Strangers on a Bench - EPISODE 1: A Fight

Episode Date: September 30, 2024

Tom Rosenthal approaches a random stranger in a park in London and asks if he can sit down next to them and record their conversation.This is what happened!Produced by Tom RosenthalEdited by Rose De LarrabeitiMixed by Mike WoolleyTheme tune by Tom Rosenthal & Lucy RailtonIncidental music by Maddie AshmanEnd song 'Tryna Change' by Yvonne MKListen to it here : https://ffm.to/strangersonabench1Please consider following, subscribing, and do leave a review! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a go? Is there a day of the week that you favour? No. So does that mean you kind of just spring out of bed in the morning and you feel good about your life? Most days I try to, yeah, most days I try to come out of bed and feel the best. I mean, obviously depending on what happens the night before and what's going on in that period

of time in my life, I guess it can waver. But most days, you're grateful to be seeing the light of day the next day. So yeah, it's nice. I had someone, which I interview for this, every day, as soon as they got up, they just said thank you. Yeah, that's beautiful. Because they really liked it. As a way to start the day.

It seems like a lovely thing to do, right? Yeah, nice beautiful thing. What are you most excited about at the moment? Probably, I'd say it's basketball again. I'm a big basketball player and I've recently kind of got back into it. I've been playing every day for the past two weeks now and that was like, you know, as a teenager that was probably my biggest passion. So I tried to follow that dream and got injured. I wanted to go to America to play in the NBA professionally. And ironically enough, I was voted in my yearbook, you know, most likely to go to the NBA, but

it never happened. This bird's been trying to court this lady. He's been trying to court every lady. I just noticed him because he's the biggest bird. He's got the biggest mane and stuff. Yeah, the part he's puffing out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, so I really wanted to go to play professionally in America, but it didn't happen.

So I kind of just gave that dream up, to be fair. Tell me about what is, to you, the beauty of basketball. Well, I don't know. So there's a saying that, like, it's a big saying in the basketball community, ball is life. It's like a weird philosophy to adopt. But everyone that I've known that's like taking basketball seriously has adopted that saying and like it kind of embodies what basketball is for like a real basketball player or a person that yeah a person that plays it a person that enjoys it watching it I don't know I think um first of all like in playing it it's a very intense game

I've read a lot of eastern philosophy in my time and and I like samurais and stuff and I kind of like relate a basketball match to like a samurai fight like a duel like it doesn't have to be serious but I mean if you want to take it serious it can be really competitive it can be really engaging and I find that super rewarding but maybe because my dad also played it when he was younger and I maybe wanted to emulate a bit of what I'd heard about him because I never really met my dad also played it when he was younger and I maybe wanted to emulate a bit of what I'd heard about him because I never really met my dad. So I really wanted to like, you know, just maybe that was a bit of it.

I don't know. Yeah. Can I ask you a question about your dad? Yeah, sure. Yeah, sure. So you haven't met him? No, he went to prison when I was like three months old. Yeah, he went to prison early in my life.

So I have no memories of as well what pictures. And you know anything about his whereabouts now no no I did I think um apparently what happened was I got sectioned probably 2020 and apparently before I got sectioned he called me and I was just not trying to pick up his calls I was just like to all my family members that were telling me like you know your dad's calling you etc I was just like berating him to them and just saying I want no contact with him. And yeah, that being said, like I also now have been to prison myself and like I've recently come out like three months ago now. Yeah, I was there for a year and two months and yeah, I've kind of

just like, I don't know, that gave me a new kind of perspective on just appreciation for things, gratitude for things. So like I think at that time I was very like hurt by you know the fact that I didn't have an opportunity to get to know him as a kid so I think I kind of took that out on him in that moment by not wanting to build a relationship with him but since coming out and since even inside I said to myself you know I need to kind of take every aspect of life that I can grasp and just be grateful for and take it like you it with gratitude and love and acceptance and stuff. So is there any chance to see him? Yeah, I'm sure there is. I don't have his contact details, I think my mum does at one point.

I probably could reach out to him and I do plan on hopefully. I'm just trying to at this point just kind of level myself out and ground myself and kind of like figure out what I'm doing with myself before I then pursue relations with other people. I understand. Like that's a big deal to me. I often think, so I've got a couple of daughters. Yeah that's beautiful. And it's hard sometimes to you know you think how do you change someone? It's a sometimes to... You know, you think, how do you change someone? It's a fascinating thing, like, when does someone change? And there's a great quote from Nietzsche about, like, if you want to change a man, you've got to start with his grandmother.

I've never heard anything like that. Because it goes so far back. And it's so interesting, you know, you're saying your father was in prison, and then you've been to prison. My older brother's apparently in prison now. I've only met my older brother once. So basically at some point someone's got to break the chain. I often think about that, these various events happen and then someone's got to find a way to stop that. 100%. I hope and pray that that can be like my kids to be fair

because I do not want them to see that part of society, that part of life. Like people in there telling me that this is a life for no one and 100% it's not a life for anyone. It's not like, I mean, who wouldn't want to be in a park, just sit down and be free and be able to do what they want to do. Do you mind me asking what prison was like for you? So when I got out, I think two days later I went to see my grandparents in Birmingham and I remember just crying the whole time going there on the motorway when my mum was driving me there, I was crying.

And yeah, I was playing with my baby cousin while I was there, I couldn't stop crying. I don't know, it was super hard. My granddad said to me afterwards a couple of weeks later that he'd like, when he called me up, he just said, you know, when I saw you last time, it looked like you'd been through some shit. But I think it was just the contrast of like, you know, being free, having that time spent in there, it was a lot to bear, it was a lot to like comprehend.

And like I said, I've been out for three months, I'm still kind of trying to get used to it. I'm still trying to really just understand what it means to be free, what it means to be liberated. I don't know, I think the stigma about prison, and I've said this to loads of people, the stigma about prison is that it's full of tough people. I saw this great quote when I was in there,

I said, just because you've done bad things doesn't mean you're a bad person. That stuck with me when I was in there, because I was you know, just because you've done bad things doesn't mean you're a bad person. That stuck with me when I was in there because I was like, yo, like, that's really true. Like, I mean, what makes someone a better person at one point than they were at another point? Inside, it was like everyone in there, besides your one, two, like, kind of cunts, really, everyone in there was really uplifting, really, like, you know, supportive of each other because, like, no one wants to be here and people in prison they don't make anyone's time harder and I think that is like a beautiful thing for me to realize that like you know that I kind of want to carry on outside it's hard to do outside though because like I find

that outside of prison like people are ignorant and like I mean ignorance is blissful but like it's blissful to the person practicing the ignorance and it's not blissful to everyone else I mean mean, we all practise ignorance, to be fair. What was a typical day like for you there? Okay, so the last prison I was in, I was in Leicester. I think it's the most new prison in the country, to be fair. And it was single cell, so you're by yourself in a cell. It's a tiny room, kind of like a college dormitory

or something like that. You've got a telly, you've got a kettle. They're the things they supply you with. I had a shower myself so I didn't have to actually go outside to shower. They open your doors at 7.30, no, yeah 7.30. I'd be awake from before they've opened the door so I wake up pretty early. And yeah, I'm outside first thing really, trying to socialise, trying to connect with people. And most of the time everyone's sleeping still so I'm just there, just like kind of doing my daily tasks, I guess.

Like, you know, I might, let's say I've got some washing to do. Like, I'm like, you know, how you just saw me today, I'm playing my music. I'm that person that 24 seven, no matter what I'm doing, either headphones or out loud, music's always around me. It really calms me the fuck down. So like, yeah, I'm, let's say 8.30 now you can go to

your activities in the prison and whatnot. I was doing an art class in the afternoon and I was also doing a music course, like a music production course in the mornings. Come back to the wing, eat my lunch, get banged up again for another hour and you come out maybe 1.30 then back to the course you come back to the wing at maybe five that's to do like roll check to make sure everyone's in and you come out you get your dinner and then you're out from dinner time until maybe uh like 7.15 and then 7.15 end of the day you're banged up until the next morning. And that was basically a day. But like I said, it was for the most part,

I was trying to socialize as much as possible, really listen to music as much as possible, just enjoy myself as much as possible, uplift people as much as possible, be uplifted as much as possible, learn as much as possible. Crazy. Shit time though, shit time. Shit time, shit time.

Yeah, I mean. And that, like I said, that in terms of like prison, like I was in South London, in prison in South London before I got there, and that was similar, it was double cell, so like just sharing a space with someone out there, that in itself is daunting because this isn't something that you know, this isn't something that you've ever met before, this is something that you have to, you know, accept and you have to hope that it met before, this is something that you have to accept and you have to hope that accepts you and you have to consider and whatnot. And there's one TV.

Yeah. And you can't play these. So you've got to compromise. You have to compromise. You've got to figure out. You have to compromise. Who was this person? I mean, I don't say any names or anything, but what were they like? My last cellmate, he was an older gentleman. He was a lovely guy. He was in his early 50s.

He'd done it a longer time than me, so I I think he done like three years in there and that was his first time in prison as well so like he was used to it and stuff and I like he had ten kids and he would ring his missus every night at 7 o'clock yeah he was just lovely though he was really supportive with this guy yeah did you have any kind of I guess you know you're spending so much time together right like did you develop any kind of rituals between the two of you? Yeah, yeah. In this prison I was at, we'd get banged up at six. As soon as we were banged up for Channel 4, Simpsons, I'd watch Simpsons.

I've got little Bart Simpson on my neck tattooed. Ah, crazy. I'd watch Simpsons all the time. He was like, for lack of a better term, a homebody. So he didn't want to engage with anyone. He just said, you know what, their vibrations, their energy just fucking depresses me. I don't want to be around it. So he would just stay in the cell and sometimes I'd be out of the cell and I'd come back in now full bang up and he would already have The Simpsons on. And yeah, that was a

nice routine I'd go in. Would you like to keep in touch with him? Do you feel like like once you've left prison, it's like there's no, I mean, you feel like you want to distance yourself from everything in there? 100%, 100%, 100%. I would have kept in touch with him because he did like, you know, we spoke about keeping in touch, but I got moved prison. So like he was working in the kitchen at that point and like they just come to my door in the morning and said, like, you know,

you're going to Leicester. I was like, I can't even tell him, say bye to him. So I just wrote him a note and just put my number on the note. I don't know if he's got it, I don't know if he's going to reach out to me. What did the note say? Like I said, just being grateful for him and his graciousness. He was super lovely. So I was just trying to show him appreciation.

Max! Max! Maxie! Maxy, come back please. Come on Max, you're a champion. Can I ask what you did to get into a fight? What GBH? Can you tell me about the fight? Yes, it was about a girl. It was about a girl? It was about a girl, my girlfriend at the time. She was messing with someone and I'd basically turn up at her house and seen her with the

person I'd assumed she was messing with and I kind of just flipped out and got into a fight with her. So before this you were together? Yeah, for five years. Oh for five years, that's quite a long time. She lived with me and then she moved out. She lived with me again and then she moved out again. And it was very up and down, it was stupid, yeah.

And yeah, like, how often do you think about that moment? Like, what's the kind of- Oh, super, all the time. I mean, not necessarily the moment, more the relationship, because I don't want to dwell on the negative, but I think about like, you know, just for the most part, it was night she was gonna come over to my house

she didn't come over i went over to her house now and then yeah like it was just that one decision i thought like you know if i didn't actually go there maybe i wouldn't have been arrested maybe i wouldn't have been in prison and like maybe my life would be completely different maybe we'd still be together probably not but like i don't know, just that. What would happen if you saw him again? I'd probably apologise to him. I'd want to extend my condolences for how I've treated him and for my actions that night.

Because he didn't deserve that, no one deserves that. So you're now focused on making some dosh? Yeah, really. And how are you going to do it? No idea, man. No idea, no idea. That's the bane of 2024 living. I hate the fact that to survive, you have to really engage in this kind of like lifestyle of going to work and who who who's made this rule that you need to go to work to

eat and drink and like not have shelter like it's really absurd to me like it is absurd really but it's it's the facts of life at this point yeah you've got any idea what if you could start something up? What would you start up of your own accord? To finance the financial benefit myself? Yeah. Well, I've been making music now for probably three years, let's say two years, three years. And I think I've made like, you know, five pound from it. Ever. Probably five more than nothing. Yeah, 100%. And it's like, when you start a venture like that, it's not really about the monetary gain that you can get from it. I'd make multiple songs a day just because I was passionate about music.

And for me, it would have to be music. Recently, I've kind of fell out of love with creating music, though. I think... Why? I don't know, man. Like, I'm trying to grasp it. I've been trying to grasp it for the past couple of weeks. I sold my sampler now.

My sampler was like a few thousand pound sampler. I sold it just because I need to survive. I think I can't really allow myself to sit down and focus on enjoyment. I think I have to be strict with myself and say to myself, okay, even if you do a mundane job for the time being, at least then once I do find that I'm comfortable and sustainable in like you know how I'm living then I can you know maybe go back to it and you know enjoy it. Do you sing as well?

No, no, no. I write poetry but like I have never tried to incorporate any poetry into any of my beats and stuff. Yeah, interesting. I mean what I would say is I think if you do poetry, you've got these two forces. So you've got the poetry and you've got the music. It sounds like they've got to come together, no? Yeah, yeah. That's kind of how great songs work, on the whole.

Yeah, yeah, I know, I know. Not always, but it's a good start. Yeah, no doubt, definitely. It's scary for me, that is scary for me, just because I feel like I don't want to be misunderstood, I guess. Yeah, but also, you've experienced some really potent things. Yeah, for sure. And a lot of people haven't. And you yourself have been tested emotionally so much more than the average person, right? Especially at your age. Yeah, I suppose. than the average person, right? Especially at your age. So it's like, you've got a lot to say.

So I would say like, you know, there's some, there's a lot you could do for other people in that as well. Like it's not, you know, and it's just about like jumping, I suppose. Maybe, maybe one day, maybe one day, maybe one day. I definitely think you should do it. Yeah, thank you. Is there anything I could do to encourage you further? Um, no, it was been lovely. Like's been lovely. It's been very affirming. I want to write a book, to be fair with you. That's probably going to be my magnus opus, hopefully, to write a book.

Maybe in the interim I'll make some songs and rhyme up or whatever. So the book, if you want to write a book, what's the book? I don't know. So I've got notebooks, finished multiple notebooks of just ranting about, like you said, the experiences I've had really and how it's affected me, what I think about it. I think for me the book it's kind of going to be about society in like the modern day how that is affecting people and how that has affected me and like what my experiences think basically is what I'm trying to do a lot of people

I've talked to so far what seems to be like such a common thread that's come up is like where's it all going so wrong if I ask you where are we all going a bit wrong, especially in terms of young people, which you are, what would you say? Sure. So this is kind of a big thing for me, I guess, in terms of like I don't really get on with a lot of young people.

I mean people my age, for the most part, like teenagers and young people. There's this weird like ideology that you have to kind of be super strong. I guess strong you can use is synonymous with hard or whatever but like that a lot of kids kind of have this ideology that they have to be tough. I think that's bullshit. I think you should be vulnerable, You should be taught to be vulnerable. You should accept people's vulnerability, like this online culture.

Like I grew up in like, you know, the midst of online becoming like popular. Like when I was a kid, kid, there wasn't any social media. But now every kid has it. Every fucking adult has it. Everyone's on it. Everyone's, you know, engaging with it. And even now, like there's a there's a school outside of where I live and it says, I was so amazed when I saw this, it made me laugh because I think it's absurd that they even got to put this, but there's a sign outside the school that has like, it's for parents and it says, please, when you're picking up your kids, don't be on your phones. I was just thinking, the fact that you've got to tell adults this, adults with kids

not to go on their phone when they're picking up their kids, it's crazy. And I told my mum about it and she said that was a thing. I didn't have that when I was in school. And so that's crazy, though. It's really, really weird. It's really weird the trajectory that we're going in. What is your relationship with your mother like? It's really weird because it's like I'm a real mother's boy.

But at the same time, she kicked me out when I was 18 for smoking weed. I started smoking weed when I was, let's say, 14. I probably started properly smoking weed when I was 16. So like most days, I guess, she just didn't think it was good for me and just didn't agree with me doing that and said, you know what, if you're going to be destructive to yourself, I'm not going to be a part of it, I guess. And she kicked me out when I was like 18.

So just before the new year, when I was turning 19, the next year she kicked me out and I had to go to a hostel by myself and whatnot and I lived in hostel for maybe two years and then I got my flat in like my estate where I grew up actually so my mum lives down the road from me so like I literally I came from my house just now to be fair so it's really weird it's a weird dynamic because like I feel really hurt by her and abandoned I guess but at the same time like I'm very grateful as well because I wouldn't be here talking to you wouldn't be here enjoying life and like everything if that didn't happen so how did you kind of fix it?

Fix like the relationship? Yeah, it didn't just chuck you out. Oh yeah. And then you felt bad about that. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And so how did that come back round to feeling better? I think it was just probably like my willingness to accept the present and accept the past and just accept like, you know, what's happened really and where I am and to be grateful for it. We still

have arguments and still like struggle to communicate. I think even like a couple weeks ago I cut her off and said to her you know I'm never speaking to you again and like stuff so like yeah life's completely filled up and down. But it's in a good better place now? Yeah for sure for sure for sure for sure like I said I literally went to her house to make breakfast for myself, just because I had no food in my house. I was like, you know, I need to walk down the road

and make some breakfast. Sat there with her for a bit, so it's alright, and then like, yeah. Left and came here to read some books, really, and stuff. Yeah, showed her the books I've got, because she loves books and stuff. Oh, lovely. Yeah, man.

What's a good breakfast for you these days? I'm a big foodie, man. I think, so today I made like, it's really weird making something like mushrooms, tuna. What's a good breakfast for you these days? I'm a big foodie man. So today I made like, it's really weird, I made like mushrooms, tuna with noodles and I had loads of sauces and seasoning on the mushrooms and tried to make my own weird stuff. Amazing. Very experimental with my food. I'm also a huge mushroom fan.

Yeah I love mushrooms. Very weirdly the last person I just thought to also be bigger mushrooms. Yeah mushrooms are... Maybe I've got like a mushroom set that I'm picking up on. You mentioned that you hadn't met your brother or you hadn't spoken to your brother, is that right? I think I met my brother when I was 10 years old maybe. Like I'd met him once, he came over to my nan's house and then like I'd never heard from him again. And I think my mum told me maybe a couple of years ago that he's in prison, so I don't know if he's still there.

But yeah, I've got a young brother that's been my brother, my real actual family for my whole life. Did you get on with him okay? Yeah for sure. He's in America right now actually. He went to Eton. Oh wow. He went to Eton. He got a scholarship to go to Eton. He's in America on a scholarship in California. I'm doing rowing and stuff so yeah. He's doing well for himself. So yeah, super happy for him. That's lovely.

Super contrast of like your life and stuff like me in prison, him in Eton and going to America and stuff. Yeah, that's life. For sure man. Do you feel any sense of like competition with him at all? No, not at all. I'm super proud of him. Like he came to visit me one time when I was in prison and like for Christmas really.

Like my mum's there, he's there. And I think I asked them a fucking weird ass question. I just said to them like, do you guys find it that it that like you know can you like silence your thoughts and stuff and he just said something like you know he's my brother so like you know i'm the same i don't know that that was a really beautiful moment for me that like you know he he feels that connected to me i feel no competition there he inspires me if anything like he inspires me to be the best version of myself he's probably one of my biggest inspirations of all time so yeah beautiful thank you this is a kind of a weird non-question question but if you could ask yourself a question and answer it for now as in like is anything you like you'd like to ask yourself and then try and answer it

i mean it's a bit of a hard one it's a bit of a funny one, isn't it? That's a hard one. Probably like in just sitting here today, I've asked myself a question. I was reading this book called the Book of Tea and that's like a Eastern philosophical book. And a quote I wrote down was, "'We have created a harmony "'which is weak against aggression.'"

That is a quote that stood out to me. So I guess I would ask ask myself how can you be stronger against aggression like how do you be how do you live in harmony against aggression and stuff harmony is you kind of don't associate that with aggression so like how can you harmonize stuff and you know live in a world that is aggressive and I don't know how to even start answering that. It's good to have a starting point. For sure. I noticed in your book two playing cards. Can I ask you about what those are?

So this is a new notebook I found in my cupboard today and I wanted to put some stuff in it, just some sentimental stuff in it. My lucky number is three. I said to myself, the first three cards that I pull out of this deck, I'll put in this notebook. Well, the first one was the joker, the second one was the eight, and the third one was the queen. I think they perfectly describe me to be fair. So like joker, like I like to have fun and laugh and shit. Eight, I guess for me, that's also a lucky number for me. I associate that with infinity and everlasting Eight, I guess for me that's also a lucky number for me. I associate that with affinity and everlastingness I guess and then queen I associate that with femininity. I like

feminine stuff so yeah. That's wonderful. Yeah thank you man. Oh that's so cool. Is there anything that, you know we all have these things that are invisible that we carry with us. People would never normally see or know about you. Do you wish people could see something of you? Do you wish you could tell people about you? Do you know what I mean? I don't know. I was at someone's house probably a couple of weeks ago and they said like they were on the train or they were trying to get on the train and they were just surrounded by people and everyone just looked pissed off and just like you know, they just didn't look happy with their life they just didn't look like they were having fun with their life, they didn't look like they understood how to have fun

I don't know if you've heard the saying like you can only like reach someone as far as they've like reached themselves. Even if you try to show someone the utmost amount of love, they can only you know love you back as much as they have loved themselves back and I'm not aware of how much someone's been in need of love. I'm not aware of how much someone's accepted love for themselves or loving their life and stuff so like when I was first presented with the notion that people are hard to love, I was like, no, they're not. I think that just depends on who you are in relation to them. And I think that's that would be what I'd like to change about how people perceive me. Maybe like I think people look at me as a person and they kind of like see a man first and foremost, see my race after that.

And then like, you know, see maybe the clothes I'm wearing off that see how i'm acting off that and like these are all things in which they can judge me on and i think like i was so kind of just focused on loving people and being a being of love that like i don't know i know i've met a person full of violence and like now having this aspect of unconditional love for everything but I think that was a big thing for me even in like going to prison and stuff because the reason I went in is because I tried to control the circumstance and if I just you know accepted that I couldn't control the circumstance and existed in love for myself enough love for myself that I didn't react in a way in which wasn't going to be detrimental to myself then yeah my life would

have been completely different. But, like, everything happens for a reason. So, like, maybe that was the reason for me to learn that lesson. Good answer. Thank you, my brother. I appreciate that. Let's go for the last question for you, which is the same as everyone gets.

But the question is, what are you going to do next? OK. Today I'm going to try to... I don't know what time it is now. 4.18. 4.18, okay cool. So I'm going to try to finish my book, well finish as much as I can of my book. I'll go back to my local park and I'll play some basketball hopefully with my friends or practice by myself and then go home, speak to a couple of my friends and watch some anime

try to clean my house as well that's my plans for the rest of the day and then in the grand scheme of things what's my plans my plans are i guess to just like i said try to like consist with love and bring love to everyone i meet and try to you know be accepting of what love i can receive and what love i can give perfect thanks so much for talking to me. Thank you so much for talking to me. No, thank you so much, my bro. It's been such a pleasure. Thank you. I would be better If somebody showed me how

I would be smarter If somebody let me out I would be kinder If these weren't the cars I was dealt I would be stronger If I knew how to ask for help But I think I'm done all the pain and the illusions. illusions Cause in the end I'm the one

who loses I'm trying to change I'm trying to grow my mind Telling me yes My heart's telling me no Still I'm trying to still I'm trying to change.

I'm trying to grow. My heart's telling me yes. My mind's telling me no. I'm trying to change. Thank you.