Strict Scrutiny - Our Favorite Things, 2025

Episode Date: December 22, 2025

It’s that time of year when Leah, Melissa, and Kate put on their influencer hats and recommend the things that made their days a little brighter in 2025. This year, they’re joined by two special guests: rockstar Strict Scrutiny intern Jordan Thomas to share some of his picks, and former Chair of the Federal Election Commission Ellen Weintraub to discuss two of democracy’s favorite things—independent agencies and the regulation of money in politics. Favorite things: WANTLeah: Cozy Earth Bubble Cuddle Blanket, Jones Road Just Enough Tinted MoisturizerKate: Aventura electric scooter, Grüns Superfood Greens GummiesMelissa: True Botanicals, e.l.f. Camo Liquid BlushJordan: Tea Tree Leave-In Conditioner, Pink Oil Moisturizer,  NEEDLeah: Peloton stretching classes, Farmhounds dog treats; Badlands Ranch dog foodKate: custom bobbleheads & action figures, Lilly Allen’s tour, Strict Scrutiny’s upcoming West Coast tourMelissa: Caddis readers, Blackwing Matte pencils, As Ever RoséJordan: 2026 Evanescence and Korn tours, these headphones WEARLeah: Forme Power Bra, Argent, TheRealRealKate: Strict Scrutiny onesies, Cozy Earth Studio Wide Leg PantMelissa: Quince yak wool sweaters, Uniqlo White T-Shirt, Clearly Collective Collegiate Scarves, WaySoft Cashmere BeanieJordan: Crooked Con Merch, Mavi jeans READLeah: The Wedding People, Alison Espach; Julie Anne Long’s Pennyroyal Green series; Lisa Kleypas’ Wallflowers series; These Summer Storms, Sarah MacLean; Bury Our Bones in the Midnight Soil, V. E. Schwab; The God of the Woods, Liz Moore; Book of the MonthKate: The Power Broker, Robert Caro; Who Is Government? Michael Lewis; Character Limit: How Elon Musk Destroyed Twitter, Kate Conger & Ryan Mac; The Radical Fund, John Fabian Witt; Isola, Allegra Goodman; Heart the Lover, Lily King; Martyr! Kaveh Akbar; The History of Sound, Ben ShattuckMelissa: Matriarch, Tina Knowles; Black in Blues: How a Color Tells the Story of My People, Imani Perry; Jane Austen's Bookshelf, Rebecca Romney; Atmosphere, Taylor Jenkins Reid; The Book Club for Troublesome Women, Marie Bostwick; The Loneliness of Sonia and Sunny, Kiran DesaiJordan: Lawless, Leah Litman; The Sirens' Call, Chris Hayes; Bad Law, Elie Mystal; Charles Sumner: Conscience of a Nation, Zaakir Tameez; Just Shine! How to Be a Better You, Sonia SotomayorEllen: Deanna Raybourn’s Veronica Speedwell Mysteries; Everyone in My Family Has Killed Someone, Benjamin Stevenson; The Black Wolf, Louise Penny; Shakespeare: The Man Who Pays the Rent, Judi Dench; This Is Happiness, Niall Williams; Elizabeth Strout; Amor Towles Get tickets for STRICT SCRUTINY LIVE – The Bad Decisions Tour 2025! 3/6/26 – San Francisco3/7/26 – Los AngelesLearn more: http://crooked.com/eventsOrder your copy of Leah's book, Lawless: How the Supreme Court Runs on Conservative Grievance, Fringe Theories, and Bad VibesFollow us on Instagram, Threads, and Bluesky Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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forward slash strict. One last time, that's 60% off your first order of smalls plus free shipping when you head to smalls.com forward slash strict. Mr. Chief Justice, please support. It's an old joke. When I argue, man, I argues against two beautiful ladies like this, they're going to have the last word. quote, not elegantly, but with unmistakable clarity, she said, I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet or for next. and welcome back to Strick Scrutiny, your podcast about the Supreme Court and the legal culture that surrounds it. We're your hosts. I'm Kate Shaw. I'm Leah Littman. And I'm Melissa Murray,

and it's that time of the year again. Here at Strict Scrutiny, we have many traditions. One of them is talking about Sam Alito's skin and his purported skin care regime. Another is talking about Brett Kavanaugh's intellect. And another is just generally calling the court out on its BS. But another tradition, which we always do in the festive season, is our favorite things episode. It's just like Oprah's favorite things only with lawless courts. It's amazing. So if that sounds confusing, here is how it works. We just kind of go around with some gift giving and gift soliciting ideas. And then we also touch on a few of our other favorite things with kind of random banter, some of it, but not all of it, SCOT is related in the mix. And today we are delighted

to be joined by a special guest, someone who is usually behind the microphones slash scenes not in front of one. That's right. It is our fantastic intern, Jordan Thomas. Welcome to the show, Jordan. Thank you for having me. This is super cool. Love to finally be able to contribute in a way that's not just behind the scenes. This is really wonderful. Well, you've been contributing a lot behind the scene. Jordan is truly the gift who keeps on giving. He's here because he is one of our favorite things. Exactly. He's literally one of our favorite things. Yes. So you can all follow along. The general categories that we talk about in the episode are something you want, something

you need, something to wear, and something to read. Do you want to note that this last category presumes you can read, Brett, so I'm not sure if we have any picture books to recommend. Just pride puppy. That is not on. I mean, maybe it should be. It was maligned in the oral argument of my mood. It was a perfectly lovely book.

Okay, we will then do a little bit of chitchhating about the last year and the next one. And for our final segment, we're going to be joined by returning guest and friend of the show, Ellen Weintraub, a former commissioner on the Federal Election Commission. Because some of our favorite things are what? Separation of powers, agency independence, and campaign finance regulation. And our favorite things, our least favorite things are what the court is going to do to all of those ideas. Exactly. So let's start with something you want. I'll go first. This is something I have, but you all should want. The Cozy Earth Cuddle Bubble Blanket. It is surreal. It's like this like waffle texture that's super

soft. My dog and I fight over it. Like seriously, Cozy Earth, if you're listening, Stevie should be a model for you. I have so many photos of her wrapped in this blanket. We are all obsessed. It's a little heavy. You haven't said this. It has like almost a weighted quality to it. Right. No, that's part of like the waffle thing that I meant to convey. Yeah. No, it's slightly heavier than your average blanket, but still soft. It's just excellent. And something else. So Jones Road, I know their most famous product is the Miracle Balm. I love their tinted moisturizer.

It's the only tinted moisturizer that feels more like moisturizer and less like foundation to me and like isn't oily. And I just love it. So I'm also going to mention a couple of things that I have and that you might need. Okay. The first is an electric scooter. So think VESPA, but kind of off brand. So there are now some VESPA competitive.

editors. And one of them is Aventura. And I don't mean to disparage it by calling it off brand. It's just not a, you know, like Vespa's a pretty famous Italian company. So Aventura is an American company. They're making these electric scooters that look just like Vespas, like if you kind of like squint. But the basic outline is the same. It is fully electric. So there is a big square battery that you just bring into your house and plug into a wall. So you don't have to like go to a separate charging station and it's not a hybrid. It's like purely electric. And the price point is for a scooter, like way, way, way, way less than a Vespa. Some of them are like under two or three thousand dollars. And this is like a baby motorcycle. This is like a thing that will transport you all

around New York City where I live. And it is actually amazing if you live in a place where you need to go like a mile or two or three with stuff so you can't like walk fast or jog necessarily comfortably. And there just are not necessarily subway stations between point A and point B. I transport my older children to the bus and subway stops on the scooter, and it's just kind of an amazing way to get around New York City. So I wanted to shout out that company, which has been great so far. And then very different is I was at my book club recently, and like for some reason somebody asked for people's recommendations about the supplements they were taking, and there was a lot

of endorsement of gruns or grooms. I don't even know how you say it, like superfood vitamins, which are these like little gummy bear packets with like nine gummy bears. that you're supposed to take every day, so you get to eat a lot of vitamins in the form of gummy bears daily. I'm not totally sure, like, I feel any health effects yet, but they're pretty delicious, and it's kind of awesome to be taking gummy bears for quasi-medicinal purposes. So those might be something that you need, too. Are either of you into the superfood, like grunts vitamins yet? Leah, Melissa, Jordan, I assume you are not.

You made me take some on the road to... Oh, yeah, I gave you a pack on the Amtrak. What'd you think? And then remember I had an amazing headache and was just like really totally effed up before our show. Do you remember that? I think that you attribute that to the vitamins? I don't know. Should I try again? I mean, I don't want to.

Maybe not before a live show. I think I, well, I mean, Leah, she pushed them on me so hard. I thought like she was like it was Molly or something. It was vitamins, Melissa. This sounds like Katie Heron's entry in the Byrne book for Ms. She was a pusher. I'm just saying. She was a pusher.

All right. You're not ready to endorse. I share them with our listeners. I'm going to try again. In 2026, I'm going to get my microbiome in check with your gruns. I'm going to get them. Yeah. Okay.

All right. I'm going to plus one the Cozy Earth bubble blanket. I think Cozy Earth that you need to have Cole and Stevie to get. in a beach poo golden doodle cuddle off like I think something could happen there I think it's going to be really cute he loves the bubble blanket he's actually fighting my son for it they go back and forth and sometimes I see Cole kind of trying to drag it out of my son's room but it's really heavy so it's just very hard but it's really cute to watch other things that I want true botanical skincare love it all the time I'm low key sure that this is what is keeping

Samuel Alito looking so fresh-faced, or maybe it's just hate. I'd like to think it's true botanicals, but who knows. But here are some less expensive things. I think we should have a range of different price points here. And I know that true botanicals can be kind of pricey. Something that I absolutely love that is very accessible, elf liquid camo blush. Like you can buy this at Amazon. You can buy it at CVS or Walgreens. It's a liquid blush and you just sort of tap, tap, tap it on your cheekbones. and then blend. And it looks like a really sort of natural flush, like that you were just embarrassed. It's fantastic. Highly recommend. It's in my turn. It is your turn. Yes, your turn. Like, and you better bring it, Jordan. It's something that I want. I have very long hair for those

of you who are watching on YouTube or elsewhere. You can see I have a gigantic afro. So hair care is very important to me. And I've recently started experimenting with different forms of hair care as it gets longer, you know, I try to just see how I can keep it looking beautiful and voluminous. And somebody told me that tea tree leaving conditioner really keeps it shining and keeps it healthy and long. And so I'm definitely looking into the new tea tree brand of leaving conditioners, for those of you with long hair and cruelly hair, then I need to moisturize it after I get out the shower. And I love the pink moisturizer brand, but I'm running low. So things I want is I need an emergency supply of pink. Pink moisturizer is seriously.

old school. Jordan. That was around when I was in high school. Hair style. I have an afro. I mean, the only people I would take hair advice from are Jordan Thomas and Lisa Barlow. So these are endorsements that are worth having. I resent that. Melissa, yeah. I resent that. I was going to see to you, Jordan, you should also try Chromex, which is great for curly hair. Highly recommend. Thank you. So next category, something you need. So I was going to recommend the Peloton app stretching classes. I have basically had problems sleeping since, I don't know, November 2024, December 2024, not sure why, but that's when my insomnia kicked in. And I found that Peloton's evening stretch classes, specifically with Maddie Majocamo,

they, I love them. They're so helpful. Like hip openers really help me relax and like fall asleep. So definitely recommend that. Something you need for the perfect puppy in your life are farm hounds dog treats and badlands ranch food. My dog is obsessed. Okay, so I was debating whether to put this in the want or need category, but I decided need. And the thing that I want to put at the top of my need list is a personalized bobblehead. So is this a moment when I can pull out the personalized bobblehead? It's allowed.

All right. So Leah Littman is the genius behind this personalized bobblehead. Melissa, you've got yours. Jordan has one, but you're at the law school right now. So we didn't tell you to bring the prop. So we will have to post pictures like stills of all these. We'll have to Photoshop it. But, yeah, so this is my personalized bobblehead, which is on my shelf.

It's joining my bobbleheads right now are John Paul Stevens, David Souter, Barack Obama, and now myself, which I think is a collection. I'm pretty happy about it. That's the core. We've been dreaming of. Exactly. Exactly. We need a fifth vote, though, guys. There's four. That's terrible. Melissa. I'm right here. I'm right. Okay, I'm right. I'm right on my bookshelf. Yes. That's right. So that's right. The court is you, me, John Paul, Stevens, Davis, David, Sue, and Brock Obama. Well, that sounds like a missed opportunity on your part to not have a Melissa Murray bobblehead. Okay. So the thing I need is now a bobblehead of my co-hosts. So I can actually have all of us behind me. All right. So that's what I'm going to work on for next year. And actually, this is the office. I don't usually record in this room. But since I am in here, I'm going to show you something else I have, which is actually my husband last year, no, no, no, maybe three years ago, actually, for Christmas got our whole family, these little, like, action figure dolls made of ourselves. And it was like, I think it was an artist. Actually, now it wasn't three years, probably four years ago because it was like a kind of COVID creation.

There was an artist, you know, people found all kinds of crazy ways to try to make money when everything was shut down. And so this artist who I think is no longer doing this was like making these personalized action figures. and it will go well with my bobblehead. So you can also try to find somebody making those. Okay, quickly, a couple other things. Lily Allen tickets. We're going in New York. Leah, you're going to go in D.C., right?

Oh, yeah. I'm going in D.C. I thought I was going in D.C. with at least one of you who said I couldn't go to New York. I could go to D.C., so I get tickets. And then it's like, oh, no, I can go to New York after all. I said I couldn't go in D.C. And then you find them in front of me. Are you looking at me?

I did do that. Yeah, you did. Luckily, you have friends in D.C. Who I know will take those tickets off. I totally for, honestly, Leah, I forgot I did that. I can only blame paramedopause. I just reminded you. Okay, you did.

All right, last thing. And then I'm going to turn it over to Melissa. You need T-shirts made by Leah Lipman, limited edition T-shirts like this one, Strix, Brittany, all along. Can you even, sorry, like my hair is in the way. Oh, yeah, you can see it. Because Leah makes and sometimes gives out these T-shirts at live shows.

like the ones we're going to be doing in California in March. So if you were already thinking about, or maybe even weren't thinking about, but should be thinking about getting tickets to one of our two live shows, one in San Francisco, one in Los Angeles, now you know there are potential T-shirt giveaways in the mix. So get those tickets. And I'm pretty sure I'm going to make just the tip ones. Oh, wow.

That's pretty exciting. Reason enough. Okay. Strict scrutiny is brought to you by Planned Parenthood. Courts matter. The law matters. But so do the people behind the cases, the patients, the families, and the communities that Planned Parenthood serves every day. This year, the attacks on reproductive freedom have been relentless. President Trump and his Congress have defunded Planned Parenthood, a move that harms the health and lives of 1.1 million patients across the United

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slash defend. That's www. planparenthood.org forward slash defend. So things that I need or learn that I needed this year. So first up, Caddus Readers. And yes, folks, macular degeneration is real if you are an older person and I am the oldest person on this podcast. So this year, I got myself some readers and not just any readers.

I got Caddus readers. So these are fashionable. Mine actually are camouflage and they are very, very cool. And you can get them in all kinds of strength. so you can get them as progressive readers where you can see over the top and then under, I don't know, they explained it to me some kind of way.

Either way, I can read again. It's fantastic. I'm going to recommend it to some of the Republican justices so they too can read again. So helpful. So helpful. I'm just the gift that keeps on giving.

In addition to those readers, I also love, and I brought a prop, Blackwing, Matt pencils. Like, I don't know about you, but when I start writing an article or whatnot, I like to actually write it down. on paper, just the tip. And I love writing with these pencils. It just like, it's like a really soft lead. It makes a really nice line. And like sometimes when I'm doodling, I just like doodle all

over my little notes for myself. And I like doing it with a black wing mat pencil. They're really great and they have a really cool eraser at the bottom. So highly recommend that. And then since November 24, as Leah suggested, it's been really hard kind of dealing. with things. So one way that I have been dealing, and I don't recommend this, but every now and again, I think it's nice to open a bottle of as ever rosé from my someday friend, the other MMM, the Duchess of Sussex, Megan Markle, and have a little glass, like a little tipple. I'm disappointed you don't have a prop to show us your open bottle of rosé. Oh, I actually do. We didn't even script that. Let me see that bottle. I would have, like actually I forgot. It's actually

in the done. But, you know, like, it's, it actually is surprisingly good wine that you can buy on the internet. Like, not, it's not all wine you buy on the internet is great, but this is pretty good. I like it. Refreshing. All right, Jordan, over to you. I'll return back to the theme of tickets. So, Lily Allen tickets are, I think for, you know, those who are fans, I hopefully get a chance to see her. But I actually, I really like hard rock. And I know that that's, unusual genre for listeners of this podcast. But those of you who are sympathetic, Evanescence

just announced a new tour with Spirit Box, and I absolutely love Evanescence. Why is he talking about Evanescence? Like, this wasn't a band from the 1990s. Not everybody listens to hard rock. Not everybody listens to hard rock. This is not about age. I'm not sure I would say Evanescence is hard rock. I don't know if that's hard rock. You didn't listen to the... I'm listening to the young

person's genre. I'm going to go with it. That's because you were reading. in the 90s, Kate. Like, we and I, like, I don't know that Evanescence is hard rock. Do you, what do you think, Leah? I say no, but I say no, too. That's fair. And Jordan?

That's fair. I mean, Evanescence, to be fair, I think aside from Lincoln Park is the most mainstream of hard rock bands, when you look at their streams on Spotify, it's basically Lincoln Park and Evan essence. So I love that. They have, you know. I just wonder if maybe the youth have gotten soft, Jordan. Like, maybe that's what happened.

Now it's hard rock, but it wasn't. Well, I think that they're adjacent to other bands that I was going to mention, like Sleep Token, Spirit Box, Bad Omen, Architects. Do you know any of these? Obviously, I do, Jordan. Anyway, all of these bands just released new music. They're all going on tour continuing in 2026. Corn, also a band from the 90s, is going on tour of 2026. So for those of us who are fans of hard rock music, it's going to be an amazing year of concerts that have just been announced.

and I need to get tickets for many of these. I don't know how many I'll actually be able to go to, but I'll try. Aside from that, I'm wearing right now these beautiful set of Sony headphones, and they work very well for me when I need noise cancelling. But what I actually need is there are a pair of behind the head headphones called Marathon headphones that don't squish your hair. And so for those of you who have the same problem that I do that, you love to listen to music, you're listening to it 24-7,

but you need something where you can just sort of, you know, wrap it around your head, good sound quality, and it's not going to mess up your due for the day. They're called Marathon, and I used to have this beautiful pair, and they broke. So I'm now studying for law school finals without my go-to headphones, and I desperately need a new pair of Marathon behind the neck headphones. Marathon, if you're listening to this, you can't buy this kind of publicity. I just want you to know. Some of those to the Yale Law School, 124 Wall Street, New Haven, Connecticut, 0650.

Wait, is the brand marathon or that's a category of headphones that's called? Like, are they for running Are they running? No, it's a brand. If you go and you type in marathon behind the head, behind the neck headphones, so pop right up. So something to wear. My first recommendation is the Form A posture bra. And yes, this is the bra that Taylor Swift was photographed in when she was rehearsing for the Ares tour. And yes, that is, why I bought my first one. But it's so good. Like, it actually helps my back. That's why I thought posture. That's the one that's supposed to give you good posture, right? It helps posture. And seriously, like, it really does help back pain. Like, I love that thing. Really recommend that. And then so this last year, you know, we had the good fortune of being dressed by Argent at one of our live shows. And I am now obsessed. I just love their bright colors and, like, all of the

fond workwear. And yeah, it just like makes, I don't know, like work dressing a lot more fun than it ever was. I also still love the real, real, the outlet. And also anything Melissa recommends I buy, I end up loving. She is my worst enabler. But her taste is unparalleled. So can we tell them about a text exchange we have? Yes. So I got. an email update that the Veronica Beard online store was having some kind of Cyber Monday sale where everything was marked down, some things, just 70% off. Crazy. And so I sent it to Leah.

And I noted, FYI, the iconic scuba jicca jacket, the scuba dickie jacket, is on sale and heavily discounted. And so Leah, I sent her the precise website for it, the URL. Leah clicks on it. And then a few minutes later, I see, like, the dot, dot, dot, she's thinking. And she's like, which color should I buy navy or black? And so I said, both. I was just joking.

But I think that I had to go wash dishes or something. And I think you bought them. Yeah, I did. Again, you're my worst enabler. I was just joking, though. Wait, have they arrived yet? You were just joking. They came, though, and you love them, right?

I do. That's great. They're going to go with everything. You're going to have them forever. Yeah. All right. My turn? Your turn.

Okay, so I am quince-pilled, as you know, and Quince, I think, is well known for its very accessible cashmere, but do not sleep on the yak wool sweaters. Now, I know you're thinking, Melissa, yak-wool does not sound terribly appealing. I, too, was a yak-wool skeptic, but I recently purchased one of these sweaters, and it's surprisingly soft. It's even more accessible than the cashmere. And it's the perfect length for layering with like a white t-shirt and then wearing with like corduroys and your samba. It's like the perfect like lounging around outfit. And I think they're actually very, very durable. They don't pill. I really like it. Highly, highly, highly recommend. Also want to recommend the Uniclo white tea

has a great really close collar if you want to wear it under suits and whatnot. Also looks good if you're wearing a crew neck. They're so cheap. They're like $14 at Uniclo, and you can buy them online. You can buy them in the store. Highly, highly recommend. Also really enjoy the clearly collective collegiate scarf collection. So if you are an alumna of, I don't know, the University of Virginia, there is a scarf in orange and blue, the University of Virginia's colors with the rotunda on it and the lawn. And if you go to some other schools, I don't know, like the University of North Carolina, I guess. They have scarves for you, too. whatever your dumb colors are. Anyway, you can get them. We welcome our UNC listeners, just to be

clear, Melissa. I'm just kidding. We love you and see. They're so great. Anyway, so highly recommend those. And right now, because it's getting cold in New York, I have longed for a hat that will not mess up my pixie. And I found the way soft cashmere beanie on Amazon. It's a little pricey. It's about $65. Like for a hat you might lose, so you got to hold on to it. But it's really, like, oversized. So it doesn't push your hair down and it keeps your coiffor in good shape and you just, like, take off the hat and just, like, sort of fluff your hair and you're fine again. Highly recommend.

Great. I need more, like, Melissa, enabling, kind of shopping in my life. I just don't. I almost never buy anything. I do text you things and you don't respond. Yes. Okay. Because I'm, don't stop doing it.

I'm receptive. I just am sometimes indecisive. But I do think like at least half of the T-shirts I wear. My friend Issa is always saying that. Just like, let me just go shopping for you. But I would say half the shirts I wear in my body are like one's designed by Leah. It's just like they're great. So I will re-recommend Leo Lippman T-shirts of the world.

Our merch store on the website for the podcast, the strict scrutiny merch, now has at least two baby onesies in the collection. That is new. And she loves wearing those two. I personally do not. And yet something to wear is the general category we are in. And I have a tiny new baby nephew. I only hesitated because I was like, I think it was going to be, I'm buying him, or I've ordered him a couple of these, but I don't think his parents listen to my podcast.

So I think it's fine. I'm not going to ruin the surprise. But if you have babies in your life, get some of our onesies. And then the last is since we talked about Cozy Earth, which is the maker of that bubble blanket we were talking about, they also make really nice clothing. And I have a pair of their studio wide leg pants that are just like, at-home pajama kind of trouser pants that I often do also wear out of the house. And they are so soft and so comfortable and I'm completely obsessed with them.

And this conversation is making me remember. I've worn them so much. They're getting a little frayed at the bottom. I should probably get another pair. I love them. You know where they're great for wearing? Where? To the airport.

I wear them on the Amtrak. See, I usually take the train. No, no. When you want to stick it to Sean Duffy? No, because they're also cute. They don't look shlobby. They actually look. They are, they don't look shlobby.

But they are, I don't think women are allowed to. wear pants in that world. Oh, that's true. Yeah, she skirt the heels. Like you will be sticking it to him. You're in your loungewear and your lounge wear's pants and you are a lady. Good point. All right, Jordan, you're up. I'll double down on the strict scrutiny gear. It's basically all I wear these days. It's awesome. Beautiful Lawless hoodie right now and can never get enough of it. I also want Crooked gear. I was at CrookedCon, one of the highlights of the year for sure. But by the time that I went to try to get merged, they actually had closed a merge stand, which is very We are going to fix this.

We are going to hook you up with some gear. That is good to know. But I did see online, you know, follow Crooked on Instagram and all your social media channels. And I saw that you can actually go online and get some of the merch that was at CrookedCon. So if you like me missed your chance to get merch, something to wear is to go on to the crooked site and look at their store. They have a very robust offering of items that I hope to get and to wear. Aside from strict scrutiny or crooked gear, I need a new set of jeans. And I love dark wash jeans.

I love the look of them. You can pair them with most types of outfits. And you can sort of wear them down, wear them up. And so I'm in the market for dark wash jeans. And I love this brand called Mavi jeans. So something to wear. They have a nice dark wash style. They have a darker sort of off gray, black, if you're into that, you know, for the goth people amongst us.

Or if you're just looking for something to pair with a nice sort of top that needs a black bottom. Mavie jeans are amazing. They look great. They feel great. I need some Mavie jeans. Can I ask a question, Jordan? Yes. Is it Mavi M-A-V-I?

M-A-V-I, M-A-V-I, M-A-V-Eans. That's from the 90s, Jordan. Like, all of your picks are in the 90s. I'm an old soul. We're learning something important about you, Jordan. I'm an old soul. Are we going to say the 90s is old school, old soul? Yeah, Jordan.

Let's move over that one. But he's actually a person is just, like this is kind of old-room, I use pink moisturizer, I listen, I have an essence and third-eyed blind. What can I say, Melissa? This is great. This is why we get along so well. Jordan basically our 50-year-old woman is what you're saying. I'm fine with that. I love it. Okay, so one quick addendum before on to something to read. I am wearing this cardigan that Melody got me for my birthday, and I'm obsessed. It's a secret cardigan because Taylor hasn't actually made a reputation cardigan, but this is a reputation cardigan, and I love it. Okay, so on something to read. I'm only going to recommend

fiction. So Alice and Esbach, wedding people. Anything by Julianne Long, I especially enjoyed the Penny Royal Green series. Lisa Clayposs, the Wallflower series, was my favorite. I love Sarah McLean's, these summer storms, V.E. Schwabs, bury my bones in the midnight soil, Liz Moore, God of the Woods. All just fantastic books. You can get them all. at bookshop.org and support your local independent bookstores. I also joined Book of the Month, which I really like, just gift that keeps on giving. You know, you get to select different book every month from among their great recommendations. It's just super fun. Also in the category of fiction, something I wanted to highlight is the conservative slash Republican justices

on the Wisconsin Supreme Court, their fiction, just like making shit up. So by way of background, quickly, the Wisconsin Supreme Court appointed some three judge panels to hear challenges to the state's court adopted congressional map. That sounds weird, just let it slide. You know, when the court was still conservative slash Republican control, they adopted a congressional map. You know, the procedural posture isn't worth getting into right now, but the court adopted the map and said it complied with the Constitution. Now some plaintiffs are challenging the map, which is an extreme partisan gerrymander. You know, the map was drawn using the state legislature's extreme partisan gerrymander as a jumping off point. Anyways.

Several of the conservative justices on the court had an absolute fucking melty and got big mad when the Supreme Court appointed these panels to hear these challenges. And apparently they were so out of their minds. They hallucinated quotes from Supreme Court opinion. So Justice Ziegler, for example, quoted the United States Supreme Court opinion in Moore v. Harper in saying that state court's role in congressional redistricting is, quote, exceedingly limited, end quote. That quote does not appear in more.

and Justice Ziegler has since modified her opinion, but in ways that are nonsensical. So now her opinion says state courts' role in congressional redistricting is exceedingly limited and cites more, but it cites the passage in more that just says state courts may not transgress the ordinary bounds of judicial review in election cases, i.e. that they have a normal role. You know, the opinion is laced with accusations. It, you know, has many different sections, including a part titled a pattern of partisan judicial activism. Justice Rebecca Bradley also has a dissent, and since I love my girl, Rebecca Bradley had to read a line or two from it, quote, I'll just go with the ending. The majority nevertheless entertains yet another kick at the redistricting cat. Unlike Schrodinger's cat, this one most assuredly has been dead for years.

I dissent, end quote. Girl, this one did not work. You know you got to do a wolf, not a cat, right? She missed the memo. Their opinion. But even in the right family. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Like these opinions have big. Like we are infallible because we are final energy. Like how dare you criticize us? But a challenge to this map could undo one of the worst Republican leading partisan gerrymanders in the country. So definitely a case to watch. Okay. I'm going to be a little shorter. No shade. That was great. But I don't have a lot of long quotes from unhinged state Supreme Court justices to read. As I said, fiction.

Right. Okay. So nonfiction, I'm just going to do a little bit. had hoped to be able to say on this pod, I finally finished reading Robert Carrow's the power broker, but I cannot say an untrue thing. And I am so close. And yet I am not done. So I really hope that by the time we get to 20, 26's favorite things, and hopefully well before I will be able to say I'm really done with it. But it's amazing. It's just so fucking long. But I'm inside of the finish line. Other kind of nonfiction books that stuck with me this year, Michael Lewis's, who is government, the Elon Musk biography by Kate Conjure and Ryan Mac called Character Limit was really, really good. John Witts, the Radical Fund. We had John

on the show to talk about it. Those kind of really stuck with me from the last year. And just a couple of fiction books to recommend or re-recommend Allegra Goodman's Isola, so beautiful, Lily King's Heart the Lover, which I've already recommended, Kaveh Akbar's Martyr, and Ben Shadok's short story collection, the history of sound, every single short story in that collection, which is not my genre. Like, I am not a short story fan normally. But I absolutely adored these short stories. All right. Nonfiction, Tina Noles's

matriarch, loved it. I know everyone thinks it's just a little Destiny's Child confessional, but there's actually a lot of black history. She talks a lot about her childhood growing up in Galveston in this very tightly knit black community. Her work in

Houston, how she basically transformed her daughter into one of the world's biggest pop sensations. So, yeah, like Ms. Tina is doing all the things, and you should definitely get on that. I also loved Amani Perry's Black in Blues. Ammani Perry is a former law professor. Now she's just a professor, not just a professor at Princeton, but she's left the law game. And she's just crushing it. She's one of the most formidable thinkers, I think, of our time. She wrote this fantastic book,

South to America. This is the follow-up, Black and Blues, where she talks about the linkages between blackness and the color blue. So there's a lot of meditation on the blues, obviously, but also black blue. And what it means to have color in the absence of color. She's a wonderful writer, a serious thinker, and someone that should be on everyone's radar. Some of you know that my favorite author is Jane Austen. And so I really enjoyed Rebecca Romney's Jane Austen's bookshelf, which are like all the things that Jane Austen and her sister, Cassandra, used to read as they were exchanging letters and she was basically being a petty bitch writing stuff about people

in her village. And like, that's my energy. And so I enjoy it. I enjoy Jane Austen. I love her petty vibe and highly enjoyed this book. In terms of fiction, I think Leah, you like this one too. I really enjoyed Taylor Junkin-Reed's atmosphere, which is a 19, a book, I guess you might call it historical fiction because it takes place in the 1980s as the space program is sort of just, just getting off in terms of the shuttle program, and it's about a group of astronauts. You might like this Jordan since it takes place in the past. There's also Marie Bostics, the Book Club for Troublesome Women. I picked that up because I thought it was about our podcast, but it really wasn't.

It was about something else, but I enjoyed it a lot. And then I also really want to recommend the loneliness of Sonia and Sunny by Karen Desai. It was shortlisted for the Booker Prize. I personally think it should have won. I thought this was one of the best books of the year. So before we go to Jordan, Kate and Melissa, any other nonfiction books, do you especially enjoy this year? Oh, geez, that was this year. Everyone, everyone.

I mean, I thought it was obvious. I know, and Jordan actually gets the gold medal for wearing the sweatshirt. But Leah Lippman's Lawless is a book that was. How do you know we weren't seating just Jordan to talk about it? How do you know that? Maybe you pulled the trigger to you soon. Maybe you were giving it to the intern. Because he is an excellent.

hype man. I wanted to put you two on the spot and not him. Yes, but I think he probably would have done it organically, but yes. Let's let Jordan go. Let's let Jordan go. All right, I'm not going to preempt him, but I will say I do co-signed the endorsement of Lawless that Jordan is about to make. Go ahead.

Go, Jordan. I was actually going to lead with Lawless, so you two are off the hook. It's my top book of the year. We knew that. I just think it's really unique for the genre. It's so accessible. It's funny. it in many ways brought my mom and dad up to speed on what's happening at the courts.

It's always wonderful when I could speak with them about what's going on. So Leah just did a phenomenal job with the book. And I think for those who love American horror story in the Barbie movie and what a mix of pop culture and law, which is this podcast encapsulated in a book so perfectly, that's lawless for you. So just wonderful, deserves a bestseller status that it's attained. Let's go. I just want to say, you know, Leah, have a little faith. We did courting this. Oh, yeah, I'm sure.

I'm sure. He did. I mean, I knew Jordan was going to say it. Look how he's dressed. He's wearing. He's wearing. I was ready. That's fair.

That's fair. Okay. I accept your critiques. Wait, but Jordan, you can leave it there? You are allowed to have. Mic drop, but you are also welcome to endorse other things if you would like. I will say that this book is premiere amongst books, but I will give a few others. Another premiere book, actually, I will say.

husband of the pod, Chris Hayes, the sirens call, how attention became the world's most endangered resource is a phenomenal book. I think for people who are really into the anxious generation and generally thinking about how digital media is really changing all sorts of social interaction and personal cognization, it's just a wonderful contribution to that genre.

And he does a really great job of actually proposing solutions as well and weaving in the law. So just Chris Hayes, the sirens call, does it all. Another front of the podcast, a bad law by Ellie Mistal, 10 laws that are ruining America, sort of walks you through things like stand your ground laws, different gun laws and different states that are really contributing to inequality and injustice across the country that I thought was very well done, especially if you like his other book, allow me to retort a black man's interpretation of the Constitution. It's very much a follow-on to that, and it's

very funny, as Ellie tends to be. A classmate of mine, actually, Yale Law School, Zachier Tommies, just came out with Charles Sumner, Conscience of a Nation. We love that one. Absolutely wonderful contribution. He actually wrote this or started writing it when he was a three-hull in law school. I don't know how he made time to do it. But it's a wonderful new look at a forgotten figure of sorts. Everybody remembers Charles Sumner for his caning on the Senate floor.

But people don't actually appreciate how much he contributed to the Reconstruction era project. Like why he got cane. Yeah. He was actually a radical. He was a part of the radical Republicans at the time. and he had deep links to Frederick Douglass and not just Frederick Douglass, but several early black lawyers in the Reconstruction South and was helping to lead the charge of reconstruction, you know, post antebellum rebuilding. And so just really fascinating look at Charles Sumner from my friend Sokier.

I'll also put out there a new book by Sonia Sotomayor. I think we don't give enough attention to her. We're talking about Anthony Kennedy's new memoir. We're talking about Amy Coney Barrett's new memoir, but I will say Justice Sotomayor just came out with the children's book. It's called Just Shine, how to how to be yourself, how to be great, I think is what it is. And it's really much in this sort of ilk of new children's books that she's put out in the past few years. She had one called Just Ask, Just Help. And so this one's called Just Shine, and it's dedicated to her mother. And it's really showing children how to explore differences amongst people, but also lean into themselves and to be brilliant, to be kind, to be empathetic. And I just think

it's really wonderful. At a time when you have cases like Mahmoud v. Taylor that are making it more difficult for children in schools to access books of sorts because of parental opt-outs, it's really sort of telling that one justice is make it easier for children to access books because she's writing them herself. So I just think it's wonderful. I noticed, Jordan, that although you like to do these throwbacks, you haven't thrown back to another strict scrutiny book, The Trump Endowment. There it is. He said the past year. I thought it was only the past year, Melissa. I'm just going to say this book after this year and this court, this is basically fantasy.

Right. This is a fantasy. It's moved from the nonfiction to the fiction. To fantasy. Correct. Yeah. Correct. This episode of strict scrutiny is sponsored by Cards Against Humanity.

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Did you even know all of that stuff they were doing? Rock on, people. Cards Against Humanity is one of the only companies stupid enough to stand up to President Donald J. Trump. They don't profit from their political. stun. So if you want them to be able to afford a good lawyer, please consider buying one of their new games. There's cards against humanity tales, a book of fill in the blank stories for horrible people. Basically, it's like Fed Sock MadLibs. You're going to love it. Or their shit list, a new way to

play the game where you write the answers. Basically sounds like a shadow docket order from the Supreme Court. Or you can try party mouth, a new party game about shouting obscenities as a coping mechanism for the hellscape that we live in. Basically, that's a strict scrutiny episode. You listen to Crooked Media, so you probably are smart enough to figure out how to buy cards against humanity stuff, so I'm not going to tell you. In any event, Cards Against Humanity apologizes for interrupting your podcast with this BS. Super quickly. Just some highlights of last year and goals for the next. I absolutely loved our time at CrookedCon. It was just like a magical, energetic audience. I loved meeting like the VIPs at our different live shows this last year. This might be surprising to people. I am not an extrovert. And yet I loved meeting all of you, how both of these things can be true. Slightly shocking. Specific live show highlights. Melissa gave me a nickname Sugar Goblin, which I have embraced. I was all getting to eat Giordano's pizza in Chicago. and getting to give a shout out to the state manager's father.

And before the show, Melissa, you learning what just the tip means. We'll not forget that. The DC crowd cheering for a Chevron deference. Judge Breyer making an appearance at our New York City live show. This is a highlight of the last few weeks. So guess what our producer, Melody Rowell's number one song on her Spotify wrapped was? You're never going to guess, so I'm just going to tell you. It's Tate McCrae's sports car.

And this makes me laugh so hard. hard every time I remember it. She gave me permission to share it. It's okay. Melody, it's fine. I listen to Addison Ray's fame as a gun when I stretch. It's all good. One other highlight, completing the marathon swim, about one year after the bike accident. That was a major highlight. Yay. Okay. My highlights, really want to thank the folks at Argent for dressing us for our live shows. Thank you to Sally Christensen and Alex DeCapo Patel for making us look so put together like an amazing rainbow of legal analysis. You were absolutely fantastic. We love that. Another thing I love, but I know Melody hates, is when Cole jingle bombs an episode. And if you don't know

what that means, Cole has a little bell on his collar and sometimes he just walks in and you can hear it and Melody absolutely hates it, but we all kind of love it a little bit. I, also enjoyed our backstage shenanigans. I'm not going to be shamed for not knowing what just the tip is. That was not a shame. We're all here to learn and it's fine. I also really enjoyed meeting Jordan's parents and also Kate's parents. Kate's parents showed up in Chicago. And Jordan's parents, I will co-assign, are just unbelievably lovely people who we've now met at a couple of live shows and are just like angels who walk the earth as far as I can tell. They really are wonderful. Wonderful, Jordan.

They are lovely. Thank you all. Okay, I will briefly agree about the live shows. In D.C., Leah mentioned cheering for Chevron. There was also, at some point, we shouted out the government workers in the crowd, and just this roar came up, and that was relatively early in this absolute dystopic nightmare that we were living through, but just like so much gratitude to the people who are sticking it out and trying to do the people's work.

Some of whom were our students. Yeah. We had some former students. We did. And we also had a member of the D.C. audience who spilled some remarkable tea afterwards. So I'm still thinking about that as kind of a highlight from the last year. Also highlight the same week of CrookedCon. We had a pretty high impact election, including of New York City mayors or on Mamdani, who will be inaugurated just a couple of days

after this episode drops. That feels like an exciting bright spot in an otherwise really, really dark time. My New York City Book Club has also been a great bright spot, lots of recommendations on the WhatsApp in addition to substantive book discussion. I've watched a lot of children's, both middle school and high school basketball in the last year, as both of my older kids are really serious ballers these days. And actually, it's incredibly fun to watch your kids play increasingly high-level basketball, even if travel basketball is kind of the bane of my existence. It's also been incredibly fun. And as awful as this administration, as this court, kind of as the two together are, it has been just an enormous, you know,

source of relief and comfort and often amusement and even joy to get to debrief. fit with you, Leah and you, Melissa, and more recently, you, Jordan, and with our listeners. So that, too, has been a highlight of the last year. Jordan, over to you. Well, the number one highlight, for sure, the past year has been starting to work with you all. I started in January, so coming up almost on the one-year anniversary, and it's just been wonderful.

I remember every live show. I think I went to every single one this year, starting with Fordham in February and onward, and they've all been fun and unique in their own way. Actually, the only one I did not go to was D.C. much to my chagrin because I was graduating that week. And so that's another highlight of the year was I actually finally in this very long JDMBA pathway had a double graduation in May, law school first,

and then 10 days later, business school. And now I'm in this sort of weird semester that remains because of the structure of my dual degree. But once I submit my last exam on December 22nd, I will forever be done with being a student. So it's the end of an era this year, which is, you know, it's a... The legal profession needs you.

It's very exciting to be transitioning now to actually being able to use the knowledge and to try to, in some ways, contribute to this crazy universe that we're in right now. Every single week, as you will all recap on this podcast, it seems like there's something else that's on fire. And if I could try to use what I've learned over the past few years and continue to learn through this wonderful legal education that is this podcast, you know, it's really an honor to be able to do so. So my big highlights, working with strict scrutiny, finally graduating, getting ready to be impactful. And I'll also say listening to strict scrutiny. So on my Spotify wrapped, it said that I listened to 13,070 minutes, which is a little, it's a little over 217 hours of strict scrutiny. And it put me in the top, top 0.05 percent, which I'm hoping means I'm hoping that means I'm the number one listener from the past year. And that was a real highlight.

I think Sam Alito might have you be. The hate listening crowd is pretty strong. He's 0.01%. I'm 0.0.0. No, he hate listening. But all of those are highlights. So some New Year's goals. Speaking of Sam Alito, I want to review Sam Alito's book. I just really want to do that.

I think that would be fun. I like writing book reviews. So I want that to happen. I also want to read uncensored versions of Elena K. against dissent, so I'm going to repeat that request. If there is a crooked con next year, I want it to feel like the same high as this year did, you know, on the heels of the November 2025 elections. I'd also like a Kavanaugh meltdown around that same time, you know, as we had this past year too. And finally, I want the three of us, Melody, Michael, and Jordan to be

in the same places for more extended periods of time. That would be great. I'm just going to do one, which is that I, we're talking about Justice's books. I want Elena Kagan to write a book, but I don't want it to be a memoir, and I don't even really want it to be a law book. I want Elena Kagan to write fiction. I feel like she would slay in that genre. Fascinating. And that's all. Just put it out there to the universe. Okay. I think I'm going to bring down the vibe a little bit. I think my goal for this year is literally just surviving this craptastic administration. I think it's just becoming, I think especially as a person of color, I think it's becoming harder to imagine that you are insulated from the

crap that they're doing, like that, you know, looking at all of the people being, you know, swept up on the streets, like that just because you're a citizen, you're going to be exempt from that. You know, now that they're focusing on Somalis, I think black people can't be assured that they are going to be safe and inoculated from all of this. I mean, it's, so I'm just saying that if you have friends in your lives who fall into these categories of people who are likely to be targeted or look like people who are likely to be targeted, I just think everyone ought to be aware. Like, it just feels really unsafe. And that lack of safety feels very uncertain. Sorry. And that lack of safety feels, oh, like, Cole's like, I will protect, if no one's coming

for you, Cole. It's going to protect me. I just think it feels really. uncertain. And I just, you know, I think the goal is to survive and to take care of each other and to resist this. Amen. In a similar register for me, just more resistance, more energy and passion around continue to make our voices heard. I think that the chaos is the point, the exhaustion is the point. They want us to feel demoralize and to feel like there's nothing you can do in the face of what's happening every single day from ice and the like. But I think that you look at the energy around the no kings marches that took place this year. That was really exciting. More of that in 2026. More marches, it doesn't have to be no kings. Think about what it is that we're passionate

about and try to galvanize some sort of energy and movement behind it. We need to really try to show that the people are resisting and that they're political, but also on the ground, you know, boots on the ground voices being heard consequences to actions being taken by this administration. So more of that in 26 and also more institutional resistance. I think that the judiciary, the lower courts in particular, were great bulwarks of constitutionalism over the past year. And I hope that we continue to see judges like Judge William Young on the District of Massachusetts, right? He got this terrible note that said, Trump has pardons and tanks. What do you have? And he goes on to write this absolutely fire opinion that says, you know, alone, all I have is my sense of duty. But together, you and I,

we have this thing called the Constitution. Here's how that plays out. an opinion. And he wrote this wonderful opinion upholding free speech rights of non-citizens who are being ideologically detained and deported. So I think that continuing to see judges, all the clerks who are working for these judges, continuing to make sure that you uphold the bastion of constitutionalism in our country will be important. So people on the streets, judges and clerks in the courts, and hopefully we can try to fight our way through 2026. Thank you for landing that as the conscience of the podcast, Jordan. Like, that's a great place to, I think, leave it. Strict scrutiny is brought to you by Cook Unity. Guess what, folks? I'm the kind of person

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we thought, appalling performance in both Trump v. Slaughter about the future of independent agencies and also R&C versus Federal Election Commission about campaign finance regulation. And since this is our favorite things episode and independent agencies and regulating money in politics are two of our favorite things. We wanted to bring Ellen into the end of this episode.

So Ellen, welcome back to the show. Thank you so much. Pleasure to be here. Ellen, you are a former commissioner and I think four-time chair of the Federal Election Commission that is traditionally an independent agency and obviously it regulates money in politics.

So you have a lot of skin in both of the cases that the court heard this week. What did you make of those arguments? Well, it was not a particularly uplifting week for me. I sat through, I listened to both of them from start to end, and I think there's a common theme in the two of them, and it has to do with money. It's all about the power of big money in our government and in our society,

and whether the government is going to take any steps to address that or to try and push back against that, the big power of big industries. You know, I know the Supreme Court is very fond of the founders and sort of obsesses about what they thought. But let's face it, the founders were a bunch of guys in powdered wigs who carried muskets, rode on horseback. It's not surprising that they fail to anticipate the needs of a 21st century economy and the need in particular for a cadre of experts

in the government to have any kind of hope of pushback to protect the rights of citizens, consumers, employees against the unregulated power of billion-dollar businesses. I thought it was really interesting. There was a very interesting pair of quotes in the slaughter argument where Justice Sotomayor, she wasn't pulling any punches. She just came right out and said,

you're asking us to destroy the structure of government. And Justice Kavanaugh seemed to be very concerned about the notion of the notion that these agencies are exercising massive power over billion-dollar industries? Well, yes, that's kind of the point, right? We want to have an effective government so that somebody other than the billion-dollar industries and the billionaires behind the billion-dollar industries has a say and that their interests are represented.

Yeah. Well, that was actually a part of the oral argument that I thought was noticeably absent. They were talking these really abstract terms about democracy. about administrative agencies, being unaccountable to the people that somehow Congress is not a democratic institution, but the president is. And no one is really sort of drilling down to the actual reasons why we have a federal trade commission, the fact that it exists to prevent the consolidation of industries, of wealth, of monopoly power. And the very people who lined up to sit behind Donald Trump at his second inauguration are very,

the very same people who stand to benefit from a hobbled or newly reconstituted FTC. And it was like, no one would talk about that. And I think that was also absent from some of the media coverage, honestly. And I think, again, this lack of awareness of what's really going on out there was echoed in the NRC opinion where the justices, I'm sorry, I just don't think they know very much about how campaign finance really works. You don't have to apologize for saying that on this podcast. We agree. This is not the first time that I have heard them say, well, that's totally speculative.

That would never happen about things that are actually happening. You know, back in the Buckley decision, we had a clear statement from the court that said that individual contribution limits were necessary to deal with the reality or appearance of corruption inherent in a system permitting unlimited financial. contributions. And we're pretty close to that system right now because the coordination rules are already. Just more whole than cheese, if you want to analogize it to Swiss cheese. And that is partially, I have to say, the fault of the FEC, which usually over my objection, had a number of decisions over the years that really opened the door to more and more interactions between

the donors and the political committees and the candidates. But the notion that all of this money is going to be stockpiled and added up and then funneled back to the candidates, we have seen this exact thing happening as long ago as the 2016 election. And it was both sides, both the Clinton campaign and the Trump campaign, had these massive joint fundraising committees where they were collecting contributions in increments of hundreds of thousands of dollars, and you know, if you wanted to really push it, you could get to a million or perhaps more from individual donors. All of this money supposedly legal because it went to individual accounts of the individual state committees. But what really happened was that it went into their accounts

and then immediately bounced back to the National Committee to be used for the benefit of the presidential candidates on both sides. And we had a number of the state party committees who actually got dinged by the FEC. The larger problem was not addressed by the FEC, but they failed to report that they got these contributions and then sent them back to the national committees because they were in their bank account for such a short amount of time. They didn't even know they were there. So the notion that this kind of circumvention is not going to happen, that it's speculative or hypothetical, is completely untethered. to reality. Well, that wasn't the only thing I would say this week that was pretty untethered to

reality. There just, there seemed to be a desire to dwell in the realm of abstraction. I would say in both of these arguments and either a kind of a bad faith, either failure to or just refusal to kind of acknowledge some of the on the ground dynamics. I think that was absolutely true in both of the cases. So let me ask, if I am not mistaken, Ellen, you like Rebecca Slaughter, were fired by Donald Trump and both to the extent that that gives you some special insight into some of the dynamics that we heard about in both of these arguments, but also sort of what unfettered presidential control has meant just in the year that Trump has been back in office and will mean going forward at an agency like the FEC,

although feel free to comment more broadly, and also kind of what it might mean to unleash that throughout other pockets of the federal government because we really struggled to find a limiting principle that the lawyer arguing against this agency independence was able to identify in the slaughter argument. And I think that is very dangerous. It's going to mean a loss of independence. It's going to mean, a loss of independent voices. I mean, let's remember that the FEC is a little bit unusual in that it has an even number from each of the two parties. Most agencies are actually under the control of the president and his party, because most of the independent agents,

most of these multi-member boards, which is, you know, what we were talking about in the slaughter case, have an odd number, and the chair is appointed by the president. So he's got control over these agencies. It's not a question of the president being these agencies acting without any input from the president, but what you're going to lose are any independent voices, and you're also going to lose if this goes down below the very top echelons of these agencies, you're going to lose expertise, and that's already starting to happen, obviously, across government, because, A, the president fires people that he doesn't like their opinions, but B, it's going to be much more difficult to

recruit good people, to come back into government. Why would somebody want to build a career on providing service to the American people, good public-spirited people that are already working throughout the government or have been working throughout the government, how do you get those people to have the incentive to come back to government if they know that they're going to have no job security and any time they voice an opinion that's contrary to the president, it'll just they could just get fired. And the firing of people like me who did speak out, I think was intended and received as a message of intimidation to other heads of agencies and to other government employees. So I think all of that is going to be to the detriment of the American people.

Ellen, you mentioned these people that the president is firing in violation of these terms that Congress has said that now maybe the Supreme Court will make permissible going forward. How did you experience the process of being fired by the president from your post at the FEC? Some people have said that they got an email from someone. Others have said that they were supposed to get an email, but the person sending the email, type their name wrong, so they never got the email. They found out from a co-worker who was C-Ced. I mean, it just sounds like, you know, they're really doing this government thing at a really high level, like A-plus work here. Can you tell us your Trump firing story? Yeah, I got an email. I actually was not in the office. It was late on a

Thursday afternoon, and I was out of the office, so I was not staring at my email. It was a two-sentence letter. You're removed, effective immediately. Thank you for your service. They did say thank you. You did get a thank you. I did get a thank you. I was called, but, but A, the letter was dated a week earlier, so I don't know where it was during that week, but it was dated January 31st. I didn't get it until February 6th. And then it was copied to both the staff director and the general counsel of the agency. And I think, as I said before, I think that was intended and received as a message. Like, we're watching you too. So this person is the first to go. And if you don't make sure that she's out of the building, then, you know, other people could follow. And I was subsequently

cut off from my email. I was removed from all. I couldn't get access to the databases. They, they, um, decommissioned the chip in my, uh, ID that allowed me access to the building. Um, you know, I was given a little bit of time to clear out my office, which, you know, was nice, I guess. But, um, it was, uh, I was not surprised to be removed by the president, but I thought that what would happen would be that I would be replaced in the normal course, as would have been consistent with the law. But that is not, in fact, what happened. And by the way, another ramification of all of these firings

is that it's a death-by decapitation of various agencies, including the FEC. The FEC is supposed to have six commissioners, four is a quorum, and now it's down to two. All of the Republican commissioners left this year, one to join the administration, one to go into private practice, one to run for Congress. And then I was fired, so they don't have a quorum.

And there are no nominations pending. So this is another way that the president fails in his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed. That's the sentence that the originalists don't quote quite so often, also from the Constitution. But Congress set up this agency. They set it up in particular as a bipartisan body. And if the president can just fire people willy-nilly so that there is no functional quorum,

the agency can't enforce the law, it can't interpret the law, it can't do anything that it's, any of its major important jobs. And the FEC is not the only commission that's been effectively decommission. You know, the NLRB, I think, is in the same situation. There are probably others. I think the CPSC maybe lacks a quorum, too. But, Ellen, this is so interesting. I mean, the point about dismantling by decapitation.

So, Ramon Martinez, in the argument, said that this case was basically moot because the administration wasn't going to enforce it. He might have actually been exactly right, but for a different reason. Like, they're not going to enforce it because there's not going to be an FEC. Yeah, I think, or he's doubly, he's right for even more reasons that he was identifying. But it did that when you were talking, Ellen, it made me think that, you know, their effort to completely sort of slash and burn federal government under the leadership. of Elon Musk and Doge was actually pretty unpopular in certain respects, but I wonder whether

this reflects a kind of effort to in more, you know, kind of genteel-looking ways, like to just exercise the president's rightful Article 2 power, but essentially get to the same place, which is agencies that can do none of the work that Congress empowered them to do, and that the people often really need to go back to the first thing you said, to do things like protect consumers prevent corporate consolidation, protect laborers, and so much more. So before we go, Ellen, as you know, this is our favorite things episode. And as we've already said, agency independence and campaign finance regulation are among our favorite things. And dismantling them is one of our least favorite things. So we've covered some of that ground.

We now want to invite you to share with our listeners some of your favorite things. Well, I'm sorry that Lee is not here because I actually have some recommendations for her because like her, I like a good mystery. Oh, good. She'll listen. Don't worry. For Leah, some of the series that I've been listening to or reading that have

given me a little bit of joy this year are the Veronica Speedwell series from Deanna Rayburn, which is just very diverting, shall we say. An Australian series by an author named Benjamin Stevenson that starts off with a book

called Everyone in My Family has killed someone. And it is quite saying, it's funny. It's, as I said, diverting. I'm reading the latest Louise Penny, the Black Wolf. She's always wonderful. And then on a more serious note, I listened to the audio version of Judy Dench's memoir, Shakespeare, the man who pays the rent, which I found, you know, just wonderful and lovely for Shakespeare lovers out there. This is Happiness by Neil Williams, set in a little Irish town, very transporting. Anything by Amor Toll's and Elizabeth Strout, I would recommend. And I also recommend getting out into the fresh air.

I did some travel this year, saw animals, went on a safari with my daughter, and that was really special. Does Judy Dench read her own memoir? Actually, she doesn't because her eyesight isn't very good anymore. I see. But they found an actress who sounds like her to read it. So you feel like it's her reading it. There are some excerpts.

There are a few little sections of her reading things, but the rest of it is an actress who sounds like Judy Dench, reading Judy Dench's memoir. It's still good. It's fun to listen to. There's a dupe for everything. All right. Well, Ellen Meintraub, thank you so much.

It's always great to spend some time with you. Happy holidays. Stay strong, be well. Thank you. Before we take off, let's do a little housekeeping. Guess what, West Coast Stricties? We are headed your way. That's right.

Strictney is headed to the. best coast, and we hope that you will be there to catch us. We are going to be in San Francisco on March 6 at the Herps Theater. You can catch us there, and you can just take Southwest or drive all the way down the five to L.A. and catch us the next night, March 7th, in Los Angeles, at the Palace Theater. Both nights are going to be absolutely fantastic. We are going to do what we always do, which is to say we are going to get you up to speed on this court. There may be a little bit of dragging, who is to say, it's all going to be amazing. We almost always do games at live shows. They're often pretty epic. Always games. Like games, we're going to be impeccably dressed.

Well, Melissa will be. Lea, too. I'm not, I mean, I mean, we'll see. I think Argent's going to be dressing us. And if Argent won't dress us, we're going to wear our pajamas because we're getting on planes. And we want Sean Duffy to know that he can't tell us what to do. So there you are. We might just do the whole show in our pajamas just because we're not dressing up because you say so, secretary lumberjack anyway but and if you want to know what what outfits we're really going to be wearing on the stage you're going to have to buy tickets show up to see you've got to be there you've got to be there show up bob we've been recording for such a long time i literally like is he a senator is he a secretary secretary i like it i just i just kicked my ring light oh god okay

somebody somebody got our court let's land the plane land the plane um so we're going to be landing this plane in san francisco then we're getting on another plane and headed to l-a and we're We're going to catch you there. So grab your tickets now at cricket.com forward slash events. You can get them right now. They make amazing holiday gifts. You know there's someone in your life who's like, you know what I need for the holidays? I need to drag this court.

Get that person some tickets for March 6th in San Francisco or March 7th in L.A. You know what to do. Make it happen. Strict scrutiny is a Cricket Media production hosted and executive produced by Leah Littman, Melissa Murray, and me, Kate Shaw. Produced and edited by Melody Rowell. Michael Goldsmith is our associate producer. Jordan Thomas is our intern. Audio support from Kyle Segglin and Charlotte Landis. Music by Eddie Cooper. Production support from Katie Long and Adrian Hill. Mattugroote is our head of production. And thanks to our digital team, Ben Heathcote, Joe Matoski and Johanna Case. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. Subscribe to Strict scrutiny on YouTube on YouTube to catch full episodes. Find us at YouTube.com slash at strict scrutiny podcast. If you haven't already, be sure to subscribe to strict scrutiny in your favorite podcast. podcast app so you never miss an episode. And if you want to help other people find the show, please rate and review us. It really helps.