussy and now the four days are ruined. But at what cost? I did it again. God damn. Oh, man, the fattest I ever was, I really was just doing every drug and, you know, random sex. And I was just, I really would throw my back out, like, every, like, there was a stretch where I was just throw my back out. getting pussy like I was just like I know this is going to happen it wasn't even like it might

happen it was like I'm so fat I'm gonna throw my back out I'm gonna go get a a massage but you'd schedule the massage yeah literally like it would be like when we get back from the road eldest I'm gonna be between podcasts I'm gonna go get a massage at the place on Steinway or whatever um you got time for a couple more yeah let's do a couple more because I'd love to use your wisdom on our fucking on our callers here hey stavi hey eldest and a esteemed guest. So a long-time listener, second-time caller?

I think I've called one, so my first one was stupid, so you guys didn't do anything with it. This one's probably pretty stupid, too, but I just need a little bit of advice. So I am an uncle to two nephews. One of them is three. The other one is less than a year. The one that is less than a year

is definitely the chillest of the two, and the oldest is a fucking nightmare to be around. I used to love him. He used to be super chill. But once he started turning three and four, he's become an absolute fucking nightmare to be around.

I am struggling with the fact that as just a person, I fucking hate kids. I despise them. They're sticky, they're gross, they're annoying, they're just overall, unpleasant to be around, but I feel like that is coming into conflict with the unspoken rule

that as his uncle, I'm meant to look past all that, I guess, and just pretend that he isn't a little piece of shit and, like, be cool with him, like, I, I, then I get into all the, all the things that he's done to piss me off. I mean, just existing, honestly. It's fucking nervous for him. horrible as that might sound. I just, I, I, I, I don't know. I guess my, I guess ultimately my question is, uh, is it okay for me to, to kind of, kind of ate my nephew?

Like, is he going to grow out of this? Is there a chance that he's going to be like, you know, like a shithead his entire life? Like, I don't know. Like, I don't know. Like, I don't know if it's like the way my brother and his wife are raising him. Because they don't like, they don't beat him, which is good, I guess. But, you know, as a kid that got beat a time or two as a kid, it definitely got me great. That's the problem.

He'd be way chiller if he got hit. Are you out of your fucking mind? You fucking idiot. When is, I mean, no one who got hit is better off because of it. In fact, some of them grow up to resent the weak so much, the resent that they can't hit children, that they become dickheads about it, and claim that they don't like kids because they're sticky and loud.

I want to Let me just Let me stop you right there Yeah A buddy of mine Has kids And they Hit him and his wife

Had a no spanking thing And And then like they were trying to leave And the daughter Wasn't getting ready or whatever Just being like a terror Like a real dickhead And

And the wife was like It's time And And he and he spanked his daughter and he said like she couldn't believe it like most of the tears were about like

I can't believe you did that yeah you betrayed me yeah the person who the person was supposed to look out for my safety harmed me and but they they they was never a problem again

yeah and look now he has a punctual daughter who resents him on some level and or again when you have kids dude it's my girl's a kid so it's like it's hitting is hitting I'm not

I'm there's gonna be no hitting you know what this is this is back to our like are we better off when there was no romance and it's like were we we were kids listen more when you hit them yes yes but they also then hit their wives yes you know what I mean

sometimes but sometimes they sometimes they didn't and you gotta take that into consideration the so what I'm saying is I think it's a like you've heard the thing again in the black community like

I'm going to hit you so that white people don't hit you in the future and it's going to be way worse. Yeah. Like there are useful forms of spanking that are instructive and pro-social.

I don't know that I believe that actually. I think hitting your kid is probably just abuse on every most of the time and I think like I mean I haven't looked at the literature but like I looked at it. I've looked at it brought it sounds like I did look there was like when I was younger there was so I kind of looked at it a little bit because of how many like you gotta beat your kids like jokes I would yeah yeah yeah counter and I almost as like a shitty you know

yeah early 20s a guy who had a yeah a guy who had a library cart and a and a avid viewer of BET comic view yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and so I was like this can't be true and I really don't think it's ever good it's just it's obviously harder. And it has the more, you know, there's more chaos to it. But what this guy's talking about is we can table the should you hit your kids conversation. Because I

think this guy is just like, because his question is about like the, my nephew's vibes are off. Am I an asshole? And can I hit some vibes? Yeah. Yeah, I don't, you can't I don't, kids are going to be what they're like.

Yeah. And boys are are like a handful yeah that's the other thing that i wasn't even aware of like it's he wakes up and it's like go time yeah until he goes sleep and he doesn't want to go to sleep yeah that's a fight oh yeah it's relentless i just experienced like yeah my friend's kid he's just he's just getting out of baby and kind of because he's like two and a half almost actually he's almost three and this is the age where he's like like he just i showed him at like like sword fighting for the first time she was like he's tried

to sword fight me you can't even you can't introduce it you can't introduce certain kinds of violence or like activity to the point where he saw him I stopped by their house right before bedtime he saw me his fucking eyes lit up yeah he comes he brings me I'm gonna get him a sword

for his birthday I'm gonna get him like foam swords right now where he has a pizza set and it's like a we were sword fighting with little spatulas or whatever he sees me, he goes right to the fucking spatulas and he's like, and he's just like, he choreographs a fight we did a month ago. To a baby, a month,

a guy who's been alive 26 months, that's one 26th of his life. Yeah. But he remembers it. He's like, this is one of my most cherished memories. It's a sword fight with, you know, my mom's friend. So, like, and yes, and he's a fucking handful and he's like energetic.

Don't hit him. I'm not going to hit him. He's too sweet. He's too great. You don't need it. And I did, by the way, I did see and he started crying and they were like

he didn't want to go to bed he wanted to keep sword fighting and my friend did something that looked annoying like I saw it I saw it in their eyes she was like she talked him through his emotions

and it took like a half hour and it probably would have been a lot easier to fucking backhand the money's gonna be better off you know because he went through that what what's worked for you

in terms of discipline in your life personally yeah in terms of just like like I I'm, I, like, have, like, locked my computer. I've, like, done, I had a TV lock. I've, like, my, my mom used to lock the TV up.

Like, I'm not, I don't, I'm not prone to do the, have good work habits. I'm, like, prone to be lazy, procrastinate, all that shit. Yeah. And I've had to institute shit to make myself better at it. So that's why when I hear about hitting, it's like, it's the next, it's the next level. You wish you could hit yourself? Is that what you're saying? I do hit myself.

Yeah. That's what I'm trying to tell you Right When I saw The Tom Hanks Da Vinci Code The guy who whips himself I was like

Yo I didn't know That shit is wild I didn't I like this term Self-flatulation I was aware of I didn't know

They had a device Right Right right Yeah What's worked for me And that it was on Amazon Prime Of course Yeah

And it's for sex Usually But you figure Not Or writing Yeah banging out that screenplay. What's worked for me is literally nothing.

I mean, nothing ever. It's like, things have to get so bad that, like, I just, even right now, it's like, I, it's cycles of, like, despair, and then, like, yeah, I'm nothing. I'm struggling, my big, my, the defining struggle of my life will be discipline around food. I mean, I've been able to cut out drugs. I've been able to even put together hard periods of like,

but if I don't, what's worked for me is like solely focusing on something when it's gotten so bad it needs all my attention, right? And I think that cycles of shame and guilt into like, that's kind of how I'm, so I don't know. I'm not, you know, I have a lot of fuck. I have my own, you know, psychological issues. But when it comes to this guy, his attitude just sucks, dick, when it comes to this kid. Oh, it's terrible. I almost don't think he should be allowed near the

kid. Yeah, yeah. It's like, look, dude, he's a fucking kid. Also, you're like, I hate kids thing. It's like, it's a little corny when I hear people say that shit. Because like, I'm not even somebody who's sold on whether I want to have kids, right? Because it's a lot of work and it's a lot of like, you dedicate, you know, whatever. But I, like, being somebody who wants to be childless and understanding that you don't want to have a kid is different than being like kids. suck. It's like, no, we're all fucking kids. It's a part of humanity. It's like, even if you don't have kids, it's like

it's nice to be around kids. Also, it's like there's positives, like, that level of innocence, that level of like, you know, someone who's not self-conscious at all. Yeah, or it's pure earnestness. Pure earnest and also, like, honest with you about exactly what they're feeling at all

times. There's like things you can, like, you can learn things from children, too. The way they can learn, like, not being complete fucking asshole, you know, you and it's like and you just have to by the way model that behavior and like who knows you know whatever and it's like your your your brother or sister and their their husband or wife uh like you know they might just be overworked this kid might just be a handful like my brother now who is the easiest guy to get along with and the most dependable member

of my family by far was a fucking terror when he was a little kid who's just super energetic hard to like you know just and also kids grow out of me it's like, I just don't like that whole vibe of like kids. The thing of like, I wish I should could, yeah, like and he'll get better. The kid will get, his vibe will get better as the age. Yeah, yeah.

I also like, by the way, I don't know that your vibes are good. Are you the judge of good vibes? You're not sure? Yeah. I'm on the fence. Yeah. This is something that happens in families all the time too. But you also have to walk the line because he's a fan. Right. Well, you don't want to lose them. We're at the point where we can lose them easy. We can lose

one or two. What were you going to say? I feel like it happens in families all the time too where like, you know, from childhood, you just attach certain like characteristics to a kid where like that informs every interaction you have with this kid. That's for the rest of your life. So, you know, check yourself like if you're doing that. Is this going to be like 17 one day and just like a totally normal high school and you're like, oh, here's this annoying fucking bitch. Yeah. Because he had a bad day when he was four now you think he's a piece of shit

for life that's a great point it's also a different kind of engagement with a kid it's like it's not for you totally

and by the way this also could mean you're not around the kid enough right yeah like you see him every six months

and like you said you barely know who he is you might have caught him on an outlier day like I've been around the kid I was talking about if you're the kid

call in let us know what's happening dial on your little Fisher Price phone and let us know what's going on But yeah, you know, I've been around my friend's kid enough where I've seen him behave lots of different ways. I'm like, now with my nephew, I'm like, I need to be around him at least once a month so that I actually have a real relationship with him, even though I live in a different city.

So it's like, you know, I got to hunch your, you're contributing to that. And also the funny thing is one thing I love about kids, too, is that they just, when they don't like you, they don't tell you. There's nothing better than when there's like a piece of shit in the family, like some shitty grail. grandpa or something, you know, and everyone's like walking on eggshells around him and nobody tell, you know, everyone's like just, and a baby's like, I don't like grandpa Marty. Yeah. And then it's like, he has to be like, I mean, that old expression for the mouth of babes or whatever. It's like there's a reason for it.

But anyway, we side with the baby. Grow up, dude. He's a fucking kid. Stop being an asshole. Next question, Eldis. Hey, Sam. Hi, guys. Elvis.

girl with a problem and huge shit so you could do your thing and bump this to the top I'd really appreciate it I'm going to come right to the chase here I need help

finding a way to get to know someone intellectually quicker in like the dating realm I you know the only requirement I have for

talking with somebody or dating with them slightly is that they have to be somewhat intelligent and on my level and you would think living in Boston working at a really great university this might not be hard to find I'm fine good it is so unfortunately it's funny a lot of these universities have gone woke so sweetheart I get it we get it sister they're telling you you know you're making conversation they're like, you know, hey, oh, you have a nephew? Why don't we chop his cock off and put him in a dress?

And that's education. Yeah, and then teach him Spanish. Yeah. You know, a lot of these people at this university, they want to get rid of English. They want to make the American flag. They want to change to a picture of Rupal. Go ahead. Confident, but not cocky.

I don't fix my looks for the problem. And I've done the apps. on speed dating. I actually host see dating events. Very social. I'm involved in the startup community for meeting them people. But I just cannot find a way to...

The startup community you want to get intellectually stimulating fucking conversation. Is there anybody stupider than tech people in the fucking world? You know, no disrespect to you. You have huge tis. You know, USA. And you're a fan. You know, fan is not enough to get you

to be, but your fan plus huge tits that, you know. Right this way. Oh, a table just opened up. Oh, it's funny. Put huge tits on table number four. I hope it's okay. It's on our most picaresque veranda view.

Is that okay with you? 76 degree breeze? Hey, we've been waiting here a while. Shut up. Shut the fuck up. some guy who called in six months ago hey my whole family died of cancer I'll find a way to meet someone and get to know them intellectually

enough to be interested in speaking with them I'm kinky I want to fuck I don't really want I don't care if this is a lifetime thing or not I really just want to get laid so yeah any advice would be greatly appreciated I don't think you're going to have any way to find someone intellectually

or like there's no app for that or anything but figuring out how to get to know them quicker intellectually any advice please thank you I'm having a hard time even seen she's contradicting herself okay which is I just want to get laid but I want to connect with them intellectually

so like if you just want to get laid then go out you know like it's simple right the intellectual thing. I think the fastest, well, I think taking shit out of the realm of, you're not going to believe this, out of the realm of romance. Yeah. Is, do you want, if you want to know what he's

actually like, like I was talking the other day, like, I've taken girls, I would take girls on dates to target. Meaning like, let's take it out of the like, yes, yes. The usual traggings of dating. What's this relationship going to be? Yeah. It's going to be a sitting on a couch watching

television. Yeah. Yeah. And eating. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, and it's like, why don't you show, because that's not what the relationship is going to be. Courtship is not really. It's not a, it's not a simulacrum of what the relationship's going to be. It's like guys don't, I have lifelong friendships, the, and there was not a good opening line. Right, right, right. It was not a good, like, we didn't, I didn't woo them.

Yes, yes, yes. But so what I'm saying is try to get it out of that as soon as possible. That's interesting, yeah. And I think, like, I guess. she's trying to really thread the needle here where she's like, look, I'm down. Look, I got huge hits. Yeah, she's like, I got big cities.

I want them wrapped around some prick. But I don't want the guy to be a total fucking idiot. That's basically what she's saying. And that is, you're right, that is a harder needle to thread than like, you know, just fucking whoever you find attractive pretty quickly. Or, but the thing is, it's not as hard as finding a lifelong lasting relationship. So I think you just have to increase. your... Basically, you just have to like increase your standards a little bit, right?

Like... Or lower them. Yeah, I guess lower them. I guess, I guess not even standards. I guess the, you know, admissions process or just like your rubric for who you're going to hook up with. Like... I think it is hard to find a guy that's interesting. Like, whatever, has a good brain and has charisma.

Yeah. So I think that's what she may be looking for. And that also she doesn't, that you want also, that is also cool with exactly the type of, she wants a relationship that's kind of like more than just hooking up, but not quite a relation, like a serious relationship? Do you think it's more than just hooking up? I think, well, I think she thinks it's not. I think she thinks it's just hooking up.

Okay, so she just wants to look up, but she wants to like baseline respect the person, I guess. That is hard. Oh, no. I mean, some say impossible. I mean, I don't know that there's a secret. I think you just have to do whatever you're currently doing, but be picky. It's just your frustration, I hear your frustration.

And yeah, you're doing something that's harder than just hooking up with someone. Yeah. You're doing something that's like, and you could even argue it's harder than dating seriously because if you find somebody who you hit it off with and you're both aligned, a serious relationship is something more people are interested in

then like no strings attached but we have a ton in common because I don't believe she doesn't want a relationship I think she's open to it okay yeah I can't believe we're having to like talk through like yeah this girl with the one who wants to hook up we're like we got to help her maybe I don't think she really like specifies that she wants a real relationship but she's open to whatever but she just wants to find a guy she's maybe more open to casual hookups than most people, but she really just wants to find a guy who she likes intellectually. She hammered intellectually home a lot of times. Just keep looking. I don't know. I mean, yeah, it unfortunately comes up to that. And it's like, and I would say look outside of your zones, right? Because that happens a lot where

people just like, you know, dating for convenience. Yeah. And especially thinking you think where you are is what you want to find. And I would argue startups and bought, like we, we made fun of it but it's like tech guys are fun yeah it's like it's also the same for people yeah and it's the same and they all think the same way yeah even academics to some degree it's like you know um and so you just it shouldn't be that hard but also there's no magic thing she's like she's saying she doesn't want to be on dating apps and that kind of thing it's like you kind of have to yeah what do you in fact if you look if i was like that's happened the opposite by the way nobody wants to be on dating yeah yeah nobody's like dying totally no I agree with you everyone just sort of you

kind of have to do it and it's like I'm writing an opening line right now I've been working about me about me yeah like I've been on an app but I've hit it off with somebody and I think we've been like you know I like met them in passing in person then we hit it off and we're the conversation's going good but she was just like you say you want you don't want anything serious and I want something serious this is fun but like like I seem cool but but But what are we really even doing here? And I understood what she was coming from. I would say if the opposite happened

and a guy was looking for something serious and it was a cute girl who he hit it off with, she was like, hey, by the way, I see you're looking for something serious. I kind of just want to hook. You seem cool. I kind of just want to hook up. No one's going to be mad at that.

No one's going to be like, no one's going to be like, oh, come on. This bitch. Are you serious? Let's have a formal, you know, Elizabethan courtship. or whatever. So I think you just got to keep pounding the pavement,

unfortunately, because, yeah, you're just experiencing having standards. Like, that's really what this comes down to. Yeah, that's the whole, that's the entirety of the problem. And it's not even really a problem. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, was there anything? I mean, do you think, because we also couldn't hear all, are we missing anything?

I don't think so. Plus, we riffed so hard on that woke thing. Yeah, totally. I mean, it was, wow, we were fucking broke. We're not missing anything, are we else? I don't think so. Just keep looking. I don't know.

I think this is the classic, like, I hate when people are like, talk about, like, you know, the drudgery of dating. They're like, oh, I hate small talk. Let's get to the big stuff. It's like, small talk is just, like, part of the process, like, part of the flow of dating. It's a gateway to the big stuff. Yeah. Like, oh, what do you do for work, all that? shit family and it's like that's how you like warm up there's other things there's other things

going on while while like you're talking about that shit that's like oh this guy looks good yeah he's not like he's comporting himself in a way i like right the pheromones on some i'm even you know even an animalistic way you're like i'm i am getting more attracted to this person just by the way they're yeah there's rituals that you have to go before they're unavoidable and it's also like some It's your, it's not about what you're saying. It's not about like, oh, you live, it's about, it's about the Riz. Yeah, yeah, the rhythm.

Yeah, your, yeah, your charisma. Yeah, like, what do you, like, it really is not about, it's just about like, what do you like? Also, if I could sound like an in-self for a second, it's like, this is Red Pill Corner. If you're, if you're on, if you're on a date and, you know, it's just some hot guy talking about how he thinks like vampires are cool or something. Is that what you mean by intellectual? Oh, is that what I'll get you going on? Red pill corner. It's like part of that.

Yeah, it's like, believe me, I remember this in our 20s where it's like, I want a funny guy and she sucks the guy who says like, you know, who just did Anchorman. Yeah, quote, yeah, yeah, yeah, right. When I was 20, I had that same, you know, I was like, hey, I'm bombing at seafood restaurants. Right. I'm actually funny. Now imagine they're quoting something you wrote. Wow, losing pussy to a guy.

like, I'm Rick James. Hypothetically. Hypothetically. Holy shit. If you can imagine... I didn't even consider there's a... Yeah, there's a generation of guys saying they're funny because of your jokes

is awesome. Uh-huh. Oh, fuck, dude. So, yeah, so I don't... So you're right, like, what they consider intellectual is like, mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, it's true. So, yeah, just honestly, it's just... going to take a little more screening you have to go through that initial small talk

bullshit phase and then it's like you know see and then on the on date to maybe start floating a little more highfalutin stuff that you whatever whatever you think of is intellectual I don't know everyone has their own fucking you know uh standards for that but that's it and get to normal as soon as possible like we don't have to fucking toss ax just like some shit you're never going to do again. I like that. I like that. Yeah, that is good. But, and like, a girl can demand it because it seems unromantic if the guy pitches it, but if you're just like, let's just fucking take a walk. You're like, whoa, this girl's crazy. This manic pixie dream girl stuff. Yeah, she wants to go by the river. Yeah, and like, yeah, she has a ukulele. Well, she sucked my dick without me even

having to buy dinner. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. These are all pros. Everything you're saying is pro. And I think you'll be fine. You just might be a little in your head. look I've got a hot shit in the chamber we've gone on we've talked quite a bit this is uh this has been a great episode was it was yeah I love the the we're going to call this the never green yeah this is the never green episode

it's in the it's in the can we're going to record every other one and wherever this goes it goes god blah I got nothing to promote or I have a very important new project no idea this is great though man thanks for coming this is so much fun and I would love yeah

the in cell to is a rich vein but this is great Neil thank you so much I had a blast he has nothing to promote go check out whatever you know

just all the stuff he's done all the stuff he might do my library the library my link tree that's right we'll talk to you guys next time

bye bye we'll talk to you guys next time I don't know.