Strangers on a Bench - EPISODE 67: What We Do To Survive

Episode Date: December 22, 2025

Tom Rosenthal approaches a stranger on a park bench and asks if he can sit down next to them and record their conversation.This is what happened! Produced by Tom RosenthalEdited by Rose De LarrabeitiMixed by Mike WoolleyTheme tune by Tom Rosenthal & Lucy Railton Incidental music by Maddie AshmanEnd song : 'Better Slow Down' by Tré BurtStream it here : https://ffm.to/betterslowdownListen to all the end songs featured on the podcast (so far) on one handy playlist :https://ffm.to/soabendsongs————————————————————————————Instagram : @strangersonabench Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a go? Do you have a favorite day of the week? Not really because any day that turns out well is a good day, no matter it is a good day, no matter what day it is. I like that.

Let's then pick any random day. What for you is a kind of day well-lived in the world? What time are we getting up? Let's say about 7, 8, 9. Then what happens after that? Are we straight out of bed? I'm thinking about what I have to do for the day, prepare my breakfast. What do you have for breakfast?

I'm a vegan. So tofu with vegan sausages or maybe just even some herbal tea because sometimes I like to work out. and I don't want a full stomach. Fair. Do you have any tea rituals? Are we sitting any particular place in your house? Yeah. My room exits to the garden, so open the door

and look outside with the birds and the greenery and enjoy that. Oh, fantastic. So you're just looking straight out on the birds. Yeah. It's mostly the small birds. I don't get a lot of pigeons, which is kind of cool. You're not a fan of pigeons?

Not really. I mean, I don't hate them, but I don't go up my way to like them either. But I do feed them when... Oh, you don't like pigeons, but you feed them. Yeah, well, if they're there, I'll feed them. If I go to park and they're there, I'll feed them. Do you feed the birds in your garden?

Yeah, I just put the food out there. Oh, amazing. Yeah. For how long have you been doing this? Do you remember feeding birds as a child? Not really. So what happened? Well, I love nature.

And since I've moved into where I live now, I've had that privilege of having birds in my backyard. And I think that when I open up the door, I hear the birds chirping and they start flying around, like they're waiting on me to feed them now. That's a nice feeling to have that connection. That's lovely. Why do you think it is that your soul needs that? Well, I believe that one way or the other, we are connected to nature. And animals, I'm sure they communicate within themselves and possibly they can communicate with humans.

I'm sure they do. And if they see or feel that positive spirit within you, they'll feel comfortable around you. Do you think you're a burden of past life? No. And I hope I don't be a burden next life either. Do you feel that are kind of disappointing, fallible creatures in the sense that

those that really care about nature often, or, you know, the creatures around them often prefer the simplicity of those creatures rather than other humans? Is that the case for you? Well, humans are more of a danger to humans. Humans, I think, have been misled and betrayed and gone astray to some degree. Who's betrayed humans? Humans have betrayed humans.

Humans have betrayed humans? Yeah. Is it always been the case, in your opinion, that that's happened? Well, I believe it's been going on a very long time. Like, now a lot of people are behaving a certain way in a certain way. don't know why we're behaving that certain way because the betrayal is so subliminal where back in the day the betrayal was probably more in your face you know what was coming but now it's so disguised it's so disguised that we think we're doing right but we're not doing right how is this

underhand subliminal betrayal occurring you think how yeah well I believe that this system this whole system is a lie. System of life, society. The system that we live in society, yeah. It's a lie because. How we have to live our life, how we're directing it. It feels like we're being controlled. And what if someone else took over that was on a different mentality, more humane, more

peaceful, more loving? We would probably live in a different world, but we're not. And a lot of people don't see this because it is a lot of people. lie and we've been living a lie so long that when the truth is presented we don't even know how to accept it how do you fit in then to that lie in a sense you know you can't not do it right as the nature of the system yeah how have you worked with it in your past I try to do a lot for myself instead of relying on what the system says to do and how to deal with it can you give an example as far as health there's so much things in

supermarkets and the grocery shops that's no good for us but if you take the time to research and take matters in your own hand you can live a healthier life like if you look at me you wouldn't think that I'm as old as I am I'm 61 now I try to better my way of eating and the way I'm living and compared to how I used to be or how I was taught or what's in my environment seems like it's normal and I've learned how to stop eating the things that I used to love to eat what do you miss then what are the things you used to love my background is West Indian and fish when it comes to me I used to like ox tail you know

West Indian style you know I cut out all the sugars and things like that just trying to do better for myself I don't push it on anyone else i just do me yeah so you grew up in the west indies i grew up in new york but of west indian descent yeah when did you leave new york 1999 and um i've been here since i have two children here what was growing up in new york like for you huh it was a journey it was a lot of things It was fun. A challenge was scary, but it was something to be proud of as well. Let's go through it. First, what was scary or what was challenging about it? Well, there's so many things that was scary.

I've got time. Go through them. I grew up in the Bronx and Harlem. And back in the 70s, there were gangs, but it wasn't like the gangs of today. you know these guys had chains and baseball bats older guys i wasn't into gangs but um as kids you know exploring the area in the neighborhood we used to go to these parks and we got chased by a gang when i was nine years old and you know i've seen death many times and this is one of the times when i had a meat cleaver put to my neck as a nine-year-old and When they searched us, we had toys in our pockets.

So one of the guys said, oh, these are just kids, let him go. I had family around me that kept me grounded, but a lot of kids didn't. And this one kid, he didn't, and me and was just always in fights. So he grew up tough. You know, I've had situations where See, America was a gun country. And the time I was working in a shop and five gunmen came in. It was three of us in the shop and they put us in the toilet in the back.

And they had this stuffed in this little tiny toilet. It was just enough room for one person but it was three of us in there. And they didn't just leave, they stayed for good, 40 minutes waiting, and then they called me out asking where is the rest of the money kept. And I told them that was it. And I got hit upside the head with a bottle. I got burnt in my face with a cigarette. And it was scary because when we was in the toilet, one of the government came in and start looking and seeing what else he can get, took the one guy's gold chain off him. So one of the guys, who I was with, said the next time he comes in, let's grab him.

And me personally, I didn't think that was a good idea because there was four of a gunman there, you know, and a real bad. But he never came back in. After that, they left. And there's other situations. I've had guns pulled out on me on the street. I've had gangs come rush me, robbery. I've known people that got found in the boot of a car or burnt up in a car or, you know. So you grew up with that in your mind.

In your mind, survival. And I guess that's why I'm so humble now, because you've seen it, been through it, And you want to avoid this type of thing. Most people in this country here, UK, they don't really have a clue what it's like unless you've actually lived it over there. Of course.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, for that. When you're nine years old and you said the meat cleavers at your throat, was that a kind of moment where it was like before then there was a certain innocence and after that it was kind of something had gone? No. Did you kind of think at that age that was possible? Well, no, I didn't think it was possible.

We didn't expect that. Like I said, we were kids roaming and exploring. Yeah, I was frightened. One of us in that group, he immediately joined the gang after that. For protection? For protection and for retaliation. And you didn't? No.

Why? I was never, never into that. You know, we used to have guys that we went to school with and we would always stick together. And, you know, we'd play, fight, we'd go to karate school or whatever. so that if anything happens, we'd have to try to protect ourselves. What do they want from you out of interest? I mean, why would you chase a bunch of nine years? They didn't know we were kids until they caught us.

Okay. And when you're younger, you don't see the danger as you do until you get really older. There's a time in the Bronx. I remember I was about 15, 16. And we lived in this huge building. it was seven buildings attached in a courtyard in the middle

and I walked up into one of the buildings and there was some guys I knew but these are older guys and they had guns out but it was very quiet and I'm looking at what's going on and I didn't get no answer

and then I looked across on the other side of another part of the building, and I see other gunmen, there were rivalries. And the shots started ringing out. And I thought I got shot that day because the bullets was chipping off of the wall next to me. The chips were hitting me in my face. So I ran up onto the roof. One billion, you could cross.

Okay, for roof to roof. so I got home two people got shot actually one got killed and about a month later I was coming from school got off the bus and the older guy

pulls a 45 automatic pistol on me he says where's the guy that shot him that he got shot I knew where the guy lived but I couldn't give that information up.

Then again, he burnt me in my face with a cigarette. Broad Daylight, coming from school, so these things will be really toughening you up. You know? These things will toughen you out. when you say they toughen you up like what else do they do to you it's a hugely traumatic right yeah they do toughen you up to those situations but they also must take a lot out of yeah of course it makes you trust people less yeah it may it could make me make some bad choices

like what like going to the streets owning guns myself i've never shot no one but um we had to have guns around us did you have them on you or just at your house or how does it work i wouldn't always carry a gun but it's times when i would have you know you you you you hear footsteps behind you you have to look you have to so it's no one you can trust so how did you learn to trust anybody i don't really oh you still don't no no one no i mean you can sense that someone might be not on that level but you always have those antennas up because i've come across people that will smile at you, but their thoughts and intentions other than it could even be someone that's close to you.

Sometimes it's the one that's closest to you that can harm you. At some point, you left all that and came here. What was the moment? You obviously decided it didn't want to be there. I wanted to change. I probably would have went back sooner, but children. I wasn't raised with a father, so I feel as important for me to be in my children's life.

Let's just rewind a bit, sorry. So why did you come here in 1999? My father lived here, but I never got a chance to see him. I see. So your father grew up here? He's from Jamaica, but he lived here many years. Okay. But he wasn't in your life? No. So you came to see him? Not necessarily, but it was a thought. Did you see him? No. Did you want to see him?

I did in a way, but I didn't have motivation because I was so used to him not be in my life. It just seemed normal. And then when I did try to search for him, he had just passed. Oh. What do you know about him now? Have you found out information about his life or you still not know stuff? Well, I know I have a brother and sisters here, but I've never met them. them.

Have you wanted to? Thoughts come across my mind, yeah. But I don't know what to expect. Why do you think you've stopped yourself from doing that? Why do you think you haven't followed that through? What happened is when I found out he died, it was a website I looked up and I saw they posted that he had passed away.

And I left a message in there. And I just never got no response. What did the message say? Rest in peace, dad. I don't even know if they know I exist. You know? Mm. But I was hoping for a response, though.

But I didn't get one. It didn't bother me. I just let it go. But anyway, when I said it made me make bad decisions. Yeah. I've made bad decisions, and I've done prison time before. But the system was set up. to get us locked up

you'd have to really know what goes on to really know what it's like so I've done prison time and that was one of the worst times was that here or in the US in the US this was a very long time ago yeah but um how long were you in there for

I've been in and out I got a good 12 years in not straight but you were out sometimes Yeah. That's a long time. Yeah. And American prisons can be hardcore.

Yeah. Can you tell me about that? Yeah, it was tough. Because you have people that was getting locked up for minor stuff, but you would get locked up with guys who were in prison for some major stuff. Were you minor or major? At that point, I was minor in the beginning. Then it got major.

No violence, just a weapon and possession of drugs. I've been to New York's jail, Rikers Island, very infamous. It was a nightmare. You would have to, as a humble person and the person that's not on that crazy level, you have to kind of turn yourself into one to survive. Rikers Island they take you on this bus

across this bridge and I remember I would have to psych myself up and try to turn into this monster on the bus before I even get to the island how are you doing that

just mentally just mentally siking yourself up because people are going to approach you or you may have to react to something a situation there were rules there were certain codes but for some reason I survived pretty well people kind of took a liking to me you know I was an artist and people loved the artists that would draw

because it was a way of setting things to their family to sort of soften their heart hang on so you used to draw in prison yeah and what did you draw anything I could and And sometimes you would draw for other people. Yeah. I would design tattoos for people, paint. I'd draw on envelopes. I'd even draw for the staff. Really?

Yeah. It was one of my best survival. Fantastic. Yeah. I wouldn't give them away. I would sell them. Yeah. You know.

So that was your currency, basically? Yeah. Yeah. I made good money selling artwork in jail. And also that kept, do you think, to what extent, Is it crucial to your survival as well? Yeah, of course. Of course.

So what you're saying is some potentially very tough people that may have hurt you didn't hurt you because you could draw? Yeah. I mean there's this one guy, never forget him. him, his name is Modog. He was down with a street gang called the Supreme Team in Queens, New York, and he was ruthless. He was like the muscle man, hit man type guy. And I would see him knock people out, just one punch. I didn't know him. I was very vulnerable, too. I was young. I called him, I said, let me have a cigarette. And he looked at me. He said, this is my last

cigarette. But you know what? I'm going to save you some. Why did you approach him out of interest? I mean, why would you ask him about his last cigarette? I didn't know it was his last. I just needed a cigarette. Oh, I see. But do you know of his reputation before you asked him?

No, I didn't. If I did, I probably wouldn't ask him. But I'm glad I did because he seemed like he liked me. Yeah. Because right after that, I drew him a picture for free. And he really liked it. And then we split and I ended up in another building because there's a lot of buildings on the island, a lot of prisons.

And I see him again. He came and he smiled with me. But the guy who came in with me, he beat him down. And for some reason, he was cool with me. What was the drawing of that he did for him? A dog. Because he was called Mo Dog. Yeah.

I draw a picture. pit bull. He loved it. How did you present it to him? You know, you just go, like, Modol, here's a picture of a dog. I just gave it to him. And so, here's a, here's a drawing for you. Yeah. So sweet. Would you write on the back? No. You're just a drawing. I'm guessing you sign it in the corner. I can't remember, I don't think so. And then you just hand it to him. Yeah. And after that, a whole lot of chaos was going around with Modog. And that's when I got to see who he was. who was he

he was feared I remember one time five guards came in and he fought him all off he was so vicious that none of the other buildings didn't want him because wherever he go

he caused chaos but every time he saw you who was like hi happy days gave you a hug not exactly happy days handshake handshake Yeah.

Were there any days in prison that you remember in a positive way? Was it every day a child? No, no, because, you know, what we would do with to survive in there was we try to have laughs about whatever we could. But you would meet some people's very sad for them, you know, life in prison. no way out and we would try to find anything with survival to make ourselves comfortable cook our food if we can hustle money me I was the artist that was my hustle and I got better too I got much better how often were you drawing like in any given day how many hours did you spend doing it it was daily got my mind off of stuff and then people would come to see me

And yeah, they always won't work for me. Apart from that dog for Mo Dog, is there any other drawing of yours which you remember, like he's one that stands out for you? Oh. There was one I really liked. There was this old guy, he was doing life, and he played the guitar. He played jazz and blues. And one day I just came, it just dawned me, I said, you know what, I want to paint you.

but you have to play for me while I'm painting what I'm paint so you went and he played me some blues and it just the music was another thing that made me feel good and survived in there

music and he played it and I painted him and it came out so nice I wanted to keep it but I promised to I give it to him so I gave it to him

hopefully he's still alive and he still got it oh that's beautiful yeah that's a great story but I painted in about two hours and all the time he's just playing away yeah he was playing that's great

so you're ridden out but like on the day that you were released after 12 years yeah what was that day like it was kind of like it was kind of like foggy in a way where you can't believe it was reality even when you're out in society the first couple days or whatever you're just you're not used to being around people so when you're around people

your mind is racing there's times when I didn't even see trees and started appreciating these things you know I'm strange at first you'd have to get used to it Yeah.

But it all depends on how long you've done, you know, and who's waiting for you when you get out. Who is waiting for you? No one. I got out. I didn't tell no one. I just walked. I could have jumped on a bus or train,

but I just wanted to walk, you know. But it's a buzz, though. It's definitely a buzz. How far do you think you'd walk that day? About three miles. What did you remember? thinking about on that walk. Going to see my mother and some of my family, friends, stuff like that, thinking about what I'm going to do with my life. And just looking around, thinking about

woman, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. Do you remember the first thing your mom said to you when you saw her? She's an old school Jamaican woman. I'm a son, my son. Big hugs, kisses. It's a good moment, you know, because I didn't rely on my family to look after me when I was in jail. I didn't want to put the burden on no one. She would come see me, and I had to stop her from coming to see me. Really? Especially when they moved me forever out. Because, for one, most guys do this.

When you're getting visits, it can stress you out even more. You kind of have to lock the outside world from your activity and your mentality, because your mind is going to be too much out there with them. That's got to be a pretty painful thing to say to someone, though. Yeah, yeah. Does she understand it? You have to cut them off, girlfriends, family. Plus, when they would come up,

sometimes they get treated a certain way. You know, you don't want to put them through that long bus ride. But with me, I didn't need anything. I was sending money home. Really? Yeah. Well, because you're at. Yeah.

Wow. And then on this walk, when you were thinking about your life, when you were kind of thinking, what am I going to do now? Like, what did you look to change? Well, I cut certain people off. I was more to myself. Because it was always influencing friends that got me jammed up. You know, and there's things that happen with friends that I wasn't there.

And I was so glad I wasn't there. And I'd go check people I've worked with. You know, I've never. never had problems getting the job. Even when they knew I went to jail, it still take me. Amazing. Why do you think that is? They knew me as a person, you know. You know, I just got in trouble for trying to make money, really.

It's all about survival because there was nothing really out there for us. And the system was so much against us. Even the schools are bad as far as helping you go in this right direction. It was no commitment. So I had to find out things for myself. Yeah. Hang out with older guys to learn what men should be doing. And I got some good guidance and I got some bad.

Because I've been let down a lot by the school, by assistant by my father. Like I said, I had to learn a lot of things the hard way. But I always felt guided and protected. Yeah. you know i'm not by who by god almighty i'm not religious but i know there's a there's a a creator hmm you're not religious but you're into the idea of a creator of course you don't need religion to know i see what you mean right so um i always felt protected Do you have nightmares about this stuff?

I mean, I mean, you're walking around. I used to. Yeah. Not anymore. Not so much. I have other issues with my children's mother and all that, but... What have children meant to you in your life? Well, everything, especially in the beginning, but...

That's a whole new episode. Oh, man. I don't want to ask you the tricky bits, but can you talk to me? me about the positives. It's just beautiful, you know, having children and doing things with them and teaching them. Things that you've experienced, whether it be good or bad, you want them in the right direction. But then he went pear-shaped when the mother decided she turned against me and it wasn't something she spoke about, but her actions told it all.

My daughter's much better than she used to be. She's older, but I could see the damage that was done to our relationship. It's gotten me into, I even got depressed about it. It's like, okay, that happened with my daughter, and then I try to avoid it with my son, but nothing was good enough. I get good days occasionally. What's a good day mean? A good day is him not dealing with me like he hates me.

He's okay with me. We had a good time, respectful. But he got to a point where he'd be disrespectful. This is current going on. This is very current. How old are you children? 13 and 23. My son is 13.

But I think that he may grow out of it. The last time I saw him, it was okay. The mother's to be, she's responsible for all of it. Yeah. Just for a bit of fairness, obviously she's not here. What would she say about you? She said, I'm not doing enough, which is BS. Because I know the streets, and I know, it's this thing about street smarts. Seeing things before it happened. Read the room. And if I see something's not going right and then later on it's going to be a problem, I mention it. Humbly. and then I mention again nothing gets done

after a while you're going to sound a bit frustrated so that's when she decides to say I'm a Mona but it's all for the positive but you've been with this person quite a long time so I mean there must be

some things at work I think that we struggle for a long time but you stayed with her though I guess I just try to work on the family because it's like my only family out here and I was trying to build and...

It's just what it is? It wakes up certain things in me that I... Of course. You know, I'll get upset about it. I'm learning how to deal with it now. Yeah. After all this time. Do you get a sense that, obviously, you grew up without a dad being around?

Yeah. Is that extra important to... Very, very... To kind of write that wrong. Of course. Very. 100%. And is it difficult to not have... I don't know, but like... This isn't at all of any kind of criticism in any way.

I'm just interested in like... Is it difficult not having an example? And you're having to make it up completely. You know, if I think in my dad... You know, he wasn't around that much. But, you know, we got on very well and we spent a lot of time together. I've got a good example of how he dealt with me.

what is it like not having that at all and just having to kind of invent it yourself so well growing up without one makes me feel like that's how life was but then i knew i had a dad and the thing is i never hated him i've seen him maybe four or five times in my life for a short time he came to america a couple times and the last time i saw him i could see that him to see me, even tried to kiss me and I backed off of him, you know, like, nah, man, I'm big now, you can't, you know, but I could see it in him, you know, whatever reason he didn't do enough, but I never hated him for it. When I did see him, I was, I was happy to see him. Do you wish you kissed him? No. Now? Now. Why? I guess it's a growing up tough boy thing,

you know what I'm saying? Yeah, but even now, you would have, you wouldn't want it? A hug would be all right yeah but a kiss was too much yeah I didn't grow up like that yeah with that with that comfort yeah you know but one thing though I could remember back to when I was like four years old and he drew a picture for me and that's what started me drawing so it shows me how much influence a dad could have with a child it's amazing it's amazing you thought that your dad only saw you four or five times and he only needed that one moment with you yeah to create a lifetime or something yeah it's incredible really isn't it yeah it is you remember what he drew for you yeah it was a man with a cap a cap a cap on like you know andy cap yeah

had that type of cap on just a quick profile picture and i copied it and i drew ever since So that's all happening right now in your life. With my children, yeah. I'm trying to make it right, but I can see damage has been done. It's going to take some time. My daughter, she speaks to me much better, and she called me when she was sick the other day, and I ran to her aid, supported her. Well, that's lovely.

Yeah. And I appreciate it that she called me and I made sure I was there for her. My son, like I said, he has good moments and that's what keeps my hope up. And the thing is, he's so bright. He's a type of kid. He's taught himself how to read notes on the keyboard and play the keyboard by just going on YouTube and learning. And when he's into something, he really pushes it. Do you have a fear that, understand really, that he would follow certain paths that you took? It's not a fear, but it's a concern. Yeah. And these streets are nothing like what we was growing up, too, you know.

But it only takes one incident, and yes, things do happen out here. And if you're following that path, you know, you have a chance of getting sucked into it. To what extent is kind of healing important to you? Healing from all your own sufferings in your life. Do you feel like you've kind of completed that? Do you feel like it's ongoing? Do you feel that's important to you? It's very important.

I see things differently. People, you know, I like to show people that humble side of me. I love peace. Don't like drama. I've seen it. You've had enough of that. enough of it yeah you know if i can live my rest of my days happily i'd be grateful and i'm fortunate i i feel blessed and fortunate to be here even with this because people have it a

lot worse you know this may seem like a pretty obvious question to you you know you're in jail for 12 years yeah as we know everything's the system Everything is an invention. If prison didn't exist as a concept, and you could decide what would have been best for you at that moment, what now would you say would have been the best thing for you at that time? A good opportunity for either a decent job

or to do something that I can enjoy and earn a living from it. Something to do with art, probably. You know, an open door in an environment where I can go and learn something. something and be productive. It would have been so easy for me because I take on very quickly and whatever you show me once and I got it. I've done so many different work. Like when I first came here, I got a job. I've never worked in the office, never been behind computers, and I never thought I'd end up in a boardroom with 20 people, managers, directed.

and I was a manager as well. They handpicked me. I want you to be the manager for this team for the Volkswagen UK, customer service. I never thought, you know, I'd be there. Went to another job, worked there for 15 years,

a scaffolding company, one of the biggest in the UK. We're putting out jobs for the Olympics when it was Olympics here. The royal family, wedding, Jubilee, a horse car parade, you name it this company did it and I was organizing material equipment 15

lorries a day single-handly because my manager who was doing it with me he was on his way out he had cancer so you know all I needed someone to open up doors and give me the opportunity and I was always able to stand out so basically you were always capable of so much yeah Yeah. At some point I stopped drawing for a while because I was doing some work for a couple people and they blurt me down and it just kept my motivation. Are we back drawing now? Occasionally, you know, I have a painting, two paintings sitting up on my table sitting there for about a year, undone. But I also paint in my head to think about what I want to do with it.

At least I'm doing that. You know what I mean? Yeah. Do you want to get these paintings done? I do. I do. It's always in my heart to start again, you know. Well, I'd like to see these paintings when they're done. I have a couple of my phones.

couple of my phone. Oh, great. Can I see? Is that all right? It's all right. I mean, I'm self-taught. You know, and I'm still learning. I'm always learning.

We're all still learning. That's for sure. It's actually a... Can you see? Am I allowed to just zoom in a bit? It's a jazz band. Oh, whoa. I really like it.

Nice. See that's yours as well? Yeah. Beautiful. This is the Harlem rush hour, but if you can see the outside blue, it's more like it's the same people, but it's... Oh, I like these. Oh, you're really good. I mean that.

One of the only things I buy is art. Oh, you do? Yeah. So maybe I'm your next person. Maybe finish one of these paintings and send it to me. It's destiny. You've got to finish the paintings now. Yeah. So what do you want for the rest of your life then?

I want to earn enough to buy some sort of land where I can grow my own food, probably in a nice climate. Could you get an allotment or anything in the meantime? I spoke to a friend of mine who does beekeeping and he has an allotment for cheap. You get involved with that? I would. I would.

I often think these things, it's like, we have our big ambitions. Oh, I would love to own land and do this. Actually, we can do something even before that happens. We don't have to wait. You can start enjoying it now. It's just that I would prefer another country because I would like to grow fruit trees and it's best in better climate countries.

Like sour sap. I like to grow watermelon. I would grow herbs, that's good for you. Two more questions for you. Is there one moment in your life you wish you had more courage? Like right now, I think I don't know if it's courage or motivation, but there's certain things I would like to do. I think the only thing that's holding me back is myself.

And I think also because of the stress and depression that I've been through, because I've been through depression with my ex and my children, to my children and I'm sort of like getting strong from it but yeah it had to be a certain way where I wasn't doing a lot of things and there's one particular thing that I want to do what's this one particular thing I wouldn't start this business it's been on my mind for over a year now but I want to be my own boss and I think that I'm killing too much time and I need to make those that first move. And the time is now?

Yeah, the time is now so that by the time my next spring time comes, I'm up and running. Yeah. Yeah. Can you describe? what we can see in front of us and how that makes you feel? Yeah, a lot of green

makes me feel at peace. There's these two trees up they always look at because I come here often. You see the path going up right on both sides of the path and when the wind is blowing the leaves move a certain way where the tree looks like alive

you know? And I know they are. and I also believe you can get energy from them you know you can charge through trees there's a connection and these are the things that the system has kept from us our connection and our other ability

like we have more senses than they tell us that we have because they're trying to keep us stunted yeah I see peace and it's calm there's no drama It's totally opposite from when I was growing up in the city. Where I was growing up at that time, New York was really down,

especially in my neighborhood. You'd see burnt-down buildings and empty building lots. Now it's just bricks on the floor and kids playing in it on old dirty mattresses. But yeah, it's a totally opposite from what I'm looking at here now. There's a decent energy. Great answer. There's a million different things I can ask you But I think we've got a really good snapshot of your very fascinating life

Thank you Thank you so much for sharing what you've shared What I've told you Most people I don't talk about it They don't even know I've been in jail, prison I don't tell people this stuff They're not on that level here and they'll look at you different You know I did tell one guy

And They would feel like they can't trust me You know So I keep it to myself I wish you the very best of luck and I'm keen to see more of these paintings as well but one last question which is the same question

that everyone gets at the end the question is what are you going to do next? What I'm going to do next? Well I got travel on my mind right now I have a holiday coming up and after that I'm trying to to go to Canada next year to see my family over there. And then after that, I'm probably going to go to a country

to meet some girls who's on a different mentality. And, you know, maybe I might meet someone because I find relationships really hard out here at this time. Right now I haven't been in a relationship and it does get pretty lonely, especially without my children being there like how I like them to. Of course. And I believe that there's a really

There's a reason that I'm being guided this way. Lots to come. Yeah. Yeah, thank you so much. You're welcome. Slid out of New York City fast as I could. They chased the child out of the neighborhood. Bright strokes of melancholy colored me blue.

But when I paint my picture, I let it bleed right through on paper. Back pages, whatever my heart found. Because in the red braces, there's nowhere to run, so you'd better slow down. I moved to London, raise me two kids grown and fed every pigeon trussing past my home But let me tell you about my master plan Land me in orchard on a piece of land I believe that my dream will come true

Because when I paint my picture I let the color bleed through Oh, paper, black pages would have my heart found. Because in the red races, there's nowhere to run, so you better slow down.