Strangers on a Bench - EPISODE 90: So Glad I Didn't Hide Away

Episode Date: June 1, 2026

Tom Rosenthal approaches a stranger on a park bench and asks if he can sit down next to them and record their conversation.This is what happened! Produced by Tom RosenthalEdited by Rose De LarrabeitiMixed by Mike WoolleyTheme tune by Tom Rosenthal & Lucy Railton Incidental music by Maddie AshmanEnd song : 'Pyrrhula pyrrhula' by Him Gone ApeStream it here : https://ffm.to/pyrrhulapyrrhulaListen to all the end songs featured on the podcast (so far) on one handy playlist :https://ffm.to/soabendsongs————————————————————————————Instagram : @strangersonabench Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello. So it to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a bench where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a go? So you've already heard two episodes. Do you remember? They were great. One was about throwing the mobile in the pond. That was the second one. And the first one was The guy, he'd been to prison. Yeah, and that was brilliant. So you're two down?

I am. Many, many more to go. And here we are. Here we are. That's so strange. Can we say where we are? We're allowed to say where we are? Yeah, why not?

We're in Lewis. On a bridge that I don't know the name of nor the river we're over. No. You know the name of the river? I should probably know that, but no, I can't remember. But it's a good spot? It's a lovely spot, yeah. That's why I chose the bench.

The reason I'm here is because, jury service. See, that's the first. 300 plus down. Yeah. Not at anyone on jury service. Yeah. At that moment.

And I haven't been picked, so that's why I've got a moment to sit here and I brought my workbook along and just come out and thought I'll have a moment. Not much of a moment. No, another moment. Well, I had had a moment before, so that's all right.

Do you know why they'd pick certain people or not another? All random. So there's a certain amount of you that go in and then your names are all on cards. And then they pick 12. Were you very excited to get the call? It was interesting.

It's actually the second time. So I was surprised to get it, again, I suppose, in a way because you think, what are the chances? But it's just random. I've not had it once. No, and lots of people won't, will they? But, yeah. I should say something kind of come and get me clean to the authorities.

I don't know who won. Civic duty. Civic duty, absolutely. Funny word civic duty. I don't quite know what other things count as civil duty. No, what else comes under that? It's kind of not committing a crime, it's just not pushing someone over on the street. We need to do it, you know what is it? Waving, we should look that up,

say a good morning to people. Yeah, we should look it up and see what comes under civic duty, shouldn't we? But it's one of those rare ones which is just like definitively due service is civic duty. You know that, don't you? Yeah. So you've listed two of these programs, do you remember how they start? Yes, I think so. You ask about the favourite day of the week. Yeah, there you go.

Yeah! I don't even need to be here. I'll show myself out. What would he ask next? Well, you'd ask me, actually quite a mystery idea. I've yet to do that. Leave someone on a bench.

You just talk as all you can. I've got to go. You know what, now we've said that, maybe, you know, if we're happy enough in a certain amount of time, if I'll leave you three minutes. Does this see what happens? That would be a first.

I feel like once you want to roll with first, you should just go with the flow first. Yeah, yeah. Have you had any first recently? I did play pickleball recently. first time. Is that the Tennessee one? Yeah, I wasn't sure which was which.

There's a few now. Yeah, there are. Paddle and Pickleball. I wasn't sure which was which. It was really good, really enjoyed it. Why did you do it? My friend and I were away. We're in Northumberland.

He's staying in the countryside in a lovely tree house that we've stayed in before, very contemporary tree house. And they've got tennis court there. In the treehouse? Just outside of the grounds. Do you get your treehouse moment?

At the same time, you're pickleball. Yeah. It's lovely, actually. It just works really well on trust, and they've got an old red telephone box in the ground, and that's where they store all the tennis rackets and everything. That's what they're used for now. Yeah, exactly.

They found a real good use for it, yeah. More games, eh? Yeah, more games. It was fun. They feel good, don't they, the games? Yeah, they do. I've got a good game story for the day where I'm quite a ping pong fan. I like ping pong.

I'm not brilliant at it, but it's just such a lovely thing to do. And I play with my friend Sid. We went where we normally would play. It's next to a college. And it was incredibly windy. The first thought was like, oh, well, that's just not going to work. And the second thought was, you know what, let's just try. Let's just try.

How was it? And it was just so funny. Obviously, it was ridiculous. You're competing against the weird, you know, you start, you touch it slightly. And the ball just flies and mild. And he's like, well, this is completely ridiculous. there was one end we couldn't win from. I'm sure.

And so it's just, but there was a magic. Actually, I was realised, and half of it was just playing in the first base and just getting involved with the silliness. Which is good fun. And that's, yeah, it's what we both needed. We've been really busy at work. And I actually said that at the time when I was playing with my friend. I said, we're having some of that fun that we said we both needed, aren't we?

It was really like a moment thinking, really enjoying this. It's really fun. I was going to ask when you mentioned the red telephone box. Yeah. Do you remember in your past the most important call, or at least memorable, one you can remember even, from a telephone. It's from a red telephone box.

It's see, does it seem, it's so funny how very quickly the thought of diving into this red box to communicate with someone seems absolutely mad. It seems like something from like 500 years ago. Exactly. When actually it was like, what, 20 years ago, 25. Yeah, I mean, it is from another era. I was going to go into the red box and then you'll be able to call someone.

Didn't the red box? What's wrong with it? Where's the thing in my pocket? Funny. I do remember ringing somebody I'd met on holiday when I was only 17. I met this boy, his Dutch boy. And I remember ringing him from a red telephone box. To arrange to go over and see him actually.

Which is quite something to do at that age, really. And I went, yeah, I ended up going over and had a great time. It all started in the box. It all started in the box. Just hearing that story, sounds like it's not fathomable that you could actually make arrangements from the box. It almost like the spring, it's almost like that's not right. That's how you did it.

Or you did it from your home phone, but you wanted some privacy. That's why I think important one spring to mind are ones, like that but you thought, I just need a bit of privacy from parents. Although you would have had a bit of a time limit, I'm guessing that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because obviously you're putting the coins in. That's very true. Do you remember the Pips going and having to quickly get some more in or say goodbye quickly?

Remember the PIP? You're not old enough for that. Of course, I remember the Pips. But it's funny to think that such, again, an absolutely mad idea that you have to cram this communication in such a short space of time. Yeah. Don't you think it's funny though as well that now, I don't know, it might not happen with you, but calling was the only way, so that's what you did.

You called your friends. And now there's less of that. I speak to my friends barely ever on the phone now. And I think that's a bit sad, you know, because there's texts are not the same, are they? You can let somebody know you're thinking about them, you know, in a quick way. But I think you lose something. It almost feels like an intrusion now to ring somebody, doesn't it?

That's so right. What we're scared of? It's a great question. I think maybe there's a lot of options that allow us to do stuff in our own time. But it seems like, you know, without kind of bothering another. For instance, like the voice note, obviously, it's going more and more popular. That, say, would naturally take the place of a phone call. It's convenient to me I'd do it.

And then obviously something there is a bridge lacking, clearly in that. It's a bit of a loss of intimacy, I think, isn't it? Oh, definitely. It's a, you know, I'm not, you know, there are some lovely things. about a voice note. You know, it's prefer for a text for some people. It does the job in some situations. But again, there's no dynamic. No. I think back to, you know, you and that telephone about calling the sweet Dutch. Dutch lad. When you're in that box, and I'm thinking now about some of the phone calls I made, you know, it's kind of scary, I suppose. There's a real vulnerability

to, you know, you pick up the very call for someone. You don't know what situation they're going to find them in. You know you're going to be interrupting something. Then obviously, where you, calling house phones, you know, you might have got someone's parent or whatever it's around. To navigate all that. You know, so it's like, there was like a sense of trepidation in making these phone calls. But then I suppose also nowadays, because it is so much more just successful, you know, successful not to do it, then it's like there's less why give yourself the fear while, just do this.

It is. I think that's exactly what it is. I think we're afraid of the rejection, aren't we? And we feel like we're intruding and therefore do we put ourselves in that position where somebody hasn't possibly got time and I don't think we think consciously of it as a rejection but I think that's probably what's under it, that's vulnerability isn't it?

When was the last time you go rejected? Or felt rejected? That's a good question. Oh, felt rejected. I mean, I can be easily hurt anyway. I can feel if you feel like somebody's not listening very well.

Active listening takes a lot, doesn't it? You know, and we're not busy lives and we're always present. So I think I can feel hurt that way. Yeah, but can I think of something that's recent where I felt rejected. Maybe you're not putting yourself out there enough? Maybe.

More phone calls, you know? Yeah. There is that, isn't there? What are you not taking up because you're a little bit afraid? It's a good question. You really made me think. Yeah, because there's feeling

little bits of rejection because somebody hasn't heard you. That's just normal, isn't it? And I'm very sensitive to that. Who is this person that's not listening to? Let's go over there. No. I think in my past...

Yeah. Who would you... Because a child growing up, I think, family, you know. Who was the key person you think did not simply listen enough to you? My mum. That's evoked a little bit of an emotional response, isn't it? Yeah, that's something I'm working through, but it's not huge. Nothing big happened, but it's just something I've realised perhaps just, yeah, I didn't get enough of that perhaps.

You know, nothing intentional. It should be really hurt. I'm sure if she thought, I didn't feel I got enough of that perhaps. But clearly, at the same time, that can still have a bit of an impact, can't it? What were you trying to say to her that she wasn't? and perceiving? I think overall it was possibly just about just taking notice of

might not be so much that I was saying things that weren't heard, although I can remember instances of somebody thought, her mum and pops responding in a way that sounds like she's listening and then you know she hasn't because of what happens after. But I think overall what I've got to get into the bottom of is that perhaps I wasn't asked enough questions

about interest wasn't taken in what I was doing maybe so therefore you think you learn not to bring things up because you can feel that somebody else's needs and interests or sort of taking precedence you know

so to not get rejected or to feel rejected you sort of just go along with their topic of conversation and keep yourself just in the good books and... Is she with us or not? Yes, she still is with us, yeah, she is.

Yeah, she is. Yeah. She's in the early stages of dementia at the moment as well, so. But only very early. So sometimes you wouldn't know. Yeah. Do you think it's possible to get any... Anything from her now that you would want? Or is it too much?

Yeah. It's interesting, I talked with a therapist a while ago now before I had dementia. And they made the decision that actually bringing it up in any big way, probably would have done more harm, I think. Yeah, yeah. So just trying to understand why I feel like that and take responsibility for then how I show up and what positions I put myself in.

I suppose boundaries, talking boundaries, just some extent. aren't you in how much time you spend, what you share. Yeah, work in progress still. What has she done well, Mother? I mean, what do you have to thank her for? She's so smile friendly, friendly, getting on with people, you know, out and about. She's very much in the moment, my mum. So she wasn't restricted by things, oh, there won't be enough time for that, you know.

Let's maybe just go and do that. So there was some really good points that way as a kid we probably benefited from not too rigid. She loved fashion and clothes. We had a good bond over that. That's always been a place where we've been able to spend time together shopping. So just taking what you said there and what you said previously, she's very present person. Very lives in the moment. And maybe you wanted to process some things or think about stuff that's already happened or kind of.

And she just obviously was just, if you're that present or not wanting to think about things. I think, I think if I'm, I think if, I think there was a little bit of perhaps chaos, perhaps not chaos, it's too, maybe strong a word, but where there weren't the boundaries for, you know, we can try this, we can, you know, we can go and let's do that. And it also didn't sometimes create some of those realistic and safety sort of boundaries that you needed as. well you know do you have any idea about why if her being so present was more of a something that wasn't her first choice say something that she just had to be because she didn't want to be the other or didn't want to reflect too much on whatever she would be

be reflecting on can you think about what that would have been would she have been would she have been trying to avoid that i i'm not sure i feel more like her A bandwidth has just taken up with what's happening in the moment. There's a lot to attend to whether now, she would be diagnosed with ADD or ADHD. I don't know. I mean, you know, speculate just because I've come across a lot of that through, you know, my work. And I do think just attending to what was happening in the moment took a lot.

Therefore to stop and think, right, do we need to reflect? Do we need to process just not so much in her nature? I think she actually shared with us that she didn't always feel as a child getting into trouble for this very thing, like because she was a bit, you know, a bit sort of, oh, you know, looking at the clouds and looking at this and looking at that. And it was pay attention from a mum and others.

Pay attention to this, what you do. So I think, you know, she probably... It's just the way she is. Yeah, it's just the way she is. Hence why feeling that you've slightly suffered because of that It's hard because she is how she is And I think what I've had to be okay with Is that those two things can happen at the same time

She was doing her best and didn't mean anything And it can still affect you Because as children, you know, you're very formative And we're all limited in some way Oh, exactly We've all got these blind spots that we just can't cover You know, matter how much someone may say What have you thought about this?

Can you not do more of this? and sometimes we just don't have it in us. No. And we're of a different generation. You know, I'm really interested in growth and trying to understand, you know, formative experiences and how that affects in a positive and less positive ways. And everybody is affected by their childhood

in positive and lesser because nobody can get everything right. We are complex creatures. But also, you know, there's openness, to that isn't there to reflecting and getting you know therapy and if you're interested to try to find your blind spots and you know i'm really interested in that but that wasn't something previous generations had so much access to or thought about and it's it's different if if you didn't get quite what you were looking for from your mum you know who is kind of the one who who who who's who who who's who who who's who who's who who's who who's who's who There are definitely some experiences I remember of adults,

either as a child or as a young, you know, sort of teenager, young adult where somebody took an interest in me. And that was, that was, it stood out to me. And I really remember our lovely next door neighbours. I was often in the garden and I was flipping myself about. I was into gymnastics for a long time when I was young. On a travel leaf? No, on.

Oh, just on the grass? Yeah, so gymnastics, proper sort of, you know, artistic gymnastics. I used to go to a club. Anything for a softer landing or just the grass? Just the grass, yeah. You do backflips and stuff? Yeah, I used to do backflips and somersaults at one point, back somersaults at one point. Whoa.

Still got it in you? No, but last week when I was in Northumberland, I did do a cartwheel on the beach and a handstand it. In fact, I did two or three cartwheels on the beach. Because I just could still, I thought a big open space. I just thought, I've got to just do it and try. And you could, you still could. And I didn't pull anything, which is a great thing.

Because sometimes when you try. More carwheeling. Yeah, absolutely, especially because I didn't pull anything. Obviously the Pilates and the stuff I'm doing, paying off. But yeah, I remember next your neighbours just really taking an interest in what I was doing. And I just wasn't used to that, you know, just. wasn't used to it. It was lovely and I remember thinking ooh, yeah, and then

other times, I suppose a couple of times with other adults just, well I was in I went to, I worked in insurance the first few years after coming out of school I'm dossed about in A levels I was really lost my way, I was too busy With a Dutch boy. With the Dutch boy. Was the Dutch boy and then other boys? Yeah it was

definitely, it didn't happen after that. I mean, to be fair to you, it's an entirely you know, I think, reasonable choice. I mean, what's more exciting than romance? Exactly, and it was just at that time, I just wasn't ready. I wasn't mature enough at that point to apply myself. So I went to work.

But then I'd sort of, I'd had this thought about, because I'd had some work experience through, I can't remember what year in school, but we did some work experience and I went to work in primary schools. And I enjoyed it so much for the half term, I asked if I could do it again the next half term. So I think that sort of lodged somewhere, not at the time. So when I was working in insurance anyway, I decided I was going to pursue this and go to uni to teach. And I remember getting some help from somebody that was actually temping at the insurance company. And she happened to have been a friend of the family years ago.

I'd known her daughters. And she was really helpful because she'd gone and done some further education herself. herself, I think, later on. And she offered to put me in touch with somebody. Primary school head that she knew, try and get me in there, her lecturer that she'd had, which must have been through uni,

to look at my application and everything. And that really sticks with me, that, you know, she didn't have to do any of that. And she took notice of something that I wanted to do just through talking and helped me. And it was really lovely. So there have been those lovely formative people along the way.

This might be an overreach, but I say anyway, and you can tell me if it's just being any sense. If mother's not giving you enough acknowledgement, do you think at all you sort that in those early romances? Do you think that propelled you towards those more? Could easily have done. Seems to make sense. Absolutely. You're not getting something. So when you get some attention from elsewhere.

So we heard is so important, really, isn't it? I would say it's like it's a central tenet of laugh really, no? completely and yeah I think making those connections where you can which takes us on to how I ended up down here in this in the south really so now I'm living down in the south coast with with what do we what do we call her call her my best friend probably morphed now into calling ourselves partners because we saw something in each other and just had such a connection and we even think quite a lot of that is because of being felt to be seen and understood by each other on a really like amazing level

I'm so lucky yeah I've got lots of questions for you but how did you meet this person Yeah, through work, so through teaching, the same school. We just got on. But very quickly there was just an, like almost a need to be together. It was really quite something. But at the same time, it wasn't about attraction in a way that you would, like, you know, been attracted to, you know, boys and met and men, but there's just that need to be together.

We changed our lives because of it. We were both in long-standing relationships. Came out of those and... It's amazing. It is amazing. It is amazing. Very beautiful. Could I ask how old you both were when you met?

Yes. So, how old. was I 13, yeah, 32. She was a little bit younger, just to be 30, I think, yeah, 30 and 32. And you had been in both in Long Terrelations. Yeah, roughly how long?

So six years married for some of that. And similarly, she'd been with her partner, you know, living together for quite a number of years as well. So, I mean, you look back and you're still very young and I've always felt this, that I've come quite late to things. So you look back in it, gosh, we were very young, really. A complicated question for you.

Did meeting your partner, can we call a partner? Yeah, let's do that. Did she make you aware that what you had had so far wasn't meeting something, or was she an entirely other proposition that took you away from that? That's a really good question. And I think it's a bit of both. I'd never felt seen and understood and loved anyway in the way that I do with her.

So that was different. It wasn't like there was loads wrong in my relationship that I was in. You know, there was compromises that I was possibly making, compromises that you make in a marriage and perhaps some of that is going around his needs. more than mine sometimes but you know not nothing major it just came to there being no question that this is this is who I need to be with the love and the

care and the just the just the understanding that we've got and the the ease of being together and you know that was definitely definitely different not like what I was in was bad in any way it wasn't which was you know that's hard in itself the way you described your part initially, like, well, I met this person. Sounds like, you know, a light came on from somewhere. You described it initially as like an amazing friend. Then you say, well, that actually really is a partner.

You know, there was no particularly, like, sexual, romantic, whatever you'll call it, like that, just purely just based on a kindred of spirit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Can you explain without prying too much? Did you kind of grow into that side eventually, or how did that work? Or maybe you haven't for all right now. you haven't for all I know you could just be completely platonic friends living together

which would also be completely fine. Absolutely we are and that's what we are. Yeah. Which is why we now use the term partner. Yeah. But it's felt strange saying that because it's not that sort of romantic and you know sexual relationship. It seems

different but you know come into the modern world. Here we are. But yeah. So again stop me if any of these questions are too invasive of nature. But there hasn't been, there's never been a romantic element to this. I suppose it's what you call romantic, isn't it?

It's hard to, hard to, but yeah, yeah, if you're talking physical and such, it's not, and we're not talking that, you know, that relationship, no, it's just, yeah, I mean, I suppose it's, it's that need to. Do you share a bed? No. No. And have, have you ever? No, not in there, you know, other than just at easeful.

So I would say that. Yeah. Yeah, no, we have, no, no. This is why it's always been hard to categorise, you know, for people. Because, and now somebody would say, you're, yeah, your, people wouldn't want to label you as you're as you're as sexual or your whatever, you know, and it's not always as simple as it. I mean, the thing about labels is you could have a million of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It doesn't mean you're going to, you can capture anything.

Yeah. You know, the dynamic of two humans is always, always, always unique. Yeah. You know, there will be people out there who have had a similar situation to you who probably, because of the fact it doesn't fit into certain labels, have stressed about it. Yeah, yeah. And maybe not gone through with what feels right. Yeah, yeah, yes.

Because they're like, well, how do I explain this to Uncle Philip at Christmas? Yeah, absolutely. How am I going to say, well, I can't really. So maybe, you know. And put people off, absolutely, because it's not neatly categorised. When I hear that, I think what a beautiful sounding thing. It is really interesting, isn't it? And sometimes a lot is put around that sexual relationship anyway, isn't there?

But then also wider than that, you know, a lot of listening to Estée Perel. She's a brilliant psychopathist, isn't she? And she's done a lot of work on couples and intimacy. And her definition of intimacy is just so much wider, you know, and the erotic as well. The way she talks about eroticism, she talks about that through the art and everything, not just sex. So, I mean, I think everybody thinks of intimacy

has to lead to sex, you know? Certainly what my partner and I have got is a really intimate relationship. And that intimacy is about being able to be your full self. And that's really special. Yeah. I've got one more annoying, slightly the basic question. Related to this.

since living with this, but have you sought anything physical elsewhere? Or is it just not, have you not been the desire? It's just, it's really funny because in the early days, that was really sort of complicated, because obviously the attractions to men still was there. And also in the early days, I'd always thought I'd have children. and my partner also always envisges herself

with children as well so that was something to navigate there was that initial what's going to happen there and there were definitely little bits of horridging into you know being interested in

other people but you know what happened was that we just that felt like a betrayal are the one of us, you know, because I think because we know that we needed to be life partners. And I know lots of people will have open relationships where they can have sex with other people. And if that had been a real issue for either of us, we would have had to have navigated that. But I think just the desire wasn't there enough to make that happen. And now how many years has it been to get?

Lots now. Where are we? 23 years. 23 years. Yeah. Wow. Can you remember a first moment where it really clicked with her? This is more than... Is it more than just your average? Yeah, absolutely.

Because we'd done some things as a group going out together and we'd been away for some weekends as a group of people at work. It's very sociable. But we'd spent a lot of that. that time together, you know, it was staying over on a couple of places, so shared the room together and we just stayed up talking all night. But at that point, that was just still very just, it was a great friend, I've got an extra great friend in my life. And then it just felt more exciting to be able to get that time together or go, I remember as going out one night, midweek.

It went out where I lived and came and stayed over. And so a couple of those things sort of happened. and then the summer holidays came from school and work. And I remember driving over to a hospital appointment with my husband at time he was driving. And song came on the radio. And it really got me and made me think of her. Her. And it really, I thought, ooh, that's a bit different.

That's a longing. Gosh, okay. The power of a song to kind of unite you with that feeling. I've got to ask what the song. Yeah, and I'm not. I know. I do because I've obviously heard it since. Can we think?

I'm so terrible at remembering names of things as well. Was it a female voice? It was a female voice, yes. We've narrowed it down. Yes, yes. under the year, which year was it? Was it kind of, was it acousticy? Was it rocky?

Was it poppy? It wasn't poppy. It was definitely a bit more, um, it's slower. A bit more of a, you know, a bit more of one of those heart-strungy ones. Fantastic. Yeah. But that's beautiful. In that moment, you're like, oh, hang on.

This is a, this is a funny moment. This is a different kind of feelings of what I just thought I would feel. Yeah. Yeah. And then we've got summer plans, went away on holiday and just, yeah, really missing her, missing her and needing to be in touch. There was definitely that need to be together then. That was when it was all, this is differently different.

Another big question for you coming up. What has having your kind of needs met by someone? If we can say that, or having your, you know, or to put it to be being understood. What has that allowed you to do in your life since? Um, it helps me do. It's helped me, it's helped me grow. So I think it's doesn't help me grow as a person. I mean, I've learned a lot from just being with, with her because she's such a very, He's a very good person, so it's open to, you know, her viewpoints on things,

and she's very socially sort of very aware. And I think it's just a bit overall, but it's just allowed me to be more comfortable with being myself. It allowed me to relax and be myself fully. Without having to sort of think, how am I being interpreted, you know, what people thinking of me. I don't think that with her at all, you know. But I think to be able to be our full selves is really important. And I can recognise, especially through some help with therapy and everything, that I'm not always.

Yeah, so she probably gets some of those bits that are more real. There's a wonderful quote from when I was 18. My father gave me a book by Joseph Campbell, Australian philosopher-writory guy. And a few quotes that dozer out here and there. One of which is to stay with me is, the privilege of a lifetime is being who you are. But that is that is that, isn't it?

I think that's what we all kind of really work towards. What is there really to strive for beyond that? Like it's just, it's just the magic really. It's just the key thing. And it sounds so simple, doesn't it? Be who you are? We were all the hard as to who we are. But actually, I didn't realise I wasn't being.

It's actually really complicated. It's really complex. It's really complex. I think even realizing that that is a thing that maybe we aren't being is huge. Completely. And that's the, it says a lot about the world we live in, but also just, you know, general Western society is the whole thing, that so many things take us away from that.

And we've got to like, it's such a battle to be that, you know. the whole thing about labels is one of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, being forced to do things at school you might want to do. I mean, you know, do master this because you just have to, why I don't like you, where you're doing it. Yeah. Your parents saying, well, I'm not sure this, but maybe you should be doing this instead.

Or, you know, there's so many hurdles. It's not like it's just one coming at you. No. So many forces that want you to be over here instead of over there. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And then to kind of, and it is such a battle. And it's so easy to lose that battle. It completely, you don't realize you've been fitting in.

Yeah. Do we all get to recognise that in our lives? I mean, on that theme of like daring to be yourself, I mean, part of the initial, oh my goodness, like, it's just a stranger on the bench. My temptation was to not do this because I've spent quite, a lot of time not sharing openly, who I am in case I'm judged, without me even realising I'm doing that.

But that was a moment there where I thought, what are you hiding from? You've listened to two of these and found them fascinating, and those people put themselves out there. Why do you think you're going to be judged anymore? I didn't have time to process all of that, but do you know what I'm doing it out? I said yes, yes, exactly. I was so scared of like things being found out and I don't even mean bad things, just my thoughts.

So I had kept diaries when I was younger, probably the sort of the age from 14 up to 17 Dutch guy, whatever. And I got rid of them all about that age because I was just too worried about anybody coming across anything. And I don't think I'd probably put things in here. This is another layer to it. I put things in code, I think, to some extent. stay in the diaries but I'd even putting things down on paper

I found really hard and once I'd done that and I already had revealed bits about myself I thought no that's got to go and that's that's about stage of just not feeling that you're valid as who you are isn't it just help me make that connection

I just yeah with this podcast people comment. You know, you can make comments on different places. And one of the comments fairly recently said what this podcast has made me realize that if you listen to someone for long enough, you basically can't help but love them. Do you know? As in any of if you, if you spend enough time with someone in a meaningful way, you'll understand why it is they are the way they are. Yes, exactly. Yeah, the more I talk to people, I made aware of that.

We're all connected that way. We started off talking about phones, didn't we, and being separated by not enough connection that way. I think there are not enough connections often. It's so easy to judge, isn't it, from afar? And you get to know somebody like you've just said. I recognise we're all just people. And there are some really, you know,

I'm also very drawn to, as I go on with this project, almost like chucking in some really complex characters. And, you know, let's give them the time to explain it all. Absolutely. And talk about their parents where they've come from, decisions they've had the things, the traumas that have been thrust upon them. And then let's understand all the things they've done in context. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

In context. Everything is context, you know. It really is. That's so important. So really, if this whole project has been about anything, it's like, you know, Can we know people better? Can we give people a bit more time? Yeah.

And to be fair to like everybody, really, it's the structure of society that doesn't allow for the time of that. That's not the individual's fault. You know, we think we're doing it well, we're just not. No, we're not. Capitalism, just, you know, and that drive for like everybody's going to be in work

and everybody's got to be everybody busy and, you know, just all these things that are constructed just to keep us away from. each of the amount of hours we have to put into working and then recovery from the work who's going to have a time to go and talk to anybody at a bench it's it's a it's mind-blowing that it is a luxury but yeah when we started off saying that actually to be seen and understood and heard is it's fundamentally what we need isn't it as a human so therefore why don't we see having time to spend talking and be and properly

active listening with people as a past time that we should invest in. I really think for me it's like the the most obvious change you know as we've discussed like the first thing people need more time. Yeah. We've been able to have a lovely chat this afternoon because we both weirdly have time. Yeah very unusual. You could have easily been called you know your name chosen that's gone. I'm I'm talking to someone completely different today and it's not the same conversation. Yeah. And I'm very very lucky to have time as well. But yeah, the obvious thing that needs to happen is it's a four-day week.

Right? Absolutely. It just seems like so incredibly sensible. The difference between a 5-2 and a 4-3. 4-3 sounds like almost like a balance. Yeah, it does. It does. It does.

It does. Five people playing on a football team and two people on the side. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not a great balance. Who's going to win? Yeah. And when they've done studies on that, I think I'm right in saying that they've made people more productive in the time that they're they're there, aren't there? Because you are so glad you have got more balance.

Yeah. Without being too, I don't even know if it's a qualified kind of conspiracy theory thought, but if indeed productivity is on part with a four-day week, they're like, what is it to be scared of? Yeah. And then you actually start thinking, well, are governments stressed about the idea of people having time? Because if you have time, you have ideas. Revolution.

Yeah, you have ideas. You make a revolution. You start thinking. Well, that's it. You start realising stuff, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You start having conversations. We have conversations.

You start thinking, God, these people aren't the enemy. They're just like, they're just like me and you. Or like we've been made for this and this and this about so-so and so-so. It's mad, isn't it? It's absolutely mad, wild. It is a mad world. When you've got time to stop and think, it really is. On this bridge, we don't know the name of it?

They should name it after us. Congratulations. Sometimes I've got a good 20 minutes in without asking the first question. I actually haven't asked it and you haven't answered it. So I thought just to have that for those people who may be stressing going, she never answered the first question. I don't know how many of those people are there. But maybe also I'm one of them.

I'm also kind of looping back around. Could be, but you know, stick with it. Before I answer this question, I just need to have some jelly babies. My blood, my blood, my blood should. not had anything to eat. Oh, no. Do a biscuit? Oh, I would take a biscuit.

Yeah, I'm going to have this and also going to have that. Yeah, absolutely do. I'm type one diabetic, so I have my blood sugar. My blood sugar is. Mmm. I start going a bit of funny. See what the time is. We're OK.

Oh, it's half four. I'm meeting my friend at quarter. How have we got? Went to be meeting it. Oh, my goodness. Is it quarter past five? So it's half four now. get to

get to... Oh God, have you got to get somewhere? Yeah, but I can put it a bit later. I can do it later. We can raise through these four last... I can't open this. I can't open this Amaretti.

God, that time has just whizzed. That's amazing and that's because it's good... That's because it's good, proper in the moment together. In the early years world, in the reception age, you know, that I teach,

my whole background is in that. It's called sustain. shared thinking when you're really properly in something together and you're solving something through your thoughts really properly shared rather than just about waiting for your turn and not listening and not building on isn't it you know and yeah that we've been in that totally oh I've got I could have offered you an orange as well I've got I've got a ton of it the biscuit's perfect you and welcome to the orange as well if you need it yeah but I'm worried about you now because you've just told me your blood sugar level is low. Do you need to check

anything? No, no, I have. It's on my wrist so I can see. It's absolutely fun. Okay. Anyway, right. First, yeah, favorite day of the week, just for the completionist. Yeah, I'm for the completionist. Friday, because I've always worked full time, so last day of work and that's all that potential of the time off ahead of you. And it's often, sometimes where the magic happens in work, because people's shoulders go down a little bit, people are a bit nicer to each other. you relax a little bit more, certainly in the classroom sometimes that used to happen. My colleague and I that talk really closely together, we've noticed sometimes magical things would happen on a Friday and we think, well, is it because we live slightly more relaxed.

I don't know, more present more in the moment, but Fridays have always been a good day working-wise and then Saturday, because then Saturday you've got the whole of the weekend to go. I quite like those answers because they... almost like reinforce everything you've kind of said about society and the time and yeah yeah totally has to be Saturday but it's like you've been told it's Saturday basically that's when I can connect with all the people I want to connect with and I'm not bound by all of this work

so you're allowed to do it yeah yeah I mean that is another thing we haven't done we've completely circumvented your whole kind of teaching life which I think is like obviously an incredible beautiful profession it's always been, it's always been, like, little. Yeah, so, yeah, so I trained for primary, but I've always, I always taught, in all the different schools, I taught reception all year one and two, but really reception mainly,

in year one and two for only one year. So I just sort of became a bit of a specialist within that. And then when I came out of teaching to do my advisory role, which I'm doing now, it was always around really young kids and they're just great. They're just great. I mean, they're just sponges and they're just there themselves,

generally, more so at that age. It's a pleasure to work with. Because I haven't got much time. I'd normally ask a few questions before we get to this kind of question, but can you think of a moment of teaching that kind of defines why it is so important to you or what?

Yeah, I mean, I can think of one little girl, one of many, hopefully, but it's so important to get to know them as real individuals. And just being able to do say the right thing at the right time that helps them have that trust in you. And you see a bit of a breakthrough in some learning. And I can really remember that with this little girl. She wouldn't always say a lot. Just by spending a little bit of time with her around something that she has been interested

and having taken an interest, something she's been doing at home, something that was pertinent to her. She then later on, not long after, was with me, sitting beside me and then started to write all of this sort of stuff down in the very early years and sort of way. But she presented this sort of writing,

this emergent writing, which is such an important stage for them when they're at age, to recognise that you can put something down, that you want to communicate on paper is huge. And all of these sort of bits came out and she shared with me what that meant and what it was saying.

And it was lovely. And it completely linked back to the little bit of time that we had earlier in that day, earlier in that afternoon, even a morning, that she'd obviously felt that trust enough to then come and be, you know, take that risk and do that with me. And it was really wonderful because it was the gateway for her to sort of start, you know, putting her thoughts down.

And it just emphasised how precious it is to spend that time. I mean, gosh, that's just what we've been talking about. Spend that time with, we've done a one-to-one. You get to know what makes them tick. Yeah, there's lots of lovely moments. I'm a man of my word we said it earlier and I want to do it because I've never done it before

I am going to leave you for how long do you want am I just going to be talking you know you can kind of reflect on what it's been like for you or anything you want I don't want absolutely yeah so I'll leave you I'll give you a couple of minutes yeah yeah okay

are you okay with my bag? Yeah yeah of course yeah Okay, see in two, three minutes. Yeah, see in three minutes. So I've just left her and walking down the street and I see what she says. I'm obviously not going to know what she says until later. Well, that was amazingly interesting.

Who would have predicted that my day would end up like this? I'm blown away. Because I've just been listening to this podcast for the first time this week. having read an article about it in the paper, and then to be approached to be the stranger on the bench. Amazing. And it's just been so rich to have that time

to have a conversation with a stranger and to be tuned into, if I'm honest, you know, like that. That's really special talking and listening to each other. And perhaps some of the things that we talked about, maybe my show why I found it so valuable. So thank you. I really enjoyed it. And I'm so glad I was on this bench

and took the plunge to do it and didn't hide away, which is possibly a tendency. My day certainly turned out differently. And I'm so glad it did. Okay, I'm going to go back to her now and see if she is still there. Back I go.

I can't wait to tell my part how my day turned out. I'm back. I've returned. Thanks for coming back. How did you get on? Well, I just, we just talk. Whatever you did, imagine, I'm sure. Processing some of it, I think.

Great. This podcast is maybe just doing this, if you have, like, any idea that can be done, you should do it. Yeah. If it comes up as a kind of like, see the silly thing, if it's possible to try it. Absolutely.

Have the fun. Take it while it's there. It's a lesson for all of us, isn't it really? I think there's room for a bit more of that in my life, definitely. Okay, we've probably reached the end. And there's one final question.

Okay. The last question is, what are you going to do next? What am I going to do next? The one I'm going to do next right now is go and drive to see you my friend, which would be lovely. And yeah, then,

looking to certainly retiring out of full-time work at some point, but whether that means I do go down another avenue and do some other work or whether I come out of it completely and just decide what I want to do and maybe go back to doing something else later. I don't know. It definitely feels like I'm a bit of a junction that I'm itching to do something else. The itchy junction? Now I was going to go there, no more of that.

Let's not call the bridge this. We're thinking about names. No, not a good name. Everyone comes here when they're in a structure of their lives to sit and ponder to itch. Should I ask a passing person if they know the name of this? I know the bridge, yeah.

Hi there, sorry to bother you. Do you know the name of this bridge? Has it got a name? Has it got a name? Cliff Bridge, isn't it? Cliff Bridge, you think? It's it? We should know the body of water?

Yeah, the river. Oh, there's a owing. Oh, there is it? Oh yeah, we've heard of these. River, River, River. River. River, River. And you think it's Cliff Bridge?

This is Cliff Bridge. Oh, you see. Because it's only a little one. Maybe it doesn't have a name. We're hoping it's that name. So you can name after it. Google Maps doesn't name it. Oh, there we go.

There we go. It's coming. It's coming. Lovely. Thank you very much. We're over the ewes. Over the ewes. There we go.

That's a nice word, isn't it? Ouse. Well, good luck with all this, all this jocity business. Thank you very much. I've really enjoyed talking this afternoon. It's flown by. Thank the justice system as well. Absolutely. I will when I go in tomorrow or whenever I get the next. The person who pulled the cards out. Yeah, I'm really, really glad they didn't pull them. Oh, I know you're out. And yeah, good luck.

Yeah, thank you. And good luck with keeping doing this. And I just can't believe that that's happened today. It's just amazing Timing is everything Isn't it? It really is I feel so seen and understood