Strangers on a Bench - EPISODE 75: Donna

Episode Date: February 16, 2026

Tom Rosenthal approaches a stranger on a park bench and asks if he can sit down next to them and record their conversation.This is what happened! Produced by Tom RosenthalEdited by Rose De LarrabeitiMixed by Mike WoolleyTheme tune by Tom Rosenthal & Lucy Railton Incidental music by Maddie AshmanEnd song : 'Donna' by Father of FredStream it here : https://ffm.to/donna-soabListen to all the end songs featured on the podcast (so far) on one handy playlist :https://ffm.to/soabendsongs————————————————————————————Instagram : @strangersonabench Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello. So it to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench, where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a go? Is there a day of the week that you favour? Got to be Friday. It comes with trepidation for me.

Look forward to it at its end of the week. But I lost my wife three years ago, so it's hard. Weekends. So it's, hence why I'm sitting in there, I'm trying to keep himself occupied. Well, I can keep you occupied for a bit. Yeah, do it. Can I ask why weekend set you off? Too much time on my hands.

Yesterday I met a mate and went out riding for five hours, and then I haven't seen anyone today. I got dinner at my parents at six, but I'm probably going to bail. So you were riding yes did you say? Yeah, yeah, yeah, just for me a bike. A bike with a motor? No, no, no, push bike. We're just, I don't know, 40 mile,

cold beer in the garden, finish, and off you go. Wonderful. Yeah, it's nice. So today's sort of, what I'm what we're gonna do? So, fled the cat and the tortoise. Did he say tortoise? Yeah. Just casually chuck there in there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I got the cat with the tortoise. Rico, Rico's the tortoise. My brother-in-law found him, walking up a street, middle of countryside nowhere years ago. Yeah. And then my brother went to France and said to me, my wife, John's tortoise. It was called Henry, but we named him Rico,

because it sounds quicker. They're insanely intelligent. Come out and give him a click and he led up, he's gone. How you click for Rico? I click and Rico looks up and comes over. Happy tortoises, there's a climbing tortoise. So I've got a little obstacle course in the garden and,

yeah, he loves it. So you've got a big old... I've got a massive garden. You've got a bouldering, set up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. like Alex Honnold you know free solo he does his own thing but if we dug out from work make sure he's not upside down because sometimes he lands and can't turn himself back over he's good he's got right last summer my cat had a big chunk out of his tail because

since the cat lays down the tortoises climbs all over the tortoise climbs on the cat oh just could get on this is there this is the first i've ever heard about a kind of cat tortoise dynamic yeah is there any affection there for either side yeah because i caught them today having a little cuddle. You can say in the shade. You know, when they see me they're all fighting and stuff, but Mooncats just laying there and Rico's just snuggled in and... Genuinely?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's... That's brilliant. I flamowed the grass last week and they're fearless. Just comes bombarding towards the flimaux and... The tortoise? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're not fearful of anything. Is that because they can live so long? Yeah, they're perfect specimen. How long they'd be on the planet? A million years and they just, they've reached their maximum.

I don't need to evolve anymore. Do they lift to like 150? or something. The oldest one is, I think it's 189 or something like that. Crazy. I think it was born the same year as Queen Victoria or something like that. Oh, wow. Yeah, isn't that? And there was one I saw last week. I'm a bit of, you know, tortoise thing.

You look up online, it just pops up on your news feed. And there's one I saw the other day that this tortoise is a male tortoise, 159 years. I just had a baby, so they know they realized he's not a male. So it's like... They can breed at 159? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. That's birth baby.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got a bit used to life. Yeah, that's it. They're like students. Yeah, yeah. They're like, I said to them, they're the perfect pet because they're up for six months a year, then they go to sleep.

You know, I put him to bed at, I was put him on October 21st, that's my wife's birthday, so I put him to bed then and get him up in about the middle of April. Sleeps in the wine box in the shed. Okay, let's rewind a minute. You put him to bed.

Yeah. How do you decide today's the day? Because he slows up, yeah, they don't eat for a while. Okay. And all they do is drink, they take fluid on. And then they empty themselves out so they don't, you know. And then you weigh them and you measure them.

And then you should do that once a month, I think, just to make sure they're not dehydrating whilst they're hibernating, if they do take them to a vet. And then they just slow up and you think, yeah, now's the time. You just got to think, don't seem you move much, yeah. And then how do you know when the rising happens? Because I can hear him moving around. So I go in the shed and you can hear him banging about.

I have to have, like, dumbbell weights on top of the box because they'll push out. So when you kind of go in there, you're a bit of banging, you think, yeah, time to come up. And then he'll come out and... Does he get a special treat, you know, when he's released?

You know, is it a kind of big moment? Well, yeah, it's straight in the water, really. I've got a little... It's like a lid of a container, you know, like you'd have your... you put books into storage or something. One of them, for it with water and it's like a little swimming pool.

So I put him in there and, yeah, drinks that up and they can drink through their anus. Whoa. Okay. It might, yeah. Wow. So I've been told. I've tried it, it doesn't work. But yeah, they do that.

Yeah, then it's just like, crack on. Can you describe the joy that the tortoise brings you? It's a link to my... I lost my wife, say, three years ago this year, and it's sort of a link to her as well. What does she think of the tortoise? Loved it. Because sit in the garden and just, it's just hours of fun.

Everyone that comes around is like, oh my God, I didn't know a tortoise was like that. They're, no, they're just, do you think, I'll be long gone, be not even halfway through his life. Dylan is youth, Dylan's Prime. You mentioned October 21st in relation to your wife. That's my wife's birthday.

How did you choose to mark that day since she's died? You know, when she first passed, every opportunity I had or anniversary, I'd go to the next bay long because we got married just 50 metres from the beach and have a little place there. And I'd chuck a rose in the water and I'd see it go and it would break my heart.

So I thought, why am I doing that for? My wife would be like, you're an idiot. What are you doing? You know, she died in September, and her 47th birthday was a matter of a month after. So I was doing all the wedding anniversary, the birthday, Christmas, going down there and doing it,

getting up at five in the morning and blah, blah, blah. And then thinking, it's just killing me. It's just so tough. So now I just, I don't know, appreciate her in other ways. I'm understanding grief a bit more that I can still smile, I can still laugh and not feel guilty, but that's taking me a while to realise.

And I still get caught as you saw at the beginning, you know. It's, it's, yeah, it's horrendous. When you say you feel guilty, what do you mind? Of laughing, enjoying life. Should I be mourning? Should I just be saffed? But Donna would be like, what are you doing? Surely she wanted you to be as happy as possible? The more laughter the better.

Absolutely. But it's hard. Everyone gives great advice, but not many people lost their wives. Yeah. And oh, time's a great healer. Yeah, fuck off. Do you mind if I ask a few questions about her? Yes, again. Love to.

What is she like? Amazing. It's lovely. Just lovely. Like, yeah, just the nicest person. Just first person I ever loved. Together 25 years. give me freedom to do as well what I wanted to or needed to.

I did karate and I travelled the world doing that. I did some places and I got a job in Australia and she said, yeah, I'll come over and see how that goes. And then towards the end she was diabetic and she had to go septuess, that's what killed her. She had her legs amputated. She just kept going. Yeah.

Insuriparational. And just a massive loss, you know. That's why I'm here now. I'm trying to keep myself hockey bikes. I'm trying to draw. And there's crap. Crap drawing. Crap drawing.

When my wife died, I used to come down there walking in the winter and smoke a cigar. Never smoke cigars. Oh really? You just started that after she died? Because I could. Just do anything. It's disgusting.

Oh, it's disgusting. Is there a sense that when someone so close to you die, And it's so obviously, you know, devastating and everything. Is there a sense that you're like, fuck it out, I'm just going to just do anything? Yeah. I did cry for 35 years. Had a club in town. Classes four days a week.

My life. And stop now. Don't do it. Really? Because that's for everyone else. I need time for me now. And it was also very much my take a breath escape. If I'm doing that, I'm not thinking of hospital and dialysis and whatever.

So it's sort of, yeah, it does give you that freedom to do. I never went home for eight years, nine years, straight from work to either dialysis or straight to karate. So coming home and sit in the garden at six o'clock is like, wow, this is what people do. It's just there, you know, it's kind of nice to do nothing. It's a skill. But it's kind of nice to do that,

but you said earlier that it can cause it pain to not fill your time. So how do you balance that out? It's nice to do nothing sometimes, But at the same time, that's why I'm out now. You know, I'm sort of just trying to fill the time until 6 o'clock and I go for dinner. I even went to work today, the clean swimming pool, just to sort of keep yourself busy, you know. And because your mind just, you know, and going out's difficult because, look, everyone's with their wives and girlfriends and kids. We didn't have children.

Oh, yeah, everyone's rubbing my nose, isn't it? But they're not. I know they're not, you know. Yeah. Do you think about it every time you see someone? I think about it every minute. Really? Yes, it's all consuming for me.

You know, and it is a friend of mine, his wife died, and two months after Donna. And he's dating and everything and da-da-da. Me, you know, I still got my wife's wedding ring on. I had our bands put together. I'm still in love. Of course. What do people say to you about that?

I mean, do people encourage you to date again? No, not really. No, they haven't. Some like my people I work for a wealthy Russian family and the kids are six children. I've been there like 11 years. You know, youngest is now 19 so they've been with me for years. Does he work with a Russian family? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's intriguing. But what did you do, so what do you do with this Russian family? Karate. Everything. No, I run their estate. Oh, I see. Driver and PA and like today I check on the swimming pool, make for that's tidy for them and they get home tomorrow and whatever. So it's, um, the girls are like, you know, you'd get out there, get dating and Donna would love it and blah blah blah, blah.

But it's sort of, yeah, when I'm ready, you know, no rush. What would you do together? You know, what small things did you do together which you go back to? I would just try and make her laugh all the time. What was your hit rate? Very good. And the thing is I've got loads of videos of it. It's even better, you know.

Do you watch them still? Yeah, yeah, I do. because I hear a voice, you know, and all of that, and that's lovely. But particularly when Don lost the legs, you know, you're limited to what you can do, so the simple things are great. We go for a nice drive. Go down these lovely lanes and, you know, and just, right, we get to a junction. Donner would choose that if we go left, right or over, next junction I choose,

and we just go anywhere. It's just me and her and me, and beauty of just doing nothing. It's lovely. Let's do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go where we go. Yeah, yeah. Can I ask about her?

She had diabetes? She's diabetic, yeah. She got diabetes when she was 10. So type 1? Type 1, yeah. And she just struggled with it? It wasn't particularly medically well looked after. You know, 30 years, 35 years ago, diabetic care is so very different from now.

Yeah. She was 10? She was 10 when she got it, yeah. That's really tough. And at that age, you want to be like everyone else. You know, I want to go out, I want to eat. You know, when you're a teenager and your alcohol comes into your life and you're going out clubbing and drinking. It's like, I want to do that.

You can't. You don't you die diabetic. I'm not saying she abused herself in that way, but it's a balance, you know. Education wasn't there for it. Yeah. You know who else has type 1 diabetes? Who? Have you? Don't let me scare you.

Don't worry. It's okay. But you're doing all right with it? Fine, yeah. Good. I've got blood sugars on my wrist. And you're so much more aware of what's, of everything. And honestly, it's so brutal timing of things. But as I said also, you could say, you know, if it was 100 years ago,

then myself and your wife would just die within them up. So it's like, you know, it's kind of, it's all comparative, I suppose. Yeah, absolutely, of course it is. I had a friend in New Zealand and they said to me that they was talking to it, there isn't a Maori chief. and they said that in Maori culture they said you have 12 lives and Donnas

used one of them and a part of her life was to meet me to get to the age of 46 but she needed me to be in her life to get to that point and it's like I'm not religious but I have a little bit of a bit of woo-woo now quite like it yeah I like it you know I believe that

I see her again and again someone said you're going from A to B but you've just taken a different route and you'll meet your B at another time it's like yeah like that you know go the wide way around yeah you know and i i because she died in my arm you know they said we're gonna turn life support off for about 20 minutes i was right done something her heart's strong as an ox so so they did that and we're all in the embrace position me my parents and my mother-in-law in 10 minutes 20 minutes hour hour and a half back say give me dad needs a week you know and the nurse come yeah everyone relax she ain't going nowhere you know and she

lasted 12 hours and I had the last sort of three hours I was on my own and it was and it was the most horrendous thing but the most beautiful you know and uh what did you tell her oh everything everything just like it just made my life you know and yeah just just little we used have little nicknames of each other and i'd say them again and whatever but i asked her to haunt me and uh friend of mine went oh my god what did you do that for she's going to I just, you know, torment you because that was her character. I've had some crazy things go on. Big emotional days, big cracks of energy.

She's never met my grandfather, and I said, you'll meet my granddad. He'll absolutely adore you. And I said, he used to like to dance. Donner used to like to dance. And I say, you'll meet him. I know you've met him because I'll hear a crack of thunder. And on Donna's memory of my parents' life,

that next day after Don passed, I'm in the front room. and a nice day and there's just this almighty crack of thunder happened just one massive rumbled on and you found it good you're there

and relax you know it's nuts man some people just like that of bollocks but you hold onto things because it eases you are you know I mean I don't think it's loaded bollocks no good thank you

but it's nice it's very comforting yeah completely Who's to say what anything is? No, that's right. If you feel it, you feel it. Yeah, I think that's what faith is, isn't it? And religion and all that. My people, I work for, Russian Orthodox, I'm very religious.

And the kids would say to me, how is it you're so nice that you don't believe in God? You know, when they were younger, I'm good parents, you know, right from wrong. If you don't believe in heaven and hell, it's, you do the right thing because it's just nice, you know. What do you think that people who haven't been through what you've been through are kind of not aware of? What do you think is invisible about what you've been? Utter loss and the thing that you can just, come on, take a deep breath, come on, come on. I had a guy, he was a friend, ain't no more. I've lost a lot of friends.

Really? A hell of a lot. Really? Yeah. A lot? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because people don't know how to deal with it or they weren't your friends in the first place. You just, you know.

My oldest friends are being spot on. It's the new or within the last 20 years. And it hurts because you think, oh, right, okay. Is it that they just switch off? They just don't contact you. What do they do wrong? Don't contact you. And then if you don't contact them back,

because you're crying, you're depressed. You don't want to pick the phone up. It's take it personally. I got invited out for dinner many times, but I found it difficult going out for dinner with opposite a friend and a partner and then me with an empty chair next to me. The empty chairs,

because, oh yeah, I'm only in because Don's like it, you know, but they don't get it. I've even thought about I write a book and only have about three pages in it. The key things, and someone do I do this, don't do this. So what's in this book, though, is three pages? Four pages, even better. Don't be a twat. Repeated to leave pages or just don't be a twat. No, don't turn it to be a twat.

Do you think people are just worried about saying the wrong thing? I think so. But in a way, it's all wrong. I mean, it's a wrong. There's no rule book. I'd rather have the wrong thing said, and then them learning from it. I've said the wrong things,

but you always do. It's part of life. Do you have things in the house that remind you, I guess everything reminds you of that? Yeah. Do you keep in particular things, you know, objects? I started to put lots of photos up.

And my dad went, well, you look, quite a lot of photos up. You know, is that a good thing? That's all I got. You know, they've got a beautiful picture I took her in the Caribbean on the beach, and it's by my front door, and every time I go in there,

I kiss it and do that every time. And I walked in the other day and I took a photo of it. Photo of the photo? Photo of the photo because my face was in the reflection. The sun was coming. Beautiful. Can I show you? Yeah, I'd love to see it.

And I just, and it just made me happy. Oh God, that's our first photo we've had together, ain't you? You know? Let me show you. Hang on, hang on. You're here somewhere. There you go. So I just came in the front door and the lights coming in

and reflected and saw me. Oh, you could see what you've done that. Yeah. It's right time, you know, right place. Beautiful. Yeah, so the thing is, I get down the path and then I've got to go back if I don't say, love ya, no, walk the door.

So I got to go back. Love ya. Rubbed Buddha's belly and out the door, you know. Some of it's, I don't know, I've never said this, but it's quite exciting because I can blank hands, you can do what you want. Yeah. I'm cycling stuff, so I was, I was looking at a thing

called a rat race yesterday from across Chile. Cross Chile. Can't do that. You should do it. I want to do a big ride as a fundraiser. Yeah. Obviously do it all. Yeah, yeah, it's fine.

I think there's so much release through action. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll tell you one thing I do. I host international cyclists. They stay with me. I've read a lot of cycle touring books. And... Fun?

Yeah, nerd. How many are there? Oh man, there's a thousand. A lot. I spent £150 pound on a book the other day, on Oxfam site. site and might have been a little bit drunk. One book for 100 of you pounds?

Yeah. What was it? What was it? It's an 1887 first edition of the first guy to circumnavigate the world on a bike. It took in four years and he did it on a penny farving. Amazing. English guy, always. Yeah, classic.

But in these touring books, the general consensus is Iranian people and the nicest people in the world. They always want to know what the world thinks of their country. Yeah. You know, and you knock at their door, you're a gift from their god. and they're God, they've been chosen to host you. La, la, la. And there's this group called Warm Showers. It sounds horrendous.

It's a wrong name for it. Everyone looks and me like, but be good, pardon. What do you do? It's not that. But it's an American thing, and you're 30-pound lifetime membership. And people tour in,

they just email you. Can I stay with you on that date? Yeah, no worries. You can either give them a tent space in a garden and a hose pipe. I go full money. It's like the greatest air B&B ever. Beer, wine, salad, starters, desserts.

Amazing. That's great. And they're as international cyclists? International cyclists, yeah. Lots of Belgians, lots of Dutch and Germans. All in the gear? All in the gear, a lot of motorian. Do they ever take it off?

It was gear the whole time. Oh man, sometimes they stay for two or three days if they're knackered. Amazing. Yeah, I'm like, crack on. There's the key. I'm going to work. It's very sweet of you. I had a lot of people say, yeah, boy, if they nick off you,

I don't know if this bloke's going to ride three months from southern Portugal to still staying off my, you know, shelf. If they do, they do. Because for me it's a bit of company. Yeah. My reviews are the best. I bet they are. I should be like an air doing ice, great, man.

I've got five lads staying with me next week. Five, I haven't had five yet. And one of them's, uh, I have to have halal food and all of that. Yeah, whatever. Speak them. 17 year olds are doing a charity ride. Can we stay your house? Yeah, no, I swear.

It's great. That's lovely. Such a nice thing. Oh, so it's a nice thing to do. Yeah, yeah, I'll get so much out of it. Bet? Yeah. Warm showers.

It's the worst name ever. It's a bad name. Yeah. Tell me about a little bit more about what's it like working for a big family. You know, you must have seen everyone grow up and it's... Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're my surrogate children. Three girls, three boys.

Youngest is 19. You know, I had him when he was eight, seven or eight. So every day you build a relationship, you know, they... Private school locally, so you're driving them to school and... In a bit of a wagon, again, so? Yeah, yeah, yeah, big old car, dropping off at three different private schools and stuff. Oh, there's three different ones. Yeah.

But, you know, they come. They come up and see my parents. I got a party next month because they're laid birthday party and they're all coming and yeah, I love them dearly. I speak to them every day. Even the girls are away at uni or working every day. Amazing. What, I mean, so, you know, what are you to them? What do they, what do they, what's that role?

A few years ago, they called me their gay uncle dad. One, I'm not gay and I'm not their uncle and I'm not their dad. But that's how they name me. That's very funny. It's great. Part of the furniture. Yeah, totally. Yeah.

What do you think of? the parents of these, the children. You know, it's quite a rare thing to have someone come and be such a big part of these. Yeah. And, you know, as a kind of substitute in each. They're used to it. Russians are very, very different than us.

I've got used to them. I think I've changed their outlook on stuff slightly as well. In what way? Not everyone's out to get you. Some people are nice because they're just nice and don't want anything. Yeah.

Russian mindset is they don't do small talk. They don't show emotion. If you show emotion, you're weak. If you don't drink, you're not a proper man. All of that stuff, you know. The first time I met them, they had a house in Malibu, so I met them in Heathrow. So it was like the Von Trappes.

So kids went in different heights. There was mum, dad, I think two nannies, grandparents. And they kind of looked at me just like, it's the staff, they've had staff all the life. Six kids used to have seven nannies when they lived in Moscow. The youngest had two. And all armed. Different world, you know.

And I'm driving out here for thinking, don't get lost, don't crash the 80 grand car. So I've got my boss man next to me, mother behind me, and the oldest son next to me. And I'm talking to my employer and the boss lady behind me. He says, I have a question. Yes. Why are you ginger? Why? Why?

So I went, well, I knew my first down the job today meeting you. I dyed my hair last night to make it look good. And it went wrong and came out like this. straight over the head. I thought it was hilarious. It's a good one. I'm quite brave as well. I know.

I was quite relaxed. And then the old man looked there and said, no, no, no, no. I mean you've got Irish or Scottish heritage. I went, nah, just the ginger. Okay. The ginger's a russia are quite a rare thing. It's just like it's the first time she ever spoke to me.

Why are you ginger? But yeah. Over the years, I've been the son of the devil because I don't believe in Christ. All sorts of stuff. I'm like, yeah, I'm like that now. Yeah, whatever. You know.

That's interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're giving you a little bit of a heart out here and there, but he always loved you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They've always been very, very good. And particularly, I had free rain when Donna was dialysis three days a week. That's where you need to do, you know.

Have you ever had points of clash with them? Obviously, like, you know, you're in their house. There must be some kind of moments where you didn't see a time. The youngest, he's 19. He's taller than me now. That's his biggest achievement so far. Being told than you. Yeah.

Getting bigger. He wants to the gym. I've done quite for 35 years and he wants a fight. He's one of the fights since he was 13. So now he's done, he's A level so we're having a fight next month. In the tennis court, I'm like, bring it on. He's doing my lesson.

What does he think did it happen? I said to him, where's this come from? Where's your skills? Oh, don't show me. Shut up. So it's like, well, mom and dad like, okay. 35 years of karate's got a long time. Yeah, yeah, starting as a kid.

What has it meant to you over the years? Just everything. It's fantastic. But then, Yeah, when it was on past, I was like, ah, I don't want to do this anymore. And now you just don't do it at all? No. So is that, I don't know, it's as intrigued by that as a, you know, do you, do you, do it pop into your head?

Do you think about it? Do you go, well, what was that 35 years? I mean, you know, kind of, do you regret any of it? No, not at all. You know, first time I went to New York, we had an international tournament in New York in 96, things in Japan, things in Australia, and I wouldn't have done any of that, you know. And the people I'd associate with, you know, doctors, accountants, then on my crowd, but they're still great mates. You know, when you've been through it forever, you know, weddings and it's lovely.

They came to Don's funeral. You know, it's just like, wow, what a funge, you know. What are the lessons that kind of Gracie has taught you? The discipline of it. No matter what it is, you can be learning an instrument. You know, everything takes time. You know, there's no short cut. Yeah, it's commitment, dedication, and they kind of lift the fight another day thing as well.

But at the same time, when to react, you know, what they say, bet to be judged by 12 and carried by 6. You know, just got to be smart, but it's a wonderful thing to learn. So how many times have you used karate outside of karate? Physically twice. Can you tell me about those times? Both when Donna was in A&E one time. Oh, that isn't tricky?

Yeah. What, I thought the doctors. Well, no. I went, can you get me saying to week, baby? No, I went to McDonald's. And there's a big bouncer dude in there. And I got me food and I thought, yeah, he knew it. And I went out in the high street, and he was separating a fight,

and these blocs were pummeling into him. But I thought, that's not fair. And I had me big Macmill and me drinking one end. I pulled a guy off. And I thought, what have you done? It's not your fight. But it wasn't, the numbers weren't fight. It was an unfair fight.

So he was. So what were the numbers, though? There was three guys. It was a race hate crime. The black kid was getting beaten up. So the bouncer came out to separate it. and another two guys were piling on the bouncer, and let's make it even, so I pulled him off.

And then, come on that, you know, they turn into an English football fan. He came at me, his brother was there as well, and I just kicked him straight in the stomach like a front kick, and he just rolled up and rolled up and rolled the ball and went backwards and just laid in the floor, like, and then you up it, and then my language gets more aggressive and you, you know, F and C's and all this. They'll have to put the food down. They're bullies.

And then they realise they can't win that one. And they're walking back, was giving it the big of, that's all these stomach. And I went over to the two lads who got beaten up. They were students in Canterbury University. And they said, we're going to go and get an off. We're going to do him and all this.

I'm like, well, come with me. De-escalation. Walked away, look, I said, we're doing uni. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're studying. Da, da, da. They're young. Frank's man.

So I went back to the thing. Don was like, where you've been? You know, McDonald's was cold, so I got it in here. And then 10 minutes later, I went to look, came around the corner, and those two lads who got beating up, the two black ears, they were sitting in A&E because they had been pretty duffed up. And they were like, if that bloke, fuck a hell, it's that bloke. Like guardian angel.

And I was like, don't know, look, it did happen. She's like, but at the same time, it could have gone completely wrong. Yeah. Because one of them could have pulled out of knife. I was lucky. Tell me about, um, the one thing I didn't touch one earlier, which I meant to ask. You talked about maybe wanting kids, but not having them.

Yeah. Can you tell me a bit more about that? It is not too tricky. Yeah, no, no, sure. Yeah, it was never a thing that Donner and I thought, right, let's try for children. We kind of had the inclination that we wouldn't be able to have them. Then we were quite young and the NHS gave us two loads of IVF for free. It was a lot of money.

We were good to go with that and then we decided to say no and give it to someone else. Really? Yeah, we don't know. Why not? Because she said it wouldn't be fair. I might not be here in the future, so let's give that opportunity of the idea for someone else. And it was that elephant in the room that we didn't speak about for years and years and years.

After or before? After. We never had that conversation of, she tried for child? Just didn't have it. Yeah. Because, you know, it didn't need to. You're kind of dragging, saying up and you don't need to do it, you know? But we had so much going on that it wasn't a thing of we weren't.

pining for it, you know. And then maybe we were, but we never discussed it, you know. But there's the only time now since Don's God, I wish I had kids, because I'd have something to put my focus on. Yeah. Can I say something? Yeah. Obviously, it seems, it's a million miles off, but, you know, there's a chance you can say it. Yeah, no, no, absolutely. I mean, it's obviously such a big thought, but like you have so much love to give. Yeah. And you already give it. Yeah. And obviously that gives you so much to yourself. Yeah. That feels like you can do it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I can. Even like my girls at work, I said, you know, now's time. You're going to foster, can't it? Yeah. You do it in any kind of way. Yeah. But I'm like, no, no, I want this time for me now.

And I'm, my warm showers is good. The Russian kids are always going to be there. You know, they'll have kids one day, hopefully. And I'll be great-un-gall-gay-uncle-old. Yeah, great-uncle gay dad. But it's sort of, it's, yeah, I don't. feel I almost want to be selfish and have just me. That's a freedom that I haven't had for before.

And it's sort of got to get used to it, you know. Well, you've got lots of time for anything to change. Yeah, yeah, that's right, yeah. I'm a young 50. Yeah, I'm a young 50. You're fresh. What do that mean to you to be 50 out of interest? Fucking old.

You're like, how did this happen? Yes, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because I've got a lot of momentous things I did in my life. 95, I went to Portugal for six months with me, mate. I went New York first, and then went to Australia for them, and then went back to Australia. Then we moved to Cornwall, then we split up, then we got back together. Why did you split up?

Because Don was in Spain on a holiday, and she phoned me up, she said, I love you, but I don't know if I love you because you look after me and you give me everything like that. Broke my heart. But I thought, wow, how brave that? Because she needs to find out rather than just string me along. We were living together and everything, so I had a mate living in Newki at the time. so I phoned him up.

I come down so I stayed there six months. We got together after about three months again, got back together. She really like, yeah, I do love you. And it is the right thing. I'm not doing it because, you know, you are a nice guy, I'll do it because I love you. And I thought that's immense.

And yeah, we got to get me moved to Cornwall for 10 years and had a lovely time there. It's best 10 years down there, mega. I do get an incredible sense if she's so in you. Oh, man. She's immense as in her compassion or understanding for everyone else.

I used to think I'm a son of a copper, so he'll beggars and drug, he's all, bloody scumbags. She was like, no, no, no, let's help Medicaid. Do you not know what it did? And taught me so much of that kind of stuff, rather than everyone's a scum bag and a scrote. Yeah, totally solid. I can see why, you know, you still wear the ring.

You know, I mean, I can see, you know, it's kind of really clear that. This was, this was, I got this done when, went on path. We always said, if anything does happen, and we get our wedding rings and we're melted down. down into one and I went to a jeweler just basically street down there and I walked in there it's about three days after Don passed. Got be emotional when he went take your time you know you could sense it and I said to

him I've just lost my wife and I said I want to do something with the rings you're all right alright so I said there's nice rings he said I could melt them down he said was a nice idea but he said you'll lose Donner's ring and he said why don't I just put them together I never even thought that I went yeah yeah okay do that and I was in there talking to him and crying my eyes out and hugging them. Never met for about hour and a half. And he emailed me that next day and he said, pick your ring up this evening.

He said, won't charge you. He said, it's a gift for me to you. Just like, what the fuck, it's amazing. And that was early days. I'm thinking, yeah, this is going to be all right. And he was like, Donna sounds great. It's like, yeah, man, you know. Yeah.

You talk wonderfully about her. Yeah, I'm very proud of it. And you feel it so strongly. Yeah. I mean, you're doing a wonderful job of keeping her alive. Yeah, that's the legacy. Which is your big, which is your main job. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is.

When I went out for dinner Friday night with some friends, my friends talk about her and drop her name all the time. She said, no, I don't remember when we did this, we don't. And it's like, and I text, I said, it's so lovely her in my wife's name. She's like, hey, I thought you like that. And it's like, yeah, she exists still. It's lovely.

It's not gone to me. Mm, of course. Yeah. Yeah. I mean obviously that proximity to someone dying has it made you think about your own mortality model? Yeah. I used to be a little bit scared of death.

I don't care now. Really? I want to have a long life. I mean no rush to see Donna because she will say, what are you doing? She would be furious if I did anything stupid. And she'd be like you had this opportunity to live and you fucked it up and I've seen you too soon.

You absolute twat. You know. So it's sort of, I'm going to look after myself. Yeah. What age do you think you'd have to be to not get a bollicking? 80. 80. You got a sorry to able. I got a way to go yet.

And I had a dream the other day. Don was late 20s. We were in Cornwall. I knew the outfit she was wearing. She had a pair of jeans and slip on shoes. And I woke up and had butterflies. Because I'd still see a lot of poorly, Donna. Not of young, fit, Donna.

And that's the first time I'd seen her young and fit and looking good. And I'd look butterflies in me very. It was like, oh my God, I'm the dim in you. And it was like, wow. Having lost your wife, what would you say to anyone who is in a long-term relationship and everyone is healthy? What would you say to them? Good question.

Enjoy this. It's all you've got. It's so precious. So precious. And I've lost. I know how precious it is. So it's cliched and cheesy, but it's fucking 100% true. Don't take it too seriously.

It's not all money, work and that crap. It's about sitting on a bench talking a stranger, doing crap drawings of peers. So glad you stopped and... I'm really glad I stopped you. Ruined my art project. No, because I thought, what's this guy? I thought, I straight away thought, oh no, he wants to look at my book.

The fear, someone's looking at my books. Someone else to look at it. I like that, I like the idea now that that sketch, That sketch, you know, obviously, you've got significant. Different reason now. You can stop in time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. I might just leave it.

If you go back. And then you look at it in future, like, oh yeah, that's how I was halfway through that. I'll add to it and say, oh, it was so much better. But this bloke stops me. Love it. Okay, last question for you. Yeah. Either answer this in a now way or a general way or both.

What are you going to do next? Look at my watch. It's 25 past 5. I've got to be at my parents for dinner at 6. And I was going to bail out and not go, because I was quite down. But I'm going to go out of there and see them and have dinner. So you've picked me up, and this has been very cathartic. You've improved my day massively. So thank you again. Very kind of need to say that. And I've enjoyed talking to you so much. Pleasure. Yeah, it's unique. Keep it up.

Thank you. it's not great someone walks by and I hide it away it's for me it's just me right 35 years

karate master faster to find me it's just me right now because on the brakes the sound of thunder lets me know you're there with friends

Tell stories I see you there. When I put a smile on my face, it's for me. It's just me, right.