Strangers on a Bench - EPISODE 74: Tuesday is Green

Episode Date: February 9, 2026

Tom Rosenthal approaches a stranger on a park bench and asks if he can sit down next to them and record their conversation.This is what happened! Produced by Tom RosenthalEdited by Rose De LarrabeitiMixed by Mike WoolleyTheme tune by Tom Rosenthal & Lucy Railton Incidental music by Maddie AshmanEnd song : 'Running into Colour' by LemoncelloStream it here : https://ffm.to/runningintocolourListen to all the end songs featured on the podcast (so far) on one handy playlist :https://ffm.to/soabendsongs————————————————————————————Instagram : @strangersonabench Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello. So it to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench, where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a go? You feeling ready? Yeah. Okay. What's your favourite day of the week? Tuesday. Oh, good answer.

Why? Because it's green. It's green. Yeah. What do you mean? Tuesday's just a green day. Green. Every day has a different colour.

And Tuesday's green? Yeah. So first question is, why is Tuesday green? I don't know. It just always has been. Fantastic. And that it is green. Why is that good?

I like green. What do you like about green? It's just, the lovely colour. It's all around. It's above us now. Yeah. And around us. Yeah. It's beautiful, isn't that. So right. Did you decide that Tuesday was green? No, that's just the way I've always seen it since I was a child. It's not, but you haven't seen it in a book. I have synesthesia. Okay. Tell me what that is. Sinesthesia is where the sense is bleeding to each other. It's like I see days and names and numbers, letters in colour.

So I thought everybody did, but they don't. When did you first discover this? That I had synesthesia. Yeah. About five years ago. So quite recently, what was that moment where you kind of... Oh, somebody put online, I have synesthesia, and I thought, what's that? I don't know what that is, so I looked it up, and it told me what it was.

And I thought, oh my God, I have that as well. What was that moment like to realize that? It's interesting. I mean, it's seen as a disorder, but I don't see it as a disorder. like a superpower, I love it. I mean, how can a disorder mean? Tuesday's green. It's joyous, if anything. Absolutely. Monday's brown, Tuesday's green,

Wednesday's orange, Thursday's blue. Fridays like a silvery color. Saturday's silver, but a different colour to Friday. And Sundays, like a bright orange. Amazing. Can you think of an important event that's happened on this green Tuesday? I was born.

That was a big moment. What do you know about your birth? Normal, I think. Normal? Yeah. Just straight up and down. Yeah. Did you know anything about your birth?

I know that my father... Well, I know that my father called the hospital from the telephone box because we didn't have a phone at the time. And they told him that he had a daughter and he forgot he left his car outside the telephone box and ran up to the hospital. I know that. That's one story I got from then.

Oh, that's sweet. Yeah, it's nice, isn't it? Was that a classic kind of move of your father's, you know? No. I don't think so. He was a bit impulsive, I suppose, but now. Let's go back, you know, if we think about this Tuesday, if you're always your favourite day,

what is your idea of that that Tuesday really well lived, like a really great day on this funny earth thing that we were both on? What time are we going up? Probably about 7.38. And then, you know, shower, get ready, go out for a walk. Somewhere the sun is shining. So you're out walking alone? Yeah.

What's it like to walk alone? It's lovely to walk on your own. You don't have to chat to anybody. You only have to please yourself. So if you want to stop and look at flow as you can. If you want to find a four-leaf clover, you can. And so you never walk with anybody? Oh, sometimes I walk with friends, but usually they're walking on.

I don't, I never ask anybody to go for a walk with me. I'd rather go for a walk on my own. Oh, they just... So I prefer to walk on my own, but I will walk with friends if they're walking. Have you ever met anyone on a walk of significance? You. It's got to be some others. I meet, I chat to people all the time and I'm walking, yeah.

That's one of the things I really like about it. Can you think of a chance meeting that's changed your life? That's changed my life. Yes. I was in Portland, Oregon, and I went to a blues festival, and I met a group of people that were with the band, and they were all sober. And that changed my life. Okay. That was great.

Tell me more. Well, they were all sober. I wasn't at the time. They became friends of mine, and they showed me that you could actually not. drink and still really enjoy life. So that massively changed my life. What was your relationship to alcohol before that time? I drank it. You drank it? Yeah, all the time. So what to what extent? A lot. Yeah. You would call yourself an alcoholic or not or did you acknowledge it at that time? No, I didn't really acknowledge it at that time, but I did realize after being with these people,

because they all told me, our drinking is very similar to our drinking. This was back in the the 90s. And what did they, I mean, how do they convince you? Well, I convinced myself because I continued to get drunk until I realized that this is a problem. And then I got sober.

But it was them that had planted the seed for. Once you were kind of settled into sobriety, what emerged as a result of that that had been kind of suppressed? You? Yeah. Yeah. So what were you trying to suppress, do you think, prior to that?

I don't know, lots and lots of things. You know, life, really. I wasn't very well equipped to deal with life, but I deal with it quite well now, I think. When you say you weren't well equipped, what does that mean? I just probably just wanted to escape reality. Yeah. But what was the reality you wanted to escape?

Dysfunctional family. I'm not prepared for, you know, life. Some people can handle it, and they push through. and other people escaping to alcohol, drugs, work, gambling, but I don't know, it's addiction, so it's not anything that I decided to do. It's just there. I suppose to meet these people then an entire game-changing moment in your life? Yeah, it was a revelation.

What would you say to anybody who might be listening who thinks they have an issue with alcohol and struggles with the concept of stopping? of stopping, what would you say? At first stop would be Alcoholics Anonymous, the website. Read the stories of people who have got sober. Do you remember your first time going South Alcoholics Anonymous? Yes. Do you describe what it was like? I was in San Francisco, and I was traveling with my daughter,

and I was driving a Winnebago van. I had just left Oregon. where I'd met all these people and I knew by that point that I was alcoholic. I realized I needed to get to a meeting because I'd never been to one and then I was in the cafe in Hayt Ashbury and I thought right I'm going to find a meeting so I called a taxi to take me back to my hotel so I could find out from there where the nearest A meeting was and I got into the taxi and it was a woman driver and we struck up a conversation And I said, I think I'm an alcoholic.

I need to get to a meeting. And she said, oh, I've been sober for eight years. You're my last fair. So, you know, I'm going to a meeting straight after this. Do you want to come to that one? I said, yeah. My daughter was with me. She was six years old at the time.

And she took me to a meeting. And it was a women's meeting. And they had a crash. I mean, you couldn't make it up. Someone wanted you to really get sober. So that was my first ever meeting. Amazing. And do you remember how you felt after it?

Well, I felt glad that there were a lot of others like me. There was about 60 women there. Addiction is a mental illness, really. Yeah. And the way that we think is very different from the way that people who don't have addiction think. And when you sit in a room with 60 other people and they all say things that they think and feel

and you think, oh my God, I think that. I feel. Oh, my God. Wow, you know, you know, alone. Do you still attend meetings? Yeah. What's it like to attend meetings now? It's the same as in, you know, I get the same identification.

And, you know, I still go there for myself because it's only one day at a time. I know I'm not going to drink today. But I don't know if I'll drink tomorrow or not. Probably won't. Looking good. What's been the times you've been to drink? closest to drinking again?

Oh, there's been a few times. It's funny because with addiction, the big things you can get through. Relationship breakups, death, losing a job, whatever. But it's the little things that can tip you over the edge. Really? I want. Losing a vape. Yeah, missing an appointment.

But usually that would be on top of something big happening, something big happening. I see. and you'd stay okay. You know how to get through that. But then something small happens. Catch you off guard, you mean? Yeah.

But you've not had that. No, you have to think it through, really. So if anybody's listening that's got any problems with addiction, you don't pick up the first one and then you can't get drunk. You have to think it through to the end. What will happen then? How were you first introduced to alcohol in your life? I come from an Irish family in Wales.

Does it need any more explanation? As in how old were you, how was it presented? Well, on my life. As kids, we'd sneak drinks from our parents, cabinets. What age? Pre-team, definitely. How did alcohol kind of inform your child? What was the impact?

extreme dysfunction. In you or just the whole thing? The whole family. You know, parents not being able to be there for you. Parties, there was lots of parties when I was a kid in the family and they'd all start off very happy and loving each other and then they'd all start singing and they'd get round of pianos and then they'd start crying and then they'd start fighting.

That was the pattern. That's what I thought adult life was. It's quite a pattern. Yeah. At least you got some singing in there. Yeah, they were singing. Yeah, it started off very well. If only everyone just went to bed after the singing,

would have been fine? My family used to hand them all two towels as they'd walk in because you knew they'd all start crying before long. And then they'd start fighting, so they needed them. What did he hand them for the fighting? Just in case there was any blood, I suppose, yeah. When you say fighting, what were we talking? Fistic cups.

Yeah. Big fistic cups. There's a lot of men in the family. And were you present for this fighting or just by then? Yeah. What was it like to kind of see that? Well, I was a little girl. What do you think? Terrified?

Yeah. Did you not want to just run away from it? Yeah. And how did you place yourself in all of this? Or how did you try and like mitigate that? Well, you don't as a child. You just, I mean, when you're little, adults around you have to be God,

because if they're not, you're in trouble. So it's like, just see people, you just see people, behaving that way and you just thought that's how adults behave. So when you get older then you go towards those situations in your life until you learn not to. Did you only, was it getting sober that was at the point where you started to kind of and realize it wasn't normal yes. Do you hold any animosity towards anyone who is? No, no. I mean I don't know.

resentments anymore. I did have. When I first came into recovery, I realized, I didn't think I had, but I did realize I did have a lot of resentments, but I don't. I tend to ask for help. I ask, you know, the universe for help, just to kind of let go of things if they're pissing me off too much. How far in are you able to let it go? A lot of years, a lot of years, a lot of hard work. Doing the 12 steps helps. Was anyone that emerged as a kind of hero in that time? And obviously, you know, no one shining light which kind of helped you. You felt like everyone was kind of against you, if.

So you had no allies at all. Really? In just a massive family, so no one that was kind of looking out for you or anything. That's quite devastating. How have you found being a parent yourself? How have you found that experience? It was difficult, but I also loved it. My daughter's an incredible woman now,

inspired me. She's great. She's 40 now. She's, yeah, incredible. And has your relationship always been pretty solid? Yeah, yeah, very solid. And how about your relationship with Dad? relationship with the dad.

Oh, he's lovely. He's my friend. You know, we split up pretty much after she was born, but we've always been friends. Oh, that's good. Yeah, and he's always been a good dad to love. Fantastic. What's currently bringing you the most joy in your life? Um, really, I mean, friendships, I suppose, people in my life.

I write. What do you write? I'm writing memoirs. of your life. It's been quite interesting over the years. What bid are you on at the moment? I'm not telling you, you'll have to read the book when it comes out.

Can you give me a teaser? No. I'm interested, why do you think, I'm not saying it isn't, why do you think your life has been interesting? Because it's been very unusual. Can you tell me a bit more about what's been unusual about it? No. I've had enough now.

Oh, you sure? Yeah. I want to hear about what's been unusual, though. Well, all of it, really. All of it. Make someone, it's all fun, you know. The baby seemed to film about me. Oh, really?

When I was young, yeah. I ran away from home when I was 14. You ran away from home when you were 14? Yeah. I just told you about family. So didn't you feel like running away from that? So you got it. Yeah.

Tell me about what that was like, 14. 14. Full runaway, is in no one knew? Yeah. Yeah, I left Wales and came to London. Can you talk me through that day? It was pocket money day, 50pence. I bought a 10-pence ticket for the train

because I knew I couldn't hitche because people would see me. So I went to Nefer and I hitcheck. from there to London. Who picked you up? That got lots of different. It was men. Do you remember what a 14-year-old you was like?

Yeah. Who were you at that time? I've always been quite creative and very imaginative, and I kind of planned everything out how it was going to be, and of course it was nothing like that when I got to London. What had you imagined? When you grow up in a small town in Wales, you hear, oh, the streets of London are paved with gold,

and I just thought I was going to meet people, people were going to be decent to each other, people were going to be honest. I'd experienced violence within the family, but I'd never kind of seen it like I saw it when I came up here because I arrived and I went to Piccadilly. And there was a lot of other young runaways there. That's kind of where I spent most of my teenage years.

So I grew up in London, really, from 14 to about about. about 1920 and then I went off to Israel to live on the kibbutz where I'm not Jewish I just went because there's a free holiday I might go pick oranges on the kibbutz okay so let's let's do a little rewind so you land in kukitl how did you find well no what first thing I did was I found the Samaritans when I got to London and I told them I was 17 and I'd been brought up in an orphanage and I... Oh wow, you just totally like. Yeah, completely.

My age. What was the thinking? Well, that if I told them I had no family, that they would help me. Clever? I didn't know. Did it work? Yeah, they put me in a hostel. Oh, well done.

Clever of you? Yeah, I was a very clever kid. And so you end up in a hostel in Piccadilly? No, in Malibon. Oh, in Marlibon? Yeah, but I went down to Piccadillo. Oh, I see. And that's where you met other runaways?

And what was that community like? I mean, that... Young. There was a place called Centrepoint on Sharsbury Avenue and it was like a Doss House. Centrepoint is still running. I support Centrepoint now.

I give them every month. That's just a way of giving back to them because they helped me when I first came here. And it was just like a place where you get a bed for the night. We all used to wait outside the gates and they'd open the gates and we'd go in and go downstairs. And it was just like a, you know, bunk beds.

Lots of bunk beds downstairs. They could be a hot meal and that. And then there was a place in the West End called Soho Project. And so in the morning you'd get kicked out at 8 o'clock. And we'd come out of there and then go up to the Soho Project and they'd give you kind of advice and, you know, stuff like that. I had a book called Alternative London, which was around at that time.

And that gave you a lot of things where you could get, you know, free things. And there was a place in the West End, the oasis. It's still there. But it used to be a bathhouse. But you could go in there and you could get a bath and they'd give you a towel and that and it used to cost about 20 pence.

How long were you living in this wet? Just really when I first came up. Then I got a job in a hotel as a chambermaid, I got myself some false insurance cards. I can't remember how I found out about it, but I was sent to this place called Gals, Girls Alone in London Service, which was in Houston. The lady there said to me,

well, you have to get some insurance cards if you want a job. I mean, she didn't know my age, because I told everybody at that point I was 17. So I went off to get some insurance cards and I lied about my name, I lied about my age, my age and they gave me a set of insurance cards and I dyed my hair black and blonde wore fake tan on my skin told people that I was mixed race wow how a lot of people believe me is this so why did you do this because I wanted to be as different as I possibly could from who I actually was okay

in order that I wouldn't get caught by the police and taken home see did you ever feel close to that happening? I was working in one hotel in the West End, my first ever job. And the reason I got a job as a chambermaid was because I could live in the hotel. And I just had to clean the rooms. I wasn't very good at it. It was absolutely crap as a chambermaid. I mean, I was only 14. But everyone thought you were 17. Yeah. Did anybody know that you were 14? No. So literally just keeping that to yourself the whole time. Do you think you started convincing yourself you 17 or do you always know you before? Do you do I mean?

Well, I always thought I was an adult anyway, you know, because I had to grow up very quick at home. I mean, I wasn't. I was a little girl, I know that now, but I didn't know that then. I thought I was an adult. Did you ever get a chance to be that little girl again? No.

Never. Is it ever too late? Obviously you can't, but you know. I'm just starting trauma therapy now to deal with all that. stuff from that then. I'm going to be a pensioner in August and that's now is when I'm ready to do the trauma work. So maybe I could be a little girl again when I'm a pensioner. Maybe I'll come skipping around here picking days. Okay so you got your fake insurance cards. Yeah and I got a job in a hotel as a chambermaid and which you were terrible at, which I was

really really bad at. Any any any any happy moments in the hotel? Well I'm 40. I'm I was absolutely blown away by the fact that I had a room in a London hotel. And it was beautiful, and there were red velvet curtains. It was a really old style hotel. But I left that hotel because there was a guy there, and he was trying to get hold of me, and I just wanted to get away from him. So I left that hotel, and I went back down the West End.

But then I found out that my father's friend, who had a surname, the surname that I was using, had gone to the hotel because my brother was a police inspector. So your brother, my brother, my eldest brother. Your husband was a police inspector? In London. Oh, that's complicated.

Yeah. Was he trying to find you? Yeah. So I'm getting... Well, everybody was trying to find him. Oh, okay. Yeah. And he had found out somehow that I was working at this hotel

and they told my parents. And they found out the name that I was using. But I had already left by then. I'd gone over to Victoria and I was working at a golden egg restaurant. Gave me a job as a coffee girl in there. And somehow my brother had found out that I was in the Victoria area. And there was a body found in Victoria Station, a young girl about my age. And my mother thought it was me.

And it was quite terrifying for her. I didn't know about that at the time. I found all this so much later. So she genuinely thought it was, I mean, she thought it was me at first. She just didn't know where it was. So everyone was trying to find you. Surely someone must have. No.

No one found you. First time I went home after three months. I went home on Mother's Day because I thought my mother was going to die because it was a big guilt thing in my family. You know, it was like, what are you doing to your mother? Oh, okay. All that kind of stuff. Oh, hang on.

So after you run away, You went home. I went home, but that's when the BBC made a film about me, but then I left again just after the film was completed. And then I never went out. Okay, so... See, the difficulty in writing memoirs? I can see.

It's everywhere, isn't it? Yeah. Okay, why did the BBC make a film about you? Because my father had seen an ad in a newspaper. I think it was a national newspaper saying, Runaway teenagers in London, please contact this number. And he took it to the police station and he said, my daughter's run away, she's in London.

And I want to know who this person is who's asking for teenagers to get in touch and it turned out to be a BBC producer who then phoned my father and said, do you think I make a film? And my father said, well, if you can find, are you going to ask her? But I went home just after that.

I didn't know about that. And my father told me about it. And then the producer called me the next day and asked me if I wanted to make a film. And I was 14 and said, yes. Yeah, good. So you ran away with it. My hair went orange because my auntie was a hairdress

and she tried to get it back to blonde and it went bright orange because I died of black. So I had orange hair. Going back on Mother's Day to seal them up, what do you remember of that day? I just went home and I knocked the door and my mother answered the door and she just said, Oh, Lord, she just put her arm's on me and my father came out, he was in the house as well and they, you know, they were just glad to have me home. And they tried to be a lot more understanding after that, you know, in the beginning, but then it quickly reverted back to the way it was.

How long do you hang around for? Well, it took about three weeks to make the film. And I think I left about two weeks after the film was completed. And then that was it? Well, I went home. You know, once I turned 16 and they couldn't keep me there anymore. I could go home for like a month at a time or a week at a time or whatever. See the family and then I'd leave again.

Yeah. You didn't abad them completely? No, I mean, I'm still in touch with some members of my family. There's none of the older generation left. No. My cousins are around. Both my brothers are. One has Alzheimer's and the other is in a home

because he drank himself into a brain bleed. Oh, God. What was it like as your parents got older? Was anything reconciled at all? They didn't get older. My mother died when she was 53. I was 17 and I thought I'd killed her and my whole family believed that as well.

So you thought you had killed it by running away? By being the way I was. I see. There was no therapy at that time. There was no understanding of what a child had gone through or anything like that. It was all kind of you were just a bad seed. And you believed that? Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, I believed it tilled well into my adulthood. What did that do to you? Well, what do you think? It was horrible. I thought it killed my mother. My whole family agreed with that. But they... put that on you or did you I mean they put that on me I put it on myself but they put it on me as well

that's insane isn't it I still deal with that now like in the 12-step program we have one of the steps is making amends to people and I couldn't make amends to my mother you know she's the biggest one because my mother was lovely she was very gentle she cried all the time my father was a nightmare he was a narcissist and very very violent And my two brothers were both violent as well, and bullies, much older than me. There's a lot of abuse and stuff. Did your mother die suddenly?

Yeah. Heart to death. So she died of a broken heart according to the family. Oh. It's like a therapy session, isn't it? It's always a bit. But, wow, it's so brutal. It's so brutal.

And how long after that did it dawn on you that actually, you know, hang on. I didn't actually kill my mother. I actually, it was when I was about 30, 30-31, that I was in Egypt. And I'd gone on it and a healing tour. And the guy that was leading the tour was a very, very brilliant man, brilliant healer. And, you know, he spoke to me in depth about stuff. And he said, you know, you didn't kill your mother. You didn't do it.

And that was the first time anybody had told me that I didn't do it. What about that? He died in 2003. But he, after my mother died, he moved in with his, with a woman he'd been having an affair with for, you know, 15 years, 16 years while my mother was alive. He moved in with her within three months. They'd had an affair for 15 years? My mother knew about it. Oh, I see.

The whole family knew about it. Oh, okay. They were caught quite early on because the woman's husband had gone up to my house and told my mother, I mean, I was three when they met. And then he went away and married her. Ran away to Gretna Green. Classic.

Yeah, I mean, you couldn't make these things up, which was good. When he died, did you get a chance to say anything to do he die suddenly as well? He had cancer, he was dying, but I kind of ran away again from I was still drinking when he died. Because the first time I got sober was in 1990. And then I was in and out for a few years. And then I got a few years sober. I'm doing an a-a-share here.

And then I relapsed for 10 years. But now I've been sober for 20 years. Amazing, amazing, given all you've endured. So you didn't get a chart, so you... I ran away. You let your dad die, basically. Well, I was there. I'd gone back with a guy that I'd been with years ago

when my daughter was a baby, when I'd left the father and I'd gone back to Wales. Met up with a guy that I'd been in school with. And he turned out to be really violent. and I couldn't leave him in the beginning because my daughter was a ward of court because of my addictions. Oh, sugar. Because it wasn't just alcohol. This is getting too deep for me. I can't do it anymore. I can't because it's, you know, I'm just starting this trauma therapy and I can't go any further with this right now. I'll do some lightness. Have I seen some light things? Yeah, if you want, well.

Obviously that's a lot of heavy things But there's also all of your Well I got into healing Yeah, kind of So you go into Egypt? Why are you going to Egypt? Why are you going? Oh actually so kibbutz No, that was Israel That was in 1979

And he did that because Because I wanted a free holiday And I could pick oranges I went there with a girlfriend She suggested that she was an artist I knew nothing about Israel knew nothing about the conflict over there and knew nothing about Palestine. I was 19 and I'd been a runaway, you know.

But I went over with my friend that she was lovely. And we went and we stayed on the kibbutz and we were working in the orange groves. They give you a little hut to live in and you had free cigarettes, free beer and 30 pound a month pocket money. And then I met a French girl there and her and I left that kibbutz and went down to another one and we ended up in kibbutz rain,

which was the one where the festival was that was attacked. But it started the whole thing in Gaza. And it was in between Gaza and Vyersheba. Yeah. And Vyashiva was really modern and, you know, like it could have been anywhere, like New York, Paris, London. Gaza.

It was like stepping back into the Middle Ages, but the people were lovely. I went to Gaza and they didn't want me, the people on the kibbutz didn't want me to go to Gaza. They said, you know, you can't go to Gaza on your own. Yeah. You know, so a group of girls went. We took one guy with us, a token guy with us,

French guy, just went in for the day, but it was really, it was like a rubble town then. You know, this was in 1979. It wasn't like it is now, obviously. You know, and what's happening in Gaza? it absolutely breaks my heart. You know, it broke my heart when Reim got attacked

because I lived there, but looking at what Israel have done there is just, it's beyond belief, it's heartbreaking. What they're doing. Is their behaving, like, the way they were treated? That's my opinion of it.

To what extent is your time there? Well, I was there for me. I was there for a year. I was there for a year. I love the people that I knew on the kibbutz, the Israeli people. There were a lot of gharine there, which is the women's army, that were on the kibbutz as well. So I met a lot of people, made some really lovely friends there.

They are beautiful people. They're not the government. What the government are doing, what the IDF is doing, is awful. awful and I can't you know even though I loved the people that I knew back in 1979 on the kivots it was my first time really abroad living abroad you know I can't agree with what they're doing there do you think the world is as bad as it's ever been I think it's hitting rock bottom like when you deal with addiction you have to hit a rock bottom before you can get back up again they've all got to go

to AA yeah Exactly. Yeah. I was listening to the words of that Bob Dylan song, you know, about the masters of war, you know, and go and stand on their grave until he's sure that they're dead, you know, yeah. It's like I don't understand humanity anymore. I really don't, you know. But I think it's a rock bottom that society is hitting.

And I think the governments are so out of control now, the corruption is in your feet. corruption is in your faces. So people are waking up because they have to. They're not even hiding it anymore. They're just shoving it in people's faces. This is what we're doing. We are corrupt. Fuck you. What are you going to do about it?

Yeah, exactly. I mean, if it's any consolation, having spoken to so many people now, I've got no fear at all for the people that have just on benches. I mean is in, you know, humanity is, Humanity itself is fine. It maybe has always been fine. The problem is, it's the people who make the decisions.

It's the few lunatics that are in control. They've got everybody by the Short and Curlies, aren't they? Because it's kind of, everybody wants to keep their little bit of what they've got. Everybody's afraid of losing that. I mean, homelessness, and we see it every day. We see it on this road. You walk up Tottenham Court Road.

You see Tent City on Tottenham Court Road. We see every day what can happen. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, and I think conspiracy theorism is just bullshit. It's something that was just put on people so that we wouldn't look any deeper. But you see what can happen if you don't conform. And so everyone's bloody terrified. There always has to be, I mean... Yeah, but it's getting to an extreme point, right?

And as soon as one drops, another one comes, you know, and in that sense you can kind of tell, you know, Fear helps economies, you know? Yeah. I mean, like, it, like... Keep everybody in fear. Then you can control them, isn't it? It's really useful.

Yeah. Can I ask about Egypt? Yeah. What do you want to ask? What happened in Egypt? Apart from your healing journey began. Oh, it's amazing. Egypt is incredible.

Why did you go to Egypt then? Because I wanted to. Can I ask, actually, I'm getting to see a theme now. You know, you ran away at 14. I've did a lot of geographicals in my life. I went to a lot of places. I mean, how long was that mindset in you of just keeping going, going, going from face to base before you stop? Well, I mean, I still travel now.

I love to try. If I had the choice and money was no object and there was nothing at all to fear, I would travel nonstop. I wouldn't live anywhere. Do you like living somewhere? Has there been a pain? Where I live now is the longest I've lived anywhere since I left home. So you do feel kind of settled? Well, yeah, I've been there 12 years, the place I'm in now.

You live alone? Yeah. How's that? I like it. It's life has put you off other people. I did get into like a toxic kind of situation with somebody last year, but it was very intense, very toxic. It lasted a couple of months and was very painful.

I decided, no, I'm not going to do that again. What have you learnt about men in your life? About men? Yeah. Well, I mean, most of my trauma came from men, to be honest. I was a 14-year-old on my own in London, so you can imagine what I have. You know, for me, growing up, men were violent. Men were scary.

They were loud. I do have some very, very good male friends. as long as they stay friends. That's kind of what I feel about men a lot of the time. Yeah. Can I ask who's been, who is the greatest love of your life? Do you know who that would be if I ask you that question? I don't think I've ever really loved anybody.

I think there's a couple of people in my life I've ever really loved. One was my mother, one is my daughter. And the only other person I think I've ever really truly loved was my auntie. I've been in what I thought was love. And I did have one partner that was very violent and beat me up and I left him after a year. And then he stalked me for about 16 years. Found me wherever I was.

16 years? 16 years, yeah. He'd find me. I was staying in a hotel in London and he turned up. The door knock and I said, who is it? And he said, room service. And I opened the door and it was him. He stood down.

He would just find me wherever it was. And he was a lunatic, you know? 16 years? 16 years. Of that? Yeah. Not all the day. It wasn't constant in that time,

but it was like he would just turn up. I wouldn't say for months. But it is a kind of concert in a sense that if you said someone could turn up at any time, then it's a constant worry, surely. Yeah, yeah. And he was frightening. He was very frightened.

How did it stop? Well, I disappeared basically. He didn't know where I was. He doesn't know where I live now. He turned up. I went back to Wales a couple of years ago and he turned up at my uncle's funeral. I hadn't seen him.

I haven't seen him for about probably 20 years. And when he encountered, what did he say? Well, he tried to speak to me and I just said hello to him to be polite, but I ignored him for the rest of the time. And then he found my number from somebody and he sent me a bunch of abusive texts. And that's when I found out that I had PTSD.

My daughter was sitting there with me. And I was trying to reply to him to tell him to leave me alone and I was shaking. And she looked at me and she said, man, that's PTSD. You want to go see the doctor? This was a few years. ago and I went to see the doctor and this is why I'm starting trauma therapy now I've been waiting three years because that's the state of the mental health situation

with the energy so PTSD but it's C PTSD so it's it's complex PTSD it comes from early on and it's just something that builds up through your life I didn't know what these feelings were you know if I got any slight disapproval from anybody these feelings would come up that were and I'd have these flashbacks all the time. I didn't know what. I thought PTSD was something that happened to people who'd witnessed bombs and things like that, not people like me.

But apparently that's what I've got. Right. You've been through a lot. Yeah. I'm still here though. You are still here. I mean, if it's not too weird to me saying, you seem very healthy and full of life.

I know, I'm a walking bloody mirror. miracle. Exactly. Yeah. You know, you have a kind of natural blow, you know, in you. That hasn't been, that hasn't been dulled. That's what I find amazing. I'm just starting to like myself, I realized, you know, when I started this journey of therapy

and I realized that through everything, I never got bitter, you know. I've been sad, I'm sad about it. But I've been angry about it, but I've been angry with myself more than anything yet. for putting myself in those situations and then I realised I didn't actually put myself in those situations. You were just running from the stuff. Yeah.

And I'm actually starting to think, do you know what? I am alright. I am an all right person and recovery is helping for that, yeah. What would you like the rest of your life to look like? Calm. You deserve it. Just living and healing and seeing the world and seeing the world. world healed, bearing witness to the healing of the planet. I don't mean the planet because

she'll heal anyway, she's fine. It's us. We need to heal. We've always been the problem. What has there left to ask you? Is there anything I missed? It's any really important thing that I've missed? I don't even want to go then. You don't want to go? I always find that a person nature there will always be these things, especially when I talked about someone a life like yours. I've talked to one other runaway. So you're not a runaway virgin? I'm not a runaway virgin, exactly.

But when she left the conversation and she's about to walk off, I tied all this kit away, turned off all the microphones, put it in my bag, and she turns around to me and she says, next time I see you,

I'll have to tell you about the time that I was a bank robber. A bank robber? Right? I can't get this stuff out quick enough. I think she had an appointment anyway. And she had gone. And I was like, I can't believe that I had a bank robber on the bench.

And I didn't get a chance to talk about it. But now you're here. I'm not a bank robber. But have you got a bank robber thing that I would be devastated to not have asked you about? Do you see what I mean? Have you got nothing, no equivalent? No equivalent.

Being a bank robber, no. That's good. So I can leave here in peace knowing that I haven't missed a huge thing. Oh, you've missed loads, but you know. I've never been a bank robber. I don't know why I've even talked this much to a complete stranger. You have a definite skill, darling. Really.

Yeah. Got with that intuition, it's a good thing. good intuition. Well that's what I'm literally doing. Yeah. There's some people have really bright lights in them. Maybe this is a bit woo-woo, but I'd like to think that, you know, those who have bright lights, you know, the hardships they've endured has forced that light more to the surface. Well, it's the same, isn't it?

Religion is for people who want to go to heaven. And spirituality is for people who've been to hell and back. Mm, that makes sense. Do you want to help? hear other people. Yeah. Well, that's what I work with now. I mean, I do a lot of healing work. I was in Ibiza doing a sound healing course. I work in that field. I've been working in that field for many years. When you hear sounds, do you see colours? Is that how it works? No, I don't actually see sound in colour. I don't think I do anyway. I mean, I see a lot of stuff,

you know, like I do a lot of gong bats. I don't play the gong myself. Surely anyone can play a gong. Anyone can play a, well anyone can bang a gong. How does a gong bath work? You never had a gong bath? No. Oh my God, you've got to try it. It's the best, honestly, you just lie down. It's like a meditation really, but you've got somebody there who's playing the gong and the crystal bowls and things.

So you have these sounds and sounds are very powerful. That's when music is so powerful. I mean, nothing makes people move their bodies in strange ways. apart from music, right? So music, sound, sound is very, very powerful, it's a powerful healer. I mean, you can get some amazing sounds from the gong, whale sounds and everything's beautiful.

The vibration of the gong, it just does something, I don't know the science of it, but I know that it works. It takes you off to another dimension entirely. And it's incredibly healing. I was in Egypt, last, last year, last year and we sailed down the Nile having gone baths.

It's incredible. Healing. Amazing. Healing, that's the thing. I feel that we're all born with a set of lessons to learn and we're here to bear witness to the rest of it, to the healing.

What's the lesson you're most keen to learn that you haven't yet learned? That we're all one, really. To really know that. Because I know it intellectually. We're all one big universal family. Let's start helping each other instead of hating each other. Pretty simple really in many ways.

Because we live on a paradise. We have a paradise to live on. And we're just really fucking it up and each other. Yeah. All right? You're done? I'll be with that. Can I just one more thing?

Because they always end are the same question. What are you going to do next? walk home. Thank you so much for talking to me. You're very welcome. Completely fascinating. That's all right. I know parts you weren't super keen to carry on different ways.

It's been interesting. I'm really glad you to it. It's been stress-inducing in parts. I hope not too much. That's all right. Well, thank you for following your intuition. Thank you for following yours.