Strangers on a Bench - EPISODE 53: A Very Different Place

Episode Date: September 15, 2025

*Content warning : this episode contains references to suicide and self-harm.Tom Rosenthal approaches a stranger on a park bench and asks if he can sit down next to them and record their conversation.This is what happened! Produced by Tom RosenthalEdited by Rose De LarrabeitiMixed by Mike WoolleyTheme tune by Tom Rosenthal & Lucy Railton Incidental music by Maddie AshmanEnd song : 'Thunder and Lightning' by Clara Mann Stream it here : https://ffm.to/thunderandlightningListen to all the end songs featured on the podcast (so far) on one handy playlist :https://ffm.to/soabendsongs————————————————————————————Instagram : @strangersonabench Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a bench where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a go? Okay. How are you feeling? You're okay? Yeah, I'm going to be nervous about. It's just talking. That makes me nervous. Just been crying on the beach about that. Oh God. Okay, well you're talking to the right person.

I don't want to overly big myself up, but I have done this all around the country talking to it pretty much everyone you could possibly imagine. What I'm trying to say is I think I could be, you know, useful, useful person to talk to you. I'm going to say that. Quite dangerous early on because you might not agree when it comes to it. But anyway, you ready for the first question? You can't get the first one wrong. It's really easy. Do I have to get them right?

Is that the thing? No, there is. The good news, there is no right and no wrong. Okay. You ready? Do you have a favourite day of the week? Well, I don't know if I have a favourite day in the week, but I have a day that I don't like. I like those people. Tell me. Sunday. Yeah, okay. It's it today.

It's not Sunday. It's not Sunday. This is, you see, I told you, this means this is a good thing. Officially, it hasn't happened on your least favorite day. Okay, so this is, I've always intrigued by the people who lead with, I have a least favorite day. So Sunday's not your favorite, what, because Monday's following Sunday, is that the classic? No, just generally, no other reason. Tell me, sorry, I dropped ahead there.

Because I miss my family on Sunday, I think. And I don't feel like I have a family. Oh, straight, isn't that? Yeah. That's usually how I do it. Okay. I don't want to do you dally. Yeah.

Honestly, big fan of that approach. Big, big fan. Okay, you said two slightly contradicting things there. You miss your family. You don't have a family. Can you make it make sense for me? Oh God. We're here now, go for it.

Well, yeah, I just, I don't know. I'm... Say the words. Say the words. I don't know if I should be doing this, because I'm just going to end up bawling. It's okay. Many people have cried before and they'll cry again. Don't worry.

I've seen everything. Next question. Okay, can I like try and do a kind of a weave round of that question just to get a little bit of an insight? Because I feel like what you said is too big to not have anything. Is that I mean? Your family don't live here. Well, they live on the planet.

Okay. Yeah. So they're alive? Yeah. Right. They live in, well, we're really. My mom and dad live in Australia. That's far.

They moved at some point? Yeah, we all emigrated when I was 15. From... Leicestershire, Cosby. Fantastic. Little village. How was that at 15? Well, I was all excited at the time.

What are you excited about? Just being somewhere else, but yeah, I guess I didn't really have friends very... I wasn't close to people, even at 15, so... And so... It's really uncomfortable, I'm answering questions. You're doing well. You're doing well. You're doing fine.

It's not, it's like... It is a competition. It's not, it is a competition, exactly. It's like, it's not, um, it's not like relentless heavyweight things. I'm trying not to be boring. It's like part of me that's, um... You're trying not to be. You are trying to deflect.

Don't worry. Everything's fine. Let's just carry on. You do your best to answer the questions, we'll see how we get on. Okay. Yeah. Okay, so you went to Australia at age 15. It wasn't quite how you hoped it would be. You weren't enjoying it?

I did for, I, no, not really. I didn't enjoy it. And at some point you wanted to move back. Well, I... This is intriguing. This is an intriguing mystery. What is what? What's anything?

I don't really know what to do now. It's like all this internal stuff going on with me. Yeah, it's like all this kind of different versions of myself that are going on in my head. And it's like, which one to go for? Okay. If I can say something, go for the most honest, if you can. The reason I'm doing this is, because I think it does make quite a big difference to people who are listening to. and it's shown that that's already happened now when people are honest and open about certain

things you know that's a bridge for other people to understand themselves do you know you have no idea how crazy this is why because of what I've kind of gone through today well then maybe it's meant it was kind of approaching me it's like bonkers it's meant to happen yeah tell me what you what have you gone through today I just like it sounds trivial but I just went to this social thing and I was there for about 15 minutes and then had to leave because I don't find it easy and I turned up to be this bubbly person that on the outside I try and look like I am but I'm not and I really struggle. in those situations and there's part of me that doesn't want to and wants to be different but I'm not so today I sat on the beach and I said all this to myself and I spoke to chat GPT and what do they say I'm just kind of like you know he's like my therapist like walking me through it it's okay

to be not okay in these situations It's just not for me. Going into today, going into that event, did you think that you would be okay? Did it take you by surprise that you weren't? No, didn't. So you were anxious before the event? I guess I overrode the anxiousness and thought, just pushed through it, you know, it'll be fine.

But I wasn't. It was difficult to be with myself in that situation. When did it dawn on you that you just had to go? Was it like kind of... Well, when I said hello to the only person that I knew whose party it was and then looked around and there was no one else I knew and I made a beeline for the dog that was lying on the floor. I sat with a dog and grounding myself on the ground.

That's a sensible idea. Because I thought I'll be okay with a dog. Yeah. If it was a dog party, you would fight. left me and that's when you knew when the dog had enough the dog doesn't want to be with me and so that is that when you left well I chatted to there was a couple of young guys there and one of them he was very kind of asking me questions like you so I always you were okay at that no he was attractive so that was

hard oh i see well then there was pressure i put pressure on myself to be more appealing yeah i get it i can't understand there's quite a lot of stuff happening this 15 minutes yeah there's shit loads going on you have no idea i was quite a lot can happen in 15 minutes so are there any more people any more events than in this 15 minutes um well i kind of got up after a while because I felt just quiet happening and then I could feel myself getting nervous and then walked over to Lizzie and said I'm leaving Lizzie I feel really uncomfortable I've got to go what did Lizzie say she said you twit quite a good response I quite like that yeah and so then you just ran out of there I didn't run

But yeah, I would have run, yeah, if people were sort of coming my way. Slightly controversial thought. Absolutely fine what you did. You're a free human. Like, you knew one person at this place. Talking to people is a weird lottery. And like, if you want to be someone for 15 minutes and it's not right for you, leaving is just fine.

No, it's not. I think it is. I think it completely is. No, this part of me, it's like, no, it's not. No, but it is. I mean, it's like, you know, what was Lizzie hoping for? You invite people to, is it a party? Yeah.

What are you hoping for? Yeah, I wanted to be different. I wanted to be like Lizzie. Yeah, we can't be like Lizzie. I want to be like her. I want to be like her. Yeah, but Lizzie wants to be like you. That's how life works, though.

Yeah, I guess. Almost certainly, Lizzie wants to be like you, like how life works. That's how humans work. Yeah, sure. all kinds of things that you have that Lizzie would like. Are you therapyising me now? It's really annoying. Not at all. I'm not. I'm not therapy. I'm just giving you your opinion.

Can you ask me another question? Yeah, sure. I totally can. No, but honestly, I think what you did is fine. I just think it's totally fine. No, I don't want it. It's real annoyed at you now. Oh no, really? Yeah. Don't. Should I say it's bad? I don't want you to say. No, I just don't want you to. Make a judgment. Yeah. Well, it's just boring. I don't want me want you to. Therapies me. I appreciate you saying that. I don't need you to do that.

Okay. But then you headed to the beach and thought about your life. Well then I know how to cry. Yeah. How much crying was there? A lot? Do you think I feel I don't know I don't like your question. It feels like very Do you think the sea is more likely to make you cry? Hmm? It helps tears because there's lots of water. Yeah, I like sitting on the beach and grounding myself, get my feet out and yeah, it really helps me a lot. Let's flip this around. You're one of that small percentage of people who answered what's their favourite day of the week with why?

Here's my least favourite day of the week. If you had answered your favourite day of the week, let's imagine you said Wednesday. I would have said, take me through your kind of ideal Wednesday. Can you answer that question for me? Yeah. Let's move away from the tears. Mm-hmm. And get a really good massage from some amazing person.

Hang on, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down. We like, we like, we'll have the ASMR done as well on me. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, and I go canoeing. Wait, wait, wait, wait, no, this is good. No, no, this is good, but can we, hang on, let's just pause for a sec. Really good trousers over there. Did you see those? No, you're trying to distract me.

Okay, I want, from waking up, I want, I want to, apart the little details correct details are good what time do you wake up um I usually wake up early but don't always get out of bed okay what are you doing in bed

signer hmm ha ha ha no okay so what time wake up we haven't even got to the time waking up I'd wake up really early and I would... No, no.

What's happening? No, not saying that, Jenny. You're not saying that. Okay, you wake up really early? I'd go and do like some aerial yoga. Aerial? Yoga. Aerial?

Yeah. So in the air? Yeah, hanging. Can I stop you very briefly to suggest something? Feel free if you don't want to do this. if you don't want to do this. I'm finding the music like a little bit distracting. How would you feel about moving just a few further down?

Yeah, can do. Okay. You can just, if you just carry that with you, we can walk, we could just walk down. There we go. There we go. There we go. You're going to really enjoy all of my questions as soon as we're here.

It's kind of exciting. Right. Okay. What was your drink, by the way? by the way. It was a milkshake, salted caramel. Okay. Is it, was that after like to console yourself? Yes, sure. That's the job, doesn't it? Yeah. Um, right, we're back to your aerial yoga. What bit is, like, you're hanging, um, the hoops? You're liking this hammock thing. It stretches all the way around you, so you lie in it, you like swaddled up like a baby. Mm. It's quite an unusual.

unusual feeling. It does feel like you're cocooned and it feels safe and you're just hanging there. It's really quite special feeling. It's how I imagine a baby would feel, you know. It's like being in the sea held by the water and it's got you, you know. That's a lovely thing. I'm a bit concerned that we skip breakfast and stuff. Okay, so breakfast would be beans. You have to have beans, fibre. As in like, lentils or pulses or chickpeas. Straight off. I have savoury breakfast because it's really good for your system.

And yet then I hit this sugar later on in the day. You just get ready for your big sugar. Sugar load later on. Okay, but then like are you got any morning rituals or anything? Are you? There's a pond in the garden so I might have my feet in the pond. Pond in the garden? Yeah, it's been by spring as well.

So it's kind of... Wow, that's pretty cool. Yeah. Are you doing anything else? You're just feet in. Yeah, just with the noots, you know, like... You're in the newts. Hanging out?

Yeah. Fantastic. Okay, so all these things build up. You're off to the aerial yoga. Are you alone, by the way, doing it alone? Is aerial yoga? Um, yes. Okay, it's one-on-one session.

That's a tentative, yes, but we'll take it. Then you've finished area yoga It's complete You've done it I'd go and have a massage Massage To recover from the No, just to relax

Because massages are good And have someone touch me Yeah that would be lovely I would love that Obviously to say you like to be touched It's a good feeling Do you feel like I mean this is the question

I've not yet asked On anyone on a bench But do you feel like you're not touched enough Yes I think we're all deprived of touch. That's interesting, isn't it? Not just me.

Yeah. No, I actually think that's a very interesting point. I actually completely see it. I would even go as far as I feel that too. Mm-hmm. What can we do about it? As in, like what are we doing wrong? Oh God, it's a huge thing, isn't it?

I had a grandma who was very touchy-feely. Yeah. But my family weren't really that way. that way but I long for it and I'm very touchy-feely really but I find it hard even with my best friend she's more touchy than me and we do practice cuddling and holding each other and that stuff but it feels still uncomfortable for me but we talk about it and that's the whole reason we're doing it as well is to kind of get us used to that and I go to a women's group and And that's a huge thing.

We're all kind of like talking about the fact that we are touch-deprived. And I did a session where we just played with each other's hair. I can remember at school, we used to sit and listen to stories at the end of the day. And I would sometimes ask a friend if she would play with my hair. And I would do the same for her. And I loved it. I'm into I don't know if you know what ASMR is you do I do but can you say what it is just for anyone that wouldn't know

yeah it's this thing called auditory sensory meridian response which is certain triggers affect our system and when we touch story we even hear certain sounds it can trigger this response in us you can get tingles down your spine it makes you feel very relaxed in your body so I really feel really passionate about that myself like wanting to do some kind of because I did think I was going to do ASMR videos and and that would be a way for me to

actually touch people because I do love touching people but because we're afraid of touching this whole you know kind of consensual thing as well isn't there now it's not you know like we have to ask now as well like it's not It's quite a difficult thing. It's kind of something that really interests me. I feel really strongly about. Personally, I'm a massive toucher. Especially people are like,

that's part of how I just am with humans. I remember I asked my dad, what was the most important bit of parenting, in his opinion, like, into when kids are young. and he's a physical play. You know, just like as the kind of absolute core thing. Basically like wrestling in a way. You know, learning what is acceptable and good and touch.

I don't know, so I think he instilled that in me. But also being at parties and you're just like, I'm just gonna go and touch your face. I felt myself needing more. And obviously, you know, so you can't do that. you can't do that but we could in consensual sense but like if I could touch your face now I would chew that over your shoulder that kind of desire it's in me and it's not and it's completely not sexual at all where it comes from is actually like a kind of a child

like I can understand you better if I can touch you you know obviously that's really complicated though you know and like what you do with that and how that all works When you're talking about it with your friend, do you feel like it's something you're getting more comfortable with as you do it more? Or do you feel like it's like a kind of core thing which you can't really shake? No, I don't think it's a cool thing that I can't really shake. I think it's for me, it's like I have to be honest about what's coming up for me for me in terms of what's going on internally

because then it allows me to be more okay with those things you know your experience with touch has been very different to mine and I kind of makes me feel really tearful because I know my dad loves me but he didn't he wasn't we didn't have that you know he didn't touch me in the same way that I would like I don't know it feel really emotional And, yeah, I just, I don't know, for me it's a huge thing, but I also know, because it's a huge thing, it's changing for me, it's changing for me because I want that for myself and I deserve it. And although it feels uncomfortable, I want to go there, you know, I want to do it.

Was there a kind of point in which it dawned on you that you hadn't had this touch that you needed? I don't know if I can remember there was a point. I mean, as a child even, I felt like I was loved and held, but I can't remember it, you know, like it's weird. I just felt like deprived that I felt like I needed so much of it and I didn't I didn't feel like I could ask for it

I didn't really know how so It's a tricky thing to ask for isn't it Well it's a rejection I was afraid of You know like so I didn't ask Do your parents know about How you feel about this? I think

well we tend to sort of joke about I sort of make fun of you know it's like that thing of sort of northern humor no I don't know if I've probably said something because I remember giving my mom mom and dad hand massages and that was for me because I I wanted to touch them so much I wanted to hug them but I couldn't so I'd found this way as a teenager giving them hand massages. I remember my dad saying to me once when I gave him this ham massage, she said, how did you learn how to do that? I just knew, you know, I just, that was how I showed my love.

So you think you've got, it's it, I'm a big believer in one of the great deceptions of all our lives is that we don't necessarily get stuff from our parents. And I think sometimes it skips a generation. And actually, you know, you can be more like a grand, a grandparent than and a parent. I quite like this idea you had something with your grandmother. Mama.

But I was tense when she held me yet she would just hug me and even like with sleep with her you know and that felt like

weird but she just had an openness to that you know she was like that so but I always felt weird

because I was weird I felt like I was weird with her I wasn't like and you were close to her I was really close to my grandma yeah

But I'm always, I think the physical side for me was always good when I'm with a partner because it comes out then that would find that easy with partners, the physical touch. That's good. Yeah. You just have to always have a romantic partner. Yeah, but there's a problem when you don't have one. And then it's a thing as well to kind of like train yourself to touch yourself as well. That's a huge thing for me.

and it's an ongoing process when you say touch yourself what do you mean in like all sorts of ways sexually and you know physically like just remembering that I can do it to me it's like it's like worth you know that I'm worth it like I'm still feel like I'm waiting for this other person to do it to me for me Are we a viable substitute as our own personal huggers instead of being hugged by another? Yeah, I think we can do a lot because I've had really profound moments from myself where I felt such tenderness towards myself. From yourself. And that's been almost like the most profound thing I've ever felt.

But then it happens rarely. Yeah. It feels like such a huge fucking effort to do it. I have to feel all of this discomfort within me, like, you know, like I have to go through all that I don't feel anything, you know, like, why am I doing this and all these internal things that are going on? Yeah, I mean, just in terms of a practical sense, can you walk me through, like, so not very much not asking this in a sexual way, I mean, just talking about touching yourself, like, in a kind of holdy way, how do you actually do it? Well, I did something recently, which was really beautiful, and it was very unexpected. It's where I was just looking at my hand, and I held one of my hands, just looking at it and just feeling my hand. And then I was just, I don't know, it sounds really silly, but I just had this beautiful thing happen where I just went into, I don't know, I was just able to hold my hand like somebody,

else was holding my hand like a lover would hold my hand and then I just saw how small it was and then he just felt this you know these feelings of recognition and and just feeling like oh this tenderness towards this little hand and it was really beautiful and I just like got really I don't know what how why but I was just able to click into this place where I wasn't, I don't know, I guess I wasn't expecting that. Yeah. To feel that from my hand, you know, just to touch. And it's just hand, there's nothing else, just focusing.

No, I'm just holding my hand. You know, like focusing on each one at the time, or just focusing on one, like, I'm going to hold my right hand now. I think, I just felt like what, what does this hand, so this right hand is holding this left hand, and how does it feel for my right hand to hold my left hand? to hold my left hand and what does it feel like for my left hand to be held by my right hand so it's like shifting these from one to the other it just took me to this different place somehow it took me out of my

head as well because I was stroking my hand I suppose something that it just so really it was really really beautiful actually I mean actually I can see you touch your own hands now you know I can see you know I can see how it would work it's lovely Maybe this is too much of like a therapist therapy question to ask you so obviously feel free to the question but like how much of this relates to like actual touch and how much relates to like who hasn't touched you enough like parents you see what I mean is that a valid question I don't really don't follow it no yeah that might be because

is this a bad question. Should I try to rephrase it one more time just in case? So it seems that there are a few things with your parents. They're not here. You haven't said that much, but, you know, there's clearly some stuff in the air which seems a bit unresolved to me from where I'm saying. Do I blame them? I'm pissed off with them.

Yes. Yeah, I suppose that. But also, like, how much? But also, I don't, you know, like, I didn't feel like I could be myself with my parents. Yeah, there is a physical distance for a reason. Can I say one more thing? I'm the kind of person that if I have a question in my mind, I almost can't leave it, come out.

You can ask me it. And I'm really content with you saying no. Oh, you don't have a choice. I just like to get it. You can ask me. I just like to get it out. Yeah. Do you think this could ever be resolved unless you actually do resolve it with your parents?

If they are the source of the lack. I don't think they're the source of the lack. Okay. No. What's the source of that if it's not them though? Me. Oh right. Yeah, okay.

But they've never done it for you. No, it's not that they've never appreciated me or they didn't do it for me. Yeah, I probably do still have unresolved issues where I'm pissed off at them. Yeah, blame them. But I know enough and I've been true enough. You know, I've got a choice. Yeah. I'm figuring these things out.

I know I've been through such a lot and, you know, I've been through hell and back in my life and I'm strong. And, you know, I do feel like I will get what I want. You're going to get the touch as you want? Yeah. Fantastic. I do. I do. Yeah.

I've enjoyed this bit about touch. first time I've talked about a touch, I think. Is it? Yeah, especially you're holding your own hand. Okay, so this is, we've just about done the massage. Yeah. Okay, so you've had your missuse time. I've probably go and have some of that somatic touch actually,

like a somatic therapist, that's what I do. What is a somatic therapist? Well, it's kind of, it's like somebody who helps you physically go through things and talk through things about when you're triggered and they will touch you and hold you because I feel like I want to just kind of be held like a baby for maybe an hour and a half, two hours, three hours, a whole day. Yeah, so this is the top of already the swaddling

which they had like a pace. Paisy, yeah. That wasn't enough. Just a whole day of touch. Fantastic. That would be like the best thing. So that's the ideal day, really. Yeah.

What would you think for lunch? I mean, you haven't had lunch? Oh, I don't know. You're seeing any friends? I'm on this bean diet. You see any people? No, I don't want to see anyone at them. It's like, I know, I'm saying, I want touch as well.

It just feels pressure. What do you look for in other humans? Somebody who I can, I guess, be real with, be upset. set with and irritated and be honest about how I'm feeling. That's why my best friend is a therapist. Clever. But how are you, your best friends are therapist, but you still religiously use Shack GBT as a therapist?

No, not religiously. I only discovered it recently. And I thought, wow, it's brilliant. Oh, I see. So it's just, it's really clever. It's just give you a friend a bit of a break. Yeah. Were you surprised at what it could?

do therapy-wise? Yeah, and it's not just that, it's other things. It's really helped me in lots of ways. I didn't realize how I could talk to this thing, AI, and doesn't get annoyed with me. But yeah, I mean, I walked all the way to Rye the other day because I could use this AI. You tell it to do something, it comes up with the information.

And then you just tell it to simplify it like you're a five-year-old. year old otherwise I get overwhelmed so directions to write yeah and then breaking it down and how long does it take me to get here to here yeah and I needed all that that's why I haven't done that I've been wanting to do that for five years I think that's really helped me to do a lot of things over the last months that I've been putting off because it felt like too much hassle and hard work okay does it give an example for me like when you had your moment earlier on the beach after the famous 15 minutes. Like, what did you put in then?

I say, look, I feel really shit, giving myself a hard time. I feel really disappointed with myself. And so I just kind of told it what was going on. All these different parts of myself that were judging me because I wanted to be like Lizzie, the social butterfly.

This is what it brought up. I remembered this thing when I was 21. When we went to Australia, I was really shy. I was pretty, so I got attention that way. But I didn't know how to connect to people. And we went out and lived in the middle of nowhere. I didn't really have any friends.

So on my 21st birthday, Mom and Dad had this party for me. But I don't know if it was for me because I think they were doing it maybe for themselves to feel better because I had one friend, and that was one of the people they invited. It was all Mom and Dad's friends, really. but I felt annoyed because I didn't want it but then also I felt sad for myself and disappointed again it felt that brought that same feeling that I wish I was somebody different I wish I was more social and Lizzie was all these people in my

life they become like my mum and I felt like I disappointed her today like she was disappointed in me because I'm not I'm not like her so I connected that today and I sat with myself and cried and you know to feel those feelings and stay with those feelings being with these parts of me that feel weird and making them feel like they're not so weird that's the stuff yeah that's the source you know that's the that's the healing yeah that's going on yeah but it feels like I'm getting somewhere so the 21st birthday was which wasn't ideal have you had good ones um yeah mainly when I got drunk though

No, that's not true. What do you do for your last birthday? Let me guess when your birthday is, just in the sake of it. November the 3rd? What's November? Do you say what's November? Yeah, what is, star sign is that then? Oh, I don't know.

Are you doing it star sign? No, I'm just doing. What, how is that relevant then? If you're not doing star signs. Why? What does that mean? No, it's not, you're not talking to... You're not talking to...

You're not talking to AI here. This is just pure nonsense, mate. You just made that off? I just wanted to guess, there's no... No, it's not right. No, it's not right. Can I try and guess yours? Yeah, of course.

September the 18th. You're not that far away. Really? Why is it? August 26th. I mean, like, you know, like, you're the right, you're the right kind of ballpark, you know? So, well done. How many friends do you have now?

I mean, how many, like, so if no one attended, you're 20th, apart from family friends. Like, who comes to your birthday now? My best friend, Lizzie, my friend Fee from London, Abby, Estella, got a name, Nikki. All women. Oh, yeah, John. Oh, let's get John in. Token, man. Let's get John in.

Call John up. That's Lizzie's ex-partner. We need one. We need one at least. Come on, mate. Come on, doubt. He's your ex-partner. No, it's Lizzie's partner.

Oh, wow. So that means Lizzie's going to have an awkward time. She's friends with him. She's friends with everyone. Yeah. No, that's another Lizzie. Oh, okay, sorry. See, any Lizzie's. Okay.

Is this a solid, yeah, it's a solid set? Yeah. Okay, great. Has any, has any, has any, has any, has been progress? Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Is anyone, is anyone, there's hope? Is anyone that's missing from this set? Like, um, yeah, probably more people that I can be honest with, people that I can talk to more, be more awkward with. I'm working on it. It's working on a few things. And yeah.

Is it quite tiring to have all this work on? Amidst your other work that you do for money? Yeah, it's tiring. I was going to say, I mentioned earlier about you kind of being a little bit envious of Lizzie's social abilities. If Lizzie, social brush by Lizzie, was here now, and I asked her, what are you envious of you? What would she say? Oh, if she was envious of me?

I guess I look at her and think it's like all about other people with her and I feel like she's overlooked in a way. And maybe she looks at me and thinks I'm, yeah, look at her doing, look at her doing her thing and that she has more time, I guess, for herself and, or it looks, you know, kind of looks after herself more. And it's, you know, kind of, I guess, in a way, you know, I don't know, I feel proud of myself. And I think maybe she doesn't feel that about herself.

Great. So it's quite a lot of nice things you considerate herself there. As much as it's like good to work on the stuff that we should work on, like, to go to celebrate what you actually have done and what you are as well. But I think people don't do that. No. Don't do that enough. It's easy just to kind of focus on all the things that we're lacking. Yeah, it's easy to forget how far I've come and what I've been to and where I am now is, you know, a very different place.

A very different place. I've got to ask it because you've kind of alluded to it a couple of times. He seems to have overcome other things. Can you say anything about what they are? Yeah. I tried to kill myself. I caught my wrists. I have scars.

And I took an overdose. It was about five, six years ago. I had a breakdown and I don't know I thought it was okay and then one day I sort of went to the doctors and I just said I feel really low and just sort of plummeted from there so I went through a really really like dark place where I didn't want to be here anymore it's like over a period of a month I made three attempts and the last one was I cut my wrists but I didn't really want to die I don't think I really wanted to die I just didn't want to carry on the way that I was carrying on and it's funny because I

wanted to share stuff like this on my Instagram and even like to share this with you today it feels quite it feels like the universe is kind of like giving me this opportunity to say this thing that I feel is really important because I got you know I bought myself out of it and it was really hard and I'm in such different place. I didn't know anyone when I came here.

I moved here about five years ago. And I've always wanted to live here. But I went to live with my uncle and auntie, left London. And my dad came over from Australia. And I was in such a state. and I had all this family around me who loved me so much and they were right there wanting me so desperately to be okay and I wasn't I felt so far away from everyone

and I just wanted to be and I just wanted to I just wanted it to stop. I just wanted to not be here anymore, but I didn't want to feel any more pain. So I was trying to find all these different ways of killing myself. I want to say sorry, but I don't want to say sorry. There's nothing to feel sorry for. About the universe doing things? Just when you were saying all that,

as when the seagulls are the loudest, they've been, about the whole time we've been talking, they just were doing all their squawking just as you were saying that. Like it was like they were kind of joining in at the moment for... Anyway. Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, there's a, there's kind of a million questions and no questions, do you know what I mean? Did it take doing that to, like, shake you into, what I struck me there?

You said that I didn't really want to kill myself. No, I didn't. I just didn't want to feel, I didn't want to feel like I could feel at that time. I was just a robot or something. It was horrible, it was a very horrible place. But also, it was very visceral as well. It was very, you know, like I felt like I couldn't feel, but I felt like I was in this other world where I was feeling more than I'd ever felt before.

And a lot of it was fear. It was fear. It's like hit me big time and I was just like this little baby again. I was so sensitive. So you couldn't even get out the house. It took me little steps to build up my confidence and I got a little job volunteering in a shop and that was in the next village and that was the first little step. And then I went and did some volunteer work in the town and that was another step.

And each one was kind of more hope, you know, more sort of building confidence again. And then I saw a therapist, this young girl who thought, how's she going to help me? She was this young girl, but she was amazing. She was, again, somebody that I could talk to, and it wasn't my family. So I think that's really, really important. Somebody who's like a bridge that I saw her for about two, three years. like once a week just talking to her and she would just walk me through stuff and my friend said you know this is one day you will look back at this and think this is the best

thing that ever happened to you and in a way it was now I can say that because it really I just didn't think I could take myself to a place like that and come out of it as well. So we're really fucking strong. Just for clarity, when you attempted to do this, were you on your own or your parents around? Or did they come after? No, I was living in London.

I've been in London for about 15 years working in London I'm working in London, but I hadn't been in a relationship for about 10 years. Again, I felt like I was walking around looking great, or I thought I was. But inside, I just didn't know how to connect to people, especially men. I used to sit in cafes looking really pretty and just longing for someone to somehow come and talk to me, but at the same time, giving that vibe who don't come near me.

Brilliant, yeah, yeah. That's so funny. I don't know. It seems you've learned a lot of stuff related to that situation. I suppose I want to ask you if someone was listening to this feeling in a similar situation

to how you felt around that time looking back now like if you could go and talk to yourself knowing what you know now what would you be saying to yourself I mean I just remember feeling or thinking I'm never going to come out of this

I could not see a way out I really couldn't I thought I was fucked and I was in a way because I was just looping in my head But I think the thing is, like, even like today, it's the same thing in a way, it's like, it's okay to feel how I was feeling. Don't let anyone tell you, that's why I'm angry with you, I guess, like, don't tell me how to feel something fucking different because then you're fucked and fuck you because that's the whole problem. you know we don't want to feel we're somehow trying to avoid these feelings and you won't you

know like I saw this thing on Instagram with this guy who's talking about mental health he said exactly how I felt like when you've got mental health issues when you're feeling that low you just want to be better you just want to feel better you don't want to be in that place that you're in um so i would just say get help you know like find someone that you can talk to and there is there is so much help out there as well there is you're not yeah you're not gonna feel better You just have to feel the way you're feeling and find somebody who hold your hand in it. You know, when you can't yourself and you'll come out of it. But you can't do it on your own.

Not when you're in that place. That's one of the hardest things as well as asking for help. I think that's a, you know, you don't want people to see you in that place, especially people that you love and, um, yeah, but you need them. And it's not a bad thing. Who did you lean on that time? Who did you lean on in that time? Who are the key handholders? I'm intrigued to hear, like, in that position as a friend,

what did the people that... Sorry, what did those that kind of did it well? What did they do well? Is that really any sense? Yeah. How did they do it well? As someone supporting you through that time? I think kind of, I mean, I had a friend.

She's my best friend now. I've known her for over 10 years. But at the time, I hadn't known her for that long, you know. And she stayed with me and she was. she kind of she did hold my hand through it she wasn't there all the time and she couldn't be there

like I did I had to move back home to Cosby which I didn't want to do you know but I couldn't I couldn't look after myself and my uncle and auntie I lived with them and they were amazing and they gave me

a room and I could look out on their garden and they were with me and my dad came over from Australia and we had some really amazing times where I saw a part of him that I hadn't never seen before and my sister came over

so I did have a lot of support even I've got a big family in Cosby and I find it hard to be with them and they really piss me off in a lot of ways but they're really, they're good people, you know, and they're loud people. I get a bit overwhelmed by them, but that time they just all rallied round me. They're like this nest. I love, I find it hard to be with them, but I absolutely love them to bits.

What they did for me was really amazing. a lot of love you know from friends as well and yeah and it's funny lots of strangers and you know I had a lot of people that's like the universe was sort of looking out for me you know even paramedics I have a lot of time for paramedics I had some beautiful people what did the paramedics do. Well, just the way they talked to me and they had time and they have to go through so much shit and... But they were just, again, they were just really with me and just had time for me.

And... Yeah. Wow. Wow. Now there's some big beats accompanying us. Um, um, well, we still haven't got to the afternoon to this day. I haven't even gone canoeing yet or anything. What have we got left, really?

Where do we go now? Anything I haven't asked? I know. I think I need to go on my merry way now. I think you've just got to go. Yeah. I think we've just done it. Yeah. How have you found talking to a stranger on a bench?

It's really good. It's been really good. Yeah. I'm really glad I did it. Yeah, thank you. I'm really glad he did it too. Okay, last question. You ready?

Are there to answer this in a kind of big way? No, I mean, what I mean is it could have a big, big answer or like a now answer. Either's fine, both fine. Okay. What are you going to do next? I'm just going to go and sit on the beach again, probably go for a swim. Actually, that's, yeah, and what we'll do, go for a swim. And then I can cleanse myself.

Big day for you. Very catharty day I've had. Momentous. Have a lovely swim. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Thunder and lightning outside my door

following headlights along the floor till I feel they're crying again face to the sky nothing can hold on to me I slept with my hands laid across my chest, and I had a losing feeling then, and I've heard it twisted before and I did my best you do the same for yourself until the feelings go

Mm-hmm Mm-hmm Mm-hmm Mm-hmm