Strangers on a Bench - EPISODE 35: Vulnerability Is a Bridge

Episode Date: May 12, 2025

Tom Rosenthal approaches a stranger on a park bench and asks if he can sit down next to them and record their conversation.This is what happened! Produced by Tom RosenthalEdited by Rose De LarrabeitiMixed by Mike WoolleyTheme tune by Tom Rosenthal & Lucy Railton Incidental music by Maddie AshmanEnd song: 'Sculptor' by TamzeneStream it here: https://ffm.to/sculptor-soab-----------------------------Instagram: @stangeronabench Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for you up for that? Do you want to give it a go? Is there a day of the week that you favour? A day of the week that I favour? Let's think about this. I quite like Fridays. Solid. Take me from waking up to going to bed. What is a good Friday lived on this weird earth? Well, I can't honestly say that it will differ from a Monday. It's just the feeling. The feeling? Yeah. It's the feeling of a Friday. But my routine is I'm an early bird anywhere between like 6am and like 7.30. It's my preferred wake up start. I'm sort of in a spiritual practice so I will tend to say thank you for returning my soul. Who are you saying thank you to?

I'm saying it to... The cosmos. The cosmos? Yeah. It could be God, it could be... The person next to you in bed. Yeah, it could be that, but it isn't. So I'll get up and I will make a coffee and I will sit with my coffee. It's such a sacred moment.

Not the making of it, the with it. You've made it. I've made it and it's like the savouring. It's really important. You're sipping? I'm sipping, I'm savouring my coffee. You're not gulping? No. How long does the sitting take?

How long could that be, Paul? Well, it's usually about two hours. That's... Not with the coffee itself, because I'm doing some writing as well. Oh, OK. So I'm journaling, I'm writing. That's a long coffee.

It's a long coffee, innit? It's like cold now, and it doesn't taste good. You're sitting with it. I'm just still sitting there, like, sipping my coffee. Nursing a coffee. There's a lot of journaling, a lot of reflecting. Yeah. A lot of writing.

And you're processing various things. And I'm processing. That happened in your life or in the days that have just gone by? Just what's there in that moment. It might be like, oh, I'm reminiscing about yesterday. Or it could be about, you know what, that guy really fucked me off that time

I'm still thinking about that it could be anything. Has someone fucked you off recently? I've been processing the end of a relationship, not necessarily a romantic one but it was just a very intense one. Not romantic? Well it had the intensity of a romantic relationship. Yeah. So that needs processing. How long was this relationship going on for? Three years. Oh that's quite a long time then. Yeah and I knew the person anyway. We knew each other for many years but then we kind of ended up kind of just getting to know each other because circumstances brought us together. It's a lot to process.

It's a lot to process. Is there anything unusual come up in your processing of this happening? Well, actually it started off with like, it was divine intervention. Thank you so much for this ending. Who ended it though? I think I kind of took a pause.

Yeah. And then the person wasn't happy with that pause. But it wasn't a gameplay. Something happened and I was like, the scales fell from my eyes. When you say divine intervention, do you mean just in the timing of that moment in your life or do you mean something did occur that was kind of divine or separate? I think the thing that made me kind of question the relationship was the divine intervention. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does. I didn't know that at the time, but it was afterwards I thought, I'm so glad that happened because the scales fell from my eyes. Can you think of a moment, that moment, where you're like, now I'm questioning it now? Oh, 100%. Because it was a physical reaction. The whole body shook and I was just like, and I think we should not ignore those physical reactions.

Totally agree, yeah. Because we do ignore them all the time. Yeah. Because we want it to be a certain way. So I'm not listening to that, but it was like such a... Is visceral the right word? It was such a like a whole like... Perfect word.

What? whole like what? Obviously, slightly personal question, but what was that thing that made you respond like that? I don't want to give too much away because I don't feel like I want to. That's okay. But it was an interaction, it was a part of something they said. It was a look, actually. It was a look? It was a look.

At you or something else? At me. It was kind of piercing. It was very dark. Interesting. Like it was so dark. Yeah. Was it a quick look?

It lingered, it lingered a bit. It wasn't just like a second. And I actually said, why are you looking at me like that for? And then it was like... Was it a quick look? It lingered, it lingered a bit. It wasn't just like a second. And I actually said, why are you looking at me like that for? And then it was like, the person I knew came back and I was like, wow, what was that? And also it's a look that my dad used to give me from time to time. I've seen that look before and that's why I knew. Oh really?

No. That's a boundary that's crossed. And when your dad gave you that look what did that mean then? I think my dad was a sadist. Really? Yeah. 100%. When you say you think. I know. Yeah and what did he do that made you think that? I mean the sun is shining today. I didn't even need to visit there. It was some dark shit. Yeah. But you overcame it? Yeah, I have.

That was years of process. Yeah. I mean, that was like years and years and years. Is he still alive? No, he passed. How was it, him, of him dying? Um, that, post of him dying? That was kind of strange, because we hadn't been in each other's lives

for many years. And then he was kind of tracked down. Who tracked him down? I think a family member, was just like, what's happened to Dad? Someone woke up, hang on. Dad's missing.

Someone's tracked him down. That's how crazy he had. What's happened to him? And's missing. Someone struck him down. What's happened to him? He had dementia by that point, so he didn't even know where I was. Not at all. What's that feel like? That was strange, but at the same time it was great that we found where he was. Because if I hadn't, I'd be still like, what happened to him?

Is he still kicking him out? Do you know what I mean? found where he was. Because if I hadn't, I'd be still like, what happened to him years later? As he's still kicking him out. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So it's closure, as people say. But you remember the same look that he gave you. I remember that look. If you see a look like that, you'll never forget it.

I was a child. Yeah. Are there any pleasant memories of him? He was so remote, like there was no interaction at all. He just wasn't there? Just wasn't present. I remember, I don't know, you're probably too young to remember, but there was a comedian called Dick Emery.

I've heard of him but I don't remember. Yeah, and my dad used to love him. And I remember one evening we were watching the Dick Emory show and my dad laughed and it was like, oh my god I've never seen him smile before, never seen him laugh. That was really wonderful. I was like oh there was a little bit of humanness there then. That was it, that one time.

Is there anything you didn't ask him that you wish you did? Erm, sort of like why? Is there anything you didn't ask him that you wish you did? Erm... Sort of like, why? Like, what's happened to you that... ..you don't access that part of you? Like, you can't love your family? You don't know how to express that? Like, what's happened? Something's happened.

But I'm a kid, you know? I'm just wanting to play. family. You don't know how to express that. Like what's happened? Something's happened. But I'm a kid, you know. I'm just wanting to play. He's there and I'm surviving. Over here. How do I get to play more without getting in trouble? Do you know what I mean? Where is your mum in all this? Yeah, she was there trying to be a mum and love us all. Trying? Well, no, she did. She tried, but she's also having to navigate this person. She's trying to keep us safe, really. Yeah.

Yeah, I look back and I'm like, man, how did you do it? How did you do it? Did you ever ask her how she did it? It's a really good question you know, probably not. I've probably said, wow, you know, thanks for what you did, but not how did you do it. She's still alive? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, so you could do it. Take stuff. How did you do it? You're right. The opportunity is still there.

It's quite an amazing feat in the sense that you think what you said about your dad, someone that was so other and also kind of impactful, potentially impactful in a negative sense and that she managed to kind of form enough of a barrier between

you and him, to the extent that you seem like a really fundamentally level person. Do you know what I mean? I mean, that's quite, really, that sounds like a real feat. Yeah, man. Of whatever she did. That was, yeah, yeah.

["The Star-Spangled Banner"] That was, yeah, yeah. What are you doing in your life when you're feeling most alive? I haven't been creative. Fantastic. Yeah. What are you making when you're being creative? I'm writing, I'm making music, I'm singing, playing guitar. Can you think of your most euphoric creative experience in your life, or at least recently? You know, recently, I think recently,

a song just came through me. Could you tell me through the situation, like where were you, how were you? I'm just saying, because I, like I say, when I write a lot, I just journal. And so I've done that one morning, and then I remember a song that I wrote years ago, and it was just about a boy riding through town, he's part of a gang

and he's just looking for like next man to hunt down and then I started thinking about fathers. I don't have a father and I was thinking a lot of my people that I know don't have fathers and what effect does that have on us who don't have that sort of divine masculine in our lives? And then, bam, this song came. The chords, the lyrics, the melody, everything. It was just there. I was like... Yeah. Just flew out. Just flew out and I thought someone obviously needs to hear this. It's not about me, it's just someone needs to hear this song. Did people hear it?

Well, I haven't heard it yet because I haven't recorded it. You've got to record it. I mean, I've got to record it. I mean, I do play it out there sometimes if I do open mics or whatever. I need to find the money to lay this track and just share it. Yeah. So that's when I feel alive in those moments. And I feel alive when I'm with my friends as well.

Even now I feel alive. Good, it's wonderful. You just walk past me, and I've been minding my own business, doing my admin stuff. And I've disturbed your peace. Right? And it's stuff which is, I'm just talking to you.

It just suddenly happens. Yeah. It's the magic of just two humans. We're all just here waiting to be spoken to. So you've got the song and you want to record it. What does it mean to you or not? The idea of other people hearing it or reacting to it. Do you need any of that validation at all?

You know what, I don't think it's really about validation. I read something or heard something recently that whatever we create, because we all just say we're all part of the same source. Yeah. Right, we're all here in it together. Whoever creates something, it means someone has to hear it. It means it's for something. Oh, I like that thought.

That's where I am right now. I mean, it's a good thought. I like that. It's like if it comes out of you, it's meant to come out of you for others. I really like that. Yeah But then what stopped you then? Doing that apart from just maybe the money to record stuff. I Guess that's where sort of ego came into it initially Like it has to be the best and it has to be this and it has to be that I guess if you feel like you want to be a creative person,

you start worrying about, oh, I had to work on money and stuff like that. That's the complication of it all. Cause then you start looking at it as a product. Yeah. But then once you get that out of the way, and once you kind of go, it's not really about that. And you've kind of made me think,

you know what, I cannot record it at home. Yeah, you really can. It doesn't have to be studio. It doesn't. And, you know, it I cannot record it at home. Yeah, you really can. It doesn't have to be studio. It doesn't. And, you know, slick. I'm a big believer in, you can record stuff on a potato, as long as the intention, as long as the emotion and feeling is there.

Yeah, yeah, thank you. Thank you for reminding me. I think you can do that. And I think I really like, I so like your point about if it comes out of you, then other people, it's like some divine force wants people to hear that. Otherwise it wouldn't come so quickly. Hello there.

Is there a parent somewhere? No, who knows? That's true actually. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. We're kind of looking for that. I feel like, since I've been a parent now I just always look out for... are you a parent? No, but I hear you. You're still looking out for even dogs.

I'm like who do you belong to? Do you have a dog? I don't have a dog. What do you look after? I look after myself, my mental health. I look after my friends and family. Yeah. Yeah, I look after everybody.

Are you a looker after? Is that like a role? I don't want it to be. Yeah, I mean that's... I don't want it to be like, I would say I'm a looker after. I think everyone should be doing that. This is true. If you're not that in your kind of friendship group, what are you? I think I'm the...

the person who kind of people get advice from I think. Okay, the sage. Maybe, the old crone. Miracle. Maybe. I don't know shit, but I give a perspective I suppose that I think my friends might enjoy. Do you think that's because you're quite, I mean, you're honest with that perspective

or are you just insightful? Yeah, I've got some wisdom I suppose. I can share these. Where does this wisdom come from? I'm trying to work this one out. I think sometimes we know stuff that we don't even know we know. Like I think it is there.

Yeah. And maybe we go through- From the ancestors? Maybe, yeah. Sometimes I know things and I'm like, how on earth did I know that? Yeah. And maybe we go through... From the ancestors? Maybe, yeah. Sometimes I know things and I'm like, how on earth did I know that? Yeah. Do you feel like that's what you mean? I know exactly what you mean.

Yeah. Do you have much knowledge of your ancestors? How far do you go back? I don't really, to be honest. I think that's the father thing that I need to kind of explore. I don't know anything about his immediate family. Literally nothing. I found out a whole heap of information about my grandfather who I knew very little about

about a year or so ago. I think that was quite a moment. I think it was quite impactful and it may have contributed in a small way to me doing what I'm doing now. Okay, that's powerful then. Yeah, but just like more of just a really complete, a complete image of essentially he didn't really spend much time at all with my mum or my uncle as he said kids. And so they never had much to say about him because he didn't really spend much time together.

I talked to my mum about all this and she said, well look, we had a lodger who was young at that time, he used to hang out with the grandfather. Anyway, tracked down this lodger guy now in his late 80s, living in Mexico, all places. That's amazing. And he tells me, and luckily he's really with it, and he tells me all about spending time with my grandfather and what he was like. And he's paints such a different picture to the picture that his children have painted to me. Like a full person, basically. Yeah, you know, yeah, completely.

He looks like a very story. And I think in so many ways, like we don't, that's a sad thing, the view of our parents is so narrow. We see it from being the child. So true. And not from... You know? There's no width at all.

Yeah. Essentially, he escaped Slovakia just before the Second World War, or a couple of years before. He ended up running a kind of underground... I don't know, it was literally underground rather than underground, underground, a kind of check bar for like check service and stuff. So it was a kind of, he had his own bar.

And essentially he was immensely social. And he said the best thing about him was his reading of character and his, you know, what he loved about the bar was all these different people coming in and all walks of life and doing that. You know, just to hear that, you know your grandfather had had that and he enjoyed doing that and was good at it and people came to be in his space because of that. It's like rounding off a circle or something. It's such a good feeling.

Does it make you kind of understand yourself a bit more? Oh definitely. Or at least like where these things may have come from or what have helped. And I do, I'm a bit of a believer in things skipping generations. We're often misguided in the idea that everything comes directly from parents. You obviously, like, you know,

the parents have gone through so many things as well. And sometimes it just jumps. Yeah. You know what, that's very true. Cause my granddad was like, I reminded him of my mum's mum, my grandmother. And yeah, we didn't know her, because I think she died when my mum was born, pretty much. So that used to make me feel quite proud actually.

Yeah, totally, totally some more exploring. I think so. So they're kind of all there to be seen. Yeah, well thank you, maybe that's be seen. Yeah, thank you. Maybe that's why you came into my life today. Maybe. Is there anything in your life, any patterns you're keen to get out of. God, I was working really hard on that. Over your coffee. Over the coffee.

The two hour coffee. You're now making me want a coffee. I was always lacking in belief in myself for many, many years, but I think I've come out of that now. I think you've got me at a good point. What's helped you bring come out of that now. I think you've got me at a good point. What's helped you bring yourself out of that? I think being brave. Because honestly, I've had exorcisms

where I've pushed myself to do things and I am anxious and I am like, like I feel like it's gonna kill me. But I've still done it. I know it's important to come out of my comfort zone. Honestly, I remember when I was off at a gig once. I can't tell you what it took me to get to that gig. Like, weeks of anxiety.

You know, like, when your body thinks it's still in times where you're being chased by lions or something It's like a primitive part of our brains is still Trying to protect you Did you do that gig? I did that gig and it was wonderful. But what I had to go through to get there Honestly, it was it was tough man But I got there. What I suppose the payable thing isn't it, is that when you're performing on that stage where the people are watching, there's no idea. They're all like, oh my god, you're so confident.

They have no idea whatsoever. They're probably cursing themselves, wish I could be that confident. Exactly, you don't know what it takes, man. I don't normally share this at this point, because I it's I never like to jump in too much my own things but I do that now but I I do songs. Oh do you? Yeah. Are you a songwriter? Yeah. Okay. I sing them as well. Oh do you? Yeah, and I'm very lucky to be able to do a tour around Europe, play some big venues. Yeah and to be able to do a tour around Europe, play some big venues. Yeah. And I'm almost exactly that.

Like, if you watch me, if you watch me on a stage, you may think that I was the most relaxed performer you'd ever seen. OK. But I really just try and realise the ridiculousness of what I'm doing. Everyone's just stood stood there watching me like open my mouth and produce kind of vibrations. Yeah. And they're all there kind of looking at me do that.

Yeah. It's fundamentally like such a weird thing in many ways. But what you said really reminded me of that. You had this one performance, but all that buildup. So much buildup. And then actually also there's like that process in the come down of it afterwards there's actually three events that happen yeah people think they're witnessing one event yeah when

they're actually witnessing three. It's so true and the come down you're right I mean sometimes it's quite nice when you're just buzzing afterwards but then I'd be stood up at that 4 in the morning just like I can't sleep, I can't switch off. There's nice buzzes and then there's like when it just gets too much I think. Yeah, yeah. I mean did you enjoy it your time of touring and because I've got this dream of like that's what I'd love to do that because I love it so much I do and actually really started to I'm starting to enjoy performing because I'll try and see it as like it's just community, we're just sharing, I need them, they need me, we're just in it together. I still have to go for

a little bit of like, mmm, okay. But yeah, how did you, did you enjoy it? Can I have a silence when I said that? Yeah, did I enjoy it? There are some really, really amazing moments of it, you know, it's like there might be a couple of thousand people having that like... Mmm, yeah. And those shared moments are amazing. Mmm. I won't lie though, I'll say...

I'll say there are not as many as you'd imagine. OK. Or that anyone would imagine, actually. Right. And they are... That's a lot of mums in a row. That's a lot of mums. What do you call a row of mums? Row of mums. Flock of mums. Yeah, flock of mums in a row. What do you call a row of mums?

Flok of mums. Flok of mums. I wasn't even going to get around that. Quite funny. Sorry, what was I saying? I think it's... God, it's just a funny lie. It's strange.

I remember walking through Prague one evening to get to the venue. It was just the most beautiful evening, summer evening. And Prague just felt so rich and warm and vibrant. And I just remember going, that singing feeling of like, about to go to a dark room. You know, kind of, there are these funny feelings where you just don't... I don't know. It's funny because no one's ever mentioned that before.

Because I can imagine that. Yes, doing a gig is the prize, some people think, but you're actually walking through this life and then you go into that dark... Yeah. Yeah, that makes that... kind of puts a different spin on it. But did it happen quite young for you? So I actually... So I'm wondering if that's a factor?

Just a sicker guy walking past with the sound of silence. I know. The irony of listening to sound of silence out loud is pretty special. And what we were just talking about as well. A pumping sound of silence. Yeah, I mean I got, I learnt a lot brilliant. Yeah, I mean I got... I learnt a lot. And I actually, I mean I haven't played for a couple of years.

I probably will do it again. I was going to say, will you do it again? And when maybe the time is right, when your body's like, yeah please, let's do it. And I'll try and be a bit more careful with it. You know what you could do? I can't want to hear what your voice sounds like. How am I going to hear what your voice sounds like? You're going to have to check me out in social media,

ain't it? You're going to have to do it. Is there a question you don't like being asked? That's interesting. I'll flip that one around there. Don't worry, I'm not going to ask you the question. I'm actually trying to think. I don't feel super comfortable actually about talking about my family.

I'm surprised that I kind of went... You failed with that one. Do you know what I mean? But that's testament to you, because you're relaxed. I'm sort of in a relaxed place, the sun is shining. And he obviously needed to do it. That's a barrier. You leapt over that with a plomb. I did. I used to not

like being asked do I have kids. Yeah. That used to be a bit like, but you asked that and it was so cool. It was just like no I don't and that's cool. Yeah. I wanted it and it didn't happen and there was a lot of sadness around it. But I've done the work. That's why now it's just like, I'm cool. Yeah, no, I don't. And that's all right. Are there any kids generally in your life? Well, you know, I'm an auntie. I had lots of nieces and nephews,

but they're all kind of grown up now, actually. What kind of auntie are you? What's your auntie tactics? I'm like the cool auntie. Nice. You are cool, generally. Well, thank you. So that's it. I'm not surprised you're a cool auntie. I'm like the cool auntie. You are cool, Germany. I'm not surprised you're a cool auntie. I'm just a cool auntie, I'm just there. They want to chat. I'm here guys.

Even though some of them are still at the edge of life. What are you doing? Not much. Okay. So how's things? Fine. You know. That's cool as well. We were all there, weren't we? Do you remember being there? Yeah, definitely. Sometimes it is were all there, weren't we? Do you remember being there? Yeah, definitely. You're just like... Oh, I just do. I mean, but sometimes it is just not much, isn't it?

Yeah, that's true actually. I'm actually doing anything. I mean, I've spoken to... I don't want to be too dismissive of some of the people I've spoken to on benches, but, you know, now again, you do get some, you know, younger people, especially men actually. Younger men who just don't have much to say for themselves. Oh, so I was carrying a massive fan. It's not that hot. It's not even that hot. Weird moment, I thought it was on. I thought it was spinning but it isn't. Going back to young men though, do you think young men do have a world in them but they just don't know how to... Get it out of them.

They don't know how to get it out, do they? Yeah, of course. They were a bit embarrassed. Well, that's it. I think that's it. There's a bit of shame for young men. I feel sorry for young men, actually. I'm feeling for them.

Yeah. I mean, what's telling is just the male suicide rates are just insane. They're insane, man. I think it's the biggest killer of men under 40 or something. Of everything. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's just wild. What's happening?

I mean, it hurts as well. Having intense feelings actually physically hurts. Yeah. Like I was talking about my experience about performing. It can feel awful. Like it can feel like so much pain in the body. It just feels horrible. So I can see why people get to a point where they're like, I can't feel like that anymore. I just don't want to feel like this anymore.

I do think men in the community need to step up. Men. I think you guys have got to do a bit more work. We talk about fathers as well, don't we? We need to break the cycle. I think men do have to step up for each other. How widespread from your experience do you think kind of a lack of fathers is? I think it's a big deal. I think it's a big thing. I just know that so many who don't have dads, either they're not physically there or if they are there they're just like, I'll speak to your mother. You know what? Yeah. It feels like a big thing.

I think we're also on the old cusp of a culturally shifting mode towards fathers being more present. We're just figuring that out. Yeah. Thanks for saying that, because I do think it's changing. Yeah, I think it's changing. I think there are a lot of, especially when young men, maybe when they've gone past their adolescence and they're more sort of late 20s, they seem different actually. They seem a bit more conscious. So I do think it's changing. I love the perspective

of men a lot of the time. I always go to a guy and say, what do you think of this? Because I'm in the feelings too much and they'll be like, and I'm like, thank you. You've just made me grounded. I feel grounded now. I seek it out, so we do need more. Yeah. What do you want from your next partner? Are you looking? You know what, I am always open for the right person. I'm not necessarily looking, like sitting around like, do do do do do do do do do do do do do. The guy with the fan though, I think I'm getting hot these days. He would be a good match. I'm looking for somebody who's just like, who just sees me I suppose, you know, he's like yeah I get her then you become more

of yourself with somebody yeah and vice versa but then I think the more you are your real self that's what you're gonna attract the right person because we're all kind of trying to be someone else aren't we well I've probably have been trying to be someone else so they're just attracted to that version of me not who really I am so that's when it goes wrong. You see, you mentioned you tried on other personalities. Like, what have they been like, the ones you've tried on? Like, who have you wanted to be? Like, who have you presented as?

Well, I think I was always attracted to really charismatic men who were a bit shiny, a bit sassy, a bit the strong, silent type, who don't know how to express themselves, who are a bit sassy, a bit the strong silent type who don't know how to express themselves, who are a bit angry. They've almost got this rain of anger. And who have I been? I guess I've been sort of a similar character. Not angry so much, but I've been a bit shiny as well. But actually there's a very vulnerable side that I've never wanted to show. And there's a story behind that, you know, when I'm a kid I'm surviving, I've got to be tough.

I'm a Londoner. But I didn't realise actually vulnerability is the way to... That's the bridge to each other, really. But I was never that person. I was like, no way, I'm going to be vulnerable. Hell no. But actually that's just the softening is where you really, yeah, so I'm learning to do that now, most definitely, yeah. You're so right, vulnerability is a bridge, is a really good line, a really good sentiment. It's right, isn't it, the thought that like,

vulnerability is strength. So it sounds like an oxymoron, but actually it is. All the superheroes you grow up with and all that stuff. Exactly. Did Superman cry, did Superman cry do I mean? Any of these superheroes shed a tear at any point? I mean, I guess Superman's vulnerabilities Clark Kent I mean that he's supposed to embody that side But we don't really respect cut king that much. Do we we just like we want Superman. We don't want Clark Kent and his silly glasses So, yeah, it's still not seen as We want Superman. We don't want Clark Kent and his silly glasses. Take the glasses off. Just, we want Superman.

So yeah, it's still not seen as a strength, you're right. Um, what's a good pronunciation question? You want a light one or a dark one? A light one. Yeah, that's good. Can you think of the most exhilarating moment of your life? Yeah. You can?

Yeah, I can. Okay, wonderful. Hit me. Well, now I remember when I was at art school and I was given an opportunity to go to America to do a, what do they call it, like an exchange student type thing. I'd never got on a plane before, I'd never kind of left home before, but I was just like, there was something in me that's like, yes, just say yes and worry about what happens afterward.

And I remember sobbing at the airport, just like, oh my god, I'm so scared. I was terrified of what was ahead of me, but I did it. I got on the plane. I got there, and it was like the beginning of my life. Like, it was the... I even feel it now. I almost feel like crying. It was just like, what an experience that was. And it was like a spectrum of emotions.

I mean, it was difficult. It was just like the initiation. what an experience that was and it was like a spectrum of emotions. I mean it was difficult, it was it was just like Initiation, my initiation from adolescence to being an adult. Yeah, and it was exhilarating. I think everybody needs, I think in the West You know like, because I'm reading a book about, about initial, like an African shaman initiation, and lots of indigenous cultures have initiations from adolescent, they mark it, they mark it, and I think that's what's missing in the West. I think everyone needs

an initiation into adulthood, because I do see a lot of adolescents in adult bodies. Interesting. I see it everywhere. Yeah. And I think, yeah, we all need that. And that was mine. And honestly, I'm so grateful that I had that experience. And it was incredible.

I felt, it's the most alive I've ever felt. I haven't, I haven't felt that before since, to be honest. Which makes me feel a little bit sad. I think I was, you know, because I'm still alive right? Very much. Or am I? You see people. Maybe you've got to go on an adventure. Yeah, I'm definitely getting a calling for travel. I need to leave. Is there someone that feeling again? Yeah, I need to go back out into the world. That's a really good answer. I'm totally summon that feeling again. Yeah, I need to go back out into the world. That's a really good answer. I'm totally with you on initiation.

If you think about in our society now, what they think initiations are like, starting as secretary of school, go to university, first job. Yeah, buying a house. All these things are nothing to do with who you are. Yeah. That's a bit true.

So it's all just kind of like whatever. It's all designed to kind of embed you further into a already shit structure. Yeah. It's just grooming us to be the workforce. Yeah. And that's it. Yeah. So last question for you.

Richie, you can either answer in a grand kind of way or a mundane way. Either one's absolutely fine. The question is, what are you going to do next? What am I going to do next? I am... what am I going to do next? Such a... what a question. Well in the moment I'm just going to savour this experience. What an experience. I saw you and you were with other people.

I thought you were with that other group of people and you just kind of like it was like a kitten coming out of the flock saying take me home. I love that. Who the hell is this? What the hell is this guy? Because I could easily be just like you know what not today mate. You could have done. Some people do.

But it just felt right and you just have a nice presence. Quite wholesome but there's a soul depth there or something. Is there something there? Is there something there? I don't know but I want to say for this, but in the long term, I'm going to record that song. Do you? You've got to do that. I'm going to record that song. I would love you to send it to me if you do.

Yeah, I will. I will record it and get it out there. And I'm going to start thinking about that adventure. Yeah. I think that really needs to happen. I think you've cemented it. Thank you. It's been cemented in this moment. That needs to happen. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for saying yes. I'm so glad I did. Thank you for asking. And for taking your time. It's been an honour.

It's been an honour for me too. Thank you. It's a great thing that you're doing. Oh, you're very sweet. No, it is. It is. Mmm, no it is. It is. How you effervesce, there's a world in you Green like a spring bud, warm like the same blood Face sad'd not forget You carved it with your own hands Must be a sculptor Did you get some of your kindness from your mother? If you have the time could you stay longer?

I know that there's more to learn Cause there's a world in you Slow in the moment, holding a memory With children playing games, there's a world in you Perfectly human, how do you do it? Strong and soft and safe