#STRask - Does Scripture Support a Christian Church Joining in Worship Services with an LDS Church?

Episode Date: February 6, 2025

Questions about whether there’s Scripture to support a Christian church joining in worship services with an LDS church, whether it’s a genetic fallacy to say we shouldn’t sing any songs created by bands from NAR churches, and whether it’s a sin not to fast.   Is there any Scripture that would support a Christian church joining in worship services with an LDS church? How would you handle this situation if it were happening in your small community? Is it a genetic fallacy to say we shouldn’t sing any songs created by bands from NAR churches, even if they’re biblically sound? Is it a sin not to fast?

Welcome. You are listening to Stand to Reason's Hashtag STR Ask podcast with Amy Hall and Greg Kogel. Hey, Amy. Hey, Greg. We've got a bunch of practical questions about mostly church-related things here today. This first one comes from Sandy Barton. Is there any scripture that would support a Christian church joining in worship services with an LDS church? How would you handle this situation if it were happening in your small community?

LDS, like Latter-day Saints, like Mormons. Yeah. All right. Yeah, this scripture. It's in 2 Corinthians. I'm going to go to it. Latter-day Saints, like Mormons. All right, yeah, this is scripture. It's in 2 Corinthians. I'm going to go to it. Now of course, this scripture applies based on a certain understanding of the theology

of the LDS Church, okay? Here's what it says in verse 14 of chapter 6. And most people understand this verse in a different context or a different kind of application, but it certainly applies here. Do not be bound together with unbelievers. For what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness, or what harmony has Christ with Belial, like the devil, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever, or what agreement has the temple of God with idols.

For we are the temple of the living God, just as God said, I will dwell in them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Therefore, come out from their midst and be separate, says the Lord, and do not touch what is unclean. And I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters of me, says the Lord Almighty." 14 to 18 of chapter 6. Now that sounds, wow, that's pretty heavy language in there. But what is the Church of Jesus Christ for Latter-day Saints? It's a distortion,

a radical distortion of Christianity. It's not Christian. And by the way, just to be clear, since that kind of statement is so offensive to so many people, especially when Mormons claim to be Christians, according to Joseph Smith, if Mormons are Christians, then we are not. And if we are Christians, then they are not, because he started Mormonism with the purpose of restoring a lost gospel and a lost religion. That's why they're called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, because it's in the latter days here that the gospel which has been lost was restored and is restored in Mormonism.

Now if they're wrong, then this is a false religion. False religion is inspired by the angel of light, who's the angel of light, Hillel, the shining one, the devil, now called the devil. And in fact, Paul warns about that in this very book, and false apostles, and angels of light, etc., etc., particular things that apply to the Mormon church. So this is, these are doctrines of demons that they hold to contrary to Christianity, and we are going to have a fellowship with them in a religious sense. We are going to share worship with them and be as if there's no difference. No, the Pope

has no trouble with that, but we ought to. And what Paul says here is, what fellowship has light with darkness? That view is dark. Now some might say, wait a minute, partnership of righteousness and lawlessness, they're not lawless. Well, in many ways they're not. They're great people. They're really, really nice. No contest. But when it comes to all of the particulars, virtually all of these other things apply. No, it is not acceptable for us to worship together with what amounts to idol worshiping, people who are involved in a religion that is deceptive, that is a demonic angel of light revealed, and is a distortion of the gospel of grace. I mean, more could be said about this, and again, I'm making an assessment of the theology of Mormonism here. I'm not saying Mormons are lawful people. I'm saying by God's standards, they're in darkness.

And what they worship is not, or I should say maybe who they worship is not the same. They can call them the Father, they can talk about Jesus, they can talk about the Holy Ghost, but they are explicitly reject the councils that give high Christology and a high theology, a Trinitarian theology. So there's a piece that I wrote a number of years ago, and I'm trying to remember the title of it, but I think it was something akin to, is Mormonism a denomination of Christianity? And so I'm not even asking if it's true or false, I'm just saying is it at all kin to what we're doing?

Can we make common cause on theological issues? And I think people read that, and my source book is the LDS Beliefs, published by Deseret Press, which is the LDS press, and it's the clearest characterization of their views. So I'm not misrepresenting them at all. Mormons often misrepresent Mormonism according to LDS beliefs. You can go on their website and read about all their basic doctrines.

They have a book called Gospel Principles that explains a lot of the basics of their church. You can find that on their website. I think a lot of people don't realize how different they are. But in the two most important categories, God and the gospel, they are very different from us. So in terms of God, they think that we are the same us. So, in terms of God, they think that we are the same type of being as God. So, we're the same kind of being. We're the same species, I guess. And God was once a man. He became a God. They disagree over whether or not he ever sinned. Some say he did. Some say he didn't. And we, too become gods ourselves. So their gospel is the way that they do that. Their gospel is made up of certain laws that they have to

follow in order to be good enough to be a god and make it to the highest level of heaven. This is not a worldview that's compatible with ours. And Greg, you mentioned the First Corinthians, in chapter 10, I can't remember which chapter, yeah, you were in... Greg Foss 6. Danielle Pletka 6. Danielle Pletka 6. And he talks about how, let's see, the things with which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God, and I do not want you to become sharers in demons."

So he's talking about them not participating in any sort of like love feasts in temples with idols because you are sharing with them in demons. So that's in chapter 10 of 1 Corinthians. Now that's, again, that's really strong language, but if you are participating with people who are worshipping a false god, then Paul has some strong things to say. It's in chapter 10 there. Are you looking for something else? Well, I'm looking at chapter 11 because I found the verse that I was referring to a few moments ago in verse 3 and following, but I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness,

your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ. For if one comes, watch the series here now, the items, if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached or received a different spirit, which you have not received, or a different gospel, which you have not accepted. You bear this beautifully. Now we're speaking sarcastically there. I said, oh, you put up with that, fine, but you shouldn't be. And then there's another place that talks about, oh here, verse 14, and 13 and 14, For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ, no wonder for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

And I have all these features numbered. One, another Jesus. Two, a different gospel. Three, make that two a different spirit. Three, a different gospel, three make that two a different spirit, three a different gospel, four false apostles, five satan disguised, an angel of light giving them. Those are all characteristic of Mormonism. They have a different Jesus, a different gospel, a different spirit, they have their own apostles that are false apostles, and they have an angel of light that's

and they have an angel of light that's Moroni who has delivered revelation to them. So, no, you don't want to do anything, make any common cause with them on theological matters. Are they pro-life and you're pro-life? Can you meet together and talk about that? Fine. Political issues? Fine. Theology? No. Yeah, going on in the— Worship? No, especially. Going on in chapter 10 where I was reading, this is, let's see, verse 21, you cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons. Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy?" So,

Pete What chapter is that? Stephanie That's chapter 10, around verse 21 of 1 Corinthians. Pete Oh, 1 Corinthians, yeah. Thank you. Stephanie So, again, these are strong words, but it's a completely different God and a completely different gospel. So, if Paul's correct, then you don't want to participate in their, certainly not have communion with them or anything like that. Now I have attended services in Mormon churches, I just don't really participate. I'm just there to observe.

I don't see a problem with that. But actually having a joint worship service is a big problem. So how would I handle that? I think I would go to whoever's organizing it and I would say, hey, I think maybe you don't really know enough about Mormonism because this seems very strange. And then you could talk about the differences between God and the gospel that I think make this illegitimate. By the way, one pushback that confuses Christians is that when we suggest they're not really

Christian or if they're Christian, we're not, is they'll say, well, of course they're Christian, they believe in Jesus, all right, which they do. And then I respond by saying, do you think Muslims are Christian? They say no. I said, but Muslims believe in Jesus too. It's just a different Jesus, and the same is true of Islam. I mean Mormonism. So that's something that you, just because you name the name Jesus on, he says it's a different Jesus, you know, he talks about what you received. I just read that. So there are lots of different Jesuses, you know. Right now we're fighting the social justice Jesus in the culture, you know, a lot of progressives advancing that. But just because they name the

name of Jesus as part of their religious system does not mean they're talking about the same Jesus we're talking about. Yes, there's only one Jesus. Some people get it right, and some people get it wrong. On their view, Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer, as we are, by the way, and I guess as God is. We are all the same kind of creatures, some exalted, some more fallen, but we're all the same kind of thing. That is a different Jesus. Now, what I would love to see, maybe your churches can get together, because this doesn't mean you have to hate them or treat them badly. What I would love to see is the two churches come together and maybe you have a couple speakers presenting their views and talking about the

differences between their views so that you could have some more understanding of why you can't both be Christians. You can't both claim that label. Again, that doesn't mean you have to hate them or yell at them. It just means you can't worship with them. Okay, here's a question from Phil. I recently started studying logical fallacies. I've heard a few Christian apologists warn against singing songs created by bands from NAR churches like Beth-El. Isn't that a genetic fallacy if the song itself is biblically solid? Yeah, I think it is, but there's more going on here. So it's, the song, and I've actually made this point, if the song itself is sound, that's kind of a pun, I guess, if it's a

good sound, then when we read it or we sing it, we're not participating in something immoral or inappropriate. Part of the difficulty though is another element and this just has to be factored in. I'm not making a decision one way or another, but someone pointed out, look at if you're doing this as a congregation and then you see that this is in the fine print after the song goes up, you know, when you're singing and they got the copyright information. This is a group that is suspect theologically. What you, what it may do is encourage people to go to other material by that group that is not sound and be wooed away or corrupted theologically in some sense by that.

So that's a consideration. That's a causal, what's called a causal slippery slope. That is where the thing that you're doing is not immoral, but it may cause something that is immoral. And then the moral quality of the second kind of slips up to the first. But that's a kind of a judgment call. I have personally been so worried about that because I don't think people are making those kinds of judgments and assessments very carefully. They're just singing the song, you know. But others have been more concerned about that. I mean, I think there's certainly, let me think here, if you are singing the song to yourself, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Like, I don't think

you're singing false theology if you're not singing false theology. But I do think there is a danger, especially with younger people who go out and they look on Spotify and they have really like that song, I'm going to find more by that group. It's just a natural thing people do and you don't want to Point them to bad theology. So I'm an old fogie. So I don't use Spotify. But what is that? But So I would counsel churches to not use those songs because you just there are other good songs churches to not use those songs because you just, there are other good songs. You don't have to sing those songs. There are plenty of good songs and you don't want to point people in a direction that will harm them ultimately, even if that particular song is

okay. All right, let's go to a question from Steve D. Is it a sin not to fast? Matthew 6 16 implies that it's part of the norm of the Christian life. Not to sound like I'm trying to make excuses, but I've been dealing with Crohn's disease, which for me makes it difficult to gain and maintain a healthy weight, and my doctor suggests small and frequent meals. So does fasting necessarily need to be strictly from food, or are other types of fast permissible? When Jesus talks about they will fast, this is descriptive. It's not, he's not saying that we all have to fast.

I mean, that would be my view. It is characteristic of religious people, including Christians, more so in the past than maybe nowadays, but to engage in fasting for spiritual purpose. And there's been times in my life, periods in my life, when I've done that. Not very much. I don't think they should call it a fast, they should call it a slow. You know, it's like time drags on. I'm going to bed, you know? But rather than think about food. So it's fast and prayer, by the way, that's the combination. So it's a time dedicated, it's not just not eating,

but it's dedicated to not eating and focusing on the Lord in prayer, you know, being before Christ. So I don't think it's a sin not to do that. I think it's a spiritual discipline that brings benefit, and sometimes it happens almost naturally. That is, when you're facing a really difficult circumstance, you just don't eat. You devote yourself to prayer regarding that circumstance. But it's also something when you're facing critical decisions, then you're going to do that.

Our church Sunday just inaugurated a period of 40 days of fasting. And what they've wanted to do is, it's like there's a calendar out there and you kind of choose your day that you're going to give that day to fasting and prayer on behalf of the 40-day commitment to fasting and prayer that the church is doing for a particular end. So they have plans, they have things they want to accomplish, and they're praying and fasting regarding this issue. I think it's a great, it's a great idea. There have been periods of my life where, you know, every once a week I fasted for like six months. Full fast, I didn't, you know, like it's Monday night, one meal, last meal for break the

fast on Wednesday morning. But there are different kinds of fasts, of course, but I did that because there was some very, very difficult set of circumstances I was facing. But it's not a standard part of my life. And maybe it ought to be more. But I don't think it's sinning if you don't. to be more, but I don't think it's sinning if you don't. I don't think it's sinning if you don't either. However, I will say that you can still, I think you can still participate in it. The only people I would say don't participate in it would be someone like an anorexic person where not eating is tied up with other things other than prayer and God and can lead to all sorts of difficulties.

But in Steve's case, what I think is, Steve, you can, you don't have to fast for 24 hours. You don't have to fast for whatever it is. You could fast one meal, one time a month or one time a quarter. You know, you don't have to do it all the time, but maybe you could do it once in a while because just see what God has for you in that and you don't have to do it all the time, but maybe you could do it once in a while because just see what God has for you in that and you don't have to do it regularly or you know, just have it fit whatever your physical limitations are and that's fine. I also think other types of fasts are perfectly permissible. If you want to fast from other things, like screens, like, yeah, whatever it is, and then

you use that time to seek God and to pray and to read your Bible. I think that's fine. But you could certainly say one meal, especially if you're doing lots of small and frequent meals, skip one of them and spend that time in prayer every, you know, you decide how often that is. And I think it's still possible to participate. You don't have to go crazy. You don't have to do a 24-hour fast.

You can adjust that and see how it goes and see what happens. So hopefully that will help you out there. All right. Thank you so much, Sandy and Phil and Steve. We appreciate hearing from you. Send us your question on X with the hashtag STRask or go to our website at str.org and just look for our hashtag, strask podcast page. We look forward to hearing from you.

This is Amy Hall and Greg Kogel for Stand to Reason.