Strangers on a Bench - EPISODE 97: Seeing Stars in Sea Glass

Episode Date: July 20, 2026

Tom Rosenthal approaches a stranger on a park bench and asks if he can sit down next to them and record their conversation.This is what happened! Produced by Tom RosenthalEdited by Rose De LarrabeitiMixed by Mike WoolleyTheme tune by Tom Rosenthal & Lucy Railton Incidental music by Maddie AshmanEnd song : 'Rainbow of The Night' by Bethany Reeves & The Solis ChoirStream it here : https://ffm.to/rainbowofthenightListen to all the end songs featured on the podcast (so far) on one handy playlist :https://ffm.to/soabendsongs————————————————————————————Instagram : @strangersonabench Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, so it to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? It is really. I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench, where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a go? What's a chance meeting, eh?

Pure chance. There's a lot of chance in this. Oh, I lost a lot of chance of life in general. This is so true. Should I tell you why I chose here over somewhere else? I was taking the Newcastle Metro for the first time. Right.

And there were two platforms either side and I was going to go to South Shields. I still might. But the train was delayed for about like 20 minutes. I thought maybe that's a sign. I saw that Whitney Bay was on the other side and that was coming in kind of three minutes. So go for that instead.

Yeah, you've still got plenty of time. If you've got the rest of the day, it can still go to South Shields. Go to the whole package. You're feeling good? Yeah. Delightful. Delightful indeed.

The first question is, do you have a favourite day of the week? Probably Friday because, you know, that's when the weekend starts. So I'm sitting here today and I'm thinking, oh, Friday tomorrow, we've got a long weekend. And then the joy begins. And then the joy begins. Okay, what I want to know what for you represents like a really brilliant Friday lived in the world. You know, within reason, within what is possible in your life. What is possible for me, that's a really good.

point actually because I do have a disability so I have certain restrictions but a good day for me would be to wake up to be relatively pain-free the sun would be shining get my daughter up and take her to school and she would go in very happy because she also has some problems so if she goes in happy I'm happy and then I come down to the beach and that's when I breathe and I've just taken the view the sound of the waves the sand the pebbles and I have I have an hour where I look for sea glass. And if there's anything on your mind or if there's anything troubling you, this is the perfect kind of place to empty your mind of all those thoughts.

So as you're walking along, because your brain is obsessing over finding glass, all other thoughts are pushed out to the side. And it really helps you relax. And I know this because I've done this for a long time. And I guess I don't have mental health problems as such, but I do have autism and that presents its own sort of anxieties and stuff like that.

So coming here, starting my day here, and then if I've got anything else to do, it can wait until I'm finished here. Probably my back's quite sore by this point because I'm bending over about six or seven hundred times picking up sea glass. And then I'll pop home and have a late breakfast

and go and see my mum and then I'll start thinking about what would be doing that evening, me and my daughter, what we might watch, what we might eat, what we might be doing on the Saturday and Sunday because we have quite a ritualistic lifestyle, both being autistic.

We do the same sort of things and the same sort of order. And I think I've noticed this most recently. I do have a lot of passions and I have to get those into my life. Things need to enrich my life so I need to cook beautiful food and I need to be in nature. I love stars and the Aurora Borealis, and there's so many things that I'm passionate about, and I want to try and cram them in every single day.

You need a lot of life, a lot of time, basically. Yeah, there's not enough hours in the day because there's so much beauty to kind of like... I cherish. Yeah, you kind of need to absorb it, because there's also so much crap in the world that you really need that to offset it, you know? Come down to the beach and sit on a bench and enjoy the quietness.

Tell me about seed glass, because this is a ritual. This is a ritual. It's an obsession. It's a passion. How does one begin this? Do you remember the very, the openings? Often on over the years. I've lived on the north-east coast of England all my life.

But wherever I've been in the world, I've been that type of person who would pick up a pebble, I pick up a piece of sea glass and, you know, they're all around my home and things like that. And they're all very meaningful. And I think it's because they've got a history. And you don't always know what that history is, so you think, wow, this could be hundreds of years old. So since I was a small child coming down at the beach, I would pick things up. But more recently, I've got some time to myself and started to decide to carve out an hour or two coming down here, mostly at the Whitley Bay. And just having this allotted slot every day because there are different types of glasses, pirate glass and there's bonfire glass.

Tell me more about this. So pirate glass, we're sitting on a bench now, right? there is literally a pile of rocks just down there from us. Two days ago, I found what looked like the rounded corner of the bottom of a bottle, but it was completely black. But I had a feeling that I had read about this and I knew what it was, so I picked it up.

And it's an old bottom of a rum bottle. It is glass. You would think it was a pebble at first, but when you shine the light through it, it glows like a kind of yellowy green. And that's probably about 200 years old. It'll have come from a ship going, up here somewhere where, you know, they had bottles of rum on board and the glass was

dark basically to try and preserve the rum from the light. And then it becomes like a tick list. It becomes like, you know, I've got to find one of those. And if you find a sea marble, especially if the light's shining and it catches the beautiful colour in the glass, it's just, it's just the most, I take photographs sometimes as I go. Once you've picked it up, put it in a bag and taking it home, it will never look as beautiful as it looked when you saw it on the sand for the first time with the sun shining on it, you know. So true. Yeah. There's actually a message in there somewhere, isn't there? What would that be would you say? Well, as in, you know, I think this also when you're on a beach, you see an amazing looking stone or shell or something. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. That's something's incredible. Then you take it home. Yeah. And it's not the same. And it's not the same. Certain things should be left, but glass I always see as a kind of beautiful, natural thing, but it's also kind of like a waste product on the beach sort of thing. So I always feel like okay taking glass but sometimes you'll look at a shell and you go no that lives there it wants to stay there i mean if you're getting bags of seed glass every day there must be a lot of bags of seed glass oh yeah you're talking kilos and kilos you really don't want to okay so like what do what what is your house that like so my house looks like my my conservatory was meant to be this serene and beautiful and simplistic and minimalist place and it's now full of sea glass essentially so some of it's displayed some of

it's put into like bottles and vases and jars with lights but then I realized I needed to do more so I now make jewelry I'm wearing some earrings today they're very very simple earrings I was thinking if I was gonna say but I'm trying to learn more and I'm trying to look at what I could do with it that makes the best use of its natural beauty so I'm looking into trying to use some of the many kilos that I've got and I probably need to take a day off from here I'd actually salt through it The problem is when you're down here every day picking the glass, you don't have the time to do stuff with it. But I am. I am starting to make things and I want to try and give everybody at Christmas time something that I've made that's come from. That would be lovely, wouldn't it?

This may be a challenging question for you, but I'll say, let's imagine all the things you've picked up from a beach. Yeah. are in the top of your house. Right. And the window's open. Let's imagine some enormous storm blows in. It's called a tornado. Okay.

Let's imagine this wind is so strong that it's like blowing all your things away or around. Okay. But good news is you have 10 seconds to grab. To snatch what I need. To snatch the one that you would like to keep if they're all blowing away. Okay. Do you think you know which one that is? Yes, because I literally just had it made into a pendant and it is a green piece of glass

in the shape of sort of like a pear but flatish and it's been placed into silver and it has like what I would say is striations through it so it has like blue, green, yellow and then when you wear it because of the silver that's on the back and because of the light reflecting off it, it looks like the aurora balliolis. that combines my two biggest passions in one. If I'm not looking down at the sand, picking sea glass up, I'm looking up at the sky at night. I like it. Are they up or down?

What about just to the horizon? You know, that's the one thing when I walk on this beach every day, and I realize that I've spent an hour or two bent over, sometimes go, hang on a second, and you just stop when you look, and you go, yes, yes, yes, it is beautiful, because sometimes when I get down here, the tide will be right in, it's only just starting to go out. And then the next time I look, it's, you know, it's 500 metres away. And anything can be happening around me.

I wouldn't have a clue because I'm so absorbed. I do get completely lost in it, yeah. So this is a classic autistic trait. I would say so. I am aware of what some would call specialist interests, if you like. But at the end of the day, it's an obsession. Let's sort of call it what it is. I mean, obsessions are important.

And lovely ones are even better. Yeah, it shows passion for things. I think if you don't have an obsession in life or a passion in life, then you can't care enough. You've got to love something. Everyone's got to love something. I suppose the big question is, how does one, imagine someone's listening, they're like, well, I don't really have an obsession, well, how do I get my obsession? Maybe it's a mindset and maybe it's a case of you don't actually even realise that you have got something. I used to work in the Stainsbury's supermarket on the checkouts and I used to sometimes get people coming through.

saying, oh, you know, my life's so mundane and, you know, I don't have anything. I'm not doing anything this weekend. And I would always say this, and I bet it's not mundane as you think. I bet you're going to see somebody who you really love, a best friend. Oh, actually, yes, I am going to say my best friend. I love her. I'm going to have a coffee and I'll enjoy that. Or even somebody might say, I don't have any hobbies at all.

Do you like music? Oh, yes, I absolutely love Coldplay and I go to see them all the time. So you think, well, you have. If you have got a passion in your life, you just don't really see it as that. So actually we're saying that people are kind of assess with things, but they don't know they are. They don't know what they've got already. Anyone who says I don't have any hobbies you think you must have. You must have something, even if it's something to do with the television.

Everyone must have something, everyone must have. They just need to look deep enough. In your great litany of hobbies you have, all your things you all are screens into your life, what would you say is the most niche thing? Gosh, I think I was quite surprised that I collect Pokemon cards. That's not an unusual thing. I would say it's not unusual, but it's an interesting combination with seat glass. Yeah, because... I can't imagine those two happening that often.

The Seed glass Pokemon collective can't be huge. It kind of does because it's massive amongst the New Divergent community. How much has this got to do with your daughter or is this completely separate? It's my daughter. It's my daughter. So I used to go with her every weekend and stand staring at the space where she looked, through the stalls that sold Pokemon cards, they're in binders, if you can imagine, you sort of flip the pages over,

and the cards are in there, and there might be ones that are rare. Obviously, you're gonna buy them, they're gonna be expensive, and then other ones, not so much. And I took no notice, and then this is where the link comes in. I spotted a card one day that actually had the Aurora in the background, and that was the hook.

That set you off. And it was funny because we now know all the stallholders by name. So I now have, have a binder with my own collection in and I'm trying to collect all of the cards that links with either the beach or nature or the aurora or the sea or something like that and it's surprising once you get into it how many there are and I seem to have a bit of a lucky streak as well so I've got an awful lot of pressure on me at the moment because bought a pack the

other day and my daughter was sort of rabbit in a way ago and could you imagine if we pulled the biggest card in the pack it would be amazing it's worth a thousand pound And I was like, yes, yes, yes, yes. So I opened it, and I pulled this card out. Did you know that straight to where? No, she couldn't speak. She was basically hypervently. And I was going, what's wrong?

What's happened? Is this the card you were talking about? So we bought another pack the next week. And she said, well, this is a different pack, but there's a top card in this one, which is worth 400 pound. I went, look, just don't, okay? Open the pack, pulled the 400 pound card out. And she was saying, wow, you are like some kind of magical pixie.

I was like, I'm really not. This is just a bit of luck. However, I told my mum, and my mum said that day, put the lottery on and I won £180 on the lottery as well that same day. So I was obviously having a bit of a lucky street. It's a special moment. What else are you going to do with this lucky street? Anything else are you going to try that you haven't been trying?

I don't know. I'm hoping today, because as I walk along the beach, I always say, come on, bring me something beautiful. I want to find a marble today. So I'm crossing my fingers and asking the sea pixies to bring me a marble today. Actually, the last time I found a marble on this beach, I stopped and went, come on marbles, look down and there was a marble. I wonder if it's the power of positive thinking.

I don't know. I don't know. It's good when it happens. I like that. It's a good way to think, whatever. Yeah, because I think if you remember these positive moments, it pushes the negative moments away, isn't it? What negative moments do you often try?

and push away. Oh, I think. You mentioned your health. Yeah, I have a condition called Ella's Danlos syndrome, which means I dislocate my joints and I'm in pain all the time. What's the name again? It's called Ella's Danlos syndrome. Ella's Danlos syndrome, yeah.

Also called EDS. It was two people. It was a Mr. Ellis and a Mr. Danlos who discovered this back in, I think, in 1920s. So I have that, and I'm in pain all the time. It causes chronic fatigue. But I find that I come down here and it energizes me, and that was another reason why I kept coming

because I found it if I was trying to rest in the house that actually made me feel worse and more lethargic so that got me down for a number of years my daughter also has the condition as well because it's genetic it's a collagen problem it's a faulty collagen so it affects skin and your joints and everything and also your heart like I said I'm autistic

my daughter's autistic and she had some really troublesome years between about eight and 11 or 12 but she's at a new school now and it's doing brilliantly but for a long long time that was like constantly on my mind. It was a constant battle, a constant fight. So you've got through those tricky years. Yeah, yeah, but you've just got to absolutely cherish

when you are having a good spell. Yeah. You know, what do they say? It's they say you can't appreciate the good in life if you don't have the bad. And it's true. As I wake up something in the mornings and go, what have I got to worry about today?

Actually, nothing. Do you think with your health condition one, I suppose, small mercy slash bonus of that is that you really appreciate the days and you're feeling right. There is absolutely no doubt about that because I have had this conversation with older people. People in their 80s who have made me

be diagnosed with arthritis and saying, oh, I can't believe it's come to this. My quality of life's awful, and I don't really want to use a walking frame. And I had come to terms with using crutches and a walking stick when I was about 49. It wasn't particularly nice, but you can either kind of kick and scream

and kind of, you know, hate it, or you can sort of embrace it and think, right, okay, I need the best quality of life I can, so I'm going to do what I can to have that quality of life, and I'm going to appreciate every moment. So you do, there's no doubt about it, because I had two days on Saturday and Sunday last week, which were awful, terrible, really bad pain.

And after Saturday and Sunday, when I woke up on Monday morning, and the pain was at a normal level for me, wow, it's like winning the lottery. It honestly is because you just say, oh God, I can function. It's a huge win. You do really appreciate it. It's a funny thought that that really is the real lottery.

You know, we have the lottery with the money. Yeah. But, you know, the other lottery is the important lottery. It is. I remember when I was a kid, my older uncles and aunts and grandparents and things out at, New Year always toasted to good health. And there's a seven or eight year old at the time. I was saying, God, they're obsessed with Toaster.

good health. Now it's not until you start to get older that you go actually, yes, of course, health is everything. Good health is absolutely everything. And you don't appreciate having good health until you don't have good health. So true. So true. I mean, yeah, I literally have the exact same experience. My father used to toast a good health. Yeah, you know, if you're 10 years old, it's like, okay, well, it seems a bit of a weighted toast. It does. It does when you, yeah, when you're kidding. Yeah, I mean, it seems a bit of honest, but then actually, yeah, you're totally right. At some point it really kicked in and go, no, that is the right time. Oh, yes, definitely.

Can I ask you about your autism a bit? When were you diagnosed? Oh, gosh, 51. So four years ago, I'll be 55 next month. So that's a late diagnosis? That's a very late diagnosis. And it's a weird thing, and it's not an unusual thing. The pattern is you think your child might have autism, you look into it,

and realize they have, they get diagnosed. You then look at yourself and some traits. You might talk to you. I talk to my mum. about it and then I thought back and the weird thing is the condition that I have Ellis Dan Loss syndrome ADS presents as does hypermobility about 40% of people ADS have autism and I remember reading that fact and thinking oh well that's not me but then all of a sudden your brain goes well hang on a minute how about your childhood

how about when you were constantly like the odd one the weird one the one that cried all the time at school the one that couldn't cope with things had sensory issues was anxious wouldn't eat any food other than I had three things that I ate, corn beef. Corned beef. Corned? Okay. Yeah. Beef paste sandwiches and chips and even then my mum says I didn't eat the chips. I just built houses out of that. So I wrote and I wrote and I wrote and I had an A4 notebook and before I knew it I had about 10 pages and then I realised yeah I'm ticking every box. Yeah, there's absolutely no doubt about it. What was that moment like when you, as you were ticking each box, realizing that this is actually a thing?

That was unbelievable light bulb moment. And it's weird because a lot of people, especially later in life, might think they might be neurodivergent, but say there's no point in the diagnosis is not going to help me now. And I always say it does help massively because it improves your own awareness of yourself. It makes you sort of more grateful and thankful and kinder to yourself because when you might be struggling and you go,

God, you're stupid, why are you like this? you go well you know why you like this it's because you're autistic so accept that and be kind to yourself and my daughter I think was 10 or 11 when she was diagnosed and I was 51 so wow I know how do you stop yourself at that point from retracing kind of all your steps to that point there must be so much reanalyzing of what has happened up to that point or maybe you're it's a funny thing it's a funny thing my I'm very pragmatic and I always look back at life and think oh well I know I did that and gosh that was an awful time my parents were frustrated with me because I wouldn't eat and things like that and

I can't go back and change all that now and I wouldn't want to but I do recognize going forward what helps me what I need what I don't need I deliberately don't indulge in having a relationship because I need too much time for myself my daughter I also know that I need a lot of space and time and I'm quite happy to be in my own head. A lot of people aren't. A lot of people need to be busy, busy, busy all the time. And I'm really happy with my own company. And I think as a child and a teenager and maybe in my 20s and 30s,

I felt compelled to fit in and I went out, you know, Christmas parties that I hated. Whereas now I just go, no thanks. You go, it's brilliant. It's actually really freeing. It's actually completely liberating because for years of saying yes and standing in bars going, I don't want to be here. this is horrible. I hate it. I'm having a sensory overload. Now you just go, no, I don't want to do that. So it's brilliant. You don't have to retrace any steps. All you need to do is look back and go,

okay, you did that because you were thought you were expected to do that. You try to fit in. Let's not do that anymore. And I'll be so much happier. And I am. Yeah. Great. It's absolutely great. You know, people are going, do you want to come out for a meal? Nope. I would have to go to a party. Oh, no. Thanks very much. You'll find me at the bottom of the garden looking up at the sky. Brilliant. How did you navigate then the kind of romantic worlds when you did? Being autistic, I don't get banter. So if anyone ever said anything kind of funny, I would think that that was very cruel. So like...

You would take these quite literally? Yeah, very, very much so. And I could never work out what people were meaning. I could never work out what their motivation. were once the penny dropped and once I was diagnosed I was like yeah I was never meant to be in relationships

because I'm quite a loner I suppose I like people and I like transient sort of friendships but nothing like you know I can't be in someone's company all the time I can't be around somebody all the time I also have an ADHD

ADHD diagnosis which was more recent actually and then was diagnosed by a female psychologist who also had ADHD and she asked this question she said you get bored don't you I went yeah that's the crux of it as well people get on my nerves and I get bored with them so you're quite tough really a judge of character

people don't have too much leeway from no but then again I also think my daughter will tell you that I am actually very kind and I am very patient but I think my patience was potentially broken by maybe just having relationships with people who weren't very good how did you choose the people in your life that you did choose Are there any patterns?

It's a funny one that because I don't have a massive friendship circle. I have my best friend who I met at school when I was 13 and looking back I think she might be possibly new drive urgent and that's the connection with us. So we've been friends now for like 40-yard years. And I don't really choose anyone else to be close to me because I don't feel the need, which again comes back and not having a relationship.

But I'm the kind of person who indulges in a bit of an online community type thing. So I run a, it's like a book club, basically, and it's been running for years. And the people on there, because it's a very like-minded thing, and it's a very specific thing, because it's basically one author. We're just talking about one author. Oh, wow. Nigel Slater, the food writer. Oh, wow.

It's a whole Nigel Slater. It evolved from one book. He has a book called The Christmas Chronicles, and it grew from just being about that book into with a year-long kind of discussion. which kind of very much plays into the things that I'm interested in. So nature and cookery and the seasons of foraging and things like that. Do you think Nigel's later knows about this? I would love to think that Nigel knows about this club and fight.

I just thought about this yesterday because I've commented before on his Instagram and I'd love to think that he follows it. I'd love to think that he reads it. And I'd love to think that one day he'll actually go, guys, hi, it's me. I've been reading this all along. I've got a weirdly related story to it. Okay. So my mother is a Nigel Sater fan.

Wow. She's also the kind of person who, if anything, is slightly wrong with something. Yeah. She kind of will try and tell someone. Right. Even if that person is the kind of famous chef. Okay. Right, right, yeah.

So she was making some proffiteroles following his recipe. Right. And she's quite, you know, she's a big baker. Right. And it didn't go as she thought it would go. Okay. And so she, and she said, well, I followed this to the letter. Like, something is not right with this, with this recipe.

And so she emailed him, telling you, explain to this in detail. I love that. And he sent her a really sweet one back. Oh, he's a lovely guy, he's a lovely guy. So I mean, what I would say is I think you should email. That's quite the coincidence. I have actually pointed out myself before,

because there is a recipe in one of his books that misses an ingredient. And I have actually pointed out before, and he has gone onto his social media and said, look, before anybody else comments, I'm aware that the sugar is missing from this, by the way, it's 200 grams. But there's nothing I can do about the book now because the book's being in print for like 12 years.

You should find every single book and write it in. Yeah, oh gosh, bless. Well, that's a bit of a coincidence, isn't it? Wow, there's a link. My mother, just Nigel Slater. Well, she should join my club. I'll tell her about it. You're famous in the Nigel Slater community.

No, and no, wouldn't even go that far. But we're a beekeeper family as well. And I've been on Master Chef and I've alluded to these things. You've been on Master Chef? I've been a master chef. Oh, wow. Wow. I've been very easy to find.

Well, I'm actually quite unique in the fact that I wasn't on the one with the two guys that are no longer there. And I wasn't on the original Lloyd Grossman. I was on a series that the late great Gary Rhodes did in 2001 for one year only. Long time ago. Yeah. So, but yeah. How was that as an experience? Oh, it was an incredible experience.

It really was. I didn't win, but the producer was a lovely lady. She was a previous contestant. She came over to me afterwards and said, I really wanted you to win. You should have won. Would you do it again? I went, no.

Once it's enough. You came close to me? It wasn't too bad. I've still got the photographs of it. Do you know what? I'm sitting here now and I've picked out certain things that I can see around us on the bench here. And I'm like, yeah, there's a stone over there that I'm going to get.

And there's a one over there that I've spotted. And that one looks interesting. You can see it all. The brain never switches off. That's the ADHD, yeah. How was Gary Rhodes as a figure? He was lovely. He was really lovely. But again, I'm thinking about it now.

The fact that I didn't know I was autistic at the time, I was standing backstage and we were getting ready to start filming. And he came over to introduce himself. So should have just turned, the whim, shook his hand and said, hello. But instead of that, I left him standing there with his hand outstretched. Well, I went, I can't find any white pepper. And he went, Pardon, I can't find any white pepper.

And he went, oh, sorry, sorry about that. Hang on, I said, and he rushed off, got some white pepper and brought it back. And I think about that. Now, that's such an artistic thing to do. Oh, my God. Yeah, yes. Oh, my God. And then top of things off, I was actually married at the time.

I was married in my 20s and early 30s. And my husband decided to come sort of through the door and, more or less smacked him in the face with the door as he came through. from the Green Room. Wow. So you really left your mark and Gary Road. Yeah, left me Mark and Gary Rhodes. There's no doubt about that.

Gosh, bless him. How long were you married for? Oh, gosh. I think we were together for about 10 years, but it just wasn't for me, as I've already said. I don't like living with people. Did you have a child with this person? No, no.

My child was, I had late. I landed into my daughter until I was 40. That was with somebody else. But to be honest, I'm still friends with my ex-husband. Yeah. So obviously you must be, okay. I mean, you were with someone for a long time, so it was, you know. Yeah.

But that must mean you were denying yourself things in that relationship as you were going. Do that make sense? I think I just, I knew after probably being married for a year that it just wasn't for me. Yeah. But then you wait and you still went, we went for 10 years. Yeah, because I think you do. It's like a lot of people now, when you hear about people who really should be breaking up and don't break up and they say they're staying together for the kids and that type of thing. A lot of people persevere, don't because I think it's a right thing.

Nobody likes failure, if you like. What do you think about that? Oh gosh. I mean, I come from parents who my mum's original husband, my real father, was an awful man. If you're in a horrible marriage or a horrible relationship, your kids will know, they will feel that, they will see that. If it's a toxic relationship, then you get out because you're certainly not doing kids any favours by staying in a relationship. So you subscribe to the idea that better that, that, the kids don't have animosity and bad atmosphere in their life

rather than having people on the same mood for the sake of... Better off with two happy parents than two unhappy parents but unfortunately it still seem to live in a world that subscribes to the sort of like two parents being the norm and single parent being a bit kind of weird. I remember going to my daughter's old school and the person I was having a meeting with

described our home as a broken home and I thought that's disgusting because our home is beautiful and tranquil and calm and kind of. and loving, and it perhaps wasn't that when I was with her father. So it's a bit of a screwed up perspective that some people have of what's right and what's wrong and what's normal and what's not. There's no doubt about it.

Completely. I think these things die hard, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're the kind of foundation stones or everything that's built into us as youngsters in our society. Yeah. And even by the law, you know, and the government, you know, if you're married, it's beneficial tax-wise.

You literally make more money. It's unbelievable when you think about it. So they incentivise it as a sister. Very strange. It just made me realise that actually as an autistic person, I find it hard to go navigate my life. So maybe I am actually doing people a favour by remaining single because I don't want to place my expectations,

my complexities and my, I've already told you that I've got quite a restrictive life. Being single is not only just good for me, it's good for other people as well. I don't really want to. I would say, though, I think that if we take what we've just been saying about not going on what, you know, a normal thing to do whatever, or the standard approaches to relationship, I don't think you necessarily need to deny yourself something

in the sense that, you know, you can find someone who maybe fits into, you can be very clear, like, this is who I am, this is what happens. Even if I see you every third Tuesday, Maybe that might work. That would work for a lot of people. You know, you could find someone who's light-minded. It would possibly work for a lot of people. It wouldn't work for me at all at the moment.

But I think that's because I have a 14-year-old autistic daughter. I just don't have the time. But that might be something that might work for me in the future. But it's like anything as well, isn't it? It's like saying sexuality. It can be fluid. It can change over the years. Once you pigeonhole yourself as being,

no, I'll always be single. I do actually feel like that at a moment, but I'm not so rigid that I don't understand that things can and do change. Talk about things changing. You were 41 when you had your daughter. 40 when I had my daughter, yeah. So that's, you know, that's a decent age to start. It's kind of late. It's kind of late. But timing is always perfect somehow, isn't it?

It's a weird thing because I never wanted children and then it's been the most wonderful gift being a mother. I absolutely love it. I felt like I was made for it. Me and my daughter are literally two, like, best friends. I've got two peas in a pod, so we understand each other so much. And I really would have missed out if I actually hadn't had. So that was a very... So how did that all just happen then?

I found myself pregnant at 39. There's a little bit of a happy accident, if you like. And I loved the pregnancy. I loved the birth. I loved every moment. I mean, it has been tough because I say she's autistic as well, She's got our own issues, but I just thought, God, if I had never done this, what I would have missed out on, wow.

So when the happy accident happened, was it any part of you doubting of what you should do? No, absolutely not, and that's how I knew instinctively, instinctively, because I didn't look at the pregnancy test and go, oh my God, what am I going to do? There was no... You saw his opportunity. You were like, this is great.

It was a little bit of a surprise, but there was never, ever any doubt. So to go from being very, which I suppose is the black and white thinking, to go from very much, I don't want children, I don't want children, I don't want children, to go and, oh, I'm pregnant, this is amazing. I mean, I had a food business at the time, which I had to sell, and I mean, I had to give quite a lot up, because she's taken quite a lot of looking after

because she's got some 10 difficulties and what have you. But it's all been worth it. I wouldn't change any of it in a heartbeat. It's all been absolutely like the most amazing. What is it like with the father? So you, so you're kind of happy at some move? That make it a bit more complicated as a set up? There was quite an age difference.

He was a lot younger than me. He's 13 years younger than me. She doesn't see him an awful lot now. He rings, but it works for us because again, it's that complex thing of we don't push people away. We're not horrible nasty people, but we do have limited energy and we have limited brain in space. So she's tired after school. I'm tired after my day. We don't really like people kind of visiting very much. We don't really like have a lot of energy to give to other people.

But we keep in touch and you know, he knows how she's getting on and was the same occasionally. The younger man? The younger man, I know. What do you, I mean, can you sell it? The younger man? You know, would you do it again? I was having this conversation with my hairdresser yesterday and I was telling her about when I split up with my partner, daughter's dad I split up with him when I was 41 we were only together for about 18 months after she was born and then in my mid 40s I did do a lot of online dating and it all I ever attracted was the 23 24 25 26 year olds so there's obviously there's something in there that I don't know what it is I think maybe it's the child like autistic in me who thinks I'm younger than I am maybe that's it

maybe that's why I used to be drawn to younger people but yeah I mean yeah it's obviously got its plus size but then again it didn't work but I don't think that was the reason why it didn't work so I don't know on the case when we think about it actually on the case of falling pregnant at 40 maybe my subconsciousness knew I needed a younger man who was perhaps more fertile there we go I think I think that's a really you know absolutely fair thing to do there you go see that could be it you know there's the reason why we're all here there you go there you go that's a amazing. That's incredible. Can I ask you three more questions and I'm going to leave you alone?

Yeah. Yeah. To pick last. Is that right? Yeah. I was having a text conversation on the way here because, as I mentioned earlier, got the metro. Oh, yes. And 20 years ago, I was, I was, 20 years ago? Yeah. I went to university in Durham. Durham. Lovely. I went to Newcastle a couple of times. We went to the coast, a couple of times. We rarely, we didn't do enough exploring. Right. And I was texting, I said, I'm on the Newcastle Metro now. Did you ever go? I think I went, he said, I think I went on it once, which maybe makes it worse,

that I went on it once and never again. However, then I thought, I had a thought when he said this, and I said, maybe a lot of the, our actual crimes are not the things that we've done, are things we don't do. Totally, totally agree, absolutely. And so my question to you is, if you had to think of the things that you haven't done that would represent you

a kind of small crime can you think of what they were being? There's a couple of things as a kid I was very shy painfully shy right but I always wanted to have that kind of outgoing personality and be able to get on stage and act and sing

I would love to perform I just never had the courage and the confidence and I now regret that I see that my daughter's the same and I don't push her because I know that even if she regrets not being as outward as she wants to.

If you can't do it, you can't do it, and pushing someone is not the answer, but I really, really wish I'd had the good. I've done karaoke a few times, and it comes back to that thing about passion and something that makes you feel good and really enjoying something. So can we do more performing?

Can we do it? Can that be unleashed that side of view? I don't know, because I actually thought about this. I mean, my daughter was just getting to an age now at 14 where kind of she's slightly more independent. So going forward, I'm thinking, you know, I might join something like in amateur dramatics or I might join something like a choir.

Probably more choir than average of dramatics, but then I always hear things about them being quite odd places and filled with weird characters. What choir? Really? Oh, the people that are my Nigel Slater chat are all in choirs. They're all in choirs.

And they all say, oh my goodness, there's always that one person who sings ridiculously loudly and there's always that one person who, you know, they kind of follows you. Yeah. You could always move around in the choir, right? That's a possibility. Oh, definitely do that. Mm-hmm. Chires are amazing.

Yeah. I mean, there's just a beautiful, such a great thing to do. That's true, yeah. I was in a choir quite recently with my child and there weren't that many fathers. Yeah, I can imagine. So they weren't, there weren't enough basses, so I was in there. But anyway, to the point, it's fairly recently, and it's so joyous. I just, I completely recommend it.

And even if there's someone weird, just, you know, shuffle about, It's going on my list. I have a list on my phone. I have got a long list, but I have to do this. How old things you need to do? Can you read out your list, by the way? Is that okay? So I have got lots of things to do with the garden.

Like plant the letters, plant things that I need to buy. I also want to write a book called The Seaglass Diaries, which weirdly enough, right? I thought about this idea only a few days ago and the idea came about. because of the conversations that I have on the beach. And a lot of these ideas will not come to fruition, but a lot of these things will. And if it's on my list of things to do, then I will work my way through it.

And I've got a note of where all the black thorn, all the local blackthorn has just flowered. And when it's in flower, that tells you where the slows will be in the autumn. And I pick slows in the autumn. Are you a slow gin fat? I hate it, but I love making it. So I make bottles and bottles and bottles of it.

And then I give it all away at Christmas. I give it to my waitress. drivers and everything. I'm like, yeah, you've got to have one of these for Christmas. So I've written down exactly where all the slopes are. There's some of at Richard's house. There's some of the city's breeze and there's some of my dad's roundabout, right?

My dad's roundabout being where he parks the car and he takes the dog for a walk, right? Yeah. And then I've just got things in like massive capital letters. Build the cold frame. Move the bench, clear the table, paint the doors, move the swing, move the obelisk, strim the garden, dig out the bluebells.

So I lost this list. about two days ago and I just started to re-type it, it just ended up deleting. So I'm putting choir back on there now after losing it. So choir is now the first thing on that list of things you need to do.

Look into it, find one, go. I love that. So at the end of these podcasts is a song. Oh. And the song is especially composed for the episode. Okay.

Yeah. Wow. I do have at some point the idea of getting a choir to sing the end song for one of these. What a lovely idea. So maybe the choir will sing us out in this particular episode. What a lovely idea. But then you have to join a choir then. Imagine the choir sung you out.

I mean, you didn't join a choir. No, that would. I'd be very disappointed with myself. I mean, no, pressure or anything, obviously. But no, I will. I will. And then when you went to join the choir, I said, why are you here? He said, well, a whole choir sung me out, because I've got to be.

Wow. There you go. Right. Okay. Wow. No pressure at all. No, that's just giving me... Choir pressure is a good pressure, right?

Choir pressure is a lovely pressure. If you're going to have pressure in life, then choir pressure is the one you would choose. Right, how have you found the experience talking to a stranger at a bench? Really, really good, actually. I don't know. I either picked me on a good day or... In a way, you know, I find it strange that I say that I've such a restrictive person and that I have all these autistic characteristics.

But actually, I can kind of just get on with anyone and go with the flow and, you know, have my day interrupted. If I was actually that restricted, you would have approached me and I would have went, oh, no, I'm sorry, I'm very busy go away. So I'm actually kind of very open and kind of a very honest person. And I think this has been a lovely thing for me to be involved in, actually. So what a lovely thing to have that chance meeting. Thank you. Beautiful.

There's one question that ends it. Before we're going to do that, we're going to do one other thing. So if you're okay with this, I ask people to close their eyes and they can imagine things. I ask them to think back to a kind of a moment or a scene in their life from the past. I'll close my eyes. Okay. Somewhere you go back to that you can describe in detail or something. There's so many things, loads and loads and loads of things that I treasure so much.

But the one thing that came at the forefront, I mean, my mind. as soon as you said it and I can't now move it out in mind, is seeing the Aurora Borealis in the most spectacular fashion. I think it was on the 10th of May, 2024. I've never seen colour in the sky and movement in the sky like that ever in my life. And all I could do was just say it wow over and over again because these colours, when you think about the Aurora Borealis, you're sometimes thinking, oh, you get that green or whatever.

This was like a rainbow, but at night in the dark. and it was green and yellow and orange and red and pink and I was such a natural phenomenon to be so incredibly vivid and it was one of those moments where you just think being alive is just amazing and incredible and the world is beautiful it was something you go just completely and utterly immersed in

and it felt like such a privilege to witness it. Really did. Very special. Well, there you go. You ready for the final question? Come on then. Let's do it. And then after that, the choir will start.

Okay. I'm looking forward to that. I really looking forward to that. Okay. I've got a song in my mind. Oh. What a song? What a tune?

Yeah. It's been playing in my mind while we're talking all the time. I don't know why other than the fact it's the song I love. It's Edge of 17 by Steve Enoch. Oh, wow. Love that song. Okay, great. I think...

That's a spay of being playing in your mind. If I join a choir and I enjoy it and I stay, I will put my little hand up and I will see... At some point, can we see? Yeah. At some point, can we see? Yeah. There you go.

There you go, see. Put that on the list. Okay, fantastic. Right, last question, yes. Yes. What are you going to do next? When I stand up... Perrin of mind, I'm never quite sure.

My joints are going to be like, My brain will either say, you need to go home now and have a cup tea, or let's go and have a look and see if there's any more sea glass to be found. So it's going to have to be a case of when I stand up, have I got another half an hour in me, or am I going to go home and have a cup of tea? In actual fact, would it have been such a beautiful day. I will remain outdoors.

So if I do go home, I'll go and sit in the garden and have a cup of tea. So either way, I'll be somewhere beautiful. I'm enjoying every minute of this blue sky, because I don't get an awful lot of good weather in the north-east coast of England, to be honest. So I'm just going to enjoy every moment of this beautiful day. There you go. Lovely. Thank you so much for your time.

You're very welcome. I really enjoyed talking to you. I've enjoyed talking to you as well, thank you. I'm going to imagine this mountain of seed last forever now. It's hysterical, honestly. In the conservatory. God, honestly, it needs certain. Would you want seed last to appear in this choir scene?

about seed last, I think. Ooh, that would be lovely, wouldn't it? That would be lovely.