Strangers on a Bench - EPISODE 45: The Air Is My Ocean

Episode Date: July 21, 2025

Tom Rosenthal approaches a stranger on a park bench and asks if he can sit down next to them and record their conversation.This is what happened! Produced by Tom RosenthalEdited by Rose De LarrabeitiMixed by Mike WoolleyTheme tune by Tom Rosenthal & Lucy Railton Incidental music by Maddie AshmanEnd song : 'Kites' by Dirty NiceStream it here : https://ffm.to/kites-soabListen to all the end songs featured on the podcast (so far) on one handy playlist :https://ffm.to/soabendsongs————————————————————————————Instagram : @strangersonabench Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for you up for that? Do you want to give it a go? Is there a day of the week that you favour? I prefer Saturdays. To every other day? To every other day. Take me through your ideal Saturday. Blue skies, winds of up to 6 or 7 miles an hour. Do you say 6 or 7?

6 or 7 is the sweet spot of flying. Flying what? Kites. Okay. So that's why I've come up to Kite Hill. And what I tend to do is the day before, I look at the weather forecasts to determine how much wind speed there is,

so I can be able to fly my kites to my heart's content. That's wonderful. It's to refresh myself for the week ahead, re-energize emotionally, and also doing some physical exercise, which is flying kites, walking up that hill, and riding up a... Quite a workout.

It is. So all in one, it's the pleasure of doing it that makes me do it. Can you tell me about your first kite flying experience? Who taught you how to fly a kite? This started about 30 years ago. I met a new girlfriend and it was my birthday and I said, person she won't be a two pound Tesco kite and I looked at her I said what is that for you know what do I need a kite for it's like a children's toy I'm not realizing she was a kite flyer okay she had been flying kites with her brother you know these power kites and kites I didn't realize that

and then I started to play with the kite to try and make it fly while having a picnic. Wine, champagne, fruits, meat, you name it, everything. And it was this combination of relaxing, eating, but at the same time doing something I love which is flying but not through kites. But the moment I started to try and make the kite fly, it reminded me of flying an aircraft. You need to have certain conditions to create the best possible lift and that's where it started. 30 years ago. What happened to the girl? Well, as we live we broke up but she left me with the lasting present. Does she know that she gave you this?

She knows because I was very passionate after that because in stages I started to move up the scale of bigger kites and we had a big group, we had about 30 different kite flyers so we used to come up here almost daily after work to fly kites. Oh amazing. Yeah. So it became very quickly like an obsession? It's still an obsession. This is the joy.

I love that. That's it's, I can't describe it, it's something that has to bite you first. You don't see it but you feel the invisible force of the wind. It can either control you or you control the kite. Can you think of a time when your heart was the fullest when flying a kite? The one that stands out was at the brow of this hill, you have what you call the lift band with the Easterling winds coming over from Europe.

Because we love to jump, and we used to call ourselves air monkeys. Yeah. Because we used to hang in the air, we used to have air time and stuff like that. The one I remember very well was that very brow where that lady is sitting. I raised the kite, captured the wind and then it caught my kite. I probably went about 24 foot off the ground. But it was a controlled lift. It was beautiful on a hot

summer day. You have the hot air and then you have the wind coming to make you levitate briefly and then it came down. It was magical. If you could just fly off the hill and just keep going, Mm-hmm. Would you do that? Top secret. Not really secret, but I've done it before, but not with a kite. Not really secret, but I've done it before. But not with a kite. With a paraglider. I have a paraglider.

I snuck a very quick flight. They don't see it? No, people saw it. The crowd was building up because of this massive canopy. So it was almost like something you don't normally see every day. Sometimes you have some paraglider pilots come out here just to you know maneuver and stuff like that but not usually fly but in my case I just hugged the profile of the hill and then landed and then you know what was funny they started clapping you know which was

crazy. I think you probably deserve it. Well it it's kind of a, how should I put it? It's a solitary type of sport. You know, flying is my passion. You know, the air is my ocean and I shall fly in it. ["Symphony No. 1 in D Major"] Do you think you were a bird in a previous life? That's a bit extreme, but I've always had the dream of flying aeroplanes and I do fly planes, light aircraft, and kite flying is something which came in between that because I didn't realize the exhilaration and thrill you had. And also

there's a bit of theater because when you fly people tend to stop and then look at the way you're flying the kite because I fly in a theatrical manner. Oh that's interesting. Yes. What is flying in a theatrical manner? Well flying to music, soundtracks and stuff reenactments or maybe things like gladiator battles while you're fighting the winds with your kite I used to perform at kite festivals some years ago You gave up you gave up kite festivals? Well life took over Yeah, you know not enough time, but now the time is coming back to me. Ah, time's full circle.

This is nice. Yes. What else are you doing with this time that's coming back to you? Well, I am trying to get physically fit because I suffered ill health about two years ago. Okay. And one of the best ways of doing it is cycling, walking up the hill, kite flying, which is physical. And that for me is another way of rehabilitation rather than just taking medicines and staying at home so being

active yeah was it a sudden thing or is that is this so to send into hell it was sudden in fact that I admit me into hospital for about three three months three months sorry three weeks that's really weeks. That's still a long time. That's still a long time. I said you know I'm not gonna give up this activity because it affected me very badly you know and I thought I was gonna lose my coordination and everything but it's all back. Fantastic. Due to flying kites. Do you feel like you can appreciate your body more since that moment? Yes, I think I took advantage of that years ago because I was so fit. And when you experience that period where you think you lost everything, that's when

you say that was golden, that golden nugget. I only discovered this hill because I had my late adopted English aunt. I used to work in a city with her. But we made good friends and she told me why don't you come up to Parliament Hill. This is the home of kite flying. So I came up here. So another Hill? This is the home of kite flying. So I came up here. Another important person in your life in the kite story. And I call her Aunt Rosie Spitfire Williams. Because her father was in the RAF.

He was a squadron leader in World War II. Amazing. So we used to come up here, especially on this particular bench. And she would fly with you? We brought her a small single line kite because the power kite was just... She was in her 80s. That would take her away. But she was the most loveliest person ever.

I wish she was alive today. Did you get a chance to tell her how much she meant to you? Oh, she knew. Because she... we had this zen, you know, close, it's almost like she was like a mother to me, but a friend as well. Yeah. We used to have picnics, we used to come up here

as often as possible, can't find a way to laugh our heads off, cracking jokes and talking about life. But she's been my confidant. Oh that's magic. Yes. Oh lovely. Yeah I miss her. Was it was it tough when she died? Yes I cried for many days because she was a special lady. Rosie was absolutely special. Do you remember your? Pure traditional English lady. She used to cook delicious meals, Sunday roasts and she used to make one of the best minced pies. Oh I miss her. Do you

remember that your last meeting with her? It was in December because I had a traffic accident. I was knocked down by a car, hit her on the vehicle. Yeah, and so she was also helping with my rehabilitation at the time when I broke my ribs. And that was the last time I saw her, because I was living in Dunstable at the time, with a new girlfriend. Yeah, but that didn't work in the end. In fact, anyway, that's another story.

Oh, okay, oh, we want to hear about that. Okay, maybe let's do this one first, and we'll come back to that. So, it was around February, I got a phone call telling me that Rosie had died. I couldn't believe it, you know, because this is somebody I thought I would grow old and maybe she'll meet my future wife.

And I was gonna name, if I have a girl, daughter, I'll name her after Rosie. That's lovely. And my mother's name was Rose as well. Oh, amazing. Yes. It's kind of Oh, amazing. Yes. It's kind of a destiny there. Yes.

We were meant to meet together because I wish I could show you a picture. Absolutely beautiful woman. Do you remember your first meeting with her? With Rosie, yeah. It was strange. How quickly did you become your English aunt? I remember seeing her because I I was temping at the time.

So I attended this bank, and I needed somebody to show me the ropes. People working there were not really wanting to help me. But I remember her face. She was looking at me. Hello, how can I help you? You know, last time. But there was something about her gaze. You could tell she was a natural person and she wanted to help me.

That moment we became friends. Oh, that's fantastic. That's amazing, how many years older would she be? I think she was probably 30 years older than I am. Fantastic. Fantastic. Yeah. That's such a lovely, that's such a wonderful story. Honestly, I wish she was here.

You will love her. I love the sound of her. Yeah, she's beautiful. Oh, fantastic. Rosie Spitfire Williams. I must have been in a bench of memory at some point. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Oh. Oh. Yeah. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Oh. Oh. And your mother, mother, where is she? Oh, yeah. My real mother, she's passed away. Yeah. 10 years ago. Yeah.

She was my best friend as well. Oh, lovely. We used to laugh and, you know, joke all the time, drink together, eat pizza sometime together. It was the same thing. When you think back to your mum, what are your core memories of standout being with her? Always looking out for me. She had other children as well, so there were five of us all together.

But the other kids were far more intelligent academically and they had other skills like cooking and stuff. And then when it came to cooking and eating, they never wanted to help me, so she helped me out. She taught me how to cook and you know. So you've got four other, four siblings? Yes, I have. Well, I'm trying to guess what number you might be.

Can I guess? Yes. Okay, let's have a think here. I've released, it's definitely not one. You're not the first. No, I'm the first. Are you not the first? Yes.

No! Yes, I'm the first. Really? Yes. I just thought you didn't have first child vibes to me. Well, I don't know what first child vibes mean. I know we exist. Well, they're kind of heavy, serious ones. Well, I think- I'm They're the kind of heavy serious ones.

Well I think you're not serious person. I mean just like you know see there's a lightness to you as well. I felt like it would be two or three. The second was the most serious one. Okay and the last one as well because those two were very very successful. Okay what is being successful? I mean in career wise. Sounds like you're successful to me though. Well, successful in life. You can fly. Yeah, that's a basic, you know, a basic passion fulfilled. But I have a degree in architecture. My father was a civil engineer. So I went my own way because I wanted to make my own success not full of dads. Was he okay with that? No he wasn't happy yeah he wasn't happy in fact

he was not even going to pay for my flying lessons in America. Oh dear. What did it feel like to kind of you know go against his wishes? It was hard very hard but I know he loved us loved loved me, but when I look back now, because I've been through all sorts of careers, currently I'm a data analyst and that's a very exciting occupation. Yeah. And I wish I knew what I knew now then because I would have helped him a lot more with the company.

Oh, with the data. Yeah, with the data and, you know, making decision making. When you say, quick question, when you say data analysis is very exciting. Yes. Is it as exciting as kite flying though? I think it's, yeah. It's what I... Because I spent many hours looking at data as well.

Yeah. Because what I used to do, I used to analyze data from TFL. They had the bus safety report, and one of my friends wanted me to help analyze the information they had. Why are you having so many incidents? There's sleep trips and falls, I think collisions, robberies, and all sorts of things.

It's boring stuff. Well, excited to me. No, keep going. But what I discovered, the highest incident was slips, trips and falls. Really? Yes, because that data is to be attached to the way the driver pulls out and pulls in and overtakes and doesn't allow the passengers to settle before moving off. So that's the biggest issue. If they can reduce

that, their safety records will be better. How interesting. But it's getting worse and worse. So I suppose that is quite exciting. It is. Maybe you've changed my mind. I didn't think it could be. Oh, it can. And it can. You should be running a lot of things. Well that's the magic of day-to-day life. That's what I love about it. Oh, you can count how many people are here wearing white t-shirts or drinking beer.

I love that. Playing music. You can build a pattern over a period of time, like say for one year. So you can see patterns ahead of other people basically. Are you always seeing the world like this? As in if you wake up and walk out your house and you know, today I saw 23 people pass me by and yesterday was 18. Are you seeing the world like that? I am, almost like the Matrix.

Yeah. You know, they're hidden figures. How has the data analysis helped you in your romances? Has it been any... Has it been useful? For instance, you know, my partner likes, you know, this on this day, I'll do this on this day. I tell you what, with romance it's a complex thing. It's something that you allow nature to take care of.

So that I leave to nature. Okay. Are you with someone at the moment? No, not at the moment. Which is good. How would you describe your romantic life thus far? It was beautiful. It's been good, Which is good. How would you describe your romantic life thus far? It was beautiful. It's been good, generally very good. I've only met about, I think two people who are not all that compatible. It was always about money, money, money, money.

And that's not real romance. I remember having a relationship for a while. We started living together and she changed. Oh. Yeah, because she knew I had the money and she tried to... Oh, I see. Use me to settle her debt problems and stuff like that. Oh.

Yeah. That's only been twice, you said? Twice. What happened in the one in Dunstable, by the way? Can we get back to that one? That was the one that frightened the hell out of me We had we had real love. It was beautiful. We used to travel to Paris together You know used to fly and we used to do everything together. Yeah, but it was when I

When I moved in with her then things just changed and the problem is with children of someone That's not yours right there can be issues of course because I like to do things but take them out buy them things and shopping but the upbringing is not compatible with the way I used to we were all brought up yes it was these children were very ungrateful and rude and idea So what's the point of staying with someone? Oh, so it was the kids that were the problem? That was one of the problems.

You know, maybe we shouldn't live with people, maybe it's not a great idea. It might be a better idea to live separately because it's more exciting. But the moment you move in with somebody, then that changes. Yeah, I get it. Because you don't really know the dynamics of the...

Of course. ...ins and outs of life in that family. So that didn't work for you? No, it didn't work. But it was a beautiful relationship. I think we went out for about two years before I decided to move with her. Can you think of the one person, maybe romantic interest in your life, who got away? The love of my life, maybe.

Can you tell me that? I think it was a German I met. I was flying to Houston at the time. In your plane? No, no, I was flying. Oh in the plane, just general plane. General plane with other passengers. Yeah, yeah. So I met her by chance and then we were chatting all the way and then, oh let's exchange emails and all that stuff and And that was it. It was lovely.

And it turned out her daughter was learning how to fly as well. She's now an airline pilot. The daughter? Yes. We used to go flying together. When she was learning, I used to pay for some of her fees and stuff like that.

But I think that was the only person I ever felt I would be able to say yes, we'll get married. Because we were even walking, you know, in the neighborhood, holding hands together with a dog. And she said, will you marry me? I said, of course I'll marry you. I normally would not say that to anybody because, you know, there was a natural connection between us. And how come he didn't work? Again the daughter as much as I loved her, my own daughter, she was not my daughter, she was a bit erratic.

I hope she's not erratic in the plane. No that's all I'm saying. Very feisty, very demanding. She wants this, she wants that. And what scared me was the fact that she wanted us to buy her a gun. Oh, that is a bit scary. And with a temper, she might turn that gun on me

and kill me. And I believe she probably put something in one of my foods. Because I said I'd go into... Really? Yes, I said, she said, oh, I made I'm going to yes I said she said oh I made this for you and I thought that's nice I thought we're making up and stuff and then I started running to the toilet and then I started to think you know you better get out here you know and and did she have a gun at that point

no no she's good shooting lesson she asked you to buy her a gun? She asked us to buy her a gun because she was still a minor like under 18. And I guess you said no? Of course, no way, you get blown away. It would be also quite unfortunate to buy the gun that you were killed with as well. Exactly. But generally, I must say this. In America, I've had one of the best times of my life because they're the most down to earth people in Texas. They are so friendly, super cool. If not for that, I'd probably be married by now

and probably sitting in Houston. probably still in Houston. So do you think there's a kind of repeated pattern of these relationships? You know, other factors get in the way but you just, I mean, what's the thing? I don't know, maybe it's me or maybe there's certain ideals that I've been brought up with that doesn't sit well with others. I think more with life it's mostly about money to be honest with you. So life is about money do you say? No no no I'm fine with I'm comfortable I'm happy you know. What do you spend money on, by the way? Not much. I just come up here, you know. I don't have to buy Giorgio Armani and buy supercars and stuff like that.

It's the way you spend your money. I'll give you an example. With Don Stable, I used to... Of course, I work in London. I used to cycle 35 miles into London, 35 miles back. What, daily? Every day, five days a week. You used to ride 70 miles a day?

Yes. God, what? It was hard initially. Crikey. I woke up one Christmas morning, girlfriend's sitting there saying I'm going to get up and I'm going to try it. What, riding Christmas morning girlfriend sitting there I said I'm going to get up and I'm going to try it. What, riding Christmas morning? Yes that's fine. That caused a lot of arguments. Oh she didn't like that? Because you were abandoning her?

Free wheel, I just said you know what let me try it out and see what it's like because I bought a bicycle to get on the train but it told me I couldn't use the bicycle because it was a full-size not like a, but it told me I couldn't use the bicycle because it was a full size, not like a Brompton. And then I said, you know what, I'm going to try this route. You can save yourself over 6,000 pounds a year. I said, that's good money to save while you're getting fit. Wow.

So because of this inconvenience, don't come on my train with your bike. I said, right, okay, I'm going to show you. I'm going to race the train into London. Mark Threlfall I mentioned this Christmas day bike ride. Is that how you spend most Christmas days? Big bike ride? Simon Lerner Well, not most of them, but at the time when I used to cycle a lot because cycling gave me this freedom to explore everywhere, you know, without paying too much for it.

Beautiful. It seems like freedom is quite important to you. I think that's the key, freedom. But being faithful as well is very important. Faithful in relationship. Faithful in a relationship and trust. If you don't have that then there's nothing. Have you ever been unfaithful? No. Has anyone been unfaithful to you? Yes. What was that like? Well, you know, I just said, alright

so Lavi, that's happened, don't beat yourself over that, you'll be okay. But you haven't done the other way round? No, because we were brought up in a certain way by our parents. Our parents were together forever, you know. So is that what you're trying to replicate what your parents had? No, it comes naturally with the upbringing and the training. If you misbehave, you're punished for that. If you're naughty, you get smacked for that. What was your punishment?

You get smacked for that. Oh, your punishment? You get smacked for that. Oh smacked, yeah. Yeah we're from the 70s and those were the days, not now. If you smacked someone you go to jail for it, you know. And that's why we're having a problem, you have too many reprobates about. Interesting, so you'd get smacking back in? Yeah. You're a fan?

Yeah, but I wouldn't personally do it because there's a law about that. I was called the individual. If you had more people correcting people where they're wrong, then there'll be less reprobates about it. So have you got a history of doing that? Do you go around... I mean, is that your thing? Oh yeah. Really?

Well, it's not my thing but it's natural. Well, it just comes to you. I'm glad I haven't done anything wrong. No, no, no. Or maybe I have.. I'm glad I haven't done anything wrong. No, no, no. Or maybe I have. You probably know who I am but you're not sure. Oh God.

Were you famously told to run off? No, well, I used to cycle all the time from Downstable until one fateful night I had a serious crash. Okay. Hit and run. So I'm that cyclist that I think Channel 4 and BBC One did, Road Wars, cyclists, War on Prison Roads. And so you're in that program? That's me.

The complainers. So you've done a lot of Notoriety. Accosting people. I only rebuked bad drivers because I was almost killed for dangerous driving and taking them to court and prosecuting them and then winning the case. So you've got cameras on your bike

and then if someone does anything wrong, you can prosecute them. To me, or other people, I will report them. But I've been doing that for 15 years. Probably reported 4,000. 4,000? I think in 15 years. Ever since the Dunstable incident?

Yeah, but I know this very quickly. Did you nearly die in the Dunstable incident? I could have. I could have because I hit head on. My whole body was found on the car. The windscreen smashed. I went spinning like a rag doll to crack my ribs Cuts on my back. I remember that night when I hit the ground hard. Yeah

Luckily, I was wearing a helmet because my helmet broke at the back that could have been my scar and is this attitude on the roads Look, it's everybody using the roads. Yeah, the road is like an open book. It's a bible for road users, pedestrian, cyclist, drivers. If you don't follow those rules, you have chaos. Amazing. You've seen, you've since that... Four thousand? Roughly, roughly reported about four thousand. How many is that every year? That's at least like... Probably about four hundred or so. Four hundred a year? Three to four

hundred. But then that means... Reports. That's like what's over one a day? Are there that many people? Approximately, approximately, yep. I suppose if you're on your bike riding 70 miles you're probably then seeing lots of stuff. Oh every day. I mean even here just now today, just before the roundabout, the pinch point, van man just comes aggression cuts in front of me, probably about that much. Oh god. So when that happens your first thought are you like I'm gonna talk to them now or are you first thought I'm gonna look at that in the footage? No I'm gonna report it that's a close pass. Who do you report it to? The police, the police. Do they know you by now basically? They know me. And when they get a message from you how do you think they feel? Are they like are they like oh not this guy or they're like oh interesting this guy? Probably they probably think

like that but generally they've been very good the last few years just last two years or so when I was very ill I've hardly reported anything and now that I've come back. You're back. I'm back cycling. Back reporting. No I'm back cycling but I found out very quickly nothing has changed but the thing is I don't like to do it but I have to do it. Yeah. Which one are you most proud of? Of your interventions? The one that really stands out. I had three cases in one day and I won all three of them. One after the other.

That was the one I remember. Is there anything you can frame? Do you have a memento of that? No, no. Paperwork or something? It comes in the form of an email from the Met Police. Should print it out, put it on the wall. No, no, no. That's like you're doing it for narcissism or ego or stuff like that. Oh, I see, I see.

But I'm doing it for safety. The good of people. The good of me, protect me so they don't do it to other people. Yeah, that's very good of you. Yeah, well, thank you very much. The people kind of, I imagine you must have made some people very cross. Does that happen? A lot of people are unhappy with me, especially with the taxi drivers and bus drivers. And what do they, are you worried about your safety? Are these people going to kind of... No, because I know if they try anything they're going down.

Because they're being filmed I suppose? Absolutely. The camera is like garlic to a vampire. It's like you've got a bouncer with you at all times. Yeah, if you don't have a witness they get away with things. Thanks. Is there anything you filmed that has been interesting to you that is not related to a complaint? One of the most beautiful thing I've ever seen as a cyclist

is cycling through a path from the main road. Yeah. It was like a small greenery area. Then there was this, I think a wild horse. He came to me, like to say hello. Where were you? This was, I think somewhere near St Albans. Wow.

So I'm passing through. I still have the footage on somewhere in my YouTube. Yeah. Well it was a beautiful moment to have an animal come to you. In fact, yes. But as you were, sorry, as you were riding, you saw the horse in the distance and you kind of rode towards the horse. Yeah, I was going slowly and then the horse started coming to me.

Amazing. And you kind of stopped to be with the horse? I stopped. I said hello horsey and I was beautiful. Maybe they're trying to tell you something. There are beings as well, horses and dogs. Yesterday, I wish I'd filmed it. Just here, because we were quite a few of us flying kites. You will not believe what happened. We were having a picnic and everything. A fox actually came to join us. Well the picnic.

Yeah. What do you mean? It wasn't scared. It just was just with you. It was chilled with us. Did you give it anything, any food from the picnic? Some of them gave it, gave it something, but the fact that it could come where we had a lot of us, this is one of the magic of this place. You know, it's like Alice in Wonderland.

Yeah. I love that. This place, you know, it's like Alice in Wonderland. Yeah Do you feel like you need oh that's that's those are my kite bodies I got the kite buddy I didn't realize you come there Hello ship ahoy Buddy I'll come and join you. Don't worry Oh you got some kite buddies there? I didn't realise you'd come there! Hello! Sherpa-hoi! Kite buddies! I'll come and join you, don't worry! Yeah, we were flying yesterday. Oh lovely!

Yeah, yeah. And so there's a close-knit group of you guys? Well, we just met by chance. Because you're kite flyers? Yeah. Do you feel like kite flyers just instinctively get on well? Oh yeah, although it's a solitary sport, it's also a social magnet. Yeah. My kite,

one of the kites I have is older than most of the people on this heat right now, all the youngsters here. If anybody is younger than 30, 25 years old, I have a kite older than they are. Do a lot of people approach you? Oh yes, over the years. And you're happy with it for them to do that? I'm fine, you know, I'm cool. It never gets too much? No, no, no, the funny thing is I used to be a very, very shy person. Really? Yes, when I was younger.

I don't know what stopped the shyness. I think it was after I finished my degree I think, yeah, that's it. I remember trying to get a job, we couldn't get a job in the 90s. We had a recession at the time. Then I decided to start a business. Went to the bank, asked for 200 pounds.

Guess what they said? No. I said why? They said because you don't have any credit history. So I had to get a job very... They didn't pay much, but I used that money to start the business. And I started a business with, wait for it, 10 pounds. Wow.

And how did that 10 pounds get to the point where I'm able to fly to America every single week for my trade. How do you do it? Well, that 10 pounds was just an advert. A single column centimeter, I think was an athletics magazine. Yeah.

And at that time, you know Carl Lewis? Yeah, the long jumper. Santa Monica track club, because he was really hot at the time. I drew a stick figure of Carl Lewis on starting blocks and I put a logo of the Santa Monica track club at the end of that and my telephone number and I put it upside down because that would catch the eye with all the space. Okay, that's interesting. You know it costs thousands to... Yeah, so you put an upside down Carl Lewis on the starting dress.

Yes, I remember that. I probably still have that little advert. And your number? Mobiles were new at the time. I had spoken to Joe Douglas, who was the manager of Carl Lewis, but they had the merchandising at the time, so I agreed I would buy so much. But initially I would buy them in one piece at a time so I agreed I'll buy so much but initially I'll buy them in one piece at a time you know and that's how I started so I buy one product at this cost and then I sell at 100% I get a profit back recycle make a working capital then if I get three orders then I can have a bigger advert and then

people get to see that oh yeah he sells the Santa Monica Track Club tank top you know and sweatshirts the hat people loved it you know the fans loved it so I was selling that. That is very clever. 10 pounds. That's the first upside down advert I've heard of. I don't think you've done a lot of things in your life. Well it's just simple things simple things.

What is there still left to do? I have a dream. I would like to build a house. What does this house look like? I can see it already. It's going to be more or less modern style architecture. Probably not going to be here. It's the sort of space where you can think and not have your traditional home where you have

pictures and that. I rather live in an art gallery type space and the real source is silence, fresh air, water and that water is a swimming pool. I can live with that forever. And will you be happy in this house on your own or do you want to be with someone else? Oh, I'll be with someone else but it has to be someone with a minimalist mindset. But life, you never know what it has in store for you. But here, I've experienced so many things. So many beautiful things. So many. It will take me forever to tell you. What would you like to happen at your funeral? Oh, no, what I would like to happen

before I die, I would like a dog with me by my bedside that's what I need that's all I need yeah because my love has been with dogs all my life I love them yeah we interact every dog I see I stop and I talk to you that's lovely but must be stopping quite a lot. For my funeral I don't want any celebrations. No, none? The only legacy you leave is what experience people have had with you. Just like my father, like Rosie.

That's a sort of legacy. It's already been done. And I've taught a lot of kids how to fly kites They're probably all married now and they're teaching their kids. They're passing on that skill. That's beautiful Spread the kites joy. Yeah. Well last question for you. Yes You can either answer this in a big way or just a now way What are you going to do next? Well, I'm going to join them to play the kites.

Then I have a picnic to enjoy. Fantastic. Yeah. I am the hand that pulls the string that brings me in When the wind starts to change everything, everything starts to change And I tell myself I know which way it's gonna blow But I know, I know, I know what you'd say But I don't wanna let go I don't wanna let go I don't wanna let go I don't wanna let go

I don't wanna let go I don't wanna let go Let go Oh Let go Oh Let go Oh Let go Oh Let go I learned to fly, learned how to get myself high above it all, but I never quite learned the right way to fall So I tell myself I know which way I'm gonna go

And I know, I know, I know what you'd say But I don't wanna let go I don't wanna let go I don't wanna let go I don't wanna let go I don't wanna let go I don't wanna let go I don't wanna let go I don't wanna let go I don't wanna let go

I don't wanna let go I don't wanna let go