#STRask - What Does a Personal Relationship with God Look Like on a Practical Level?

Episode Date: May 27, 2024

Questions about how to explain what a personal relationship with God looks like on a practical level and whether it’s okay to pray to Jesus and to the Holy Spirit. How do I explain to my 20-year-old son what a personal relationship with God looks like on a practical level? What are your thoughts on praying to Jesus and to the Holy Spirit?

All right, everyone. Thank you for listening to the hashtag SDR Ask podcast from Stand to Reason. I'm sorry, Amy. She started laughing because I started chuckling right away because she started differently this morning. And I thought, oh, that's cool. And then she couldn't contain it. But hi, Amos. Hi, Greg.

All right. In case you're wondering, I'm Amy Hall and this is Greg Kokel. And Greg, you ready for your first question? Yes, ma'am. All right. This one comes from Ali. How do I explain to my 20-year-old son what a personal relationship with God looks like on a practical level? Well, the reason I'm pausing is it seems to me that this wouldn't be hard to do—apparently it is because Ali's asking the question—in light of one's own personal relationship with God.

In light of one's own personal relationship with God. So if I were in that position, what I would be communicating is that my religion is not just a set of convictions, beliefs, but there's an interactive element on a regular basis with God. So I am talking to him throughout the day. I have time in the morning I spend with Him, but throughout the day. I'm enjoined by Scripture, which is another part of the way I understand God. He speaks to me through Scripture. I speak to Him through prayer, which, by the way, is the biblical model, just saying that there's no scriptural teaching of any sort on what's called by some people listening prayer. Like, we pray to God, and then we talk to God, and God talks to us. This is non-biblical, okay? In other words, there's nothing in the Bible supporting the idea. I think there are

problems, too, but it's non-biblical, and that ought to raise a flag for people. In any event, so I'm interacting with God, and I'm emotionally engaged with God in the sense that as I've grown in this relationship, I find that I'm depending upon him more and trusting in him more for difficult things that he allows to come into my life. So, I mean, it's always in a certain sense. Relationships in general are hard to describe, even human relationships. What's the nature of a person's relationship with another person? Well, it depends on whether they're married or whether they're friends or they're co-workers or whatever. But if you were to get down to what is the interactive day-to-day

nature of that, I think it's a little bit ineffable, hard to explain. But in any event, a little bit ineffable, hard to explain. But in any event, the idea is a sense of interaction, communication, and in the case of our relationship with God, it is—there's a—I was going to say a hierarchy. That's not what I mean. He's our Father, and we're His children, okay? We're not peers. He's our Lord, and we are His servant, okay? He is the sovereign, and we are His subjects. So these are all biblical characterizations of the relative position of God and us, and so each of those entails a little bit different kind of dynamic. So he's our Lord. He's the sovereign. We're the subject.

So we are obliged to obey, but it's not a cold relationship based on legal obligation. It is a warm, filial relationship like a father to a son or to a daughter. So even though I think it's hard to describe the nature of our relationship, I think what Ali needs to do is to just reflect on, I don't know if Ali is a woman or a man, but... Oh, it could be Ali. Oh, Ali. I'm not sure. as a woman or a man, but... Oh, it could be Allie. Oh, Allie. I'm not sure. Okay. On Allie's own relationship, and then try the best they can to describe it. The key here is there's an affective

element and a personal element, not just a positional element. There's God, and I'm here. This is good theology, and I affirm the theology, okay? That's, I think, what people used to mean when they—and they still mean it, I think—when during the Jesus movement, people would say, Christianity is not a religion, it's a relationship. Well, of course it's a religion, but the relational aspect is a key part of the kind of religion that Christianity is. I think if you ask a Muslim, and I checked this out with Alan Schliemann, they would not talk about God as being in a relationship with him, because I think from their theology, that would diminish God in some way. Or, of course, Buddhists don't have a belief

in God. It's not part of their religion, and Hinduism doesn't really work the same way. So, and I don't even know about Judaism. I think it would be appropriate in Judaism, because we see Old Testament characterization, but I think that Jews who are religious Jews, I wonder if they would characterize their religion as a relationship, too. Maybe some would. But in any event, this is a critical part of what Christianity entails, not just certain theology, theological facts that we affirm, or even that we trust in Jesus for our salvation, which obviously is critical and foundational, but that there is some kind of affective-interactive notion,

and the affective or subjective element varies with people and varies with time and varies with circumstances. But Paul says in Romans 8 that the Holy Spirit bears witness that we are, with our spirit, that we are children of God, and so we cry out, Abba, Father. And actually, that's what Abba means. It's like Daddy or Papa in the original language. That was the point of that kind of an endearing way of referring to Father. So that also communicates a sense of relationship there. So I guess the best thing I would do is I'd try to make a contrast between mere religious observance and something else that's more personal, and then talk about what that personal element is like in Ali's own life, and do the best possible to communicate that. I'm so glad you brought up the idea of God as Father, because I do think that is key to

understanding our relationship with God. And I think a lot of people don't think too much about the fact that we're adopted children of God. Someone who's really good about explaining this is Michael Reeves. He wrote Delighting in the Trinity. But the book I want to mention that he wrote here is, it's called Enjoy Your Prayer Life. It's a very short book, but it roots the idea of your prayer life in the relationship that you have with God as your Father. And I thought that was really helpful. So that might be helpful for you. The author again? Michael Reeves.

Is it W-E-R-E-E? Okay. Yes. He's the author of Delighting in the Trinity, which I recommend often on the show. Yes. And then another thing, and I'm going to get to a couple more really practical things. But another thing that you talked about, Greg, how it's not just trust that Jesus died for us and it's not just that. It's actually putting your trust in Him. And so there's a sense of what—let me back up a little bit. In James, when he talks about how your faith is shown by works, when he goes on to describe examples of that, the examples he gives are not good works like helping the poor or doing anything like that. They're actually works that reflect faith, works that reflect your trust in God's promises. That's a good point.

So as you are thinking about your relationship— Abraham and Rahab are the two examples there where they have to do something that's going to potentially cost them because they're trusting in God in different ways in each circumstance. Right. That's great. So part of your awareness of God as being present, as being your Father, is actively trusting in His promises. And that goes even beyond salvation. It goes to the idea that all things are working together for good. And I'm trying to think of other things, but there's all sorts of promises that God has made about the future, about Jesus' victory, about suffering, about all sorts of things.

And some of those things are hard to trust in because it's our inclination not to. You know, it's easy to get discouraged and to doubt that God loves you and all sorts of things. But this is where you have to actively trust in what God has said. And so that's, I think, a discipline that is a practical part of your relationship with God. But of course, to do that, you have to know what He said, and that's where the Bible reading comes in. And here's where, with any relationship, you have to make time for it. And you could obviously go to a point where it's legalistic, so that's not what I'm asking for. But in any relationship, you have to be intentional about spending time or you are going to start

drifting. So you have to be intentional. Make a plan. Make a plan for being with God every day or every other day or whatever it is. Just have a significant time with Him. Read the Bible because that's how you get to know Him. That's how you're spending time with him. Pray, express your trust to him, actively work at trusting in his promises. When you catch yourself not trusting in them, you can rebuke yourself and say, no, that's not true. Here's the truth. And you can adjust the way you think about God as you actively trust in him. So you've got prayer and Bible reading. And then, of course, there's worship, and that's not just by yourself, but a corporate worship where you're with other people. And that's where you're expressing your love for God, and that also will increase your love for God and your sense of his presence. So those are the practical ways, prayer, Bible reading, fellowship, and

worship, and being very intentional about spending time and trusting. Mm-hmm. Your comment about the relationship of the Father, recall when Jesus taught us to pray, it starts out, pray this way, our Father. Okay, so immediately Jesus is establishing the nature of our relationship, interactive relationship, for example, in prayer as a filial or a family relationship and God is our Father. So just to underscore the point there. Scripture and my concern about things like listening prayer and other modes that people have adopted that are not biblically sound. They're not taught in the Scripture as such, nor, as it turns out, even modeled in Scripture, ways of hearing from God. Because what ends up happening is people end up majoring in what they think God is telling them personally in their private revelation, but they aren't reading the text. And so their understanding about God may be emotionally high because of what they understand

these experiences to represent, yet at the same time, they are not theologically informed. And notice they're usually about you. That's right. So they're not really about God. I don't really hear people saying, oh, God told me who he was and what he was—they're usually what I should do, who I am. It's focused on you. Oh, he loves me or whatever. Yeah, always.

And this is a concern I have with Jesus Calling. For example, that devotional book by Sarah—what's her name? Young, I think. Sarah Young, yeah. I think the whole enterprise is seriously problematic. But one of the difficulties is, is here you're learning what Sarah thinks Jesus is saying to you, instead of focusing on what Jesus is actually saying to you, for example, in the Gospels, actually saying to you, for example, in the Gospels, or what those who Jesus trained to follow after him say about Jesus and about the larger project of following him and being a

Christian. It's instead, oh, Sarah Young is telling you what Jesus is saying. I have no confidence that he said any of those things, and nevertheless, that's another issue. But notice, oh, it's easier to read Sarah Young, and it's so sweet. It just feels so good because all these yummy things, okay, that Jesus is saying. Now, I've just read a few of the things to get a sense of it, but just the overall concept, I think, is problematic. But when you read in the text, you read a number of things about God's love and care for us, but also about His discipline as a Father. Hebrews chapter 12 talks about God disciplining us. And by the way, he's pulling that text, the writer of Hebrews,

from the Old Testament. He disciplines every child that he receives. I think that's in Proverbs. In any event, okay, well, that's not fun, you know. And then you read in 1 Peter about trials and tribulations and difficulties that the Father allows to come into your life, and we're supposed to trust him in the midst of this, and humble ourselves under his mighty hand. Oh, that doesn't sound so yummy. That's no fun. But those words are truth. And those are the truths that ought to be forming the foundation of our relationship with God. One more thing just occurred to me that I should have mentioned before. When you're in relationship with someone, you're spending a lot of time with them.

Another thing that happens is you start to become like them. You become like each other. So in the case of your relationship with God, what that looks like, it also looks like you becoming like Christ. That's what Romans 8 says God is doing in all of us. He's working all things together for good, but it says to conform us to the image of His Son. So that's part of what's happening in this relationship. So as you are learning who He is, you're also becoming like Him just by being around Him and having that influence you. But also because you have the Holy Spirit, you're also putting your sin to death so that you can be like Christ. So both things are happening, and that's also part of this personal relationship.

Okay, Greg, let's go to a question from Dan. In our small group, a question was asked when it comes to praying to the Trinity. What are your thoughts on praying to Jesus and praying to the Holy Spirit? Thank you. Well, I follow principally Jesus' directive in the Lord's Prayer. So I pray to the Father. However, I have actually—Rob Bowman has written a book about Jesus, and the New Testament, the Gospel, is defending a scriptural understanding, but he's got a chapter in there, and I don't think it's published yet. It's actually a rewrite of another book that he's done. And in this, there's a chapter on praying to the Father versus praying to Jesus, or the

Holy Spirit, I guess, would be included there. And he thinks it's okay, and he gives some examples. He sent me the chapter because I was interested in this. And one of the examples is that you have Stephen in the book of Acts who, as he's dying, he addresses Jesus. That's one example. He gave some more arguments there, but here's what I found though, and this is just a personal thing. I found that the more I pray to the Father, and I've gotten much better at that, and

I was encouraged by Tim Keller's teaching on the Lord's Prayer here, and it really tightened my, I guess to put it simply, my relationship with God the Father. And it's very easy for me to go to Him and to pray to Him and to be close to Him. But I find it's hard to feel close to Jesus, you know? And John Newton, all he did was write about Jesus. Everything was about Jesus. And so that has been something that's plagued me a little bit. I'm wondering, because I've always talked to the Father. And so now I've tried to start talking to Jesus a little bit more, because Jesus said he calls us his friends. And so he told the disciples, you know, and so I look to him as a friend, you know, and address him as a friend, and that is help.

So I think the biblical model, the standard model, is pray to the Father in the name of Jesus. And that doesn't mean reciting the phrase in the name of Jesus, because that phrase doesn't occur anywhere in the New Testament. At the end of any of the prayers in the New Testament, which are prayed by those people who understand that we're supposed to be praying in the name of Jesus. It means that is the means of access that we have to the Father. We are coming in the name of Jesus. Some people who are older might recall the phrase, stop in the name of the law, you know. In other words, it's the authority of the law that one who, like a policeman, says to stop. And by the same token, we are in the name of Jesus. We are going by his authority. We have access to the Father. Think of Hebrews chapter 10, because of what Jesus did. But in the power of the Holy

Spirit, in the power of the Holy Spirit. So there's the Trinitarian formulation that's part of prayer. But it doesn't mean you can't pray to Jesus or you can't pray to the Spirit. And I think it's appropriate to do so. It's not against Scripture in any sense, and there seem to be some examples, like I just mentioned to you, that Bob Bowman mentioned to me, where this happens. I can't remember the whole chapter, but he has a chapter devoted to that material. I'm trying to think if there's any place where people pray to the Holy Spirit. Can you think of any? I can't think of any. I mean, I can't think of a principled reason why you couldn't, but I was just trying to think if there was an example, but I don't think there is one.

I don't really know how to work this out because obviously the pattern is to pray to the Father, but obviously it's okay to pray to Jesus, so how do we know what to do when? Yeah, I think just do what you want. I actually think that the pattern should be as Jesus described. That's the standard, but I think that would be where you focus most of your time, because that's what Jesus described. And he says, ask anything of the Father in my name, and, you know, the Father will do it. Now, I don't actually understand how that works, but nevertheless, even Jesus is directing us characteristically to the Father. Well, thanks, Greg.

And thanks, Ali and Dan. We appreciate hearing from you. Send us your question on X with the hashtag STRASK, or you can go to our website at str.org. We look forward to hearing from you. Thanks for listening. This is Amy Hall and Greg Kokel for Stand to Reason.