Strangers on a Bench - EPISODE 100: Don't Ever Stop Dreaming

Episode Date: August 10, 2026

Tom Rosenthal approaches a stranger on a park bench and asks if he can sit down next to them and record their conversation.This is what happened! Produced by Tom RosenthalEdited by Rose De LarrabeitiMixed by Mike WoolleyTheme tune by Tom Rosenthal & Lucy Railton Incidental music by Maddie AshmanEnd song : 'Don't Ever Stop Dreaming' by Tom Rosenthal, featuring Rachel Kitchlew on the harp.Stream it here : https://ffm.to/donteverstopdreamingListen to all the end songs featured on the podcast (so far) on one handy playlist :https://ffm.to/soabendsongs————————————————————————————Instagram : @strangersonabench Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, so it to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench, where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a go? Are you from the BBC? I'm not from the BBC.

Oh, you don't have to hold this, but you can just drop it. Yeah, no, I'm curious. I mean, you can hold it if you want. Make sure that and steal it from you. You can. We haven't had a theft yet. I've got like the idea of someone just running down the beach. A kit was stolen and that's the last of the podcast and I was just shouting no. Have you ever stolen anything? Of course. What?

Sweets, obviously. Ah, it's classic. Anything more than sweets? I went to somebody else's orchards and stole pears and apples, raspberries. Somebody else's orchards. What a plentiful orchard? Nice stuff. Was this recently? No.

No. Do you wish you still have the stealing energy in your life? Okay, well let's clarify stealing and wanting to have something which doesn't belong to you. I'm just reading a book on gardens and then she says, well, Earth and gardens should belong to everyone. So you'll say who owns anything?

And what is ownership? Kind of. But I wouldn't steal this because it will really hurt you if you lost your equipment. I've had things stolen from me. What's been stolen for me? Well, I've a couple of scooters. I lived in London for many years.

It's like 20 something years ago. I had this really cute Japanese Honda. It looked like a Barbie little thing, on small wheels, 49cc. And it got stolen on a day, and I lived in North London. I had an interview in central London, big portfolio to go around,

and a sewing machine. The scooter was big in nine. to hold my sewing machine between my legs and then I reported it to the police station and later on they said like well we know who did it and we have this program for young people you have to help me because I'm rehabilitation rehabilitation and I said yeah go on yeah let's do this so they prepared me and said look you just you cannot be angry at this person but let's just have a conversation and tell them about your day

And this young lad came over with the protection and stuff. Oh, they brought around this person. Yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. With the scooter as well? No, the scooter's gone. No, it's completely. I mean, it's a joy ride.

And I said, did you really have fun on that night? And he said, yes, ma'am, well, no, mom. And I said, do you want to hear about my day? I said, I lost a day, you know, figuring out what to do. I was a poor artist. Of course I couldn't afford to get a taxi. and drive me over sewing machine and a portfolio. You know, I could be your mom.

Or potentially, I could have been your mom. Just imagine your mother's day. If something like this happened to your mother, he started crying. Oh, whoa. Well, because he probably had feelings for his mom. Well done by you there. Kind of.

But that's how I, you know, I'm not a nasty person. I might do silly things to people, but I wouldn't. never there you go there is actually a bit of a system to this whole interview thing I hope there is

chassis chat you hope they there better be a system yeah do you like systems a systems person no you hate them we don't believe in possessions I do no no no come on I do I'm very systematic

I like order I organise chaos I work in India lot and that's just like no system and then I'm like okay I start and I finish and I have what I need that's an example of organizing chaos and I'm you know freelance person I work as a freelance mm same you have to you have to organize I have to wake up right I have to come my favorite job that mm-hmm that's one of my favorite fantastic I think I saw a bit of your system earlier how was my

What did you see in my system? Because I thought, because you were by the, you were doing various things with your body by the sea. That's why I come here. You look like, not that I was like, I haven't been watching you for hours, by the way. Like you're doing what I consider kind of quite routine patterns behaviours. Oh, okay. Is that a thing fair? Well, because I walk barefoot.

If you take your shoes off, you'd be doing the same. Oh, gosh. You have to balance, you know, when you step on a pebble here and it hurts you, go like that. go like that. So I'm not dancing. If I was in your trainers I'd be just walking. So you're ready for this first question? I guess. What do you think it's going to be? Just don't ask me what I do for living. No, no, no, no. You know what? My least favourite question. Yeah, exactly. You are going to be. I'm never going to ask someone that. It is, do you have a favourite day of the week? Well, no and yes. Give me

both? I like surprises and I'm very curious. So my favourite day in a week is a day when lots of things feel really nice and I would say oh that's a favorite day. It's got a non-committal answer there. So there's no set favorite that just feels good. Okay well when you wake up it's a Wednesday this feels good. No no a day is favorite once the day is done. Oh okay. experience of that day. Yeah. But there's not one that you're aligned with.

Oh, my Wednesdays. Oh, my Saturdays. No. A day can be great when unexpectedly something brilliant just happens. Like now? Like this.

Well, this will be a good day. I'll remember this. It's going to be a good day. Yeah. Friday I met this guy on the beach and he had this fancy equipment. Had you asked me this question when I was a child

and it would have been much easier. Of course, I would say, hate Sundays' church. Head Monday School. Maybe it's our job as humans to not have a favourite day eventually. I think because it's expected

it will happen again and the more we expect the less chance of it to happen. So Sunday with church what is your church now? Garden and swim and friends loving life. When was the last

when we set foot in a church? Sometimes when I'm in Italy I walk in because it's so hot outside and you know there's like always marble on the floor so just take your shoes

of and if nobody's watching you can lie on the floor roll around well kind of you know get cooler when you were little when you were in the church

on a Sunday and you were looking around what were you thinking boring do you remember Boring, scary. So we know you a bit now and we know that you would have

yeah, you would have thought boring and then you would have made it more exciting for yourself, surely. I never did. It was, it was paralyzing. It was painful. How did you escape? We had to suffer through 45 minutes

and, you know, we had to go to confession thing. Did you confess anything? Of course. And you know, I said, you said anything every week? I don't know, it's so long ago. I left church when I was 14 years old and I became vegetarian. For some reason, I stopped one for another.

That's the way it goes, no? Yeah, I think... So 14, why 14? I mean, you know, I remember like asking a priest once, I said like, well, but surely Mary couldn't have been a virgin and then give birth and then why all the church art is so sad, they all look so sad. sad, but you know, you listen to what they say and you should be, there should be a sense of happiness and why should one feel guilty for being alive and I'm a child, like, I don't think

what I do is sinful. So you have that awareness. That was good. You actually said that at the time. Really? Yeah, I said, I'm very curious, you know. So if I go over a fence and I steal apples, I mean, is this really a sin? I mean, I just want to eat an apple or sweet raspberries. You know, I mean, the shit they punish you for when you're a child. When you did finally leave, the church, yeah. Did anyone mind? Well, I think it must have been another scene, so I'm just going to check what's the time now, because I have.

What have you got to go to? Bed delivery. You've got a bed delivery? Yeah, it's fine. Okay, that's good. I'm just there. I asked a question again. Oh, this is somebody mine.

So it must have been sinful because I didn't want my parents to know. So on a Sunday I would go up to my friend's house and stay with them for a couple of hours. Hang on, they didn't even go, their parents, why didn't they not go with you? Because at that age, you would go alone, but you would go.

So it was easy then to scyve off? Yeah, exactly. Do you remember what you did in those, on that Sunday? They probably played music. I was a teenager in the 80s, so we had George Michael on the wall, Madonna, some punk rock. I'm from Poland, so lots of Polish punk rock, lots of music. So we probably just played records.

And her father was a really strict communist, and my dad was active, you know, like in Solidarno, the movement which actually brought communism to end. So we knew that we couldn't speak politics. And, you know, I mean, we slept on. illegal pamphlet, you know, my dad would distribute stuff around, like really political involvement. And we were just girls. We probably spoke about, you know, clouds and boys and music and where's the next disco

and stuff like that. So that was better than God and suffering for poor Jesus, who couldn't have been born by Mary without having sex. Tell me something. Yeah. How long have you got an ab where you have to go? I tell you what, I have. I have 12 minutes.

Okay. Can I propose something to you? Yeah. I would like to talk to you more. I'm going to be here all day. Would you consider coming back and continuing our conversation further? But tell me a little bit more about this business. What are you selling?

This business? What's your church? You know what, you know what you're like this? Because, well, first, on the selling front, I would say, not to brag too much about this podcast, I would guess with a fair degree of certainty, one of the more, you can walk about, you can walk away, you can just run away.

I'm the first one, I'll be the first one. You told me. You told me, I'm the first. Do a sprint, see what happens. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, you can. No, no, go on. With a fair amount of certainty, I can say,

It's the most listened to podcast that doesn't have adverts. Brilliant. So I was not selling anything. And it deliberately doesn't because I feel like the last people I want to exploit the people I talk to. And so there's no, there's that. I don't mind you can say. But no, no, but there's no, but there's no money in it at all. Yeah, I can talk to you.

That's great. Okay. Should we call this part one and then we'll just meet up later? You know, you're going to have a whole... I mean you can have a whole day and then you're going to be favorite day because I'm having really nice bed delivered handmade proper oh wow shopshire where all the best beds are made apparently amazing I'm gonna go okay okay what time do you want to meet later uh maybe six perfect you shake on it okay shake on it where are we going to meet here here again six o'clock this is an arrangement without any text messaging It's just a human arrangement.

I go sharp, fine. It's a huge one. It's a huge one. I will show up. Yeah. Okay. So it's got to that time and I can't see her anywhere. I'm now starting to doubt the bit that we thought we would meet on.

Oh God. Is she even going to turn up? That's the question. What is life when you're waiting for a... for a Polish woman who you met that morning. What is life? And you don't know if she's going to turn up. So we found each other again.

Yeah. We've had our big gap. Yeah, let's see. I mean, it was in doubt. I was starting to get, too honest, I was starting to get a bit worried. Did you worry a lot? Do I worry a lot generally?

No, no. I worried about this because I just thought, I enjoy talking to you this morning. I was hoping you were going to come back. And so there was a small bit of fear. Yeah. Came in. But anyway, we got there.

We got it. We made it. We should be celebrating, really. So what can I tell you? And how much time do we have? Because I have about... Oh, not another deadline. This is a Friday evening.

Let's say an hour. Okay. Let's do what we can. Okay, so run me through your day. You need my day. Well, you know, we need to know what happened in between the two meetings. Oh, really? Yeah. The bed came.

Did you lie down in it straight away? Not yet. They were very late and they were the delivery guys were from India. So that was really nice. I had the chat with complete strangers. Oh, how lovely? So how long were they in the house for? Maybe half an hour. Okay. Lovely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I had friends earlier.

The delivery had been delayed about three times today. So my friends... So you went to the friend of the friend of the friend. after me. Yeah. You haven't tried... This is really an investigation. I promise you the best out of life.

Listen. So my friend's boyfriend... Yeah. I had some textiles with me. And I haven't seen him for a couple of years. And Don says like, oh, congratulations on this and this. And I'm like, oh, congratulations on... I'm not going to...

But I'm going to say, because you ask me about a day. Yeah. I'm not just dropping names. You ask me, there you go. So I said, well, congratulations on President Barack Obama. And he says, oh, you know, I'm, yeah, yeah, really nice guy. So, how, you're, you're congratulating this friend. Yeah, yeah.

On being, on doing something with Obama. We don't know what. But something. My friend's boyfriend is his sound recorder. He's a sound recorder. He's a sound director of sound. Oh, okay. He records sound.

He records sound? Yeah. Like me. Yeah. I'm not making it up. You did ask me for my day. No, no, no, no. Look, you can, I believe you.

I believe you. So your friend's boyfriend is a sound record and he's recorded Obama. Yeah. Yeah, you see, look, wow. Not just that. Not just that. This happened a year ago very close to my hometown in Poland. Okay, start again.

Not in London. Not in Washington. You're congratulating for something that happened a year ago. Yeah, because I haven't seen him. And so, and this friend of yours recorded him. In Poznan. Right. And I can interview?

Well... Be careful, what do you ask for? It's just going to be an hour of you talking about your friend meeting Obama. You asked me for... No, no, I did, I did ask, I did ask, and you're giving it to me. Okay, so how... tell me what he did. So he was in Poznan because his friend, who's a filmmaker, he's making a documentary about Barack Obama. So he traveled with Barack to different locations last year.

last year yeah fantastic and then after delivery guys you haven't even like you haven't laid down on this bed no I thought that would be the first thing you would do no you'd be how long have you waiting for this bed eight or nine weeks you're waiting for you're very patient I couldn't because where I live there's a big there's a like a sinkhole in the road a sink hole that's quite exciting one day it's like it just went That's exciting. And it's been really, really neglected. And today, electricians came and said, like, well, actually, there's a cable is trapped there

and we have to cut your electricity off. So we have no electricity today. Very exciting days. Wow, the sinkhole. Yeah. At least you weren't in that particular spot when it, they can be enormous. Well, because it just goes and there's like another life. And make sure the fragility of the earth.

It could just collapse underneath us. Well, this town shouldn't even be here. It's a concept. It's a concept. Isn't every town a concept? But this particular piece of land, I mean, St. Leonard's is developers. They dreamt it up. They wanted to have Regent's Park on the coast.

And you're just living in a dream now of some long-dead person. This is 200 years ago. You're living the dream of a long-dead person. There you go. With a single. And a strange conversation with really expensive equipment. I think I might take it how... You've got to run.

You've got to run with it. You've got to run with it. So the sinkhole... Do you not asking anything specific? What do you mean I'm not asking? I don't know. You're interrogating me about how... I don't know.

Do you want to ask something? Well, because you said that there's a structure. Conversations usually have a... You have a structure. There's no structure. Okay. But also you've got to... But work up to...

You know, it's an arc. It's not a... It's not a jump. Okay. It's a journey. It's a journey. You're not sure. I was going to ask you about sync.

You know my question, Katie, about sinkholes? No. My question was, if you were over that sinkhole and it, it went, you could be injured or dead or whatever. I like the moments when you realize the virginity of what's around you. When was the last moment? You were like, oh wow, everything is very fragile. I guess when I see my mother, who was 83, every time I see. every time I see her.

And I adore, I love my mom. And I look at this elderly lady. And I guess it's fragility of someone you really love who is old. Yeah. So it's not about my own fragility. And I was in, I had a car crash about a year and a half ago. And I got over that really quickly. The next day.

Yeah, because nothing really happened apart from like insurance, blah, blah, blah, blah. Was it a bad crash? This way. Yeah, I was driving in Poland. And it was the first day of snow. And I'm okay, you know, I can drive in snow. But because it was the first day, it's dodgy. It's really dangerous.

Because don't quite, like, the wheels don't understand it yet. Is it the snow? Is it ice? No one understands what's going on. Yeah, and then I couldn't break, and the person couldn't break. It hit me here. And the shock of it was that, oh, so this is how you can die. You're like, this is how it could happen, be to be.

This is how this can happen. Yeah, the snap of the fingers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I knew exactly what was going to happen. I know this sounds spooky, but lots of people, when they are in various accidents, they say you could almost see it happening. It's that split moment, and it's not even in our time. It's in different dimension, probably.

In that other dimension you're talking about, can you try and describe where your mind kind of went? What was that thought? Clarity. It's almost like there's extra time for you to be aware that this is happening. And I thought, okay, everybody is driving really slowly, so I can also drive really slowly and pretend that nothing really happened.

So I drove back to moms. I got there. I started feeling really tired. And I think when you are in a situation like this, the initial shock is that everything will happen fine. And I just had to decide not to tell mum because it was evening. She just worried. And she wouldn't sleep.

I was like, she doesn't need that piece of information. So next day when I woke up, I had loads of pain everywhere. I was in like... So your body just went into so like in... Yeah, suddenly it was like... Yeah, and then it was like kaput. Yeah. So...

And then I... And then I think next day, I think when we had dinner, I said, oh, you know, I had this car accident. And I cried and she cried. But, you know, sometimes you have to fix things for others and not make a drama from like, so many people have car crashes and it's okay. But 10 months later, I was like really stiff. And I saw my face there and he's like, I don't really know what's happening. And he started interviewing me and he was like, so you had a car crash.

That's why none of it is working. None of it's working. You mentioned your mother's getting older. She is, she's 83. 83. Sweet granny. Yeah. What do you not know about her?

There are things I don't know about her which she wouldn't know now because of her memory. Oh, okay. I have really lovely relationship with her. We can ask each other everything. Literally everything. That's wonderful. But it was also really lovely about getting older is that. she remembers more things from childhood,

which she never remembered when I was a child. And also because my dad was like gone, my dad is in heaven. It's just me and mom. So it's like we have been given this extra new time together. Away from... Away from Papa. Yeah. Because I really like my mom as a human being.

She's a really nice person. And even if she wasn't my mom, she would have been a friend. That's sweet. And I discovered that some years ago. I didn't have that when I was a kid. What took you so long to discover that? Well, I left Poland. I was away for very, very, very long time.

And then I just had curiosity to find out and to get to understand my mom from a different perspective. And also when she came to London to see my life in London, and she actually understood who I am better. I took her to my studio, and she's like, oh, so that's what it means. And we have each other for each other for however long we want. Who will look after you when you're 83? Not my children. I don't want anybody to look after me.

Sorry, not your Georgia because... Because I don't have children. I don't want to be there. I hate my children. I don't really like you had children, they're not going to look after you. I don't have my own children, yeah. Should you sit there because I need some sun. It's quite, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a bit cooler now.

You can just, you take your little, you take your friend. Oh, I take a friend, yeah. You run off, you start running. You just start sprinting with your friend. Actually, death is something, at least once a week we talk to friends about death because most of our parents are either dying, will die soon. so conversations about death are actually really interesting and... So you're always talking about death?

Not always. I said maybe once a week we talk. So you think about death quite a lot. Not a lot, but... Do you think about your own death much? No, no. I mean, I... You're fresh. You are close to death when you swim in cold water. And that's where you like it.

No. Well, death is inevitable. So it just... It really is just part of life and I've not been aware of this part of life up until a few years ago when I witnessed my father's death and I had to like rejig entire life. To make sure that I have time when I can go and actually spend quality time of my mom to make sure that the last years of her life are as fun as possible. So, you know, so when I make breakfast again, it might just be the same as she had this. today, you know. We have a little dance or something, you know, we crack a joke or laugh. Is it just you? Are there siblings? No, my sister, but she's also abroad. She lives in France,

so, but we've always been this family in, you know, different countries. Yeah. Do you get on with your sister? Not very much. Oh, okay. Yeah. Do you, why? Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Oh, let me guess. Can I guess? You guess, yeah, go on. Well, so you're the talented younger sibling. You said that. It's difficult being talented, isn't it? It's hard.

It's hard to live with someone of high ability. Yeah? Yeah. No, no. I think it's just from a get-go, which you didn't get on. Yeah, it can happen. It can actually, it can totally happen. Did your father's death not bring you together?

No, it actually made it clear that we have, that we really don't have. I mean, we are really good organizing things together. There's no neglect there. You do a speech at his funeral? No, he didn't want. But it would be really nice speech. I think we'll do like a little party when my mom goes. We'll definitely have a boogie.

Lovely. That's lovely. Who would you want to do a speech at your funeral? Never thought about it. It's like I'm not interested. It's just too early. Just around the corner. Everything is tomorrow, isn't it?

Do you know what I mean? No, because I'll be once once I'm gone, I'll be just having fun somewhere else. No, in another dimension. No, I want to be like reborn someone on another planet probably or something. Okay, okay, this is good, this is good. Okay, so I'm currently reading a book about the afterlife.

No, no, no, hang on, hang on, no. Sorry. Are you making it up now? No, no, no, no, no, no, I am. Someone imagining different possibilities of different after lives, you know, not in a religious sense, just like, you imagine if there were different ones, what could they be?

Anyway, so my question to you is, if you had to invent one, what would you like it to be? I'd love to be seal or whale. Some people who actually consistently swim through cold water, through winter, you have out-of-body experience. It's kind of like you're in a head space. Dimensions kind of expand. And you feel like you are part of,

something so much greater and so much more beautiful and this kind of nirvana i mean you know it's something ecstatic wonderful and very constant it's not just for one second you kind of you have longing for it so winters can be very special here as i said i don't think much about that but i i'm very much aware how you can open your awareness and kind of like send your antennas or your drums out to like higher frequencies of functioning whales or dolphins they hear on different frequency and they feel on the skin of different frequency so that's what i would like to experience in another life the greater awareness and appreciation of how beautiful earth is, how beautiful this whole thing is. And because I'm a physical being, I'd love to be able to do all these things.

They go around the world. Dolphin business. Totally, absolutely. Dolphin or eagle, I'd love to be a big bird, like really, like, really big bird. Give you a short hand lighting, just with a... No, I've never tried. I've been a few times in the Alps. I've been on a tiny propeller, like a tiny plane. Yeah. They crash all the time, don't they? No. Well, when you hear about it, it crashes, but most of more people go out than crash.

That would be good if they just flipped it and they went, just news, breaking news. There were 27,000 safe flights today. Right? Yeah. And fewer people divorced this year. or fewer children had been kidnapped. No. Oh. Why not? I am, actually.

I don't think. See, I knew you were. The intuition. You pick it up. You pick it up. But a long time ago. So long ago, you forgot. Yeah, you can't forget.

No, no. Why not? Come on. No, no, no. Why not? I have my boundaries. These are my boundaries. Oh, really?

I've told you a lot. But you can ask me different questions. Can I guess? Can I guess? Okay, so you were divorced? This is getting boring. So you... No, but this is getting boring, actually.

So... Because you're not psychologist, but you are trying to ask me, you think that you will find out something. No, not at all. I don't want to tell you. It's finding about your life. This piecing it together. So can I ask for a different question?

Because I think this is just going very conventional. Yeah. Oh, well, that's a very conventional question. What, the divorce? Yeah. I mean, there are other things more exciting about life than divorce. No, of course. No, you keep asking me who is going to read when I die.

Can we actually, can we, can we just, I'm going to stop this. Can we just stop the family business? No family. Yeah. Just more than life. Okay, what are you, what are you good at? Okay, no family. I don't, I can't do that, do something.

Why not? Why do you think you've been successful in life to the, to get to this point? Because I love life. I have lust for life. I'm really curious. And I've had lots of shit in life, as we do. Like the car crash? That was nothing.

Compared to what? To... All the divorces. All the divorces. But, you know... A lot of shit in life. Well, that's... Well, we all go to shit in life.

One of them? Can you give me one of them? Yeah. Okay. Do I have to get... I will tell you and you are not going to interrogate me Okay, okay. So yeah, so a heartache, you know, like breaking up from your life partner.

It's terrifying. Figuring out how you plan a new life when you have your mom being a single old lady in another country. Very hard. Yeah, being let down by some people in life can be really, really hard. So that's what I'm saying, you know, no one. stuff. Yeah. Have you ever let anyone down?

I must have. I'm, you know, I'm not an angel. Probably. What, in what ways do you think you're not an angel? Like, what do you think is complicated about you? No, don't try it. You thought about it for a minute. You thought about answering that, isn't it?

Yeah, like, I'm not getting that. You gave that little thing. I'm quite the good psychologist, and you are, don't try that string. Get another string. Get another string. Yeah, I mean, I am an angel for most of people I know.

And probably for the ones who don't think I'm an angel, that's fine as well. Like, I don't hate anybody. I don't use the word hate. I just don't understand that feeling. I've been, you know, in bad situations in my life. You know, I live with dictator. I live through really hard political situations. Communism, yeah.

I didn't hate people. Can you tell me what that was like? Oh, how? What can I tell you? No, no, no. The question is too big. Just ask me something specific. Well, I mean, how? So, uh, 9089?

9089, of course. We all painted posters and, you know. Okay, so... And we went on barricades and picked the barricades. So, 19, how old are you in 1989? You are... 19. 19. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So my coming of age was like the, it was like, it was like, It's summer of freedom. Perfect. Perfectly timed. Maybe it was all you. I got my first. It was all about me.

They wouldn't have done it otherwise. I got my passport because we couldn't have passports. Okay. What else couldn't you have? We couldn't travel to the western part of Europe. You know, for years we lived in like total censorship so the phone conversations were censored. Did you know that at the time? Yeah, yeah, of course. So what did that mean? The letters, you know, you would, you, you would. you would receive a letter, opened, read and stamped, like, censored. So the state was very present. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It wasn't just like, you know, English people read 1984 and imagined what it would be like. When you live in it, it's quite extreme. Can you think of the most, like, what element of it most affected you? Of communism? Yeah. It's a tricky one. For example, there were only few. but very good things about communism.

We are all up until my and generation above me. We are very, very well educated. There were no differences in society. My neighbors were bakers as well as doctors. So I was quite shocked when I first arrived in England. Like in London, why people asked you about your postcode? Because they will know who you are if you lived in West London. I didn't understand the concept.

And I didn't understand the working. class and middle class, I was like, what the fuck? What's that? It looked more broken than where I came from. Well, because I was a child and a teen, I think it must have been really hard for the generation of my parents. Like, it had no freedom of speech. Yeah. And no freedom of going to another country. And, you know, when I was 11, there was Marshall Law. So, you know, there were, you know, there were tanks everywhere and guys with Kalashnikovs and stuff like that. But as a kid, I was 11 years old, we had, it was a really strong winter and we had so much snow and we just went like sledging and skating.

Like, I would skate forever, forever on a skate ring. Everything was free, sport, education, you know, skating. So the martial orbit didn't particularly, you were just too busy skating about. Because kids, you know, we didn't go to school for a week. Yeah. But it was frightening for my parents because my dad disliked. appeared for two days. Where he was taken in?

Yeah. What, and interrogated? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because in that part of Europe, when people call themselves activists, they are real activists. They don't just go to marches and then go to pub or drink coffee.

It's like, you know, you put your life online. And I think we've had that because we've been, like, chopped by different countries for about 200 years. So we have that kind of like... In the steel. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Do you think you carry with you that spirit still now?

Do you see what I mean by that? Well, I know what you mean, because people ask me that. I don't mean in a, I don't mean in like an activism sense. I mean in a sense of like... Well, wanting justice. Yeah, yeah. I will write letters to my MP, for example, or if something isn't working.

Like with my phones, I googled the name of the CEO and writing to the CEO. and true thing, they fix it next day. Only because I wrote to the CEO and I'm like, fuck, it shouldn't work like that. So the question, no, this is a really good question because many people ask me that. I got a good one. I got one good one in.

Well, you have to earn it. No, I'm kidding. So the answer to this question, partly is yes, because I'm from Poland. But the other part of me, I think it's something I was born with that. Yeah.

Empathy is just part of, my you know i guess get goosebumps when i hear something terrible yeah i don't do it intellectually i don't go and pay some donation because one should sure and i'm also quite cynical about when you know a few years ago we had xr resistance yeah extinction rebellion yeah and i was just like this is like we can this it's like you know some people go to glastonbury but others will go to london to go and Piquet and it's like, and what? Nobody gave up a car, nobody gave up flying, nobody gave up anything. Apart from Greta, probably. A few real hard-crew people did. So, yeah, I have a sense of what real activism is. I'm not one. But the spirit can still be in you, I suppose. Yes. But.

Because also activism also is to push against something, to push yourself. Yeah. To go the extra mile. Yeah, yeah. And I suppose that can, that can be in. And that can be in. you're the extra mile person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where's the shirt from? That's a good question. Well, it's definitely made in India, it's printed in India. Do you like it? Well, because it's indigo, so I know what it is. Yeah. It's a real indigo. It's not fake indigo. It's probably pigment or fiber indigo. Good shirt. Oh, thanks. Thank you very much. Why have you spent so much time in India? Because I work there. I don't spend lots of time, there but I have been going to Jaipo for 20 something years.

Okay, it's intriguing. In textiles. How do you know? Did I say that? No, you just guess. Oh yeah. What's that meant in your life? Good thing to work with? Beautiful things to work with.

I designed clothes, but I've been lucky enough. I never worked for big corporation and a knife always. somehow you know been given like opportunities to work with smaller people on smaller scale and and I met people in India many many years ago who are like like number one heritage place for hand block printing on the museum which they build themselves so yeah that's why India so were you always going to be in Texas it always going to Well, actually, when I was small, there was a cloth shop in front of my, just the opposite of my school.

And I'd go there very often. Really like a kid, I was like nine, maybe 11, I didn't know. And I would ask them to pull some rolls of fabrics for me. I played with fabrics. I would just drape fabrics from my arm down to the floor and nobody said anything to me. And I was just fascinated that there's this fabric which drapes and if you drape it around the body, the fabric which is flat, which is 2D, turns into sculpture. And I've always had fascination for that.

I've been fascinated and I still am pattern cutting. It's the art of understanding how to turn fabric into garment because we are not the same. And we all need that. We need movement everywhere and we are built differently. And it's, can you imagine? Yeah. It's like a never-ending puzzle. It's a science. Yeah, it is a, it's quite scientific. Hang on, I'm just going to, I'm just going to send a text message because I'm really enjoying this conversation.

Okay, good. I'll, another half an hour. Perfect. Yeah. Let me just send this. I do want to ask you some questions when we finish. So you did ask me. You can ask me anytime. How old are you?

Do you want to guess? No, just tell me how old are you? I don't need to get. Just tell me how old are you? 39. And what does it feel like being 39? Should I tell you? No.

Great. Great. I'm going to do my business now. Come on. Because I gave you so much of my own time. Do your business. So do you ever think that you'd like to be creative, like a gay, differently like push your creativity somehow yeah as in that's not this yeah no no no

would you like to be creative more or again somehow yeah I already have been no I'm not asking you about the past I'm a mentor I love asking this question because it makes me understand pursuits of creativity why we go we do what we do what we Why we do what we do. So the question is, what are your biggest challenges in being creative? This is going to sound quite bad what I'm about to say. But I'm going to say it.

You told me that an hour ago, Don't see? This is no good, not bad. But one of my big challenges actually is to try and not do something creative because I've been doing it for such long time. Many doors open, which is beautiful, but also in terms. intense and very consuming. You know, I was only supposed to do a few episodes of this podcast. Try it, just 10, 15, 20 episodes, just to see what it's like is I wanted to do it.

And it went too well. It almost was like impossible for it not to continue because there was too much demand and desire for it. It becomes like a force in of itself. The biggest something gets, the stronger it gets, the more you're not in control of it. So, in a way, my great plan for after this, and there's going to be a break very soon in this podcast, I'm about to get to 100 episodes. This may even be the 100th episode, potentially.

I might just break it after this. Maybe you're the end. But have a little break and then almost actually try and not, like, do nothing. But actually, I don't want to do nothing. vision for my 40th year, well sorry 40 first year after I was 40 was going around and living in other people's lives for a day or two you know like seeing how they work maybe trying to help them just be useful you know so imagine you know I say I want to come and be me be like just follow you around for a day and I can make you cups of tea or something you know and just

look at the sinkhole you know and monitor it I can monitor your sinkhole okay so the question The question was, what is your biggest, do you remember the question? Yeah. What is the question? Biggest, biggest challenge. The challenge is to not carry on doing more and more, more. So, it's to stop. That's the challenge.

So what is your biggest fear of being creative? Again, because it's, because you, well, you are saying that it's almost, like this is almost too good, or it's almost exhausted? Oh, I know the fear, the fear's really easy. So what's the fear? I've got so used to putting things out into the world consistently. For the last 20 years, I've just been like, thing, thing, thing, thing, thing, thing, thing, thing,

probably seeking too much external love. Validation. Too much validation. Needing that on a consistent basis is like a not necessarily out of the attribute. But you are aware of that? I'm aware of it, yeah. So, in a way. Stopping this.

Yeah. Sometimes I think you need to face the emptiness of what is there if you're not constantly giving yourself that hit, you know. So every week I get to put something out into the world now. A new person goes into the world, a new song. I'll tell you about the songs. So every episode ends with an original song by a different artist. So, you know, there's a commission song for every single episode.

Who's going to sing for me? Who's going to sing for you? Prince. Obviously. I'm going to bring Prince back from the dead. Prince, where are you? So can I ask more questions? You can ask many questions you want.

What do you think, what is the most difficult about imagining that you might be creative more again? Like, I'm afraid that I won't be as good anymore. Well, I want to do some songs again. Are you singer? Yeah, so I sing songs. So the idea is I would like to do some more songs. You know, but the fear is that... I have a big fear of songs losing their power with age.

For me, there's that youthful uncertainty is so important in songwriting. You never get certain. I know, I know, you never get certain, but things start to happen. Like, you know, parents die. You know, I've experienced, you know, I've had children. I've had a parent die. I've had a separation from the mother.

In many ways she's still a partner to me and she will be for life, but in terms of romantically we're separated. So I've done all these things, you know, and I feel like there's a lot of kind of, I don't know, a lot of them have been written about already. I've written about it, I've done it, you know. And so it's as it's tricky to know

whether I still have that, the burst of energy needed to write some good songs. Yeah, like, really like, you know, and it paints, I find it such a horrible idea, the idea of putting something out into the world, which is kind of feeble and just a desperate. You know what I mean? And that's what, I mean, the beauty of doing this, it's always fresh, it's always interesting. But you'd like to start singing again. Yeah. If everything, if sky's the limit, What is the biggest dream? I actually just don't know. And that also that also is a fear.

There's so many lots of things I want to do. I want to be a better friend to people. You know, like all day to day, I'm just trapes around trying to find people to talk to. Strangers other than friends. Yeah, exactly. And I have lots of lovely friends and I haven't seen enough of them. And I've slightly unbalanced my life by becoming very passionate about this one project.

I have a question to you. Yeah. No, I'd like to interview you. Well, you're doing now. Just carry on. No, no, no, because there's... Because, no, I tell you what. Yeah.

I teach. And I... I'm fascinated by how... Creativity, what is it? Like, you can't touch it. No definition of creativity is a good definition. And I have, like, a set of questions, which I don't have in my mind right now.

But once a month, I always want to talk to a stranger and ask. I actually ask people 10 questions. Because I help people to be creative again in life. Oh, that's nice. Or later in life, you mean? Or is it any time? Whenever in life. Whenever they feel that I would like to be creative and I'm not.

Why do you do this? Because people want to be creative more in life. And don't allow themselves to do it. There's lots of self-criticism. They have been told once. You're not good at it. It only takes once, isn't it? I've learned that from my thing. Sometimes there's one thing.

Yeah, completely insignificant, but it does the job for you. Yeah, you know, lots of people with their like nine to five jobs dream about having a studio somewhere. And lots of people don't even think about being like famous artists. They just want to have like a small cave, you know. You go and you are in your dream world and it's yours and it's, it's a sensation of being alive. And then, yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, this is privilege. would you do, you know, I took a day off today. For example, you're on the beach.

But lots of people spend days in jobs which they don't enjoy, actually don't like. So there's lots of unhappiness as well. And when we get older, that internal call becomes, you just can't ignore it anymore. Completely. I'm just interested why you wanted to do this for other people. because I work with lots of people

and I know that people want to do it and don't find enough motivation, self-discipline and think that you need some special gift to do it. No, you don't, yeah. It really is like it's down to self-discipline. It's really finding a window every month to do something and you actually have to start and you have to show up again. It's like running for marathon.

Creativity is really, it's really, fuzzy muscle. You have to really nourish it all the time. So you ask me why I do it? It's because why not? Why shouldn't people do it? What's been your your happiest breakthrough with someone? But like... Obviously when they, when they go like, oh my God, like I'm different. I can sense this difference, this big change in life, but I can't tell you exactly what I'm happier. I'm more awakened to my life. I'm not in my life. I'm not small things. I have more really lovely reflections

about life. I spot beauty every day. So you don't really, you don't need financially to do this, I don't teach people. I don't teach people anything. I don't teach skills. They have to show up. You just help motivate them. They motivate themselves and

they listen to what they say. Sometimes when you say something out you hear how ridiculously silly it is. You know, we have so much self-criticism inside. Everyone. And listen to any big, like, superstar, painter, singer. Everybody says, like, I wonder how I did it. You know, ask them all. Like, majority of artists and creative people who made it, they all go like,

somebody's going to find out one day. You know, because you don't have jobs, jobs. Yeah, yeah, of course. And I just love it. I think, you know, lots of people have that ink, that's calling and, like, why not do it? How did you start, you woke up more morning and thought, I'm going to do, I want to teach, I want to teach. I wanted to teach. It's really difficult to get a college, art college, to commit to a new teacher. Yeah. I am very good.

I'm a good teacher. So I applied to a few courses and I had a couple of interviews. And then I had this like paperwork, admin. And I'm like, okay, so how much time to actually have to spend with a student? So how can anybody deliver any teaching these days? And I thought like, I'm just going to teach I'm just going to do my own course.

You're going to go and do it. I'm just going to go and do it. It's a very you thing to do. It's a very me thing to do. I always knock. I always knock on the door. Keep knocking. When I first came to London, I mean, years ago,

when, you know, if you wanted to call fashion studios or anyone, in the Vogue magazine, you just call them because everybody had the landline and everybody had an office or secretary. And you just call up?

Yeah, well, my friend did because I didn't speak English. What, saying what? Well, she said she's really good. Yeah, she's good and she would like you to say whether she's good at it and would you take her as an apprentice?

Love it. Well, because I needed someone to tell me whether I'm good at it. There were no fashion colleges and, well, nothing interesting in Poland. And when I came to London, I had no money to study at Central. And so I thought, well, but I'm just going to study from people.

I learned everything. I've been given so many. I've been given everything. So it needs to go out, in a way, it needs to go out. I love that. Should you wrap up? I was going to ask. I know.

Can I ask you one more question? Yeah. As you're going to do two? Let's just get going slowly. Oh, we can walk, let's walk. This is not recording. No, no, it's recording. You need to hold it.

Can you hold it? Okay, hang on one. We've got to keep walking. Walkie, walkie, walkie to the sunshine. Okay, fine. So. Yeah, so what I was going to ask you is this. I was going to ask you about, that's a nice light, isn't it?

Look at light. Yeah, we have amazing light here. It's different color. Beautiful. Stana. Okay. So you arrived here when you were, how old? England.

In England. I was 23, I think. 25, maybe. But you arrived without any English? No, I didn't see English. It was really like almost nothing. What was it like to arrive as a 23-year-old here? Well, I wanted to work in fashion and I was excited.

I just knew that I was just going to find somewhere. I need to start you, I said, you're going to do it? Yeah. I knew that I have to try because if I don't try, I will regret. I always try. I want something, I will go and ask and have an answer. You make it sound so simple. You just did the same thing this morning.

No, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right. Can you think of your biggest push that you did at that age, your biggest jump? You look back now and go, I can't believe anyone would ever do that. I tell you what, I was deported because I was illegal migrants and I came back a year later. Wow That's cool They just didn't notice No and maybe

Low had changed by then I didn't know They basically I arrived here That was That was really painful That was really really humiliating and painful You arrive at the airport They take a passport from you

You don't speak a language And they did appear with your passport And then somebody took me to like a corridor and the room at the end of the corridor and I sat there I spent about eight or nine hours at Heathrow and they were interrogating me why are you coming here you don't speak the language and I was like well you know I'm just a young person I want to see London I want to learn you know I want to work in fashion I want to work in fashion yeah so that was the most painful and humiliating

experience yeah but they didn't say something back no no Because I didn't even understand what was that I wanted to do in fashion. I just spent life kind of dancing, clapping, and I squatted for a couple of years. So I wanted to meet a master. I wanted to work with some amazing masters. And I wanted to meet this someone, and only they will tell me if I have this thing, which I think I have, like a good teacher. Yeah.

You know, a good teacher normally should spot something in you. oh you know she's good at this and that and you did meet that person pretty much right away oh straight away yeah and they told you you do have you do have it well they just said stay here doesn't matter that you have no portfolio you just have this you just have a thing but what did you show this person i took a rucksack with my clothes and my friends rang them and said she's really good at sewing and pattern cutting and she makes really good clothes normally in the fashion house You make an appointment, you find an agent, you bring a portfolio. And I was just like, ding down, can I work here?

I think it just took them by surprise. And they said, well, stay for a few days. Amazing. I stayed for a few days and after five days they actually employed me. Wow. Yeah. Respect. I love the fact that you wasted no time.

You're straight to the master. The master told you could do it. Done. You solved the problem. No, but you know what life is like. It's like, it's like the question about, when is your most favorite day? You meet a master and then you have another dream for being creative. And then you have a dream for life.

And you still have lots of dreams now? Of course. They never run, they never run out. My mom is 83. She has dreams. Don't ever stop dreaming. Don't ever stop the moment you stop your imagination, then you can die. Buy it on the black web. It's there, get the black pill and go.

So do you live alone? Yes. What's it like living alone? Well, give me a spectrum, what it's like. Is it like, what do you enjoy about it? Would you have a lodger? Never! Why not?

I'm from Poland. I didn't have that mindset. Sorry, why wouldn't you have a lodger? It's a very British mindset. Is it? Oh. Do you have friends in Germany or France or Spain of lodgers? I've you know, I know some people with lodgers.

Do you have a lodger? I've got children, they're lodgers. No? The ultimate lodger. Lodge of Deluxe. Lodge of Deluxe. I'm going to go to this. Are you going for a station? Well, I'm going to go to the station, yeah. No, I walk here. I'll show you with the stations and I go home. Okay, great, great, great.

It's just straight up here. Do you need this caterpillar? The cat. So take it home. You need to take it home. But I want to listen to me. somewhere I'll see it somewhere what is it well that's you know roads will have to edit edit this and then it becomes you know podcast in five years time five years time

or it could be really soon this could be the hunt this could be the last one this could be the last one this could be it's a good meeting you've been a good person to meet maybe this should be the last episode actually and then I have a break after you maybe you're the break I'm the right you signify the break yeah I'm trying to think why you signify the break what is it about you. I just needed to hear Barack. As soon as I heard Barack and you, it was time for a break. To go. That's how you know. This podcast has the last question now, really? Okay. What are you going to do next? That's how they all end. I'm going to walk into the station, give it the pacapeeler and go home.

So what's your home life like then? You're living... Nice life. Are you in love? You haven't done any love stuff? love? Well, not now. Not really, no. You don't love your children? That was very good setup. You set up, eh?

Oh, wow. How do you love my children? I love my partner too. I love the mother of my children. We need to talk about your love. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. I told you everything.

No, no, no. No, no, no. No, I don't know anyone right now, if that's what you're not. Okay. Is there a desire? Of course it's always desire. That never ends. And what are you desiring?

Well love. Everybody wants love now. Yeah, this is true. You go to train from here. Thank you. I'm on the other platform. You're from Hastings. Uh, I think you're local.

You're fake. That's not my train. Anyway, goodbye. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Can you get Prince to sing to me? I'll get Prince to sick. Well you've got to have to choose the next minute.

I've got to get a train. Pick an instrument quick. Do you read? No, no, no, no, no. It's got to be a new song. Pick an instrument that you like. There you go. It's done. Okay.

Bye. The doors close on the train. The stations have no names. And the sunset saying something, but I don't know what it is. met her in the morning, left her in the eve, and tomorrow what's tomorrow, what's the meaning of this mean? We're back to being strangers, we're back to being strangers again. Rise and watch your mother, the hands are shaped the clothes, and the moment lasts forever like a car crash in the snow.

want something you ask, if you don't you will regret and the thing you have not made is the thing you can't forget Never stop, don't ever stop You hold my train, I hope we meet again someday And in the meantime find an ending, find a nothing, find a day We're back to being strangers We're back to being strangers I guess