Strangers on a Bench - EPISODE 25: The Teacher Will Appear

Episode Date: March 3, 2025

Tom Rosenthal approaches a stranger on a park bench and asks if he can sit down next to them and record their conversation.This is what happened! Produced by Tom RosenthalEdited & mixed by Eloise WhitmoreTheme tune by Tom Rosenthal & Lucy Railton Incidental music by Maddie AshmanEnd song : 'The Teacher Will Appear' by Danny CasioStream it here : https://ffm.to/theteacherwillappear-------------------Instagram : @strangersonabench Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for you up for that? Do you want to give it a go? What is your favorite day of the week? My favorite day of the week? It needs to be Friday. It needs to be Friday? It is Friday. It's Friday, it's Friday. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, can you say why? It has the whole promise of the weekend ahead and at work everybody's just a little happier. It's always a good day. There's bad Sundays, you know. And even bad Saturdays, but there's almost never a bad Friday. So that's why. The pleasure is in the anticipation. Exactly. That's right.

Do you do anything differently on a Friday than the other day? So I am, and you wouldn't tell from my appearance, but I'm a lot into Latin dances. Latin dances. Yeah, so like I practice salsa for a while. For Dutchmen I'm a good into Latin dances. Latin dances. Yeah so like I practice salsa for a while. For Dutchmen I'm a good dancer which doesn't say anything because we're notoriously bad dancers. Oh really? Why is that? Why we're bad dancers? Yeah. It's a general lack of rhythm. Like there's a sort of a Dutch like a swear word a cheese head. Cheese head? A cheese head, a kaaskop, a cheese head.

Fantastic. Yeah. Related to like dancing. It applies very much to dancing. The level of agony in beginners' classes of salsa with Dutch guys trying to have rhythm, and it just, it's dreadful. It's dreadful.

But you battled through that. Did you have rhythm when you were younger? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I danced enough, like when, I danced enough when I was 16 just to make it through. But Friday night it's always nice to go to a salsa party. That's why you can recover the whole weekend because I'm a bit older now. So I need that. It all comes together. So you can go big Friday night. What has salsa or dance in general, what has it given you?

It's given me great connection with other people. I think this applies to those cheeseheads who only go to the beginners classes because they want to go there for the ladies and then they realise hey this is a lot of work to get ladies in easier ways. I think that's why they drop out. That's never why I did it So like I've quite a serious serious job, which like I'm in a management position So like I could never find a lady there but also in general like if you're the boss you have a different connection with people because like you never know if they were like truly honest or

They just understand it's also really it's a mix of people and it really is a mix of everything different backgrounds different jobs different Looks different ages. Everything is just one big mix and it doesn't matter who you are what you do Nice, that's so wonderful. Yeah, what would you say is your kind of? most memorable moment in dance Particular moment where like the magic truly happened. I've been dancing for six years and it's quite a technical dance. Especially when you're the lead, you have to think a lot. You're in your head a lot instead of in your body.

And only recently I noticed that I'm actually dancing, I'm not in my head as much, I'm not tracking. I was flowing and I loved it. It was so nice. How many years to get to that point? It took me five years but I gotta say like I've been in a relationship for a few of those years with a lady who didn't dance quite naturally then you also dance a bit less. It definitely takes you like two years even if you if you dance every day. So you never dance with your lady? Is this current lady? No, no, no.

I'm single again. This is my first solo trip and I'm single now for nine months. So some holiday was coming up and I knew I needed to do something. I couldn't just be in Amsterdam for three weeks, which is where I live. So I figured, all right, I've lived there once a long time ago for a few months. I love London. I'll just go for a week. Fantastic.

Near a park and I'll just, you know, read on benches and stuff. That's a wonderful thing. Do you feel like this is a kind of big turning point in your life? I mean I'm not even being here but like a big moment in your life. Like the most difficult part of being mid-30s, single again, a lot of friends, they already got married, they got kids and that kind of stuff. One of the more difficult things of that is the sort of the emptiness, the loneliness sometimes, but thinking about it positively, it's a lot of freedom. Like this morning I could just decide what to do

or at least what I'm trying to be aware of now in ten years time maybe hopefully I'm in the family, I'm very busy and I'm longing for those moments where you can just sit on the bench, have the time to talk to a stranger. So I want to make sure that I appreciate it now instead of longing for it later and realizing that I didn't appreciate it at the time. So like do you have a partner? Yeah. Yeah? Have you ever been in a bad relationship? Yeah. Like what I realized I've had like a pattern of relationships where I keep choosing the wrong, like not wrong women like wrong for me. Why do you think you do that? Yeah so like I've worked with it

quite a bit actually and it has always to do with family patterns when I was a kid and you know like the relationship with my mom and like like all that and then suddenly like when you realize like, oh, that's why I'm attracted to this push pull, which isn't healthy, which isn't nice. Isn't leading to anything. That's why I keep rejecting women that are actually available and actually nice because it's not, it doesn't resemble that same unhealthy thing. So once that clicks, it clicked for me a couple months ago.

So that makes me hopeful. Did you tell your mom about this? I actually had a conversation with her about it. I needed some staging. But starting off with a lot of appreciation for what she did for us, because she's the most loving woman ever and she never did anything with bad intentions.

But she herself had some difficulties in her childhood, which I totally understand why sometimes she felt overwhelmed or she needed to shut off sometimes anything with bad intentions, but she herself had some difficulties in her childhood, which I totally understand why sometimes she felt overwhelmed or she needed to shut off sometimes because it's just too much. I also felt healthy to share. How nervous were you when you were talking to her about this? It was alright because I processed it first myself, so there wasn't any... I didn't feel any negativity with her anymore. I understand. I didn't need an apology yet.

And that helped a lot. It felt like if this isn't talked about, it's always going to stand in the way a little bit. And I'm really glad that it did, because it feels very strong now. So, that was a healing moment. So, it was actually very nice. How did you say what you said? I used a moment that happened a few months ago where she gave me the silent

treatment and I suddenly realized for the first time as an adult instead of reacting like a kid and just accepting it or just taking it in, absorbing the mental blow, for the first time I realised, hey, this is not acceptable actually. Like, I don't deserve this. And I used that moment. What she did there, it reminded me when I was a kid, when you were standing in the kitchen, giving me the silent treatment and it made me feel very anxious.

It's the same thing. And then I also, like, I related it to, that's probably why I keep being attracted to women, giving me this same sort of treatment. Slightly unavailable. Yeah as a kid you connect the dynamic with love then you're gonna connect it as an adult which isn't necessarily healthy. It's so easy to mess up parenting. Oh yeah. Like you have kids? Oh yeah I do. You know like small bits of it. You're gonna mess up. Like the FKs? Oh yeah I do. You know like small bits of it. You're going to mess up. Everyone does.

Of course, of course. In any way. I just hope that it is not too impactful. Exactly. Or doesn't lead to a lifetime of trauma or whatever you're doing or not doing. Even now I've just started getting emails from my eldest daughter's tent. There's something really odd about getting emails from a child. I can only imagine.

You know like you see the words, you're like, you wrote those words to me, that's weird. We're writing words to each other. Like, that's funny. And I was responding to her and then I was putting quite a lot of exclamation marks. I think I overuse exclamation marks. So it's like, you want to just go, yeah, yeah, yeah, you'll find a way of saying it. Then afterwards I was like, oh god, is that a good thing for me to be sending her two too excited messages am I looking too keen? Yeah yeah.

You know it's a bit like it's constantly like that you think like oh I'm messing this up and is she gonna kind of oh you know I mean but it's lovely that you would have a dialogue with your mum because some people will go through their whole lives and never be able to say that you know and to be able to like get that Yeah, everybody has these friends who keep going into the wrong relationship. You know them everybody has exactly you're stuck in one Yeah, and it's very unhealthy in your seriously less happy than you could have been for your entire life or the stoves people who keep Going to the next one the next one the next one and you're like, oh, it's the same thing again You know and I'm happy I feel strong after having processed this because I felt

differently like a year ago. But now it could actually be different. Would you do anything differently this time around to how you did it before? Way like many things. Like I've ignored my fair share of like red flags, like a lot of them. So that's the first thing. But then once you're in a relationship I'm gonna catch myself when I act as a child because you're gonna act out as a child when you get triggered the same way

You did when you were a kid I'm gonna do therapy for the rest of my life like once a month or once a quarter like like just To keep myself in check because I know even though you process it You're always gonna be sensitive to the same triggers being able to apologize soon Like look I said something or did something, didn't mean to, this is where it's coming from, I apologize. I like how you got a real strong vision and like idea of how that's gonna work.

I think people think often, they think about romance and you think about this like naturally flowing, brilliant thing that's just pure like oceans of magic. But actually, like, I think it is very useful to think about, you know what, how am I going to be better in this relationship actually? You know like still people can get swept up too easily and stuff. And by then you're too deep in, you've formed patterns which are almost unbreakable. Or you think you're kind of an inherent part of the relationship

that you couldn't imagine doing it differently. I also realized like a lot of people like myself included definitely you're so focused on what the other person should do differently whereas the only thing you can influence is what you yourself can do differently. It's more helpful but also more healthy to focus on yourself and what you can do differently. different. What's the last thing you did regarding your wife that you regretted and you have yet to apologize for? Oh my god. I would say a bit like you, in the sense I... I would say it's more consistent behaviours rather than like a particular thing that I start...

Episode or something, yeah. I think I... I have a bit of like a kind of a natural defense mechanism around like Arguments kind of self-defense like too stubborn. Yeah, you know, I always go for like no I've defending my position too strongly Yeah and It's very hard to like even if you're very aware that I'm aware that I'm doing because I'm telling you yeah, I'm doing Very hard to just like turn that off. What are you protecting? Your ego? Yeah, I don't really know. I think it's like that kind of,

is it maybe like a terrible affliction of just like feeling that like I'm almost always right, but I'm obviously not. I've somehow cultivated this thing. I think my father had it. It's classic. My father had it as well. My mother's not that far off also, like in terms of like the stubbornness. Stubbornness for like being who you are and defending that till the death. You know, like this is who I am, this is what I'm doing. For the large part of my life it's been really useful. For instance, I wouldn't be sat here on a bench doing this if I didn't believe in myself or didn't believe in the idea. But I suppose that's like there's a stubbornness to make it happen, which is good here. But you know, for some

things and some relationships, it's not so great and that's a definite fault. And the problem is, I suppose sometimes I don't realise maybe quick enough. I think I've got quicker. I mean, relationships do just get, you know, I'm quite far into a relationship, you know, in terms of years now. They're always swirling around. They're still quite confusing. I mean, they're kind of miracles that happen ever in a way,

or any kind of successful relationship is a small miracle, I think. Yeah. It's just, you know, so much also of the past. As you said, isn't this your mum's trauma? Nick, we're talking. Generations. Generations, more than we can conceive

of all these moments and they all add up. They're all infused into the next person in their small ways. How many behaviors is that? It's so ingrained in how we do things. So then you're another person bringing in theirs, and then they come together, it has to go, it just has to go along.

So what I'm saying, I think more people should have, like you, like that thinking of like, can I do this better going in? In a sense, I think you have to, I mean, my partner would hate me for saying this, baby, but I think, I think, like in a a way I can't be saved from my problem because I think It's so ingrained in how we do things. I did have a few things at the beginning like you. One was Not seeing people too often

From the start. Yeah, there's a big thing for me. I think you feast at the buffet. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Like, oh, let's keep eating, let's keep going because this is exciting, this is great. But it's important just to bounce out a bit. Do other stuff.

Esther Perel, I don't know if you know her. Yeah, I do. Yeah, I think she has this theory, right? Like once people get sort of infused in one of the same person, because like they're all together, they have no separate lives anymore. All the tension, the healthy tension

that needs to be there for it to spark is gone as well. So you need to have that space between it to keep it magical, or as magical as it could be at least. That's it, completely. Yeah, I'm a big one for like, living your own life. Yeah, you have to be your own person. Within reason and doing your own thing.

Of course that has its own issues, you have to be your own person. Within reason and doing your own thing. Of course that has its own issues, you know. I started touring five, six years ago with my music things and that was quite a bit, so I kind of decided I was going to do it and that was a big thing, but sometimes of course that's also dangerous, you know, you're off doing your stuff and there was a, hang on a sec, we didn't really kind of totally sign up for this or what is this going to be or what does this mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that's a classic danger as well. I mean it's a fun, it's basically a very fun balance isn't it?

But I do think that it basically not acknowledging that we're just so different. I mean everyone's so different. Yeah. And just like embracing that a bit. And also what worked for your duo might not work for anyone else. For instance, I don't know how you feel about this, but I don't like sharing beds. Which again is his cultural thing, you've got to share a bed. You're partners, share a bed.

The ingrained things is what people do. Think of every film you could possibly imagine. Can you think of someone that does naturally run different beds? I'm sure if they've had a fight, but not if they're just in the same house, but in different rooms. Yeah, but the romance of that is overrated and good sleep is underrated.

Of good, yeah, yeah, exactly. And so for a good while now, we've had our, it's obviously, has to be said, like, especially living in London, a big luxury to be able to do that. That's like one thing, obviously like that. It's not easier said than done, obviously. But I think it's crucial to have your own space.

If you need to go to bed at nine o'clock and someone else wants to go at 11 o'clock, it's important that both have the chance to do that. I agree. Or to retire. If I ever get the chance for that, then for sure. Yeah, yeah. I mean, but yeah, I suppose it's just an example

of just doing it however's best for you guys rather than like, you know. What people think you should do. What people think you should do, what's culturally accepted and all this kind of stuff. Definitely. I'm now very invested in your future love life, you have to keep that. Next time you see me sitting on the floor somewhere and I'm alone you know something went wrong right? Oh no, but we had the chat, but we had the chat! What happened? What happened? Oh fantastic. Are there any potential candidates just floating around who you're interested in? Yeah so like nowadays you have these dating apps right so you know it's easy to talk to people

and I guess it's relatively easy to meet someone but it's still it's different from meeting someone in the natural environment and having like a natural click I'm imagining that if you met your wife 14 years ago that you had sort of a natural pre-app Yeah, pre-app so that like I guess that's nicer because then there's already some chemistry here And when you go on a date with someone you both already swiped right, you know, it's why right in the real. Yeah Like one or two people that I'm talking to to, but it's tough to meet them. Of course. Is there anyone in your kind of in your life, like as someone you know already who you're potentially interested in?

No, I don't think so. Not really. I don't think so, no. Yeah. And it's fine, it's fine. Yeah. No one at work? No, no one at work, no, no, no.

Yeah, I mean I haven't really done office life. I often like kind of dream about what I would be like in an office. Yeah. For me it's this catalyzing interesting place. No, no, it's a lot less romantic as you make it seem now. Like, you know. But I've never heard this. Someone not doing an awful job. Like, do it for a few weeks and you'll know. I don't know what like I don't know being able just to try it out for a couple of weeks is a kind of... You could be the like that that fun person in the office that does nothing but he's fun so everybody just keep him on they keep him on they just kind of like yeah we'll just allow him to just be around because everybody needs like the fun person to talk to.

Tell me about what it's like, you mentioned earlier, that you're a boss. Yeah. I'm not sure if I've had a boss yet on a bench. What's it like to be a boss? It's quite fun. It's a nice, like honestly like it's definitely not the boss people around. That's the least fun thing to do. That's your last resort and just you say I'm the boss and you're just gonna effing do it. Yeah. But like it's a personal failure if you have to use that, because then you haven't inspired it in any other way. But it's nice to sort of move the organization, move the troops all in the same direction

after it's been disorganized. And it's nice if people start marching, if there's a flow to your thoughts, to your vision, that that's amazing. It's nice to see individuals who weren't happy at work suddenly get that spark again, make a difference in their life, make them a little happier to go to work every day. That's true impact on someone else's life, positive impact on other people's life. That is great. It's nice to be able to set your own agenda. I

still work like many hours and it's hard work, but nobody ever tells me you need to be able to set your own agenda. I still work many hours and it's hard work, but nobody ever tells me you need to be there at that time or you need to work nights or you work evenings. Like it's nice to be able to choose whenever you wanna work. Yeah, yeah, that's cool. I totally get that. Given that I have just told you that I'm kind of interested and excited sometimes about how an office might work. Having not been in an office, what in your time in

an office has been the most exciting moment? Just to prove my point, so I've been in offices for 14 years, for 40 hours a week or more and there's nothing podcast worthy that comes to mind. Like there's been small pleasures of course of your small successes or funny things that happen or conversations whatever but it's not that one exciting thing, not a bomb scare, not some sexual intercourse of two colleagues that you that couldn't imagine being together or something. Nothing to mention. That's why I'm reading this book, Men's Search for Meaning, because I've been in offices for 14 years. I'm still looking, I'm still looking.

So is this your way of saying that like, you just don't want to be there anymore? No, no, no, it's still fun, but it's, you know, it never gives you a story in a bar that gives you the edge, you know? Yeah, it's not gonna get you, you know? Okay, let's imagine the majority shareholder calls you up and says, really sorry, I've had a chat with my other shareholders, no one likes you in the office.

The company is losing money at an incredible rate. We've had a chat and have decided that not only can you no longer work for us but you could no longer work in this sector again. What's your first reaction? I'll say thank you and shake their hands and I mean that. I mean that. Just like I don't want to be with a girl who doesn't want me. If they don't want me they can you know shake my hand and just say yeah no no but I mean that so actually like one of the lesson in this book is it is about a man who's been in a concentration camp and no one ever alive at this world there's been there's place in the world but in the

UK in the Netherlands I guess there's almost no one who has it like this difficult as which reading it poor of course it's mind-blowing and still he says the one thing nobody can ever take away from you is your own attitude towards the situation. You can always choose darkness or light for every situation. So if they don't want me anymore, why would I want to be in a place where they don't want me?

There could be places there, people do want me. That's fine. The second thought is as you walk out of this office, the management office, for the last time and you go and I don't know, sit by canal and look out and think what am I gonna do? What would be the dominant thought that came into your head in terms of what you might do with your time? Like I'll chill for a long time until the thing pops up like... So you wouldn't rush it? Definitely not. One thing like I want to make like a real difference so for example if I could be with a couple of friends or a

couple of guys, girls, I do worry about like the planet and the climate change and that kind of stuff. Yeah. Like a lot of people are already doing it. Somehow it doesn't click. So if we could find something to make an actual difference there, that would be very nice. Well, I mean, the obvious thing to say is that like, you could do it. Like I'm still young, so, you know. But just like they say, like, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear.

I also feel like when the opportunity is ready, the teacher will appear. I also feel like when the opportunity is ready, when I'm ready, when it's in the stars, then I'll know. I would say, though, also, the normal working structure of life often doesn't give you, not you, but anyone, the chance for the teacher to turn up, to actually have the space, to try stuff, to talk to people, to think, you know? But I'm not gonna do the job forever, so even if they don't call me up and say

that, like everybody hates you and you suck, so you have to leave, you know. I've done it once in my career where I took a couple months, like in between jobs, like on purpose, like just to have the freedom of it, and it gave me a lot so I'm gonna do that like for the rest of my career keep some space and then choose so for sure I'll do that yeah What was the last funeral you attended? One of my dearest friends father. Yeah. They're really painful and really beautiful. Yeah.

A lot of respect for that man. My parents were both there too, because they knew him. And actually one other dear friend of me told me, do you realize that you've spent 99% of all the time you'll ever get with your parents? It's already spent. When you're a kid you see each other every hour, every day, or almost. And when you have your own family, or at least you don't live at home anymore, it's what, like once a month? If you're lucky maybe a few hours a week.

But still, if you add up all that time, you spend 99% of it. So it made me realize I have to make the most of that 1%. So I make more of a conscious effort to connect with my family. So if you have like a spare evening and I could spend it with them, or just phone call. And it's on my mood board too.

You know, the stuff I find important is there. So whenever I walk by and I realize like, hey, like I haven't talked to anyone in a week, you know, I'm gonna phone up a sibling or my parents, you know. Is there a question that you haven't asked them yet that you would like to ask them? That's a good question. I don't know, but thank you for the question

because now I'm gonna think about it. What did your parents do well with you, do you think, when you were young? I think one of the things that stood out, I can say they were always there, but I guess that applies for many of them, but one thing that doesn't apply for every parent is they never put any pressure on me

or my siblings to achieve in life. We were very open to do whatever we want. There's many people around where parents pressure on the kids to perform or achieve. It becomes such an important or such a big theme in their life that it determines their whole life, whether they like it or not. I always wanted to work hard and achieve but like some of my siblings they don't and they're doing fine but they're not a boss but everybody feels confident about themselves everybody is fine with that and that's they actually did a good job because there's been many moments where like thinking

back I can only imagine the temptation they could have had to apply pressure or to say hey you need to start working harder or hey you need to do this but I always just gracefully you know. What is the darkest part of you? Is there anything that like you try and stop people from seeing? So one thing that I have worked at is jealousy because it's such a bad negative emotion whether it's when you're in a relationship and you feel jealous because that's your only insecurity basically that's knocking on the door but also if something good happens to a friend even though you're happy for your friend that it happens but you still feel a little bit like

ah I wish that happened to me and you can't fully be happy for them because there's this part of you where you're like ah like I wish I wish I had it I really dislike that about myself because that's a bad quality but whenever that happens I really try to sit with it. Like why can't I be fully happy for them? Why does it impact me this much? And usually when you sit with it, you let it pass. You learn something about yourself and then you let it go. I never act on it.

So you can try to really focus on the part that's also there where you're genuinely happy. If it's gonna be like a bad emotion, you might as well get something out of it. So that's what I try to do But you know, this is one friend who like really like everything was going well at work He got engaged, you know, and he has like a really healthy relationship And not that I would want the girl but I would want that chemistry that they have There I felt a little bit like okay, like this guy like everything is going well for him now and I I just been in the breakup and then like And you're like, yeah, you can learn something about yourself

You can answer this in a big way or a kind of mundane way What are you going to do next? The small way to answer is to run for bathroom because I need to pee badly. I'm going to try and reflect on this conversation. There's a Dutch book, it's called De Meeste Mensen Deugen, which means that most people are nice, basically.

It's nice because there's been like so much negativity and polarization in the world you know it's nice and sort of on the ground all the people are still like like they're still open to just have a chat and that's that's a nice thing but I'm gonna see you like whether I can like maybe have more random chats with people it's nice you know so yeah that's a great last thought to have. Right. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you. I'll let you have your wee now. Let's talk about the 99% I sense

The time has come to flip it on its head Cause there are many things I've learned Some from books and some from girls Some from travelling the world Some from books and some from girls Some from travelling the world Some from conversations And I would likely take a bet That I know things you don't know yet And I would love to let you in If you have the patience When you're ready, when you're ready, I'll be there When you're ready, when you're ready, I'll be there

I'll be there Now we're there Have you ever had the thought that the boy you talked to walk He's a man, an old grown up, and his brain's for picking He's been doing therapy every month or quarterly With a mental uniform, every day is a school day When you're ready, when you're ready, I'll be there I'll be there When you're ready When you're ready

I'll be there I'll be there Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah,