Strangers on a Bench - EPISODE 43: The Definition of a Mystery

Episode Date: July 7, 2025

Tom Rosenthal approaches a stranger on a park bench and asks if he can sit down next to them and record their conversation.This is what happened! Produced by Tom RosenthalEdited by Rose De LarrabeitiMixed by Mike WoolleyTheme tune by Tom Rosenthal & Lucy Railton Incidental music by Maddie AshmanEnd song: 'Certain Uncertainty' by Richard WaltersStream it here: https://ffm.to/uncertaincertaintyListen to all the end songs featured on the podcast (so far) on one handy playlist:https://ffm.to/soabendsongs------------------------------Instagram: @strangersonabench Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for you up for that? Do you want to give it a go? Is there a day of the week that you favour? You know, it's probably not a weekend day. Maybe I go for like a Tuesday or a Wednesday. Straight in the middle there? Yeah. If you had to choose between those, what would you choose? Tuesday.

Okay. In as much detail as you feel comfortable sharing with me at this early stage in our meeting, can you take me through a ideal Tuesday lived in the world for you? I work kind of irregular hours, so I wake up slowly. You're not a spy. Well, yeah, I'm not supposed to tell you that yet, am I? Yeah, I wake up kind of slowly, have a coffee, have some breakfast with my girlfriend, I

might go for a walk, I might play my guitar, but it's not all about doing for me. I like to find moments in my week where I can just kind of be in a pleasant way. So thinking- It's the absence of events that makes Tuesday potentially... Exactly, exactly. Yeah. And are there any particular rituals related to the absence of events that you make sure you do? I think the slow morning and coffee and having a chat with my girlfriend, having some yogurt. The yogurt is very important. When you have a chat with your girlfriend, where do you start from? How does one talk to a girlfriend?

It just happens, doesn't it? We like talking about other people. We like inventing elaborate stories about what's going on in other people's heads and why they do the things they do. Most of it's probably bullshit, but it's quite fun. We might talk about work, we might talk about the things that are coming up. Can I tell you about the things that are coming up? Yeah, you can tell talk about the things that are coming up. Can I tell you about the things that are coming up? Conor O'Brien Yeah, you can tell me about the things that are coming up. Mark Threlfall

The baby, our baby that's due in the end of August. There's a lot of planning around that at the moment. Conor O'Brien Bambino. Mark Threlfall Bambino. Conor O'Brien First one? Mark Threlfall First one, yes. Conor O'Brien Fantastic. Obviously, a lot of questions I could ask about Bambino. What question are you not being asked?

I've not been asked where I'm going to send him to school, ideally, which is good, because I don't have an answer to that question. So you know the gender? I know the gender. Yeah, that was a big debate, actually, whether we'll find out the gender or not. Was that one of the morning conversations?

That probably morning, afternoon, evening, middle of the night. What swayed it in the end? Well, I think for my girlfriend, she was thinking about that just incessantly and trying to work out what it was as if there was some way for her to know without us being told. So yeah, it was that and I think we're a bit worried that we might get attached to the idea that it was one thing and then it would be the other and then there'd be like a moment of disappointment or readjustment. So if we could preempt that.

And actually it was nice when we found out because we felt maybe a little bit more connected to our child already. It was like less of a... It was already here. I like it. My general theory about people deciding whether or not to choose gender is often I think people are looking for an element of certainty in a very uncertain process which I completely understand. Yeah. Yeah I've actually experienced both sides of not knowing and knowing. Interesting. How was that for you? Not knowing, kind of fun. I always think you're going to, you always taught a lesson in some way, however way you play it. I think with the first one, as with a lot of first births, obviously you don't want to freak her out, but they tend to be more complicated than second births on the whole. Don't have to be, but can be.

It was a quite complicated birth. In the end, there was lots of people in the guita around sorting it out. Then by that point, I just didn't give a shit. Are they fine? Then, oh, it's a gut. whatever. Just didn't care. And I was taught a lesson there, which was like, I cared about it a lot, and ultimately, when it came down to it, I didn't care about it at all. So it's slightly wasted energy.

And then I found out for the second one, and then we found out for the second one. And that, again, was a lesson, in that first was the girl, then of course you're like, oh, it, oh be good to have a boy wouldn't it? This is even it out found out I got to go, you know, you're Okay, well fine, you know, but obviously there's a kind of hint of disappointment You just you know in the head you think about some kind of dream balance, which is probably very culturally Associated balance which is bullshit really, but you just, you know,

it's in us, it's in us, the thing you're like, oh boy, there you go, that kind of completes it, whatever. And then, the second one came out, and she just, you know, as a human, just a complete tour de force. Right. Completely different, often you think, in the second one you think, oh I'm just going to,

oh great, because then I'm going to go, I'm going to get a clone of the first one. Yeah. Again, lessen, I thought one thing, I got another. I think that's maybe a theme with children generally. That seems, and life. Life, you're exactly right. Anyway, that's enough of my babiness, back to your baby time. Planned? Mark Threlfall Yes, planned. Conor O'Brien Both of mine not planned. When it is planned, what does that process look like to you? Not a too intimate question,

but what does that mean? You just woke up and say, okay, we're doing it. This is it. This is it now. Then you just do it. Mark Threlfall – Pretty much. Conor O'Brien – What is that sex like compared to normal sex? You know what I mean? It's obviously, it changes the dynamic, right? I won't go into actual specifics, but it was different, it was different. I think it changed. Took us about three months,

it happened quite quickly, relatively, I think. We started, we're kind of like, yeah, let's just, like, it'll just happen naturally, and then it didn't, and then we were like, okay, we need to be mechanical about it, and have like times and things, and then let's just like, it'll just happen naturally. And then it didn't. And then we were like, okay, we need to be mechanical about it and have like times and things. And then that didn't work. And then we kind of came to some balance in the middle.

And then I think that kind of facilitated maybe a deeper level of connection than we'd had before, which wasn't to say that we were lacking that, but I think it felt a bit more special than actually we conceived on my birthday which kind of which was a nice little touch as well. That's absolutely lovely. Can you tell exactly when, are you pretty sure? We used ovulation sticks so presuming that they are accurate which maybe they weren't, That was the only time that we had sex. So let's say we didn't,

and then we can keep telling a story. It might not be true. Look, it's worth it for the... Stories are more important than the truth, you know? Exactly. I am quite intrigued about people's conception of stories and how we're not that fussed about it, but actually that's literally how,

the act of how you've come to be in the world. Do you know anything about your, you're the one you're the one that got you on this bench? No, I actually don't. Has that made you more intrigued about it? In a way. And then there's a lot of me that's like, really don't want to go there. Because what if it was just something amazing that's really connected to your life, like up a tree or something?

You know? I'm not saying your life has been up trees tree, although it might have been, who knows, but just saying what if it was something particular? There's some pattern that helps you understand something. Yeah. It's got to be something. It's got to be something, for sure. What's your what's your rogue without, again, having to do with haunting thoughts about your parents, but what is your roguish possible scenario do you think they could have conceived you in? This is all rogue right now. This is all rogue. I mean roguish possible scenario that's coming into my head right now is in the back of a safari vehicle but given that neither of them have ever actually done that, that probably increases the

element of rogueness. Sorry, rewind a bit. They haven't been in the back of a safari vehicle. No, but that was just what popped into your head. Oh, that was popped into your head. Sorry. I mean, you said rogue is possibly a safari. Although it's not actually possible, is it? So, I didn't quite answer the question. With like monkeys banging on the window or something. Exactly, yeah. Elephant tusks to avoid. Maybe it's what you need to do for the second child.

Yeah. If there is one again. I'm dropping a head here. We've got to get the first one sorted first. Exactly. How preoccupied are you with thoughts of child as you go about every day now? Very preoccupied actually. with thoughts of child as you go about every day now? Very, very preoccupied actually. Give me a percentage.

I would say, I mean, fucking hell, 50% of my thoughts relate to child and I think there's some subconscious thing ticking along pretty much all the time. Yeah. What's the biggest preoccupation for you when you're having your thoughts about the child? Well the anxious one is kind of the most boring possible answer, which would be money and stuff like that, and how I'm going to look after it.

You don't need any. Do you not need any money? Flotterist. Huh? Flotterist. No money required. Sorry, this is a great, unique chance for you to get out of my weird child theory.

I don't think you do need any money. You do, sorry, you do, but I think people really forget a few key bits here. All the stuff that people buy, you can buy in the first few years is complete bollocks. Like, you don't need a fancy push chair. They literally wear anything, it doesn't matter, you don't have to dress them in, you

can find any sort of stuff in a charity shop. They don't care, no one else cares, they just need to be warm. They don't need that much food. They go out so much less than you ever have done. We're talking, you're just going to slash, slash your going out by like 98%. And if you think of what most money has been on. You're talking to someone who said, Tuesday doing nothing was their favorite day of the week. That 98% might be a bit less than most people's lives. That's a really good point.

But no, I get you. I get you. You know, on the whole, I think actually for the first few years, money isn't much consideration. Well that's good to hear because I think we sort of felt like that actually and then other people came and put stuff into our heads. You mentioned societally enforced ideas and I think actually it's not so much actual practicalities but the idea that my life has to look a particular way.

But it's sort of some archetypal notion of how a father should be in the situation that he should be in, that suddenly, I wouldn't have thought I'd bought into, but it's suddenly kind of flared up. Oh God, yeah. So I think that's more like what I'm grappling with. Fatherdom now is a changed game entirely anyway.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like we're standing on the dawn of a, or standing on the dawn, with dawn, we're like, we're at eight o'clock in the morning. We are like past the dawn of a new father time. Yeah. So it all is quite fresh. Who are the figures who are saying the stuff?

No, see no one's told me, I have to like become a banker or something, no one's told me that. But it's people, I think people are quite negative about parenthood a lot of the time. It's almost, that's become like a kind of trend, it wouldn't necessarily have to be the case, but it is. And just people, I don't know, making comments about,

oh you think it's not gonna cost anything, but actually it would be this and that and the prams a thousand pounds. It's way to the shoes. Exactly. We've been given a free pram by someone so that one's sorted. This is just neighbors who had them and they were like well you know we don't need them anymore so. Can they do childcare as well at some point? We're lucky with that. Both parents live like just across from each other in South West London. Very handy. Very handy. Grandparents are very complicated things. Yes. Like too much bad, too little bad, that bit in the middle. Yeah, the grandparent appeasement

sweets. Yeah and suddenly they all get new roles and you've got to figure out the entirely new dynamic of how it all works. Absolutely. And I think often mothers feel like they have to be incredibly present, the kind of nurturing side of them comes back and they're, here we go, we're on. This is what I've been waiting for, we've waited a lot of years. The nurturing side comes back or it might actually appear for the first time. That's a lot of people say that, don't they? They're like, well why the fuck,

why don't you like this one else? Yeah, good point. Any other anxieties? What are you excited about? Maybe we shouldn't talk about anxieties anymore. Yeah, I'm just- What are you excited about? I'm excited about having my own family.

That excites me, that feels good. I'm excited about meeting him and being like, who is this person? Who's he going to be? What's he going to like? And then I guess I've painted this kind of rosy picture of the future that I'm excited about. Yeah, and I'm just, I think for me, the biggest thing is just like, I'm 35 now, I've kind of done being the main focus of my life and I'm kind of really looking forward to this shift, perhaps naively, but thinking about myself in a different way. But yeah mostly I think it's just about finding out who he is and like getting to know him and it's just such a mystery isn't it?

It's the definition of a mystery, you have no idea what's going to happen. Completely. And I think also in a world of like you know where there's this answers being thrown at our self-righting centre, an impending baby just it's none of that. That's what I was going to point to. You said it's about trying to find certainty in an uncertain. It's like completely the antithesis of like how we're all trying to live right now, isn't it? So that's something I actually maybe I find that quite exciting too. You said you're looking forward to not thinking about yourself as much. Yes. What stage have you got to in your life about thinking about yourself?

Now we're about to say goodbye to you thinking about yourself as much. What was it? Man, I don't know how to answer that without unpacking pretty much everything. Well, you can start if you want or I know it's difficult. I found life quite hard. I know everyone finds life hard. I found it hard to find my place and to make things flow for myself in the way that I might have wanted.

I guess I've spent a lot of time agonizing over things like that and it's not that helpful. The amount of agonizing isn't proportionate to the amount of progress, probably the opposite. So I'm looking forward to, yeah, my focus being somewhere else, I'm kind of a bit bored of myself at this point in time. Yeah, I think that's very nicely said. Without thinking out too many grades,

what has been the key agonizing periods of my life? Yeah most of it. The whole package. Yeah which is not to say there hasn't been loads of good stuff. So what have you found Hart? Yeah I've always had a lot of stuff that I've wanted to express in various ways that I found it really hard to do, found it hard to get things out of me. And I've also just had a difficult brain to work with. It's a bit tricky, you know, mental health stuff and things like that. And then adult stuff, like being consistent in careers.

I've done a lot of different things. I'm a chef at the moment, but there's been other things I've really wanted to do and haven't been able to make work. I guess classic existential things combined with a tricky brain. I've got superb news for you, which is having a child is just completely the best thing for that. Yeah, everyone's said, lots of people said this. Just ideal. I just think you know, okay It's like controversial point to make maybe but I do think now again in the what in our world

We just think about ourselves too much. Yeah, and I think I think it actually as you've just very nicely put about Agonizing that hasn't made the portion any more great difference in the amount of you that can buy hasn't really changing I just think that's the case mostly across the board the amount that you've had to live hasn't really changed. I just think that's the case mostly across the board. You know, it's really important to think about yourself and to do the work, whatever you want to say. It can be really important. It also, there's always a point at which

you're just going up against the wall and rebounding further each time. I just think we live in the world where there's just too much thinking about yourself. There's not enough just like looking out on action. I suppose the beauty of babies is you just have to just bloody do it. It's just there and it's the focus.

It's just reached straight out of you into something else. Yeah, that's what I've been hoping. I have noticed that people who've struggled maybe a bit more have found parenthood transformative in a positive way. And maybe the people who've just sailed breezily through everything have found it more of a challenge and so it's good to hear you say that thank you. Absolute pleasure. Is there anything that you're

worried about losing? Yeah of course because you're still carrying these parts who just want to not have to commit to anything, not have to have any responsibilities. So yeah, there's reluctant feelings at times, but like you said, you've just got to do it, haven't you? And I think the overwhelming feeling is positivity and anxiety and reluctance actually. Is there one that dominates? I don't know. How are you feeling about the birth? Oh fuck that. That scares the shit out of me. She's like oh it's gonna be amazing and I'm like fucking terrified of it. That's the better way round. Yeah. Of Yes, but I'm fucking shit scared about that.

I just can't get it through my head, how that happens, but it does and I know that. I obviously want it to go really, really well for her. I don't really know what to say about bursts, but other than like, they're absolutely mad. Yeah. It's a really weird role that you will play. It's like impossible to prepare for that role. I think you just feel incredibly useless. Yeah. And you kind of realize a lot of things

about like the whole of humanity. Yeah. You know? Like what? Well, just about how useless men are. Just like, you're like, you feel so redundant. Yeah. Like what? Well just about how useless men are. You feel so redundant. You're just there going like, go on. Obviously not like that. Just to give you a rough idea, all I remember is that my ... I say all I remember, I remember a lot of stuff. The birth labor lasted ages. It was a really slow one. There's lots of Swiss and Spanish, so the first one talking.

And I remember my mum, at some point she made me some cupcakes. Okay. And I just met her outside the hostel to get the cupcakes and just run back in. And I was just stuffing my face with cupcakes. And I was just thinking, at that point I was thinking Christ like it is different it's just wild yeah that's what I've heard you know I'm probably over talking over kind of giving you stuff are you finding everyone wants to tell you their kind of great advice is that annoying? No I don't find it annoying I like hearing different people's perspectives on it

yeah I the stuff that you're saying is the stuff that I actually like to hear from people it's more annoying. I like hearing different people's perspectives on it. Yeah, the stuff that you're saying is the stuff that I actually like to hear from people. It's more resonant with sort of the way that you know I like to think about things. Yeah well I hope it goes as soon as possible. Thanks man, me too. I'm gonna say this, and it's obviously my personal belief, but I think being a parent is just the most incredible thing. I think people are a bit shy of saying that. Nothing compares to it of its type.

It's a way of guaranteeing your life is never boring again. Anyway, maybe I'm over the go about that. No, I really appreciate that actually. I really do. And now I'm going to ask you about being a chef. Okay. Park the baby. Let's park the baby.

Park the baby. Oh, you're waiting a call. I'm okay. So where is she now? Having a midwife check up thing. You opted out? For this, because this one's just a lot of like, doing like blood tests and things.

Yeah, you don't need to be there for the blood test. I've been to every other scan just so, just so you know. Okay, let's talk about you being a chef. Okay. Because you're a chef. I am a chef. And you've done lots of different things in your life, none of which we know of yet, but we know you're a chef. Okay. Cause you're a chef. I am a chef. And you've done lots of different things in your life, none of which we know of yet,

but we know you're a chef and that's what we're currently doing. Yeah. Do you think you chose chefing, you know you said you, Yeah. You, it's relentless work, you know, it's like a buzzword for us.

Do you think you chose that because of the brain you have? Do you think that's like good for you? Yeah. So there's obviously, I got obsessed with cooking when I was like 24. And- What happened at 24? I got obsessed with cooking when I was like 24. And- What happened at 24? I got obsessed with cooking.

Ha ha ha! Brilliant. And yeah, so there was the thing of just like really loving cooking and working with food and vegetables and like the sort of natural thing. It was, I guess, like grounding to me in a certain way, which is ironic because then when you go and do that professionally it's like the exact opposite of that which I think a lot of chefs struggle with actually but yeah I do think the intensity and the focus was was something

that helped me get out of myself and I think if you're someone who feels like you struggle to get enough done and then you're thrown into this environment where you can just tick off task after task after task and finish the day feeling like you've done so much. Yeah, maybe there was something in that that was appealing to me, I haven't really thought about it but yeah satisfying, it is satisfying and you know you're being constantly evaluated. Yes of course, everyone's judging. The whole time. Yeah, I don't really think about that.

Which can be hard as well. How, where are you of that judgment? From customers, not really. It's fairly rare that people complain about things. Yeah. The main evaluating judging force is, you know, unsurprisingly me. It's the pressure, it's the idea that you're going to let fuck something up or let something down.

I think that creates quite a lot of pressure. In your time of chefing, can you recall a most joyous moment? What comes to mind is more just times I just had so much fun with the people I was working with. I'd stand around all day making stupid jokes and taking the piss. Is there a lot of shouting? Not in the places I've worked. Have you shouted at all recently? Not that much, but I've definitely done lots of shouting and arguments in my relationship, which I probably wouldn't want to do, but it happens. It does.

But yeah, not at work. How do you generally release anger? Do you have any methods? I don't have techniques that I use. I think anger is important. But releasing it, also important? Or not really? Releasing, what, not really? Or is letting it, I think anger is important. But releasing it, also important? Or not really? Releasing, what, not?

Or just letting it, I suppose actually you are, I mean it's, it simplifies it within you. I think expressing anger is important. And I think that anger shouldn't be judged, maybe as much as it sometimes is. I don't think we should feel ashamed of it. There's a difference between anger and violence, and there's a difference between anger and abuse and attacking and I think it's important to express anger and

obviously those other things we really want to avoid that. And do you get angry at work ever? I don't get angry with other people for making mistakes. I got angry the other day at work because Someone jumped in on what I was doing without Asking me in a sort of passive aggressive way About implying that I wasn't doing it right. It was a very simple thing And what was the thing that they thought you weren't doing right? So I've just started working in a friend's place and one of the things that is a kind of salad and a friend's place and one of the things that is a kind of salad and it's really just like some Lee's dress with a balsamic dressing. Anyone could do it, you don't have to be a

chef. And I think that he felt I wasn't putting enough and so instead of just saying can you put more in the salad? What do you say put more in in like more energy in the salad. Leaves. Sorry, leaves. Literally leaves. Oh sorry. I thought he was like moaning about you're not bringing love into this side dish. No, not at all that. And so he kind of jumped in and did it for me which just fucking pissed me off because it sort of made me think, well you don't trust me to make a salad. Like come on. Did you tell him that? Yeah I did. And why did that play out? I think it was the right thing because it diffused the tension. I didn't tell

him that immediately. I waited for a moment. I sort of simmered for quite a long time and then he simmered because I was simmering. It meant it was fine but yeah he's... Is it better now? Yeah. Or you're now stressed about leaves? I'm not stressed about leaves. I mean in a sense you could have just said well why so many leaves? Why so many leaves? I should just get that on the t-shirt. Maybe I was right in the first place. Everyone's got a different idea of how something should be done and that's something that could be an issue in kitchens. If someone doesn't communicate properly and expects you to know what their idea of that thing is.

That makes a lot of sense. You know I've never thought about the sort of implications of cooking in my choices in this in that way as much as you've made me think about them. So thanks for that. I don't know, thank you for your pleasure. Absolute pleasure. Is there anything in your life that you feel has become dormant that you're keen to awaken again? Definitely, yeah. I think music's the biggest one.

Before I was a chef, I was in a band with this guy. It was kind of his band his songs what about your band your songs well that's the thing right that's there you go that's a big one you could call your band my band my songs my band my songs yeah why why no more leaves why so many leaves that's a good name first album so you did that you with someone else's band. You enjoyed it? I enjoyed it and it was going quite a lot of those. Playing the bass? Playing the drums. Drums? Yeah. And then he got record contract but he didn't take the band with him so we got

kind of shafted. That old winner. Yeah. I've heard that before. I think people don't talk about breakups enough like in stuff that aren't relationships I mean, it's gonna yeah, you know for sure especially music stuff Rejections there that like really stuck with me So yeah, any particular one that really stands out. There was another there was another band. I went to audition with and They didn't go with me, but I just took it so badly at the time And I still remember that. How did they let you down?

Do you remember how they said that? They just avoided contacting me. They ghosted me. Oh, yeah. I was banned ghosting. Oh, that's tough. It's better to get the clarity, probably. Exactly, yeah.

So how do you undormant this side of you? I mean, in a way, now is the best time to do that, because you've got so much to get out of you. I mean in a way, now is the best time to do that because you've got so much to get out of yourself. Yes. Yes. Apart from the leaf. The leaf thing. I do songs songs but around yeah around the time of babies there's just like there's so much in one's head and some people would say it's like babies somehow like the death of creativity somewhere but I actually think it's the opposite I think so much to think about and to say mm-hmm it would work for me yeah maybe it can work for you for your new band I hope so I hope so, I hope so.

That would be really fun. Would you like the next question to be heavy or light? If heavy was ten, light is one. What are you feeling in the mood for? Yeah, five, six. Fantastic. What was the last hole you Yeah, five, six. Fantastic. What was the last hole you dug?

An actual hole. Yeah. If we're not talking about metaphorical. No, no, no, no, no. My sister was given a tree as a wedding present and she didn't have space for it in her garden. So she said, put it in my parents and I went and dug a hole and and put the tree in it fantastic. Yeah

Which is kind of feeling you dug a hole Had you yeah, really? I've dug a few holes in my life. I've dug a few holes What is what what tends to be your emotion abiding emotion when you are digging digging said holes? I like I like it Yeah, it's again. It's there's something about things that come from the ground that go into it that is just very peaceful for me. That would be a good alternative to some kind of fun fair. Just dig a hole. Yeah, dig your own hole. Get a spade, dig a hole, and then you can dig it, you stand in it, everyone gets a photo. A photo. So a whole land, or whatever.

Diggy, diggy time. And then they can, someone comes at the end of the day and just fills them all in. Yeah. That's not a bad idea. That's quite a good idea. It's a shame we can only do so much in this life. I know, so many.

Because like, you know, if I, fundamentally if I, I mean not to be too big headed, but I think if I just dedicated my time to the kind of whole land, forever, I could do that. Any mad ideas like that, you wish that you had more time in your life, you're like, oh God, it was a great idea, but didn't quite have the time. I wanted to get an ice cream van when I was 20. Really? Yeah. Still time? Yeah. Me and my friend had this plan that we'd get an ice cream van and we'd drive around the country in it and we'd pay our way by selling ice creams.

What would your ice cream van, you know, what would you hope, what would be the hopes and dreams of your ice cream van? I think I wouldn't fuck around with no, no Calippos. Strictly Calippo-free. I wouldn't fuck about Calippos. Yeah, it Calippo free ice cream van. I wouldn't fuck about Calippos. Yeah, it just, there's no cream in them. You can't have an ice cream van with things in that don't have any cream in. Yeah, all that stuff, all the lollies and pre-made stuff,

no, it would just be pure Mr. Whippy style ice cream, soft serve they call it now. Yeah. Right, pure that, nothing else, really good toppings. So it's quite a high-end ice cream van now it's becoming but you know whatever. What would your ice cream van tune be? Can you remember the ones of... I'm blanking on the tunes now is is it like nursery rhyme type tunes? Yeah, like... That's the archers actually. That was the archers.

Yeah. But it's similar to the archers. No, sorry, that's EastEnders. That's EastEnders. No, I think I would go quite classic with the ice cream van song, I think. If you've not got that then you've not really got an Ice Cream Van. You might as well just go back to selling cutipose. I wonder how the Ice Cream Van people feel about the Ice Cream Van song.

I think that they're quite numb to it actually. I think they've gone beyond even having feelings because if it's anything like working in a restaurant and listening to the same songs all day all day, you just don't even hear it. Oh, of course. I didn't think about that. Which one song could play that you immediately are kind of triggered by? Yes. See, it's annoying because it's a song I love. It's Take Five by Dave Brubeck-Courtaut, and it's a really good song, but for some reason,

if you hear it over and over and over and over again, it becomes incredibly annoying. So that would be the one I'd be like turn it off but on that note I remember a time where I was working behind a bar in South Bank like you know maybe 2013 and I had one of those like portable speakers and we were playing music. I'd just served this guy two pints and two of my friends came over and put on a song. I was like, what are they doing? And they put on a hard-fi song that lived for the weekend. And I went, oh, who put this shit on?

And I went and turned it off, changed the song. And then I look at my mates and they've got their head in their hands and they're like, oh, and I'm like, what? And then I look up and I've just served the hard-fire lead singer and I did that right in front of them. I don't even know why I reacted like that because like they weren't a band that I dissed, they weren't a band I listened to. And obviously you didn't know that was the thing. I didn't know and then I realized once once I'd done that so yeah that was awful.

That is a tough one. Yeah. How long would you stew on that? Are you a stewer? Yes, I'm a stewer. Yeah, I would have cringed over that. Probably periodically for a few weeks. And then occasionally every now and then as well. Can you think of any other... Maybe this is a slightly painful question, but can you think of any

other moments like that where you have just thought about it for years after and go like, why did I do that? Absolutely, yeah. Things pop up into my head from the past. I've got a really good one to share with you if you want to share one with me. This isn't funny right, but there was one which I cringed over literally for my whole life, which was when I was like five, my dad came home and he put this hat on, he came home from work, my mum was reading me a story in bed, he took his hat off and

he had a babybel cheese and he took it off and gave it to me. And I just went, I don't like them. And he'd obviously gone through this effort of like getting this thing for me that he thought he'd like putting on this hat, making this gesture about it. And I just, and it was one of these things I realized in later life that was like,

maybe that made him feel a bit shit. And I sort of ruminated over that for years. Is there any way you could turn up with some baby on a hat just for his birthday or something? I could. That'd be fun. I feel like I put that one to bed now. I think I might have actually brought it up with him.

I think this was put to bed in the 20s, but that was still like 20 years after it happened, so it stuck with me for a while. What was your one? Oh God, yeah, my one was one of the first kind of girls I ever really fancied was someone when I was like, I don't know, maybe like 13. And we were in the same choir together and then it dawned on me that she seemed to feel

the same way about me as I did about her. There's a lot of pigeons. Then at some point I spoke to her as a rat. I spoke to her through a London scene. I was a pigeon, a rat. Yes, at some point she phoned up and said to me, like, do you want to be my boyfriend? And this is obviously the person you just think is like the greatest thing that's ever happened in the universe is this particular person. And I just said no. Even though really, and then probably for the next two, three years, I kind of most nights would go to bed going, what did I do that?

You know, really just like, what a painfully stupid thing to have done. Yeah. Was it just out of kind of fear of like, Yeah, I suppose you fear everything. You didn't know how to react. Yeah, fear of everything. I didn't, you know, I hadn't done anything with anyone. Maybe I was just put on the spot and just like froze You didn't know how to react. Yeah, I feel everything. I hadn't done anything with anyone.

Maybe I was just put on the spot and just like froze and didn't know what that would be. And it was just like, no. I actually have done the exact same thing by the way. Like when I was about 11, I remember the same thing happening to me. So I feel your pain. I feel your pain.

Yeah, it was such a haunting scenario. Let's move on. Can you think of a moment in your life you can remember in the greatest detail? The earliest memory that I can remember in a lot of detail was going to look at a new house when I was about three, and they had this pond with koi carp fish in it. Yes. And they gave me this massive plastic thing of fish food to feed the fish with and I can still remember like really really clearly going into that house walking through it I can remember the color of the wallpaper I can remember what the

people were doing around the table and I can remember feeding these koi carp and the image of like throwing this fish food into the pond. I can almost see the orange and white fish kind of swimming past. That's a memory that I shouldn't have in such great detail but I do. That's interesting. Why do you think you remembered that? I don't know. I think that there was just something about feeding those fish that just seemed incredibly exciting to me. Look what you're doing now.

I know. Still feeding. Still feeding. Still feeding the fish. Exactly. It's just I'm cooking fish and feeding that to people now instead. You ever had any great experiences in a lift? Yes I have had good experiences in the lift. I remember being 11 and going on this holiday and staying in this hotel in Morocco with a friend of mine. we had this game that we'd play. We used to get in the lift, press the button, go up to another floor where people were

waiting for it and like open the doors and say something to them and then bow but then close the doors from them and then like go down and then we used to run around knocking on people's doors and we do all of this in our dressing gowns that the hotel gave us and I can't remember we'd like say like bonnui or something like that and then like bow to them and it was just it was quite fun. Was everyone else enjoying this as much as you were? No, probably not. But that was the point. That was why it was so enjoyable. That's why it's so enjoyable. Yeah, that was why it was so funny. If I say to you, what one thing do you want to happen at your funeral that doesn't typically

happen at funerals, what would it be? I would like people to have a lot of fun. I would like... What kind of fun? Just like playing music and dancing and stuff. Good music though, not like shit music. Not hard fight. Hold on. Are we getting the call?

Yeah. Take it. Okay, cheers. Hey babe. Oh, I'm doing an interview. Yeah. It's very important. It's is your name, Tim?

Tom. Tom. It's for Tom. Tim, Tom. I'll take you there. I'll tell you about it in a bit, babe. Are you OK? Yeah, sorry. Sorry. I'll tell you about it in a bit. I'll be back really, really soon. Cool. Is everything good?

All right, cool. Yeah, see you soon. Fantastic. You seem happy. She seemed very happy, yeah. Seems good. She's just like, you're doing an interview. What are you talking about? Yeah, I have one midwife session and you're talking about an interview. You can really feel, maybe she'd be like,

guys, get your new job or something. Yeah. Or maybe it's like Chef Weekly or something. Chef Weekly, exactly, that's what I'll tell you. We don't have it in a way, you know, element of that. Knives and Forks magazine, yeah. So where were we at? we're at your funeral. Funeral.

I'd like there to be a toy train for kids to ride on. Do you remember those things? Yeah. Yeah, that would be quite fun. That's quite fun. It'd be hard to feel too sad riding one. Well, exactly. I guess the general theme I'm going for here is like fun.

Do you think that accurately would portray the theme of your life? Um I would like it to, I'm ask you the last question, which is the last question and then we'll be done forever. Last time you cried? Is that boring? If it's boring just say boring. Boring. Like it. Thank you for saying that. The most significant walk of your life? I think I'm going to say with my partner now. the third time we met we went for a walk around, where was it, Brookwell Park and it was the moment that it was became

really obvious that we had a really profound connection and so I'm gonna say it's that one. That's really nice. Yeah, I remember us hugging and it was just like, we hugged for like 20 minutes and it was just quite a magic sort of feeling. Wow. Yeah. On a bench? On a... We were kind of...

In the middle of them. on a... We were kind of... There was a tree that had been cut down, but the stump was still like sort of six, seven foot high. And we're kind of leaning against that. And 20 minutes? I would say it's not 20 minutes. That's probably an exaggeration. It was a very long hug and it felt like... Kind of timeless.

Yeah. It was a very long hug and it felt like... Kind of timeless. Yeah. Yeah. It was special. Well, I'm glad I asked that question now. Yeah. Thank you for rejecting the crying one. Okay, well, yeah, last question for you, which is what are you going to do next? I'm going to go back and I'm going to talk to my girlfriend about how her midwife appointment went.

Then I'm going to have some lunch and eventually I'm going to get prepared for big days of work over the next few days. Yeah, the rest, I don't know, we'll see. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely perfect. Well thank you very much for talking to me. Thank you, that was really fun. I enjoyed it.

I really enjoyed that too. ["Stories About Our Days"] Will we still talk every morning? Still make up stories about our days There hasn't been too much to certain in this life Something certain's on his way Yeah, he'll be here soon Yeah, he'll be here soon Tuesdays are gonna be quite different There'll be less time to stay in line Sure, I'm scared about the things we might get wrong

Can't wait to see what we get right Cause He'll be here soon A part of me, a part of you And we'll be of three Just you, Him and me He'll be here soon He'll be here soon He'll be here soon He'll be here soon Yeah, He'll be here soon Part of me, part of you

And we'll be a three Just you, him and me