Strictly Anonymous Confessions - 081 - Cirque has a Pretty Fucked Up Past

Episode Date: July 6, 2015

Former guest Cirque (ep. 78) calls in to explain why he thinks he is, the way that he is. He gets into his fucked up, "murderous" past as well as explain what went down after he let his girlfriend listen to his last appearance on the show. Why did he let his girlfriend lsiten to the show? Was she pissed after she listened to the show? What was it like to have a murderer in his family? Has he ever been in jail himself? Tune in to find out as well as find out a whole lot more. **To see anonymous pics of my female guests + hear anonymous confessions + get all the episodes early and AD FREE, join my Patreon! It's only $7 a month and you can cancel at any time. You can sign up here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/StrictlyAnonymousPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and when you join, I'll throw in a complimentary link to my private Discord! MY BOOK IS NOW OUT FOR PRE-ORDER!!!! Strictly Anonymous Confessions: Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers. A bunch of short, super sexy, TRUE stories. GET YOUR COPY NOW: https://amzn.to/4i7hBCd To Join SDC and get a FREE Trial! click here: https://www.sdc.com/?ref=37712 or go to SDC.com and use my code 37712 Want to be on the show? Email me at [e-mail] or go to http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com and click on "Be on the Show" Have something quick you want to confesss while remaining anonymous? Call the CONFESSIONS hotline at 347-420-3579. You can call 24/7. All voices are changed. Sponsors: https://bluechew.com Get your first month FREE! https://butterwellness.com/ Try the Butter Wellness perineum massager and use code STRICTLY for 20% off your entire order Follow me! Instagram https://www.instagram.com/strictanonymous/ Twitter https://twitter.com/strictanonymous?lang=en Website http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com/ Everything else https://linktr.ee/Strictlyanonymouspodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Strictly Anonymous podcast. Conversations with online strangers. We place ads online. Craigslist is definitely the gift that keeps on giving. Real people respond. You go to Singapore or Thailand. You can't not do it. The temptation is just too much.

Does your friend know that you're banging her? No, he has no idea. And anything goes. The motto of the show, let your reflect lie. Probably the only good advice I'll ever give you is to re-hide your whips and check. Here are your hosts, Kathy Kay and Tommy. Hey, welcome strictly anonymous podcast with Kathy. If you want to be on the strictly anonymous podcast with me as a guest, because you have a problem or you just want to reveal a secret life that you have or you just want to vent out some shit, you could be on the show.

I'd love to have you on the show. Email me at strictly anonymous podcast at gmail.com. Again, that's strictly anonymous podcast at gmail.com. I advertise on Craigslist and other places, and just so you know, it's like striking gold when I go on there. I get the best people from those places. But I also have got really great people to call into my show who were listeners. So I know that there's people out there that are living very interesting lives,

secret lives or interesting lives that aren't a secret, or who have a problem or problems. And they want some unprofessional advice. I'd love to have you on the show. I have a listener to the show back on. He's a guy, Cirque, I think is his name? He's a guy that I had on really recently a couple weeks back. And he talked all about all the crazy sexual stuff that he did in his time.

And afterwards, what happens is they always email these guys afterwards and these girls saying, thanks for being on my show, blah, blah, blah. I'll send you an email when your episode. is up and he emailed me back and he sort of copped to a bunch of things in the email when he wrote back this was circ uh serk uh sirk wrote me back and said after his episode posted that a he let his girlfriend listened to it which was i thought was kind of fucked up because his girlfriend like shit that he said on there wasn't something that you most things you wouldn't want your girlfriend here because he talked about her um but uh a he told me he told his girlfriend and she was like acting weird ever since

she listened to it. And then B, he told me that he lied about some stuff or he got, like, he did kind of lie a little bit about some stuff that he wanted to complain about. And also he went into some stuff about his past and his childhood growing up in which he thought was maybe the reason why he, you know, sort of did or does the things that he does. Because basically, he's not so much a cheater. He doesn't really cheat. He just does a lot of like really crazy things sexually. So I was like, let's have you back on the show. We'll talk about the fact that you let your girlfriend listen. I mean, listen to the episode. We'll talk about the fact that you lied and then we'll get into your history, which is really interesting. He comes from a really interesting background. He

has a lot of interesting stories. He had a lot of interesting stories on the first podcast and this podcast is not disappointed. It's just as interesting. Cirque's an interesting guy. He's kind of funny if you ask me. But he also, like I said, leads a very interesting life and has an interesting pass and that's what we get into. So I'm just going to get right on it and be right back with Cirque. Before I get right back on with Cirque, I should do my little intro stuff that I was supposed to do. Like, follow me on Twitter. My personal Twitter is cartoon therapy at Cartoon Therapy. The show's Twitter is at Strict Anonymous. Subscribe to my podcast. If you haven't yet subscribe to it for some reason I think it's great for me for people to subscribe to it

as well as write me a review I love reviews I need reviews if you could write a review that would be great also what else I think I already said if you want to be on the show I'm not going to put out my book until it's a hard copy because the hard copy is much better and that's about it so I'm going to come right back on with Cirque or I'll be right back on with cert do you have a story lifestyle or situation you can't talk about to anyone, to anyone? Or do you just want to let your freak flag fly and be on the show? Well, Strictly Anonymous wants to hear from you. Send us an email, Strictly Anonymous Podcast at gmail.com, with your story and your anonymous name.

And remember, everything is strictly anonymous. Strictly anonymous. Hey, Sirk, is that what we call you? You're on the air at Strictly Anonymous Podcast. Cirque, Cirque part two. Is that what I'm going to call you on this call? Because you email me at a different fake name. I'm assuming all your names that I deal with you are fake, right?

But, and we went through a couple different fake names that you wanted for the podcast, and we agreed on Cirque. That's what you want me to call you? Because this is Cirque part two, right? Sure. Okay. Sure. All right, listen, Cirque.

I read through, yeah, what were you going to say? You want to be Cirque on this call, right? Yeah, you can call me anything. care. You don't care. You could call me whatever. Okay, whatever. You want to be called whatever? That's a good name. You can hear me, right, though, right? I could totally hear you. Can you hear me? I hear you fine. Yeah. I just check you on the volume. I think you're cool. So, you know, we're having a part two with you because like after you were on my podcast, I always sent someone like a thank you email and then you wrote back and you settled. You revealed a lot of other things, right? Now, I don't know

where you want to take this call. I have an idea of where I want to take it. It's sort of like a little bit deeper into who you are as a person and also like the little thing about the the the girlfriend so it would be like two things some of the stuff that you revealed in an email to me after the podcast about like your history and where you came from and why maybe you are the way that you are but the other thing was which i want to get into first is that you emailed me right after and like oh i told my girlfriend about your podcast and it's been weird ever since and i thought that was very passive aggressive of you and pretty indicative of some sort of like commitment issue maybe or something because who the fuck would tell their girlfriend to listen after what you said?

What did you say? I said, I was trying to fill it a word for you. I was thinking that you were saying that I had some sort of a character flaw. On some level, you do think I have a character. No, listen, I think most people are born perfect and then we get really fucked up just because we're human beings and we need to be fucked up. And then we work on that shit. So is it a character flaw or is it just like? you know, some sort of dysfunctional.

Like you mentioned in one of your emails to me that the word commitment issues. So you obviously think you have them. You know, I'm not putting that on you, but you think that. And I just think, you know, you telling your girlfriend to listen. Because listen, I'm assuming you remember what you said on that podcast. And I do. It was like right after you let her listen. You said things like I'm like, Dr. Guy.

I don't even care about relationships. Like if I lose her, I'll just find somebody else. Like nobody that's in love what somebody wants. to hear their person say that. Do you know what I mean? But yet you letting her listen to that. It's like you gave it to her in a silver platter and said, here, here you go. I don't really care about you that much.

Like, why would you do that? There's something passive-aggressive about that to me. It's because I'm an idiot. Mm-mm. Mm-mm. Mm-mm. No way, dude. I call bullshit on that, okay?

And if you want to call in for a part two and you want to get in and maybe have me psychoanalyze you a little bit deeper, which we agreed to. too in those emails, I feel like, then you're not going to be able to take that. Because you have this sort of outside appearance of like very casual. I don't give a shit. And it is kind of, it does work for you. It is very charming. It is kind of hilarious.

And I think you get away with murder because of it. But I think it's a little bit of bullshit. And I'm sure your girlfriend would agree with me or anybody that knows you really well would agree. That sort of thing that you put out there, which is like, oh, I can't help it. Like this victimy sort of funny, laid back. I just do whatever I want vibe is something else, okay? I don't buy it if I'm going to, if we're going to go deep.

You know what I mean? I'd buy it on a surface level because it's made for a good podcast. But I think that that whole like I can't help it thing is a fucking act. Like that's bullshit. I think that it's deeper than that. Why would you let your girlfriend listen to that podcast? Exactly. I don't know.

I don't know. Let's find out. Yeah. What do you mean? What would you, you get off that podcast? What is wrong with you, dude? Let's go back to your history because, you know, you revealed a couple things in your email to me that were fascinating about your upbringing and your background. You said you thought you had, you know, post-traumatic stress disorder, which I totally believe in. And I'm sure that's a part of it.

And you went into some stuff about your parents that were fascinating. Like your mom was like 15, right, when she had you and your dad, you want to just explain the stuff that you said? Like, it's cool for me to bring it up, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we can talk about that. Okay, like your dad was in jail for murder, right? And you said a lot of people in your family had been murdered. So like what's with your murderous history?

That's like the second time I use that word. Is that a word murderous? Is murderous a word? It's not? Yeah, it's a word. Oh, okay. I really like it. I really like that word.

I'm going to use it more often. And I'm glad I get to use it on this podcast. So you have a murderous history, okay? Like you come from a murderous background, right? Like your dad literally murdered people. was in jail, right? Well, he was a drug dealer. Okay.

My dad was the baddest motherfucker in around. Okay. Wait, is your dad still alive? You're talking about him in the past tense, or is he still in jail? Like, what's the deal with him now? Honestly, I don't know. I've only spent about two days with him in my whole life.

Okay, so let's go back. So he was the baddest motherfucker around. What do you mean if you only know him for two days? Like you just, like the history of him or the story of him? Uh-huh. I, it's so, it's such a small world. I work with, I work with a dude who grew up with my dad. Mm-hmm.

You know, so a lot of the stories that I hear about him come from people that I know. And obviously, like my judgment about myself based on who my guy was. Right. Totally. My mom always used to tell me that my dad was this great dude, you know. He was, he was very artistic. He was, he was a musician. been more than 15 years old, just shredding on my left paw. My dad, or my mom comes downstairs, and she sees me, and she's like, you look, just like

your dad. Oh, right. Played a left pole and a marshal. How old was your dad when your mom was 15 and she got pregnant with you? How old was your father? Do you know? He was like 19. Okay.

And did they stay in touch? Were they together for a while? Oh, no. It was just. After my dad went to prison, anything like that. I mean, he killed somebody. He's not, I don't want to say he's a good guy, but I don't want to say he's a bad guy. No, you know what my therapist would say?

Both things exist. Like, I learned that from my therapist. Like, you always, we always want to put people in one category. You know, someone's good or they're bad. But a lot of people are both good and bad, you know, like that different things can the same, like those two things can exist in the same person. And it's very hard to wrap your head around that at most time because a lot of people, I know for me, I always like to be black and white.

It makes more sense to my, my long. logical brain, but most of the time, you know, you have to accept both things. So I think it's really great that your mom as a woman, you know, sort of, you know, foster the positive things of your father in your mind for you because a lot of women don't do that. And I think that that's great. But like, when you say, like, so he got her pregnant and then went into jail. Like, I mean, do you know what happened in their relationship at all? I mean.

Yeah, I do. I know the reason. Okay. So I'm working with this guy that grew up with my mom and my dad. And he said, so did you ever forgive your aunt? And I said, I'm like, well, forgive her for what? And she's like, you know, for fucking your dad and making her mom and dad break up. Oh, interesting.

So my dad cheated on my mom with her sister. Oh, my God. I have a friend whose sister fucked her boyfriend. Like that's serious shit that right there, okay. Yeah, that's a deal breaker, but it wouldn't have mattered anyway because he went to prison for 15 years. Okay, but wait, don't jump to that. So wait, he screwed your mom's sister. How old was your mom's sister?

Do you know? Is she older or younger? Oh, my God. So he was 19 screwing like a 12-year-old. I mean, that might be, he might have, the story might be. I never did that math, but yeah, you're right. Yeah, that's called rape math. Okay.

The story might be your dad got your mom pregnant and then he raped her sister. that's not only that but when I okay so one day me and my mom are drinking some wine and I was like mom what the fuck were you thinking like didn't you know that my dad was kind of like what why'd you even fuck him and she says well I didn't actually consent to it oh so he was one does not simply tell one does not simply tell my dad no my dad was a bad motherfucker I'm telling me he was like a kingpin in the city that that I not grew up in, but was born in. Right. So at 19, even at 19, he was already establishing that relationship as this, like, badass criminal dude. Oh, people. At how old?

And how did he kill them? Like, was it straight up, like, drug dealing, that kind of stuff? Or, like, I, like... Yeah. What happened was they... He was in a hotel, they... Or a motel, rather. It's some reservoir dog shit, man.

him and his buddy were in a most, they got a motel and they were slinging heroin and cocaine out of motel too much to the point where I was like, this is some bullshit. And some people got pissed and they came after him. They wanted their money back. The story that I heard, his friend let him in and inside the door, like so that you couldn't see him. And he had, this dude had a gun. Like, this guy was going to either get his money or he was going to kill him. my dad. Right, right. And my dad, okay, so he didn't like, maybe he wasn't meaning to kill him. Maybe he was just trying to knock him out so he didn't kill him. I don't know. You know, we don't know the mind of

your dad, but did he, but he killed other people, right? Was this the only person? The person that I heard of. Oh, okay. I thought. That was the reason why I went to prison for 15 years, that and drug and charges. Right. And that happened when he was 19, when you were like in utero. Like, you were like, your mom hadn't even given birth to you yet? No, I was like back until I was around two years old. Okay. This is why, I'm sorry, but this is why you have to

judge Judy people into corners because like you tell a story and it sounds one way, but if you really ask specific questions, it gets a little bit different, which is more interesting to me. So you were around two. So he was in your life for two years. So he was maybe 21. Maybe when he fucked my aunt. My aunt was probably

15 or 16. She might have not been 12. She probably wasn't. Okay, so your parents were together, though, for those two years or your dad was like... For two years, yeah. Okay, so your dad was in your life for those two years. Yeah.

Okay. And then he screwed your aunt. I don't remember when I was two. Yeah. See, so maybe your father wasn't raping a 12 year old. Maybe he was like fondling a 14 year old. You know, things change when the story changes. You know, that rape math changes a little bit

because it's two years later now, right? So while your mom, after your mom has you as a child, and they're together kind of like raising you. They don't get married or anything, I'm assuming, right? No, they did actually. My mom actually married him. Okay, so they got married after you were born? Yeah.

Okay. I assume. Okay. And then he screwed your mom's sister and they broke up, obviously, and got divorced, right? Yeah. And then he killed somebody in the hotel? Yeah. Okay.

And then how long after they got divorced? Like, how old were you when he went to? jail. I can only do the math because I'm young to really know, but I'm thinking probably around 21 years old, maybe. Okay. So you would definitely, like, I would think, listen, we don't think that we have any kind of, even if we don't have memory of those first couple of years, those are really the formative years. And I believe that those are definitely the years and the months and the days that we form all of our attachment, you know, sort of abilities. Like, or that's where we get attachment issues or get, you know, in those

beginning years. So I feel like you would definitely have abandonment issues if you had this person in your life for those two years. I'm assuming you don't have any memory of it, right? Yeah, I agree with what you do. But then he leaves, you know, so that would definitely give you a sense of abandonment for sure.

And, you know, you would have those kind of issues. So he goes to jail now. Does your mom, so your mom never writes him, never communicates with him in jail, but she does create like a positive image of your father for you. Yes. All those years.

But you never were taken to see him and she never kept in touch with him or anything like that, right? No, no. Do you remember how old you were when you heard the story or when it was explained to you where your dad was and what was going on?

Because, like, you know, you don't remember having a dad, right? So you just grew up knowing your mom. And when did you start having questions of, like, who your father was and where the fuck was he now? I'm like, how come my friends have dad? Where's my dad? Right.

And what was told to you at that time? My dad, or my mom told me that my dad was a really good dude, but he's in a place where he can't see me. But he would if he could. Right. Okay. And then when you got any, like, older to, like, really be able to comprehend that more, like, was there ever a time that you wanted to reach out to him and that you knew that

that that place that he was in, that he can't contact you was jail, right? Eventually, you realized that that was jail, right? Yeah. And then at that point, did you ever have the desire yourself to sort of reach out to him, write him a letter, go visit him or anything like that? And when was, how old were you when you found out what he was in jail for? Like, what is that impact on you, you know, when you find out that your dad actually, like, killed somebody? Do you remember realizing, like, how old you were when you had to sort of take all that in? I was probably around 15 years old.

Right. And how did you find out? Was it something that your mother told you were? did you find out in one of these weird ways that you say that, you know, from a stranger on the street or your co-worker or something? Well, okay. My aunt, the one that he cheated on my mom with, she really loves my dad. She loves him. Obviously.

And she would talk about him all the time, you know. Like, she would just tell me, I mean, most of what I know about my dad I went from my. Mm-hmm. And so who told you about? about like, oh, this is why your dad's in jail, that story or like that he killed somebody. Like, you remember at 15 figuring that out. How did you find out? Did your aunt tell you?

Yes. Right. And how, like, I don't even know. I can't even imagine. Like, I can't imagine because that's, I don't know anyone that's ever done that. But, like, how does that make you feel, like, on the deepest level when you find that out about your dad? It wasn't just my dad.

My whole family was involved in organized crime, shady. shit. You mean your mom's side? Well, yeah, on my mom's side, too. I never really even knew anybody on the guy's side. Right, okay. But my grandmother, my mom's mom, she married it, dude, as a former Maryland as a part of a witness relocation.

Like, he turned state evidence on some shit that he was involved in that he was guilty of. He ratted on... Co-workers? Yeah, with mob. basically the police. But he was a part of it, but he was the one that sort of ratted, like you say, or snitched on the thing, and then he was put in the,

and he got out and he was put in the witness protection. Yeah, but that didn't stop. I'd never stop him. What he was doing? Okay, so this, my grandpa bought in Korea. Mm-hmm. He was in a tank battalion. He came back.

He was a cop. Mm-hmm. Internal affairs on his little turnstates evidence that he met my grandma. I told you. I'm in, everybody in my family really attracted. Okay. My grandma was gorgeous. Okay.

And he was a powerful, like, this is really where the power of men, according to me, comes from, is their fearlessness. Mm-hmm. I mean, if you're willing to die, you can do anything. Right. I mean, if you're not afraid of that, you can accomplish anything. Right. You have nothing to lose. And you feel that women are very attracted to.

to that sort of fearlessness. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But sometimes I believe that like men and women, or women get attracted to men who are sort of deep down inside weak and they, but they're sort of bar, you know those kind of guys. There's a lot of men who sort of project that fearlessness, but they're actually like wusses deep down inside. I know a lot of those kind of guys.

You know what I'm saying? But you're... Everybody. No, there are... Right. No, but there are some people that are truly fearless. And then there's some people that are really fearless. and then there's some people that are gripped by fucking fear.

Okay, some of the guys that I know that are the most weakest men are the most meanest, loudmouth, big muscle head dudes that are, their bark is so much bigger than their bite. I know a couple of those people, and they exist. And we all know deep downside their week. But there are some people that are fucking fearless. And I do like those people. And I am attracted to those people. And I do high five those people because that person does exist. And it is, there is power in that, you know, because fear holds you back.

You know, when you could look fear in the face and say, fuck off, I'm going to, like, go into it. That is, to me, the definition of someone that's, you know, powerful over somebody that's not. So, but let's get back to. Yeah. Okay. That's just love. Okay, really?

Okay. We could get into analyzing. I don't know. That's like going to a whole other place. But listen, we're not stoned. Okay. So go back to your story. So your grandfather marries your grandma because she's hot and she's attracted to the fact that he's powerful and kills people.

So how do they. get together. So they get together and then they have your mom. No, no, that was, this was my step-grandpa. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. My grandma. Your family tree has a lot of branches on it. Yes.

Okay. Yeah. And you know what? That guy was abusive that pretty much everybody in my family, everybody in my family hates that man except me and my mom. He was so good to us. Okay. You treated everybody up like shit. It's weird.

Mm-hmm. So he marries a woman, and then he has a baby with somebody else, and that's your mother. Is that what you're trying to tell me? No. Focus. It's hard for me to explain it without using names or pseudonyms. No, but, yeah. Okay.

So all of my aunts have five kids, three aunts for my mom and an uncle. Mm-hmm. And then she divorced that, dude, because she was a fucking raging alcoholic. This grandmother of yours This pretty grandmother who married The Baltimore, you know, snitch cop Yeah.

Okay. That was her second husband. Okay. But then she has a third one who winds up to be your real grandfather, right? Oh my God, I'm so fucking confused. She'll get to the point where she fuck some guy and she has your mother, okay?

That's the first one, the Baltimore guy? No. The Baltimore guy is the second one. Okay, so before him, she went. So this is where, Because what we're getting into is the fact that other people in your family are corrupt, too, on your mom's side, not just your dad. So basically what you're saying, because I initially asked you a question, like, how did it make you feel when you found out your dad was like a murderer? You know, and you were like, well, I'm assuming it wasn't that crazy because you had been dealing with the fact that your whole family sort of had this sort of tainted past, right?

Like other people in your family. So you had this, you know, step-grandfather that was like, you know, a cop gone. bad and did stuff, then you had other people in your family that were that way as well? Yeah. Who's been murdered, and how did they get murdered? Well, the first person in my family, he was my cousin, and his stepdad killed him while his mom was working. Like, he was crying.

We were little. We were the same age. We were like four. Mm-hmm. And this was one of your mother's sisters or brothers' kids? Oh, okay. Mm-hmm. So he was murdered by somebody, by the stepfather when he was sleeping.

Do you remember that happening? Pictures of us playing. Mm-hmm. Like, my mom would show me pictures. Mm-hmm. And I'd be like, who's that kid? And she would tell me that it's my cousin. Right.

That kid him. Okay, so who else? So, you know, I believe that, listen, even if we don't sort of have, like, vivid memories about these stuff, these things imprint in us on some level, even when. Everything that's going on when we're young. I don't remember anything about my childhood, but I know I got fucked up from it. So there had to been stuff that, you know, I sort of experienced but blocked out of my memory that subconsciously, you know, rules my life, right? And that's definitely what happens to most of us.

That's what it's all about, right? So all this stuff was being put on you when you were younger. And even though you don't have a memory on it, on some level it subconsciously, you pick that up. And then it, like, sort of plays out in your life on a certain level, right? Have you ever been in jail or any of that kind of thing yourself? Yeah, yes, I have. For what? I got arrested when I was 14.

First, all, the deadly weapon. What was the weapon? Like, was it like a, you know... A knife. And you were trying to kill somebody. Like, what was the deal? What happened? I wasn't even trying to kill anybody.

I was just trying to exert my dominance. Mm-hmm. In a fight with another guy? Yeah. Was it over a girl? Really a kid. I mean, I was a kid. Yeah.

Why were you carrying a knife around just for like for protection to be badass? Well, I lived in, I lived in L.A. and I was getting jumped all the time. You were living in the bad area. So you were right. So it was like sort of, you were in survival mode. You were put in a pretty, I mean, listen, I'm sure a lot of people can understand if you're raised in that kind of, you know, a neighborhood. You start to be exposed to things way before you probably. probably should be, you know, right?

And you had to be in survival mode at a very young age and sort of learn how to take care of yourself. So that's what you were doing carrying in life, right? I remember the first time, the first, I moved, okay, so I was born in Utah, we moved to L.A. Mm-hmm. We moved to ultimate prison or die in L.A. Right. Because I was, because I was, I was doing bad shit. Mm-hmm.

And really, Kathy, I mean, it was just like, I wasn't, I wasn't trying to be, bad. It's just when you're in a bad environment, the only way to not become a victim. That's the love that you think that I am a victim in my relationship. Yeah, we'll get to that. I will bring

it back to all that. Don't worry about that. I'm honest. You have to be, you have to be a predator. You have to kind of stifle your conscience. Listen, I understand that. I do understand that, though I wasn't raised that way. I do believe in oppression, and I

do believe, you know, when you're so powerless and you're in an environment where you're, you're pretty much powerless or you're, you know, you have a lot of people around you that are coming after you. You have to sort of go sometimes one way in a certain direction that, you know, probably isn't considered right. But it's understandable if you really think about it. You know what I mean in the position that you're in. Like, I understand. You know, I don't know. I've never been so oppressed in my life. But I understand why a lot of people that are oppressed wind up becoming criminals and stuff because when that's put on you so much, how do you expect these people not to go down the path of sort of taking the law into their

own hand when they have no say in fucking anything? You know what I mean? And so how do you, it's the same thing with people in your position. You know, you put a young kid in a sort of a badass neighborhood where, you know, like you say, you're being jumped or shit could be happened to at all time and say, oh, don't carry a knife or, you know, and just be a victim, right? And walk around helpless all the time. Like you sort of just, it's survival.

You're a human being. So I could understand it in a way. So I could understand it. I believe when you take things out of context, like you could sit there and judge a lot of people. But when you do it within context and you really get some, let someone really explain sort of why they did what they did. A lot of times I could completely understand it. And it doesn't make you a terrible person. No, you made poor choices.

But you were a child. You know, 14 years old is very young. You didn't get dealt a good hand of cards. So you didn't have many choices and you chose the wrong one. But like, listen, we all sort of did. I'm sure you paid the consequences to all the shit that you did when you were younger. That's what really winds up happening. That's why you make a choice to be a good person or a bad person when you get a little older.

That happened to me. I ruined my life through my own choices by being rebellious because of shit that happened to me. And then at a certain point, I realize like if I don't want to keep digging myself out of fucking deep holes, I got to choose to do the right thing. You know, and when you get older, you realize you have those choices more and more if you create that sense of, you know, if you get out of that oppressed place where you are. So I'm assuming you paid the consequences for a lot of that shit that you did. Yes, good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgment. Right, exactly.

I think you said that in one of your emails to me. Right. So, you know, you did a lot of bad things. You wound up in jail for the first. So I'm assuming you were in jail a couple times? I've been in jail three times. Right. I love how you, I love how every time I ask a question that I think makes you kind of uncomfortable

with the jail questions, you go, it's like a tell of uncomfortable. It's a tell, right? Yeah, it's a total tell. It's like when someone touches their nose. Like, I'm like a fucking, I can work for the CIA. It's like those little things that, you know, I know I'm sort of making you say something you don't really want to, but whatever. No one really knows who you are.

And I think on some level, sometimes it's kind of cathartic to let shit out. and just tell who you are and tell the real story, you know, and be okay with every part of who you are. Do you know what I mean? Because I think what most people are always doing is sort of rewriting history and pretending that they're better than they are, but deep down inside they know exactly who they are. And that does you a disservice.

If you're sort of honest with who you are and you explain yourself, I think you could feel better about that for all your flaws, you know. So you were in jail three times. The first time it was for, you know, assault with a deadly weapon. What were the other two times for? I went to, once with public intoxication and once was Grant S. Otto. I used to steal cars.

You used to steal cars? Someone stole my car, you fucking asshole. Okay, I had my car stolen, you fucking asshole. And you know what those people did that pissed me off more than anything? Because my car was found, okay? They changed all of my radio station and they got pretzel salt all over the back of the season of my car. Okay? And that's what really irritated me.

Right, it's a violation. Yeah, they violated my good music with their bad music, okay? I was really pissed off. And they were... I don't know if you did... It's so funny. I don't know if you did that shit to people's car, but... Well, you know what?

I'm going to steal someone's car. You know what I did? I moved the mirrors. I changed the mirrors. Oh, even worse. Even worse. So rude. The nerve of you.

I got my car back because they were like dealing drugs. They also left a couple like, you know, sort of gloves and some needles in my car. I wasn't so much concerned about that. But the pretzel salt and the bad music really pissed me up. So, okay, so you stole cars and all that stuff and you went, how long was the longest you were ever in jail? Oh, probably three months. Really? I did most of the shit when I was a juvenile.

So they really could. You were in juvie jail. Right. What is juvie jail like? Are you, like, locked in a room? Actually, well, okay, I went to adult jail once. and I went to juvie jail twice. Was adult jail way worse?

I'm assuming adult jail was the real deal jail, and juvie jail is not so hardcore? I went to adult jail on my public intoxication charge because I didn't have an ID. But I mean, I'm 15 years old. I'm 6 foot 2. I mean, I'm built like a fucking linebacker. Right?

I'm a big dude. And I was so fucked up that they couldn't, they just took me to adult jail because they just assumed I was an adult. Right. But for the three months that you were in, it was juvie jail, right? Yeah. And what was juvie jail like? Like, are you really, like, locked in a room in juvie jail?

Or is it more like, you know, a big room with, like, beds and stuff? Like, what is the deal there? You know what it's like, it's like high school? Mm-hmm. That's what it was. It was high school. that you just didn't get a home from. Right.

It was like there was no three o'clock bell and you got to leave. Six o'clock bell, but you just went to a cell instead of home. So I'm a claustrophobic. That's why I get obsessed with the questions about like, were you locked in a room? Like, I would never do anything bad because I could never go to jail because I could never be locked in a room. I would flip out, you know. So, but were you, so you were locked in a room at the end of the day, even in Juvie, Joe? Honestly, in high school.

Yeah, well, listen, I'm sure that's how a lot of people that, like, you know, these poor criminals that grow up in these really oppressed areas are, you know, feel. And, you know, I, and this is a little bit off topic, but it's kind of like the same thing. And I read this one article. And I always have this sort of saying that I say to people, like, don't put up pictures in your jail cell. And I get that saying from this article that I read about this, the famous Washington Post writer guy. He was this guy who grew up in a very tough neighborhood and he went down the wrong path and he wound up in jail. And he became a success story because he did his time in jail and he got out and he became, like I said,

writer for the Washington Post, which is huge, you know, and he was being interviewed, and they said to him, like, why do you think that you, you know, went to jail and got out where so many other people like go to jail? And then they just become like sort of, you know, repeat offenders and they keep coming back to jail. And he said, you know, because I never put pictures up in my jail cell. He said, what happens to people that they go in jail? Like, they almost become safe in there and they make their environment good and they put up pictures and they get a TV and they're comfortable there. And it's easier for them there. I never did that. So I made, I never made jail like a safe place for me to be you know he's like I never put up pictures in my jail cell and that's like why he never wanted to go back right because it wasn't that safe place to him but that's why a lot of other people do and it makes sense you know when something's not so good in your life you don't want to make it comfortable you know like I've had friends that I've had bartending jobs and they're like I hate my bartending job I'm like well that's good don't fucking put up pictures there because you don't want to stay a bartender when you're 50 right so like it's kind of a little sort of uncomfortableness and a bad situation is good because that's what's eventually

going to propel you out of there and make you never go back, right? So you felt a little safe there, of course, because you were from a scary place. Like, when you have to carry a knife at 14 because you're being jumped at all times, like, that's fucking scary. Yeah, but that's the only thing that, like, I don't really know anything else. When my grandpa got out of prison, the guy from Baltimore, he spent seven years in a federal prison. And when he got out, we were having coffee.

he referred to the time that he spent in the joint as his vacation. Right. Yeah, right. He didn't have to do anything. He didn't have to hustle anymore. Right. He's being taken care of. Totally.

Yeah, life is difficult. That happens to, like, I saw this one interesting thing about guys involved in, like, professional sports. Like, a lot of them go out when it's, like, their time to retire, they become very wayward because when they're on this team, everything is sort of done for them. You know, it's like this all. or universe. It's why people can't even get out of college and get jobs a lot of times or people become perpetual high school, you know, college people because they just want everything sort of done for them,

right? When you go out to real life and you graduate college or whatever if you do your life that way, it's like now it's a free for all. You make your life. You know what I mean? You have to figure out what to do. And a lot of people don't know how to do that. So any kind of, you know, place where you could go that it's sort of put on you and you're told what to do, a lot of people buy into that because it's, it is easier in a way. But it's bullshit because I don't think life is about taking the easy way. I think life is about taking the harder way and figuring out the harder thing to do because that is most of the time a lot of the right way.

Exactly. Yeah, absolutely. That's how we develop as a human being. Exactly. So you get out of jail finally. When do you go straight? Because I'm figuring you're more straight now, right? Because you, on the last call you told me you had this really good job, you know?

I know you're not straight in your sex life and your religious and we'll get back to that. But when do you sort of go straight? And start straight. Yeah. What do you mean? I'm totally straight. I'm totally straight. I'm not fucking around anymore.

Okay. But what I mean is like... I've been monogamous for two years. Okay, great. But what I mean is when did you go straight in your sort of life and get a job and clean your act up and like at what age were you when you decided to sort of do the right thing as opposed to. You remember that last, you remember that on my last call when I told you that I moved from L.A. to Utah and I met a girl.

Mm-hmm. She straightened me out. Okay. How old were you then again? You were young. You were like 23? 17, 16, 17. Okay, cool.

I mean, that's young in most people's life, but in your life you had already lived a lot. So at 16, you were like, you know, been there, done that kind of thing. Well, I mean, I was still stealing cars. That was, I mean, I was in trouble still. You see, what happened was I learned how to commit crimes. Mm-hmm. that in L.A. that Utah

had never even seen. They had no concept of just full frontal criminal assault. Right, right. They were more shielded from that. They were shielded from that because it wasn't so bad.

They were so naive. When I came here from L.A., you could just rob people blind here. I actually saw, like, this is in the 90s. but like I would go into 7-Elevens or convenience stores and I would see pictures of like drawings of me on on the door thing like

if you used to be this person called me and they wouldn't even notice you right there well I was very identifiable because I was in you know I mean when I was in L.A. I was I didn't want to be a gangbanger I didn't want to be I didn't want to wear a uniform wore the punk rock uniform. I had a mohawk and like a nose ring. All sorts of stupid piercings and anarchy symbols all over me.

Like band fucking patches and shit. So, I mean, you could pick me out. Like I was the dude with a, I had an earring hanging out of my nose that had a grenade. It was like a hammering. So funny how like, it's so try to be when we like when I think back to the stuff that I did when I was younger and I was very bad when I was like, but not like as bad as you, but as bad as I could have been. I just think, oh my God, I was like to try to be. What do you mean not as bad as me? Well, no, I mean, I wasn't in my, like, I dare you.

No, no, no. What I mean is I never wound up in jail or pulled a knife, but, you know, I also didn't have your same background, you know, for me. Yeah, but you probably broke a bunch of hearts. I was stealing cars while you were really making men mostly probably cry. I was very ridiculous with guys, but no, my thing was I was very against authority. I got thrown out of three high schools. like I really took my sort of education.

I was always like super smart and always put in really great classes, but I just like took my education. I was like, go fuck yourself and like, didn't really care. And I, and I rebelled, I was very rebellious.

And then I became very promiscuous. That's sort of how I acted out. But I didn't do like things against the law. So I never, because I told you had claustophobia. Like I couldn't, you know, I couldn't go to jail or be locked out by that would flip me out.

I had claustophobia from very early on. I remember having that. So that was my biggest fear. So I was, that's as bad as I got. It's just a different kind of bad, whatever, you know. But so you get eventually straight in that, that girl sort of, you're still stealing when you got to, you were still stealing cars when you got to Utah.

You're saying when you saw those people, those pictures of yourself in 7-Eleven, that was in Utah, right? That followed you there? Yeah, yeah. And then that girl got you straight because did you, like, tell her, hey, babe, like, let's go steal a car one night. Like, did she figure out what you were doing, or did you tell her? I mean, she knew what I was doing. And she knew who I was hanging out with. Mm-hmm.

Like, I... The thing is, okay, something else that... This probably has something to do with it. My mom's 15 years old when she has me. Mm-hmm. I never spent more than two grades in the same school. I was constantly trying to earn...

Like, I was always the new kid. Right, right, right. Mm-hmm. That's tough. You know, so... Yeah. So what happens in that situation is that... you're trying to impress people all the time.

And when you're trying to impress people, you're doing things that you know are stupid. You do them anyway, just because you want to be accepted more than anything. Right. And you know, you might not have a long time. So you just, that's the, that's the quick way to get accepted, right?

Right. That's interesting. I would never. Yeah. It might not even just be the quick way, but it's the only way I could figure out how to when I was that young. Right. That's interesting.

I mean, because I didn't have that experience, but I bet you a lot of people that moved a lot in their life would totally relate to what you just said, which is like, oh, you feel bad for that person. You know, you don't know that that young kid that's being moved around is having these sort of feelings of needing to be accepted and then going to, you know, sort of selling himself out to do it, you know? Yeah, well, it speaks to the whole idea of not putting up pictures in your cell. not getting too comfortable, not setting up a home base anywhere.

It never felt like I had a home. Well, that's even worse than what I was saying. My way is like it's a good thing not to set up. For you, you didn't even have that time. You never had the time to sort of put pictures up in any place, even in a place that was good, because you were constantly moving and you had no choice in that matter because you were really young.

And I think it's very scary. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, if I have commitment, Dolby, if I have commitment issues, it's because every time when I was a kid that I made a best friend, I knew it was just a matter of a grade that I was going to have to say goodbye and make a new friend and start over. Right.

But I remember, you know, I think that you value your friendships. I remember in our first call, you talked about a guy that you were friends with, the guy who you fucked his girl. Like you said, like, that was like your really good friend. And you spoke very highly of him and how important his friendship was to you. And I'm assuming now that's because of you didn't get to sort of hold on to your friends. but it was meaningful for you. And I think as far as you could be a lot more commitment-phobic

and a lot more colder than you really are. I think you do have a sense of like really valuing people in your life and creating deep relationships that last in whatever way you can. And you do do that to the best of your abilities because you have had long-term relationships with women. You've had long-term friendships with men. And that's good considering your past because some people can't do that after going through what you went through.

So that's a good thing that you've done for yourself. you know what you know what why why psychedelic drugs psychedelics stop please I don't think so no I think that that no I don't think it's drugs dude I think it just I think it's a part I think that's a part of your character I think we're all a mix and we were born with certain personality traits and stuff and like who we really are deep down in soul that's like deep down inside I said soul that's like a Freudian slip like who we really are as a person and then that gets

messed up because of stuff that's put on but It's who we always are. I think you're just like a lover, not a hater, and that's what it is. I don't think it's drugs that made you that way. I really don't. I think that's just a part of who you are. You like closeness and you want it, and you're attached to that human being part of you. And I think every human being part, human being has that need and that desire.

Some people, though, pull those plugs out because of bad shit that happens to them, and they don't know how to plug back in. You never pull that plug because you stay true to who you are no matter what happened. So I don't buy that psychedelic drugs did that shit to you. It's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Well, it could be a combination between my girlfriend and my girlfriend was, at that time, was the person who I was doing psychedelics with. Yeah, but it was also who you are as a person, just who you are, the strength in you,

the good part of you, you know, the good character parts of you that made you sort of made it important to foster good relationships in your life and keep them. That's something that you could say about yourself. It's not about anybody else. I don't think it than you. Because you can't sort of do anything for someone unless they want to do it for yourself. I've tried to, like, I have a saying, like, if you lead a horse to order and it doesn't drink, fucking shoot it, okay?

Because I can't tell you how many people I've tried to help or something, but they just choose not to. You know, and that's just, because it's ultimately it's someone's choice. So you really help yourself, sort of better yourself to be as good as you are now, considering your background. And that's, that's a kudos to you for you. Not drugs, not your girlfriend, whatever. But, you know, but why do you, okay? I agree with you. I agree with you to the extent that it was me that chose to do psychedelic.

This is like that try to be 14-year-old shit, okay? I'm sorry, I still don't buy psychedelic drugs made you become like a person that valued relationships in your life and that thing. Like, how do you put that together? to me it's a lot more because you never had that growing up that you really appreciate that. You could have gone two ways. You could have gone to the point where, oh my God, my friends were always taken away from me, so I'm never going to get close to anyone. Or you could go the other way, which is, oh, my God, everyone was taken away from me.

So I'm going to hold on to people as much as I can when I find them. You chose the opposite way, which I think is the better way because that is the loving way. And that is what we all need as human being. So, you know, the drugs made you do that? The drugs made you do that? Yes. I don't know if you remember, but on my last call that I had with you, I told you I ate way too much acid. So what does that have to do with fostering good relationships in your life and keeping, like, you know, being able to commit to certain people? Well, because when you think you're, when you really look death in the face, your priorities become completely about relationships.

Yeah, but I think that what you don't understand is that you were just reliving your childhood when you were doing those drugs. You face death when you were early on before you even got into drugs. Okay, so I just think the drugs were just a reliving of that and a re-facing it, and you were torturing yourself and recreating those things because that's what we do. We sort of always want to go back to whatever we're comfortable in, even if it's like a fucking horrible situation, we go back to that and we put ourselves in that position to rework it out. When I was looking at death, I was looking, I was self-destructive. I hated myself.

But you worked it out. Right, okay. So what I'm saying is like when I was on way too much acid, I realized that everything is connected and I was going to die anyway and I didn't need to, you know, I didn't need to aid and assist in my self-destruction. So what I realized is that every moment is an opportunity to experience something new and to grow and to give. Right, totally. And we are all one thing. We're all one being. Okay.

Totally. I believe that. I mean, I came to those conclusions early on in my badass sort of life where I was going wayward myself. I wouldn't say through drugs or alcohol, even though I did those things. So maybe you needed acid to do that. But I think people could come to those realizations on their own. And it's not like I'm not sitting here and I'm like anti-drugs and like you can't do acid. I just don't think that they're like, you know, I don't know.

Maybe you want to put your realization. I agree with it. They're not, it's not necessary. It's just, exactly. It's just the circumstance where I came to that conclusion. Well,

thank God for acid then, because it definitely got you straight. Straighter than you were. It really did. You know, and honestly, there's a match, I can I remember what it stands for,

a multidisciplinary association of psychedelic study. I believe that's what the acronym stands for. They're finding out that, psilocybin, mushrooms, jealousy, the M-D-M-A, which is the major compound in excessy. Yeah.

It's really actually helping people get over post-traumatic stress disorder. And I really feel like I order, and maybe I still do, but hallucinogenic. Psychedelics really help me because it kind of dissolved my ego. I don't take myself so seriously anymore. That's why I can fuck a cripple chick. Right. A slightly cop and admit to everything that I do is because I don't take myself from

serious way anymore because I know I'm going to die. Right. But like we just both agree. Like a people could come to that realization without that kind of stuff through other forms other than that. I don't know. I was too paranoid to do any kind of psychedelic drugs because I'm afraid of my brain. Okay. Like it's a little fucking scary regularly that I just could never go to those places.

I think that's my fear, you know. But I've done a lot of like therapy. and for me, music, like there's just been different things in my life that I was able to tap into that part of myself and that bigger belief in everything through other forms of things, you know, whether, and I don't know what that is, like, you know, but it wasn't psychedelic drugs, but that for you, that's the way you got there. And I guess that's like some, it does help certain people. For me, I could have never done that. It would have, I would have wound up in the emergency room. It would have freaked me out too much. And there's two trains, like, there's different people

thing, there's two sides of that. Like some spiritual people will say the ecstasy like really fucks with your kundalini, that base of your spine and it really messes things up. That's why it opens up that part, but ultimately since it's a drug, it can fuck it up. So there's a lot, there's two ways you could argue that, but I don't really care to get into a whole

thing about drugs because, you know, I'm not like some sort of advocate either way on it, you know? For me, what I want to get to, because it's where we started and now I have a lot more information on your background. It's like, why do you think you've done all these drugs, you've had the epiphany, you're just going to die, you don't take things so

seriously. So you don't really care if your girlfriend leaves you, you'll find somebody else. And that's fine for you to think that on your own. But why do you bring that, like I said, to your girlfriend and say, here, babe, I want you to know this. So listen to this podcast. And, you know, I'm going to tell you straight to your face that, you know, if I found someone else, it wouldn't really matter. How does that work for you? Like, why did you do that, do you think? I had a conversation over about, I mean, I was so, okay, so in my own mind, in my own heart. I know, I love her. I know you said that too.

You said that, right, you said two very conflicting things. Yeah. But, but, okay, so this is how I explained it to her. But what did you, what do you mean you explained to her? Like, when you say that was the hardest thing to do, what was the hardest thing to do? Let her listen to it.

Have that conversation. What conversation? No, no. Just have a conversation to, where I'm explaining to her, what, essentially, I had to define, according to me, what love is. and love to me

and reality loves everything okay if I say what I told her is that I'm in love with her but what is this meaning when after she listened

to the podcast or before she listened to it what do you mean what I'm talking about is why did you let her listen to it to begin with because I think I feel like you brought

a lot of truth out of me even though I lied on your podcast yeah well We'll get to that in a second. Don't think I didn't forget about that shit, okay? As far as like the timeframes go. Yeah.

I mean, really, it's like I told you in that email. Really, what, what, the reason why I wanted her to listen to it is because her and I needed to have a conversation. And I didn't know really how to bring it up. Like, she comes home from work. I come home from work. We have our routines. We make dinner.

She watches Game of Thrones, this music or pain or do whatever I do. And then I go to bed. Like, we have our, we have, we have, we, we, we have. have a routine just like every other couple does. Having this, having her listen to that podcast was a way for, it was a way for me to force a conversation that needed to be had. And what conversation needed to be had? Station of the re-of-monogamy, really.

Right. And that, I forgot about that. Right. That was your thing. You were feeling in your life that you knew at a certain point, you were going to go and need to let your freak bag fly because you doubt totally have one even while you're with this woman and you wanted to do it without ruining the relationship though you had been monogamous for the first time with her for two years right but you were starting to feel that itch that like that part

of your personality the part that's like sort of very open and wants to screw a lot of people was still around like on the one hand you're telling me that I'm sloppy but on the other hand I don't want to be I don't want to be a good liar I want her I want her to accept me absolutely, you know, for who I am. Right. And that covers that podcast station to where we had to, we had to complain with each other. Like, I had, she knew that I was lying about the time frame.

And the time, the lying was about the girl with the panties. You had a girl, in case people didn't listen to your part one. I'm sure they'll listen to it now if they haven't. In the part one, you sort of explained a story about an older woman, a married woman, who would sell you her panties on Craigslist, and then you, and she would like, because you paid a lot for those panties as far as I was concerned. I was like, well, she just sent them to you in the mail,

and you're like, no, she showed up at my house and then took them, or she showed up in a car, took them off and gave them to you. And then she started making you porn because you paid her a little bit more for that, right? And so that girl was during this relationship, even though you said you were monogamous in this relationship, right? Yeah, there was, yeah. There was some overlap there. that's just a yes or no question.

So yes. Well, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you did that during your relationship. So that's where you sort of cheated. And she found out about that?

She had known about that? No, through your podcast, through listening to it, she picked up on that. Okay. Right. Because she knew about that sort of thing. And you said she's smart and she sort of picks up on stuff. And so she put two and two together and was like, you did that while we were together. And this is what I always find.

though interesting. And this is what I do believe is passive aggressive with certain people. And I don't get it. And I think there's a little selfishness that goes in. And maybe you could explain to me your side of things of why you think this is right. When people cheat or they do things behind somebody's back, okay, I don't know if it's already happened and it's in the past and it's not something that you're doing. I don't know what the benefit is from letting somebody else know. Like I get that you wanted to have the conversation with your girl and say to her, hey, listen, babe, like I, I, you know me. She was your friend for 10 years, so she knows about all of your ways. She knows you've been with a guy.

She knows you're not really monogamous. You know, why you can't say to her, listen, I'm starting to get that feeling. I'm still very open sexually, and I'm wondering, and I don't want to cheat on you. I'm wondering if we could go do swing or stuff or whatever together and just bring that into a relationship. So I don't have to do it behind your back. Why can't you have that conversation without telling her, hey, by the way, I got, you know, panties from a married chick in a car while I was dating you. and then she sent me porn where she was like abusing me. You know, like, why does she have to know that?

Why do you have to tell her that to get to the conversation? Like, I feel like you could have had that conversation with her without her being hurt by the fact that you did this behind her back. I don't think she needed that. That's, see, this is the thing, Debbie. She, she, she, what I wanted for her to get out of it is not what she got. Yeah, but that's where I don't understand your, mentality and that's what I'm trying to get at like because there was a lot besides the fact that she was

going to you know your girl's smart right and she's going to figure out the panty thing right and figure out the timeline not only that you did say on the podcast specifically and I remember this that you said specifically like you kind of don't care as much as you love her you wouldn't care if she left because at the end of the day you always know there's somebody else you know so there was a couple things that were pretty harsh for her to find out and because you wanted to have this conversation and that would allow you to like sort of have a more open relationship. You said you were okay with her finding out those other things, which to me are like, you know, and then are like, oh, she's acting weird after she listened to the podcast.

Well, yeah, duh, because of those other things that you said. You had to have known that she was going to hear that stuff too. Well, yeah. Getting back to my past, my childhood, I expect to be abandoned. I expect to be abandoned. Right. That's where I believe it's sabotaged. That's what I'm getting at.

I believe there's something underneath that that you try to say that I let her listen to it because of this conversation. But I don't believe that that really is what it is. You know, maybe you were feeling like something. It was like pushing someone away. Sometimes people that have abandonment issues subconsciously push people away through sabotage by doing what they do. Like you're pretty good at relationships considering.

Okay. I'll give you that. And you have been good with this girl for two years. And I do believe that you really love. love her and what all this bullshit that you do isn't about not loving her and it isn't about your feelings for her it's more about your shit with yourself you know and that's like a little bit of sabotage because to me to hand that information over to her was just retarded and stupid and bound to get to do the opposite of what you wanted that's what I told you at the very beginning

of this I told you I'm an idiot right but you got to be smarter than that like I mean like you know I mean like I don't buy that you're that much of an idiot you seem like you're a pretty smart guy so I don't believe you're that much of an idiot or is it laziness like what is it about your personality that says hey I'm gonna like to get what I want I'm gonna hurt this person and let them know some bad stuff just so that you know because I don't feel like you know have like having the conversation with or by myself are you looking for drama it's interesting that's interesting because that's exactly to the point of it what you just said. Like, I, I really, you know what I want? I want her happy and it's supposed to appreciate it

and respected and love that she possibly can be in this life because she's got this one life to do that. And if it's not, if it's, if it's not me, if it's not me that can, that can make her feel that way, then she should put somebody else. But I don't know. And I should too. Right, but what does that have to do with what you said on the podcast? If you don't know. If you don't know. everything about me and you accept or reject me, then your exception or rejection is invalid to me because you're not really making those decisions. You're not making those judgment with full information. You're not you don't know. I'm sorry, but I know that's bullshit because like honestly this girl knew everything about you that to throw, she

knew that you blew her gay roommate. Didn't she know that thing? She didn't know everything. I was lying. I lied through her. Did you also lie to me on that podcast? Because you told me in the podcast that this was a girl that knew that you had sex with a guy. She knew all of your history. She was with you. She was your friend for 10 years. So she knew mostly everything about you, right?

Right. So this is what I believe. Okay. I just don't believe that if someone knows that you blew a guy or you weren't monongous with all of your girls or anything, that throwing a panty buying session into the mix is going to change anything. That's still who you are. She still knows you for who you. are. I don't think that she needed to know that to accept you more. I think that there's something weird about sort of

throwing that on to the person that you're in love with. And it's about sort of trying to push them away as opposed to what you say it was about of like her being accepted and loved. I don't know. You just went on some weird tangent about like I believe she should be accepted and loved in life as much as possible. And so that's why you made her listen to your podcast and let her know that you could leave her at any time because you could find somebody else. And that you kind of cheated on her while you were with her and was doing that. And then, and on top of it, you wanted her to hear it. Like, you, like, smudged her face in it a little bit. I just feel like that's a little harsh in a way that you don't, and you spin it in a way that makes you seem like you're doing the right thing. But I don't think it's the right thing. I don't think it was the right thing for your relationship. Not really.

I think the right. Yeah. She would agree with you. She would agree with you on her present. Of course she would. I could put myself in her position and understand how that felt like. I'm looking at this as an objective person, but I'm also looking at as a woman. You know, I can understand what you can do.

And I know guys like you. I think that there's a selfishness in that. And you doing that that speaks to selfishness, that speaks to, you know, laziness. But it also speaks even deeper to like a commitment issue and a sabotage mentality by somebody that has the biggest fear of abandonment. Maybe you realize all that stuff about yourself and you were like, oh, my God, I'm like this terrible person. And she's going to leave me because I have to let her listen and make sure she accepts me. You know, it just is like this crazy thing and it's sabotaged, you know, and then you made her listen to it. And then she acted fucking weird.

And you could be ruining what is a great relationship. And I think you, you know, you can have your cake and eat it too if you want. You can be who you are and be loved. Everyone deserves that. Everybody, you know, you can be that person who's open and has an open relationship with somebody and does that without. sort of making that person feel like they are disposable and also that you're doing stuff behind their back. Because once you kill the trust in a relationship,

you're kind of fucked. You don't want to do that. I don't think she needed to know about the panty thing. I really don't. I don't. It doesn't change who you are. She knew who you are. She knew that you have those sort of interest in that kind of stuff.

You could have said to her, hey, babe, let's like it's in a routine. And like, let's sort of like try something new to spice things. up. You could have done it in a lot of different ways and make her listen to that podcast, or you could have kept that shit out of the podcast and let her listen to it in a different way. You know, that's it. Well, I couldn't, I couldn't, I wanted, honestly,

I wanted to keep it out of the podcast, but I put it in the email and you brought it up, and I could, I tried to avoid it if you remember. I don't. No, I didn't notice that. You brought it up, and I tried to digress into back into the cuckold. Oh, right, and I tried to put

it within, kind of, I, I, I, I, I, I love, Judge Judy, she's like, it's like my favorite show. I just laugh out loud when I watch a show. I love her. And I'm always like, oh, I judge Judy people. Like, I like to back people into corners and ask them questions. And that's how you get the real truth because sometimes people like to spin things.

So, yeah, you're not going to get away with that. Because you told me about it and the thing. So I wanted to cover everything because it was like good shit, you know. But yeah, you shouldn't. That should have been like, okay, you know, because that's in there. I can't let her listen. It was stupid of you. That's it.

Stupid of me. Yes, it was. ingenious of me because this is why. Okay. It created an environment for us to have a conversation that we needed to have. Okay. And that created an intimacy and it's in a level of trust that is necessary for me to be. Like I told you in the last one, this is the most healthy relationship I've ever had.

Yeah, that's why I don't want you to ruin it. You know what I mean? I don't either. Yeah. Like I don't want you to like ruin it. I want you to keep it and do it the right way. You have this great opportunity. you know, especially because she was your friend before and you had this really great foundation.

You know, that's a great foundation to build a relationship upon. And she's been pretty cool with you. So I just don't want you to ruin that. So, you know, if it brought up the good conversation, as long as she could trust you after that, that's great. Right. Right. And that's really what it was about, you know. It was just about me figuring out ways of conversations with her because she's important to me.

It wasn't because I was trying to put anything in her. No, but why did you, but what did you, so what did you explain about the panty wearing thing? Like, how does she, how does she move, how did she move past that? She just knew. She knew. She knew. She knew, like, I already knew that. Yes, you know, you know, because you're a woman.

Women know everything. Yeah, we can't help it. It's annoying. You can just feel it. You can just smell it from a mile away. Yeah, it sucks. It's like I really wish we were oblivious. There was that thing.

Because there was something that she knew. that I wasn't being forthright with and me divulging that on your podcast and then me having her listen to it, I knew we were going to ultimately eventually have a conversation and we could finally resolve it. And we did. Okay, that's good then. Okay, so that is good then. Okay, so I just went on a tangent for no reason.

I'm wrong. You're right. But what about the part where she hears that you're like basically like you could always just find somebody else and blah, well, was she upset about that? Yeah, that's the part that she was upset about. Right. So how did you fix that? How did you clean that up?

Well, that's just true for every relationship. I know that you're a fan of Louis C. Louis C.A. Love him. A successful, the best case scenario, one of you is going to die. Right. There's no getting out of having. your heartbroken.

Right. You're going to have your heartbroken. Exactly. No, I really believe a fear of commitment is a fear of like an ending. And if you could get to the point in your life where you really realize like you will break up but you will be okay, then, you know, you're good to go because like I think that's what I always feared as a fear of commitment person. I think what I always feared is like sort of that rug being pulled out from under me and

not thinking I would ever be able to handle that. So I just never fell in love to begin with until it happened to me and I realized not Not only was I okay, like I was better than okay. I worked through things pretty quickly in life and I'll be okay. So it just makes me feel that much more safe to sort of just fall and fall hard for somebody and know that when it does go south, whether they die or like Louis C cases or something else happens, that, you know, I'll be heartbroken, but I'll be able to deal with that. Do you know who Mahondis Gandhi is? No. You know Gandhi is.

Oh, Gandhi. I'm sorry. I didn't hear you. Yeah. I'm sorry. Sorry. Yes, I'm sorry, for some reason. Yeah, I know who got.

I'm sorry. I'm fighting against the British imperialism. He once said something. He said something to me that it stuck with me. So for my whole life, he said that love is the parochic. A coward is incapable of exhibiting love. Love is the choice that you make. Totally.

To be courageous. That's where courage comes from. It's the most ballsy thing you could do, because it's the scariest thing. you could do. It defies all logic. Yeah. It defies all logic. You can't use your brain to do it. You're not in control. It really is the scariest thing. I'm a type of person that I believe, like, whatever I fear, I do it. You know, I'm afraid of elevators and I live in New York. So that just shows you,

like for me, if I'm afraid of something, I want to do it all the time. You know, and it doesn't even take away my fear. I still don't like elevators, but I force myself to go in them on a daily basis all the time because I believe when you give in to fear and you stay away from it, it only makes it strong. younger, you know, and sometimes facing your fear won't make it go away totally, but it will keep it as as least powerful as it could be in your life, you know, so I like to face all my fears, but recently after doing the baby thing and failing so many times and getting very comfortable with failure, it made me realize, you know, and doing medical things was a big fear for me, and I did all

of that shit and then saw I'm doing the baby thing. And maybe we realized that my fear of commitment was the next thing I needed to sort of face. And that was a fear, and that was a fear of like failure too and fear of the ending and not being able to deal with that and me and me realizing that I could and that's what I have to conquer next in my life because that is the ballsier way to go that you know not fake I have to face that fear like I face everything else just you know do it and know that I'll be okay and I could it and it'll be okay that's what makes life fun totally I believe that absolutely you mean facing your fears or falling in love or both both totally It's the same thing.

Yeah. You know, when I was talking to my girlfriend about what love is, it's like, this is what I said. I'm already in love. Mm-hmm. I'm in love. I'm just in love with you. You're just with me in love. Right.

And you guys are in love together for as long as you choose to be. Right. Mm-hmm. We're in love with each other, but we're both in love separately, in love with life together. Mm-hmm. Right. great as long as she's in love with love with love and I'm right for as long as you guys decide to do that with each other you know I think what people are afraid of is like that that that maybe

doesn't last forever and how do you feel when that person leaves and all that stuff you know but yeah I think that that is what life is about I think it's very important to face your fears and to do and I think you do because you have fallen in love more so than I have like I've never been a longer relationship than like two years that like I said that's not my list of to-do. Like, that's the next fear I conquer because I don't know that I really, I'm ready to do it. I haven't really done it. And I think it's

important. I think that's what life's about. It's taking those fears, whatever you're most afraid of... Really? Oh my God, I think you should fuck a black guy. No, I'll call up. Black guy in funny. Okay. Okay. That would be fun because

that would be phasing my fears. I really think I'm, I mean, I'm joking, but I really think that's why guys like watching their girlfriend. or why to get fucked by big giant black dude so much is because it's scary you don't think that they have like it's some sort of underlying gay tendency like maybe that i don't know oh man every guy i would say 90% of men have underlying gay tendency right so yeah i don't know what that is all about i don't want to get too deep into it i want to wrap up this call in an interesting way i wanted to wrap it up with gondy because that was good even though i didn't know what the fuck you said at first but yeah that was that was was good. I mean, I'm glad you didn't

sabotage your relationship totally. I think you could have, and you were close, be a little smarter in the future. Are you going to let her listen to this podcast? I don't know. Are you going to let her listen to this one? You know, I'm going to let her do whatever she wants to do. Okay, but is she, are you going to tell her? Even if that's a big black cock.

Even if she says, I want to do a big black cock, I'm going to say, go. No, okay, now I know you're definitely going to let her listen to it because you want her to fuck of a guy with the big black cock. And this is going to be your way of having that conversation. I encouraged her to listen to the last one. I'm not going to encourage, I'm not even going to tell her that I even had another conversation.

She should already be listening to all of your podcasts. Oh, because you're a fan and you think they're great. That's why. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, that's why. Right, that's cool. I think everybody should listen to your podcast.

Oh, that's nice of you to say. But the thing is, is like, I can't go around telling people to listen to it because they're going to hear me and they're going to go, oh, my God, I didn't know that about you. I know. That's the whole problem. And then they'll judge me. Listen, I can't even tell anyone. That's the problem of being anonymous. Yeah, most people, I'm anonymous too.

Most people don't know what I do or I have my podcast because I feel like if people knew when they didn't, you know, because people are lazy, right? To have them actually press play and really listen is hard to make, so if they just went to the podcast titles and look, they'd be like, oh, my God, Kathy's doing some weird sex show and she's this way or that way. You know, they would totally judge me. So I don't tell most people they don't even know because I can. I can't because...

I think you're secretly famous. Really? Secretly. That's good. Infamous. You know what? When I was younger, I was remember exactly where I was, I was on this bus, and I was like, I was really bad in school, and I was in this Catholic high school. I was a freshman, and these two really tough senior girls walked up to me on the bus, and they're like, so you're the infamous, Kathy, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, what does that mean?

I didn't even know with the word infamous man. And it was because I think that's really what I am infamous. I was like known, but not known, you know? I'm like, what the fuck do they mean? It's because my name was on the loudspeaker every day because I was in trouble every single day. And everybody knew who I was without me even really fucking realizing it. But I have a good amount of listeners and I love that. And I love to talk to people and do my thing.

And other people like listening to it. I get emails from people all the time and they enjoy it. And it's like it's, you know, I think it's great what I do. I love doing it. I love that people like the people that call in really get something out of it. You know, for me, the reason why I started is because I like to have these conversations all the time. And I think I really backed you into tough corners on the call. time but I feel like you were okay with that and that's why I did it to you because we had had a lot of

emails back and forth and stuff but you know people get sick of that shit you know so my friends don't want to hear that shit all the time so I was like you know this is like a good way for me to let go of that part of my personality without losing friends do know what I mean because people have to really want advice and want the layers pulled back and everything sometimes I have a tendency to do that to people when they're not ready and they don't fucking want it and it's so irritating and And so this way I get to do that with people that actually want it and appreciate it and are looking for it. And then I feel good because it's a part of who I am. And then I could give my friends a break.

Do you know what I'm saying? That's the way it goes. That's why I do it. So this is like the forum for me to do it. And I'm glad that other people enjoy listening to it. People love to hear about people's lives. And it's like, you know, I'm definitely always grateful for people that call in because, you know, they're really honest about who they are. And what you're talking about on this podcast really helps other people.

I think that there's different things that people could relate to. And I think it's really important and it really makes people feel better when they realize that other people, there's other people like them out there. I completely agree. That's why I love your show. I love what you do. Yeah. There was a friend recently that was out of work.

And, no, yeah, he's out of work. And he read some article about other people that were. And he was this really successful guy. And he's like, you know, it's really made me feel better. It was the most important thing for me to realize. And I believe in that as far as, because we were talking about groups and how I hate groups. but he's like, but when you're in a group and there's other people and you can relate to them, it makes you feel better because we all think we're like these secret weirdos and we're like

the only person. And it's sort of egotistical to think, right? Like, and then you really realize you're like a lot of other people. And then there is comfort in that, you know? It's a better thing to realize you're like everybody else than to live in like some egotistical place where you think you're the only person and you're so fucking weird, you know? You're not really. None of us really are.

So it's good that my callers put that stuff out there because other people hear it and they relate. and I think that they feel better about themselves because of it, and that's great. And I just get to hear interesting stuff. I get bored really easy in life. I love to hear these kind of things. I love hearing about real people stuff. I think people put themselves out there as such bullshit walking around. It's such surface bullshit.

I like real people. I like flaws. I like these stories because to me they're very real. And, you know, that I have to keep people anonymous and I do keep them very anonymous is the only way I get these real things because people are judgmental. and it's scary to put yourself out there for real. You know, and that's fine because I don't think that people need to know exactly who you are. Because who are you?

You're everybody. You're a lot of fucking people, you know, and that's what's great. So thanks for calling in again. I'm going to wrap it up because we're already at one hour and 20 minutes. I'd like to keep my podcast only at an hour. But we'll have you call back. I know that. After you do that big black cock thing.

Or you sabotage your relationship like an asshole. I don't know what you do next, but there's more there. There's more there. And it was great to talk to you because you let me, like I said, I think I was a little harsh to you on this call, but like it was fun. And I think that you were ready for it and you were okay with it, right? I can take it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I could take it.

I've been through worse, man. No, but I think you want it. I think you like it. I think that it was like what you're ready for in a certain way. And I think that's great. Yeah, so I think that's cool. No, it's true, man. I really do appreciate your point of view.

I appreciate your perspective. Yeah, that's great. Always remember my advice is unprofileged. professional. It's like, you know, someone once gave me a review that said, oh, it's like sitting across from your best friend with coffee. And sometimes she's not always right, but whatever, it works. And that's the way that it is. I never want people to think, like, what I say is the end-all be-all. I'm not a therapist. There are a lot of bad therapists out there, but there's some really good ones that really know the right thing to say and what's the fuck to do. But, like, for me, this is just like, you know, having a conversation with a friend. It's just my opinion.

Well, what I think is so great about it is that it is anonymous. So you can be, you can be honest. Totally. Like, can you really sit across from your friend and tell them the truth? Oh yeah, I do all the time. That's why people can't fucking stand me. But I don't really care. Like, that's who I am.

You know, I'm like truth to say. Or one time someone said to me, like, what are you the fucking truth police? And I'm like, yeah, actually I am. That's, I really believe that's one of my God-given talents. I believe that's why I was put here. I'm hated a lot for it. I get a lot of backlash for it. But I think that there's a place for it.

people need that and you know and that's there's all kinds of people and that's something that I was given um as a strength and I do do that to people and some people don't like it but that's okay because that's fine with me you know I'm just I love that your mouth can keep up with your brain I mean that's what I'm most impressed by you talk so fast I know that means you think fast yeah yeah totally that's why it's really hard for me I wrote that stupid book and I'm like it's so hard people don't understand how hard it was for me to write a book and how huge of that was for me because writing is so hard for me because it's so slow compared to how fast my brain goes and it's it is really difficult you know to keep up but yeah that's why talking is the best way

it comes in my head and out my mouth and it's just easier that's why for me being honest is just really easy for me because it just allows everything to sort of come out without a filter but I feel like in my older age I think when I was younger shit came out in a lot worse way I think I'm much better at sort of dishing out the truth in a way that's not hurtful and a lot of most people don't get hurt by my truth because they really understand that it doesn't come from a judgmental place. It just, most of the time I like to tell people the truth because I want to help people.

I really think life is about bettering yourself as a person. And, you know, when my friends are sitting across me and I'm telling them the truth, it's not due to, entertainment purposes. It's not to make them feel uncomfortable. It's to make them be better people because I think when you face the truth, that's like the most powerful thing you could do and that's when you could truly change.

But most people are so petrified of facing the truth of themselves that they rewrite history and they see themselves in a very different way and they don't want to look in the mirror and they never change and that's that's like not doing the right thing in life. I think that that's like breaking the spiritual law. Yeah, definitely you're just dead. You're already dead. You might as well be dead. I mean to me when you die, that's over. Your life is finally, you're done with this fucking bullshit. You know, it's a hard thing. We're in school and we're doing a lot of work and then you're done. But while you're here, you're supposed to be doing work and you should be facing shit. And those moments in life, there's been times where some of my friends

have called me and been like, oh my God, I'm so depressed. And I'm like, fucking finally because your life was pretty bad. The fact that you weren't depressed means that you were in denial. And now that you are depressed means you're finally facing the truth. And that's a great place to be because from there you could get to be better and you could finally be happy and you could have a much better life. So I sometimes think that's like a great time in my friend's life, you know, but other people get a little horrified by that. But it's the truth. Right.

And you're the catalyst by which a lot of people probably come to that realization. Yeah. And that's what I like to be. That is who, you know, that's a part of what I. do for people and I think we're all given different gifts in life, whether it's playing the piano, it's being the peacemaker, it's being the fighter. Like, whatever that is, that your role, a lot of times whatever it is, that's your gift, sometimes could be a bad thing, but it could also be a good thing. So you have to take that and keep doing it and take the bad with the good. I take the people that

get mad at me for the truth, but I'll just keep saying it because I do believe it actually helps a lot of people. And we're ending this. Amen. Amen. Let's end it on that, like Gandhi would say. Amen. we'll talk to you again. We'll definitely have a part three because it's very interesting and I believe that there's more there. So keep me posted. Hopefully you won't sabotage your relationship. Instead, you could become swingers and we could talk about how you could have a successful relationship with somebody and be open and swing and all that stuff. Okay. Okay. Keep me posted. Okay. Goodbye. Okay. I just want to tell you before you go that my book, it's called Strictly anonymous confession, secret sex lies of total strangers, is now available. not only in paperback and e-book, but you can pre-order the audiobook.

It's still not going to be out until August 25th, but you can pre-order it. The book is basically 17 different stories taken from my show. I kind of picked one story from each category that I talk about on my show. Like there's a hot wife story. There's a cuck queen story. There's a cuck story. There's a gang-bang girl story. Like I said, 17 stories.

And they're all told in the third. third person and they're all true. I took the interview and rewrote it in the third person and I wouldn't really call it like a total erotica book. Think like penthouse letters. It's more direct. It's not so over the top like erotica. I don't really like that kind of vibe, right? But these are true stories. 17 of them. They're really short chapters, easy read. You could read, you know, one or two and then skip around. You could read the whole book. It's available in ebackform. format, paperback format, and finally, the audio book is available coming out August 25th, but you could pre-order it now. And if you buy my book in any format or pre-order it, I will

throw in a complimentary link to my Discord. My Discord does not disappoint, okay? There's no way you get into my Discord any other way than getting the link from me. Okay, I give it to people who buy my book. There's tons of people in there. Everybody shares content with each other, and that's what you get to do there. You can post your own pictures and videos. There's tons of channels. We have lots of contests where you can win a lot of money. It's a super fun place to be.

It's a total strictly anonymous community and you will love it. I will be giving anyone who buys my book access to my Discord. It's private, like I said. All you got to do is email me a screenshot of your purchase, whether you did the audiobook, the ebook or the paperback. Send it to me at Strictly Anonymous Podcast. at gmail.com. That's strictly anonymous podcast at gmail.com. And I will send you the link to Discord. So anyway, thanks so much for tuning in. This is the strictly anonymous podcast.

Do you have a story, lifestyle, or situation you can't talk about to anyone, to anyone? Or do you just want to let your freak flag fly and be on the show? Well, Strictly Anonymous wants to To hear from you, send us an email, Strictly Anonymous Podcast at gmail.com with your story and your anonymous name. And remember, everything is strictly anonymous. Strictly anonymous.