Strangers on a Bench - EPISODE 19: Covid in Cambodia

Episode Date: January 20, 2025

Tom Rosenthal approaches a stranger on a park bench and asks if he can sit down next to them and record their conversation.This is what happened! Produced by Tom RosenthalEdited by Rose De LarrabeitiMixed by Mike WoolleyTheme tune by Tom Rosenthal & Lucy Railton Incidental music by Maddie AshmanEnd song : 'Covid in Cambodia' by David Thomas BroughtonStream it here : https://ffm.to/covidincambodia Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for you up for that? Do you want to give it a go? Is there a day of the week that you favour? Mondays I would say, today. Can you tell me why? Because the weekend's over and I do a lot of my business on a Monday and I enjoy my business, so Monday's a good start. Have you always done business on a Monday and I enjoy my business. Monday's a good start. Mark Threlfall Have you always done business on a Monday? Mark Threlfall No. In fact, up until about three years ago, I worked in the jungle for 20 years in Cambodia as a tour guide on dirt bikes,

as a tour guide on dirt bikes, which I just lost the business so I had to come back to Blighty, which I've been here since 2021, 22. I left on New Year's Eve and flew to Germany with my girlfriend, who came and got me when COVID was on. So I sold all my motorbikes, 22 motorbikes I had, and survived COVID in Cambodia. Wow. That's a lot of motorbikes to sell. They went one by one as I run out of money. One by one, I sold motorbikes to survive for two years. What was it like to have a business that goes?

So why did it disappear? No customers, COVID killed off incredible amounts of businesses because they didn't have any customers. And it's going to take years for it to build up because some of the businesses were very, very good businesses. It was a very sad time, a lot of suicides. Oh, God.

I mean, in the West, we're lucky because we've got a safety net. Yeah. People should think about that, really. They're English. They're lucky. I agree. During this time, were you surprised by yourself in any way? I mean, did your reaction, or what you did next? No, we were actually, the ones that stayed, we all started drinking heavy. And I don't drink anymore because of it. Yeah,

it's because we had nothing to do. So we weren't pleasant people to be around, it's because we were miserable and drunk. And we didn't have lockdown, we just got locked in the country. So we were free as birds but then we weren't earning any money and my job paid well when I was working but it all got spent. That's an abattoir money isn't it? Yeah. Okay. What was the, after the two years of drinking, what was the moment where you're like I'm not going to do this anymore. I did it when I landed in Germany. I got there and my health was very bad. And then I started doing long walks, which is what I'm doing up until this day.

Now, I do long walks. That's why you found me on the ETH. The long walks work? The long walks work, and I didn't really have a problem to give up the booze. It was actually quite easy because I could see what it does to people and I decided that enough was enough. On your walks, can you take me through what is your favourite walk to do and why? It's the Heath.

It's the Heath. Yeah, it's because I grew up in South London but I came over here during the punk days. I had girlfriends over here. So I started working in the music industry, if you can call it punk rock, the music industry. No one could play a note really. But then I ended up kind of being a North Londoner. I'm still called the traitor in the family, it's because we're all from South London. I went the wrong side of the Thames. Oh no, Oh God.

I love North London. I was over in South London yesterday and I hate it. It's weird isn't it? I think people really fall down one way or the other. I've never met anyone who's like, oh I love both. Do you know what I mean? It's like, you know, it's for some reason. It's the Thames. It's the Thames' fault. For some reason. it just divides people. Yeah, it does. It's that magnetic river that comes in every day and then washes out. There's something about it, as soon as you go across the bridge,

whichever one you want to go across. And funny enough, it's because I lived in Cambodia for so long, 20 years, every now and again, you'd wake up in the middle of the night and you'd have the strangest dream and it would always be in London. Really? Yeah, it's because I used to live just over there. I used to live in Queens Crescent.

I had a flat there for years. So yeah, it's kind of a magnet for me, the Heath. It's because it's green, isn't it? I mean, why would you want to walk around streets when you've got this? Yeah, this is very true. Although some people like the kind of urban flow of city life and...

Yeah. I mean, apart from the homelessness, which is shocking actually for England. And I noticed it on my last visit about six years ago. And we went down to Temple Church. I went down there with a couple of famous punk rockers and we were walking through Oben and we were like looking around and they were just everywhere and I said, how long's this been going on?

And it was shocking because I'd never seen like all the way up from Clark and well to Kings Cross Like you know all the little parks. They're all full of tents It shouldn't be happening really. Yeah, that should be happening. I agree When you were a youth, what do you remember of? Yeah seeing homeless people or not. Yeah, there was a lot of... I got into trouble because I was brought up by an Irish guardsman. It was a military house I was brought up in. And we did something really, really naughty. You know where MI6 is? I do.

Right. Well, before that was there, there was tunnels under there. I reckon that's the reason why they built it. It was a factory. By Vauxhall Bridge is a tunnel that goes down to the tube. We used to play run-outs when we were kids in there. But anyway... What is run-outs, as quickly as... Yeah, we used to play like teams catching the other team. Got it. You know, we used to call it run-outs. Yeah. And we would go all over London. Through the tunnels? Yeah, because the tunnels were already there. They had been there since the war, they're not used. They go to the Battersea Power Station. We grew up running around them. And we built rafts right there.

We got on a telly once because the police came and got us. Because we built a raft and we floated down the Thames and they had to send out the barges to get us. And we got into quite a lot of trouble. But the main story, which is quite shameful really, is because now I'm an adult. Under Vauxhall Bridge, there's some tunnels as you go over South London. There was a hole in the wall. Now inside there was a hole in the wall. Now inside there was a lot of drunks and we had some fireworks and we'd gone over and

nicked some crutches from the hospital. We put in some Roman candles and we went in there like terminators just firing them off. And we got chased all down South Lambeth Road by about 60 of these old methods. You know we were probably eight, nine years old. And when I got home I told my grandfather and he gave me the biggest dressing down. He said they probably fought in the war and you've gone in there and they're probably freaked out because they've got mental issues and you've gone in there and they're probably freaked out because they've got mental issues and you've gone in there and just kicked it all off again and my uncle was looking at me and he was doing that and I

was like bloody hell what have I done I thought it was funny, but after that, I completely changed my act. I never did anything like that. I would never even think of doing it. But it did it, marked me. It's funny how you remember people's reaction all round that room. When you're told off like that as a youngster, it's etched in. Yeah, it's stamped in the brain never to do anything like that again. There was the black label, Carlin Black Label factory that we used to have fun in as well.

What did you do in there? We used to go in and nick the bottles of beer. Did they really make it that easy? No, but you knew what you were doing. We knew how to get in. We were South London urchins, of course we knew how to get in. How long did that last? What was the end point of that age-wise or time? It never really stopped. I don't think I ever stopped. I was just always running around. I had a scooter shop down in Kentish Town for five years. All the neighbors used to love us, but thinking back, we were always loud loud always Belting up and down the road on their scooters But then I would say I didn't change until my mid-20s. I

Started to settle down a bit. What what happened? What I moved to Spain and married and then became kind of sensible You know, do you wish you didn't? Become so sensitive. No, I think everyone has to grow up sooner or later. I was late to the party on that one. I wanted to stay young. Do you think that the stay young is just in you? I think it's in everyone. Some people, life changes and it depends on how your life is. I left the UK in 1985, 86. I moved to Spain. I did a lot of traveling in Africa and I did some commercial diving. So I moved around a lot and then ended up in Cambodia as a tour guide.

For 20 years? 20 years, yeah. And it was all through travelling. Every time I came back to England, I only used to come back in the summer. I hated winters here. I still do. This one was awful. There's three of us sharing a house in Kentish Town.

One's a gardener. One's working in the creek as a cleaner, we're all the same age more or less. And over this winter, I would get a cold and then Sonia would get a cold and then Sod would get a cold. So this cold was going around all winter. This is in my magical circle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was going to go in the room and die for a week. Mark Threlfalle – Did you, the three of you in the house, do you, when say two of you got a cold and the other one doesn't, do you look after the other two? Mark Threlfalle – No. We're absolute fuckers. It's like fuck off to your room.

Mark Threlfalle – Amazing. your room. It's humour, we do feel sorry for him. We've got that London's, because we're all Londoners, we all get on, but we've got that black humour. It's a cockney thing, I think. What is the relationship between all you three housemates like? Really good, actually. We're all covering each other's problems. At the moment, I am covering tobacco and shopping. And we all work pretty well together, actually. My mate Tony I've known since I had my scooter shop in the 80s, he lived across the road, so we've been mates for a long time. So I've lived in there for six months now but I'm still wondering what I'm gonna do whether I'm gonna go back to Cambodia which I think

I will do in the end. Or go and I spend a lot of time in Germany with my girlfriend. It's because she's the opposite of me. She's very together because she works for civil defense in Germany. Oh, wow. So she's like... But I met her on the Thai-Cambodian border and she had the lonely planet.

And I had just got back from England. This was five years ago, six years ago. She was on the border and it's because I'm a tour guide, of course I know all the border guards and the touts and everyone and they said this girl, her bike's broken down. I looked over and I knew, I even knew the bike. And I went over there and I said, right, here's the deal. I'll get your bike going but then I'll ride it into to Kokong and then when we got to it was about 10-15 kilometers Kokong from the border I said to her, I said do you fancy a beer? She said yeah and she got her lonely planet out and then she was looking at an ad and it was me. She said I'm looking for you.

I said, you're lucky. Was this ad just a picture of you? No, it was, I'm in the lonely planet as a jungle tour guide. So she was looking to go in the jungle with a motorbike and I'm in there for, I've been in there for years. In fact, I'm quite famous in Cambodia for being one of the best guides. Fantastic.

Because I always employed backpackers. So is that why they think you're the best? Is that why you're the best? Well, I mean, I wasn't the best. I'm sure some were better than me for sure. I wasn't the best, but I mean, if I'm chatting up a bird, I'm definitely the best, ain't I?

So true. You don't mind if I smoke do you? No, not at all. So as someone who's spent a very large amount of time in a jungle or jungles? No, Cardamom Mountains and Laos. I've got a million stories on what I got up to out there, man. Incredible ones. It used to take us five days to get through the jungle on dirt bikes. That's a long time. I found people that got lost up there. There was a German guy who used to go up there. We saved his life. Saved a few people's lives.

Nearly killed a few as well. We're fucking nuts. What a shit we got up to out there. Let's go for the people you saved first. Who did you say, like, you think of the best, the most memorable save? The best memorable save was quite funny actually. I used to have these Americans that used to turn up. They were young. They were in their early 20s to mid-20s. They used to come every year and I'd rent my bikes and they'd say, where can we go in the jungle?

Because they were handy. Anyway, I sent them up to a place called Osom, that's kind of in the middle of the jungle. It's one of the remote villages. And I said, look, there's a really nice waterfall. So anyway, the Chinese had dammed up the jungle up there and they've gone to this waterfall and they've opened the dam when they're in the river. Now this is a hundred foot waterfall onto rocks, right, and they all got out apart from one. He ducked

under a rock. Now what happened? His mate rung me up. I said, how's it going up there? It's not going so good. They've opened the dam and Kirk's on the waterfall and we think he's gone over. So I got on to the police, the military, the rangers. I said, turn the damn dam off. I said, turn the fucking dam off. And one of the police rung up the Chinese and said, you better turn the water off. They opened it during the day. They don't normally open it during the day. They had to let the water out

because there was so much rain up there that they had to let the water out otherwise it would have gone over. So yeah, he was stuck under there for six hours under a rock, in a little pocket, and he came out alive. Fantastic. Everyone said he's dead. Yeah.

I mean, even his mates. I mean, you saw the water coming down that waterfall. But, you know, that was just the run-of-the-mill stuff up there. Can you think of the most beautiful sight that you saw in the jungle? Yeah, definitely. I surprised a leopard one day. It was only a baby leopard, but it was a clouded leopard. I was on one of my really quiet bikes.

I had a 200 Honda and it didn't make like the normal loud noises that dirt bike makes. And I was on point, so my customers were behind me and I went round a dogleg through the jungle, kind of went round a bush so you couldn't see it. And I'm coasting, so I'm not even revving the bike, I'm waiting for the customers to catch up, I can hear them in the distance. And I've sort of coast round this corner and thisopards right in the middle of the path that I'm going down and he's surprised to see me and I'm surprised to see him and I could

see in his eyes if that animal could talk he would have went what the fuck but he had that expression on his face and you don't get that close but his face was incredible I still remember remember it clear as anything. So the leopard, you're face to face with it. What distance are we talking? A meter. Wow. And right there. Yeah. Fantastic. But it was as close as I have ever been to a wild animal. I mean, the cobras I've been close to. I had one in my headlamp once.

I saw it unwind. That was scary. As you were driving. I didn't run it over. So it's in your lamp? It was in my headlight, yeah. Fucking hell, I thought I was going to have a heart attack and I didn't calm down for two hours

because I knew if he had bit me, I would have died. You see a lot of snakes. I mean they're hanging off the trees, they're everywhere. I mean you know you learn your snakes. Any favorite snakes? No, none of them. They're all bad. No I don't kill them or I don't mess with them but yeah they you know they're dangerous. Plenty of people die out there. The other thing is lightning strikes. They're really big. Crikey. What do you do about them're dangerous. Plenty of people die out there. The other thing is lightning strikes. They're really big. Crikey. What do you do about them?

Nothing. You shit yourself. But they always happened where we were working. You know, you're up with the gods. Amazing. While I lived in the most remote village in Cambodia, I lived in there for about three, four years. Over those three, four years, I actually knew that these seven people had died of lightning strikes.

Crikey. That's a lot of people to know to die of lightning strikes. Yeah, I know. Normally, you'd never meet one. Yeah, so there's nothing you can do... There's no advice you can give people. I mean, one time I actually was so scared because it was a family that got killed about four days before my house was getting struck. We had some toilets that were sort of like down and they were made of concrete and I

went and fucking hid in there for about four or five hours. Cause I was there alone. And I'll tell you what, it was scary. It was like being in a battle zone. It was everywhere. Yeah. And it was like the ground was shaking

and it can kill you within 25 meters. Really? Yeah, a strike. And we were getting struck, like, constantly. Yeah. How come none of this put you off? Well, it's kind of an experience to go through. I mean, you just think, like...

After the kind of the snakes and the lightning and this and that and people dying, you didn't feel like, you know, that's it for me at all. No, I kind of like that stuff. It's living. It's called living. It is called living. It's called living dangerously as well, though, no? I mean, it is pretty...

But if there is a God and we do go up and see him, I don't want to turn round to him and say, do you know what, it's fucking boring down there. And he's going to know, he's going to go, yeah, you weren't exactly boring, was you? And I'm going to go, yes, yes, God. And he's going to say, good lad. Do you somehow manage to, you know, because life is, you're not there anymore and you're here, do you try and kind of do anything to

kind of replicate the exhilaration of some of it? No, you can't do it. You can't do it. I mean, you can't compare it. Do you get reports, do you know people that are still there, who talk to you about what's happening and stuff? All the time. I mean, that's where my life is. I mean, you know, I'm treading water here, literally. Most of my mates are either moved out, got married. We're all old fogies now, it's because we're all at age of, I'm 63. So all my mates are around 63.

Some of them have died, some of them have moved away. And yeah, I suppose I was like one of the action men of the gang. Lovely. But now, the good thing about being the wrong side of 60 is that you've got a free bus pass. Nice. Yeah, I can travel on a bus. Freedom of the city.

Freedom, yeah, freedom, yeah. I even get the bus up the Eves because I've walked Highgate Road so many times, I hate it. You know, anything to not've walked Highgate Road so many times I hate it. You know anything to not walk up Highgate Road. What is it about Highgate Road you look like? I lived back in the day there was a lot of squats in the 80s and the 70s. Well I had a mate who was a plumber for Camden Council. I said, look, I'm going to get evicted. And he said, where do you want to live?

I said, up by the Eath. And he'd go, all right. And I'd pay him 50 quid. He'd give me a set of keys for a flat, council flat. And then I'd have about three, four months in there before they had evicted me. And then I'd pay him another 50 quid, and I get another council. We were doing that. That's like a classic system.

That's very clever. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. It was a bit, I feel like I, it was a better age than that was possible. Why do you think there's so much homelessness and the kids won't leave homes, because they can't afford it?

Yeah. I mean, years ago, there were so many empty council flats. I've been doing about seven properties around here for about two years. And I was working for Shane McGowan, you know, with the Pogues. Yes, yes, yes.

You know, before the Pogues. Oh, wow. So Shane was down in Layton Road, right, with his girlfriend. And I was just moving around council flats every two, three months. There you go. Different time. Yeah, it was a good old days, the 80s. The 80s were good here. I think the best time, I came back from Spain, I lived there 11 years, I came back and a lot of my mates that weren't quite famous in the 80s, some of them were, but a lot were famous in the 90s. It was a really

good time. The noughties, no, that's when it all started to change. What was it about the noughties that did that, do you think? I suppose when you have a good period, you get a shit period afterwards. It's kind of the other side of the coin. That's it. When are we going to have the good period again? I don't know. well over to you, haven't we? Well over to you. You mentioned your dead friends. How often do you think about your dead friends?

And if, do you think about one of them more than any other? I do think of one of my girlfriends who died. She lived down in Camden. She died the day that I left to Cambodia. I think of her often as because I walked past her place a lot. And she was one of the big loves of my life so yeah but yeah a few of them yeah I mean I think of all of them but not all the time I suppose it's part of getting hold really

yeah yeah if you could as someone you know let's say in the August of life, can we say you're in the August of existence? Yeah, I'd say so. What would you say to someone who's in February or March? What would you say? Be advice for them, good advice. Get out and travel. Get out of England. There's so many good places out there. Great countries out there. So yeah, I'd say to youngsters, get out.

Because otherwise you're just going to end up with this English attitude. Some people like it, but I don't. But I'm only a small percentage, I think. I really appreciate that take on things. Okay, last question. What are you going to do next? Ah, the big question. What am I going to do next? Actually, I kind of like being, now that I don't have a business, I kind of like being a gypsy at the moment

because I'm not being tied down with anything. You know, a lot of my friends are saying, you know, settle down, you know, get a council flat, you know, like you'll get help. I'm quite happy not having it at the moment because I'm not responsible to anyone. I've got, I'm as free as I think I've ever been, apart from being maybe a kid. They say that when you get older,

you start to revert to being a child again. I think I'm going through that period at the moment, Tom. I love, I love being free. I love being free. Houred up there with the gods, dodging lightning strikes and copras, Now the long walks worked me sober, always drawn back to the heap. Memories of boyhoods, in bottles of black label rascals on rafts and running tunnels underneath from Camden to Cambodia, may see the dead or moved away If you can get out of England, see the world and come back wiser I had the strangest dreams I had the strangest dreams I had the strangest dreams