Strangers on a Bench - EPISODE 72: Just Ask The Trees

Episode Date: January 26, 2026

Tom Rosenthal approaches a stranger on a park bench and asks if he can sit down next to them and record their conversation.This is what happened! Produced by Tom RosenthalEdited by Rose De LarrabeitiMixed by Mike WoolleyTheme tune by Tom Rosenthal & Lucy Railton Incidental music by Maddie AshmanEnd song : 'When We Land On This Earth' by Ella TobinStream it here : https://ffm.to/wherewelandonthisearthListen to all the end songs featured on the podcast (so far) on one handy playlist :https://ffm.to/soabendsongs————————————————————————————Instagram : @strangersonabench Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a go? Do you have a favourite day of the week? Drum roll?

I think it's Monday now. You mean you think it's Monday now or you think it's Monday? It used to not be Monday. It used to be probably more like the typical Friday Saturday. But then this year I've not been working and so Mondays is like, I drop my son at school and then come for a walk. And so I really enjoy like just some time to myself. So like I was just thinking it has become probably my favourite way to start a week. This is very good.

How do you spend these Mondays? What's the dream one? There's a backstory to how my dream has changed for Mondays. Oh, okay. So at the start of this year I was diagnosed with cancer and it coincided with me knowing I want to take a break from work. So thankfully I had just finished working. So I kind of found myself in between hospital appointments with a lot of stuff going on in my head. And so just started coming for walks on the heath.

Someone had told me to like talk to trees, which seemed quite wild at the time. Who is that? I told you that. an amazing kind of body psychologist who does osteo and things. Anyway, so I just started coming to the Heathmost mornings and just walking or sitting on benches and not really talking to trees, but just looking at trees for a few hours. And ironically, over a few months, kind of what should have maybe been the most tumultuous time in my life, people would ask me how I was. And I was like, I have never been better because I have just spent three months, like, just

walking and no longer living in this crazy kind of other life. life that I just wasn't in flow with. Okay, there's a lot so unpack. Let's go pre the new life. Yeah. What did your Mondays look like before this? Pretty manic, Manic Monday. So I work in private equity finance and so quite intense working weeks. Private equity specifically is raising billions of money. money from typically big pension funds insurance companies, you know, any institutions with lots of money and investing it for them in owning assets. And the part of my role was facing the investors. And so that meant a lot of travel globally. It was just a very busy life and a life where you're always on

and a life with long hours. So a normal Monday morning would be probably Sunday night. I'd already started getting my head back into the to-do list of what I had to do. And then you'll either be in an office or where you could be that he threw early in the morning getting a flight somewhere for the week. And so I think manic is definitely the way I look back on that part of my life. You know, I just started really Monday. I just not liking what I did. And so I decided essentially just need to have a break, both to reset myself physically because I felt burnt out,

which is ironic to then get the diagnosis a month later, but also just to question, do I want to stay in this industry? Yeah. When you say long hours, what are we talking? Got better as you get off. hold it but in your 20s you know you'd be expected to be in the office till after midnight every single day and and that's still normal now starting from where oh like 8 a.m. what? yeah but how do you how do you live? You get up at 5 a.m and then exercise before you get to the office and then you don't

have a social life and then the reset from really me was having a child and clearly that it became the priority for me and so you know the hours became slightly less intense as I kind of balanced it bit more, but it would normally be working after he's gone down to bed and things like that. And so I genuinely think that was a big contributor to me just burning myself into the ground and probably getting ill in the way that I did, because I'd look back and you're like, that's just like a crazy way for humans to exist or to live. How aware were you of how crazy it was during the craziness? Not.

I don't think you have a lot of perspective. and actually I worked with a kind of career coaches. I was thinking of leaving. And she said it to me. It's kind of like how you cook frogs. You put them in water and you slowly, slowly turn up the temperature and turn it up so they don't realize that they're boiling. Like that visual for me is like, that's it.

Because you lose your sense of normal. And I think in those organisations, particularly it works for them, for people to kind of make work their life and to give so much of themselves. And unless you really have a strong community outside of industry or you have other people who can kind of say to you, hey, no, this isn't normal. You know, I think you do just keep going and going. When I chose to resign, the number of people who are like, well, that's just crazy. Why would you leave without a job? Why would you leave

this job that pays a lot? You know, why wouldn't you stay for another five years and wait to make this amount of millions and things? And that's how they kind of justify it to themselves. I guess it's the nature of capitalism more generally and lots and lots of industries. But I think more people are questioning it, but a lot of people, unfortunately, still kind of stuck in the system. I mean, everything is a cult really, isn't it? It is. They're everywhere. Yeah, I used to work at Goldman's.

Quick question. Just for people who won't know, what is Goldman's? Oh, Goldman's, Sacks is one of the largest kind of global investment things in the world. And so I was working for them in New Zealand. And when I left there, it felt like leaving a cold. You know, they really want you to believe it's the only place to work. and that's how they kind of keep people. So this life coach was a game changer for you.

Yeah, she said to me, why wouldn't you just leave your job? And it was literally like a bomb drop because I said, that just sounds crazy. Because I think, again, your identity becomes your work or you think your identity is your work. And so I spent several months with her, and I got to the point, it's like, oh my gosh, like, yeah, this is just a part of my life.

I should just leave this job. And so essentially over the space, six months I kind of agreed with my work to leave and left at the end of the year. So I was not working. I was in that phase of just exploring what I wanted to do next when I found a lump in my breast and was diagnosed of breast cancer. But that's the ironic thing. My husband said it to me. My brother said it to me. It's like all those things that you actually kind of knew in your gut last year, you needed to slow down. The universe was just making sure you really got the release in and didn't just race back

into the next job still and kind of like chasing. your ego a bit and weirdly and that's what so I say to people say it was the most amazing gift because it is actually exactly what I needed in that moment. I'm guessing though you weren't thinking an amazing gift when you were diagnosed. Not in the first few weeks when you don't know if it's terminal or not. Yeah and I lost a very good friend who was a few years younger than me to cancer and so in the first few weeks my mind goes to the extreme and I'm like well I'm going to die and then I think slowly as you digest and you realize what your treatment plans are and

actually I could see a life beyond it again. What has emerged from yourself during, I'm thinking back to what you're saying about working until midnight and getting up at 5 a.m. And to cultivate identity is quite difficult beyond work, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what has emerged from yourself during the quiet times? Or what was lurking beneath that wasn't allowed to get out? Do you know what I think it is? It's more it's like stripping away everything to realise that your identity is actually just you without all the external things.

And actually just time with family and son being like, this is enough. Because I think actually when I was grappling with, you know, okay, I'll stop my job and then what do I do next? I'm still in the mindset of like whatever I do is my identity rather than actually just being. The old, like, you know, we're not human doings, we're human beings. I think was the thing that really landed for me. It was like, I don't need an identity that is anything external

other than just being here and being present. And I think it is. It's stripping back everything that over the year, years you feel you need to buy or you need to achieve to kind of be worthy or to have an identity or is actually just kind of how we land on this planet in the way that we are with people is all that really matters yeah yeah I really like that um... Talk to me about talking to trees because well it was funny it was funny as you were talking about identity and I was thinking yeah like she's right we pile these

these things on top of ourselves that are actually not really anything. I was thinking, yeah, when you think about it, like, you know, how different are we from a tree? You know, and I said, that's what I was thinking. Talking to a tree is almost like, well, that's like what we are in a way. Yeah, so that's kind of how my journey went, is talking to trees, this therapist I've seen. Funny up, I went in to see him last year before I got diagnosed. And I said to him, I'm really happy, I'm about to get married. And he could see it.

He's like, yeah, but you're still wired. Like, you're supercharged right now, and I could feel it in myself, like being really, really kind of highly strong. And he was like, you know, you're not meant to move at the speed. And so he kind of said, just go watch the trees and watch how slowly trees move. Everything in the universe should be operating more at that frequency.

You know, if you watch nature, it's kind of moving at the frequency that we should be moving it. And so that's what I started doing. And I did find, actually, I would just the pace of my walking. You know, I'd really start ambling through, the heath rather than power walking and thinking about steps. And that was, you know, really howled. And then I was saying to him, well, in the moments of anxiety,

or if I'm feeling stressed, and I can't quite put my finger on, like, what it might be. He was like, well, just ask the trees and start talking to the trees. I was like, that's kind of crazy. But then it does work kind of allowing your subconscious to answer things for you rather than just always being in your mind. And yeah, but it is, you know, you need to kind of lose the shame element because, you know, if you're walking around sometimes, like, talking or hugging a tree, you just need to lean into it and trust that there's enough other widows out there that will get it.

I'm quite a fan of hugging trees. I think you do kind of feel something. Yeah. You know? The first time he ever did it was when I was pregnant with my son and he was overdue and I was beginning to get really anxious about it. And I just said to my husband, I was like, we need to go to Heath and I'm going to hug some trees. And it was the first time I've ever done it.

But it worked. He came like that night. Yeah. I mean, it's funny. I mean, you say that even now you say me talking to trees and looking at trees, it's crazy. Yeah. You know? You've also said that, rightly, that working until midnight, Gary Bay is also crazy.

I think it's that conditioning, isn't it, about society? And actually, from very early on in my life, I was really interested in, like, Eastern medicine. But it's even that awareness of the West, we're very conditioned to things which have kind of been scientifically, or, you know, like accepted by society or normalized since Industrial Revolution in the last only 100 or so years is what's normal. And then anything that is slightly alternative to that is, yeah, you kind of have to disclaim it in a way, don't you? Yeah. I had a thought, as you were talking about steps as well. You know, I'm so guilty of this, but it's like, again, way to measure ourselves against ourselves and others.

so-and-so does 20,000 a day or so-and-so, you know, whatever it is. And actually, what's important is, you know, maybe one step of those is the key step. Yes. The step that you took to go towards that tree to talk to that tree was the thing. But you can't measure that. Yeah. Is there one particular tree, by the way, that you talked to that you felt gave you the most whatever? There is one particular tree that I walk a lot.

What is it about that tree? Like it looks slightly dead but then it comes to life. Oh that's interesting. You chose a dead tree. Yeah and it really appeals to me because it's just like, looks resilient or something. And it has like sparks of life on it, but equally it. Interesting. Yeah.

And it's in a pocket that is kind of by itself. How long could you spend with this particular favorite tree? I can sometimes sit there for like an hour. But I'll often like take my notebook and journal, which is another thing that I've never done before, but Sometimes I'll just sit there next to it and just ride and write and write and write or leave voice notes. Like particularly coming into like surgeries for this year. Be nervous and worried about my son. I'll just leave him like lots of voice notes and things.

And so it's been like a space that's kind of held me. What kind of voice takes you leave your son? It's slightly morbid like if anything went wrong in the surgery. These are all the things I want you to know about me. Does your son get them like is it for the future and get him out? my best friend and I say if anything goes wrong in the surgery, here's all my voice notes. He's only five. I was a bit like, poor kid.

He comes home, he's got 20 voice notes from mum going, if I die, remember that. It's more all the stuff I just couldn't say to him now because actually the gift of him being five is he has no idea what cancer is. And so in his head there is no concept that mum doesn't get better, which has been such a gift going through at all. But have you found yourself saying anything in those voices? notes that surprised you. Like, what, did anything come out? I think a lot of the things that we were talking about, about your worth kind of being just who you are.

And don't feel like you need to live your life, aspiring to be anyone else or to do anything. Like, that is the one, or one of the gifts of working and, you know, finance and being ridiculously rewarded is I think actually, you know, that kind of privilege that my son doesn't need to worry so much about money. and he can actually choose something that he's passionate about rather than just kind of following the system, then I think that would be one of the biggest gifts we could give him.

Can I ask you some difficult questions about money? I like, I'll interest in money. I'll start with some gentle ones, but money must have been quite a big driving factor in your life at early doors, to work till midnight. I think I was driven more by the worth thing. I always love numbers from very little, but actually money wasn't the motor.

I was kind of surprised by what people earned. It was more, I want to get to the top of this industry, and by nature you actually make a lot of money. So I'm one of the few people in an organisation who will argue with my colleagues that we should be paying a lot of tax. I think what people in finance earn is stupid money. In leaving my job last year,

talking to people in the industry who'd say, I would love to leave my job, but I could never give up the money. Actually, I'd reach that point that I was like, I don't care about the money. I think that gave me the freedom to choose to take the back. So that's kind of important that you have that quality in the first place. How do you feel about money now? Do I mean, has that changed at all?

I think I've recognised that there's still a level of lifestyle, etc. that I need to work. You know, part of my not working was, wow, could I just do something completely different? And I really actually know I probably do need to go back to work and continue. to earn because you live in London you have a certain cost of living. But I definitely became very clear and as I started looking at new opportunities, you know, the one thing that's going to be important is culture and so like gave up quite significantly more lucrative options because actually I just knew the culture wasn't going to be a fit.

So I feel quite clear now about its importance in my life. Is that going to be tricky to like, obviously you've had this dive into, a new world that's going to be forced upon you. Yeah. Is it going to be quite hard to, I don't know. Like, it's hard to turn off our own kind of instinctive competition element of ourselves. Yeah. Kind of, you're back into working, you're like, oh God, like this is my, surely this is what.

I've defaulted. Yeah, this is what got me into trouble in the first place. Do you know what I mean? That has been my biggest fear and I've had this creeping anxiety over this like, like, you know, a few months have been like, I've never been so present. I've never been so calm. Like, yeah, is it all going to come crashing down as soon as I step back into an office? And, you know, there's still a little bit of doubt.

But I think the thing that makes me a little bit more confident about actually kind of going back into, frankly, finance a different ways, kind of practices and, you know, just things that I'm doing that actually I think I just feel a lot more grounded. And I think so long as I continue to do those, like getting out into nature and I get up earlier now when I kind of, you know, if it's breathwork meditation or Kundalini, I kind of have been quite committedly doing quite a few things that I think already set me up in a different state. And then I think the last thing is, you know, finance is quite a masculine industry. One, there are a lot of men, in particular when I started. It was getting better, but, you know, at senior levels there still are. And I think the last job I was in, I frankly kind of lost touch in my feminine, kind of to survive.

I just, you just take on a lot of that kind of slightly agro-egotistical culture and absorb it into you. And actually, when I said, you know, culture is important. I deliberately, like, focused on firms where I felt that wasn't so prevalent. But also, I've been quite clear about the type of person I want to be in the firm. You know, like coming with family and actually being able to be a bit more authentically me. Yeah. Are there only all-female practices or firms? Not at all. Can you start one? Talked about it with other females in the industry.

Oh go, you could do it. How hard could it be? Just get together and say, let's do it. Yeah. You've already talked about it? Yeah, we have. Well, stop for you. Come on, start it out.

You can do it. You've come this far. We could. Do you know what I think it also is, though, is it's the point about work suddenly not being your life. And I think a lot of other females reach that realization, and it's like actually anything entrepreneurial, or kind of in this chapter right now

while my son is young, it's like, I kind of want to do it, but it doesn't feel like right now because what I have realized this year is actually that is much more important than anything I'm doing work-wise again. Sure, sure, sure. I don't have that many finance gurus on the bench.

What, guru? Maybe this is unfair. Do you think it has a kind of bad, you know, finance is a bit of a bad rep generally, if you don't work in finance. Is that fair? I think it does. My husband and I met on Tinder,

which I have to say it was like when it was first released and not, I think, what it is now? Early Tinder. It's when you're looking for relationships. And he works more on social impact consulting. And on our first date, he made a comment about bankers being essentially the devil. And I had to break it to him that I had been an investment banker

and I worked in finance. And, you know, it was one of those things where he would have never have gone on a date with me if he knew. He led with that. Yeah, and to his credit, he was able to look through it. And to my credit, I was able to win him over that we're not all that fad. But it's true. You know, I think that is.

And actually because particularly, you know, in the areas that he worked, you look at the global financial crisis and how much I think the finance industry has created it. inequality in society. You know, I do think, I find it really triggering. I think probably because also been through the healthcare system is like, how can people who sit behind deaths and just create paper wealth, earn so, so much more than people who are bringing real value like nurses and doctors and people like that? I just think something's broken with society, and I think, unfortunately,

the kind of finance industry does have a loud voice into government and people who influence. And so weirdly, even though I'm in the inside of it, you know, there's a lot of parts that I see and I think it's kind of fair that there's that attention that has come towards the sector. But, you know, as my husband says to me, it's like, yeah, but you can kind of fight for the good model of finance whilst you're on the inside

rather than just leave it, you know, and so there is a lot of investment that particularly private equity can bring to lots of companies, etc., that government doesn't have the money to bring and to reinvest in things. You know, there's virtues, but I think it should be kind of regulated.

I think there should be more equality with taxes. Yeah, I'd say I'm probably one of the few on the inside who thinks it's... Yeah. So you're kind of aware of the kind of the darker sides of it. Yeah, there's good people within it, but I think unfortunately, it's part of a system that isn't necessarily great for the whole of society. Can you tell me what the darkest thing that you've seen inside it, this is a good one. Something about to happen at 11.30 at night.

What are the truly dark bits that you've seen during your time? I'm trying to think. I've probably pushed it so fast. to the back of my mind. It kind of to that normalised point again, you know, like it becomes so normalised that nothing stands out. I'm trying to think. You know, this is a little same reason.

It was not in my office, but I heard in one of the other offices, when I first came to London, is people having, like, cocaine and the salt shaker to literally keep people going. And it was just completely normal. Yeah. So definitely some, you know, like stories like that

where you're like, this is just wrong and weird. Yeah. There must be people that fall apart. Yeah. You must have seen that. Yeah. Or maybe they just keep it to themselves. I think keep it to themselves.

Do you keep, here's a question. We could say that you fell apart. Is that fair? To an extent. Yeah. I think my body fell apart. I think my nature is to be resilient and kind of push through and not complain. Yeah.

And, you know, see that as a virtue. And so I think I probably fell apart on the inside while trying to, like, like hold it together. Yeah. So the question is to what extent do your former colleagues know about what's happened to you and how you feel about it? Do I mean? How communicative have you been about your story?

I've been quite open because I think in terms of if I'm going to stay in this industry, I want to change, or at least the way that I work and be more authentic and not play the game. I kind of have a platform in that I set up a foundation for. for the industry to give more to charity because in terms of we in finance make a lot of money, we need to give more back. That was actually like one of my ways, I guess, of trying to bring that more to the fore. That's cool.

So, yeah, I have been pretty open about it. Even in taking this long off, it was announced last week that was coming back because, like I said, I've taken a long break because of cancer. How is it announced? I'm just in media releases and things. Really? Like a big announce? Yeah.

Are you a real big though? Not that important, no. I was a shocked that they were even interested in writing it up. What was the headline? Stranger X coming back, watch out. Yeah, something like that. Yeah, so it was quite important to say like I've had a long break because of cancer, you know, and a bit of curveball.

Yeah. I suppose it's too much responsibility to put on just your shoulders, but do you have an interest in kind of saving people from what you've had? from what you've had to go through. Yeah. It did suddenly come to me, I think, probably while I was talking to a tree about whether I go back into finance or not, it's like, actually if you do,

this is one of the things. Show younger women how they don't need to give up their soul or they don't need to kind of give up their identity to stay in this industry. That's my way of kind of passing on the learnings of it off. I was just laughing there, because I was just imagining,

you're talking to a tree about whether you should go back into finance. Yeah. The tree's like, no. The tree's probably not saying, yeah, go, I would see right back into that financial world, actually. That's my first thing I would do. Actually, this is quite a good one. You actually kind of know what a tree would say.

I once ran a half marathon for a charity called Trees for Cities, something like that, it's a tree charity. And I asked a friend of my mum's, who's sadly no longer with us, if he would donate. And he was a big Trees fan. And for whatever reason, this email, he just said, you know what I've got a feeling that if you just gave trees machine guns they would just kill everyone that's always stayed with me yeah like my therapist always says like the trees are watching us

thinking you guys are just that shit crazy like rushing about because they were like if you think of yourself as being tree speed and then they watch you you are like these crazy little ants like racing around the head and they're just like looking at you like you're idiot It really helped. You're like, should I go back into finance? Instant death. Maybe you can have a kind of tree-based firm, where they just, you know, one day a week

or just spend time working amongst the trees. Well, do you know what? Like that's kind of the philosophy of my son's school is that kids will do much better work. Like they say for boys particularly, like they'll come out and teach maths amongst the trees and things because it's a lot easier for,

them to focus and to sit down and actually engage with things. So you've got an idea there. Like, why does it change when you reach a certain age? It just doesn't, does it? Yeah. We've just been told to go sit in these boxes and offices. I feel you've got it in you to do something a bit funky. Really.

Especially if you're this big dog who's being announced, you know, on all these things. They get the trumpets out to announce your arrival back into work. You know, it's pretty mega. Let's dive back a bit if we can. into, I'm interested how you became, you know, you said you're just good with numbers. Obviously, like, really competitive. Yeah. You just like to kind of just do really well.

So, yeah, I'm just curious about this kind of number monster winner and how she came to be. Yeah. Yeah, sorry, I always, I think numbers are like logical, you know, like, there's a clear kind of rule-based kind of system to how they work and so it just felt easy for me. But I equally had no idea like how the world of finance works. It wasn't as a particular career that I was drawn to. I went into university being like, I'm just going to do all the papers that are to do with like numbers and see if something comes of it.

And then when I was at university, there's probably friends who were like, actually these are the like interesting jobs and investment banking and things like that. Because actually that is one thing I knew in the world of finance, you kind of have the listed world, which is the stock market, so people who go in like trade shares, and that's much more, I wouldn't say it's like gambling, but it's much more kind of picking trends and high, intense, short-term working where you're trying to trade the market, or there's the unlisted kind of private world, which is where you're buying actual single big companies, like a big water company. So it's much more long-term, and I already got an inclination

that actually I preferred the slower moving versus, you know, the kind of intensity and the higher risk side of it didn't appeal. But I completely by accident fell into actually doing investment banking jobs because someone just said, yeah, you'd be good at it, you should do it. Who is that? They had quite a profound impact. Yeah, I know. You should just do it. Okay. Yeah, and then when I moved to London,

I thought I want to get out of investment banking, I don't want to work for Goldman's. And they said we could move you up to London, but I have friends who were literally working 51 or 52, weeks a year in the office. If I moved to London and work for you, I will literally see the Goldman's office and nothing else. So I knew that wasn't me.

But again, just following someone else's advice on what I should do with my career, the guy who ran Goldman said, you're actually really good with people as well. And maybe you're someone who shouldn't just live behind a computer for the rest of your life. And so that's how, when I land in London, I was like, okay, I'm going to try and look for a job that's in this area. I was interested, not that you didn't answer that question well, but I was interested actually mostly the time before like early childhood.

Well, no, that's what I was going to say. So then when I'm reflecting on if I want to stay in finance or not, I go back to how did I actually end up in it? I'm like, gosh, often it's been people telling me to do stuff. Do stuff. You know, and have I ended up here purely because I've been doing what other people have said rather than what I like myself? And actually I asked my mum, because I was like, how did I end up doing math subject at

school? She was like, they used to have this nerdy little computer thing that you had to do equations on and you just loved it from an early age and I did you know and I really what was it? I do remember it. I said if I ever got any of the maths questions wrong I'd reset the whole machine so I could do it again and get like 100% and I'm like that's like yeah to your point about perfectionist true. You were training early but obviously you were just really good at that.

Yeah and you know I think the thing that I have enjoyed this year is I've always thought when as a result I'm not creative at all and I've just thought well that's just not one of my abilities but this year I've kind of been trying to lean into like Like it doesn't have to be all about the, you know, the numbers. Doesn't have to be all about the numbers. That should be on your something. Tattoo. I'm thinking of like a tattoo to get to remind myself to stay grounded.

Maybe that's it. That's a good one to remember. I like that. I feel like it's a funny one, isn't it? Where sometimes it's such a curse to be just naturally good at something. It doesn't mean you're not good at other stuff. It just means you just didn't do it. Yeah.

But actually, there's a whole world in you that isn't that, right? Yeah. I'd say goes with anybody, really. Do you think on the flip side? Can so-called creative people get into numbers more? Yes. Have I ignored my numbers side? Funny enough, like one of the things that I've been driving a lot through our foundation

is like social mobility and encouraging more people into the finance industry for more disadvantaged backgrounds. And I say that to a lot of the students is like some of the best people I've hired haven't done degrees at university at anything to do with numbers. They just have ability to think with a little bit of curiosity, So you reckon I could do it?

Easily. Half of it's been able to just talk to people. You clearly got that gift. I could be an investment banker. I didn't realise. And you know, people don't realise. It's not as hard as I think people within the industry make it out to be. And therefore it does keep it quite exclusive. I'm so really intrigued about maybe the answer to this is very boring, but I want to know anyway.

Like, what is your day made up? made up? Like what, how does it, like, what is it? Yes. Like, what do you actually do with your date? Do you what I mean? Yeah. That weird question. It depends, you know, I kind of talked about we get money off people and then we put it into businesses. Yeah. So someone like myself will be much more being on planes, going out, talking to investors around the world, who manage billions in capital and saying, we think that you should invest in the UK or in Europe, you know, and convince them to kind of think, to allocate

you 100 million and then I will go to the investment team and that's a large part of the finance industry and they will be sitting there saying what are really good businesses that are stable and safe that we could put that money into so whereas my life is more outward facing and actually talking to people these days a lot of their life will be sitting with an excel model and saying okay what do we think will happen with that business how do we forecast the revenues of that business and try and come up with a value and therefore we and therefore we should buy it for this price and we can make heaps of money

when we sell it in 10 years' time. And look at all different types of businesses and work out what's a good buy right now. Sure. Okay. So you've got to persuade people to give them a load of money. Yeah.

What would be your... Because everyone needs, including my children, you know, everyone needs to persuade people to give them money at some point. Yeah. You know, you just do hundreds of millions but people might have to do you know, a £5 a pound, a pound,

do you know what I mean? For a chocolate bar, like, you know. You know, what are your kind of top three tips persuade people to give you money? As someone who does it relentlessly, in the high echelons of money. Because surely it's the same tactics, no? I think the first one is, you know, come across as like, you know, professional and credible, you know, show up in a certain way, ask for things in a kind of clear, cliques, articulate way.

So if I was telling your child this, like, look credible, don't just be whining about it. it just look good dress well come with the plan yeah well that's going to say the next one is just be really clear nice I need it for this to get this and you'll get exactly I've got a friend who does actually have a lot of wealth so their kids rather than them expecting they can get anything they have to write a PowerPoint presentation and make an actual business case for why they deserve anything that they get from their parents and so I think it is that it's like actually like generally be able to make a case and then I do think the last one comes to actually just be like a likeable and authentic person you know coming to that point I think people

don't want to feel like they're being sold or they're having like they're will pulled over their eyes and so I think the more you can just build a genuine relationship it's trust do you actually trust that person to look after your money yeah that is the you know the bit that ultimately I think unlocks you know a relationship when do you say the bit like in the chat when do you go so we're thinking 100 billion I don't some people would say that whereas I just sit Let them tell me what they're thinking. Oh, you see. That's a me, I'm not a push.

Oh, I see, cool. Yeah. So they will tell you, oh, we've got X amount. And you say, yeah, that's a good idea. And also, you probably wouldn't push it on your first, you know, your first day. On your first day. I would just go straight at 100 million. You'll probably build the relationship and the trust before you go to how much money can I have from you.

You mentioned your friends who has loads of money. Yeah. Their kids have to do a pound point. How do you want to play it with your five-year-old? I think it's probably one of the biggest concerns of my husband and I. Like, you know, we talk about it the most, like you worry about, I guess, privilege and it's basically not being spoiled. At the moment you realise actually he has no desire for material things, which is great. And so I think more at the moment our conversation is how do we make sure it stays like this, that he isn't attaching to...

things, but it is hard because kids see things that they want and they're always wanting them. And so we're trying to work out how we just don't give him everything he wants. You've probably much more experienced in this and kind of can give me advice in it. You know, what he doesn't like is like mommy going off to work or mum and dad being at work. And so actually explaining to them that the more you kind of buy and spend, the more you have to work and there's kind of a relationship between the two. And actually this year having lots of time together, has been good for that. You know, it's less, you know, it's more about actually just having quality time.

So I feel like, you know, there's been less focus on things. You know, they don't want things ultimately. They just want your presence and your focus. So he doesn't want he to go out to work? No. But not working is not an option. Yeah, yeah. So.

He just works like three days a week. Do you have to work the whole time? At the moment. Hello. It's all right. Oh, you've got food. Oh, you little shit. Not a little.

I think in time that would be ideal. I think at the moment he's at school. I can work when he's at school. I don't feel like I'm compromised in terms of not seeing him. I think it's the intensity of the work outside of his school hours or the travel that's a bit where you would feel. Yeah. I'm very intrigued about what you're, I don't know, very intrigued about you going back into this work will mean. because I just think like you're going back into it with like a very, very heightened sense of awareness.

Yeah. And quite a changed person. So am I. Well, that's why I set down on this binge to just muse for a while. And you're going to be around the same, you know, the same kind of we were around before. I feel like stuff is going to happen. Like it's going to be some kind of, you know, you're going to, there must be some clash there. And that's going to be quite interesting.

It will be. Hopefully, where I'm joining us, it won't be like that. But I think in the wider industry, definitely, I'll naturally be, yeah, like kind of surrounded by a lot of people who just are operating on different frequency. And it works for them, but it's not where I am. And so I think that is going to be the interesting thing is like, how much have I changed that, yeah. Yeah. Do you say you've had surgery or are you about to have it? Yeah, I've had several operations, yeah.

How have they been? Because my cancer was found early and it was very localized. I haven't had to go through chemo and the things which I know more like knock your body around long term. So actually I've seen the fact that they could just surgically, you know, operate, which is essentially meant to double mastectomy as like a positive thing because it's something that actually like, yes, it's removing something, but it's not an organ that I need. So it doesn't impact me kind of long term. And the recovery is about six weeks.

You know, it's not in the scheme of my life, me being knocked around for years and years after having to have like drugs pump through my body and things. So, yeah, even that I felt kind of lucky in a way that that was my, you know, and it never felt traumatic for me. Like, actually, my best friend who is with me when I got diagnosed said my instinct, as soon as the doctor said to me, it's cancer about the lump. I was like, okay, cool, so what do you do? Do we just cut my breasts off? And she was like, that's literally what you said back to her, even though at the point we didn't know what was going to be the past. It's kind of like, you know, that felt like the easiest kind of, you know, thing for me. And so, yeah, so you have to have several surgeries where they kind of remove

and then I have one more surgery where they essentially reconstruct. What, I mean, what's the experience like of going from, you know, having breast and to no breasts? And then obviously, so you haven't had reconstruction yet? No, but what they do is they put, I learned a lot about breast reconstruction. They put these things in called inflators and they slowly over like two months inflate you back up to your normal size so that's where I am now to then be, have proper kind of implants put in so the experience of like not having breasts

I think if I had gone from breast to being completely fit until now it probably felt strange over summer but actually my breasts have never been kind of part of my identity and also when you're in this period of time where you literally think am I going to be here to see my son grow up you're kind of like take a limb to let me like have this life. And so it was a really easy decision in that sense.

And also for me it just felt like once actually it was done and the cancer was gone mentally, the anxiety about could this be growing, could it be spreading, went with it. That's when I felt my mind suddenly went quiet and was like, okay now I can kind of rebuild from here and it's gone and I'm kind of free. Yeah, okay. Yeah, really interesting. So it was just inflate them back up.

I'm just confused at how that works. It is strange. There is like, I can feel valves and they literally will just put a needle in and every few days or weeks they just inject more and more liquid back into you to kind of. And then the funny thing is you start having these conversations as surgeons and they're like, do you want to go to like double D? And I'm like definitely like he said like most women will actually choose to then go up a bit like when they're having reconstruction. For me actually in terms of feeling like myself, I was like no, it's quite important for me that I go back. to being the same size that I was. Yeah, that makes sense.

But I'll answer to a question for you. What's the most beautiful thing you've seen out and about on your walks recently? Oh. I've become really obsessed with light. You know, like, and I think it's going slower and just seeing things that I previously would have been on my phone and walking past and not seeing them. and not seeing them. Recently it's been, you know, like, if I'm swimming or in the ponds or the light or when you see like the light and the water,

like, and just noticing things I hadn't noticed before. But actually when I was walking the other day and it had been raining and I just suddenly saw all of these spiderweeds and the light was coming through them. And it just felt like another reminder to slow down, which is the more I slow down, the more I actually often see. So that would probably be the one that came straight to mind. Oh, that's very nice one. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for talking to me. It's been very interesting. Yeah, no, thanks for stopping. Last question, you can either answer this in a now kind of way or a future kind of way.

However you want to do it, it's up to you or both. What are you going to do next? I'm going to go off, be slow, finishing my walk, and then try and bring that out of the heap into my life as well and just go forward. in a really slow way and just be great well very best a lot to you thanks i used to hate mondays i was moving too far never took notice of the world as it part above the river bed or the light on the silks on the spy I was chasing a piece of without where me land on this earth because we are who we are on this earth we are we are who we are

I don't hate watching trying to find ending a rhythm here in