Strangers on a Bench - EPISODE 28: A Dancer's Mind

Episode Date: March 24, 2025

Tom Rosenthal approaches a stranger on a park bench and asks if he can sit down next to them and record their conversation.This is what happened! Produced by Tom RosenthalEdited by Rose De LarrabeitiMixed by Mike WoolleyTheme tune by Tom Rosenthal & Lucy Railton Incidental music by Maddie AshmanEnd song: 'A Dancer's Mind' by BirdyStream it here: https://ffm.to/adancersmind————————————————————————————Instagram : @strangersonabench Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench, where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for you up for that? Do you want to give it a go? Is there a day of the week that you favour? I think maybe Sundays. I like Sundays because when I was younger I used to go to church and that, so I get that sort of like peaceful feeling of, you know, it's a day to enjoy yourself. Yeah. So you used to go when you were younger, but now you don't.

I'm not a Christian anymore, no. Look at that. Like, if you're visited by a magpie, are you someone that says hello to them if there's any one of them? No, do you? I do sometimes, you know. So, how, so why, can I ask why you're not a Christian anymore?

Well, there were a lot of different religions in my family, so it left me free, I guess, to choose which one. And someone introduced me to Buddhism when I'd stopped practicing all religions, and I found that one just seemed to work for me because I'd been a dancer and things like rhythm are very important, not just people talking to me.

So what is it about Buddhism that kind of appealed to you? I think that ability to make your own mind up about things, because you know I chant and that way I can manifest my own wisdom, but there's still all the writings like in Christianity and everything, you still have to listen, but at the end of the day, you can make your own mind up rather than feeling totally guilty if you had a child out of marriage or... Did you have a child out of marriage? No, I got married, but then I got divorced after I had the child. Okay. But anyway, yes, so you can manifest your own wisdom a bit more.

What are you manifesting now, may I ask, is anything you're willing into existence in your life? More encounters on benches. And it worked! It worked. Yeah, I'm trying to be a little bit self-reflective on my, what I think is my own wisdom at the moment. What does that mean? Well, I do think there's a point to Christianity. I mean, I sometimes think in London, I like

it in ways and that, but people have absolutely no moral compass whatsoever. So I do try to go back to some of my Christian sort of morals a bit and not just always go by my feelings. I think it's young people's, I have a daughter, I want to, I don't want her to be changing relationships consistently or whatever, those sort of things. Do you often impart wisdom to your daughter? Is it that kind of relationship you have? I do my best but I have to be very careful. I have a sister who won't talk to me at all

so I don't want our relationship to break down like that. Can you talk to me at all about why your sister wouldn't talk to you? You would talk to her? I'd talk to her, but I think it's because we both went to train to be dancers originally, which is about moving around a lot. You know, so somehow we've got into this pattern where probably the best we can do is slam the door. How is this starting? There was a big jump there between, we both trained to be dancers and now we're slamming the door. Are you saying there was some kind of competition?

Well maybe we didn't talk to each other enough when we were younger, so I'm trying to put out the causes that that doesn't help with me and my daughter. I see. Yeah, yeah. Is there anything that will persuade your sister to talk to you? Funerals. Are there any funerals that are coming up that she can talk to her at? Well, I'm just wondering whether it's to be hers or mine first. Could be someone else. Maybe some distant relative.

Could you invent a distant relative? Pretend there's a funeral and you rock up and it's just you two. Yes, I can't think of a potential. She has an important role to play, this person that might pass away or not She could bring you two together See yes, what I feel like I want to ask you questions you can sorry I'm just I'm always obviously I'm slightly on the front foot with these things But anything you've got feel free to throw at me at any time

with these things, but anything you've got, feel free to throw it at me at any time. So have you got a lady in your life? I do have a lady in my life, yeah. Oh, that's good. She's the mother of my children, which is handy. And how many kids have you got? Only two. I'm humble, too. It's hard in London, I think, to have more. I agree. A third kind of takes you to a whole new level of needing space,

which doesn't really exist. How did the first two happen? Did you discuss it? Oh, not planned. No, no, no. Kind of mentioned, but we had them pretty early. We were 25 and 26. How old were you when you became a mother about

27 Would you have that age? Yes? I think it was well It's just I feel that each generation that goes on like I think my daughter's left it too late and then We just don't know it's unlikely now That you have children Hmm. Oh, it's unlikely now that you have children. Oh, it's complicated, isn't it? And of course, sadly, the biological clock doesn't move with society. No.

No, and maybe we should be following the biological clock more than we do. Although that would be, if we followed it to the letter, we would be having children at kind of 14. Or something. Have you been able to talk to your daughter about any of this? She'll never hear this, will she? I mean, I hope not. Because I don't want to. It would be, I would say, I can never say never. She'd be so, so cross with me.

I mean, what about how old are your children? Mine are 10 and 8. Oh, that's beautiful. Is that a good time? Well, to be honest, it's a bit like nature. It's all... I think it's all wonderful. It goes on forever, but you just got to adapt and change the way you have to let go from the day they were in nappies.

It's just... Like the tree goes on... ...growing. Like the tree goes on growing. Is there anything you wished you had done as a parent that you didn't do? I often wonder if I shouldn't have moved and might have given my daughter a better chance, if you see what I mean, in certain ways. So that means you did move out of London.

No. You didn't. So you should have moved out of London. Well, maybe. Where would you have gone? Well, I might have gone back to Ireland. But then, where are you from? I'm from London.

Are you? And where were your parents? Just all the way through. All the way through. Really? Where were they, where were my parents born? Yeah, where were you? My mother was born in London, my father Australia. Australia. Yeah.

See, it always comes in somewhere, doesn't it? Because my grandparents... What, Australia? No, very few people, if you look back, eventually it goes somewhere else. Oh, of course, yes, it does. Like, my grandparents were from London, but my mum moved over to Ireland. Why did she move? She got a job in a theatre, a stage management assistant at the time, yeah.

So is it a kind of natural progression for you to be into dance? Well the arts. Do you still dance now? Well I teach yoga online a bit, with just my sister, because I've got a lot of sisters and brothers. Oh, how many? Well, I have two half-brothers and two half-sisters, and then I had two sisters, and one sister died

when she was about 24, 25. Yeah. Can you tell me a bit about her? Well, she took her own life. That was very sad, yes. Yeah, which is probably why I started to practice Buddhism. What was she like as a person? What sort of school did you go to? Sorry, I'm just interested.

No, because it's interesting to me. What do you mean, what kind of school? Did you go to school in London? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I went to a very unusual school, a Russian ballet school in Kent. Wow.

So I loved my sister, Dealing, because I only saw her in the holidays. Was she older than you? Yes, but she had a difficult time and she was a bit betruent. Do you think of her often? And when you do, what do you think about? Fair. Well, after many years of practicing Buddhism, being able to chant, because it took me years to even get to chanting for her happiness,

made me let go of all the horribleness and the sadness. And I'm just back to sort of beloved now, because you've just got to move on. You can't change the past, because it can affect the future. Tell me about the, what does a Russian LA school in Kent look like? Oh, it's fantastic. The drive was a mile long. Why is it Russian? Because the two people who ran it were exiles from Russia.

I mean they used to teach amazing people like Margot Fontaine used to go to his classes. What did a day look like at the Russian ballet school? You know it was funny because it was a poor school so it was a mixture between St Trinian's and this amazing Russian ballet training. But we used to begin with yoga before breakfast. And then we'd do ballet, but we'd do folk dance, like Russian dancing, and Spanish dancing. They didn't care if you didn't get any O levels. Well, Madame Legat didn't anyway.

The head barista did, but. How often did you see your parents when you were at the school? I mean, so you stayed, you boarded there? What did your parents do? I can't face talk about my life too much. That's fine. That's totally fine. What did your parents do? So you know about my parents. My father who is now dead, he was a... How do you describe him? Farmer?

Oh, lovely. Farmer in London. No, no, not in London. No, not in London. That would've been fun. He could've watched the City Farm. He didn't work at the City Farm. He was a farmer in Suffolk. But also he was an academic, kind of writer, he loved playing music,

but he wasn't really a musician. Oh, he liked painting as well. He did a lot of stuff, actually. Come to think of it. He was an anarchist and wrote for an anarchist newspaper called Freedom Press. And my mother is still around, and she worked for the BBC for most of her life, doing making documentaries and

various programs as a producer. And then she went to various programmes as a producer and then she went to teach English as a second language after that at a community place and is now retired. Is that what you predicted? Is that what you expected? Well that's fair enough, it just shows how many things we have in common. I mean, my... Is your father a farmer? My mum was a writer. How fantastic. She wrote children's books. Yeah.

That's fun. That was fun. Can you remember a happy memory with your mother? You and your mother. What's bringing to mind? Well, I think our walks up the mountains and the Dublin mountains, yeah, which is probably why I

like doing this. What about you? Happy memories with mother, so they're still being made. Yes, yes. But we did a lot together. She was a single parent. Single parent? Did your dad die when you were quite young? No, no, no, he didn't. They... Split up. Yeah, no, sorry, where am I? I'm sorry, I'm joking. No, no, don't worry. Don't worry. What happened? My father had an affair with my mother. Your father had an affair?

An affair with my mother. He already had three children. Right, so you were born out of wedlock, as they say. It wasn't even close to the lock of wed. Yes. It really doesn't matter though, doesn't it? That's why I think I had to let go of all my Catholic stuff. I think what today's word is teaching us is that we just should be grateful for life itself a bit. I find I'm really struggling with this artificial insemination stuff. I can't, I

find it, because I'm such a nature lover. So what particularly about artificial insemination, why is it on the mind? I'd rather suffer like a situation where people have children out of wedlock and everything and we accept that. Rather than these donors that you happen to clue about or... I don't know what I'm not sure about. But artificial insemination was very close to your mind then. Why is it something that suddenly jumped in? Well I know someone, they went to, anyway they went somewhere, you know, to be artificially inseminated. They actually went with their partner.

But then their relationship started to break down. Dad, they went through this awful wrangle about they had to start paying, you know, like £100 a month if they wanted to keep the eggs and it just, oh. Oh. Yeah, I suppose to play Africa of the inseminators, I would say, you know, what if you don't have a choice, I suppose? I mean, if, reproductivise, if someone can't do it and they want to have... Well, they could practice Buddhism or they could become very religious, become a nun. But practicing Buddhism isn't going to get them a child.

You see, I think because I'm such a nature lover that maybe that's the sacrifice. There's always sacrifices in life, isn't there? Maybe that's the sacrifice we've got to make. Or where are we going to draw the line? So you feel like... You're kind of a let nature take its course. Well, I don't know, no. I balance, I guess, balance. Obviously you've studied dance and you are a dancer. I think you never stop being a dancer surely? No, yes. Actually people often say to me I have a dancer's mind and I do because

we tend to copy people a bit more and do what we're told and there's funny things As a dancer you tend to do. That's interesting. A dancer's mind. I was gonna ask you when you do you When you see people move Are you kind of reading their movement? Oh, yes. Is that kind of, that's a kind of tap that you can't turn off, I guess. That's why I enjoy the Heath, actually. You like seeing people go past?

You can tell so much about someone just by the way they walk. I mean I studied mime in theatre in Paris and so I you know it always fascinates me. We should play a fun game maybe, maybe the next person that passes you can tell me about them from you or from the way they move. Should we play that game? Okay. Yeah. I mean they're not, they're not, here's someone. Okay, here's someone approaching. What do you think as she's walking past? Well, actually, she's a bit, her energy's a bit down in the ground. Yes.

Her label's sticking out of her hat as well. What does that mean? Oh, here's another one. Let's see this one. What do we think of this one? Let's wait for her to go past. Well, no, she's on this one. What do we think of this one? Let's wait for it to go past. Well no, she's on a mission. She's got to get back for lunch or something, hasn't she?

She's on a schedule, hasn't she? Did you have any impressions of my movement as I passed you? Did you remember thinking that guy's in the sky, in the ground, in the trees? Well, amazingly, you didn't defend me whatsoever. And you seemed to catch me at a time where I was very happy to just sit and chat. Good timing then. Yeah, you were amazing actually. Look at that little robin there.

I can't see it. Where, where, where? Oh there, yes I see it now. I always think robins stay for just the right amount of time. You know, they give you a little glance. Yeah. And then they're on. Is there anything you're looking to change in your life, do you think? I want to keep making my life happy. Yeah. I want to keep making my life happy.

Yeah. But is that something that needs to be changed or is that just a constant? I need to work on it because I think I have a tendency to... Well, I don't know. How long have you been married to change the conversation? Or do you want me to keep on people's walks when I'm together? Oh, I'm happy with anything, really. I'm not married. Oh, sorry, you never bothered. Why not? Why not? Why didn't I get married?

Yes. Erm... I need a wee, I need a wee, I need a wee. I need a wee. I need a wee. It's always quite distracting when you have a small child run past you saying, I need a wee. Oh, I didn't hear what they were saying. Oh, they're great. Thanks, Harsha.

How old are they now? Eight and ten. I mean, you were just... I love the book. Thank you for sending me the book. Oh, pleasure. Because I opened it and I couldn't believe it. Oh, Harsha, you're so lovely.

I do miss them. I do think you're one of the great, great teachers. Oh, thank you. Thank you.... I love the book. Thank you for sending me the book. Oh pleasure. Because I opened it and I couldn't believe it. Oh harsh. You're so lovely. I do miss them. I do think you're one of the great, great teachers.

It gives me joy to see you out and about helping the next set of these little ones. Hello sir. Oh they're lovely. Hello. Hello there. How are you? My hair. You've got a sick?

Yes. Oh wonderful. This one. Oh yes. Mommy fell down. You all fell down? Yeah. Okay we need to go because I think mummies and daddies are going to come and pick you up. Oh she'd love to see you.

I'll see you, please give them my love. I will, thank you. I look forward to seeing them soon. Yeah, you too. I'm sure. You too, Harsha. Bye. They're the future. As you can guess, my children went to this forest school. Forest school?

Yeah. Hence, they're all just, you know, bobbing around. My mum went to school in Regents Park. It was after the war and they hadn't rebuilt all the schools and everything. So they used to do it in the open like this. That's the best, isn't it? Mm. If you can. Lovely.

That's lovely. What's the highlight of your dancing life? What moment really stands out when you think of your dancing-ness? I think the two things was because I was amazed with myself. I think doing West Side Story in the West End with the live orchestra. Fantastic. Because I just, the music, the mirrors, like the orchestra and the story. It's just like it's got everything, hasn't it? Well what may I ask when that was? Well it was Bill Kenwright's production, which was in the Shaftesbury.

It wasn't the very original production, but it was the original choreography, which was Leonard Bernstein. And then the other thing was doing the Slipper in the Rose, which was based on Cinderella. But it was like I fulfilled those sort of dreams of doing the sort of all those American movies that you watch where there's the big dance thing and they're running up the walls and you know, Hollywood type movies. Do you still remember some of the moves? Would it come back to you? Yes, it was, I mean, do you know the fantastic thing about that sort of dance is it's a bit like doing something so difficult that you just can't worry about anything else. You mean you just totally have to focus on it?

Yes, yeah. Fantastic. I've got one more question for you. Remember, I've got to end it on the same question. The last question I'm going to ask you is, what are you going to do next? What? Next minute or next hour or next life or next two weeks? You can do whatever you want. Well, I'm going to stay here for a bit. And it's such a beautiful day. I'm just going to soak this up and then I'll walk home

and have some lunch. What about you? What are you going to do? I need to go and pick- A bit of action, yes. I need to go and pick my eldest up from school. There you go. What about the next life though?

Next life, I hope I'm more happily married and I would love to actually, I wouldn't mind living on a farm but I do love dancing, even Irish set dancing and I love Irish music and that. You know I don't want to ever lose dance completely but I could let go the city tomorrow if I had a happy life. I mean you know people if I had that I might not want it, I don't know. Those you love so dearly once Won't talk to you anymore Ooh, one for sorrow Learn to let it fly Can only change tomorrow Leave what's past behind Someday in another life You'd leave the city, west end lights Find love and make home Cause they're forever growing before your eyes

Soon they don't want your advice It's time to let them go Ooh, wild for sorrow You want the sorrow Learn to let it fly Can only change tomorrow Leave what's past behind And as the years go, I think of you and smile And somewhere I'll be dancing, if only in my mind