Strangers on a Bench - EPISODE 87: Charge It To The Game

Episode Date: May 11, 2026

Tom Rosenthal approaches a stranger on a park bench and asks if he can sit down next to them and record their conversation.This is what happened! Produced by Tom RosenthalEdited by Rose De LarrabeitiMixed by Mike WoolleyTheme tune by Tom Rosenthal & Lucy Railton Incidental music by Maddie AshmanEnd song : 'Mother Knows Best' by Peter DeavesStream it here : https://ffm.to/motherknowsbestListen to all the end songs featured on the podcast (so far) on one handy playlist :https://ffm.to/soabendsongs————————————————————————————Instagram : @strangersonabench Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello. So it to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench, where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a go? Okay, how are you feeling? Good. How's it going? Great. So let's explain what's happened here.

We were about to sit on a bench, but it started raining. heavily heavily so this is a bench first we are on a bench technically technically but this bench is in your van 100% it is a small little legy boy but it's a bench you know there you go so this is new territory okay shall I tell you how this works there's a start question and an end question is the same for everyone who does this and whatever happens in the middle just happens in the middle If there's any questions you don't like, just do they shove me out of the van.

Sounds good. Sounds all right. I'm good at that. First question is, do you have a favourite day of the week? Oh, I do, Tuesday. Why? Tuesday is my quietest day of the week.

It's the only day where I finish before 2pm, which is rare. Every other day I'm working until God knows when I finish. So on Tuesday after two, you know, what is the dream? I just realised we said you were in a back of a van.

We should probably say what this is because of people are going to be wondering. Oh yeah, why in the back of van? Yeah. It looks like you deliver packages. I do. Unless you just have a lot of packages. Yeah, stole them from everyone.

So yeah, I'm a courier in the area. Been here for six years. And Tuesday is the only day where I can finish early. and I get two days off a month so it's consistent, hectic and mad all at the same time but it's lovely does that make any sense and on Tuesdays when I'm finished

I tend to do nothing which is amazing pure peace what does nothing look like go home eat relax at home with the family and then see the boys if I could see the boys and sleep

it's just where my life is just so heavy all the time just to have one peaceful day just makes a massive difference. I can be human. So yeah, that's why I like Tuesdays. That's a good answer.

What would you be, let's imagine one of these Tuesdays, but it's totally free? Yeah. What would be your dream way of spending that whole day? Is anything you particularly do? So first thing is have a fry-up. Nothing beats a good fry-up, you know?

Proper English breakfast. What's in there? Oh, sausage beans, double hash browns. Yeah, get the double in there. Yeah, get the double-hry up. Ash browns, toast as well, mushrooms, tomatoes, just a full whack. I'm a skinny, can I swear? Yeah, you can swear.

I'm a skinny fat prick. All right. So anything to do with food and then a coffee. And honestly, whatever life takes me, I don't like to plan, I like to live. Sometimes planning is a distraction from living if that makes any sense. I just like to go with the flow of it. Yeah. Can you give a go with a flow example?

You know what, last time I'm done it was quite big as well. It was a spontaneous holiday. I got the weekend off, which is very rare. Like I never get weekends off ever. Yeah. So do you want the weekend off? Yeah, of course. That evening I went home, booked a holiday and I went to Paris for the weekend.

Super. And it was amazing. How did you find Paris? What's the Paris vibe? I'm not a fan, if I'm honest. I'm not a fan. I love it. You booked it but you didn't love it.

Yeah, it's good to try different countries, different food, different cultures. And I see if it's for you or for not. That's the spirit. Yeah, man. To travel is better than to arrive. What do you think it was about it that wasn't quite like, wasn't quite your vibe? When you got to Paris, it's basically London but just nice to scenery. The food was nice with the Eiffel Tower, you know.

You got the Mona Lisa, you got all of that lovely, jovely stuff. But it's just not just not. It's so busy, right? And the trains stink. Have you ever been to Paris? Yeah. The tube stink, they're so bad. Right?

But apart from that, it's just, yeah, I prefer London. Yeah, that's absolutely fair. Yeah, of course. London's home. Has London always been home? Yeah, I mean, I'm 35 in a month. I came here after a birthday. Thank you, man.

So tell me, right, you're about to say, you came here and you're three years old. Yeah. Algeria. Fantastic. Yeah, yeah, North Africa. Beautiful sky, beautiful food, beautiful weather. Do you know why you, I mean, I'm guessing you know why you came?

What was the story behind you coming? Oh yeah, it's a lovely story actually. Oh, is it? Okay, here we go. Yeah, yeah. Hit me. When I was three years old, I drank bleach. Okay, alright. And it burned my esophagus.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, yeah, two stories. Hang on, hang on. This is actually part of the story of why... I came to the UK. Because you drank bleak. I drank bleach when I was three years old in Algeria. So let me explain a picture for you, right? I did, yeah, hit me.

So we live in like a block of flats, right? In Algeria. In Algeria, right? And I was first in, I remember it till this day. I ran upstairs little old me, right? Entered the kitchen, at the bottom of the kitchen, under the sink, you know, they got the cabinet, right? And we had two bottles and the bottles looked like water, right? But they didn't have no, um, no labels, that's the word.

Right, so I just saw it and I drank literally a lid full of bleach. And on the spot, I just puked everywhere. Oh, God. So the doctors in Algeria said to my mum, look, your son, he's not going to live, he's going to die. So I've got, one, two, three. Three operations in Algeria, and they sent me here for medical reasoning. So I went to Great Ormond Street Hospital, and there was a doctor. I'll never forget him, actually.

He's a godsend. He said, the operation is going to cost about realistically 20,000. But look, if you can sum up 10,000. to my mum. This is in 1994. It's a lot of money. She wasn't working. She had no paperwork. She's not a resident in the UK. She had nothing. All she came was for my son's medication

and we're going to go back. Right? This is a true story. That's amazing. Right? So my mum, she just took me around all different charities, just raised to 10,000 and went back to him. Here's the money, you know? Here it is. Done the operation.

They had to cut 2.5 centimetreys on my and they had to cut two centimeters of my intestines off as well. So they opened me up from my front and from my back. So I've got like stitches in my stomach and in my back as well. It's a funny story. Until I was in year five, which is about 10 years old, right? I used to eat for my stomach. I was not allowed to eat hard food.

Sorry, so again, you used to eat through your stomach. I used to eat through my stomach. I was not allowed to eat through my mouth. So I had a tube in my stomach. my stomach and I used to eat from it. Oh wow. Just through there. Through here so I used to have a tube here and I used to have baby food pumping for it to eat. Whoa. This is near five and then these are the operations here. So for the purpose of people who can't see our strangers lifted up his top to reveal that he's got this amazing like

what do you call it a hole? A second billy button. Second buddy button. Yeah yeah so that was that was for that was from ages what, five to ten you say? From the operation which is when I was about four until I was in year five, so about, yeah, 10 to 11 years old, give a take. So that meant you just didn't taste anything, obviously, right? No. So what was that like when you were 10? What happened then? So I was in school, in primary school, and it was lunchtime or break time.

And we were playing football from what I recall. The tube that I eat from must have fell. And because it fell, I had to go back to the hospital. And they said, yeah, it's time to feed your son properly. he needs to learn how to chew and how to eat. I've got a lot of questions for you now. Sure. I suppose the first question I came to me is like,

what was the impact on you as a person having to endure all this? You've done something completely random, age three. It's completely changed your life. Well, forever, basically. But like, how is it like shaped who you are? Who would you be without this? That's a deep question, man. You know, because of me, drinking.

I think in bleach, I see it in two different aspects. In one aspect, it meant that I couldn't have a proper childhood. Wasn't allowed to go out, wasn't allowed to go to play dates and all these things with your friends. I didn't have a chance to live with my father, right? Because he stayed in Algeria, he didn't want to move back to the UK. So he'd worked with him, that meant you work with him as well. Just me and my mum, since forever. So in that aspect, it showed me the value of having someone who actually gave their life for you to

the fullest as my mom did. But then it also allowed me to understand people more and differently if that makes sense. Like I understand everyone's different, everyone's had their own pain and

misery or a blessing, which I call it. Because if I do and do that, then I wouldn't be a British resident now or a citizen. It's given me an opportunity to make a life here and become the man that I am. So that's a blessing and a curse. That makes sense. That's obviously a beautiful way of thinking about it.

You know, it's important we think about these things that possibly if we can do they help us survive it? Yeah, yeah, of course. On the curse front, like, on whatever has really held you back, any bit of it, like... Yeah, most of it. Most of it.

Like, literally, most of it. Like, it becomes a certain aspect to where I can't do things that I want to do. Like, even till now, there's certain things that I cannot eat properly. My esophagus is too small. It's not a normal esophagus size So then it gets stuck This happened recently

At lamb chops And because I didn't chew properly It got stuck in my esophas And I had to go to the hospital And they had to put a tube down my throat To push it down I can't breathe, right? Just through one little silly mistake

It's completely In a way It's messed up my life But then if I did And I was like a normal kid Who drank water and obliage I would not be here Yeah.

Well, it's... I mean... I've got two silly questions that come to my head. Yeah, go for it. But, like, I mean, do you find just bleach anything now and just, like, trigger it? No. Do you mean anything?

Like, do you see it and, like, go throw you off? I've learned not take life too serious. Because I grew up in a school where I used to get bullied a lot. Because I used to have a tube, and everyone who sees it. And, you know, you've got two belly buttons. And, you know, you can't eat like a normal kid. And it fucks up with your brain, you know? Like everyone else around me, they're like everyone would play with everyone.

That was just that one kid that was on his own a lot. Right. And that as a child, again, it messes you up dramatically. So I've learned now that I don't really care about anything or anyone or what people think. It's just, okay. It is what it is and move on with your life. So when I do see bleach, I just laugh. Like my sister now, whenever she says, oh, be careful, don't drink that.

I love it. You could eventually laugh about everything if you wait long enough, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. That's the magic. Tell me, like, at the time, obviously, you're three, and you drunk it, is it any, any part of you that places any blame on anyone? I can't. Obviously, I was three, I didn't know what I was doing, but...

As much as you want to, you can't, because it's making an excuse, an excuse is get you nowhere in life. I messed up, I drank bleach, I'm here now. It could have been worse. Could have been worse, could have been dead. Yeah. I could have blamed someone else. It's a very good point.

It's a very good point. It's just, it's just, it's just, it's what it is. Yeah. And that's the last thing that I want to do, you know. It's like blaming someone for something that they had no knowledge of, no intention of. What difference is that going to make now? It's done. You say like you had a tube in school and stuff and, you know, used to be teased and whatnot.

Like, how did you get through that? You don't. That's a rally of it. You don't. You just have to deal with it. So how did you deal with it at the time? You just like, just try to not. You can't listen to it. Because like you're a kid.

You're gonna fight someone. I'm already skinny. They're gonna end up hurting me and that's it. That's another injury caused to already damn his body, isn't it? I thought you know, I just got to learn to bite your tongue and leave it. Yeah. Who helped you get through that time other than yourself? That process. I didn't tell anyone.

Oh, whoa. Okay. I couldn't. Why? I don't know. As soon as it sounds, it's just, in a way, it's pride, but in a way it's starting another problem that you don't need. Where I'm from in London, if you see something's wrong and you grass, as they say,

or snitch or tell someone, it's going to come back to you regardless. So sometimes I should let it be. It's going to sound messed up, because I should have told someone about it. didn't. Not even your mum. No, no.

As much as I love my mum, I tell her so much, I've always restricted what I told her in everything in life, which is good and bad. So what about your teacher, do they see it, or is it kind of just always away from them, I guess? Just always away from them, really. Because my mum used to come to school, right, at lunchtime to feed me, and she's taken me to a separate room, which they gave to her, so I know and know. could see me. Being fed. Yeah, yeah, to eat. But before and after, it's back to normal. And when, like, when did that kind of stop? When I went to secondary school? Yeah. So that was like

a new start? That was like a new chapter. So you rock up and you're without the tubes? Without the tubes. See that? No one knows anything about me. It's just a normal kid who's come to school. And so you can pretty much start again? Yeah. Yeah. From secondary school, this is a good while back now thinking about it. It was the last time where I was properly happy, if that makes any sense. There was no responsibility, no bills, no

expectations, just go study and do your best. How did you place yourself in school? When you're that age, you often find a role to be, like, you know, the clown or the, where did you put yourself? I wanted to be the clown. I'm the clown below the

clown. Yeah. So I was the clown that got caught. And everything that happened. You mean, like I didn't say you try, you know, you're a bit cheeky when you got caught. Yeah, you tried to be cheeky, but every time your teacher catches you're in detention, you're in trouble. Can you think about any particular examples of things you might have done? I've done so much.

I've done so much. Okay, I've done so much. Go ahead, great a month. You know, when you're young and your childhoods, you don't know what you're doing. Yeah. You just save for the sake of sake of saying. That's one habit that I've still got to till now. Where I speak what I think, I don't think what I speak.

Got it. Does it make sense? I see, so that would obviously land you in trouble. A lot of trouble. But yeah, that was a little, yeah. I was a little ass. When did you kind of like, maybe you haven't, I don't know, but when was a point where you kind of like

became not a little ass? I don't know, for me, I haven't matured late. Like 21, maybe 22. That's very late. Yeah. That makes sense, isn't it, if you've had a childhood like yours where your growth has been sunted by lots of different stuff, in terms of emotional growth, right?

Oh yeah, but my... It probably makes sense that it would happen later on. Yeah, yeah, so at 21, I think, or 22, and I started working. I went to university and I dropped out. And then I went to another university and I dropped out again. Let's rewind a minute. Why did you drop out of both?

I just went into it. Yeah, I don't know. Why did you go in the first place? I don't know for the sake of making my mum happy. Yeah. Right, because that was her thing. So I went the first year, I done business management, marketing I thought yeah this is a good subject let me try it halfway

for the year I said yeah I'm not doing this normal I rather work you know there's some people who are book smart and there's some people who are work smart if that makes any sense yeah street smart yeah street smart basically but now I'm forcing myself to learn more and read more and educate myself more I mean yeah everyone can be both I guess or can improve at both right at least yeah knowledge is beautiful knowledge is free but people don't have the the money to pay for it if that makes any sense and money is time. Yeah, or like that kind of form of learning.

It's true and also it's just like I was kind of pushed into doing business studies, right? If I had the choice I'd probably done something else and maybe I would have continued and studied and got a degree. Yeah. Well, at least you can say you tried it twice. Yeah. So you drop out and then... I started working in a retailer, Clark, so you know the shoe shop. Yeah.

Yeah. I loved it, that's where I really learnt to grow and got more of a man, you know. When you start making money, you start to spend for yourself, provide for the house. All these things shape you. That's where I learned how to sell, and I love sales. That's where I thought, you know what, maybe I can be a salesman. Let me try that out. So across the road, went into EEE, the phone shop, and I asked for a job.

Then they were like, yeah, cool. So within the space of two days, across the road, got a job at E E E. Phone Shop, e-e phone shop, then my manager, my old manager was like, what you're doing? I'm like, started a new job, mate. He hated me. He hated me. I bet.

Yeah, yeah, hated me. Why are you in not the shoes? The shoes got bored. I've always been fascinated with technology and phones, you know, at that age, everyone wants the newest phone, and I want to be the guy to sell it. And I was actually really good at it. She won a lot of awards from there.

I was the best salesman in the whole country. Oh, wicked? Yeah, yeah. The whole country? The whole country, 17,000 employees. That was number one, which is crazy. Whoa. Yeah, yeah.

I suppose, so the big question is, like, I hope you don't take a for sight of fence to this question. How did I get here? How do you go from being the top of something to them not doing it at all? Two very stupid reasons. Right, the first one is greed and the second one is mischief. Okay, greed and mischief. Yeah.

So I don't think is... Which one came first? I mean, they're together? Yeah, interchanged. So hence why I left the phone business. Right. I'm not happy about it, but it's a lesson learned the hard way. Are these things, I mean, can I ask?

Are they like... They're not legal, no. They're not legal, okay. But someone must have found something so you couldn't do it? Yeah, basically. But then you didn't get in trouble? No, because before they don't investigation, I left. Okay.

So I quickly ran away from it. Yeah. And then I went to work for another company. And then the other company was a franchise. Yeah. And the franchise owner goes to them, look, if you don't get rid of this person, we're going to take one of your branches to the franchise owner. So he was like, yeah, look, I'm really sorry we have to get rid of you. So your former job still came after you? Correct. And so at that point, you're like, I'm just going to leave it entirely. So I left it completely.

You say you're like top salesman etc etc. So obviously you enjoyed that and you're good at it. Like what made you good at it? What are like the top three qualities you've got to have? What's the what's the great secret? You got to be a people's person. You've got to be able to adapt to every situation and to every single person because every single person that comes to you is something completely brand new

that you don't know. So adaptability and you've got to be able to like charm your way into them and go for a close, close a deal. What's the word someone can say no? Okay, he said no, try again. And then keep trying and eventually he's going to say yes. And I was good at talking to people, I enjoyed it. I'm very relaxed.

Cool, calm, collected. That's the best way to be in sales, I believe, anyway. Yeah, like it. So a combination of like charm, a bit of push, but also keeping your call. 100%. Is that a fair assessment? 100%. Or you have to be confident as well, man.

And they're a bit cocky as well. So I'm guessing in your job now, you're still seeing people just without the sales bit. Yeah. So in a sense, you still got that, which is nice? But is there something in you that needs that? Yeah, yeah, 100%. Because it's...

I can't work in the office. I can't be confined into one little space. I hate it. And me delivering your parcel, it's you allow me to enter into your life and me entering to your life because everyone that I delivered to I basically know them

practically by first name basis now I've been delivered to them for five, six years now so I know their routines I know when they go on holiday like they tell me everything practically and it's lovely because if anything happens in the area I quickly notice it like if I see someone that's not meant to be

I know like the sense of responsibility as well it's a lot of trust it's a community it's a big family that's how I see it there are some people like you don't want in the family, but at the end day it's family. I've got a lot of questions for you about being a career. You were doing it five years, you say, the same area, same things.

You've got to know people. Like, what level of trust have you reached with some people? Does, will anyone, like, invite you in for a tea or like? All the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One time. Amazing. Yeah, like, I work in a very uptown area, right?

Yeah. And their lifestyle compared to my lifestyle where I live is it's night and day different. Here they're happy, the roads are clean, they speak polite. I live in an area where everyone's miserable and everything is dirty. It's a different world. Obviously I'm delivering their goods and I want to do my job properly because I know them

and it's a matter of trust. But, you know, when you go outside your way for someone that you don't need to do, it's a nice touch and it's rare, especially in this time of age for people, especially what's going on in the world as well. I'm Muslim myself. I deliver to Christians, Jewish people,

Buddhist, atheists, every single person. And one thing is, we've all got the same respect for each other. That's the most important thing. And that's the best way, you know? Yeah. You get a sense of people being a bit lonely?

Do you pick up on that? Yeah. 100%. Yeah. 100%. At that moment of their day. There's an old lady that lives up there, right? Yeah.

She's from Thailand. I don't know her name. I've been delimited for five years. I call her Granny. That's it. I come in, Granny, Oh, hello, my son, how are you?

I sit down with her, help her. Because she's got no one there. Yeah. And when I see her, even if I don't have something, I was called just to make sure, do you need any milk? Do you need any of this? Just a double check on her, you know? And you know, just me, just calling her granny like it.

makes her happy for that two, three, four minutes. And then let's go back on my day. But there's a lot of people who are rich but unhappy. They've got everything you dream of. But they're miserable. Or they're lonely. And then there's people who've got nothing in the same area, but they're over the moon.

Like I've seen so many kids be born. I generally, I've seen about good 10, 11 kids from pre-birth to about four years old, It's amazing. They have literally seen the whole journey. They've kind of grown up with you in a way. Practically, yeah. I just see them like walking their dogs.

Do you want me to walk your dog for you? Oh, well you wouldn't do me a favour, would you? I go, yeah, just leaving me for half an hour, bring them back. Oh, please, walk their dog. Can you think of a delivery you've done? Mm-hmm. Which you remember really fondly, but there's some like small details of it that I have stuck with you. Like either in them or around or around.

like some quiet moment rather than a kind of a big like dramatic one. This doesn't relate to what you're asking me, but it might relate to what you're asking me. Let's try. Right. So there's a property that I delivered to up the road and I deliver to her maybe once a week. Okay. And she's fairly new to the property. But every time someone moves into the area, I try to like, welcome to the area, nice to meet you. I'm your delivery driver for such company if you ever need anything. ask me and I'm happy to help.

Never got anything out of her. Like never ever said hello back, nothing. It's just she took it and booked out of that. It is what it is. She might have something going on. This one day she left her key at the door and she's gone out. So a key by mistake? By mistake on the door lock and she's gone out.

Okay. Right. And I had a parcel for her. And like I've rang the buzzer and I'm waiting for her to come out. She hasn't come out. So I've left a note saying you've left your key. It's your delivery. driver, this is my number, give me a call, when you're home, I can't bring you it.

She called me, she was panicking, like my key, da-da-da-da, go, okay, breathe, relax, I'm coming. Okay, and so I chase you look, it's you, the guy that's always happy. I try to be. She goes, oh my God, you're a godsend. I go, no, no, don't be safe, you're just doing my job, it's looking out for you. She goes, every time you ask me, how are you, I'm always busy with work, I'm really sorry, I was like, don't worry about it. You're busy, I get it, I understand.

Let her be, she went and she bought me a box of perfume, like a proper expensive one, bless her soul, and a box of chocolate. She was like, look, thank you so much. Like, you didn't need to do that. I really appreciate it. I was like, I don't need anything to return. It's just, you know. She goes, no, no, no.

You don't understand what you're doing. It's a amount of trust. I can trust you now with anything. Amazing. But that's one fun memory that I've got. So until that moment, she was just like, basically. like basically didn't even acknowledge you. Nothing.

It's happened a couple of times, the same thing as well. Do you think let's be a bit honest about this for a second. You're delivering stuff to, as you said, like an out market area. I'm just guessing that people look at you here and just assume just like you're a billion percent. You're not in their league. You know, you're in a different league. Like we couldn't, we couldn't like, it's a different one here.

Yeah, 100%. And I guess you can obviously feel it, right? A million percent. Yeah. But all the time. time that's changed. Yeah, but only because of like your spirit, I guess, like you just prove to them time and time again. I mean like, yeah. I mean, how long do you think it takes you to gain someone to gain that trust in that circumstance? No, no, forget to get into

trust to have a full conversation. So even just to start, even just to begin. Like a full conversation will take about two months because they'll get the past and look at you and then they'll like, thank you, look away and go off. They wouldn't even acknowledge you. But once I see all the time and then hi hi there and you're right the weather's nice then from there goes to oh do you have something for me today good to see you and then eventually oh how's your weekend been and then from day they start telling you about their life and their problems and i know so many people's problems oh my god i know so many people's problems maybe this is slightly um what's the word slightly dodged but let's go just don't say anyone's name no no no no no no no obviously what is the

the biggest on-going problem that somebody has that you have to keep hearing about. Do you know what I mean? There's one that I feel sorry for, right? There's one that I don't feel sorry for. One of them is a lady that lives down the road. Bless her soul, her daughter is anorexic, isn't it? And I'm trying to help her find a way to get her food to eat. And this has been going on for about two years now.

Right, bless her soul. But the mom, she's an angel. I feel so sorry for her. But how I mean, just why wouldn't she go to like... She did. Oh, she's taught professional. Professional, she's done everything you can name of. Just out of interest, why, how has she come to trust you?

I've known it for five years. I mean, but obviously... No, but I've spoken to her about my life as well. Oh, I see. Do you think it's like related to your stuff with tubes and... Probably. Yeah, probably. But there's not related.

He probably seen me, look at this too skinny. You know, he must not eat. Let me ask him, he might know something. Yeah. So you feel pretty invested with that? Yeah. 100%. Yeah, 100%.

Because it's a thing where you don't have a choice but to be invested because you're just going to see them again and again and again and again. So whether you like it or not, you're going to try and do whatever you can to help them because you're going to want them to be better. Of course. Yeah. Actually, 18, her life is just about to start. Yeah. You want to see her to live well and eat better and try something. Right?

A lot for you to take on just like a whole other. I mean, this is like a deeply complex thing that you've like suddenly got to have no idea of, Fred. You have no idea. That's a death. This is just one of many. And the other one, I've seen a guy, cheer on his partner, and he's brought another woman to the house.

Okay, hang on, hang on, hang on, let's back up a bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's back up a bit. So you know who... I know both of them. You know both of them, and you know they're together.

I know they together because I've seen them together many a time. Would you know for sure they don't have an open-o-off, for instance? There's only so much you can know. I don't know, I'm not going to ask.

And then, so, hang on. then you've seen someone. So I've seen, so the wife, because they're married. Yeah. Right, she's gone on holiday and I know the wife. So now I've seen the husband with this other woman entering the house or exiting the house or walking up and down the road. And I'm thinking, like, why?

Like if you're going to cheat, you might not be with someone. But have they seen, they haven't seen you. Oh, he's seen me. Oh. Yeah, yeah. We've made proper, like, eye contact her like, hmm, okay. But it's not my business. Man, if it's not your business.

Yeah. Yeah. All the little windows into people's lives. Have you come to like, I don't know, I feel like it's quite rare you meet someone who gets to see so many different lives in one day. Right. Maybe it's related to this area, but how do you end up feeling about just, how people do their lives. Do you know, like, are you ever like,

this is just mad? Or, like, you feel like, you know, like, you've seen a lot of life. On the whole, do you think people are getting it right? Do you think you see common mistakes? Do you see, do what I mean? Yeah, stay in school and study. It's the best advice I can give anyone.

If you want a proper life, you need to have a talent, a lot of footballers that live in, a lot of musicians, or a lot of doctors, lawyers, a lot of people who are very high, tier, what they do, like the best of the best. These people worked hard for what they have and deserve, the lighting deserve.

That's how I see it. Although some of them might have just got it from generational wealth. Oh, lucky bosses. I wish I had generational, I've got generational poorness. I can't blame Norfolk Kelly's life. That's one thing. That's one thing, teaching your kids about finances. That's one thing that a lot of people in this area they do.

They educate their children about finances. You don't feel like you got that? I didn't get it at all. Whatsoever, how money works, the value of money, and how to spend your money. What do you wish you learned? Everything. I've got none of it. Unfortunately, my mum had to raise me on their own and she was restricted to what she could do. That's one thing I regret that she didn't do, which, again, I can't blame her because

knows a lot on her place. She lost her mom and dad. She left them all just to come and medicate me. So as much as she wanted to, she couldn't. And I can never blame her. You mentioned your dad that earlier stayed in Algeria. What happened after that? He just never wanted to come. Yeah. And then what's happened to like, is it alive? He's alive. I just don't have a relationship with him. It's sad because I've always wanted to have a relationship with him.

But in a way pride is not allowing me to have a relationship with him. there's still time? I know there's time but there's two different worlds I'm speaking English and he's going to speak Arabic right and I don't know

I speak Arabic and I understand it fluently right but there's only so much that we can speak to each other about because we live a whole dramatic world I'm a very easy guy in person

I can speak to anyone about anything and not for any type of way but like do you know when your body or your mind just stops you from doing anything that's how I feel over with him and I've tried to before to reach out to try and have a conversation but what he doesn't he doesn't get it's like

you're speaking to a brick wall yeah have you ever spoken to a brick wall yeah hello that's what you hear is they forget about it yeah is that is that a sadness for you i mean do you think about it yeah 100th because i didn't grow up with a father figure my life yeah so there's a lot of things that as a man had to learn to do on my own like ride a bike shave play football you know go out for a mill or like even Father's Day getting a car, something stupid like that, right? Or even like parents evening. It was always my mum and then they'd ask, oh, where's the dad? And then I'd say, yeah, he's not here.

Like it plays a massive difference having both parents. Yeah. We haven't asked you anything about romance stuff. Is there a person in your life? Well, yes and no. Does that make sense? No. Okay.

There is a person in my life, right? And I've been speaking to her for, what, three months? Okay, so new. Very recent. Yeah. But where I've been scarred from the past, I haven't allowed myself to fully dive in. Right?

So I've put a massive barrier to how much I can tell her and how much I can open up to her about, or trust someone. Okay. That makes sense. Because as much as I want to open up to her, I'd be married and divorced, right, in the space of two years. of two years. Oh God, right. Okay, that's fast. It's messed me up.

Ah, so that's the scar bit you're talking about? That is more than a scar. That's, uh... All right. And you're someone with legit scars as well in your body. Yeah, yeah. It's a double up, I had it? Double down or go home. Inside, outside, isn't it? Full packet. Can I ask about the scars at all? Yeah, of course, go ahead. I've gone over them now. Okay. So the marriage was pretty... It will give you for until the wedding day. Okay. Okay.

Can you imagine that? I'm trying to imagine. Everything about it was beauty. The way that we met was like a Disney film. Tell me. Right? So where I live, they've got something called LTNs where they put road closer at the end of the road.

They're just about to start it. So today was the last day that I can go through this one road. Again, I was working this job. And this is the only day I think I've ever been late in the last six months, maybe a year. So instead of being down the road, that 7.30, I was there, 8, 15. I remember to this day, June the 15th, going down the road, and then she's crossed. And as she's crossed, I've had a hard break.

And I've looked at her and I put my arms up, I was like, what are you doing? And then she looked at me, she was, what are you doing? And I'm looking at her, like, thinking, this girl was like, is she a crackhead? Is she stupid? What's wrong with this girl? Why is she not crossing like a normal human person? I had the lights, right? And then, like, she smirked off and she walked off, and I thought, you know what?

I like her energy. I thought I like her energy so I got out the van I've chased her up the road I've got a hi nice to meet you I had a business card right then this is my business card I'm gonna end marrying you a year later on the same day we got married whoa word for word a year late at June the 15th we got married did you choose that day because it was a year from that I mean yeah it was a one year anniversary and I don't know okay it's gonna sound weird I don't know know if you're going to stand it or not, but I was very religious. So you were very religious at that time?

Correct, and I wanted to follow the religious aspect of marriage. Yeah. Right, so you can't do nothing, no kissing, no... No nothing. No nothing. It's straight. Holding your hands, fine? Ideally not.

And did you uphold this, like... Upholded it completely. Like, I went the full whack. Yeah. Wedding day comes, it's all going lovely, lovely. Things happen. She has an argument with my mom. Massive argument in front.

of everyone at the wedding hall. Okay. The wedding got cut off. All right? And then from that day, it was hell. Nah, I wouldn't say it was hell. That's a lie. I'm not going to lie to it.

It wasn't hell. It was a mixture of... It was beautiful and it was tough, you know, but it was an eye-opener. That's when I really learned how to be a man. In that period after the wedding. Through the divorce, that's when I learned to really be a man. Okay.

That's when I valued what love is. What I valued my time is and my pieces. Now, value my peace and my time more than anything else. Hence why I cannot open up to another person so quickly. Okay, so obviously just... Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. It's a story, right?

My life is literally a roller coaster. It's okay. Right. So, I mean, basically, can you take me through how your mum and her ended up having a big argument in Islam we have two separate

sides of the wedding there's a female's only side and there's a men's only side because Islamically the woman is not allowed to show her face, hair sorry or her body right right any other man apart from our husband or her dad

or her brother got it anyone else apart from them free is forbidden you're not allowed so until then perfect and then I've gone in to, you know, at the end of the evening, have some cake, take some pictures with my mum, her mum.

Suddenly, her dad, my brother-in-law, my brother, have entered the hall without anyone informing us that they've entering their women's section hall to take pictures with me. Now, as they've entered, obviously, there's a lot of women without the hair scuff, and she was wearing a dress, and you could see her upper chest, right? Now she's turned around and started shouting at my mum For the men coming in Because she thought that your...

That my mum initiated for them to come in And then the whole hall is full of guests and there's music playing But as the shouting has happened The DJ has chosen to put the volume down As he's put the volume down Everyone's hearing the shouting on And then you know becomes pride now Like how this young girl shouting at

My mum man Long story short That's gone on and on and on and on My mum just said look Why are you shouting? I mean like, if you keep shining, I'm just gonna walk out. And then she shouted again, my mom was like, cool, she walked out. Why is the DJ turned the music down?

Because people are people, you know? Some people just- It's gotta go the other way. Yeah. Life is life and life-lifed. Cool. So. Life really did lie.

Yeah, man. Right, okay, so back to the argument. And you're having argument, then your mum walks out. Yep. So now. What's your brain doing at that point? Like how are you? I swear to you not, I was just sitting there thinking what,

am I going to do you now? Do I pick my mum or do I pick my wife? And as a man, that's the hardest decision you can make, right? But realistically, the right answer is your mum, because your mom's been there for you since forever, especially for me. Obviously, so I've gone to my mum and I've told her, look, don't worry, we'll see it out, we'll try to resolve it. So I've taken her home, gone back home to my mum's. Yeah, man, and then I tried to get them to talk. She was stubborn. My mum was stubborn. After about a week, there was finally some communication between the two. So imagine for a whole week I'm just there trying to deal with the situation. Yeah, like the mediator. Hell. Sort of the situation just about. We end up

living together for what's like a year, give a take. We went on some holidays. It was nice. But got to the stage where the topic kept coming up and then there was no respect between her me and my mum. So I told her, look, I tried and I picked my mum all the time. So good luck in your life. So it was your, the divorce is your call? Yeah. You initiated it. We basically couldn't see a point where... Once there's no respect to relationship, there's no more relationship. You could try as much as you can to fix it, it's done. So you said earlier that you like that divorce was like a, a huge learning moment.

Can you say why that's been the case? You learn you to give your time to you, man. To give you a love to, to give your energy to. Because money comes and goes, but your energy, you know, that takes the most out of you. Especially when you're giving everyone everything. To give everyone everything is tough. You said also, I should remember the exact phrasing, but you said like, But you said like I was religious then before, which would imply that you don't feel the same now.

No, so. So what does that mean? My life has been a bit of a mess with everything that I've done that I told you about. And this is the first time. Let me try and follow God's plan. Before you got married. Before my thought, let me do it properly just to please God so hopefully I can get what God wants me to get, which is heaven. Everyone wants to go to heaven.

Whoever said doesn't go to heaven is practically lying to you. Right? So I tried it, didn't work out, and then after I just fell out of love with religion. And humans, if I'm honest with you. I just stopped caring about anyone and everything, and I just did whatever I wanted to do, which is good and mad. And where are you now? I'm trying to get back to God.

So somewhere in between? Yeah, it's tough, man. So with your person you're seeing for it, so imagine you do find someone that excites you. Would you try and repeat the same thing you did with your ex-wife? Or would you, I don't know. Do you what I mean? How you perceive?

No, no. So the woman that I'm seeing now is, she's not Muslim, she's Christian. So that's a whole change in the aspect, right? Yeah. So I'm allowing myself to open up to someone based on the person that I like. Sometimes you go for looks, right? And looks is the worst thing for someone to have. Because they can be the most beautiful person in the world.

And their personality is like trash. But this time I've actually gone for personality instead of looks. So I'm going for someone that actually gets jokes. Somebody who can hold the conversation, you can be human. Who I can bring around and everyone can have a laugh with. Go out with and feel normal, you know? I don't know, man. Love is a beautiful mess.

It's a love-hate relationship you have love. So there's a bit of promise now. There's a bit of new hope, though. Yeah, you can say that. But you're just like, you, you, you, the mention scars. You just, you're just wary about. You have to, though. You have to restrict yourself to how much you can off-knots someone about

until you feel ready to actually move forward with them. Yeah. Because if you tell someone everything in the get-go, like what we're doing here, which is nuts, I've never done this before. But just to open up someone's crazy. It's like a therapy session today. I actually needed this.

What would be the moment that you feel like you could open up to the new person? I don't know. Is it time that would sort it out or is there something that... God knows. Yeah. I've opened up someone once and to open up someone again, it's going to be very hard. Yeah. What are you, you know, what are you hopeful for for the future?

What do you think you still got to like understand about yourself? You know, do you think there's stuff that you still got to work out? stop giving more for less stop giving more for less yeah doesn't make sense because you're going to give everything to everyone and then you get nothing can return not that you need anything can return but like it's the principle of

foundation or fundamentally I'm giving you my time I'm giving you my energy I'm giving you my love what am I getting out of it nothing yeah so you're saying like you're going to choose choose where your energies go a bit more carefully Like now I've got two friends. I've got two close friends and the third one is dwelling somewhere. What's his third one? He just is roaming somewhere.

There's two close ones. What'd you look for in a friend? It sounds like obviously you are someone who you're really a friendly person. People know me but they don't know me. They know oh yeah that's that guy who does this and that but they don't actually know the person. actually know the person, don't value the time to want to know the person. So what you're saying is the two close friends do know. Yeah, yeah, I've known them for over 20 years. That's a long time, 20 years. Yeah, yeah, I've seen them go through a lot. Amazing.

It's life, isn't it? It's what makes us us. Yeah. So you're friends for 20 years with these two people. Yeah. I often think, like, good friendship should be the model for like good romantic relationships as well. Sometimes, you know, if you think like what I mean with that is like, How have you maintained such a good friendship with these people for such long time? Experiences.

They've been there for me when I was going through hell and back, and I was there for them when they're going through hell and back. And sometimes the person who you don't think you need the most is the person who you value the most. So obviously they're my best friends, and I didn't think I need them that much. And I was going through, I was going through. but in reality it was them who helped me become sane again. Love was going down a bad, bad hole. Well, after divorce?

Yeah, yeah, very bad hole. But good people bring you back to normality, you know? And sometimes you've got to step back to me forward. So it was, as a saying that we have, it's called charge it to the game, to the game of life. So if anything ever happens, say you, I don't know, you break a leg or your car brakes, down or you drop your food or whatever, just charge it to the game of life. It is why it is.

I like that. Charge it to the game. Charge it to the game, man. So let's do looking forward. What would you like to happen in your life that hasn't happened? I've got a business venture that I want to get into. It's going to take time. But time is beautiful because it's knowledge. Because you get to learn about the fundamentals of what you're going to take time. you need to learn about to make the business better, but realistically you have to live in your own means. It's fun of simple peaceful life, I'm honest with you.

Don't really ask for much. Simple, happy, peaceful life, easy. A few more peaceful Tuesdays. A lot more peaceful Tuesdays. I like that, peaceful Tuesdays. I forgot to ask, and I should have asked, about being a career. Like, what do people not know about the realities of this life? The past world?

Yeah. I wake up at 5 a.m. in the morning this is now because it's Ramadan because I'm fasting, right? So, realistically, I wake up at 6 in the morning. Yeah. I get to the depot for 7 a.m. I start loading my van in the rain like today.

And however you see the parcel is however I get the parcel. So if the parcel comes broken, it's because I've got it broken. I don't pick it up and smash it on the floor. No. For the company I work with, because I'm self-employed, I get two days off a month. So that means weekends away, all of that, you know, that you dream about, you know,

a little trip here and there, forget about it. And Christmas time, we're finishing at 10, 11 o'clock every day. And Christmas time, for example, I work six weeks without a day off. So it's a tough gig. And don't ask stupid questions. Who is it for? What's the name on the parcel? You know it's for you.

We give you a time slot of when we're coming. You get an email of when we're coming. And I'm sure you've heard my voice for the last six years. So I know you know it's me. And it stresses me out so much. Hey, I got delivery. Who is it for? I got, it's for you. Yeah, but who is it for?

I go, you saw me yesterday. You saw me day before yesterday. You're probably going to see me tomorrow. Honestly, it's the best worst job you ever have. I swear to God. Best because you get to... It's best because it's fun, man. You know, it could be your own self,

have a laugh of everyone. But also, look, it sounds like you bring as much magic as you possibly can do to it. You turn up and you smile at people and you like... Clearly people... For my own sanity. Honestly, for my own sanity.

Because if I walk around, I'm miserable, I'm going to be miserable. And people by people's energy, positive energy, brings positive life. Brings happiness, brings whatever you want. I'm going to ask you three more questions

and I'm going to leave you alone. Three. What is those beautiful sight you've seen recently just like with your own eyes like going around wherever you've been? That's something that stayed with you. Yeah, it's going to sound like something silly

right? And it's something that you see on a normal everyday basis. Just seeing people walk in their dogs or just, you know, just it's the little thing It's not about the big things. It's because the little things, the other things that make the big things. But like I'll see someone who's walking their dog, like this little wave. That means more than a lot, if that makes any sense.

It's a little, little things. That's beautiful. Like I said earlier, less is more. Yeah. What, if you could bring back one thing that you've lost, that can't be a person, what would you bring back? It's a good question. Thanks.

See, I want to say it's time, but that don't make sense. Because you can't bring back your time, it's done. I want to see my sanity. But in a lot, that's made me who I am now. I would say my trust, but it's allowed me to trust the people who I trust now and not anyone else who I don't want to trust anymore. I'll open up to you. Could be an object.

Your favourite mug? You got a favourite mug? No, I don't, actually. I should have one, though. That's alright. You answered the question quite well. It's just a complicated question. Yeah, yeah, it's a good question. What are you doing in your life when you feel most free?

Watching Arsenal play. Ah, okay. Yeah, man. Football. Football. I love my football, love my Arsenal. That's the only time where I can get away from reality. It's wins, losses, draws. I know for 90 minutes I can zone away from all my problems.

all my problems and enjoy whatever's happening. Obviously it's a rollercoast of emotions, but right now we're doing pretty well, so I can't complain, you know? Top of the league. Top of the league, right? Yeah, man, football. Like, what are you doing with Arsenal win the league? How would you celebrate? I don't know. I'll lose my head.

That'll be honest with you, but I know there's a lot. Can you put an Arsenal flag on the van? A hundred billion. I mean, I can put it out of the dashboard. No, make sure people know. I'll be walking around in my house and take your horn all through the night I live near Tottenham

yeah oh well it's it oh yes even better they're gonna love that love it love it um okay for an ultimate question

because we're in a because we are in a back of a van and sometimes I get people to look out if we're on a bench and so like you know what can we see and like

how does this make you feel but sometimes also when that is where we don't have a particularly good view or no view, then I get people to close their eyes. So we're going to close our eyes now. And I'm going to ask you to kind of like think back to a moment or room, a place in your life,

which you feel you can describe in the most detail. It could be like a mundane thing. It doesn't have to be a dramatic event. or something. Yeah, what was that? Is that right? Yeah, yeah, for someone open the door. Oh, to the front?

Oh, shit. I just had, I didn't know it. Oh yeah, yeah, but it wasn't? Yeah, no. Oh, fuck. It could have been driven off. That could be the most exciting bench moment yet. In the back of a fan of a van, just driven off.

Sorry, bud. That's alright. It's happened to me before, actually. What, so I was just trying to drive the van off while you're in it? Someone stolen the van from me. Oh, Christ. Yeah, yeah. I thought everyone's after these parcels.

right? Literally. They're valuable. Yeah, sorry, man. Yeah, sorry, right. Place in a moment. Right, so like thinking back to a scene in your life, like it's just for whatever reason you really remember that scene and that moment, just to think of what was around you in the details and describing it.

I was in Thailand in Pouquet and it was about three in the morning when I was sitting there alone on the beach and it was just absolute silent. silence and you just hear the waves, you know, and you just look around, there's no one there, and it's just peaceful. The stars were out, because the moon was shining, you can see the reflection on the waves, the water and the sea was warm, and I think it was at that point in my life, I felt at peace for the first time in, what, years. that's when I realised that my self-worth is the most important thing

because whatever's happened has happened whatever's written for me is written for me and right now I'm happy everything about that was just perfect beautiful why was it 3 a.m out of interest that I was probably licked off my head so I'm in Thailand now thinking that's what it's so to me

that's right it was perfect I love it. Fantastic. Well, look, we reached the end. Thanks for talking to me. Thank you for having me, man. This is, you know, memorable one. Back of a van.

Yeah, this is... You know? There you go. Okay, last question for you. What are you going to do next? Finish off the puzzles. That list, you've got a parcels to finish off, and then we're going to go home and break my fast.

But... Live! You know, does that make sense? Yeah. I'm gonna live. Like I'm really gonna live. I've been alive, but now I'm gonna live. I'm going to live life to the max.

Like I lived with a lot of restriction, or like a lot of barriers that I've set myself and a lot of people set on me. Right now there's no more. Now it's just going out of there, I'm taking everything and doing everything. Yeah, man. Beautiful. much for your time. Thank you for breaking up the past all time.

I mean this is part of the journey, you know. We're just going to charge it to the game. Mother knows, babe. Hostman, cowboy ties his own tie boy, bowed to die boy. Mother knows, but keep strangers as friends try to be happy to be To be on time Life is for living Or so they say I feel your breath Get away

Mother knows best Who's best Postman cowboy Ties his own tie boy About to die boy Mother knows best Being so lucky To even be a rind

the paper left wet on friends say it's hard close to the end no fear of dying i shook its hand postman cowboy ties his own tie boys mother new