Strict Scrutiny - New Year, Same Court

Episode Date: January 1, 2024

To start the new year off right, Jonathan Van Ness joins Kate, Leah, and Melissa to suggest some resolutions for the justices of the Supreme Court.Listen to us on Getting Curious: "What's Happening with the Supreme Court?" Follow us on Instagram, Twitter, Threads, and Bluesky

Mr. Chief Justice, may it please the court. It's an old joke, but when a man argues against two beautiful ladies like this, they're going to have the last word. She spoke, not elegantly, but with unmistakable clarity. She said, I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our legs. Welcome back to a new year of Strict Scrutiny, your podcast about the Supreme Court and the legal culture that surrounds it. We're your hosts. I'm Leah Littman. I'm Melissa Murray. And I'm Kate Shaw. And a very happy new year to everyone. And to celebrate, we are bringing you a special New Year's episode with a very special guest, Jonathan Van Ness of Queer Eye and Getting Curious with JVN. Jonathan, welcome to Strict Scrutiny. It's such a pleasure to have you.

Thank you so much for having me. I love you guys so much. Such a fan and so happy to be here. And Happy New Year! You're the first guest of 2024, which means that this is going to be the most auspicious Strict Scrutiny year ever. So listeners, Jonathan was kind enough to have us on Getting Curious with JVN where he anointed us the Destiny's Child of law professors. We had such a good time just riffing with you on your show and not just because of the Destiny's Child reference,

but we said we've got to extend this magic into a new year and we wanted to have you on our show. So thank you so much for being here. And as Kate mentioned, it's a very special New Year's episode. It's a vehicle for starting the year off right. And everyone is thinking about their own New Year's resolutions. And I imagine the justices, at least some of them, are also

thinking about how to change their ways and start this year off right. And so we thought, why don't we help them? We're all about service here, and we want to help them be better. And JVN, we know you want to help them be better. So we're going to help them out. We're going to celebrate their flaws and perhaps propel them into a better 2024 with some cheerful shade, with none other than the empresario of shade, JVN. Is that an intro or what? It was a really strong intro. With the new old ethics code that the justices took on last year, I just don't know. I mean, do we have anything else to ask for? It's perfect.

It's fixed. No notes. They're literally like, they're so ethical. I almost feel like we just I'm scared. Are we going to get in trouble for them being so ethical? I mean, we're definitely in the good place now. For sure.

I'm sorry we freaked out on them so bad. No, we really owe – I think we owe Justice Thomas an apology. It was a misunderstanding. Just a misunderstanding. And they cleared it up, and I'm so grateful they did. Well, we will still try to find some constructive input that we can give to the justices, even after the ethics code. And the way we're going to do that, I think, is just to march through the justices one by one. We'll go in order of seniority.

And we are going to try our best to launch them into 2024 better than ever, or at least the best versions of themselves that they can be, you know, given what we all have to work with. This part of the episode is called Siri Autumn's Shade. I'm just having such a physical reaction to this, like, listing them in order of seniority. It makes me feel like when you're going to talk about, like, the Magnificent Seven, obviously the 1996 women's gymnastics team that, like, won our first team gold medal. Or if you were talking about, like, 92, which was, like, our first team medal, we got a bronze. But it's, like, when you're you're like thinking about all of them.

And seniority order is just like a whole other level. Like you guys are on this whole other fucking level. There's like the seniority order just like takes it to this whole other place. For me, I'm – because I don't even know if I can – can I think of that off the top of my head? I don't know. We're happy to take the lead on it. But it is a little bit of a send up of the ridiculousness of that institution in that they do literally everything in order of seniority. They sit, they speak, at least in conference, not in the oral arguments.

Part of it is in seniority order and part of it is just kind of a free-for-all. But it is just like a wildly hierarchical institution. And yeah, Melissa. Tell JVN about who has to get the door at conference. This is so wild. You'll hate this. They sit in, well, it was okay, you know, a year ago. It's the most junior justice, the newest member of the court has to get up to answer the door when they're in their private conference and someone knocks to drop off a paper or a cup of tea or what have you. And poor Justice Breyer, for like a decade, that was him.

It was a really long run of him as the most junior justice. And then, of course, the Trump justice came in and it was Barrett, you know, a year and change ago. But now it is our girl, Justice Jackson. No! We want better for her. We want better for her. This is why Sam needs to retire, right?

So we can get someone else to answer the door. Free KBJ. That's the lead reason it is i mean honestly it's kind of like a it's a pretty significant reason like i don't think she shouldn't have to like this is this is not first black woman on the court getting the door no one thought this through no one thought this through we need they need to write an amendment they should put that in the ethics code yeah like how about the biggest or the constitution yeah yeah the constitution like whoever's like much like who's ever like the biggest asshole

should have to... Has to get the door. If that was the... But a lot of people would be running for the door. That's the problem. Depending on the day, it would be Sam or Neil. They should do like a team vote.

Like if it was a team vote, I wonder who they would vote. Like if it was like an anonymous ballot. I think they mostly hate Neil the most. Yeah, I agree. I think he probably would get. Like, if it was, like, an anonymous ballot, right? I think they mostly hate Neal. Yeah, I agree. I think he probably would get voted off, I think, in a secret ballot.

Although Alito, too. God. Oh, but actually, then actually maybe someone who we like would get voted off because it... That's dangerous. Dangerous, yeah.

That's true. Yeah. I would worry about Justice Sotomayor. Oh, my God, yeah, because she is not afraid of the patriarchy she tells them about

and also like not to be that person who compliments like a Supreme Court justice's hair but like her waves and her haircut I just know

curls are poppin poppin for her they are so they always have been bouncy the shape is perfect perfect no no

I love her hair so much yeah it's great you know who's hair I don't hair so much yeah it's great you know who's hair I don't like as much I'm listening Jenny Thomas

and and and not even and not even that she's like you know Jenny Thomas it's just like also like it's not working for her

like with all that you know illicit dark money her hair is so big because it's full of insurrection with all that corruption money I just want to see Beyonce, I want to see Beyonce level

weed coming out of there. Blow, let it blow, Jenny. Yes. Let it come out, Jenny. And at the correspondence ball, I want like a fan like at the base of the stairs that doing,

which is just like. And blow. Yes. And then when it, and then when it blows in the wind, it'll reveal like, what's that word? What did they call the US after it turned into, Gilead. Yeah. When it winds, like, yeah, when the wind it'll reveal like uh what's that word um what did they call the u.s after it

turned into gilead yeah when it wins like yeah when the wind is like it spells out like gilead and you she's like jokes on you uh dummies anyway the adhd was bad there i'm sorry about that you guys i'm so sorry no no i i feel like we're giving out some resolutions for free right we just gave one to jenny so maybe we should kind of get to the justices. Let's go. Let's do it. Yeah, okay. All right, so up first, first among equals, the Chief Justice of the United States. What are the possible New Year's resolutions for this institutional steward who never puts a foot wrong?

Except when Congress comes calling for a subpoena. I'll put one out there. I want to see him try to tame those feral cats and face-eating leopards that he sits on the court with. He needs to get control of his peeps. That's like, you really can't do better. Yeah. Well, I would like to see the Chief Justice put a little more flair into his work.

And you mean sartorial flair. I mean sartorial flair. Chief Justice Rehnquist brought the noise. Like, you know, it took him a while to get there, but he put some bars on his sleeves and he got this from a Gilbert and Sullivan operetta. And I need to see a little flair. Like, you've been in this job for a zillion years. It's time to make it your own. And not just with a coulda, woulda, shoulda ethics code.

Do something big, like a cape, robe, or some bars, but make it your own. I know it's a new year. And also that the overturning of Roe was actually in 2022, which is kind of mind-blowing. But, like, I can't believe he did that still. Like, I don't know why I can't. But that fucking guy, these people. I just still can't get over it. I just can't. We're not over it.

He didn't actually overrule Roe. Are you going to come to the defense? Yeah, I can't believe I'm doing this. But didn't he vote? Didn't he vote to overturn? No, so he didn't vote to overturn Roe. This is why he needs to get control of his face-eating leopards and feral cats that he sits with. It was the other five Republican ghouls who voted to overturn Roe.

Wait, so he didn't? So the Chief Justice didn't vote to overturn? He joined them to agree that the Mississippi law should be allowed to stand. He just said, well, we don't really have to do it today. So I didn't overturn Roe is technically true. Wouldn't have overturned Roe in a couple of years. I would never say none of us would. But no, he did not vote.

He did not join the part of the Alito opinion that overturned Roe. Does everyone know that? Maybe not. Maybe not, but now they do. And this is why Leah's resolution is like literally number one for him. Like he's got to like be a chief justice in more than just name. No more Chino, serious chief justice. And I'll throw a couple more possible resolutions into the mix. One, testify before Congress, right? You have been invited. You basically gave them the back of the hand. If you actually think

that you guys are kind of cleaning up shop and do adhere to rigorous ethics standards, I mean, sidebar, no, no, you don't. And nothing in the ethics code should give any comfort. It's really this kind of anti-ethics code. As we've talked about on the show, it does in some ways less than nothing. But stand up in front of the Congress and in front of the country and defend yourself and your institution. Essentially sort of put up or shut up, I guess I would say, as opposed to this like little document you just put out and then don't actually have to answer any questions about.

So that's my advice to John Roberts. I'm going to piggyback on that. Also, be better at investigating leaks. Oh, my God. Like no more of this inspector gadget nonsense. Like get a real investigator. Right? The two documents, the ethics code, you know, the, like, air quotes ethics code, and the report on the investigation into the source of the role of just issuing these judicial opinions and actually you know do work in other you know lanes or venues do a less embarrassing job i'd

like to submit a piece of evidence um i hope i don't i hope this can you see his creepy nails i've never noticed this about him but but... Not super well in that picture. What do they look like? Can you describe them? Like, are they short? Are they, like... He has... Are they dirty nails? They're not dirty,

but I do feel that the nail length is a really peculiar length. It's a weird shape. They're very square and flat, but they're not short. Are they long? They're not short, but they're not long. They're this really...

It's long enough that a straight Midwesterner would be like, are you a f***? Do you like f***? You know, these f*** with these nails. Because it sounds like you're describing

that they're like square. Very manicured. They're very manicured. And my resolution for him would be to, let's get real. You know, let's get real.

Let's get curious. This is why we needed to have you on for the New Year's resolution show. Yeah, that's what I think about him. Wait, can I just ask a question? Is there a framed picture of John Roberts just under your desk? No, I pulled that up on my computer. I just Googled it.

I Googled him. Oh, you're holding up a laptop. Yeah, I was holding up the laptop. Yeah, I just, I lifted up my laptop and turned it around to the camera so you could see. That'd be quite a revelation. Yeah, no, could you believe that if I was just like,

oh, let me grab my framed picture of Chief Justice Roberts. No, yeah. And his oddly shaped nails. Yeah, I have not, you guys, we have not looked at him enough. We need to look at him

more often, you guys. We don't know what he looks like. We need, the people need to know who the fuck this man is. Okay. Wow.

It's going to be hard to top that with the other resolutions, you guys. Yeah, and yet we do have some other justices. Yeah,

we have to get through. We're just warming up. We want to share. I'm just fucking warming up. That was child's play. Come on, let's go. Well,

it was adult's play. Let's go. We got this. Who's next? We'll compose ourselves and go on in one second. I will say, because it's a podcast and they couldn't see, but Melissa did

nearly fall out of her chair at one point. I did. That's definitely the hardest I've ever made you laugh. I have to say, my only response is thank you. You did it. You took me all the way out

i have ringing in the new year in style you know i am going on tour i am i have more dates this year so you know if that's just a little taste of my comedy right there so if you'd like some more it's mostly additional new year's resolution i think we need to send the justices to your comedy tour you know i could probably fix like queer rights and trans rights and everything. Comp tickets. Yeah, I need to do that. Down there. Yeah.

I don't know if they'll come. We'll tell them it's a Federalist Society gathering. You have absolutely left my composure in shambles. And as a segue, Justice Thomas left 2023 in shambles. And there's no other way to put it. So after accepting boarding school tuition from Harlan Crowe for his grandnephew slash ward, Justice Thomas fixed his face to say this about affirmative action. So let's roll this tape. The original sin of slavery and the historical subjugation of black Americans do not still determine our lives today. To believe otherwise would lock us into a seemingly perpetual inferior caste.

This is irrational. It is an insult to individual achievement and cancerous to young minds. If an applicant has less financial means, then surely a university may take that into account, just as it may take into account an applicant's ability to overcome any other difficult circumstance. What the university cannot do is use the applicant's skin color as a heuristic, assuming that because he is black, he therefore conforms to the university's simplistic view of an abstract, average black person. Nor can universities favor certain race over Asian Americans in their mission decisions. Today, tomorrow, the popular and unpopular races may well change places.

The equal citizenship guarantee codified in the 14th Amendment made us all citizens of one nation, governed by one Constitution. The court today lives up to the promise of the second founding and ensures that the promise of equal citizenship continues to be fulfilled. There's a lot here, but I think first and foremost, it seems very clear that Justice Thomas's inner child needs to stop inflicting his trauma on this entire country. So my number one resolution for Justice Thomas is to take your concurrence in Students for Fair Admissions to therapy.

That is, show it to a trained therapist, i.e. not Ginny, and then do the work. Just do the work. Therapy's really good. While we're throwing things out, you know, when you're done with that, another resolution, although this one might be a revolution, would be to pay for something yourself. Get a wallet. Get your own wallet. I would say a related resolution is to make a friend.

Just go out there and make one friend who doesn't have anything to give you have some kind of non-transactional friendship. Find a poor person to be a friend with. It can be anyone. Find a person who doesn't need anything from you and is not going to give anything to you and actually just forge a human bond with them. I feel like this is something that he should prioritize in 2024. That was like such a classy, and that's why y'all are the Destiny's Child of law professors, like right there. Like that was so classy, beautiful, perfectly harmonized, so balanced. No, it was a hit. Say my name, like right there. That was so classy, beautiful, perfectly harmonized, so balanced. No, it was a hit. Say my name, say my name. Yes.

I mean, there is a Destiny's Child song about paying your own bills. I mean, but it goes the wrong way. You can pay my bills. Keep paying my credit card bills. Okay, Clarence, don't listen to that one. Don't listen to that one. Because there's a lot of independent women who don't, you know, yeah, who don't get to be as independent now because of his fucking decisions.

You know, because we don't want to cater to you because we're a survivor. Okay. There we go. Put your freaking dress on. Go make a friend. Yes. That was really good. That was such a classy read.

Make a friend. Thank you. And, you know, one other such a classy read. Make a friend. Thank you. And, you know, one other free trip just while we're at this. Free trip. Freudian. Freudian. Free tip. Free tip. Do not, do not, Clarence, make jokes about buying boats at Supreme Court oral arguments. They're not funny. Just a short question, Mr. Bashman, to satisfy my curiosity. Were they able to salvage those twin 12V71s? Just a handful of points, Justice Thomas, to your central question. The boat is available for sale online if you have a half million dollars. So, so hilarious. So very hilarious. He is. He is so funny. If you want a half million dollars. So, so hilarious. So very hilarious.

He is. He is so funny. If you want to learn how to be funny, go to JBN's comedy tour. So I don't think Justice Thomas is the only member of the court who could use some healing, textual or otherwise. I think therapy ought to be a goal for Justice Alito as well. Sir, you are seriously at risk of challenging Solicitor General Elizabeth Prelogar or the chief justice to literally fight you in oral arguments. You know, you're this close to being the Supreme Court's answer to Senator Mark Wayne Mullen. You want to run your mouth? We can be two consenting adults. We can finish it here. OK, that's fine. Perfect. You want to do it now? I'd love to do it right now.

Well, stand your butt up then. You stand your butt up. Oh, hold on. Oh, stop it. Is that your solution? No, no. Sit down. Sit down. You're a United States senator. Tease of the question, who is the Bernie Sanders of the Supreme Court if Alito does try to fight an advocate? Who reigns him in? I think it would be the Chief Justice. I think Kagan.

I feel like Kagan would be the one to say sit down. But what if Alito challenges the Chief to a fight? Yeah, then it's got to be a third party neutral. I don't think the Chief Justice is a teamster in this scenario. I don't think he's like, perfect, let's go. I don't think he says that. Nope, nope. He's a lover.

Those nails are too well manicured. Prelogger, on the other hand, might have that in her. I have a few, just a quick read for Alito, you guys. I did just pull up his image as well. I wanted to just refresh my memory. He really needs to put down the box hair color would be my biggest resolution for him. You are a Supreme Court justice and you're using box dye. And I think that is horrific.

It goes a little bit Danny DeVito and Matilda sometimes. It's grabbing a little dark and then we're giving gray temples. I'm seeing wild swings in these hair colors. I'm also really wanting him to use sunscreen because he has a gigantic melasma spot right on his cheek. Oh my God, thank you. And I am so worried about that.

He really, it's a year of skincare. And I actually think if he used skincare, he probably wouldn't be such, because you can really see the oppression leeching into his skin you know when you when you oppress people so much and you don't use skincare his deeds are etched in his face yeah your lips get all cracked yeah when you're 70 you have the face you deserve and like i'm so glad you said this because that was my tip for him too like he used to have like amazing skin. Like if you look back.

I just was Googling it. He was like, he really is not aged well. He was so dewy. I mean, this is a very recent thing. Very recent. Actually, he's 73. I just Googled that too. That makes sense.

I know. We're looking, that's a little good. That's, I mean, you know, you never know. Exactly. Yeah. Three, four years ago. He looked 35. No, he didn't. He looked, you never know. Exactly. Three, four years ago, when he was approaching 70. He looked 35. He looked 35. He looked 50. His skin looked pretty good. He literally looked amazing in 2019. His skin was very moist. Now, it seems like ripping longstanding constitutional

rights from women leaves you parched and papery. And so I honestly miss the days when Justice Alito's skin was thin but dewy. Yes, and there was a difference. There is a difference. There's a difference. He needs to drink more water. He needs to moisturize. There's probably more.

Like, there's more he can do. The skin is the least of it. You know, to the extent we're moving off of skin care, I would just add, like, do not correct or second-guess Justice Kagan's characterization The skin is the past doing so. Well, Mr. Gore, I thought your argument was that at least as a practical matter, in a case in which there is no direct evidence or virtually no direct evidence, there is no way in which a plaintiff can disentangle race and politics except by providing an alternative map. I thought that was your legal argument. That is. And that's exactly what Cooper says is not the case. Well, one may read Cooper a different way. Leave that crap in 2023. Should we move on to Justice Sotomayor, our next justice in order of seniority? Okay, okay. So one, celebration slash recommendation, keep doing this, which is that continue to help your colleagues understand what district courts do. They just don't get it,

with the exception, of course, of Justice Jackson. And Justice Kagan is, I'm sure, on top of it too, but the rest of them have no idea. Help them. Justice Sotomayor, you've been doing this, but keep doing this. Help them understand that de novo review, meaning the court just gets to decide every single question for itself, doesn't apply to everything. Okay. That's serious suggestion one. Less serious, but still pretty serious suggestion two. No, I, I, we should take leisure seriously. We should take leisure seriously. Okay. So then this one is equally serious, which is organize, Justice Sotomayor, organize

a girl's trip for you and Elena and Katonji be vague no forced birth advocates welcome be very vague with Amy about your weekend plans no turfs allowed we're just like gonna go like

you know it's just a thing someone organized like one of my friends from I can't go out I'm sick I gotta wash my hair

but don't invite Amy but do invite us along. Welcome. We're happy to carry your bags. We will pay our own way. Obviously. We can't pay your way. Obviously.

Because we are ethical. We are also not billionaires, so we can't do that. Final suggestion for Justice Sotomayor is maybe we could all agree on like what a safe word for oral arguments is, right? Like let us know what that word is so we know when things are really going off the rails and like blink twice if you know that that much discussed ethics code is hogwash i mean it has to be a word that you don't hear a lot at the court so people so it's like maybe like for quality. Justice. Well, they say justice, justice. That's true. That's true. Okay. Okay. All right. Okay. All right. Who's up next? Seniority. Seniority wise, it would be Justice Kagan. So just to continue the trigger fest for a little bit. My New Year's resolution for Justice Kagan is to make

more Taylor Swift references at oral argument. Here she is making one from Uzbekbanom back in 2020. Let me give you a case. I don't know what case, who this cuts in favor of, you or the petitioners, but I thought I'd ask it because it's the most famous nominal damages case I know of in recent times, which is Taylor Swift's sexual assault case. Do you know that one? Vaguely, Your Honor. Yeah, you know, it was a few years ago, and she brought a suit against a radio host for sexually assaulting her. And she said, I'm not really interested in your money. I just want a dollar.

And that dollar is going to represent something both to me and to the world of women who have experienced what I've experienced. And that's what happened. The jury gave her a dollar. And it was unquestionable physical harm. But she just asked for this one1 to say that she had been harmed. Why not? And maybe if we're on this shtick, you could include some Taylor Swift Easter eggs in opinions. And again, I just want to get this all out of the way because I know

people find it irritating, but there are other Taylor Swifts on the court in the reviews. The other Taylor Swift fan on the court is Justice Jackson. So here she is in a mock oral argument about Romeo and Juliet with Solicitor General Prelogger. Well, you mentioned the Taylor Swift song. Yes, she wrote a song about love story, but she also has another song called Bad Blood. I mean, wasn't Friar Lawrence aware of the fact that we were in this situation? And here she is bringing up Taylor Swift in Linky vs. Freed. I'm trying to understand how we evaluate a government employee controlling access to private property. You keep focusing on the private property nature of this, but what if we have, you know, a big

concert? Taylor Swift has a big concert in a private, you know, area, a park or something, and the police recognize there are going to be large crowds, et cetera, and so they come, and they help with the screening of the bags, and they, you know, kick out people who are rowdy and they're controlling access to this area of the private area of this. Because it's private, we would say that's not state action. But Taylor Swift could have hired a state. It's not just the fact that, I mean, they're not doing anything more than a private security card could have done, right? So it's not just we look at, well, what are they doing versus what a private person could do.

I just, I love this. I love this so much. Do we think they, like, made a date to go see the Heiress Tour movie slash should they still do that? Maybe that's their girl trip. Maybe they should go to, like, Argentina. Yeah, go to, like, Argentina or something. Oh, actually, to catch an actual show. To go to an actual show.

They could at least, she can teach you how to get people to like you more. But the men need to do that with her. The girls don't need to. I don't think they need those lessons. Yeah, Taylor needs to, maybe the men, or just, I don't know.

It's a lot of pressure to put on one person. I feel like they need to go to her concert and be like in the tent, like where Travis Kelsey is. And like, you just like see them. And then Taylor does something like, and now go vote. So there would be double this energy on the Supreme Court. And then everyone would go register to vote. And things could be very, very different.

What do you think? Do you remember Olivia Rodrigo was in concert somewhere right after Dobbs came down? With Lily Allen, yeah. And they dedicated Fuck You to the justices who overturned Roe and Dobbs, yeah. And that was a great moment. And the Taylor Swift version of that

could really change the trajectory of this country. I agree. That is something that we should be trying to manifest in 2024. We've got ideas about how to specifically do it. So Taylor, have your people call us. Speaking of collabs, I think Justice Kagan should do a few more collabs with Justice Jackson. So I'm here for EK times KBJ, which we heard a lot of last year, but I would love to see

more of in 2024. So let's hear a clip. I think you're looking at it correctly, Justice Jackson. And maybe as to the timing question in 8850, that tracks the Barker test, but we're asserting a different kind of claim. So why is it different? Yes. Why is it different? And finally, you know, while we're shooting for the moon, everybody knows I love a good Justice Kagan read. Like, I want her to keep the library open forever. And I would like to hear more savagery directed at all of the fools arguing before her and on the bench with her that just liquefies their intestines and sends people to their graves with her words written on their tombstones. So here are some of my favorite hits from last year. You know, every regression analysis has

things that you can pull the coals in, but you didn't give anything in response to that. It's not like you said, we have a better regression analysis. We've controlled for more things, and we can show you that the effect disappears. You're saying that it was clear error to credit the plaintiff's experts dealing with the exact question under review and finding statistically significant results to credit those experts over your nothing. Yeah, it's just too important and whatever. I mean, the FDIC, the OCC, they also fail your test. The history of our country just rejects that scheme. I mean, that might have been a way to understand what the framers were doing. But it turns out that from the very first year, that's not what they were doing. That's not what they did. Annual line item

appropriations were some appropriations, but massively not all appropriations. And so you're just flying in the face of 250 years of history. That's settled. Well, it's settled only to the extent no one's brought it up and forced this issue since Atlas Roofing. I agree. In this context. Nobody has had the, you know, chutzpah, to quote my people, to bring it up since Atlas Roofing. Oh, she's amazing. But yes, more of that, please. She's still good.

Who's the real librarian of the United States Supreme Court? Okay. Now, again, seniority with the emphasis on T. We get to Justice Neil M. Gorsuch. Can I just say really quick that it's really scary with the seniority that Trump got so many in that his first person is like, oh, my God. That means there's going to be a no. Like, that means that there's probably going to be, like, a Chief Justice Gorsuch someday. Right?

Don't even be there forever. Don't even say that. Hopefully not. Most of the time, actually, historically, presidents pick chiefs from outside. When there's a vacancy, they don't elevate internally. Oh, is that how that works? You don't have to, but typically. Rehnquist was inside and got elevated to be chief,

but the majority of them have been. He was just a regular associate justice, and then he was elevated to be chief. So the president gets to decide who becomes chief justice only when they retire though. When, or die, you know, when they're gone. Yeah. So when, when, when George W. Bush was president, when Rehnquist died while he was still the chief and John Roberts was never an associate justice, he was just on the DC circuit and George W. Bush nominated him directly to, well, initially nominated him to be an associate in a different spot, but he was never that. And then he got nominated to be the chief justice after, you know,

before ever having served in another position on the court. So I just don't think that Gorsuch has, I think people like Scalia famously kind of wanted to be the chief when he was on the court, never happened for him. I don't think, I don't really know, but I kind of doubt Gorsuch even is delusional enough to think that that could ever happen. I don't know. Do not overestimate that guy's delusions. Wishing and hoping and planning and praying. God, I love that movie. Such a good movie. But you're right that he is, you know, that it's like, wasn't he just nominated?

And he's like in the middle of the pack because Trump in one term got to make three appointments. Barack Obama, extremely popular president, elected twice, served two terms. Guess what? He made two in eight years. So the kind of asymmetry of the influence of our recent presidents on the court, on the justices, is pretty staggering if you think about it. You know, I have to say, now that I've Googled his picture, he looks guilty. He looks like he's hiding something. He has a guilty smile. I don't know what he's hiding, but he always does look like he's smirking and concealing. I think I totally agree with that.

All right. So what do we want to suggest? Is there hope for him? Can he course correct at this point? What's your resolution for him, JVN? Oh, no, not me. Take up skydiving. I think skydiving could be such a great way to diffuse the stress of the court.

You know, we're coming into an election year. It's, like, high stakes. You know, everyone's so stressed. And I think people get these great adrenaline rushes, and that could be good for him. A hobby would be good for him. You know, skydiving was a big part of Bostock, which is probably the Supreme Court decision for which Justice Gorsuch is best known. That was the case that concluded that discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity

was discrimination on the basis of sex within the confines of Title VII. One of the litigants had been a skydiving instructor before. And then he passed away, right? Yes, exactly. Zarda. It was the Zarda case. So yeah, I mean, I think skydiving would be, like, why not? You know what I just realized that I don't like about myself?

I literally, you know what I remember about that case? I remember that it was about someone who'd passed away. And then I was like, I don't want to die. And then I didn't read anything else. I was like, okay, but I need to read things better. That was a queer rights case, and it went over my fucking gay head. I can't stand it.

That's why we're here. But it was also really upsetting because this is somebody who was discriminated against and then challenged the injustice and actually it was successful, right? Like the case did result in this interpretation that did protect you from discrimination on the basis of both sexual orientation and gender identity. Right, one of the few sort of surprising bright spots from this court in recent years.

And yet Donald Zarda like never lived to see it. So that's not irrelevant at all to the case. Yeah, I definitely just – I feel like – yeah, I was like, it was so sad. That was like what I remember from it. And then everything, yeah. Justice delayed is justice denied. Oh, also I'm sorry, I have one more on serious one.

I need him to put the gel down and say yes to pomade. We're doing so much gel and I just think like a dry finish, like a nice dry finish could be, you know, he has a nice full head of hair. What pomade brand would you recommend? Not Murray's pomade. No, actually, you know, he has a nice full head of hair. What pomade brand would you recommend? Not Murray's pomade. No, actually, you know,

this is like an oldie but a goodie, but I like like a Veda control paste. Oh, very good. Yes. It's like a nice lightweight pomade. You know, it's buildable. Yeah. Yeah. You really have to emulsify it in both hands. Like, I say this as someone with short hair. Like, this is critical. Like, you ladies

don't know about the pomade game, but this is where I can offer fellow Virgo Neil Gorsuch some real guidance. Melissa, can I give you a hot hair tip on pomade? Oh, I'm listening. I like to hit my pomade with a blow dryer. I do that too. I do that too. And then you have to be doing this and this. Am I a professional? Am I a professional hairstylist? And I always suspected that with your shape.

Because your short haircut shape, like the shape of your haircut. And I think I went off on you about this for about 15 minutes. You can continue though. No, but yeah, it's like your hair. It's like it's beyond reproach. Like you want to talk about no notes. Like there is no haircut shape on a face with no notes as much as your haircut shape. And you do go to the same person, right?

Because you can't get that perfection jumping around all the time. So I actually, like the person who did the shape initially was my favorite hairstylist in the world, Sarah Sheik, who was at Marquis Salon in Oakland. But then I moved to New York. And so for a while, I would try to fly back to see Sarah. And then finally, I could not do that anymore. And so then I just had to like find someone in New York. But I got Sarah to cut my hair on a video. And I basically show it to my stylist in New York constantly. Okay, Gorsuch, get the pomade, put down your gel, you fucking nightmare. Oh, my God. And you know, while we're on reforming his personal image, I do think he could stand to smile more and just try to be a little bit

more. He's so much more handsome when he smiles. Yes. And also like, I don't know if you guys have done this before, but 2024 does need to be

the year where we start telling men to like smile more. You're so much cuter when you smile. When you smile. When you smile. Similar vein.

He does, he's just kind of like, he's extra from the bench, but like not in a good way. Like he needs to take down the vitriol. He's on a 10. He could be on a 6. The not in a good way. Like he needs to take down. He's on a 10. He could be on a six. Self-confidence.

Yeah. He needs to dial, dial the way down. And he also needs to defer to his female colleagues much more, which we did see happen. I think once this term, once maybe ever. But having tried that out,

Neil, maybe keep doing it. I do think if he's going to be accepting boondoggles to Italy, I think it's important for him to learn Italian, not just fantastico. Like just learn a few more phrases, right? Grazie. How do you say thank you for this free boondoggle? He should learn. I agree. Right, said in Italian. Yeah, I think so.

Anything else for Neil before we move on? No. Okay. Because I think you're going to have a field day with this. I was about to say we have a project on our hands because the next justice is Justice Brett Kavanaugh. And if Neil could maybe focus on smiling more and being more likable, I think Brett Kavanaugh could maybe focus less on being liked personally and more on the substance of his opinions and decisions. So that would be where I would start for him. Yeah. I mean, I would say he is, in terms of like the kind of emptiness of this sort of like shtick and performance, and that he writes concurrences all the time that are like bullet point lists, but written as though

like lists are arguments. So there's not actually any argumentation there. It's just like a list of things. It's like if I submitted my grocery list to the U.S. reports, like, it's like Greek yogurt. So I guess another way to put that resolution is that sometimes – remember that sometimes silence is a virtue and sometimes doing nothing is the most important contribution. So I send that off to him. But, JVN, I think you have – Wait, I feel like JVN – yeah. You probably – you're looking him up, aren't you? Yeah.

I'm deep in my analysis. What's the read? I have a few notes. Okay. You probably, you're looking him up, aren't you? Yeah. I'm deep in my analysis. What's the read? I have a few notes. Okay. The most important one is like flossing and teeth whitening. I just think that like really getting a little bit of like we're just really the teeth. I hate to say it.

I don't want to be a bitch from hell. But I also wrote down veneers. I think we could be even there. Like it might even be. So then I've just got to take it all out and start over. And I think he could maybe be there. The other thing I was going to say is I think his hair. Smile actives could be really great here. What's that again?

Coffee. That's a teeth whitening paste that you can mix in with your toothpaste. And, you know, beer, wine, and coffee do stain your teeth. Even like water picking if you don't want to floss. Like that could be fun. To be very clear, I don't think Brett Kavanaugh is the only person that requires this kind of guidance um i just saw some photos of prince william and i was like whoa like i will say though at least for william versus harry and i mean i'm not trying to you know go into these like political like you're treading in dangerous waters i just want

to advise you this is the only thing i will say look I love Megan more than anything so don't even come for me okay I love Megan okay so I'm obsessed but this is what I will say for like William style choices versus Harry's just right now I do feel that like William I really appreciated that he just said you know what I'm gonna take this hair off

it's time for me to just really take this hair down and I just feel that unless Harry's gonna go to Turkey and really commit to like, or like that TikTok journey of that boy who was like, I'm going to regrow my hair. And he was so cute. Like, and it didn't really look like that much different. Then all of a sudden I was like, oh my God, his hair is so much thicker. But yeah, like that.

I just feel like Harry really, I just, I am worried about that. I agree with this read. I do. I mean, like, but I just. And I love him. I'm attracted to him as well. He, I mean, he has a lot of BDE, and I don't think

William always has that. Oh! Yeah. Oh, you think Harry does? I do. See, the haircut's really gotten in the way of that for me since the wedding. You can't see it, though. You can't, like, you can't really see it unless you're looking from the top. Honey, I'm... Okay, you are the expert. I'm sorry.

Looking from all the angles. No, this is just, like, sometimes, you know, there's this rose-colored glasses thing. And sometimes when we really love someone, it's hard for us. And I get... Because Megan's hair and vibe is like beyond reproaching. Yeah, it's so good. And I just think, you know, when someone's standing next to that, you're like, oh my God, like you too.

Reflected glory. Yeah, you have amazing... And it's... No. That's probably right. I've probably been looking at it through Megan-colored glasses. You're right. No, you have amazing, and it's, no. That's probably right. I've probably been looking at it through Megan-colored glasses. You're right. No, it's true.

It's not your fault. I've never called you out on anything before in our whole friendship, and you know that. Here's the thing. I can accept this critique, right? It's the only one. I can take the note. I can take the note. It could even just be going shorter.

It doesn't even have to be a shaved or buzzed head. It could even just be, like, really good. Because remember when, like, William was giving you, like, bald daddy for a long time? But he wasn't shaved, but he was, like, giving you, like, my grandpa haircut? It could even be that. Like, that's even cute. But something about the top, we have to talk about that. But I have one more really important thing for Brett Kavanaugh or for Justin Kavanaugh.

I think there's – my TikTok and Instagram is inundated with these incredible Korean hairstylists. And they do these like perms and like root lifts. A success perm for Brett Kavanaugh. Yeah. He needs like perm the sides down. Like the sides need to be permed down. And he's like because like the balance is all fucked up. Like the heavy side, like the part's not right.

It's all fucked up. Like, the heavy side, like, the part's not right. It's all fucked up. He needs, like, a Korean, like, really good perm, like, root lift artist to come in here and give him, like, a great K-pop little, I just need more zhuzh on that. Like, if you're trying to be this slick used car salesman of, you know, like, taking away everyone's rights, like, can you just, like, grease that hair up and get it together? Like, and when I say, I just, I just,

it should be a little more polished. I need some mousse. I want some hairspray. I want, like, a Beverly Hills woman blow-dry style on him. And that would make me feel, with no volume on the sides. Like, that's what I need. I mean, more zhuzh on that hair, more zhuzh in the opinions. Like, his opinion in Reed vs. Gertz, right, could have stand some like actual reasons.

I mean, I do think he could probably get in on the Gorsuch pomade game, right? Like on the sides, like to just keep it down, right? And give some definition on it as well. Like, yeah. Make it look a little piecier. I don't like how, let me show you this. I really have a problem with this shape, you guys.

Let's get into it. Let me get out the computer so we can get into our replay. Also, the skin's really, the texture's bad. I think we need to get into some retinols because the skin is so bumpy. It's really bumpy, you guys. Maybe a chemical peel? Yes, he's really struggling with

uneven skin texture. Some rosacea here, too. I was going to say the same thing, but now that we've talked about the skin, let's go into the hair. Do you see how this is, like, all this volume over here, but then over here it's kind of flattish? It's 80s frat boy. Yeah. It's 80s frat boy. But I want some mousse here, you know, not that he deserves it, but some mousse and some root lift over here to balance.

You see, because we have all this volume here, and it's too much volume too high up. So nothing is really working for me here. Who do you think his hair, like, guide should be? Who's the person he should be trying to emulate here? Like someone, yeah, like Jungkook from, like, BTS. Like, I want him to have, like, I really want, like, a K-pop, like, vibe to his hair. I think, like, a little younger, you know? Right, so more K-pop less Georgetown pop

but that's if he was like a oh my god what if you know like sometimes when people get in car accidents they come back with like a totally different accent what if he got in like

a car accident and then like became liberal or like ran into a tree skiing but survived it that would change our whole show yeah he survived it I don't know if we could survive

and then he was like oh my god like trans rights women's rights pro-queer abortion rights like i need another case to fix my errors and then that's when his hair would get cute that's when he would start changing his hairdresser that's like that that movie with rachel mcadams and channing tatum well i was just gonna say like sometimes when you fix people's hair you you can just fix their entire life. I think there's a

show about this. Is that my purpose? I need to lean into Republicans in that way. I kind of withhold my best advice from them sometimes, but I guess I just gave him real advice on hair and how I'd... Wow.

I'm actually really getting now impatient to hear what you have to say about Amy Coney Barrett because there's all kinds of stuff going on with her hair. Can I ask you to pull up multiple pictures? Sometimes she gets a little curl going on the bench. So I would say if we can find a couple of different images, I feel like there's a lot. This is like a whole palette. Well, here I would say, I think, oh God, she really scares me.

She really does. There is a look in her eye that is, when I zoomed in, I honestly like my heart kind of like, I'm not even, that's like really, like there's something about her eyes that I actually have the chills. Like, do I have COVID or is that, I'm scared. She did give a lot of people

COVID at her Rose Garden. Oh, yeah, she did. I've got COVID. I don't know if she gave it to them. I don't know if you get COVID through the laptop. COVID Amy. I do feel that there's a chunky, there's quite a chunky highlight that we're seeing here, which I think is interesting.

It is like quite chunky. And I guess I wouldn't have seen that coming. I also can tell that her colorist, she doesn't pay a lot because when I do, I'm not trying to be, but when I do root retouches, because you know how your hairline is like finer hair? Like it's not like this hair, it's like finer than like all of the, like your real hair. Right around the temple, right in the front, yeah. Yes. So like if you put the same hair color on someone's base, the front always takes like

two shades darker because it's just way more fine so if you ever see like that inky ass dark hair color on someone's hairline but then when their hair is down it's all like lighter that's because the hairdresser like didn't mix two formulas you also like if like a hair color goes on the scale from one to ten one's the darkest tens the lightest there are like high lifts and you can't technically go higher than a ten but just for purposes of ease. So like if I was doing like a root retouch of like a 5

I would always make the hairline like a 7. And then that ends up looking like balanced. You know what I'm saying? She has this like inky ass hairline that just says like

my colorist doesn't know what they're doing. I pay like 95 for a partial highlight. I'm going to intervene here. Like because I do have some sympathy for this.

Like, what if we go back to the vault, look at her pictures from South Bend, where she was going to her regular hairstylist, and then compare them to her pictures now that she's in D.C.? Because I think this could be an issue. What year was that? So she came on the court in 2020, before she was a judge on the 7th Circuit in Indiana, living in South Bend, where I think she had a regular hairdresser. This is probably who was doing this color.

This must have... So do we think that this picture was from when she was a judge in... Yes. So maybe her South Bend colorist did this. Do you see improvement now that she's in D.C.? Okay, let's do Amy Barrett. How do you say her name?

Amy Barrett. I never really took the time to learn all the way because I was just like, kill me. Okay, let's do Amy Barrett. How do you say her name? Amy Barrett. Amy Barrett. Yes, I never really took the time to learn it all the way because I was just like, kill me. 2023. Okay, let's look now. Images. She just gave a speech the other day. There might be an image from that.

Yeah, I will say this colorist is doing a more diffused highlight, certainly. She's gone a little bit lighter. Okay. A little bit of a glow up. The hairline is still a little inky, though, I have to say. I think we're not having a two-color application the way that I would, the way that we typically do in L.A. It's a very L.A.-New York thing. You see an inkier hairline on the way that we typically do in LA. It's a very, like, LA, New York thing.

You see an inkier hairline on the whole on the East Coast, LA. It's, like, everyone does, like, in, like, good salons. But, yeah, what a nightmare. I just really think that I am so sad. I don't even want to read her looks. Because the worst part is that, like, I will just never get over it. Like, these c***s from hell did not approve Merrick Garland for 10 months

because there wasn't enough time from February to November. People had to vote. This woman got through in two weeks while votes were, like, the hypocrisy. Like, I don't even have to read her looks because these fucking patriarchal oppressive shit, fuck asses foisted this woman

upon this country, this justice. I hate them all. All of the chunky highlights represent different parts of the country that voted against her as she was being confirmed, so you can think about it that way. Although I will say in this picture that I just found of her from September of 2020,

her hair has never looked better than this picture. You know, this... Okay, let's see it. Is this her? Is that her? That is her. Wait, where is that? Whoever styled her hair this day...

Confirmation hearing. Oh, she did look good during the confirmation hearing. Yeah, this hair was next level. Like, the hairline's perfect. The placement's gorgeous. I hate to give her a compliment. Her eyes don't look so fucking... I'm gonna f***ing murder you with my b****** for, like, not being a c***. Like, if she saw me

in an alley, she'd be like, listen up, b****. If you don't f***ing start eating b******, I swear to God, like, you're gonna... That's what I feel she would say to me. In some ways, like, we have to imagine what she says because she sometimes doesn't explain herself in the important decisions. And so maybe unlike what we said about Justice Kavanaugh, it would be great if Justice Barrett would say more, but not like really weird, long efforts to reconcile the major questions doctrine with textualism but instead when you cast the fifth vote to overrule roe say something like tell us why you're doing so say it to our faces so do you know what that's giving say something i'm giving up on you yes

yes yes so sad very much i also i think there are moments too where justice barrett up on you. Yes. Yes. Yes. So sad. Very much. I think there are moments too where Justice Barrett is on the verge of literally slapping one of her conservative colleagues. I think she's a very tightly coiled presence sometimes at oral argument.

And I'm just like, you know what? I think you should just let that out. Giving a lead over particular? Yeah. I'm thinking of a lead over. Elaborate. Elaborate. There are just these moments where she literally, you just like, you know what? I think you should just let that out. There's no need. You mean Alito in particular? Yeah, yeah. I'm thinking of Alito. Elaborate. Elaborate. There are just these moments where she literally, you just like, you can tell she like, I don't know. It just seems very tightly coiled.

Like she wants to tell Justice Alito to like sit down, have a seat. And I am just, you know, I don't think you need to be. To fight for Jesus more or what? No, just like to just shut up and let other people do things. And you don't have to be decorous. Intrapartisan squabbling is very in vogue right now. See the House Republicans. So if you're feeling that, I say act on it.

Let him know that you're the one who has 30 more years than this bitch, right? Indeed. All right. We saved the best for last, but I think we should now turn to Justice Jackson, the queen. The queen. Never change. That's our big New Year's resolution. Keep doing exactly what you're doing. Keep maybe one example of what you should keep doing is to continue exploiting the seriatim questioning. That's the questioning at the end of the oral arguments. She goes last. She gets to sort of do cleanup, figure out what kind of themes and notes the

argument should end on, give the advocate the opportunity to help her, help them, or help whatever side she wants to help. There are like a million different clips we could play here. And we do have to include this clip from Rahimi, which was, we were only halfway through the term, but so far, definitely the leading contender for the most important and best moment of the term. And I highly doubt anything will top it. So let's play that here. But we have a history and traditions test. I guess I'm a little troubled by having a history and traditions test that also requires some sort of culling of the history so that only certain people's history counts. So what do we do with that? Isn't that a flaw with respect to the test? Finally, let me just ask you prospectively, from the standpoint of a legislator today,

I mean, we've been talking about sort of the retrospective view of this, you know, when there's an existing gun control measure that's being challenged, how do we determine by looking at history whether or not it's constitutional? But let's say I'm a legislator today analog for the kinds of legislation that I'm considering? Absolutely iconic. Resolution, continue to be 100% that bitch. Keep taking DNA tests and confirming it. Just be that healthy, safe girl. Maybe don't do any more hobbies because you're

so perfect. Yes. Like, don't mess with perfection is her resolution. Oh, and you know what I always say to my agents? I'll be like, just because it's industry standard doesn't make it right. It's like my favorite thing to say. So maybe she could pitch a new resolution for not

having to get the door. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. yeah yeah still kind of stuck on that her look is next level the sister locks are great her skin is flawless now i don't i don't want to like this is like because i love her hair so much it literally needs nothing but just like if she ever did like a vanity fair article or like it like if she ever did like goddess locks like when there's like that littleity Fair article or like if she ever did like goddess locks, like when there's like that little like gorgeous little wave, like, but I heard she doesn't need anything. I love her anyways.

Tell me. Speaking of photo shoots, was it a Vogue photo shoot that she did? And I think Annie Leibovitz did the photos. And like Annie Leibovitz cannot light black women. I'm just going to say it. It's a big problem. It's a big blind spot. So the New Year's resolution, like don't let Annie Leibovitz cannot light black women. I'm just going to say it. It's a big problem. It's a big blind spot.

So the New Year's resolution, like, don't let Annie Leibovitz take your picture. Yes. This girl who I met in New Orleans in Queer Eye, I love her so much. She's Nola Brader on Instagram. She's, like, so good. The goddess locks that she does is, like, they're so breathtaking. Oh, my God. And, like, the shape is, like, I actually have chills again.

So it must not be COVID. I just must, like, respond with chills to chills to like really good or really bad thoughts. But that's like a really good thought. I also just wanted to call attention to something that you just like casually said earlier, Melissa. And then you just like stopped so casually opening a can of like vocabulary whoop-ass. Like you're just – you said decorous. I had to Google what that meant. That was like – what a good word.

That was like a literally $75 word. I've never heard it in my life. And I've never heard that word in my life before. Like, what a good word. It's a great word. Do you use that on this podcast all the time? Do people know that word? Not all the time.

I think occasionally. Yeah. I probably learned it studying for the SAT. As someone would say, not sporadically. Episodically. So, you know, that's the court. Maybe we can just briefly wrap up with some New Year's resolutions for strict scrutiny in JVN. Stay awesome.

More collaborations with JVN. I'll be your Latoya, your Latavia, or whatever the fourth member of Destiny's Child was that got kicked out. Latoya. Latoya. Latoya Luckett. But we're still on good terms. We're still friends,

and we still get invited to the concert. Exactly. Perfect. What else? I think we should make more candle sets. And if you happen to purchase our special edition candle sets for the holidays, you know exactly what I mean. Because these candles smell like the interior of a private jet, an ethical lapse, and vibes, not law. And they were absolutely amazing. And they were amazing, amazing holiday

gifts. And I think we should do it again. Kate? I have a serious resolution, actually, not for us, but for Article III judges out there. So as 2024 kicks off, there are a lot of judges on the federal bench who are eligible to retire or take senior status, which would open up additional seats for President Biden to fill. And I would just say to all of those eligible but still sitting judges, think about your legacy. Think about Trump and his advisors having soured on the Federalist Society as too mainstream. Think about Judge Matthew Kaczmarek, 2.0, right? Like whatever the more extreme version of that is. In your chambers, sitting at your desk, second-guessing science, reviving the Comstock Act. Think about all of

that. Think about having the power to prevent it. And then start drafting your letter to President Biden informing him of your retirement. I love that Kate actually had a real substantive resolution. Fuck candles. That was really good. It's all important. Really good. It's all important. Really good.

My resolution is to be more like you guys. I want to be more like you guys. I want to be like more substantive and like pay better attention and then not stop talking about the election for the next 11 months. That's a good resolution. That's a resolution. That's a great like let's not stop talking about the election for the next 11 months. Let's definitely do everything we can to help get out the vote, talk about the issues, and leave no power on the table, as our friend and queen, Sherilyn Ifill, instructs us to do. And not to give you guys more work to do, but also just as I was thinking about it, you know, it could also be a fun resolution for you guys, which I know we said we were doing our own. But I would be so interested because I've, like, obviously started listening a lot since I met you guys.

I'm, like, such a big fan. It'd be cool if you guys did like a special or like a series of specials on state Supreme Courts. Like Wisconsin's going fucking off right now. A lot of them have made like really consequential decisions as far as like allowing Trump on the ballot, even with the insurrection. Like and like there's just such like there's a lot there in terms of. It's like you're in our heads. We will take that note and we will apply that because we know good advice when we hear it. We do. Thanks for having me, you guys.

I love you so much. Thank you so much for coming on. Strict Scrutiny is a Crooked Media production hosted and executive produced by Leah Lippman, me, Melissa Murray, and Kate Shaw. We are produced and edited by Melody Rowell and our associate producer is Ashley Mizzuo. We get audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis with music by Eddie Cooper. Production support from Madeline Herringer and Ari Schwartz. And if you haven't already, be sure in the new year to subscribe to Strict Scrutiny. Make that your resolution. And you can do so in your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode. And if you really want to help your friends and loved ones to find the show,

please rate and review us. It really helps, especially if it's a deserved five stars. Happy new year. Thank you.