Strangers on a Bench - EPISODE 31: I Never Cherished Myself

Episode Date: April 14, 2025

Tom Rosenthal approaches a stranger on a park bench and asks if he can sit down next to them and record their conversation.This is what happened! Produced by Tom RosenthalEdited by Rose De LarrabeitiMixed by Mike WoolleyTheme tune by Tom Rosenthal & Lucy Railton Incidental music by Maddie AshmanEnd song: 'Where Goodbye Begins' by Flo PerlinStream it here: https://ffm.to/wheregoodbyebegins Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for you up for that? Do you want to give it a go? What is your favourite day of the week? To be honest I don't have a particular favourite day. Every day is a great day, even if it isn't but it is. Do you know what I mean? I do know what you mean. I think it's a really lovely answer. Okay let's give any random great day then but take me from waking up to going to bed. What happens in that great day for you? Well I'm a Buddhist, I practice a chant nam-myoho-renge-kyo so I start my day with that, with

my morning prayer and on a difficult day I might sometimes miss that because it does take motivation for yourself because you know it's good for you to do and sometimes those things are the hardest things to do when it's great for you. But that's how I like to start my day. I love my work, I'm a hairdresser, stylist, so I come in contact with lots of people, I love people. So it would have that in it,

it would have my wonderful, gorgeous friends, my cat. Always animals, if animals are there, that's me, I'm in my element. I love to make jokes, not consciously, but you know when I'm around people they tend to laugh a lot. Yeah, that's great, well that's magic isn't it? Yeah it is, it really is. So your perfect day involves hairdressing? Well yeah, I mean not just people.

Yeah. People. Do you remember the first haircut you ever did? I do. Who was it? Yeah. People. Do you remember the first haircut you ever did? I do. Who was it? I was in a salon at the time training, and it was a what you call, they would say, it's a model.

We've got a model here for you. I was only 16 at the time, and I thought, oh, she's a model. It's Kate Moss. It's Kate Moss. I was like, oh, she doesn't look like one. I don't mean that badly. But so a model is someone who would come in paid much less for that haircut and yeah that was cool I never made no major mistakes to be honest I was

always very cautious. You weren't nervous? Of course I was nervous but you have someone talking you through anything you're not certain of then they guide you along so yeah there was no major mishaps thankfully. Do you remember the feeling at the end of that haircut? Yes I wanted her out. Is that because you couldn't bear to look at the haircut? No. Or you just didn't like it? No I suppose being under pressure. Yeah. I achieved what I had to do but it was time for it to go. What's I mean obviously people must tell you so many things about their lives. They do, and it's wonderful. Do you feel like it all soaks into you? I think what makes us richer as people is being around other people. I have a lot of compassion.

When someone opens up to me, I open up to them too, because you can compare your experiences. And that's a wonderful thing. If someone's rude to me, on the other hand for no reason yeah that brings out a different side in me because I'm always polite and nice yeah until I sense that you're being funny with me yeah so I have to be more assertive then and let you know I know that you are not being so kind right now

and I'm gonna nip that in the bud yeah it might only done it a couple of times but it did work I remember going into a shop one day and the person behind the counter was so miserable and rude. And I said, I couldn't help it. I said, oh, have I done something to upset you? Which I knew I hadn't. And they said no.

And after that, that kind of- Very clever of you. Yeah, cause I'm not being rude to them. I'm just letting, just wondering what's wrong. Yeah, I really like that. Good tactic. Can you think of like that. Yeah. Good tattoo. Can you think of something that's been revealed to you during a haircut you've just been amazed by?

I don't know, do you know what I mean? Something you've kind of socked into your tracks? Yeah. Something that springs to mind, may sound a bit unusual to you, but I remember cutting a child's hair. She was about seven or eight years old and she started to talk about things that she knew about me and I'd never met her before.

And I was quite aware because I do believe in, well I do believe in supernatural but I also believe in, I lost my mum last year and I've had a few signs from my mum to show me that she's still around. And for years I've always believed in this thing that when someone passes this is just an out of shell and that energy still is around us. And this little girl was saying a few things, never met her before and the mum looked at me and she said she gets it from her nan. She's got like a little gift there. A couple of things she shouldn't have known, but it was fine. I tried not to look too surprised in front of the child. Do you know what I mean? Because she's just doing something natural to her.

There's been many, people are wonderful. They really are wonderful. I have someone that I go to, I cut her hair at home and she's like a lady in her early 70s, but she's at a stage where she's always initially miserable. And I understand her, it's a defence kind of mechanism with her. So when I woke up and I'm not feeling so great, and as I said I lost my mum and I'm still going through those feelings, but when I'm heading down the road to her house I now say

she's gonna be in a great mood she's gonna be in a great mood she's gonna be in a great mood so she opens the door has a face like she's just chewed a wasp and then I go in and within five minutes totally cool I've got to take the lead in that one because I'm going to her house and that's a very intimate thing to do. It is. May I ask you about your mum? Sure. What was she like?

She was wonderful. She was a wonderful, strong, courageous woman. And I don't think, till you lose someone you love so much like that, till they pass, their greatness is more apparent. Completely. When you think about her, what do you picture? Her dancing. She loved music.

My mum was a single parent and I was very blessed to grow up in a household where, you know, my mum worked full time, she cooked everything from scratch and she loved dancing, parties, she, yeah, she was a wonderful woman. Is your, you mentioned your chanting in the morning, has this come recently in relation to those things that you've been doing? No, my mum started practicing Buddhism when I was ten. How amazing. Yeah.

Do you know why she started? Yeah, for many years she'd been Roman Catholic and my brother had a very strict Roman Catholic upbringing and back in the day the church always encouraged you to stay in marriages that were violent and abusive and she did for many years and I think when she managed to divorce him and get out of that she realized that that wasn't for her and I agree and that's with no disrespect I say that yeah so she was working somewhere a friend introduced her to it and it's been in my life for a long time and when I was like 17 18 19 on the odd occasion she was always trying

to get me to chant, chant about this and I was like, I don't want to hear chanting, I want your advice. She was like, go chant about it. And it did work. That was the thing it did. But I wasn't ready to commit at all to anything, like in that sense. But as I got older, mid thirties, I was like, I need something. What was the moment you had that realisation? There were a good few of them. Wasn't just one. Can you take me through any of them? Let me think. I was at a very low ebb. Yeah. I was at a very low ebb and I reckon. Why? Any reason? Many reasons. Too bad. Any you'd like to tell me?

They stem from young. They stem, yeah, they stem from young and how can I put this? I've always been someone that's been great at helping others. For myself, that's always been a harder thing to do. It had always felt like a block. I don't know if that makes sense. That makes sense. So I thought, right, I need something because nothing's shifting here. I've got all these wonderful people in my life, all these wonderful opportunities, and I'm stunting myself.

So I started to chant and it just opened up many things. Energy is everything. I do believe in visualization. I do believe if you consistently say to yourself something, I am great, I am wonderful, or I have an abundance of everything I need, or write it down, make it solid, it works. It really does work. Same as if you wake up in the morning and you say, have an abundance of everything I need or write it down, make it solid, it works. Yeah. It really does work. Same as if you wake up in the morning and you say, I'm going to have the worst day today. You're going to have the worst day today.

Yeah. Because you're going to see everything negative. Yeah. And my glass has always been half full rather than half empty. That's so great. And when you kind of discovered chanting, you know, was that the kind of the end of the low ebbs? No. I suffer with depression. And I'm not embarrassed to say because things I've experienced in my childhood, and since I'm a parent that's why, and I'm not embarrassed about that. So I deal with that because I've had years of it. I know what it's about. So

chanting definitely helps lift your life state, using the mind in a right way. It's about nearly enough tricking the mind. Yeah. Be put. Oh sorry, go on. No, no, please go on. I was going to say, what else helps you when you're in that kind of zone? Yeah, I mean, not that it's always accessible, but animals.

Mm. Their energy about them is always uplifting, unless it's a rabid dog chasing you. That could be uplifting too. You get some exercise in. Yeah, exactly. You get the endorphins up. Yeah, exactly, maybe you should try it out.

Lovely, yeah. What's the most uplifting animal, do you reckon? I don't know, you know, because every dog I see is the best one I've ever seen. So can I ask when you do have, how should I word this, when you have, would you call it an episode? No it's not an episode. What would you call it? A low moment I suppose.

Just a low moment. I tend to shut myself off a little bit. Problem with everyone else? Yeah. Not for long. I film when my energy's off. But I also recognise if I don't change up the energy, then it won't move. And then I know when I move around and I shift,

then everything shifts. Your whole environment shifts. The sun is right in your eyes. It's okay. Weirdly enough when I talk to people I bet the sun tends to follow me around. Really? Yeah. I should have bought some kind of cap. I didn't think of that. Yeah. I used to use my hand instead. Or I just close my eyes. Of course.

Should I close my eyes? That's a good idea. I'll do that. I've still come through. Is that weird? Is it weird to talk to someone who's closed their eyes? Not at all. Especially when there's a big sun in the sky.

That's true. But still it's quite bright. That's what I'm saying. It will come through the eyelids. But erm... Ha ha ha ha ha. Sunglasses are a thing aren't they? I'm just not a sunglasses guy you know

some people are sunglasses people. I'm not a sunglasses person I feel very... Self-conscious? Oh yes. Yeah same I just don't think I'm the I don't think I have the right face. You can always find a pair of glasses for a certain face. Can you? Of course you can. Oh really? You've got to believe that. You have to believe it. Even if it's not true, just believe it. And it will happen. I want to go get a pair of sunglasses after this. It's true. But hats, I mean I wasn't great with hats for years. Felt very conscious with hats. When did you have your hat breakthrough moment? When it was bloody cold.

Oh that's last you said. When it was freezing. I can see that. Yeah, I don't, yeah, to be, hats, I'm not going to lie. I don't want to big myself up. You're quite cool with that. But I'm not bad in a hat. Can you tell me?

Yeah. Depression. For people who are listening to this, there'll be loads who obviously completely empathise and there'll be lots who are like, I don't know what that feels like or I can't really, you know, I can't really, they might be like, well everyone obviously has low moments but obviously this is something beyond just feeling low, you know, briefly. Can you tell me, can you try and describe it? Sure, sure. For me, I suppose depression at times has felt paralyzing, physically. It's not a thing you can shake off. I suppose it feels like a dark cloud coming over.

Is there anything that kind of paces it in? Triggers it? I don't think there is anything that really triggers it, but... I don't know, I've always been hard on myself through my life. Very hard on myself. Why is that, do you think? It's from childhood. I've been very blessed that I've had the insight to get counselling and therapy

because there are many people that live all their life and they die at 70, 80 and they are miserable and they don't know why and they've made other people miserable and they've not had the insight to deal with that. So I think where you can try and encourage people to get help if they suffer with depression or whatever it is. You know, we're here not for us. I really truly believe the experiences

that have been the greatest in my life is when I've been giving. I'm not big on receiving. I'm not good at receiving compliments or whatever it is or gifts. I get embarrassed. I feel like I'm not owed it or due, you know what I mean? I don't feel I'm worthy of it.

I'm getting better at that though. So if you've got a present. I've got a gift. I thought I was searching around the bag. I love it. You're not going to give me gifts. So what's, is Christmas difficult for you? Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, it is difficult. Yeah. Not about getting gifts. Is that what you mean? Yeah. Oh, it's just difficult anyway. Sorry. So why is Christmas difficult? getting gifts, is that what you mean? Yeah. Oh, it's just difficult anyway, sorry. So why is Christmas difficult? Once again, stemming from childhood again.

Yeah, oh God, this childhood doesn't sound great. That's all you're gonna know. Yeah, I know, I don't want it privacy. No, you don't. I mean, I've come back to it a few times, I mean, just it feels like a not a different time. Indeed, I mean, what I've experienced through my years of childhood, people, my close friends,

people say to be where you're at now is a huge triumph. And even, you know, my therapist, she's wonderful. She said you are what I would call the most amazing survivor, you know, and you know I have to say I've been so blessed to have people around me that love me, you know, for so many years. Even though I can be awkward of course, who can't be, but I stand up for justice where I can. My mum was like that. Do you want a light or a heavy question? I don't mind. Either. Either.

Wonderful. Yeah. How have you got on, given that you're... Buddhist? No. Clearly like a very giving person. I'm just wondering how that's affected your kind of romantic relationships in your life. Erm, interesting. I mean I've had a couple of long-term relationships.

One extremely happy one, 13 years, which I left. Just because I'd met him too young. From 18, 19 to 31, 32, I'd grown a lot within that therapy and when I met him I was like frightened of everything was like I didn't trust no one And he helped me trust again and people big time Looking back if I'd have met him at later That would have been you know the one I think, he always had my back constantly and also he was healthy. He did have his issues but he was mentally healthy and after that met someone who wasn't. Okay. So just recently left a 10 year relationship of I left that because it wasn't good enough for me anymore and yeah I've

always been someone that gives too much of everything I don't I never cherished myself enough really so yeah so now I'm happy to be not responsible or worried about anyone it's a great place to be considering all of my life. I've been in a relationship of some form. Yeah. You know? What next? For a relationship, do you think? No. No, just no. Just no. No, no, no. Yeah, no, I think that's going to be off the list for a good while. You know, since losing my mum, my mum had Alzheimer's, she was sick for four years. No, it's bleak isn't it? I mean my father had Alzheimer's too. Did he? I'm so sorry. You know, to see it decline in someone, I actually think it's got to worsen them actually dying.

Do you know what I mean? It's actually to see it in real time. Oh, oh. It's so painful. It's very, very painful and knowing you're on a mean? It's actually to see it in real time. Oh, oh. It's so painful. It's very, very painful and knowing you're on a road where it's never going to improve. Exactly, yeah. And there's nothing, it's not like it's kind of you can't hope for anything. No. Hope doesn't get you just, you know.

Indeed. And I was the only family that was able to care. There is no other family. So it was just me and my mum. It's just you. She lived out of London at the time and I was travelling down and trying to. Yeah, that's a lot. Me and my mum, she lived out of London at the time and I was travelling down and trying to... Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah, and to get her assessed I took four times, four assessments and they're not easy to get, you know, and she, first couple, she slipped through them.

Yeah, she did. She passed the flying colors. How did she do it? So my mum, she was at a stage where she was losing things and hiding things and, you know, on the second assessment she was sometimes not being able to find a way home. But yeah first couple she was very good at you know being funny, saying a few jokes and my mum was very witty. Must have been a lot of feeling kind of wanting your mum to kind of fail, you know what I

mean? Yeah. As you've got a big annoyance. No, no, you're supposed to be. My mum was always one for like, she was very good on the first couple of assessments and I was very frustrated and you know I suppose worried for her. She was vulnerable and It was heavy duty. So those last couple years have been they took the stuffing out of me and there wasn't much stuffing in You can delete that bit.

Best bit? Help me. What are you doing when you feel most alive? That's a wonderful question. I think laughing with people I love. I always say to my friends they've got a great sense of humor because they always laugh at my jokes. No but on a real it is about being with my loved ones laughing. Do you collect anything? What do I collect? Other people's cats? How many do you have? How many cats do you got?

No. No, I've got one cat. My little boy. I don't collect anything, but I always carry crystals with me. Okay. Yeah. Rose quartz I've got on me.

In a bag? Yeah. Do you get them out? Obviously you're kind of getting them out now but how often do you get them out? Do you not get them out on the bus and stuff? No! I don't get them out anywhere. They're just with me. They're just with you? Yeah. It's just about carrying it with. Oh it's the energy? It's the energy, yeah.

It's not like you don't ever have a little pee, sticky, like it's not feeling them or anything? Not at all. No, you don't have to do that with them, it's just about having them close to you. And I'm not, listen, from young I learned not to rely on any other being outside of myself. That's why I don't believe in God. There were many times as a child being brought up Roman Catholic that I prayed to God to come and help and no one turned up. So that's my proof that there isn't. Everyone has their own experiences. It's just my personal. So for me, that's why Buddhism works Because it's it's taking responsibility for yourself It's more empowering. It's this the thing is consistency is difficult. Yes as human beings Yeah, but if we were all consistent all the time, can you imagine?

the greatness? We'd achieve everything we ever, ever wanted if we were consistent. And that is the struggle. What is the next thing you want to achieve? Do you just have an idea then? Then not say it? No. You know, you know, you know, you know, you don't really see something come into someone's head and they go, they just go, oh no I don't want to say it that way. I just saw me on an armchair surrounded by loads of animals, now I'm only joking. I'm joking. No, no.

There's a few things but once again it's something I have to be consistent with. But what is the thing? I want to join a volleyball team. Okay, for no-where. Because I'm lying. Fibbing, my mum would say, fibbing. I was like, okay. Well, I was ready for it. I was ready. I was going to talk about volleyball. You didn't even change your expression, I like that very much.

I'm ready for everything. I can see that, yeah it's good. Maybe you don't care about it now, maybe it's the thing you're calling. No, no, no, come on. No, no, no. You get to do it, you can do it on the beach, beach volleyball. You could do it, but I'd rather run from a rabid dog. Yeah, to be honest there's a few things.

As I said, I lost my mum not too long ago and I left a long-term relationship so I'm finding my fee. You're a kind of 2.0? Yeah. Or whatever it is now. Yeah. Yeah. Four? Five. Yeah, I remember saying to my therapist, it feels like I'm slightly at ground zero. I don't want to use that term. But yeah, and that was daunting at the time I said it, but now I feel that's okay. That is okay and I'm already making tracks to to not be that I really like that sometimes you just have to acknowledge that everything's so different and you are starting fresh I think people feel like something like I couldn't start couldn't yeah because I'm so much of I've done so much I've seen

so much I am so much you know but actually just to kind of be like well you know what this is the new such a new beginning indeed you've not had you've not lived without your mom you know and like it's such a new beginning. Indeed. You've not lived without your mum. No, no. And like it's like, so that in itself is totally new. Thank you. It really is. It's, I remember that feeling of walking down the street one day

and realising that she's not here anymore. Although I feel her with me a lot, you know, but I, yeah, it's really big. But in the same sense, it is interesting and I've drawn strength from it, you know, and I've got wonderful friends, you know, that love me to pieces and yeah, it puts a different spin on life, obviously. But it didn't do me in. I think it, what's the word? A really wonderful thing that one gains from a parent dying also is immediate empathy with everyone else

that has been through it. Do you know what I mean? So true. And then you're also able to communicate with them in a way that, you know, it's like being part of a club, isn't it? Yeah. Until you're in that club, you can't picture what it would be like. You're so right and thank you for saying that because I remember

when I would speak to someone and I'd say to them I lost my mum, their reaction to that loss was big and it kind of although I knew it was big when I heard other people's reaction it just made well it is huge. Do you have any what do you kind of your mother's things or possessions or pictures do you have anything around you? Oh yeah, of course I do. What's the kind of go-to one that you look at? She had this lovely photo taken on a Buddhist course she went two years ago.

They captured my mum, they took a photo of my mum and she was beaming. Beaming, and my mum had a real tough life. To see her get to that stage where she was beaming, so that's the photo I have. Yeah, that's one I go to a lot. And I can hear her say to me, I can hear her sometimes come on now, come on you can do better. Obviously you seem like someone who's a great helper of others. Can you think of, in your mind, the greatest moment of helping other people in your life that really stood out? Or one that you're really happy that you did? It's very... Is it too tricky? It's not tricky. You can just grab it. It's not tricky.

It's like whoosh. There's just so many. No, I'm only joking. I'm joking. I'm joking. You know I'm joking. Well, there might be so many. It sounds like there are a lot.

There are, but I was joking on that. Okay. Well, there are loads anyway. There are loads, but I don't mean that cockily. I know, but you have obviously helped a lot of people. Stop, stop. I'm sounding like Jesus here. Let me know.

It's all possible. Sort of. What? I can't believe you're saying that. I'm not. I'm helped a lot of people. Stop stop. I'm sounding like Jesus here. It's all possible. What that could be Jesus. Someone had to be. He ain't me. I ain't got the right footwear.

Yeah there's there is a few but then that's I'm not I'm not good at saying stuff that I did good. I'm not, that doesn't come naturally to me. That's okay. We just know you have. Is there a question you would like to ask yourself and then answer it? It's quite clear that years of life experience, hopefully we will gain as much wisdom as possible. And what we do with that is vital, it changes our paths. But I suppose the question for myself is why did it take so long? I always knew the things, do you know what I mean? These are things that I knew, I've always known, but just this year, why did it take so long? But then again I think my mum passing was the

You know that major thing in your life which Yeah, it changed things up for me in a way obviously which were extremely painful, but also gave me no choice But to do things a bit differently, do you know I mean by that? Yeah, so we got there though why it takes so long we don't quite know but but also You know, I think people drive themselves nuts so much and I'm an over thinker and it's not always kind But that thing obviously sounds so cliche, but it's okay to not be okay at times You know and to be kinder we must be kinder to ourselves. The surface now, the

outside of us has become the focal point. There's less spirituality and especially for the generations coming up, they're more worried about how do I look, the things on their phone to make them look a different way and it's like no one's looking in as much. Okay last question. Yeah. You can answer this in a really like lightweight or like a grander way. Totally your call. What are you going to do next? Now. You mean or in life? Either. Both. Whatever. No pressure. Both, whatever, no pressure. What do we do now? I think that would be easier.

Isn't that easier? Now I have to go and, not have to, I'm going to go to visit a friend. I've been waiting for her to get in from work, so I'm going to go and see her. She's got her daughter with her and my godchild, so one of my godchildren, yeah. How many have you got? Three. Fantastic. Yeah I'll spend the evening with them probably have some dinner.

And then rest of life? I suppose you could have done that. I like that so cash down rest of life. Probably best to put it lightly like that. I'm only joking um it's hard to answer really but I know I know what I'm I'm volleyball obviously of course thank you for remembering I've got a ball in my bag actually I think you meant like a small ball you've got crystals in there

you might have a ball what do I take it out on the bus or on the land and have a look at it? No. Oh that's bouncy. It's been a pleasure. Yeah thank you so much. Thank you so much. Very good. Yeah really great thank you. That's a really nice off the cast, you know, really really lovely experience. Thank you. Thank you for everything. Yeah thank you that's a really nice off the cusp you know really really lovely experience thank you thank you for everything yeah thank you thanks And there it is, the house you've been building within And there it is, your sense of the world has been shifting And there it is, a picture and a frame on the wall And there it is, she said my mother was beautiful

It's funny in the darkness you can only wonder Facing it all and then you bury it under Oh it's funny how we love so there's not far to fall Nobody has it all Nobody has it all And there it is, your mind can be kind and be cruel And there it is, the grief and the joy can be colourful It's funny in the darkness you can only wonder Facing it all and then you bury thunder Oh it's funny how we love so there's not far to fall Nobody has it all. Nobody has it all.