Strangers on a Bench - EPISODE 7: The Disappearing Cyclist

Episode Date: October 28, 2024

Tom Rosenthal approaches a stranger on a park bench and asks if he can sit down next to them and record their conversation.This is what happened!Produced by Tom RosenthalEdited by Rose De LarrabeitiMixed by Mike WooleyTheme tune by Tom Rosenthal & Lucy Railton Incidental music by Maddie AshmanEnd song : 'Yellow Fedora' by Hohnen FordListen to it here : https://ffm.to/yellowfedora Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a go? First question for you. You ready? Yeah, go on then. What's your favorite day of the week? I'm retired. I don't really have a favorite day of the week. You're still allowed to have one. Just in feeling, just an emotion.

I don't really like Sundays because everybody's out. I like it best when everyone's at work and I can move around and everything's open. But I can't honestly say I have a favourite day. I never really thought about it because every day is roughly the same for me. So what is, if every day is roughly the same, what do your days look like now? This morning I got up at four. I usually get up between four and five. That's pretty early. Yeah, but I go to bed early. And of course, it's the longest day, isn't it? And the shortest night. So I went to bed at 10 o'clock as it got dark and I woke up at four o'clock as it got light. But I get very excited about the dawn. I mean, if you imagine everything that happened in your life, when

you woke up that morning, you never knew it was going to happen. So every morning is, it's expectant, isn't it? You don't know what's going to happen that day. Someone could change your life. One day I met a couple and they changed my whole life. Oh my God, if we've got to ask, we've got to find out about this, who are the couple, how do they change your life? I met them in a bar in Hackney. A series of events, if you don't believe in destiny, led me to their table and I was reading a book and I was chuckling away and this woman said what you're reading and I said what I was reading, we had a brief discussion about books and then sometimes you share half a life story and I said I've been to India ten years ago and fell in love with it I've given up smoking so I

bought a bicycle to try and keep fit and I was born again cyclist my parents were dead my children were grown up I wasn't anymore, I had a shit job and I lived in a shit place. And the guy said to me, why are you still here? I said, what do you mean? And the guy said, why aren't the other side of Paris by now cycling to India? And I thought it was the most absurd thing I've ever heard in all my life. And nine months later I set out to cycle to india wow i got as far as anchor in turkey and then iran wouldn't give me a visa so i put my bike on a plane and i flew to india amazing and that was the beginning and i led a nomadic existence for 17 years. In India? No, no. All over.

Oh, sorry. Nine Asian countries, seven South American countries, Mexico, and seven European countries. Crikey. So that couple changed my whole life. What year?

2003. And in the February of that year I stopped taking drugs for the first time in 35 years of taking a coke and Smoking weed. What made you stop out of interest? Well, I looked in the mirror and I had a really serious conversation with myself I said your life is shit. Do you want to carry on like this or do you want to change it? I said I'm going to change it and I said to myself you know it just doesn't need tinkering with here and there it's got to be demolished and rebuilt and that's what I did and when I left London I told my children I said I'm not coming back what do they say about that well they say they said, that's okay, Dad.

You know, we'll come and see you wherever you are in the world. And that was it. That was the beginning. And I started again. You actually looked genuinely chatted to yourself in the mirror? Yeah, genuinely. I mean, serious. Not just fucking about, but serious.

Is there a moment before the mirror that pointed you towards the mirror? Do you see what I mean? Yeah, it there's too many drugs Yeah, I had I suffer mental illness and If she's making me worse, yeah, I left my wife In 2002 I've been married for 10 years and it cracked me up completely. I nearly had a breakdown Leave it. You mean leaving her character correct? Yeah, yeah. I loved her more the day I left her than the day I married her. But, you know, sometimes marriages change. Yeah. But it broke my heart. And that's why all the drugs. And that's why I went to the mirror and said, you know, you can't go on like this. You need to demolish it. And I did. And everything I owned in the world was on my bicycle.

Tell me more about the bicycle because it's come up quite a few times now in the brief time we've spoken. Well, what happened was I sold my car for 50 pound and I bought a bicycle for 100 pound. That's a funny swap. Yeah. And it was crap.

It was absolute crap. The bicycle? you couldn't you couldn't go out of london on that any further but um i was reading a book in a bar in hackney and it was called long distance cycling and this guy at the end of the table he said how far are you going i said i don't know maybe india and he do you want to talk to Peter in the market? And I went to his, it was like shuttered down with just a swing door on it. And I looked in, it was across between a jumble sale and a junk shop. And there he was, he had a big ginger beard, bright ginger hair. He had a hand knitted jumper that had holes in it, cycling shorts and walking boots.

And I thought, you look weird. And it turned out he was lovely. I told him what I was doing and he said, I'll help you. And every night after work, I'd go and we would talk about bicycles and travelling. And he took me to a jumble sale in Surrey, a bike jumble sale. And I saw a Chas Roberts. They were handmade bikes. You know, you sit on a wooden bench and they build this bike for you for £140.

And the guy was roughly the same height as me. And I got my friend Pete and I said, this is a Chas Roberts. And I bought it, but it was a mountain bike. And Peter dismantled it completely and he built it from scratch And he was brilliant. I had that bike for 14 years. I never had a buckle wheel It was virtually the same bike Yeah, I've gone through six tires and five saddles and yeah three chain sets But it was an amazing bike. It was my soul.

It had a soul. You know, it was part of me. What was it like to part with it? It broke my heart. I cried. Yeah? Yeah. How did you say goodbye to it?

I knelt down and I gripped it really tightly and I cried. And I'm a bit emotional now. I said, I've got to let you go. My bike took six international flights with me, but I was heading to England to get a new passport and a new ATM card. And then I was flying to South America and I couldn't take my bike with me.

It wasn't feasible and it's very difficult traveling with a bicycle. So I sold it for a hundred dollars and I put a sign on it. I don't care about the money. I want it to go to a good home. And this guy put his arm around me so I really look after it. And that was lovely. But when you travel, you have to learn to leave people, things and places behind.

I got diagnosed with cancer when I came back to England. What it was, I was living in a hostel. I'd always lived in hostels, in dormitories. And so I thought, well, I might as well go to the doctor's. I haven't seen a doctor in about 15 years. And he sent me for tests and I had to see the specialist nurse and she said um you've got cancer she said you've got stage four cancer which means it's gone to the lymph nodes and the bone yeah so how'd that feel when she told you that I don't know I really don't know because you can't really take it on board at the time. It's after it hits you. And she said, we measure prostate cancer on a PSA grade. And she said

it used to be anything over six and you had cancer. But we've lowered that to four. She said yours is 471. My chief pizza I've never seen any one that high but I had very aggressive treatment and within 18 months my PSA had gone down to nought point nought one so there's no cancer in my body now but I got suicidal again because they said you can't go travelling anymore and you have to stay in London and I'm living in a hostel with six other people in my room. I mean I had a catheter, I used to hang my catheter on the side of the bed, the drainage bag and I used to say I'm really sorry but you know I've got to do this. I used to say it's embarrassing.

Couldn't see the future of having anywhere to live in London. I was devastated. And then another specialist nurse, who's like my daughter now, I gave her power of attorney because I couldn't cope mentally with this. And she got onto the council and she berated them and they gave me a flat. What a wonderful person to do that for you. Yeah, I know. She's amazing i love

her to bits and we're still great friends i make her a quiche i'm quite a reasonable and we take it in for a lunch and uh i bring a little presents now and again because i love her yeah and um she loves me i think oh that's wonderful um so i've been in this flat for three years now, and I have a great life. But coming back from travelling, all I had was my backpack that was stuffed with clothes that I'd washed and worn a thousand times. And I had to reinvent myself. It was a bit like the look in the mirror,

that I had to demolish that old life and build a new one. But I'd done it once, so I could possibly do it again. And here I am today. Amazing. I've got so many questions for you. Go on then. I mean, it's just, I'll do the one that's nearest to me first.

I'm fascinated by this idea of demolishing your life, just ripping it up. That's quite rare. And you've done it twice. But how did you do it? You have to be determined. If you think if so many people don't do it, what would you say to people who...

Yeah, it was like stopping... The drugs was really difficult after 35 years, but I was very determined. I was really serious about changing my life. Has that determination always been there for you? No, no, no. But where did you get it from then? I had no idea. I remember I'd crossed the Alps and I was in a dormitory in a hostel, a youth hostel,

and I was writing a journal. And I was writing about this person that had done this. And I had no idea who he was. I really had no idea because it wasn't me. And this guy was my hero because he'd done all this. And I've never felt it's me. I've never felt that I've done all these things. Because I was the couch potato who hadn't been on a bicycle since I was a teenager. So I couldn't do that. It must have been someone else. There was like another me.

And this is why I can't tell you how i did anything because i didn't do it so it was like you were kind of possessed by yeah by this this amazing person that i really worshipped because he's done so many things that i could never do but yeah that is you of course yeah i know i realized it was me it's very difficult to take on board because imagine you wake up in the morning and you say to yourself, if I could go anywhere in the world, where would I go? That was my life. I used to wake up in the morning and say, it's time to go.

And I used my stomach like a barcode reader. I'll give you an example. I was in Kathmandu for the second time and my visa was expiring. So I knew I had to leave. So I run through my options, never make plans, collect options. So I run through my options and the first one was Japan. That's always been the top of my list, but I've never gone there. So I said Japan. It went, no, not really. I said the Philippines. No, not really.

Malaysia, Borneo, seeing orangutans. Then I thought of Pakistan. I'd always wanted to visit Pakistan. I could go back to India. I love India. And all these things, I got a blank. And then I said Spain because my daughter-in-law kept nagging me because I was old and she wanted me nearer and safer and I said Spain and my body said ooh

So I went to Spain and I didn't really want to go because it was winter. I landed in Madrid and it's minus one I looked out the window of the train and I thought where am I? You in Spain why am I here and that was happened a lot it sounds like to me that kind of there's a bit of a wrestling between body and mind here you know yeah I listen to my body your body decides stuff and then at some point your mind chimes in and says what are we doing here and then the body says well I tell you what we chose this yesterday. It doesn't answer. I mean originally when I set out I crossed the channel from Portsmouth to Le Havre and I'm stood on the back with my feet on the pedal and I suddenly realised what I was going to do. I said are you sure? And my legs started pedalling and I never got an answer to that and I never had an answer to all the questions I asked I just did it because my body said do this and I've learned to listen to my body and it's kept

me safe in 25 countries for 17 years people say to me you should write a book and I say no because if I write a book it's just words on a page and it's boring. I'm a storyteller. I'm a campfire storyteller. And when I tell a story, I bring it to life. I agree. And I'm an old man that talks to people and then disappears. And that's been my MO through all my travels. I have conversations like this with people.

You're good at disappearing? Yeah. my travels i have conversations like this with people you're good at disappearing yeah what kind of dad are you not the best Why don't you think you're the best? Because I'm not really suited to it. What do you mean by that? I always felt like a square peg in a round hole. Whatever I did, I did my best, but I know people who did it better. And when I started cycling across France, I thought I finally found a peg that

fits my hole perfectly. And it was because I designed it and constructed it. And ever since then, I've always known I was a traveller. Interesting. If you can go back and look over your life, would you have started travelling younger? No, I couldn't because I was a husband and a parent. Yeah. My two sons, I've got twins, were 24 and my daughter was 19 when I was there. They were grown up. Yeah.

My parents were dead and my wife was long gone. So everything lent towards me changing my life. Yes. I believe in destiny. I'll give you an example. This is how it all began. After I started to change my life, I just opened a new book, sat in my little room, cup of coffee, Saturday morning, and I thought my buddy says I want a pint of beer. So I thought okay I'll go to the local wine bar I can read me book in there it's not a problem so I walked to the local wine bar and it

was only open Saturday nights so I came back home cup of coffee started me book again my buddy said I want a beer I got on my old bicycle and I cycled to this pub in Hackney that had a bench out the front like this. So I thought, well, I'll just sit out the front and I'll read my book. And I went to the bar and there was only one person working. And while I was waiting, I kept seeing this woman out the corner of my eye looking at me. And I thought, you're an attractive young woman. What are you looking at this old git for?

And I couldn't understand that. I was just curious i mean it didn't didn't prompt me to take it any further and anyway she got her tray with all the glasses on she went out to the back garden so out of curiosity i took my pint into the back garden and there was a nice little round table just for two i I thought this will do me. Got me pint and I'm reading me book and I'm happy as Larry and then I didn't notice that the garden had filled up and suddenly two women with push chairs with young children in stood next to me looking for somewhere to sit and there was nowhere. So I looked at them and I said well why don't you take this table? I'm on my own.

I can always squeeze in somewhere. And a couple on the next table heard this and they said, you can squeeze onto our table. And that was the couple that told me to go to Paris on a bicycle. Oh, wow. So they had a story too. Would you recognise them if they walked past us now? Of course not. I wouldn't recognise them the next day.

But it's beautiful, the thought that they would have no idea that they completely changed your life. I would love them to know that they changed my life. But they did. Yeah, I know. But they don't know. It's amazing what you can do. A lot of people think they have no influence.

They haven't changed anything or done anything. That's such a good example about how you can just have a little moment, completely change someone's life. No one knows about it. You never see them again, but yet they did it. This is the beauty of waking up one dawn. You don't know what's going to happen. I met these two people and my body took me there. Have you ever said yes to something and thought, oh God, that was a terrible decision? I don't regret anything I've ever done because I wouldn't have done it if I was going to regret it and that's as close as I can give you an answer to that because I've done a few things.

Give us one. I was in Thailand and I met an English guy in a bar and he said look I'm a bit nervous about going in some bars because of all the women there. There's about ten women in each bar in Patio we were. So what's their role in this? And the women in these bars, what's their role? They're bar girls, they're prostitutes. Right. And they're poor girls.

They come from the villages and they come to earn money to support their family. And they send it back and their brothers and sisters can go to school and they take care of their parents. That's what it's about really. This guy said to me I'll buy your drinks if you come to all these places with me. So we're walking down this soya and it's just like bars both sides and I walked past this bar and I saw the most beautiful woman I'd ever seen in all my life. She was stunning and sexy. Of course, she had long black hair, beautiful face. She had rather large breasts that were tipping out of a bustier that she wore.

She had a little leather skirt, fishnet stockings, and black leather boots. And I couldn't look away. It ticked every box of my fantasy. So we went in that bar for a drink and I got talking to her and she said it's my birthday tomorrow. Her name was Jenny, we're having a party in the bar why don't you come. So I mean this guy went and he sat down with Jenny and I went to the bar to get some drinks and I thought there's ladyboys in here and mum grabbed me at the bar and we started dancing and I went back to Jenny and I said I've just danced with a ladyboy you know it was really weird and my friend said Jenny's the ladyboy?" I said, fuck off! And she said, yes I am. And every time I went past I would stop and have a chat, I'd buy her a drink, she'd buy me a drink and she said,

I want to have sex with you. And I said, I can't afford the most beautiful woman in Batchelor, I don't have any money. She said for you it's free. So she took me back to her place and I had sex with a lady boy. And my last holding vision I ever see was her in hold up fishnet stockings with a semi erect penis walking across the room to the bathroom. So yeah, I said yes. Amazing. And I'm not ashamed of it. Yeah, no reason to be. Obviously you've got incredible memories and adventures, but what are you looking forward to in your life now? What do you want to do with whatever's left? I don't know.

What do you want? I don't know. I was hoping my body would come up with a new adventure. And it hasn't. And I never really understood that. In February this year, I was unconscious on the floor for two days. And my daughter-in-law, I talked to her every day and she couldn't get me for two days. So my daughter-in-law was frantic. She thinks I'm dead. So she got onto the ambulance service and you're just at this point You're just on the floor unconscious for two days completely unconscious completely and I came

to in the intensive care unit four days later Kidney infections are really yeah. I was really really ill. I nearly died So you need you very nearly died few months few months ago yeah so and now we're sat at the top of a top of a hill yeah so so you turned it around well what happened after i was very depressed my cancer took all my energy away and i couldn't breathe properly and i was a fit young man when i was when i was leading my life around the world and suddenly I watched myself become an old man in two years instead of growing old graciously and it was a real shock and I believed it I was an old man when I came home after the infection I really had to work hard

I was in hospital for two weeks I had had to learn how to stand up again. It took me 10 days before I could walk. And I couldn't cycle because I had no balance. And I worked really hard. And I got back to roughly where I was. And I bought this electric bicycle because I miss cycling so much. And this is great. I love it.

Fantastic. I'm a born-again cyclist again. But I realised that after I'd worked so hard that I wasn't an old man so I was a born again young man but in the three years since I've been back in England I've nearly died twice but my body my amazing body has recovered oh wonderful and what are you going to do with it well I've been back three years I still don't have a friend I find that really weird I don't know why I don't know I keep asking that question. There must be a reason. Well I don't know I have many guesses one reason is because of my lifestyle people my age they've retired and they live with their grandchildren.

I have nothing in common with them apart from my age. And I joined University of the Third Age, which is like a big community for old people. It's all over the world. And I started playing Pataung with them. I've been playing Pataung now for nearly two years with the same people. They're not your friends? No, I've never had an invitation that's gone further than that. I also joined a Scrabble club

and they're all rich old ladies. They all live in Islington in big houses. I come from a council estate and it sometimes appears in my voice. So we're socially different, we're financially different and our lifestyle is different. And I call them FOPs

to my daughter-in-law and my specialist nurse. It's called fucking old people. I hate fucking old people. I'm 72 and I hate fucking old people i hate fucking old people i'm 72 and i hate fucking old people that's it is that i i can see why because you've got you've got so much energy and you've got you know you've got so much youth to your general character um yeah that's so interesting to me i mean what about your, you must, do you have any grandchildren?

I haven't seen my children for 20 years. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I don't mind talking about that. They said they'd come and see me anywhere in the world and they never did. In between my marriages, I had my children every weekend for seven years. Loved them, loved them to bits. You've got three children, but you haven't seen them for 20 years yeah all three all three have you heard anything about them no and i've written letters when i came back to london and was diagnosed with cancer and um i got no response and i went through possibly the most difficult year of my life alone and that really upset me. But I thought because of who I am and meeting people all over the world my body would take me on a new adventure and it never has. You know I'm still sat at home I still look out the window on

my own and I just developed this life like today just coming over here and reading my book on the park bench. So you might have grandchildren you don't know of? Potentially. Oh, I do have a grandson. Oh, OK. Yeah, yeah. I thought we'd know. OK, yeah, yeah.

Sorry, I forgot that. But it came about as a story again. When I was in South America, I'm on Facebook. And I got this message. I wrote back. I said, who are you? You know, she said, I'm the mother of your grandson. Who's 16.

And that was the first you heard about having a grandchild? My son got her pregnant and left her. But we've been best friends ever since. She was the one that saved my life. I see. Yeah. But how long have you met your grandson? Yeah. Okay, so you know your grandson?

Yeah, she, she... And what was that like? It was weird because he's autistic, so he doesn't like change. Okay. And he's a bit reserved. I made him a quiche and they loved it it and it was lovely but I went to knuckle him to say goodbye because I don't know isn't you know and he gave me a hug which was lovely but it was it was a tentative heart sure but that's still a wonderful yeah and I don't understand why I'm not invited up there, but I won't Go up there because in case he doesn't like it in case he feels threatened

So I get to see him normally every November when she brings him to London. So Maybe you can talk a lot on on the mouse. Oh, yeah, he's a Spurs supporter and I was I was an Arsenal supporter This is a bit of a big question. Do you think you've done enough? Or is there anything more you can do to have relationships with your children? I've done everything. I can't force them.

I brought my children up to make their own decisions in life. So when they make their own decisions, I have to respect that. Yeah. Do you ever think, you know, if you just turned up on their doorstep, it would be different? oh you did yeah so what was that like well I when I was come back to England from Nepal on my way to South America yeah I went and knocked on the door

and my wife didn't invite me in but she came out and talked to me yeah and I asked how their children were and things like that. And I said I was off to South America and then she said don't contact me anymore. And we shook hands and that was it. But you know, life's about adapting. Buddha said something, he said, try to be happy with what you have. If you want more you will always want more and never be satisfied. And I have enough and I have to be happy with having enough. We can talk for hours but I'm going to ask you one last question.

Go on then. The question is, what are you going to do next? I've thought about that and as I say, I thought my fairy godmother, I've always thought I had a fairy godmother that guided me because I've never been threatened. I mean, I was a bad person when I was young. I was a bad man, a nasty man. I grew up without parent intervention. I was the best fighter in school. I was a nasty piece of work. And that's in my toolbox. It's at the bottom of my toolbox. I don't bring it out, but it's there if I want it.

And because from the age of six, I was more or less on my own. You get very aware of what's going around you. At six, you can't deal with danger, but you have to learn to see it coming. And that's what helped me in my 17 years. I always thought my fairy godmother or my body would have something lined up. My next adventure. Yeah, but you're not quite sure. What are you going to do next today?

Let's maybe answer that. Today? Let's do short term. I'm going to go home. I peeled some potatoes this morning. I've got some braising steak in the freezer. So I'm going to have braising steak, mash and peas for my lunch. And then I've been enjoying this women's cricket on YouTube I like it because men have tantrums but the women just

smile and you know it's just easy going so that that's very relaxing I like that. I'm going to ask you actually one more question only because I'm interested in it. You said you were totally alone at the age of six years old. Why? Well, my parents both had mental health issues, undiagnosed. My father was never there. He only came home to sleep and he didn't really care about us. He got £3.50 off the social but he told my mother he only got £1.50.

So he gave her the pound and kept 50 pence for himself and we were starving. My mother was admitted to hospital for malnutrition so she went to full-time work when I was five years old and she told my sister to look after me who's three years older than me and my sister hates me and always has but I got hit by a taxi when I was six I ran out in front of a taxi and she got the crap beaten out of her because she wasn't looking after me I broke my arm when I was seven she got got the crap beaten out of her. So I mean it's an understandable wife but she has mental health issues as well, we all have. My nan

had my dad but she wouldn't marry the bloke that got her pregnant and this is in the 1920s so we're all a bit weird. I'm weird, I know that, I'm very different. I mean because I had to buy all my own clothes I bought nice clothes. I have six fedoras and I always wear a fedora I have really nice jackets. I have one that's pastel pink and I wear it in my white trousers and everybody thinks I'm overdressed but All my clothes are new and I like to look nice because I look like a bankership living out of a rucksack. I look different and I do things differently and we play baton and everybody's got these silver balls and

they never know whose is so I sprayed mine yellow and I'm the only one who did that. With the yellow balls? Yeah, yeah. Fantastic. Look, thank you so much for your time. It's okay. What's your name? Tom. Pleasure to meet you. And I'm glad you came by last week.

I'm glad we shared this. Some meetings are destiny. Yeah, I mean, it's a fascinating life you've led. Yeah. Whatever you've done, good or bad. A lot of people who I had the conversation with said, you've inspired me. Yeah. And I used to tell people that traveling's not about seeing places. I said, the journey is in here. It's how you grow as a human being. Because you're faced with problems that you never faced before and you have to deal with them on your own. You haven't got friends to talk to, you haven't got parents to advise and you have to believe in yourself to travel and these skills you're learning now you will have for the rest of your life. There are only two things that I believe in

One is destiny The other is the stories that I carry on my back That I depend on That allow me to disappear As soon as I get too near to someone When you're living on the road You learn to leave things It wasn't hard for me

That part came a little too naturally My troubles lying holding on to the few things that I had What I'd do to have them back Seventeen years without a home My parents dead, my children grown Nothing but a heart and a bicycle But I've still got my greatest adventure ahead To make and keep a friend When you have to burn the bridges that precede you

You wrestle with the wind Your body is a barcode reader It's better not to think about it Not the future or the past But none of it will ever last 17 years without a home, now all I want is to grow old Somewhere that I can call my own But I don't think my calling is over

yet I've still got my greatest adventure ahead one more thing I have to do left and make and keep a

friend but I love Keep a friend But I