#STRask - If God Created Everything, Doesn’t That Mean He Created Evil?

Episode Date: February 10, 2025

Questions about whether God creating everything means he created evil too, and how a grief counselor can answer a question about whether God causes or allows death and sickness.   How should my daughter answer a friend at school who said, “If God created everything, he must have created evil too, like cancer, right?” As a grief counselor, how should I answer this question I’m often faced with: Does God cause or allow death and sickness?

This is the hashtag STRask podcast from Stand to Reason starring Greg Kockel and Amy Hall. Oh man. Okay. I'll just let that one slide. I know you to do that again? I know you hate that. I know you hate it. I'm sorry. Okay. We're going to start with a question from Hannah.

Okay. My 10-year-old is witnessing to a friend at her school and the friend said to her, if God created everything, he must have created evil too, right? Like God made cancer, right? She's unsure of how to answer her. Could you help clarify this for both of us? Resources for young apologetics. Yeah, there's a, this is a complex question

and gets raised a lot of time by people who are very sharp and aggressive. It turns out there's a kind of simple way of answering it. And the way I characterized the nature of the fall in the story of reality is that the world got broken. When God made the world, it was all very good. And then human beings did something that broke a lot of things. It broke their relationship with God, it broke their relationship with each other, it broke their relationship with the environment, and it broke the whole world, is the way I characterize it.

Now I like that way of thinking about it, because it's a very vivid picture. In fact, when I teach, especially students at Summit, for example, about this, I ask a student for a pencil. I want to borrow a pencil. So they give me a pencil and then I say, is this a good pencil? They say, yeah, it's a good. What makes it good? Well, it does what it's supposed to do. Okay? Then I'm in front of the audience, I break the pencil in half, which really shocks them. And then I say, now is this a good pencil? No, it's a bad pencil.

But what has been added to the pencil to make it bad? Well nothing's been added. Something's been taken away. The goodness has been taken away. The usefulness has been taken away. It doesn't do what it's supposed to do. And so this is an illustration that is meant to make the point that evil isn't a thing. It isn't a stuff.

If evil was a thing and God created everything, then God created evil. I mean, that follows. Well, God did create everything, but evil's not a thing. And it's a, what philosophers would call a privation or something missing. If you think of the words we use for evil, like unrighteousness or malpractice or something like that It's it's it's a it's a brokenness. It's a it's a loss It's not an addition Impurity okay, and in fact the word for sin in the Bible

Hamartia the Greek word Means missing the mark. You're not on center. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. So all of these are different ways of showing that badness is a reduction of something good. It isn't an addition of something substantive that needed to be created, okay? Sometimes the way people think,

we'll talk about the fallenness of the world, they'll say, well, that shouldn't be that way. That ain't the way things are supposed to be. The world is not the way it's supposed to be. Well, it started out the way it was supposed to be, God made it good, and then human beings did something to break the good thing. And so when you have cancer, God didn't create cancer, that's part of the brokenness. This is the thing that followed from the fall, the brokenness of the world and the evil in the world. So that's the,

I think, the best way to explain somebody, and I think the pencil is a good example of trying to show that badness is privation. It's something that has been taken away. The goodness has been decreased. Now this notion, by the way, of badness not being a thing in itself, is, it's been around for a long time. Augustine talked about this, for example, that was 1800, 1600 years ago. So this is a fairly simple and legitimate way of characterizing the nature of the fall. And our language seems to capture that too, and I gave a bunch of examples of that kind of thing, the way we talk about it. This isn't the way it should be kind of thing.

And it's an appropriate way of helping people understand that that badness or that evil is the lack of something good. The goodness came from God and when goodness gets depleted That's what we call badness and Sometimes it's depleted a lot sometimes just a little depending on the circumstance and those are degrees of badness that we face but For the most part that I think is the best way of characterizing It's completely consistent with the biblical record and it's philosophically sound.

And I would say when it comes to something like cancer, there is a sense in which, while like you said, God created everything good, there is a sense in which God did curse the land, and here's what it says in Romans 8, for the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God, for the creation was subjected to futility not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God." So the fall, the result of the fall was everything being subjected to futility.

And that's when things like cancer and decay and all these things come into play. So in that sense, yes, God subjected everything to futility, but that's not because he created and he wanted it and that was the way things were supposed to be. It's because of the fall. And so there's that moral element that came into it. And then this is when God subjects everything to futility, because now that's part of his plan to redeem everything and to reveal himself. But probably that part of the story, I don't know if she

would even come up with that angle. That's kind of the more theologically, sophisticated way, biblical way of characterizing it, but it's an important part of the puzzle to understand that in a sense the theology of it. But there's another thing that I explained with the broken pencil that's kind of a there's a pedagogy there It makes it easier to teach right explain especially the young I would definitely start with that if she asks more than it Maybe add the why? Why things fell and you'd have to go into that a little more but the whole idea that Evil is just a loss of the good. I think it's the main thing here. Yeah, think about

one of the questions I ask in a presentation where I talk about this is I say, did you ever eat in a donut hole? And then I have to clarify, not those gut bombs, those little round gut bombs you eat at the, you know, after church, but the hole itself. No, because you can't eat the hole because that's where the donut ain't. And same thing with a shadow. A shadow doesn't have its own existence. It's just the place where light is prevented from shining. And so in both those cases, we have examples of things we're very familiar with, where we can talk about a thing as real after a fashion, even though it doesn't have any, and here's a fancy philosophical word, any ontology. It doesn't have any existence in itself.

It's not a stuff, but it's where the stuff is missing. So to continue the donut hole metaphor, evil is a hole in goodness. Evil is a hole in goodness. It doesn't have substance of itself. It's where goodness is missing. Well, let's go on to a question from Debbie that follows along that topic. As a grief counselor, I'm often faced with the question, does God cause or allow death and sickness? This is especially difficult when about a younger person. How do you respond to this question?

Thank you. Well, there's no question that God allows it, all right? There are all kinds of terrible things that happen in a fallen world that God lets happen because he has the power to do whatever he desires. Now the question is, what kind of God would allow bad things to happen? And the answer is an all-wise God, because he's the kind of God that can see all of the factors that are involved, and he has larger purposes in mind for what he allows to happen.

All right? And, I mean, this is a whole topic of its own, how God uses evil in the world, but let's just leave it on a fairly simple level. Most Christians can reflect on instances in their lives where something terrible happened in the moment to them. That is, they think, this is bad. I don't want this to happen. Take this away. And then God just allowed it to happen. And then down the line, they look back and see that was the thing that God purposed to use for a much greater good in my life than would have taken place if I hadn't encountered that trial or hardship or difficulty at all. Johnny Tata, Johnny Erickson Tata is a great example

of this and she'd acknowledge it. What God, it was that terrible accident where she broke her neck, became a quadriplegic many, many years ago, back in the 60s I think. And yet God has since then used her life in such an incredible way in virtue of the accident. Okay? So yes, God does allow all kinds of things. Doesn't mean he necessarily causes them in the way most people think of it, but certainly he allows things to happen.

People who do foolish things like dive off into shallow water and break your neck. But for Christians, he redeems those for good. And that's a very, very important promise from Romans chapter 8. But then there's an additional part to this question, and does he ever cause sickness? And the answer to that is yes. There's quite a number of cases where God brings plague upon people as an act of punishment,, or discipline, or whatever. So yes, God can cause that too, but again, the temptation is to think if he either causes it or lets it happen that he is culpable, he is blameworthy.

And the answer is no, he's not blameworthy because he's good. And anything that he chooses to do, he does for a good reason. And sometimes we see that over time, and sometimes we don't. But even if we don't, it doesn't mean that God isn't good in what he's chosen to do. And look, if God isn't good, then there is no source of goodness at all. Let me just say that again. If God isn't good, then there is no source of goodness at all. Let me just say that again. If God isn't good, there's no source of goodness because you can only be obliged to be good to a person,

not just as some abstract concept of kindness or love or something like that. Now this is getting a little bit abstract, I think for people and maybe philosophical. But the point I'm making is, the answer to both questions is yes, but God, that doesn't create culpability or blame or moral responsibility to God because he's a good God, he has a plan, and sometimes we see the plan and sometimes we don't. But the plan is always for something good. Yeah, I think it basically comes to the same thing, whether he's causing or he's allowing, he's still sovereign over it.

He still could have stopped it. So you have to wrestle with this idea because he could have stopped it. So with that in mind, like I was reading Job last night, and even Job, and hopefully people know the story, Satan wants to show that Job doesn't really love God, so he wants to cause him all this harm and God says, go ahead. Well Job's response, of course he doesn't know why it's happening. All these different things happen. His children die. He ends up getting all sorts of sicknesses and boils and horrible physical problems. But Job saw God as ultimately being in charge of this because what he says is, shall we – because the wife was saying, just curse God and die. Yeah, great.

Great. Help me, right? And he says, shall we indeed accept good from God and not accept calamity? So even he saw God as the ultimate source of it being in control of all of this. Now we know that God does sometimes ordain things that he hates. For example, the murder of Jesus, like that's a sin, that's not something God loves, because he's working through a fallen world and fallen hearts to do something good. And I will also, oh, before I go into the next part of that, this doesn't mean that

he loves those things as an end in themselves. So just because God ordains someone's sickness, that doesn't mean He loves sickness. That means He's using the sickness in the fallen world to accomplish something beautiful and good, ultimately. Now as you said, sometimes He does this for reasons of justice, and we see that with the kings of Israel who did bad things and He brings these horrible sicknesses on them or the people or whatever it is. But when it comes to his people, he has other reasons and those are things for their good. As we see in Romans 828, God works all things together for good for those who love him who are called according to his purpose. And the important thing to remember here is that suffering is not the worst thing that

can happen to us. And comfort is not the best thing that can happen to us. So as we're looking at God, whether bringing it into their life, it's always purposefully because he's in control, whether it's being allowed or he's ordaining it some other way, whatever it is, his highest goal is to make us like him, to know him and to love him. And the Lord disciplines those he loves, he does that through suffering. But again, we know the promise that he does all things for good. So you mentioned the idea that if God's

not good, there is no standard of goodness. That's hugely important. Another thing that's very practical and objective that you can look at is the cross. He proved his love on the cross. He absolutely proved it. There's no reason for Jesus to die for enemies unless he loves. So whenever you are suffering and you're tempted to think that God is punishing you, go read Romans 8, remind yourself that God is for you, and look at the cross and remind yourself he's already proved that he loves you. Now one other interesting thing about Job, and I think you brought up

Johnny Erickson Tata, the same thing happens here, but as I said, the devil was trying to prove Job didn't really love God. He loved something more, so that when God took it away, then he would turn against God. So, what happens in Job, and this is the incredible thing about that book, when you look at all of his terrible suffering, the depth of his suffering reveals the glory of God because Job loved God more than he hated his suffering. So the worse his suffering gets, the more we see, wow, Job loved God more than that. He trusted him more than that. All of that suffering. So we start to see how great God is the farther he descends, and I think the same is true with John Erickson Tata. I mean, there's this one verse right at the

beginning, Job 1.20, right after the first, you know, finding out all of his children are dead. And it says, Then Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head and he fell to the ground and worshiped. That is who I want to be. And that's who God wants all of us to be. He wants us to love him more than all of these other things. He wants us to desire him more than our comfort. And that's something I think he works on slowly over time with some people. Some people he does it very quickly, as he did with Johnny Erickson and Tata. But don't forget that this isn't just about revealing God's glory. This is also about our good. So never forget that. I think about, you know, when Jesus let Lazarus die, he let him die because he wanted to reveal his ability to raise people from the dead

and that was to show his glory. But we know it's also for Lazarus' good because what it says is he loved Lazarus, so therefore he waited two days for him to die. So he connects that with his love for Lazarus. So Lazarus being a part of that glorifying of God was for his good also. So it's not that God is using you for his own ends. He's working both of these things together. He's working for your good, but he's also working for his glory for the good of the whole creation. The bigger picture, so to speak. Yeah.

Yeah. That's creative insight. And so this, the fact that God's in charge is the only way that we can say there's purpose in everything. If he's not, then what are you going to say to somebody who's suffering? Oh, that's just, it's just gratuitous suffering. Tough luck. Yeah.

But at least you know when God is in charge charge because he's proved who he is on the cross mainly, but in all sorts of ways in the Bible, because of that, you know that there is a purpose and you can hang on to that. I don't know how I would endure anything if I didn't believe that. I think sometimes people think you don't want to tell people that God is in charge over the suffering because then they'll blame God. Well, if he's not in charge of it, then it's pointless. That's horrible. Which is where the world find itself with suffering and know God. Right. You know, the promise that you cited in Romans 8, we know that God causes all things to work for good,

is qualified for those who love him and are called according to his purpose. So there, you hear people in the world, in movies and stuff, they say, well, it's all for the good, it's all for the good, or it's all good, or whatever, it's all for the good. No, a lot of stuff isn't for the good, it's just for the bad.

There's lots of suffering that, No, a lot of stuff isn't for the good. It's just for the bad. There's lots of suffering that probably the largest magnitude of suffering is pointless. It serves no good whatsoever. It's a consequence of a fallen world. God's promise to redeem suffering for good is only a promise to those who love him and are called according to his purpose. I would put a little twist on that. I would say even the suffering of those who aren't his people are still doing good in that it's glorifying God in some way. Because like we mentioned when God is punishing or there's judgment of some kind. So I would say I think—

But it's not working for good in their life. It's not working for good in their life in that it's not making them like Christ. It's not shaping, it's not helping them know God better if they're not his people. It's not working the way it works in the lives of his people. Now, again, this is the only way you can know there's purpose in everything. And in fact, this is the answer, this is the only answer God gives Job. The whole end of the book is all about, all he says is, look, I do, I am in control over all things. That's his whole, that's his only point. So the book ends up being very, very simple. Number one, God is in control. And number two, Job trusts God and loves him more than he hates his suffering. Those are the two biggest points that you find there.

And so our job, as we're helping people through suffering, is to point them to the goodness of God, to help them understand that things are not out of control, they're not gratuitous, they're not random, that there is a purpose. And we work on that by looking at who God is in the Bible. I feel like we say this almost every time we get together. You look at the past, you look at people's lives, you read John Erickson Tata's books, you watch her videos and that will help you to understand even just seeing her, seeing her in her pain, not reject God, helps you see the glory of God even though it's not directly. You're seeing that love that she has and his sustaining of her and even that will help you to glorify God. Well, we're out of time, Greg.

Well, you ended it well, Amy. Well, thank you, Hannah, and thank you, Debbie. This is obviously, the biggest question I think on everybody's mind is always about evil and suffering. I know this just from answering questions at the reality conferences that we do with students. A good 75% of the questions have to do with evil and suffering. So this is something we all need to work on and luckily the entire Bible is filled with it so we're not on our own.

We can read about it. Go home and read Job tonight. It might take you a few hours, but it's a long one. Yeah. All right. Don't pay any attention to what his friends say. Just jump over that section. Start at the beginning, then read the end. Well, what's interesting about the Friends is that they see God so transactionally. You

know, they're saying, God does this, we do this, God does this. Whereas Job is seeing God more personally, where he's trusting him without knowing all these things and not imagining that there's some sort of transactions with God going on, that he's seeing him more as a person that he's in relationship with. So even from that, as long as you know which ones are saying the right things and which ones aren't, it's just a fascinating book. So I recommend it. Thank you, Amy. I recommend you read the Bible. There's a new one from me. All right, thank you so much. We hope to hear your question. You can send it on X with the hashtag STRask or you

can go to our website at str.org. We look forward to hearing from you. This is Amy Hall and Greg Kogel for Stand to Reason.