#STRask - How Can Those Who Are Happy with the Election Results Show Compassion to Those Who Are Devastated?

Episode Date: January 16, 2025

Questions about how those who are happy with the election results can show compassion to those who are devastated, navigating a relationship with an adult child who’s angry about the way you voted, and whether there’s more virtue in overcoming sin or not being tempted by it.   How can those who are happy with the election results show compassion to those who are devastated by it, such as those who are gay or trans? How do we navigate a relationship with an adult child living at home who is angry with us because of who we voted for and feels the need to pull back from our relationship? Would you say there’s more virtue in overcoming stubborn sin after a significant struggle or in never having a struggle with that sin in the first place?

Hello and welcome again to the hashtag as Sarah ask podcast. I'm Amy Hall and this is Greg Kockel. Hello Greg. Hello Amy. All right. So we have some. We have a good time here. Yes. And we're not doing

anything. We're just enjoying each other's company. That's what we're chuckling and getting launched into our show. All right. All right. Well, this is kind of a serious practical question here. This first question comes from Ethan. How can those who are happy with the election results show compassion to those who are devastated by it? Any advice on how to handle the conversations from those such as gay slash trans who think the world is ending? Yeah, there's been some concern about this in the news. People have talked about this and I know that schools, some universities, are taking time off and having special classes

on how to deal with, well, first of all, I think you can, how do we show compassion? You just show compassion, you be sympathetic. That is, don't berate them, don't find fault with them personally. You might even say, well, I can understand how you might be concerned about things. Do you mind if I make a suggestion?

There you go. So you're looking for permission. And here's what I suggest. Why don't you wait and see? Why don't you wait and see? Another thing that I'd suggest is what exactly are your specific concerns? And here you want them to be concrete. I actually watched some interviews of people on the street where they were expressing concerns, but it got, it was very difficult for them to come up with

very specific things. Well, here's what's going to happen that we know are going to happen that are going to be devastating to me and my group or human rights or whatever. So have them be specific about what they think is going to eventuate. So maybe that's the first question. What do you think is going to happen? What is your concern? And that's kind of what do you mean by that question? And then when they raise these concerns, suggest this, well, why don't you write those things down and then wait and see? So that's the second part. The wait and see is the second. Because, and this is just a general principle for life, most of our worries are never realized. Most of the things that we're concerned about happening don't actually happen, which I think is reason why Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount said, essentially, shrink your concerns down to one day size. Worry about today's problems, tomorrow has enough difficulty of its own. Let's take it

one day at a time. I think that's wise. I'm chuckling because I'm saying, yeah, Jesus, you got it right there. That was a pretty good one, you know. But sometimes we don't realize how wise the thing that Jesus tells us is. And this is one of those, okay? And I'm reminded frequently when I face difficulties in my own life and thinking, and this is one of those, okay, and I'm reminded frequently when I face difficulties in my own life and thinking, okay, just one day at a time, just take one day at a time, because the fact is many things that we worry about don't ever take place.

So we've wasted our worry and got stressed out for nothing. And this is something just to pass on to others. You might even say Jesus offered this bit of advice. Most people like Jesus, especially when it's good advice that is not in a sense spiritually freighted. So here's what he said, worry about one day at a time. Write all these things down that you're concerned about. Fair enough, got it.

Then see if they take place. Just watch as things unfold. Not much you can do about it. But at least, I mean, now you can be worried about it. But my suspicion is, and by the way, this isn't a political statement that I'm making with regards to the particulars of the incoming administration. This is a principle for life. My suspicion is most of the things you're worried about are not going to take place the way you're concerned about them, but we'll see. And when they actually take place, then start using up your kind of emotional capital on that. But don't use your emotional capital up on things that haven't happened yet, and it's not clear they will happen.

They may, they may not. Wait it out. That would be, I think, a best way to be compassionate, sympathetic, I get it. I can understand why you'd feel that way. What are your concerns? Specify, write those down, see if they happen. But don't worry about them until they do happen.

What do you think? Kind of a way of approaching it. And I think I would add to that maybe the note that, you know, in elections, there's a lot of rhetoric going around and people are trying to scare you about the other side. And so I really think a lot of what you've heard is overblown. So maybe I can even help you with those concerns because maybe you haven't heard from someone directly who disagrees with you.

Maybe I can allay some of those fears for you because I'm just interested in, you know, a lot of people are interested in just turning you against the other side so you don't even hear. But, so let's just actually talk about it and maybe I can set some of those fears aside. My suspicion is this, I think it's a good suggestion, but it's more risky. Because now you kind of have to make the case that their specific fears are unfounded with regards to the administration coming in. You can make your own decision about that, and we're not weighing in on that one way

or another, but in the first case, you're talking about a life principle. Most of the things we worry about don't come take place. So write them down and leave them there and then keep your eye open and see what happens. Don't worry about them until they happen. And I think, of course, that may not assuage their concerns, but then if you're able to take the next step and they're open to it, or saying, you know, this, it's unlikely from what I know that this particular fear will be realized based on this information regarding the president-elect or the new administration or something like that, but that's a separate step.

And I realize that, yeah, it is a risk to have to defend anything or explain anything in a way they'll understand. And what I was going to say is that there actually is a difference in worldview here. So there is a sense in which probably some of the things they are afraid of will happen. For example, if they are very for males competing in women's sports, if they believe themselves to be women, that could change. I mean, that actually could change. This could be something that changes.

So that's why it could be risky because you're just in a completely different worldview. So my other suggestion, depending on who they are and where you think they are and what their fears are, because they might have actual real concerns that oppose their worldview. I think where I would take this is to move it into more of an evangelism situation because you can share with them because their fear is that, you know, they're devastated because of the future. And this is where you can come alongside them and say, you know, sometimes we're all in a position, we all get in a position where we're very fearful about the future and I'm just so grateful that I can trust a sovereign God who has proved himself to be loving and caring and who cares

about justice. I'm grateful that I can trust him. And I would love to talk to you more about him because I think if you could trust him, then you would probably feel a little bit better because even if things go wrong, you know there's still someone in charge. So I think I would probably move it that direction ultimately. All right. This is a similar question from Mary Beth. How do we navigate the relationship with an adult child living at home who is angry with us because of politics, i.e. who we voted for, and feels she needs to move out to pull back from our relationship?

Well, it strikes me that the most important thing in this circumstance, Amy, is the relationship. And there are times when, because of the relationship, and I face this myself in my own home in different ways, because of the importance of the relationship, and let me back up for it, and this isn't just across the believer or non-believer divide. This has to do with human interaction, regardless of where the spiritual commitments happen to lie. The New Testament especially places a tremendous premium on peace in relationships. There's a verse in Romans chapter 12, which is just filled with practical advice that says, if possible, as

far as it's within your power, be at peace with all men. All men, Christians, non-Christians. Now the way Paul puts it there, it's clear that it's not always going to be possible, and it's not always going to be within your power. Nevertheless, we are still to do what we can do to bring peace, okay? And when there are, especially when there are political differences,

as opposed to spiritual differences, there's much more gravity to spiritual differences. And if you change a person's mind, when it comes to spiritual things, this has huge ramifications. But on political things, if you change one person's mind, that's one vote. It doesn't have huge ramifications.

It's important, we should be doing that, but the weightiness is different. And so when it comes to political kinds of things, cultural kinds of things, it is better to do the greater good, which is to maintain the peace in the relationship and to build the strength of the relationship, which by the way can be a productive platform

on which to make a difference in the future if you still have that good relationship. It's more important to do that than to press a point that's political that ends up significantly undermining the relationship. So in those circumstances, in both physical or I should say non-spiritual and spiritual things, I'm going to look really hard at trying to maintain that relationship. For the value of the relationship and the additional value.

This isn't just utilitarian, but the additional value isn't the only thing. The most important thing is the intrinsic value of the relationship, but that also, if the relationship is good, gives you a platform of which maybe sometime in the future to speak to either of these categories of things, whether it's political or spiritual.

So, and especially on political issues, why create division in your family because of that? These relationships are really important. Now, maybe the other person won't countenance you. They're gonna say, oh, you voted this way in the last election, I don't want anything to do with you. There's not much you can do.

You're not gonna change your vote. But what you can purpose to do is not pursue those issues in the midst of a relational circumstance so that you're not driving people away for reasons that don't justify that and I think political reasons are examples of that. My suggestion really depends on the person. But I think from what I've seen online and the reason for the anger, I think at root is a belief that the motivations of the other side are evil.

So it's not just you have the wrong ideas or your ideas aren't going to work as well as mine. It's more of a you are motivated by evil and you want to do evil. You're haters, for example. There's an example of that. So I suspect that's part of the reason why the child is so angry, because they are assuming you have motives that you probably don't have. So depending on the person and if you think this would do any good, one thing you might want to do is say, just sit the child down and just say, look, I don't expect you to agree with me, but it's very important to

me that you understand me. And I want to explain these issues that you are so opposed to that I voted for, I want to explain why I'm voting for them so that you understand why that it's not coming from a place of hatred and evil. But I actually have good reasons. I've had conversations with people on Facebook over the years where they've been very surprised. They've never heard, they've never heard any reasons why someone would want limited government, for example. They've never heard it before. And I've had someone say, why didn't anyone tell me this before? So don't assume that they actually know why you voted a certain way, because they're hearing other people attribute motives to you that you don't have.

So if you think they would be willing to just say, look, there's no pressure to agree with me, I'm not going to try to convince you, but I do want you to understand the reasons why. And maybe I'm wrong, but at least you'll know that I'm not this evil person you can't live in a house with. So I think that's what I would try next. Yeah, I agree with that. I think that's a good point. Just keep in mind that this presumes a certain level

of goodwill on the side of the other person. And they may perceive this, oh, I just want you to understand my view. They may perceive that as, well, that's defensiveness, and now you're trying to persuade me, and I don't want any of that. So you have to be alert, and I think're trying to persuade me, and I don't want any of that. So you have to be alert, and I think you mentioned this earlier on, Amy,

you have to be alert to their actual willingness to hear what you have to say to hear you out. And if you think that goodwill is there, it's great for the reasons that you mentioned. Some things are so, especially very soon after an election, the nerves are so raw that any attempt to kind of clarify one's view is going to be viewed as proselytizing, I think. And that, so you might want to wait a few months when things cool off a little bit to talk about it. If you're able to talk about it, this is great what you said, because a lot of people just

don't understand. They don't see it because they are in an echo chamber, they're in a bubble, and they only hear their own side and the view, and they don't hear the other rationale. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I've seen some strange statements on Facebook from long-time friends that I literally don't even understand what they're referring to when they're talking about what people were voting for. So anyway, hopefully that helps a little bit. Now we're going to switch gears just a little bit, Greg. This question comes from Brian. Would you say there is more virtue in being one who's had a significant struggle with

stubborn sin and overcome it, or for one who's never had a struggle with that sin in the first place? Well, this is an interesting question, and I'm thinking about the way it's phrased, more virtue in. One could argue that if you never struggled with that sin to begin with, that itself represents a virtue. The virtue of not having that kind of sin appeal to you. And in one way of understanding the ethical project

or the moral project called virtue ethics. The whole idea of ethics is to be a certain type of person. Curious on this view, people will say, well, you do something and then someone says, well, thank you so much. Oh, no problem. It was nothing. Okay. Now, when we say it's, that is meant to kind of let people know, well, I didn't really do anything that great because it didn't put me out. It wasn't contrary to my purposes. But that's the view of ethics, that ethics is a duty that is a burden to do, and so we're just trying to let people think, oh don't count that so good because it didn't help me. But in virtue ethics, it's the opposite. If it wasn't burdensome to you, that it just kind of came naturally, that's actually the benefit. That's what

we want. This is like Jesus. Jesus was virtuous through and through. He didn't struggle with doing the right thing, because he always did the right thing because of his inherent virtue. So the person here that is being characterized, you know, is that never had the temptation regarding this thing. That actually is evidence, probably, of a strong virtue in that area, that person. But there is a different virtue that's associated with struggling against evil in your own life and overcoming it. So there are virtue in both areas, but there are different virtues. Is that what you? I'm laughing because I had two points here and they were exactly two points. Because my first point is, it can't be that you have more virtue or every single

sinner would have more virtue than Jesus since he never struggled. So that can't be. But see, that's a clever way of putting it. Same point, but you said it much better than I did and much briefer. But the idea is, I also think you learn different things and you experience different aspects of God when you struggle against a sin and overcome and when you don't struggle against that sin. So, say when you're not struggling, you experience the flourishing

in that area that God intended for you. When you do struggle, you experience God's grace and His power in a different sort of way. And since we all struggle with something, we're all experiencing that, but I think both of those things glorify God and there's nothing, there are just different ways of glorifying God. Now of course, we are supposed to be conforming ourselves to the image of Christ and that is the goal. So it's better to be virtuous and not have sin than to not. I mean, that's obvious.

That's Jesus. But there are still things we learn as we are struggling with sin. And of course, there's more virtue in struggling against sin and overcoming it than in not struggling against that sin at all, but giving into it. So I guess those are the three different levels we're talking about here. And I have this conviction, it's a theodicy, it has to do with the problem of evil, and why God allowed evil in the world. I talk about this in the story of reality, but I'm not hanging out too tightly on it,

but it is a thought I have that maybe God allowed evil in the world so that we would struggle against evil to develop virtue. And others have pointed out, you can't develop the virtue of long suffering if there's nothing to suffer regarding, okay, as one example. But there's others as well. God could have, you know, just made us morally perfect. I think that's going to happen in the resurrection. But I do think that there's some kind of growth or benefit that accrues to us eternally by developing certain virtues in the face of evil that will have a consequence for us in the next life.

So, of course that raises the question, how could, if we're all gonna be morally perfect, how could there be distinctions? But I had one person offer this illustration. He said, you could have a 100 watt light bulb that's perfect, or you can have a 2000 watt light bulb that's perfect. They're both perfect, but they, in what they do,

but their illumination capability is different. So I thought that was helpful. And also a verse that intimates this is in 1 Timothy. Paul says, you know, physical exercise profits a little, all right? But godliness is a means of great gain, for it holds a promise not only for this life, so you accrue benefit from being godly in this, but also for the life to come. Now everybody's going to be resurrected and in a resurrection body, but those who worked at godliness in this life are going to have something greater in the next life that those who did not work at godliness as much are going to have.

And even though each is fully resurrected, and my dad, actually today I think is the 13th anniversary of my own dad's passing, he became a Christian late in life, the last year and a half of his life or so, maybe two years. It was a radical transformation. But my dad pretty much went into glory, as it were, smoking. Oh man. Naked and smelling of smoke is my line. It's funny because my dad was a smoker for many years and then he quit and then he ended up dying of cancer probably as a result of the smoking.

But my dad, because he became a Christian late in life, he didn't have a whole lifetime to develop virtue and godliness. So he went into eternity as a babe in Christ. And that's why he said, naked and smelling of smoke. So if you think of the Corinthians passages, it talks about wood hay stubble being burned off, you know? So that's, he didn't have any of that. He just had wood hay stubble. He didn't have any precious jewels really to carry with him, following the metaphor there. And that's why the idea of, I'm going to wait until I'm almost dead before I'm going to follow Christ, that'll get into heaven, but I can do what I want until then, it's dumb, because it doesn't

understand the calculus, the eternal calculus of godliness in this life. So those are the verses and the principles that kind of guide my thinking about this theodicy that God has placed us in a fallen, allowed a fallen world for us to gain something that we would not gain if the world had not been fallen. That's called a soul-making theodicy, but there's merit to it. And I would say that in all of our being conformed to the image of Christ, the very highest thing is that we come to know Him better. We come to know who He is better. That's what shapes us to become more like Him.

We come to know His grace better. We come to know His power better and His love for us better. That's all wrapped up in our killing our sin and becoming more like Him. We're looking at Him, we're becoming like Him, and we're knowing Him better in the midst of all of our changing and all of our killing of our sin. And that's the highest thing in all of eternity, is to know God and to enjoy Him forever. Right.

Well, thank you, Ethan. And thus says the Westminster Foundation. Thank you, Ethan and Mary Beth and Brian. We love hearing from you. Send us your question on X with the hashtag STRask or go to our website at str.org. All you have to do is look for our podcast page and look for hashtag STRask. There's a little link there right at the top left-hand corner, and it just says submit a question,

and we would love to hear your question. Thank you for listening. This is Amy Hall and Greg Kockel for Stand to Reason.